ABOUT THE SPEAKER

Jackson Katz - Anti-sexism educator
Jackson Katz asks a very important question that gets at the root of why sexual abuse, rape and domestic abuse remain a problem: What's going on with men?

Why you should listen

Jackson Katz is an educator, author, filmmaker and cultural theorist who is a pioneer in the fields of gender violence prevention education and media literacy. He is co-founder of Mentors in Violence Prevention (MVP), which enlists men in the struggle to prevent men’s violence against women. Celebrating its 20th anniversary this year, MVP has become a widely used sexual and domestic violence prevention initiative in college and professional athletics across North America. Katz and his MVP colleagues have also worked extensively with schools, youth sports associations and community organizations, as well as with all major branches of the U.S. military.

Katz is the creator of popular educational videos including Tough Guise: Violence, Media and the Crisis in Masculinity. He is the author of The Macho Paradox: Why Some Men Hurt Women and How All Men Can Help and Leading Men: Presidential Campaigns and the Politics of Manhood. He has also appeared in several documentaries, including Hip Hop: Beyond Beats and Rhymes and MissRepresentation.

More profile about the speaker
Jackson Katz | Speaker | TED.com

TEDxFiDiWomen

Jackson Katz: Violence against women -- it's a men's issue

Jackson Katz: Emakumeen aurkako indarkeria: gizonen kontua da

Filmed: 2012-11-30

Readability: 4.2

2,252,948 views

Etxeko indarkeria eta indarkeria sexuala "emakume kontu" gisa hartzen dira sarri. Baina saio honetan, Jackson Katzek dio kontu hauek gizonenak direla -- eta jokabide biolento horiek gizontasunaren definiziora nola lotzen diren erakusten du. Kontzientzia pizte bat -- gizon eta emakumeentzat -- jokabide ez onargarriei aurre egin eta aldaketaren lider izateko.

Jackson Katz - Anti-sexism educator
Jackson Katz asks a very important question that gets at the root of why sexual abuse, rape and domestic abuse remain a problem: What's going on with men? Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12

I'm going to share with you

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Zuekin partekatzera noa

00:13

a paradigm-shifting perspective

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genero indarkeriaren paradigma

00:15

on the issues of gender violence --

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aldatzera doan ikuspuntu bat.

00:17

sexual assault, domestic violence, relationship abuse,

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Eraso sexuala, etxeko indarkeria,
harreman arazoak,

00:20

sexual harassment, sexual abuse of children.

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sexu-jazarpena, haurren eraso sexuala...

00:22

That whole range of issues that I'll refer to in shorthand

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Laburturik, landuko ditudan kontu guztiak,

00:24

as "gender violence issues,"

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"genero indarkeria kontuak" deituak,

00:26

they've been seen as women's issues that some good men

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emakumeen arazoak balira bezala
ikusi izan dira

non gizon onek
lagundu egiten duten.

00:29

help out with, but I have a problem with that frame

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Baina honek arazo bat dakar
eta ez dut onartuko.

00:32

and I don't accept it.

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Hau ez da emakumeen zerbait
non gizon onek lagundu egiten duten.

00:33

I don't see these as women's issues that some good men help out with.

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00:36

In fact, I'm going to argue that these are men's issues,

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Egia esan, kontu hauek
gizonenak direla defendatuko dut

00:38

first and foremost.

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batez ere.

00:40

(Applause)

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(Txaloak)

00:43

Now obviously, they're also women's issues,

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Emakumeen kontuak ere badira, noski,

00:45

so I appreciate that, but calling

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ulertzen dut, baina

00:48

gender violence a women's issue is part of the problem,

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genero biolentzia emakumeei egoztea
arazoaren parte da

00:50

for a number of reasons.

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hainbat arrazoi direla eta.

00:52

The first is that it gives men an excuse not to pay attention.

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Lehena, gizonei aukera ematen diela
arretarik ez jartzeko.

00:55

Right? A lot of men hear the term "women's issues"

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Gizon askok "emakumeen kontuak" entzutean

00:57

and we tend to tune it out, and we think,

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"deskonektatu" egiten dugu

pentsatuz, ni gizona naiz,
hori neskentzat, emakumeentzat da.

