ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Gretchen Carlson - TV journalist, women's empowerment advocate
Gretchen Carlson is a tireless advocate for workplace equality and women's empowerment.

Why you should listen

Named one of TIME's 100 Most Influential People in the World for 2017, Gretchen Carlson is one of the nation's most highly acclaimed journalists and a warrior for women. In 2016, Carlson became the face of sexual harassment in the workplace after her lawsuit against Fox News Chairman and CEO Roger Ailes paved the way for thousands of other women facing harassment to tell their stories. Carlson's advocacy put her on the cover of TIME, and her new book, Be Fierce: Stop Harassment and Take Your Power Back, joined the New York Times best-seller list the week it was published. She became a columnist for TIME's online "Motto" newsletter in 2017, focusing on gender and empowerment issues.

Carlson's ongoing work on behalf of women includes advocating for arbitration reform on Capitol Hill; in 2018, she plans to testify before Congress about workplace inequality and forced arbitration clauses in employment contracts. Carlson also created the Gift of Courage Fund and the Gretchen Carlson Leadership Initiative to support empowerment, advocacy and anti-harassment programs for girls and underserved women.

Carlson hosted "The Real Story" on Fox News for three years; co-hosted "Fox and Friends" for seven years; and in her first book, Getting Real, became a national best-seller. She co-hosted "The Saturday Early Show" for CBS in 2000 and served as a CBS News correspondent covering stories including Geneoa's G-8 Summit, Timothy McVeigh’s execution, 9/11 from the World Trade Center and the Bush-Gore election. She started her reporting career in Richmond, Virginia, then served as an anchor and reporter in Cincinnati, Cleveland and Dallas, where she produced and reported a 30-part series on domestic violence that won several national awards.

An honors graduate of Stanford University, Carlson was valedictorian of her high school class and studied at Oxford University in England. A child prodigy on the violin, she performed as a soloist with the Minnesota Symphony Orchestra at age 13, and in 1989, became the first classical violinist to win the Miss America crown.

Ever grateful for the opportunities provided to her and imbued with a "never give up" attitude, Carlson has mentored dozens of young women throughout her career. She serves as a national trustee for the March of Dimes, a member of the board of directors for the Catherine Violet Hubbard Animal Sanctuary in Newtown, Connecticut and a trustee of Greenwich Academy, an all-girls preparatory day school in Greenwich, Connecticut. Carlson is married to sports agent Casey Close and mom to their two children.

More profile about the speaker
Gretchen Carlson | Speaker | TED.com
Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir - Gospel ensemble
Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir of Harlem is an influential source of education and self-development for young people.

Why you should listen

Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir of Harlem is a celebrated group of performers elevated from the Mama Foundation for the Arts' Music School of Gospel, Jazz and R&B. The Foundation, founded by the writer/producer of Mama, I Want to Sing!, is a highly respected and influential source of education and self-development for young people. The award-winning, nationally recognized program offers performance choirs small, medium, and large and has been seen accompanying many of today's pop icons including Ariana Grande, Chance the Rapper, Pharrell Williams, Alessia Cara and Madonna.

In addition to various performances and collaborations throughout New York City, the choir enjoys weekly performances in Harlem. They can be seen every Sunday headlining Ginny Supper Club's Gospel Brunch at Marcus Samuelson's acclaimed restaurant, Red Rooster, which is ranked one of the top five gospel brunches in the nation. The choir will begin Saturday performances in The Harlem Gospel Concert Series beginning April 15th at The Dempsey Theater in Harlem.

More profile about the speaker
Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir | Speaker | TED.com
David Brooks - Op-ed columnist
Writer and thinker David Brooks has covered business, crime and politics over a long career in journalism.

Why you should listen

David Brooks became an Op-Ed columnist for The New York Times in September 2003. He is currently a commentator on "The PBS Newshour," NPR’s "All Things Considered" and NBC's "Meet the Press."

He is the author of Bobos in Paradise and The Social Animal. In April 2015, he released with his fourth book, The Road to Character, which was a #1 New York Times bestseller.

Brooks also teaches at Yale University, and is a member of the American Academy of Arts & Sciences.

Born on August 11, 1961 in Toronto, Canada, Brooks graduated a bachelor of history from the University of Chicago in 1983. He became a police reporter for the City News Bureau, a wire service owned jointly by the Chicago Tribune and Sun-Times.

He worked at The Washington Times and then The Wall Street Journal for nine years. His last post at the Journal was as Op-ed Editor. Prior to that, he was posted in Brussels, covering Russia, the Middle East, South Africa and European affairs. His first post at the Journal was as editor of the book review section, and he filled in as the Journal's movie critic.

He also served as a senior editor at The Weekly Standard for 9 years, as well as contributing editor for The Atlantic and Newsweek.

More profile about the speaker
David Brooks | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.

Why you should listen

Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.

Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.

Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.

Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.

This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.

He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.

In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.

Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.

More profile about the speaker
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com
TED Dialogues

Gretchen Carlson, David Brooks: Political common ground in a polarized United States

