TEDIndia 2009
Vilayanur Ramachandran: The neurons that shaped civilization
VS Ramachandran: Les neurones que-y dieron forma a la civilización
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El neurocientíficu Vilayanur Ramachandran destaca les fascinantes funciones de les neurones espexu. Recientemente descubiertes, estes neurones permítennos aprender comportamientos sociales complexos,
Vilayanur Ramachandran - Brain expert
Neurologist V.S. Ramachandran looks deep into the brain’s most basic mechanisms. By working with those who have very specific mental disabilities caused by brain injury or stroke, he can map functions of the mind to physical structures of the brain. Full bio
Neurologist V.S. Ramachandran looks deep into the brain’s most basic mechanisms. By working with those who have very specific mental disabilities caused by brain injury or stroke, he can map functions of the mind to physical structures of the brain. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
I'd like to talk to you today about the human brain,
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Güei quedría falaros del celebru humanu,
00:18
which is what we do research on at the University of California.
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que ye lo que investigamos na Universidá de California.
00:20
Just think about this problem for a second.
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Pensái n'esti problema un segundu.
00:22
Here is a lump of flesh, about three pounds,
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Equí hai un bultu de carne, de kilu y mediu,
00:25
which you can hold in the palm of your hand.
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que pués sostener na palma de la mano.
00:27
But it can contemplate the vastness of interstellar space.
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Pero pué contemplar la inmensidá del espaciu interestelar.
00:31
It can contemplate the meaning of infinity,
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Pué contemplar el significáu d' infinitú.
00:33
ask questions about the meaning of its own existence,
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entrugar preguntes sobre'l significáu de la so propia esistencia,
00:36
about the nature of God.
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de la naturaleza de Dios.
00:38
And this is truly the most amazing thing in the world.
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Y esto ye verdaderamente la cosa más apasionante nel mundu.
00:40
It's the greatest mystery confronting human beings:
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Ye'l mayor misteriu de los seres humanos.
00:43
How does this all come about?
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D'ú vien tó esto?
00:45
Well, the brain, as you know, is made up of neurons.
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Bono, el celebru, como sabe, ta fechu de neurones.
00:47
We're looking at neurons here.
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Equí tamos viendo neurones.
00:49
There are 100 billion neurons in the adult human brain.
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Hai 100 billones de neurones nel celebru d'un home adultu.
00:52
And each neuron makes something like 1,000 to 10,000 contacts
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Y cada neurona fái ente 1000 y 10000 contautos
00:55
with other neurons in the brain.
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con otres neurones del celebru.
00:57
And based on this, people have calculated
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Y basáu n'esto, xente calculara
00:59
that the number of permutations and combinations of brain activity
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qu'el númberu de permutaciones y combinaciones de l'actividá celebral
01:02
exceeds the number of elementary particles in the universe.
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supera'l númberu de partícules elementales nel universu.
01:05
So, how do you go about studying the brain?
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Asina que, ¿cómo estudies el celebru?
01:07
One approach is to look at patients who had lesions
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Una posibilidá ye mirar a pacientes que tuvieran lesiones
01:09
in different part of the brain, and study changes in their behavior.
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en diferentes partes del celebru, y estudiar cambios na so conducta.
01:12
This is what I spoke about in the last TED.
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D'eso falé na última TED.
01:14
Today I'll talk about a different approach,
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Güei voy falar d'un otru abordaxe
01:16
which is to put electrodes in different parts of the brain,
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que ye poner electrodos en diferentes partes del celebru,
01:18
and actually record the activity of individual nerve cells in the brain.
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y grabar l'actividá real de céllules individuales nel celebru.
01:22
Sort of eavesdrop on the activity of nerve cells in the brain.
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Ye como espiar l'actividá des célules nervioses.
01:26
Now, one recent discovery that has been made
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Y un descubrimientu reciente fechu
01:29
by researchers in Italy, in Parma,
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por investigaores n'Italia, en Parma,
01:31
by Giacomo Rizzolatti and his colleagues,
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por Giacomo Rizzolatti y los sos collacios,
01:34
is a group of neurons called mirror neurons,
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ye un grupu de neurones llamáu neurones espexu,
01:36
which are on the front of the brain in the frontal lobes.