00:59

"Hey, I'm a guy. That's for the girls," or "That's for the women."

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01:01

And a lot of men literally don't get beyond the first sentence

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Eta gizon askok ez dute arreta jartzen
lehen esaldiaren ondoren,

01:04

as a result.

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ondorio gisa.

01:06

It's almost like a chip in our brain is activated,

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Garunean txip bat aktibatzea
bezala da ia,

01:08

and the neural pathways take our attention in a different direction

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eta bide neuronalek beste norabide bat
hartuko balute bezala

01:11

when we hear the term "women's issues."

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"emakumeen kontuak" entzutean.

01:13

This is also true, by the way, of the word "gender,"

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Hemen eragina du "genero" hitzak ere,

01:15

because a lot of people hear the word "gender"

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askok "genero" entzun

01:17

and they think it means "women."

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eta "emakume" pentsatzen dutelako.

01:19

So they think that gender issues is synonymous with women's issues.

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Genero kontuak eta emakume kontuak
sinonimotzat hartzen dituzte.

01:23

There's some confusion about the term gender.

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Nahasmena dago "genero" hitzaren inguruan.

01:25

And actually, let me illustrate that confusion by way of analogy.

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Eta nahaste hau analogia batekin
azalduko dizuet.

01:28

So let's talk for a moment about race.

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Hitz egin dezagun arrazari buruz.

01:29

In the U.S., when we hear the word "race,"

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EEBBetan, "arraza" entzutean

01:31

a lot of people think that means African-American,

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askok afro-amerikar ulertzen dute,

01:34

Latino, Asian-American, Native American,

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latino, asiar-amerikar,
amerikar natibo,

01:36

South Asian, Pacific Islander, on and on.

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Asia hegoaldeko, Pazifikoko irletako, etab.

01:40

A lot of people, when they hear the word "sexual orientation"

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Askok, "orientazio sexual" entzutean

01:42

think it means gay, lesbian, bisexual.

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gay, lesbiana edo bisexual ulertzen dute.

01:45

And a lot of people, when they hear the word "gender,"

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Askok, "genero" hitza entzutean,
emakume ulertzen dute.

01:47

think it means women. In each case,

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Kasu bakoitzean,

01:49

the dominant group doesn't get paid attention to.

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talde dominatzaileari ez zaio
arreta eskaintzen.

01:51

Right? As if white people don't have some sort of racial identity

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Arraza zurikoak arraza
identitaterik edo

01:54

or belong to some racial category or construct,

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arraza kategoriarik ez balute bezala.

01:58

as if heterosexual people don't have a sexual orientation,

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Heterosexualek orientazio
sexualik ez balute bezala,

02:01

as if men don't have a gender.

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gizonek generorik ez balute bezala.

02:03

This is one of the ways that dominant systems maintain

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Horrela mantentzen dira
sistema dominatzaileak

02:06

and reproduce themselves, which is to say

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eta euren burua ugaldu.

Talde dominatzaileari ez zaio
erronkarik botatzen,

02:08

the dominant group is rarely challenged to even think about its dominance,

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ezta bere nagusitasunaz
pentsarazten ere,

02:11

because that's one of the key characteristics

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hori baita indar eta pribilegioaren
ezaugarri bereizgarria.

02:13

of power and privilege, the ability to go unexamined,

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Aztertua ez izateko gaitasuna,

02:16

lacking introspection, in fact being rendered invisible

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introspekzio faltarekin batera,

diskurtsoaren barruan
ikusezinak bezala sentitzea

02:20

in large measure in the discourse

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neurri handi batean

02:22

about issues that are primarily about us.

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eta batez ere guri buruzko gaietan.

02:25

And this is amazing how this works

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Harrigarria da nola funtzionatzen duen

02:27

in domestic and sexual violence,

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etxeko eta sexu indarkerian.

02:28

how men have been largely erased from so much

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Nola gizonak ezabatu diren

02:31

of the conversation about a subject

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gai honi buruzko elkarrizketetatik,

02:32

that is centrally about men.

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bereziki gizonei buruzkoak direnean.