Filmed:
1,044,128 views

How can we bridge the gap between left and right to have a wiser, more connected political conversation? Journalist Gretchen Carlson and op-ed columnist David Brooks share insights on the tensions at the heart of American politics today -- and where we can find common ground. Followed by a rousing performance of "America the Beautiful" by Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir of Harlem.
- TV journalist, women's empowerment advocate
Gretchen Carlson is a tireless advocate for workplace equality and women's empowerment. Full bio - Gospel ensemble
Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir of Harlem is an influential source of education and self-development for young people. Full bio - Op-ed columnist
Writer and thinker David Brooks has covered business, crime and politics over a long career in journalism. Full bio - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
Chris Anderson: Welcome
to this next edition of TED Dialogues.
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We're trying to do
some bridging here today.
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You know, the American dream
has inspired millions of people
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around the world for many years.
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Today, I think, you can say
that America is divided,
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perhaps more than ever,
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and the divisions seem
to be getting worse.
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It's actually really hard
for people on different sides
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to even have a conversation.
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People almost feel...
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disgusted with each other.
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Some families can't even speak
to each other right now.
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Our purpose in this dialogue today
is to try to do something about that,
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to try to have a different kind
of conversation,
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to do some listening, some thinking,
some understanding.
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And I have two people with us
to help us do that.
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They're not going to come at this
hammer and tong against each other.
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This is not like cable news.
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This is two people who have both spent
a lot of their working life
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in the political center
or right of the center.
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They've immersed themselves
in conservative worldviews, if you like.
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They know that space very well.
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And we're going to explore together
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how to think about
what is happening right now,
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and whether we can find new ways to bridge
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and just to have wiser,
more connected conversations.
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With me, first of all, Gretchen Carlson,
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who has spent a decade
working at Fox News,
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hosting "Fox and Friends"
and then "The Real Story,"
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before taking a courageous stance
in filing sexual harassment claims
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against Roger Ailes,
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which eventually led
to his departure from Fox News.
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David Brooks, who has earned the wrath
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of many of [The New York Times's]
left-leaning readers
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because of his conservative views,
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and more recently, perhaps,
some of the right-leaning readers
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because of his criticism
of some aspects of Trump.
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Yet, his columns are usually
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the top one, two or three
most-read content of the day
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because they're brilliant,
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because they bring psychology
and social science
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to providing understanding
for what's going on.
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So without further ado, a huge welcome
to Gretchen and David.
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Come and join me.
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(Applause)
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So, Gretchen.
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Sixty-three million Americans
voted for Donald Trump.
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Why did they do this?
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Gretchen Carlson: There are a lot
of reasons, in my mind, why it happened.
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I mean, I think it was a movement
of sorts, but it started long ago.
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It didn't just happen overnight.
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"Anger" would be the first word
that I would think of --
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anger with nothing
being done in Washington,
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anger about not being heard.
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I think there was a huge swath
of the population
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that feels like Washington
never listens to them,
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you know, a good part of the middle
of America, not just the coasts,
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and he was somebody they felt
was listening to their concerns.
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So I think those two issues
would be the main reason.
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I have to throw in there also celebrity.
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I think that had a huge impact
on Donald Trump becoming president.
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CA: Was the anger justified?
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David Brooks: Yeah, I think so.
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In 2015 and early 2016,
I wrote about 30 columns
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with the following theme:
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don't worry, Donald Trump will never
be the Republican nominee.
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(Laughter)
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And having done that
and gotten that so wrong,
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I decided to spend the ensuing year
just out in Trumpworld,
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and I found a lot of economic dislocation.
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I ran into a woman in West Virginia
who was going to a funeral for her mom.
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She said, "The nice thing about
being Catholic is we don't have to speak,
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and that's good,
because we're not word people."
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That phrase rung in my head: word people.
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A lot of us in the TED community
are word people,
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but if you're not, the economy
has not been angled toward you,
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and so 11 million men, for example,
are out of the labor force
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because those jobs are done away.
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A lot of social injury.
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You used to be able to say,
"I'm not the richest person in the world,
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I'm not the most famous,
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but my neighbors can count on me
and I get some dignity out of that."
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And because of celebritification
or whatever, if you're not rich or famous,
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you feel invisible.
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And a lot of moral injury,
sense of feeling betrayed,
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and frankly, in this country,
we almost have one success story,
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which is you go to college, get
a white-collar job, and you're a success,
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and if you don't fit in that formula,
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you feel like you're not respected.
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And so that accumulation of things --
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and when I talked to Trump
voters and still do,
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I found most of them completely
realistic about his failings,
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but they said, this is my shot.
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GC: And yet I predicted
that he would be the nominee,
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because I've known him for 27 years.
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He's a master marketer,
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and one of the things
he did extremely well
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that President Obama also did
extremely well,
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was simplifying the message,
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simplifying down to phrases
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and to a populist message.
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Even if he can't achieve it,
it sounded good.
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And many people latched on
to that simplicity again.
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It's something they could grasp onto:
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"I get that. I want that.
That sounds fantastic."
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And I remember when he used to come
on my show originally,
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before "The Apprentice"
was even "The Apprentice,"
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and he'd say it was the number
one show on TV.
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I'd say back to him, "No, it's not."
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And he would say, "Yes it is, Gretchen."
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And I would say, "No it's not."
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But people at home would see that,
and they'd be like,
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"Wow, I should be watching
the number one show on TV."
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And -- lo and behold -- it became
the number one show on TV.
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So he had this, I've seen
this ability in him
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to be the master marketer.
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CA: It's puzzling
to a lot of people on the left
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that so many women voted for him,
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despite some of his comments.
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GC: I wrote a column
about this for Time Motto,
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saying that I really believe
that lot of people put on blinders,
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and maybe for the first time,
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some people decided