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que tan alantre nel celebru, nos llóbulos frontales.
01:39
Now, it turns out there are neurons
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Y xurde qu'hai neurones
01:41
which are called ordinary motor command neurons in the front of the brain,
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que se llamen neurones d'órdenes motores ordinarias na parte anterior del celebru,
01:44
which have been known for over 50 years.
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que se conocieran dende más de 50 años.
01:46
These neurons will fire when a person performs a specific action.
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Estes neurones dispáranse cuando una persona fái una acción específica.
01:49
For example, if I do that, and reach and grab an apple,
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Por exemplu, si yo faigo esto, y alcanzo y coyo una manzana,
01:52
a motor command neuron in the front of my brain will fire.
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una orden motora na parte anterior del mio celebru se disparará.
01:56
If I reach out and pull an object, another neuron will fire,
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Si alcanzo y emburrio un oxetu, otra neurona se disparará,
01:59
commanding me to pull that object.
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ordenándome emburriálu.
02:01
These are called motor command neurons that have been known for a long time.
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Estes llámanse neurones d'ordenes motores, y conócense dende fái tiempu.
02:03
But what Rizzolatti found was
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Pero lo que Rizzolatti atopó foi
02:05
a subset of these neurons,
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un grupu d'estes neurones,
02:07
maybe about 20 percent of them, will also fire
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como'l 20 por cientu d'elles, que también se disparará
02:09
when I'm looking at somebody else performing the same action.
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cuando veo a daquién facer la mesma acción.
02:12
So, here is a neuron that fires when I reach and grab something,
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Asina, equí tá una neurona que se dispara cuando alcanzo y coyo daqué,
02:15
but it also fires when I watch Joe reaching and grabbing something.
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pero que también se dispara cuando veo a Joe alcanzar y coyelo.
02:18
And this is truly astonishing.
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Y ye braeramente esmechante.
02:20
Because it's as though this neuron is adopting
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Porque ye como si esta neurona adoptara
02:22
the other person's point of view.
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el puntu de vista del otru.
02:24
It's almost as though it's performing a virtual reality simulation
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Ye casi como si tuviera n'una simulación de realidá virtual
02:28
of the other person's action.
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de l'aición de la otra persona.
02:30
Now, what is the significance of these mirror neurons?
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Pero, cuál ye'l significáu d'estes neurones espexu?
02:33
For one thing they must be involved in things like imitation and emulation.
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Por un lláu, tienen que tar involucraes en procesos como la imitación ya emulación.
02:36
Because to imitate a complex act
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Porque imitar un actu complexu
02:39
requires my brain to adopt the other person's point of view.
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requiér qu'el mio celebru adopte'l puntu de vista de la otra persona.
02:42
So, this is important for imitation and emulation.
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Asín, esto ye lo importante d'imitar y emular.
02:44
Well, why is that important?
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¿Y por qué ye importante?
02:46
Well, let's take a look at the next slide.
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Bono, miremos a esta diapositiva.
02:49
So, how do you do imitation? Why is imitation important?
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¿Cómo faes pa imitar? ¿Por qué ye importante?
02:52
Mirror neurons and imitation, emulation.
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Neurones espexu ya imitación, emulación.
02:54
Now, let's look at culture, the phenomenon of human culture.
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Miremos agora a la cultura, al fenómenu de la cultura humana.
02:58
If you go back in time about [75,000] to 100,000 years ago,
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Si vas p'atrás nel tiempu, entre 75 y 100 mil años,
03:02
let's look at human evolution, it turns out
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miremos a la evolución humana, xurde
03:04
that something very important happened around 75,000 years ago.
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qu'algo perimportante pasó fái 75.000 años.