02:35

And I'm going to illustrate what I'm talking about

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Zeri buruz ari naizen
erakutsiko dizuet

02:37

by using the old tech.

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teknologia zaharrarekin.

02:38

I'm old school on some fundamental regards.

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Eskola zaharrekoa naiz aspektu batzuetan.

02:41

I work with -- I make films -- and I work with high tech,

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Filmekin eta goi mailako teknologiarekin
lan egiten dut

02:44

but I'm still old school as an educator,

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baina eskola zaharrekoa naiz
hezitzaile gisa,

02:46

and I want to share with you this exercise

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eta zuekin partekatu nahi dut ariketa hau

zeinak erakusten duen
esaldiaren estruktura mailan

02:49

that illustrates on the sentence structure level

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dugun pentsatzeko erak

02:52

how the way that we think,

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literalki, hizkuntza erabiltzeko
dugun moduak,

02:54

literally the way that we use language,

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02:56

conspires to keep our attention off of men.

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nola urruntzen duen arreta gizonengandik.

02:59

This is about domestic violence in particular,

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Zehazki etxeko indarkeriaz ari naiz

03:01

but you can plug in other analogues.

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baina beste eremu batzuetan
aplikatu daiteke.

Julia Penelope linguista feministaren
lanetik dator hau.

03:04

This comes from the work of the feminist linguist Julia Penelope.

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Inglesezko oinarrizko esaldi batekin
hasten da:

03:07

It starts with a very basic English sentence:

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03:09

"John beat Mary."

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"John beat Mary"

03:13

That's a good English sentence.

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Inglesez esaldi zuzena da.

03:14

John is the subject. Beat is the verb.

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John subjektua da. Jo aditza.

03:16

Mary is the object. Good sentence.

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Mary objektua da. Esaldi zuzena.

03:18

Now we're going to move to the second sentence,

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Ekin diezaiogun 2. esaldiari,

03:20

which says the same thing in the passive voice.

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non berdina esaten den modu pasiboan.

03:23

"Mary was beaten by John."

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"Mary was beaten by John".

03:29

And now a whole lot has happened in one sentence.

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Eta esaldi batean dena aldatu da.

03:32

We've gone from "John beat Mary"

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"John beat Mary" esalditik

"Mary was beaten by John" esaldira.

03:34

to "Mary was beaten by John."

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03:36

We've shifted our focus in one sentence from John to Mary,

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Gure arreta Johnetik Maryra pasatu dugu,

03:39

and you can see John is very close to the end of the sentence,

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eta John esaldi amaieran geratzen da,

gure eremu psikikoa uzteko zorian.

03:42

well, close to dropping off the map of our psychic plain.

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03:45

The third sentence, John is dropped,

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Hirugarren esaldian John desagertzen da,

03:47

and we have, "Mary was beaten,"

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eta "Mary was beaten" dugu

03:50

and now it's all about Mary.

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eta dena da Maryren inguruan.

03:52

We're not even thinking about John. It's totally focused on Mary.

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Ez dugu Johni buruz pentsatzen,
Maryn zentratzen gara.

03:55

Over the past generation, the term we've used

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Aurreko belaunaldian, erabilitako hitza

03:56

synonymous with "beaten" is "battered,"

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jipoitu zen jo ordez

03:58

so we have "Mary was battered."

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beraz "Mary was battered" dugu.

04:03

And the final sentence in this sequence,

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Eta sekuentzia honetako azken esaldia

04:05

flowing from the others, is,

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besteetatik eratorria,

04:07

"Mary is a battered woman."

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"Mary is a battered woman" da.

04:09

So now Mary's very identity -- Mary is a battered woman --

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Orain Maryren identitatea:
jipoitutako emakumea da.

04:16

is what was done to her by John in the first instance.

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Johnek hasieran egindakoa zehazten du.

04:19

But we've demonstrated that John has long ago left the conversation.

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Baina erakutsi dugu Johnek aspaldi
utzi zuela elkarrizketa.