that policies they believed in
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and being heard
and not being invisible anymore
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was more important to them
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than the way in which he had acted
or acts as a human.
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And so human dignity --
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whether it would be the dust-up
about the disabled reporter,
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or what happened
in that audiotape with Billy Bush
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and the way in which he spoke
about women --
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they put that aside
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and pretended as if
they hadn't seen that or heard that,
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because to them,
policies were more important.
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CA: Right, so just because
someone voted for Trump,
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it's not blind adherence to everything
that he's said or stood for.
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GC: No. I heard a lot of people
that would say to me,
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"Wow, I just wish he would shut up
before the election.
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If he would just stay quiet,
he'd get elected."
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CA: And so, maybe for people on the left
there's a trap there,
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to sort of despise
or just be baffled by the support,
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assuming that it's for some
of the unattractive features.
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Actually, maybe they're supporting
him despite those,
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because they see something exciting.
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They see a man of action.
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They see the choking hold of government
being thrown off in some way
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and they're excited by that.
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GC: But don't forget we saw that
on the left as well -- Bernie Sanders.
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So this is one of the commonalities
that I think we can talk about today,
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"The Year of the Outsider,"
David -- right?
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And even though Bernie Sanders
has been in Congress for a long time,
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he was deemed an outsider this time.
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And so there was anger
on the left as well,
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and so many people were in favor
of Bernie Sanders.
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So I see it as a commonality.
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People who like Trump,
people who like Bernie Sanders,
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they were liking different policies,
but the underpinning was anger.
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CA: David, there's often
this narrative, then,
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that the sole explanation
for Trump's victory and his rise
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is his tapping into anger
in a very visceral way.
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But you've written a bit about
that it's actually more than that,
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that there's a worldview
that's being worked on here.
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Could you talk about that?
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DB: I would say he understood what,
frankly, I didn't,
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which is what debate we were having.
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And so I'd grown up starting with Reagan,
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and it was the big government
versus small government debate.
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It was Barry Goldwater
versus George McGovern,
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and that was the debate
we had been having for a generation.
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It was: Democrats wanted to use
government to enhance equality,
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Republicans wanted to limit government
to enhance freedom.
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That was the debate.
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He understood what I think
the two major parties did not,
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which was that's not the debate anymore.
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The debate is now open versus closed.
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On one side are those who have
the tailwinds of globalization
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and the meritocracy blowing at their back,
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and they tend to favor open trade,
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open borders, open social mores,
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because there are so many opportunities.
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On the other side are those
who feel the headwinds of globalization
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and the meritocracy
just blasting in their faces,
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and they favor closed trade,
closed borders, closed social mores,
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because they just want some security.
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And so he was right
on that fundamental issue,
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and people were willing
to overlook a lot to get there.
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And so he felt that sense of security.
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We're speaking the morning after
Trump's joint session speech.
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There are three traditional
groups in the Republican Party.
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There are the foreign policies hawks
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who believe in America
as global policeman.
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Trump totally repudiated that view.
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Second, there was the social conservatives
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who believed in religious liberty,
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pro-life,
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prayer in schools.
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He totally ignored that.
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There was not a single mention
of a single social conservative issue.
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And then there were the fiscal hawks,
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09:56
the people who wanted to cut down
on the national debt, Tea Party,
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09:59
cut the size of government.
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He's expanding the size of government!
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Here's a man who has single-handedly
revolutionized a major American party
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because he understood
where the debate was headed
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before other people.
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And then guys like Steve Bannon come in
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10:13
and give him substance to his impulses.
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CA: And so take that a bit further,
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10:18
and maybe expand a bit more
on your insights
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into Steve Bannon's worldview.
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Because he's sometimes tarred
in very simple terms
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as this dangerous, racist,
xenophobic, anger-sparking person.
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10:33
There's more to the story;
that is perhaps an unfair simplification.
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10:37
DB: I think that part is true,
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10:39
but there's another part
that's probably true, too.
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10:41
He's part of a global movement.
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10:44
It's like being around Marxists in 1917.
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10:46
There's him here, there's the UKIP party,
there's the National Front in France,
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10:51
there's Putin, there's a Turkish version,
a Philippine version.
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10:54
So we have to recognize that this
is a global intellectual movement.
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10:57
And it believes
219
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10:58
that wisdom and virtue is not held
in individual conversation and civility
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11:04
the way a lot of us
in the enlightenment side of the world do.
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11:07
It's held in -- the German word
is the "volk" -- in the people,
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11:11
in the common, instinctive wisdom
of the plain people.
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11:14
And the essential virtue of that people
is always being threatened by outsiders.
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11:19
And he's got a strategy
for how to get there.
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11:22
He's got a series of policies
to bring the people up
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11:26
and repudiate the outsiders,
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11:28
whether those outsiders
are Islam, Mexicans, the media,
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the coastal elites...
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11:35
And there's a whole worldview there;
it's a very coherent worldview.
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11:38
I sort of have more respect for him.
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11:40
I loathe what he stands for
and I think he's wrong on the substance,
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11:44
but it's interesting to see someone
with a set of ideas
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11:46
find a vehicle, Donald Trump,
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1973
11:48
and then try to take control
of the White House
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11:51
in order to advance his viewpoint.
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11:54
CA: So it's almost become, like,
that the core question of our time now is:
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11:58
Can you be patriotic
but also have a global mindset?
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12:03
Are these two things
implacably opposed to each other?
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12:08
I mean, a lot of conservatives
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12:11
and, to the extent
that it's a different category,
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12:14
a lot of Trump supporters,
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12:15
are infuriated by the coastal elites
and the globalists
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12:19
because they see them
as, sort of, not cheering for America,
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12:23
not embracing fully American values.
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12:26
I mean, have you seen that
in your conversations with people,
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12:29
in your understanding of their mindset?
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12:31