03:07
And that is, there is a sudden emergence and rapid spread
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Ye un xurdimientu súbitu y una diseminación rápida
03:09
of a number of skills that are unique to human beings
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d'una serie d'habilidaes úniques pa'l ser humanu
03:12
like tool use,
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como usar les ferramientes,
03:14
the use of fire, the use of shelters, and, of course, language,
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el usu'l fueu, d'abellugos, y, per supuestu, llenguaxe,
03:17
and the ability to read somebody else's mind
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y l'habilidá de lleer la mente d'otru
03:19
and interpret that person's behavior.
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y d'interpretar la so conducta.
03:21
All of that happened relatively quickly.
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Y too eso pasó relativamente rápido.
03:23
Even though the human brain had achieved its present size
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Incluso aunque'l celebru humanu había alcanzáu el so tamañu
03:26
almost three or four hundred thousand years ago,
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facía tres o cuatrocientos mil años entá,
03:28
100,000 years ago all of this happened very, very quickly.
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fái cien mil años too esto pasó perrápido.
03:30
And I claim that what happened was
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Y pueo dicir que lo que paso foi
03:33
the sudden emergence of a sophisticated mirror neuron system,
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el xurdimientu súbitu d'un sofisticáu sistema de neurones espexu,
03:36
which allowed you to emulate and imitate other people's actions.
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que te permitía emular ya imitar les aiciones d'otres persones.
03:38
So that when there was a sudden accidental discovery
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Asina que cuando hubiera un descubrimientu accidental súbitu
03:42
by one member of the group, say the use of fire,
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por un miembru'l grupu, por exemplu, l'usu'l fueu,
03:45
or a particular type of tool, instead of dying out,
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o d'un tipu particular de ferramienta, en vez de morrer,
03:47
this spread rapidly, horizontally across the population,
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esto se extendería rápido, horizontalmente per la población,
03:50
or was transmitted vertically, down the generations.
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o verticalmente, tres les xeneraciones.
03:53
So, this made evolution suddenly Lamarckian,
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Asina, esto fizo que la evolución fora lamarckiana,
03:55
instead of Darwinian.
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non darwiniana.
03:57
Darwinian evolution is slow; it takes hundreds of thousands of years.
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L'evolución darwiniana ye llenta, echa cientos de miles d'años.
04:00
A polar bear, to evolve a coat,
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Un osu polar, pa desarrollar pelaxe,
04:02
will take thousands of generations, maybe 100,000 years.
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echará cientos de xeneraciones, quizá cien mil años.
04:05
A human being, a child, can just watch its parent
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Un ser humanu, un guah.e, pué simplemente ver al so pá
04:08
kill another polar bear,
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matar a otru osu polar,
04:11
and skin it and put the skin on its body, fur on the body,
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despeyeyalu y ponése la piel nel so cuerpu
04:14
and learn it in one step. What the polar bear
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y aprendelo n'un pasu. Lo que al osu polar
04:16
took 100,000 years to learn,
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llevó-y cien mil años aprender,
04:18
it can learn in five minutes, maybe 10 minutes.
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pué ser aprendío en cinco, igual diez minutos.
04:21
And then once it's learned this it spreads
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Y una vez que foi aprendío, s'extiende
04:23
in geometric proportion across a population.
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en proporción xeometrica por toa la población.
04:26
This is the basis. The imitation of complex skills
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Esta ye la base. Imitar habilidaes complexes
04:29
is what we call culture and is the basis of civilization.
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ye lo que llamamos cultura y ye la base de la civilización.
04:32
Now there is another kind of mirror neuron,
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Pero hay otru tipu de neurones espexu,
04:34
which is involved in something quite different.
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que se dedica a daqué diferente.
04:36
And that is, there are mirror neurons,
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Y ye qu'hai neurones espexu,
04:38
just as there are mirror neurons for action, there are mirror neurons for touch.
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igual qu'hai neurones espexu pa les acciones, les hay pa'l tautu.
04:41
In other words, if somebody touches me,
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N'otres pallabres, si daquién me toca,
04:43
my hand, neuron in the somatosensory cortex
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la mio mano, una neurona n'el córtex sensorial
04:45
in the sensory region of the brain fires.
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na rexón sensorial del cerebru dispara.