04:22

Now, those of us who work in the domestic and sexual violence

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Etxeko eta sexu indarkeriarekin
dihardugunok

04:25

field know that victim-blaming is pervasive in this realm,

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badakigu ohikoa dela biktimari
botatzea errua eremu honetan,

04:28

which is to say, blaming the person to whom something was done

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hau da, zerbait egin zaion biktima
errudun egitea

04:31

rather than the person who did it.

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ekintza egin duenaren ordez.

04:32

And we say things like, why do these women go out with these men?

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Eta esaten dugu:
zergatik doaz horrelako gizonekin?

04:34

Why are they attracted to these men?

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Nola gustatzen zaizkie holakoak?

04:35

Why do they keep going back? What was she wearing at that party?

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Zergatik itzultzen dira?
Ze erropa jantzi zuen?

04:38

What a stupid thing to do. Why was she drinking

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A ze inozokeria.

Zergatik edan zuen
gizon horiekin hoteleko gelan?

04:40

with that group of guys in that hotel room?

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04:43

This is victim blaming, and there are numerous reasons for it,

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Biktima kulpabilizatzea da hori,
eta gertatzeko arrazoi asko daude:

esaterako, gure estruktura kognitiboa
biktimak erruduntzean oinarritzen da,

04:46

but one of them is that our whole cognitive structure

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04:48

is set up to blame victims. This is all unconscious.

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inkontzienteki.

04:51

Our whole cognitive structure is set up to ask questions

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Estruktura kognitiboak galderak egiten ditu
emakumeen eta hauen aukeren inguruan,

04:52

about women and women's choices and what they're doing,

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pentsamendu eta arropen inguruan.

04:55

thinking, and wearing.

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04:57

And I'm not going to shout down people who ask questions

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Ez dut isilaraziko emakumeei buruz
galdetzen duen jendea.

04:59

about women, okay? It's a legitimate thing to ask.

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Bidezkoa da galdetzea.

05:01

But's let's be clear: Asking questions about Mary

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Baina argiak izanez:
Maryri buruz galdetzeak

05:04

is not going to get us anywhere in terms of preventing violence.

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ez gaitu indarkeria ekiditera eramango.

05:06

We have to ask a different set of questions.

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Galdera desberdinak egin behar ditugu.

05:09

You can see where I'm going with this, right?

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Ikusten esan nahi dudana?

05:10

The questions are not about Mary. They're about John.

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Galderak ez dira Maryri buruzkoak.
Johni buruzkoak baizik.

05:14

The questions include things like, why does John beat Mary?

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Galderek aztertu behar dute,
zergatik Johnek Mary jotzen duen

05:17

Why is domestic violence still a big problem

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zergatik oraindik
etxeko indarkeria dagoen

05:19

in the United States and all over the world?

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EEBBetan eta mundu osoan.

05:21

What's going on? Why do so many men abuse,

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Zer gertatzen da?
Zergatik hainbeste gizonek

05:22

physically, emotionally, verbally, and other ways,

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fisikoki, emozionalki,
berbalki eta bestela erasotzen dituzte

05:25

the women and girls, and the men and boys,

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emakumeak eta neskak,
gizonak eta mutilak

05:27

that they claim to love? What's going on with men?

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maite dituztela esanez?

Zer gertatzen da gizonekin?

05:30

Why do so many adult men sexually abuse little girls and little boys?

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Zergatik erasotzen dituzte gizonek
haurrak sexualki?

05:34

Why is that a common problem in our society

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Zergatik da ohiko arazoa gure gizartean

05:35

and all over the world today?

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eta mundu guztian gaur egun?

05:37

Why do we hear over and over again

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Zergatik entzuten ditugu behin eta berriz

05:39

about new scandals erupting in major institutions

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eskandalu berriak
instituzio nagusien inguruan

05:43

like the Catholic Church or the Penn State football program

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eliza katolikoa edo Penn State
futbol programa esaterako

05:45

or the Boy Scouts of America, on and on and on?

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edo EEBBetako Boy Scoutak etab.?

05:48

And then local communities all over the country

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Herrialdeko komunikabide lokaletan
eta mundu guztikoetan?

05:50

and all over the world, right? We hear about it all the time.

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Etengabe jasotzen ditugu berriak.

05:53

The sexual abuse of children.

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Haurren kontrako eraso sexualak.