GC: I do think that there's
a huge difference between --
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12:34
I hate to put people in categories, but,
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1982
12:36
Middle America versus
people who live on the coasts.
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12:40
It's an entirely different existence.
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2066
12:42
And I grew up in Minnesota, so I have
an understanding of Middle America,
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3666
12:46
and I've never forgotten it.
253
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1356
12:48
And maybe that's why I have
an understanding of what happened here,
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3507
12:51
because those people often feel
like nobody's listening to them,
255
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4824
12:56
and that we're only concentrating
on California and New York.
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13:00
And so I think that was a huge reason
why Trump was elected.
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4524
13:05
I mean, these people felt like
they were being heard.
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13:09
Whether or not patriotism falls into that,
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4150
13:13
I'm not sure about that.
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13:14
I do know one thing:
261
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1171
13:16
a lot of things Trump talked about
last night are not conservative things.
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4055
13:20
Had Hillary Clinton gotten up
and given that speech,
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2477
13:22
not one Republican would have
stood up to applaud.
264
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2357
13:25
I mean, he's talking about spending
a trillion dollars on infrastructure.
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3627
13:28
That is not a conservative viewpoint.
266
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1838
13:30
He talked about government-mandated
maternity leave.
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2979
13:34
A lot of women may love that;
it's not a conservative viewpoint.
268
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3018
13:37
So it's fascinating
269
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1151
13:38
that people who loved what his message
was during the campaign,
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3700
13:42
I'm not sure -- how do you
think they'll react to that?
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2602
13:44
DB: I should say I grew up
in Lower Manhattan,
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2186
13:47
in the triangle between ABC Carpets,
the Strand Bookstore
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2731
13:49
and The Odeon restaurant.
274
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1314
13:51
(Laughter)
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1631
13:52
GC: Come to Minnesota sometime!
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1854
13:54
(Laughter)
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13:55
CA: You are a card-carrying member
of the coastal elite, my man.
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14:01
But what did you make
of the speech last night?
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2252
14:03
It seemed to be a move
to a more moderate position,
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3447
14:07
on the face of it.
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1151
14:08
DB: Yeah, I thought it
was his best speech,
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2027
14:10
and it took away the freakishness of him.
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2038
14:12
I do think he's a moral freak,
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1856
14:14
and I think he'll be undone by that fact,
285
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2802
14:17
the fact that he just doesn't know
anything about anything
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2779
14:20
and is uncurious about it.
287
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1253
14:21
(Laughter)
288
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1093
14:22
But if you take away these minor flaws,
289
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2165
14:24
I think we got to see him at his best,
290
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2072
14:26
and it was revealing for me
to see him at his best,
291
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3118
14:30
because to me, it exposed a central
contradiction that he's got to confront,
292
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4517
14:34
that a lot of what he's doing
is offering security.
293
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3004
14:37
So, "I'm ordering closed borders,
294
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1798
14:39
I'm going to secure the world
for you, for my people."
295
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2863
14:42
But then if you actually look
at a lot of his economic policies,
296
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3048
14:45
like health care reform, which is about
private health care accounts,
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3781
14:49
that's not security, that's risk.
298
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2865
14:52
Educational vouchers: that's risk.
Deregulation: that's risk.
299
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3696
14:55
There's really a contradiction
between the security of the mindset
300
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3977
14:59
and a lot of the policies,
which are very risk-oriented.
301
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2784
15:02
And what I would say, especially
having spent this year,
302
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3501
15:06
the people in rural Minnesota,
in New Mexico --
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3865
15:09
they've got enough risk in their lives.
304
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2065
15:12
And so they're going to say,
"No thank you."
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3315
15:15
And I think his health care repeal
will fail for that reason.
306
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3768
15:19
CA: But despite the criticisms
you just made of him,
307
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2945
15:22
it does at least seem that he's listening
308
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4212
15:26
to a surprisingly wide range of voices;
309
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2174
15:28
it's not like everyone
is coming from the same place.
310
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2771
15:31
And maybe that leads to a certain
amount of chaos and confusion, but --
311
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5260
15:36
GC: I actually don't think he's listening
to a wide range of voices.
312
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3222
15:39
I think he's listening to very few people.
313
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2030
15:42
That's just my impression of it.
314
930000
1803
15:43
I believe that some of the things
he said last night
315
931827
2455
15:46
had Ivanka all over them.
316
934306
2023
15:48
So I believe he was listening
to her before that speech.
317
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3914
15:52
And he was Teleprompter Trump
last night, as opposed to Twitter Trump.
318
940291
4223
15:56
And that's why, before we came out here,
319
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2125
15:58
I said, "We better check Twitter
to see if anything's changed."
320
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4211
16:02
And also I think you have to keep in mind
321
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2189
16:05
that because he's such a unique character,
322
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3183
16:08
what was the bar that we
were expecting last night?
323
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2845
16:11
Was it here or here or here?
324
959211
2856
16:14
And so he comes out
and gives a looking political speech,
325
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3762
16:17
and everyone goes, "Wow! He can do it."
326
965877
3388
16:21
It just depends
on which direction he goes.
327
969289
2022
16:23
DB: Yeah, and we're trying
to build bridges here,
328
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2365
16:25
and especially for an audience
that may have contempt for Trump,
329
973724
3037
16:28
it's important to say,
no, this is a real thing.
330
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2249
16:31
But as I try my best to go an hour
showing respect for him,
331
979058
3854
16:34
my thyroid is surging,
332
982936
1991
16:36
because I think the oddities
of his character
333
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3372
16:40
really are condemnatory
and are going to doom him.
334
988347
2481
16:42
CA: Your reputation is as a conservative.
335
990852
5458
16:48
People would you describe you
as right of center,
336
996334
2374
16:50
and yet here you are
with this visceral reaction against him
337
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4233
16:54
and some of what he stands for.
338
1002989
1626
16:56
I mean, I'm -- how do you have
a conversation?
339
1004639
3627
17:00
The people who support him,
on evidence so far,
340
1008290
2929
17:03
are probably pretty excited.
341
1011243
2192
17:05
He's certainly shown real engagement
342
1013459
5158
17:10
in a lot of what he promised to do,
343
1018641
2116
17:12
and there is a strong desire
to change the system radically.
344
1020781
4101
17:16
People hate what government has become
and how it's left them out.
345
1024906
4130
17:21
GC: I totally agree with that,
346
1029060
1782
17:22
but I think that when he was proposing
a huge government program last night
347
1030866
3667
17:26
that we used to call the bad s-word,
"stimulus," I find it completely ironic.
348
1034557
4068
17:30
To spend a trillion dollars
on something --
349
1038649
2008
17:32
that is not a conservative viewpoint.
350
1040681
1775
17:34
Then again, I don't really believe
he's a Republican.
351
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2486
17:36
DB: And I would say, as someone
who identifies as conservative:
352
1044990
3021
17:40
first of all,
353
1048035
1163
17:41
to be conservative is to believe
in the limitations of politics.
354
1049222
3038
17:44
Samuel Johnson said, "Of all the things
that human hearts endure,
355
1052284
3118
17:47
how few are those that kings
can cause and cure."
356
1055426
2447
17:49
Politics is a limited realm;
357
1057897
1645
17:51
what matters most
is the moral nature of the society.
358
1059566
3037
17:54
And so I have to think
character comes first,
359
1062627
2169
17:56
and a man who doesn't pass
the character threshold
360
1064820
2373
17:59
cannot be a good president.
361
1067217
1340
18:00
Second, I'm the kind
of conservative who --
362
1068581
2665
18:03
I harken back to Alexander Hamilton,
363
1071270
2687
18:05
who was a Latino hip-hop star
from the heights --
364
1073981
2330
18:08
(Laughter)
365
1076335
4075
18:12
but his definition of America
was very future-oriented.
366
1080434
5371
18:17
He was a poor boy from the islands
367
1085829
2356
18:20
who had this rapid and amazing
rise to success,
368
1088209
4313
18:24
and he wanted government to give
poor boys and girls like him
369
1092546
2953
18:27
a chance to succeed,
370
1095523
1154
18:28
using limited but energetic government
to create social mobility.
371
1096701
3221
18:31
For him and for Lincoln
and for Teddy Roosevelt,
372
1099946
3584
18:35
the idea of America
was the idea of the future.
373
1103554
2335
18:37
We may have division and racism
and slavery in our past,
374
1105913
2891
18:40
but we have a common future.
375
1108828
1892
18:42
The definition of America that Steve
Bannon stands for is backwards-looking.
376
1110744
4198
18:46
It's nostalgic; it's for the past.
377
1114966
1947
18:48
And that is not traditionally
the American identity.
378
1116937
2480
18:51
That's traditionally, frankly,
the Russian identity.
379
1119441
2460
18:53
That's how they define virtue.
380
1121925
1482
18:55
And so I think it is a fundamental
and foundational betrayal
381
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2853
18:58
of what conservatism used to stand for.
382
1126308
1929
19:00
CA: Well, I'd like actually
like to hear from you,
383
1128261
2348
19:02
and if we see some comments coming in