04:47
But the same neuron, in some cases, will fire
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Pero la mesma neurona, n'algunos casos disparará
04:50
when I simply watch another person being touched.
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cuando veo a otra persona ser tocada.
04:52
So, it's empathizing the other person being touched.
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Asina, tá empatizando a la otra persona siendo tocada.
04:55
So, most of them will fire when I'm touched
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Y asína, munches d'elles s'activarán cuando me toquen
04:57
in different locations. Different neurons for different locations.
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en diferentes sitios. Diferentes neurones pa diferentes sitios.
05:00
But a subset of them will fire even when I watch somebody else
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Pero un subgrupu d'elles s'activará incluso cuando veo a daquién
05:02
being touched in the same location.
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ser tocáu n'esi sitiu.
05:04
So, here again you have neurons
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Otra vez tenemos neurones
05:06
which are enrolled in empathy.
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dedicaes a l'empatía.
05:08
Now, the question then arises: If I simply watch another person being touched,
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Y la pregunta xurde: si yo simplemente veo a otra persona ser tocada,
05:11
why do I not get confused and literally feel that touch sensation
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¿por qué nun me confundo y lliteramlente siento esa sensación
05:15
merely by watching somebody being touched?
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simplemente viendo a esa persona siendo tocada?
05:17
I mean, I empathize with that person but I don't literally feel the touch.
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Quiero dicir, empatizo con esa persona pero nun siento el toque.
05:21
Well, that's because you've got receptors in your skin,
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Bueno, eso ye porque tienes receptores na to piel,
05:23
touch and pain receptors, going back into your brain
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receptores del tautu y del dolor, que conectan col celebru
05:25
and saying "Don't worry, you're not being touched.
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y y-dicen "Tranquilu, nun te tan tocando.
05:28
So, empathize, by all means, with the other person,
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Asina qu'empatiza, por toos los medios, con la otra persona,
05:31
but do not actually experience the touch,
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pero nun sientas el toque
05:33
otherwise you'll get confused and muddled."
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porque si non confundiráste."
05:35
Okay, so there is a feedback signal
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Vale, entós hay una señal de retroalimentación
05:37
that vetoes the signal of the mirror neuron
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que veta la señal de la neurona espexu
05:39
preventing you from consciously experiencing that touch.
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pa que nun pueas sentir conscientemente esi toque.
05:42
But if you remove the arm, you simply anesthetize my arm,
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Pero si quites el brazu, simplemente lu anestesies,
05:45
so you put an injection into my arm,
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ye decir, pónesme una inyeición,
05:47
anesthetize the brachial plexus, so the arm is numb,
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anestesies el plexu braquial, así qu'el brazu ta insensible,
05:49
and there is no sensations coming in,
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y nun capta sensaciones,
05:51
if I now watch you being touched,
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si agora te veo siendo tocáu,
05:53
I literally feel it in my hand.
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siéntolo literalmente na mio mano.
05:55
In other words, you have dissolved the barrier
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N'otres pallabres, acabes de tirar el muru
05:57
between you and other human beings.
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entre ti y otros seres humanos.
05:59
So, I call them Gandhi neurons, or empathy neurons.
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Asina que les llamo neurones Gandhi, o neurones empátiques.
06:02
(Laughter)
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(Rises)
06:03
And this is not in some abstract metaphorical sense.
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Y esto nun ye n'un sentíu metafóricu y abstractu,
06:06
All that's separating you from him,
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too lo que te separa d'el
06:08
from the other person, is your skin.
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de l'otra persona, ye la to piel.
06:10
Remove the skin, you experience that person's touch in your mind.
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Quita la piel, y esperimentarás el toque a la otra persona na to mente.
06:14
You've dissolved the barrier between you and other human beings.
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Acabes de tirar el muru entre ti y otros seres humanos.
06:17
And this, of course, is the basis of much of Eastern philosophy,
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Y esto ye, por supuestu, la base de muncha de la filosofía oriental,
06:19
and that is there is no real independent self,
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y de que nun hay un yo independiente,
06:22
aloof from other human beings, inspecting the world,
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aislláu d'otros seres humanos, inspeccionando'l mundiu,
06:24
inspecting other people.