05:55

What's going on with men? Why do so many men rape women

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Zer gertatzen da gizonekin?

Zergatik bortxatu hainbeste emakume
gure gizartean eta munduan?

05:58

in our society and around the world?

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06:00

Why do so many men rape other men?

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Zergatik bortxatzen dituzte gizonek
hainbeste gizon?

06:02

What is going on with men?

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Zer gertatzen da gizonekin?

06:03

And then what is the role of the various institutions

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Eta zein da gure gizartean instituzioen jarrera

06:07

in our society that are helping to produce abusive men

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hainbeste gizon erasotzaile sortzeko
kopuru pandemikoetan?

06:10

at pandemic rates?

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06:11

Because this isn't about individual perpetrators.

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Ez baita erasotzaile indibidualen kontua.

06:13

That's a naive way to understanding what is a much deeper

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Era inozoa da hori

sakonagoa eta sistematikoagoa den
arazo sozial bat ulertzeko.

06:16

and more systematic social problem.

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06:17

You know, the perpetrators aren't these

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Dakizuenez, erasotzaileak ez dira
ihes egindako munstroak

06:19

monsters who crawl out of the swamp

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herrira etorri eta
gaiztakeriak egiten dituztenak

06:21

and come into town and do their nasty business

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06:24

and then retreat into the darkness.

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eta gero iluntasunera itzultzen direnak.

06:26

That's a very naive notion, right?

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Hori oso ikuspegi inozoa da, ezta?

06:28

Perpetrators are much more normal than that,

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Erasotzaileak hori baino arruntagoak dira,

06:30

and everyday than that.

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eta egunerokoagoak.

06:32

So the question is, what are we doing here

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Galdera da ea zer egiten ari garen
gizartean eta munduan.

06:35

in our society and in the world?

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06:36

What are the roles of various institutions

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Zein da instituzioen rola

06:38

in helping to produce abusive men?

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gizon erasotzaileak sortzerakoan?

06:40

What's the role of religious belief systems,

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Zein da sinismen erlijiosoen eginkizuna,

06:42

the sports culture, the pornography culture,

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kirol kulturarena, pornografia kulturarena,

06:45

the family structure, economics, and how that intersects,

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familia estrukturarena, ekonomiarena,
eta hauen arteko erlazioarena,

06:47

and race and ethnicity and how that intersects?

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eta arrazarena, etniena,
eta hauen arteko erlazioarena?

06:49

How does all this work?

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Nola funtzionatzen du horrek?

06:51

And then, once we start making those kinds of connections

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Eta behin lotura horiek egiten hasita

06:54

and asking those important and big questions,

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eta galdera garrantzitsu horiek
egiten hasita,

06:57

then we can talk about how we can be transformative,

167

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eraldatzaileak izateari buruz
hitz egin dezakegu.

06:59

in other words, how can we do something differently?

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Nola egin gauzak beste era batera?

07:01

How can we change the practices?

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Nola alda ditzakegu praktikak?

07:03

How can we change the socialization of boys

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Nola alda dezakegu mutilen sozializazioa

07:05

and the definitions of manhood that lead to these current outcomes?

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eta ondorio horietara eramaten duen
gizontasunaren definizioa?

07:09

These are the kind of questions that we need

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Hauek dira egin beharreko galderak

07:11

to be asking and the kind of work that we need to be doing,

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eta egin beharreko lana.

07:13

but if we're endlessly focused on what women are doing

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Baina emakumea egiten ari denean
zentratzen bagara,

07:16

and thinking in relationships or elsewhere,

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eta harremanetan edo beste gauzetan
pentsatzen badugu,

07:19

we're not going to get to that piece.

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ez gara gizonengana iritsiko.

07:21

Now, I understand that a lot of women

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Orain ulertzen ditut emakume asko,

07:23

who have been trying to speaking out about these issues,

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honi buruz hitz egiten saiatu direnak,

07:25

today and yesterday and for years and years,

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gaur, atzo eta urte askotan zehar,

07:28

often get shouted down for their efforts.

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eta isilaraziak izan direnak
saiakerengatik.