from some of you, we'll --
384
1130633
3022
19:05
oh, well here's one right now.
385
1133679
1472
19:07
Jeffrey Alan Carnegie: I've tried
to convince progressive friends
386
1135175
3140
19:10
that they need to understand
what motivates Trump supporters,
387
1138339
2892
19:13
yet many of them have given up
trying to understand
388
1141255
2417
19:15
in the face of what they perceive
as lies, selfishness and hatred.
389
1143696
3144
19:18
How would you reach out to such people,
the Tea Party of the left,
390
1146864
3185
19:22
to try to bridge this divide?
391
1150073
1813
19:25
GC: I actually think
there are commonalities in anger,
392
1153078
3078
19:28
as I expressed earlier.
393
1156180
1438
19:29
So I think you can come to the table,
both being passionate about something.
394
1157642
4430
19:34
So at least you care.
395
1162096
1530
19:36
And I would like to believe --
the c-word has also become
396
1164435
3707
19:40
a horrible word -- "compromise," right?
397
1168166
2576
19:42
So you have the far left
and the far right,
398
1170766
2071
19:44
and compromise -- forget it.
399
1172861
1383
19:46
Those groups don't want
to even think about it.
400
1174268
2281
19:48
But you have a huge swath
of voters, myself included,
401
1176573
3090
19:51
who are registered independents,
402
1179687
1728
19:53
like 40 percent of us, right?
403
1181439
1968
19:55
So there is a huge faction of America
that wants to see change
404
1183431
4301
19:59
and wants to see people come together.
405
1187756
2634
20:02
It's just that we have to figure out
406
1190414
1766
20:04
how to do that.
407
1192204
1411
20:05
CA: So let's talk about that for a minute,
408
1193639
2118
20:07
because we're having these TED Dialogues,
we're trying to bridge.
409
1195781
3220
20:11
There's a lot of people out there,
right now, perhaps especially on the left,
410
1199025
3676
20:14
who think this is a terrible idea,
411
1202725
1791
20:16
that actually, the only moral response
to the great tyranny
412
1204540
5939
20:22
that may be about to emerge in America
413
1210503
4011
20:26
is to resist it at every stage,
is to fight it tooth and nail,
414
1214538
3632
20:30
it's a mistake to try and do this.
415
1218194
1881
20:32
Just fight!
416
1220099
1182
20:34
Is there a case for that?
417
1222001
2345
20:36
DB: It depends what "fight" means.
If it means literal fighting, then no.
418
1224370
3580
20:39
If it means marching, well maybe
marching to raise consciousness,
419
1227974
3124
20:43
that seems fine.
420
1231122
1265
20:44
But if you want change in this country,
we do it through parties and politics.
421
1232411
4131
20:48
We organize parties, and those parties
are big, diverse, messy coalitions,
422
1236566
4777
20:53
and we engage in politics,
423
1241367
1618
20:55
and politics is always
morally unsatisfying
424
1243009
2328
20:57
because it's always
a bunch of compromises.
425
1245361
2477
20:59
But politics is essentially
a competition between partial truths.
426
1247862
3782
21:03
The Trump people have a piece
of the truth in America.
427
1251668
2635
21:06
I think Trump himself is the wrong answer
to the right question,
428
1254327
3113
21:09
but they have some truth,
429
1257464
2011
21:11
and it's truth found in the epidemic
of opiates around the country,
430
1259499
4149
21:15
it's truth found in
the spread of loneliness,
431
1263672
2992
21:18
it's the truth found in people
whose lives are inverted.
432
1266688
2959
21:21
They peaked professionally at age 30,
433
1269671
2422
21:24
and it's all been downhill since.
434
1272117
2025
21:26
And so, understanding that
doesn't take fighting,
435
1274166
2514
21:28
it takes conversation and then asking,
436
1276704
1951
21:30
"What are we going to replace Trump with?"
437
1278679
2010
21:32
GC: But you saw fighting last night,
even at the speech,
438
1280713
2667
21:35
because you saw the Democratic women
who came and wore white
439
1283404
2868
21:38
to honor the suffragette movement.
440
1286296
1708
21:40
I remember back during the campaign
441
1288028
2027
21:42
where some Trump supporters wanted
to actually get rid of the amendment
442
1290079
3489
21:45
that allowed us to vote as women.
443
1293592
1714
21:47
It was like, what?
444
1295330
2168
21:49
So I don't know if
that's the right way to fight.
445
1297522
2326
21:51
It was interesting,
because I was looking in the audience,
446
1299872
2808
21:54
trying to see Democratic women
who didn't wear white.
447
1302704
2555
21:57
So there's a lot going on there,
448
1305283
1550
21:58
and there's a lot of ways to fight
that are not necessarily doing that.
449
1306857
6635
22:05
CA: I mean, one of the key
questions, to me, is:
450
1313516
2474
22:08
The people who voted for Trump
but, if you like, are more in the center,
451
1316014
5649
22:13
like they're possibly
amenable to persuasion --
452
1321687
3582
22:17
are they more likely to be persuaded
by seeing a passionate uprising
453
1325293
5791
22:23
of people saying, "No, no, no, you can't!"
454
1331108
3513
22:26
or will that actually piss them off
and push them away?
455
1334645
3914
22:30
DB: How are any of us persuaded?
456
1338583
1648
22:32
Am I going to persuade you by saying,
"Well, you're kind of a bigot,
457
1340255
3327
22:35
you're supporting bigotry,
you're supporting sexism.
458
1343606
2941
22:38
You're a primitive, fascistic rise
from some authoritarian past"?
459
1346571
4628
22:43
That's probably not going to be
too persuasive to you.
460
1351223
2685
22:45
And so the way any of us
are persuaded is by:
461
1353932
2641
22:48
a) some basic show of respect
for the point of view, and saying,
462
1356597
4342
22:52
"I think this guy is not going
to get you where you need to go."
463
1360963
3319
22:56
And there are two phrases
you've heard over and over again,
464
1364306
3380
22:59
wherever you go in the country.
465
1367710
1493
23:01
One, the phrase "flyover country."
466
1369227
1891
23:03
And that's been heard for years,
467
1371142
1848
23:05
but I would say this year,
I heard it almost on an hourly basis,
468
1373014
3696
23:08
a sense of feeling invisible.
469
1376734
1511
23:10
And then the sense a sense of the phrase
"political correctness."
470
1378269
3758
23:14
Just that rebellion: "They're not even
letting us say what we think."
471
1382051
4079
23:18
And I teach at Yale.
472
1386154
1325
23:19
The narrowing of debate is real.
473
1387503
4269
23:24
CA: So you would say this is a trap
that liberals have fallen into
474
1392449
3204
23:27
by celebrating causes
they really believe in,
475
1395677
3096
23:30
often expressed through the language
of "political correctness."
476
1398797
3962
23:34
They have done damage.
They have pushed people away.
477
1402783
4335
23:39
DB: I would say
a lot of the argument, though,
478
1407142
2148
23:41
with "descent to fascism,"
"authoritarianism" --
479
1409314
2361
23:43
that just feels over-the-top to people.
480
1411699
2189
23:45
And listen, I've written
eight million anti-Trump columns,
481
1413912
2783
23:48
but it is a problem, especially
for the coastal media,
482
1416719
2670
23:51
that every time he does something
slightly wrong, we go to 11,
483
1419413
4173
23:55
and we're at 11 every day.
484
1423610
2186
23:57
And it just strains
credibility at some point.
485
1425820
2840
24:00
CA: Crying wolf a little too loud
and a little too early.
486
1428684
2726
24:03
But there may be a time
when we really do have to cry wolf.
487
1431434
2867
24:06
GC: But see -- one of the most
important things to me
488
1434325
2572
24:08
is how the conservative media
handles Trump.
489
1436921
2621
24:12
Will they call him out
when things are not true,
490
1440439
4573
24:17
or will they just go along with it?
491
1445036
2183
24:19
To me, that is what is essential
in this entire discussion,
492
1447243
4029
24:23
because when you have
followers of somebody
493
1451296
4584
24:27
who don't really care
if he tells the truth or not,
494
1455904
3632
24:31
that can be very dangerous.
495
1459560
2285
24:33
So to me, it's: How is the conservative
media going to respond to it?
496
1461869
4286
24:38
I mean, you've been calling them out.
497
1466179
2494
24:40
But how will other forms
of conservative media deal with that
498
1468697
4385
24:45
as we move forward?
499
1473106
1158
24:46
DB: It's all shifted, though.
500
1474288
1396
24:47
The conservative media used to be Fox
or Charles Krauthammer or George Will.
501
1475708
3638
24:51
They're no longer the conservative media.
502
1479370
2004
24:53
Now there's another whole set
of institutions further right,
503
1481398
2831
24:56
which is Breitbart and Infowars,
Alex Jones, Laura Ingraham,
504
1484253
5597
25:01
and so they're the ones who are now
his base, not even so much Fox.
505
1489874
3801
25:05
CA: My last question for the time being
is just on this question of the truth.
506
1493699
4087
25:09
I mean, it's one of the scariest
things to people right now,
507
1497810
2879
25:12
that there is no agreement,
nationally, on what is true.
508
1500713
3683
25:16
I've never seen anything like it,
509
1504420
1790
25:18
where facts are so massively disputed.
510
1506234
3337
25:21
Your whole newspaper, sir,
is delivering fake news every day.
511
1509595
3551
25:25
DB: And failing.
512
1513170
1508
25:26
(Laughter)
513
1514702
1088
25:27
CA: And failing. My commiserations.
514
1515814
1956
25:29
But is there any path
515
1517794
6290
25:36
whereby we can start to get
some kind of consensus,
516
1524108
3810
25:39
to believe the same things?
517
1527942
2860
25:42
Can online communities play a role here?
518
1530826
3568
25:46
How do we fix this?
519
1534418
1169
25:47
GC: See, I understand how that happened.
520
1535611
2038
25:49
That's another groundswell kind of emotion
521
1537673
2199
25:51
that was going on in the middle of America
522
1539896
2015
25:53
and not being heard,
523
1541935
1233
25:55
in thinking that the mainstream
media was biased.
524
1543192
3031
25:58
There's a difference, though,
between being biased and being fake.
525
1546247
4066
26:02
To me, that is a very important
distinction in this conversation.
526
1550337
3573
26:05
So let's just say that there was some bias
in the mainstream media.
527
1553934
4498
26:10
OK. So there are ways
to try and mend that.
528
1558456
2933
26:13
But what Trump's doing
is nuclearizing that and saying,
529
1561413
4075
26:17
"Look, we're just going to call
all of that fake."
530
1565512
2538
26:20
That's where it gets dangerous.
531
1568074
1546
26:21
CA: Do you think enough of his supporters
532
1569644
2861
26:24
have a greater loyalty
to the truth than to any ...
533
1572529
4245
26:28
Like, the principle
of not supporting something
534
1576798
4639
26:33
that is demonstrably not true
535
1581461
1998
26:35
actually matters, so there will be
a correction at some point?
536
1583483
2961
26:38
DB: I think the truth
eventually comes out.
537
1586468
2290
26:40
So for example, Donald Trump
has based a lot of his economic policy
538
1588782
3156
26:43
on this supposition that Americans
have lost manufacturing jobs
539
1591962
3004
26:46
because they've been stolen
by the Chinese.
540
1594990
2042
26:49
That is maybe 13 percent
of the jobs that left.
541
1597056
2926
26:52
The truth is that 87 percent of the jobs
were replaced by technology.
542
1600006
3582
26:55
That is just the truth.
543
1603612
1778
26:57
And so as a result, when he says,
544
1605414
2662
27:00
"I'm going to close TPP
and all the jobs will come roaring back,"
545
1608100
3967
27:04
they will not come roaring back.
546
1612091
1561
27:05
So that is an actual fact, in my belief.
547
1613676
3084
27:08
And --
548
1616784
1158
27:09
(Laughter)
549
1617966
1299
27:11
GC: But I'm saying what
his supporters think is the truth,
550
1619289
2716
27:14
no matter how many times
you might say that,
551
1622029
2135
27:16
they still believe him.
552
1624188
1206
27:17
DB: But eventually either jobs
will come back or they will not come back,
553
1625418
3759
27:21
and at that point, either something
will work or it doesn't work,
554
1629201
3095
27:24
and it doesn't work or not work
because of great marketing,
555
1632320
2795
27:27
it works because it actually
addresses a real problem
556
1635139
2545
27:29
and so I happen to think
the truth will out.
557
1637708
2486
27:32
CA: If you've got a question,
please raise your hand here.
558
1640218
3943
27:36
Yael Eisenstat: I'll speak into the box.
559
1644185
2620
27:38
My name's Yael Eisenstat.
560
1646829
2994
27:41
I hear a lot of this talk
561
1649847
1611
27:43
about how we all need to start
talking to each other more
562
1651482
2679
27:46
and understanding each other more,
563
1654185
1676
27:47
and I've even written about this,
published on this subject as well,
564
1655885
3540
27:51
but now today I keep hearing liberals --
yes, I live in New York,
565
1659449
5110
27:56
I can be considered a liberal --
566
1664583
1723
27:58
we sit here and self-analyze:
567
1666330
1699
28:00
What did we do to not understand