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inspeccionando a otres persones.
06:26
You are, in fact, connected not just via Facebook and Internet,
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Tú tas conectáu, non solamente por el Facebook ya Internet,
06:29
you're actually quite literally connected by your neurons.
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tas lliteralmente conectáu por les tos neurones.
06:32
And there is whole chains of neurons around this room, talking to each other.
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Y hái cadenes enteres de neurones en esti cuartu, falando con otres.
06:35
And there is no real distinctiveness
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Y nun hái distinción
06:37
of your consciousness from somebody else's consciousness.
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entre la to conciencia y la d'otra persona.
06:39
And this is not mumbo-jumbo philosophy.
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Y esto nun ye ningún cuentu filosóficu.
06:41
It emerges from our understanding of basic neuroscience.
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Xurde del nuestru conocimientu de la neurociencia.
06:44
So, you have a patient with a phantom limb. If the arm has been removed
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Y si tienes un paciente con miembru fantasma. Si-y quitaron el brazu
06:47
and you have a phantom, and you watch somebody else
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y tienes un "fantasma", y ves a daquién
06:49
being touched, you feel it in your phantom.
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ser tocáu, percíbeslo nel to "fantasma".
06:51
Now the astonishing thing is,
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Y lo impresionante ye,
06:53
if you have pain in your phantom limb, you squeeze the other person's hand,
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que si tienes dolor nel to miembru fantasma ya aprietes la mano'l otru,
06:56
massage the other person's hand,
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masaxes la so manu,
06:58
that relieves the pain in your phantom hand,
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quítate'l dolor nel to miembru fantasma,
07:00
almost as though the neuron
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casi como si la neurona
07:02
were obtaining relief from merely
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tuviera calmando'l dolor simplemente
07:04
watching somebody else being massaged.
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viendo a daquién más ser masaxeáu.
07:06
So, here you have my last slide.
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Y equí ta la mio última diapositiva.
07:09
For the longest time people have regarded science
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Durante munchu tiempu la xente ha visto la ciencia
07:11
and humanities as being distinct.
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y les humanidaes como coses diferentes.
07:13
C.P. Snow spoke of the two cultures:
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C.P. Snow faló de dos cultures:
07:16
science on the one hand, humanities on the other;
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ciencia n'un lau, humanidaes nel otru;
07:18
never the twain shall meet.
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nunca se deberán alcontrar.
07:20
So, I'm saying the mirror neuron system underlies the interface
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Y toi diciendo qu'el sistema de neurones espexu tá baxo l'interfaz,
07:22
allowing you to rethink about issues like consciousness,
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dexándote repensar coses como la conciencia,
07:25
representation of self,
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la representación del yo,
07:27
what separates you from other human beings,
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lo que te separa d'otros seres humanos,
07:29
what allows you to empathize with other human beings,
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lo que te dexa empatizar con otros seres humanos,
07:31
and also even things like the emergence of culture and civilization,
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incluso coses como'l xurdimientu de la cultura y la civilización,
07:34
which is unique to human beings. Thank you.
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úniques pa los seres humanos. Gracies.
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Vilayanur Ramachandran - Brain expertNeurologist V.S. Ramachandran looks deep into the brain’s most basic mechanisms. By working with those who have very specific mental disabilities caused by brain injury or stroke, he can map functions of the mind to physical structures of the brain.
Why you should listen
V.S. Ramachandran is a mesmerizing speaker, able to concretely and simply describe the most complicated inner workings of the brain. His investigations into phantom limb pain, synesthesia and other brain disorders allow him to explore (and begin to answer) the most basic philosophical questions about the nature of self and human consciousness.
Ramachandran is the director of the Center for Brain and Cognition at the University of California, San Diego, and an adjunct professor at the Salk Institute. He is the author of Phantoms in the Brain (the basis for a Nova special), A Brief Tour of Human Consciousness and The Man with the Phantom Twin: Adventures in the Neuroscience of the Human Brain.
Vilayanur Ramachandran | Speaker | TED.com