07:30

They get called nasty names like "male-basher"

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"Gizon-erasotzaile" bezalako
izen itsusiak jartzen dizkiete

07:33

and "man-hater,"

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1659

edo "gizonak gorroto dituena"

07:34

and the disgusting and offensive "feminazi." Right?

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edo iraingarria den "feminazi".

07:41

And you know what all this is about?

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Badakizue zeri buruz doan hau?

07:43

It's called kill the messenger.

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Mezularia hiltzea deritzo.

07:44

It's because the women who are standing up

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Zutik dirauten emakumeei

07:46

and speaking out for themselves and for other women

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1994

eta beraien eta besteen izenean
hitz egiten dutenei,

07:48

as well as for men and boys, it's a statement to them

188

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3810

baita gizonen izenean ere,
zuzendutako mezua da;

07:52

to sit down and shut up, keep the current system in place,

189

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3349

esertzeko eta isiltzeko,
egungo sistema mantentzeko,

07:55

because we don't like it when people rock the boat.

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ez zaigulako gustatzen gauzak mugitzea.

07:57

We don't like it when people challenge our power.

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Ez zaigu gustatzen boterea
mehatxatzea.

07:59

You'd better sit down and shut up, basically.

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Eseri eta isildu, labur esanda.

08:02

And thank goodness that women haven't done that.

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Eta eskerrak emakumeek ez duten hori egin.

08:04

Thank goodness that we live in a world

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Eskerrak mundu batean bizi garen

08:05

where there's so much women's leadership that can counteract that.

195

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non emakumeen lidergotza asko dagoen
horri aurka egiteko.

08:09

But one of the powerful roles that men can play in this work

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2524

Baina gizonok dugun rol boteretsu bat

08:11

is that we can say some things

197

479672

1589

batzuetan emakumeek esan ezin dituzten
gauza batzuk esan ditzakegula da

08:13

that sometimes women can't say,

198

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1739

08:15

or, better yet, we can be heard saying some things

199

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2158

edo, hobeto, entzunak izan gaitezke

08:17

that women often can't be heard saying.

200

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emakumeak entzunak ezin izan direnean.

08:19

Now, I appreciate that that's a problem. It's sexism.

201

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Badakit hori arazo bat dela. Sexismoa da.

08:22

But it's the truth. And so one of the things that I say to men,

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2328

Baina egia da.

Eta gizonei esaten diedana da,
eta lankideei, beti esaten dut,

08:24

and my colleagues and I always say this,

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2059

08:26

is we need more men who have the courage and the strength

204

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2221

indar eta ausardia duten
gizon gehiago behar ditugula

08:28

to start standing up and saying some of this stuff,

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2185

altsatu eta gauza hauek esaten hasteko

08:31

and standing with women and not against them

206

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emakumeekin altsatzeko eta ez hauen aurka

08:33

and pretending that somehow this is

207

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1241

iradokiz nolabait hau

08:35

a battle between the sexes and other kinds of nonsense.

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sexuen arteko gerra, edo horrelako
zentzugabekeria dela.

08:37

We live in the world together.

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Elkarrekin bizi gara munduan.

08:39

And by the way, one of the things that really bothers me

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507196

2492

Kezkatzen nauen gauza bat

08:41

about some of the rhetoric against feminists and others

211

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feministen aurkako erretorika
horretan zera da,

08:44

who have built the battered women's

212

512886

1084

emakumeen aurkako borrokan

08:45

and rape crisis movements around the world

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eta munduan zehar dagoen krisian

08:48

is that somehow, like I said, that they're anti-male.

214

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2264

nolabait, emakume batzuk
gizonen aurka daudela.

08:50

What about all the boys who are profoundly affected

215

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2576

Zer gertatzen da
hunkitu egiten diren mutilekin

08:53

in a negative way by what some adult man is doing

216

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2098

gizon askok egiten dutenagatik

08:55

against their mother, themselves, their sisters?

217

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beraien ama, arreba edo eurengatik?

08:58

What about all those boys?

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Zer gertatzen da mutil guzti horiekin?

09:01

What about all the young men and boys

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Zer gertatzen da gizonen indarkeriagatik
traumatizatuak izan diren mutil eta gazteekin?