the Rust Belt?
568
1668053
2309
28:02
Or: What can we do to understand
Middle America better?
569
1670386
2850
28:05
And what I'd like to know:
570
1673260
1448
28:06
Have you seen any attempts
or conversations from Middle America
571
1674732
3926
28:10
of what can I do to understand
the so-called coastal elites better?
572
1678682
3217
28:13
Because I'm just offended
as being put in a box as a coastal elite
573
1681923
4003
28:17
as someone in Middle America is
as being considered a flyover state
574
1685950
3224
28:21
and not listened to.
575
1689198
1477
28:22
CA: There you go, I can hear Facebook
cheering as you --
576
1690699
2743
28:25
(Laughter)
577
1693466
1100
28:26
DB: I would say -- and this is someone
who has been conservative
578
1694590
3550
28:30
all my adult life --
579
1698164
1166
28:31
when you grow up conservative,
580
1699354
1767
28:33
you learn to speak both languages.
581
1701145
1955
28:35
Because if I'm going to listen to music,
582
1703806
2404
28:38
I'm not going to listen to Ted Nugent.
583
1706234
2118
28:40
So a lot of my favorite rock bands
are all on the left.
584
1708376
4681
28:45
If I'm going to go to a school,
585
1713081
1538
28:46
I'm going probably to school
where the culture is liberal.
586
1714643
2753
28:49
If I'm going to watch a sitcom
587
1717420
1607
28:51
or a late-night comedy show,
it's going to be liberal.
588
1719051
2563
28:53
If I'm going to read a good newspaper,
it'll be the New York Times.
589
1721638
3183
28:56
As a result, you learn
to speak both languages.
590
1724845
2266
28:59
And that actually, at least
for a number of years,
591
1727135
2884
29:02
when I started at National Review
with William F. Buckley,
592
1730043
2818
29:04
it made us sharper,
593
1732885
1480
29:06
because we were used to arguing
against people every day.
594
1734389
3627
29:10
The problem now that's happened
is you have ghettoization on the right
595
1738040
3309
29:13
and you can live entirely in rightworld,
596
1741373
2361
29:15
so as a result, the quality of argument
on the right has diminished,
597
1743758
3471
29:19
because you're not in the other side
598
1747253
2543
29:21
all the time.
599
1749820
1253
29:23
But I do think if you're living
in Minnesota or Iowa or Arizona,
600
1751097
4952
29:28
the coastal elites
make themselves aware to you,
601
1756073
2335
29:30
so you know that language as well,
602
1758432
1686
29:32
but it's not the reverse.
603
1760142
1428
29:33
CA: But what does Middle America
not get about coastal elites?
604
1761594
4231
29:37
So the critique is,
605
1765849
3040
29:40
you are not dealing
with the real problems.
606
1768913
2762
29:43
There's a feeling of a snobbishness,
an elitism that is very off-putting.
607
1771699
6461
29:50
What are they missing?
608
1778184
1168
29:51
If you could plant one piece of truth
609
1779376
3503
29:54
from the mindset of someone
in this room, for example,
610
1782903
5190
30:00
what would you say to them?
611
1788117
2728
30:02
DB: Just how insanely wonderful we are.
612
1790869
1915
30:04
(Laughter)
613
1792808
1603
30:06
No, I reject the category.
614
1794435
2350
30:08
The problem with populism
is the same problem with elitism.
615
1796809
3484
30:12
It's just a prejudice on the basis
616
1800317
2298
30:14
of probably an over-generalized
social class distinction
617
1802639
2950
30:17
which is too simplistic
to apply in reality.
618
1805613
3055
30:20
Those of us in New York know
there are some people in New York
619
1808692
2942
30:23
who are completely awesome,
and some people who are pathetic,
620
1811658
2927
30:26
and if you live in Iowa, some people
are awesome and some people are pathetic.
621
1814609
3734
30:30
It's not a question
of what degree you have
622
1818367
2068
30:32
or where you happen to live
in the country.
623
1820459
2048
30:34
The distinction is just a crude
simplification to arouse political power.
624
1822531
3474
30:38
GC: But I would encourage people
to watch a television news show
625
1826029
4585
30:42
or read a column
that they normally wouldn't.
626
1830638
2669
30:46
So if you are a Trump supporter,
watch the other side for a day,
627
1834221
5026
30:51
because you need to come out of the bubble
628
1839271
2021
30:53
if you're ever going
to have a conversation.
629
1841316
2102
30:55
And both sides -- so if you're a liberal,
630
1843442
2614
30:58
then watch something
that's very conservative.
631
1846080
2831
31:00
Read a column that is not something
you would normally read,
632
1848935
3648
31:04
because then you gain perspective
of what the other side is thinking,
633
1852607
3290
31:07
and to me, that's a start
of coming together.
634
1855921
2460
31:10
I worry about the same thing
you worry about, these bubbles.
635
1858405
2841
31:13
I think if you only watch
certain entities,
636
1861270
2020
31:15
you have no idea what the rest
of the world is talking about.
637
1863314
2931
31:18
DB: I think not only watching,
638
1866269
2509
31:20
being part of an organization
that meets at least once a month
639
1868802
3014
31:23
that puts you in direct contact
with people completely unlike yourself
640
1871840
3330
31:27
is something we all have
a responsibility for.
641
1875194
2151
31:29
I may get this a little wrong,
642
1877369
1467
31:30
but I think of the top-selling
automotive models in this country,
643
1878860
3245
31:34
I think the top three or four
are all pickup trucks.
644
1882129
3322
31:37
So ask yourself: How many people
do I know who own a pickup truck?
645
1885475
3812
31:41
And it could be very few or zero
for a lot of people.
646
1889311
3429
31:44
And that's sort of a warning sign
kind of a problem.
647
1892764
2954
31:47
Where can I join a club
648
1895742
1749
31:49
where I'll have a lot in common
with a person who drives a pickup truck
649
1897515
3414
31:52
because we have a common
interest in whatever?
650
1900953
2175
31:55
CA: And so the internet is definitely
contributing to this.
651
1903152
2812
31:57
A question here from Chris Ajemian:
652
1905988
2153
32:00
"How do you feel structure
of communications,
653
1908165
2125
32:02
especially the prevalence of social
media and individualized content,
654
1910314
3730
32:06
can be used to bring together
a political divide,
655
1914068
2470
32:08
instead of just filing communities
into echo chambers?"
656
1916562
3235
32:11
I mean, it looks like Facebook
and Google, since the election,
657
1919821
4449
32:16
are working hard on this question.
658
1924294
1679
32:17
They're trying to change the algorithms
659
1925997
3818
32:21
so that they don't amplify fake news
660
1929839
3639
32:25
to the extent that it happened
last time round.
661
1933502
2406
32:27
Do you see any other
promising signs of ...?
662
1935932
2224
32:30
GC: ... or amplify one side
of the equation.
663
1938180
2103
32:32
CA: Exactly.
664
1940307
1151
32:33
GC: I think that was the constant
argument from the right,
665
1941482
4365
32:37
that social media
and the internet in general
666
1945871
2570
32:40
was putting articles towards the top
that were not their worldview.
667
1948465
3822
32:44
I think, again, that fed into the anger.
668
1952311
2942
32:47
It fed into the anger of:
669
1955277
1535
32:48
"You're pushing something
that's not what I believe."
670
1956836
2780
32:51
But social media has obviously
changed everything,
671
1959640
2420
32:54
and I think Trump is the example
of Twitter changing absolutely everything.
672
1962084
4377
32:58
And from his point of view,
673
1966485
2003
33:00
he's reaching the American people
without a filter,
674
1968512
4297
33:04
which he believes the media is.
675
1972833
2715
33:09
CA: Question from the audience.
676
1977365
2419
33:12
Destiny: Hi. I'm Destiny.
677
1980498
1825
33:14
I have a question regarding political
correctness, and I'm curious:
678
1982347
4330
33:18
When did political correctness
become synonymous with silencing,
679
1986701
4670
33:23
versus a way that we speak
about other people
680
1991395
5115
33:28
to show them respect
and preserve their dignity?
681
1996534
3139
33:31
GC: Well, I think the conservative media
really pounded this issue
682
1999697
3388
33:35
for the last 10 years.
683
2003109
1864
33:36
I think that they really, really
spent a lot of time
684
2004997
3361
33:40
talking about political correctness,
685
2008382
1806
33:42
and how people should have
the ability to say what they think.
686
2010212
3403
33:45
Another reason why Trump
became so popular:
687
2013639
2170
33:47
because he says what he thinks.
688
2015833
1878
33:49
It also makes me think about the fact
689
2017735
4632
33:55
that I do believe there are a lot
of people in America
690
2023756
3035
33:58
who agree with Steve Bannon,
691
2026815
3892
34:02
but they would never say it publicly,
692
2030731
1939
34:04
and so voting for Trump
gave them the opportunity
693
2032694
3084
34:07
to agree with it silently.
694
2035802
1604
34:10
DB: On the issue of immigration,
it's a legitimate point of view
695
2038816
4964
34:15
that we have too many immigrants
in the country,
696
2043804
2427
34:18
that it's economically costly.
697
2046255
1466
34:19
CA: That we have too many --
698
2047745
1356
34:21
DB: Immigrants in the country,
especially from Britain.
699
2049125
2609
34:23
(Laughter)
700
2051758
1174
34:24
GC: I kind of like the British accent, OK?
701
2052956
2750
34:27
CA: I apologize. America, I am sorry.
702
2055730
2347
34:30
(Laughter)
703
2058101
1655
34:31
I'll go now.
704
2059780
1717
34:33
DB: But it became
sort of impermissible to say that,
705
2061521
5924
34:39
because it was a sign that somehow
you must be a bigot of some sort.
706
2067469
3445
34:42
So the political correctness
was not only cracking down on speech
707
2070938
3951
34:46
that we would all find
completely offensive,
708
2074913
2223
34:49
it was cracking down on some speech
that was legitimate,
709
2077160
2782
34:51
and then it was turning speech
and thought into action
710
2079966
4548
34:56
and treating it as a crime,
711
2084538
2060
34:58
and people getting fired
and people thrown out of schools,
712
2086622
2920
35:01
and there were speech codes written.
713
2089566
1742
35:03
Now there are these diversity teams,
714
2091332
1794
35:05
where if you say something
that somebody finds offensive,
715
2093150
2680
35:07
like, "Smoking is really dangerous,"
you can say "You're insulting my group,"
716
2095854
3696
35:11
and the team from the administration
will come down into your dorm room
717
2099574
3538
35:15
and put thought police upon you.
718
2103136
2541
35:17
And so there has been a genuine narrowing
of what is permissible to say.
719
2105701
5189
35:22
And some of it is legitimate.
720
2110914
1868
35:24
There are certain words that there
should be some social sanction against,
721
2112806
5363
35:30
but some of it was used
to enforce a political agenda.
722
2118193
2974
35:33
CA: So is that a project
723
2121191
1213
35:34
you would urge on liberals,
if you like -- progressives --
724
2122428
2980
35:37
to rethink the ground rules
around political correctness
725
2125432
4917
35:42
and accept a little more
uncomfortable language
726
2130373
5695
35:48
in certain circumstances?
727
2136092
2834
35:50
Can you see that being solved
728
2138950
1734
35:52
to an extent that others
won't be so offended?
729
2140708
4203
35:56
DB: I mean, most American universities,
especially elite universities,
730
2144935
3324
36:00
are overwhelmingly on the left,
731
2148283
1533
36:01
and there's just an ease of temptation
732
2149840
1862
36:03
to use your overwhelming cultural power
to try to enforce some sort of thought
733
2151726
4193
36:07
that you think is right
and correct thought.
734
2155943
2289
36:10
So, be a little more self-suspicious
of, are we doing that?
735
2158256
3203
36:13
And second, my university,
the University of Chicago,
736
2161483
3476
36:16
sent out this letter saying,
we will have no safe spaces.
737
2164983
2730
36:19
There will be no critique
of micro-aggression.
738
2167737
2410
36:22
If you get your feelings hurt,
well, welcome to the world of education.
739
2170171
3461
36:25
I do think that policy --
740
2173656
1414
36:27
which is being embraced by a lot
of people on the left, by the way --
741
2175094
3334
36:30
is just a corrective to what's happened.
742
2178452
2166
36:32
CA: So here's a question
from Karen Holloway:
743
2180642
2109
36:34
How do we foster an American culture
744
2182775
2330
36:37
that's forward-looking, like Hamilton,
745
2185129
2524
36:39
that expects and deals with change,
746
2187677
2528
36:42
rather than wanting to have everything
go back to some fictional past?
747
2190229
3684
36:47
That's an easy question, right?
748
2195104
1578
36:48
GC: Well, I'm still a believer
in the American dream,
749
2196706
2591
36:51
and I think what we can teach
our children is the basics,
750
2199321
3434
36:54
which is that hard work
751
2202779
3397
36:58
and believing in yourself
752
2206200
2510
37:01
in America, you can achieve
whatever you want.
753
2209597
2220
37:03
I was told that every single day.
754
2211841
1661
37:05
When I got in the real world, I was like,
wow, that's maybe not always so true.
755
2213526
4031
37:09
But I still believe in that.
756
2217581
1671
37:11
Maybe I'm being too optimistic.
757
2219276
1573
37:12
So I still look towards the future
for that to continue.
758
2220873
3711
37:17
DB: I think you're being too optimistic.
759
2225108
2162
37:19
GC: You do?
760
2227294
1158
37:20
DB: The odds of an American young person
exceeding their parents' salary --
761
2228476
4032
37:24
a generation ago, like 86 percent did it.
762
2232532
2537
37:27
Now 51 percent do it.
763
2235093
1759
37:28
There's just been a problem
in social mobility in the country.
764
2236876
3268
37:32
CA: You've written that this entire
century has basically been a disaster,
765
2240168
4829
37:37
that the age of sunny growth is over
and we're in deep trouble.
766
2245021
5633
37:42
DB: Yeah, I mean, we averaged,
in real terms, population-adjusted,
767
2250678
4459
37:47
two or three percent growth for 50 years,
768
2255161
2120
37:49
and now we've had less
than one percent growth.
769
2257305
2544
37:51
And so there's something seeping out.
770
2259873
2499
37:54
And so if I'm going to tell people
that they should take risks,
771
2262396
4573
37:58
one of the things we're seeing
is a rapid decline in mobility,
772
2266993
3047
38:02
the number of people who are moving
across state lines,
773
2270064
3369
38:05
and that's especially true
among millennials.
774
2273457
3015
38:08
It's young people that are moving less.
775
2276496
1890
38:10
So how do we give people the security
from which they can take risk?
776
2278410
3901
38:14
And I'm a big believer in attachment
theory of raising children,
777
2282335
3582
38:17
and attachment theory
is based on the motto
778
2285941
2584
38:20
that all of life is a series
of daring adventures from a secure base.
779
2288549
4422
38:25
Have you parents given you a secure base?
780
2293579
2373
38:27
And as a society,
we do not have a secure base,
781
2295976
2373
38:30
and we won't get to that "Hamilton,"
risk-taking, energetic ethos
782
2298373
4388
38:34
until we can supply a secure base.
783
2302785
2457
38:37
CA: So I wonder whether
there's ground here
784
2305266
3399
38:40
to create almost like a shared agenda,
a bridging conversation,
785
2308689
4757
38:45
on the one hand recognizing
that there is this really deep problem
786
2313470
5346
38:50
that the system,
the economic system that we built,
787
2318840
2505
38:53
seems to be misfiring right now.
788
2321369
2920
38:57
Second, that maybe, if you're right
that it's not all about immigrants,
789
2325244
5370
39:02
it's probably more about technology,
790
2330638
1958
39:04
if you could win that argument,
791
2332620
2024
39:06
that de-emphasizes what seems to me
the single most divisive territory
792
2334668
5169
39:11
between Trump supporters and others,
which is around the role of the other.
793
2339861
4054
39:15
It's very offensive to people on the left
to have the other demonized
794
2343939
4050
39:20
to the extent that the other
seems to be demonized.
795
2348013
2705
39:22
That feels deeply immoral,
796
2350742
2578
39:25
and maybe people on the left
could agree, as you said,
797
2353344
2870
39:28
that immigration
may have happened too fast,
798
2356238
2861
39:31
and there is a limit beyond which
human societies struggle,
799
2359123
4577
39:35
but nonetheless this whole problem
becomes de-emphasized
800
2363724
4089
39:39
if automation is the key issue,
801
2367837
2135
39:41
and then we try to work together
on recognizing that it's real,
802
2369996
2954
39:44
recognizing that the problem
probably wasn't properly addressed
803
2372974
3129
39:48
or seen or heard,
804
2376127
1346
39:49
and try to figure out
how to rebuild communities
805
2377497
3309
39:52
using, well, using what?
806
2380830
2008
39:54
That seems to me to become
the fertile conversation of the future:
807
2382862
4036
39:58
How do we rebuild communities
in this modern age,
808
2386922
3120
40:02
with technology doing what it's doing,
809
2390066
2332
40:04
and reimagine this bright future?
810
2392422
2195
40:06
GC: That's why I go back to optimism.
811
2394641
2103
40:08
I'm not being ... it's not like
I'm not looking at the facts,
812
2396768
3875
40:12
where we've come or where we've come from.
813
2400667
2438
40:15
But for gosh sakes, if we don't look
at it from an optimistic point of view --
814
2403129
3987
40:19
I'm refusing to do that just yet.
815
2407140
1704
40:20
I'm not raising my 12- and 13-year-old
to say, "Look, the world is dim."
816
2408868
4214
40:25
CA; We're going to have
one more question from the room here.
817
2413106
2996
40:28
Questioner: Hi. Hello. Sorry.
818
2416126
3666
40:31
You both mentioned
the infrastructure plan and Russia
819
2419816
3504
40:35
and some other things that wouldn't be
traditional Republican priorities.
820
2423344
5365
40:40
What do you think, or when,
will Republicans be motivated
821
2428733
6569
40:47
to take a stand against Trumpism?
822
2435326
3985
40:51
GC: After last night, not for a while.
823
2439739
2923
40:54
He changed a lot last night, I believe.
824
2442686
2350
40:57
DB: His popularity among Republicans --
he's got 85 percent approval,
825
2445060
3651
41:00
which is higher than Reagan
had at this time,
826
2448735
2220
41:02
and that's because society
has just gotten more polarized.
827
2450979
2916
41:05
So people follow the party
much more than they used to.
828
2453919
2649
41:08
So if you're waiting for Paul Ryan
and the Republicans in Congress
829
2456592
3156
41:11
to flake away,
830
2459772
1159
41:12
it's going to take a little while.
831
2460955
1649
41:14
GC: But also because they're all
concerned about reelection,
832
2462628
3482
41:18
and Trump has so much power
with getting people either for you
833
2466134
3695
41:21
or against you,
834
2469853
1441
41:23
and so, they're vacillating
every day, probably:
835
2471318
2338
41:25
"Well, should I go against
or should I not?"
836
2473680
2116
41:27
But last night, where he finally
sounded presidential,
837
2475820
3499
41:31
I think most Republicans are breathing
a sigh of relief today.
838
2479343
3732
41:35
DB: The half-life of that is short.
839
2483099
2290
41:37
GC: Right -- I was just going to say,
until Twitter happens again.
840
2485413
3255
41:40
CA: OK, I want to give
each of you the chance
841
2488692
3068
41:43
to imagine you're speaking
to -- I don't know --
842
2491784
3827
41:47
the people online who are watching this,
843
2495635
1951
41:49
who may be Trump supporters,
844
2497610
1546
41:51
who may be on the left,
somewhere in the middle.
845
2499180
3052
41:54
How would you advise them to bridge
or to relate to other people?
846
2502829
6795
42:01
Can you share any final wisdom on this?
847
2509648
4149
42:05
Or if you think that they shouldn't,
tell them that as well.
848
2513821
3774
42:09
GC: I would just start by saying
849
2517619
1636
42:11
that I really think any change
and coming together starts from the top,
850
2519279
4311
42:15
just like any other organization.
851
2523614
1938
42:18
And I would love if, somehow,
852
2526714
2878
42:21
Trump supporters or people on the left
could encourage their leaders
853
2529616
4563
42:26
to show that compassion from the top,
854
2534203
2552
42:28
because imagine the change
that we could have
855
2536779
3674
42:32
if Donald Trump tweeted out today,
856
2540477
2128
42:34
to all of his supporters,
857
2542629
1661
42:36
"Let's not be vile anymore to each other.
858
2544314
2660
42:38
Let's have more understanding.
859
2546998
1674
42:40
As a leader, I'm going
to be more inclusive
860
2548696
2830
42:43
to all of the people of America."
861
2551550
1935
42:46
To me, it starts at the top.
862
2554392
2093
42:48
Is he going to do that? I have no idea.
863
2556509
3377
42:51
But I think that everything
starts from the top,
864
2559910
2700
42:54
and the power that he has
865
2562634
1729
42:56
in encouraging his supporters
866
2564387
2989
42:59
to have an understanding of where
people are coming from on the other side.
867
2567400
3813
43:04
CA: David. DB: Yeah, I guess I would say
868
2572497
2499
43:07
I don't think we can teach
each other to be civil,
869
2575020
2742
43:09
and give us sermons on civility.
870
2577786
1743
43:11
That's not going to do it.
871
2579553
1244
43:12
It's substance and how we act,
872
2580821
1684
43:14
and the nice thing about Donald Trump
is he smashed our categories.
873
2582529
3619
43:18
All the categories that we thought
we were thinking in, they're obsolete.
874
2586172
4122
43:22
They were great for the 20th century.
They're not good for today.
875
2590318
3082
43:25
He's got an agenda which is about
closing borders and closing trade.
876
2593424
3231
43:28
I just don't think it's going to work.
877
2596679
1825
43:30
I think if we want to rebuild
communities, recreate jobs,
878
2598528
2821
43:33
we need a different set of agenda
879
2601373
1654
43:35
that smashes through all our current
divisions and our current categories.
880
2603051
3571
43:38
For me, that agenda is Reaganism
on macroeconomic policy,
881
2606646
3516
43:42
Sweden on welfare policy
882
2610186
2170
43:44
and cuts across right and left.
883
2612380
2202
43:46
I think we have to have a dynamic
economy that creates growth.
884
2614606
2937
43:49
That's the Reagan on economic policy.
885
2617567
1833
43:51
But people have to have that secure base.
886
2619424
1965
43:53
There have to be
nurse-family partnerships;
887
2621413
2051
43:55
there has to be universal preschool;
888
2623488
1778
43:57
there have to be charter schools;
889
2625290
1995
43:59
there have to be college programs
with wraparound programs
890
2627309
2968
44:02
for parents and communities.
891
2630301
1481
44:03
We need to help heal the crisis
of social solidarity in this country
892
2631806
4996
44:08
and help heal families,
893
2636826
1496
44:10
and government just has to get
a lot more involved
894
2638346
2334
44:12
in the way liberals like
to rebuild communities.
895
2640704
3663
44:16
At the other hand, we have to have
an economy that's free and open
896
2644391
3222
44:19
the way conservatives used to like.
897
2647637
1926
44:21
And so getting the substance right
is how you smash through
898
2649587
3058
44:24
the partisan identities,
899
2652669
1392
44:26
because the substance is what
ultimately shapes our polarization.
900
2654085
3303
44:30
CA: David and Gretchen, thank you so much
901
2658752
1969
44:32
for an absolutely
fascinating conversation.
902
2660745
2135
44:34
Thank you. That was really,
really interesting.
903
2662904
3137
44:38
(Applause)
904
2666065
3323
44:41
Hey, let's keep the conversation going.
905
2669412
4268
44:45
We're continuing to try and figure out
906
2673704
2117
44:47
whether we can add something here,
907
2675845
1636
44:49
so keep the conversation
going on Facebook.
908
2677505
2041
44:51
Give us your thoughts from whatever part
of the political spectrum you're on,
909
2679570
3690
44:55
and actually, wherever
in the world you are.
910
2683284
2061
44:57
This is not just about America.
It's about the world, too.
911
2685369
2758
45:01
But we're not going
to end today without music,
912
2689476
2334
45:03
because if we put music
in every political conversation,
913
2691834
4792
45:08
the world would be
completely different, frankly.
914
2696650
2438
45:11
It just would.
915
2699112
1778
45:12
(Applause)
916
2700914
2607
45:15
Up in Harlem, this extraordinary woman,
917
2703545
2090
45:17
Vy Higginsen, who's actually right here --
918
2705659
2425
45:20
let's get a shot of her.
919
2708108
1241
45:21
(Applause)
920
2709373
3369
45:24
She created this program
that brings teens together,
921
2712766
4283
45:29
teaches them the joy
and the impact of gospel music,
922
2717073
3444
45:32
and hundreds of teens have gone
through this program.
923
2720541
3979
45:36
It's transformative for them.
924
2724544
1519
45:38
The music they made, as you already heard,
925
2726087
2188
45:40
is extraordinary,
926
2728299
1306
45:41
and I can't think of a better way
of ending this TED Dialogue
927
2729629
4374
45:46
than welcoming Vy Higginsen's
Gospel Choir from Harlem.
928
2734027
3807
45:49
Thank you.
929
2737858
1177
45:51
(Applause)
930
2739059
3158
46:10
(Singing) Choir: O beautiful
for spacious skies
931
2758888
4634
46:15
For amber waves of grain
932
2763546
4932
46:20
For purple mountain majesties
933
2768502
4724
46:25
Above the fruited plain
934
2773250
4706
46:29
America!
935
2777980
2171
46:34
America!
936
2782649
2624
46:39
America!
937
2787182
2206
46:42
America!
938
2790546
3260
46:48
God shed his grace on thee
939
2796318
4652
46:52
And crown thy good with brotherhood
940
2800994
4415
46:57
From sea to shining sea
941
2805433
6987
47:11
From sea to shining sea
942
2819648
6997
47:25
(Applause)
943
2833417
6830
Translated by Joseph Geni
Reviewed by Camille Martínez

▲Back to top

ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Gretchen Carlson - TV journalist, women's empowerment advocate
Gretchen Carlson is a tireless advocate for workplace equality and women's empowerment.

Why you should listen

Named one of TIME's 100 Most Influential People in the World for 2017, Gretchen Carlson is one of the nation's most highly acclaimed journalists and a warrior for women. In 2016, Carlson became the face of sexual harassment in the workplace after her lawsuit against Fox News Chairman and CEO Roger Ailes paved the way for thousands of other women facing harassment to tell their stories. Carlson's advocacy put her on the cover of TIME, and her new book, Be Fierce: Stop Harassment and Take Your Power Back, joined the New York Times best-seller list the week it was published. She became a columnist for TIME's online "Motto" newsletter in 2017, focusing on gender and empowerment issues.

Carlson's ongoing work on behalf of women includes advocating for arbitration reform on Capitol Hill; in 2018, she plans to testify before Congress about workplace inequality and forced arbitration clauses in employment contracts. Carlson also created the Gift of Courage Fund and the Gretchen Carlson Leadership Initiative to support empowerment, advocacy and anti-harassment programs for girls and underserved women.

Carlson hosted "The Real Story" on Fox News for three years; co-hosted "Fox and Friends" for seven years; and in her first book, Getting Real, became a national best-seller. She co-hosted "The Saturday Early Show" for CBS in 2000 and served as a CBS News correspondent covering stories including Geneoa's G-8 Summit, Timothy McVeigh’s execution, 9/11 from the World Trade Center and the Bush-Gore election. She started her reporting career in Richmond, Virginia, then served as an anchor and reporter in Cincinnati, Cleveland and Dallas, where she produced and reported a 30-part series on domestic violence that won several national awards.

An honors graduate of Stanford University, Carlson was valedictorian of her high school class and studied at Oxford University in England. A child prodigy on the violin, she performed as a soloist with the Minnesota Symphony Orchestra at age 13, and in 1989, became the first classical violinist to win the Miss America crown.

Ever grateful for the opportunities provided to her and imbued with a "never give up" attitude, Carlson has mentored dozens of young women throughout her career. She serves as a national trustee for the March of Dimes, a member of the board of directors for the Catherine Violet Hubbard Animal Sanctuary in Newtown, Connecticut and a trustee of Greenwich Academy, an all-girls preparatory day school in Greenwich, Connecticut. Carlson is married to sports agent Casey Close and mom to their two children.

More profile about the speaker
Gretchen Carlson | Speaker | TED.com
Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir - Gospel ensemble
Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir of Harlem is an influential source of education and self-development for young people.

Why you should listen

Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir of Harlem is a celebrated group of performers elevated from the Mama Foundation for the Arts' Music School of Gospel, Jazz and R&B. The Foundation, founded by the writer/producer of Mama, I Want to Sing!, is a highly respected and influential source of education and self-development for young people. The award-winning, nationally recognized program offers performance choirs small, medium, and large and has been seen accompanying many of today's pop icons including Ariana Grande, Chance the Rapper, Pharrell Williams, Alessia Cara and Madonna.

In addition to various performances and collaborations throughout New York City, the choir enjoys weekly performances in Harlem. They can be seen every Sunday headlining Ginny Supper Club's Gospel Brunch at Marcus Samuelson's acclaimed restaurant, Red Rooster, which is ranked one of the top five gospel brunches in the nation. The choir will begin Saturday performances in The Harlem Gospel Concert Series beginning April 15th at The Dempsey Theater in Harlem.

More profile about the speaker
Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir | Speaker | TED.com
David Brooks - Op-ed columnist
Writer and thinker David Brooks has covered business, crime and politics over a long career in journalism.

Why you should listen

David Brooks became an Op-Ed columnist for The New York Times in September 2003. He is currently a commentator on "The PBS Newshour," NPR’s "All Things Considered" and NBC's "Meet the Press."

He is the author of Bobos in Paradise and The Social Animal. In April 2015, he released with his fourth book, The Road to Character, which was a #1 New York Times bestseller.

Brooks also teaches at Yale University, and is a member of the American Academy of Arts & Sciences.

Born on August 11, 1961 in Toronto, Canada, Brooks graduated a bachelor of history from the University of Chicago in 1983. He became a police reporter for the City News Bureau, a wire service owned jointly by the Chicago Tribune and Sun-Times.

He worked at The Washington Times and then The Wall Street Journal for nine years. His last post at the Journal was as Op-ed Editor. Prior to that, he was posted in Brussels, covering Russia, the Middle East, South Africa and European affairs. His first post at the Journal was as editor of the book review section, and he filled in as the Journal's movie critic.

He also served as a senior editor at The Weekly Standard for 9 years, as well as contributing editor for The Atlantic and Newsweek.

More profile about the speaker
David Brooks | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.

Why you should listen

Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.

Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.

Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.

Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.

This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.

He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.

In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.

Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.

More profile about the speaker
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com