09:02

who have been traumatized by adult men's violence?

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2572

09:04

You know what? The same system that produces

221

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1756

Emakumeak erasotzen dituztenak
sortzen dituen sistemak

09:06

men who abuse women produces men who abuse other men.

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gizonak erasotzen dituztenak ere
sortzen ditu.

09:09

And if we want to talk about male victims,

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1385

Gizonezko biktimei buruz hitz egin nahi badugu,
egin dezagun.

09:10

let's talk about male victims.

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09:12

Most male victims of violence are the victims of other men's violence.

225

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Gizonezko biktima gehienak gizonen
indarkeriaren biktima dira.

09:16

So that's something that both women and men have in common.

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2456

Gizon eta emakumeek
komunean duten zerbait da hori.

09:18

We are both victims of men's violence.

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Denok gara gizonen indarkeriaren biktimak.

09:20

So we have it in our direct self-interest,

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Beraz gure interesa da,

09:22

not to mention the fact that most men that I know

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ez esatearren ezagutzen ditudan
gizon gehienak

09:25

have women and girls that we care deeply about,

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inporta zaizkien emakumeak dauzkagula,

09:27

in our families and our friendship circles and every other way.

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gure familia eta lagunartean.

09:31

So there's so many reasons why we need men to speak out.

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Horregatik
hitz egiteko arrazoi asko ditugu.

09:34

It seems obvious saying it out loud. Doesn't it?

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Bistakoa dirudi altuan esatea, ezta?

09:37

Now, the nature of the work that I do and my colleagues do

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3761

Beraz, nire eta lankideen lana

09:41

in the sports culture and the U.S. military, in schools,

235

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3845

kiroletan, EEBBetako armadan,
eskoletan,

09:45

we pioneered this approach called the bystander approach

236

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2710

lekukoaren hurbilketa deiturikoa da

09:47

to gender violence prevention.

237

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1903

genero biolentziaren inguruan.

09:49

And I just want to give you the highlights of the bystander approach,

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2348

Lekukoen hurbilketaren inguruko
zerbait esan nahi nuke,

09:51

because it's a big thematic shift,

239

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3570

aldaketa nabarmena suposatzen duelako,
eta bereizgarri asko eskaintzen ditu.

09:55

although there's lots of particulars,

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1485

09:57

but the heart of it is, instead of seeing men as perpetrators

241

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3541

Oinarrian, gizonak erasotzaile gisa
ikusi beharrean

10:00

and women as victims,

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1682

eta emakumeak biktima

10:02

or women as perpetrators, men as victims,

243

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3356

edo emakumeak erasotzaile
eta gizonak biktima,

10:05

or any combination in there.

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edo edozein konbinazio.

10:07

I'm using the gender binary. I know there's more

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Genero binarioa darabilt.

Badakit gizonak eta emakumeak
baino gehiago dagoela.

10:08

than men and women, there's more than male and female.

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2364

10:11

And there are women who are perpetrators,

247

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Eta badaude emakume erasotzaileak,

10:12

and of course there are men who are victims.

248

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eta noski gizon biktimak.

10:15

There's a whole spectrum.

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Espektro handi bat dago.

10:16

But instead of seeing it in the binary fashion,

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2572

Baina modu binarioan ikusi beharrean,

10:18

we focus on all of us as what we call bystanders,

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lekukoen ikuspegia defendatzen dugu,

10:21

and a bystander is defined as anybody who is not

252

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eta lekukoak
ez erasotzaile ez biktima direnak dira;

10:24

a perpetrator or a victim in a given situation,

253

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3068

hau da, lagunak, taldekideak, lankideak,

10:27

so in other words friends, teammates, colleagues,

254

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2456

10:30

coworkers, family members, those of us

255

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familia kideak edo edonor

10:32

who are not directly involved in a dyad of abuse,

256

620490

3135

erasoaren diadan sartuta ez dagoena,

10:35

but we are embedded in social, family, work, school,

257

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3197

baina baditugu gizartean, familian,
eskolan, lanean,

10:38

and other peer culture relationships with people

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2288

eta beste erlazioetan
eraso egoeran egon daitezkeenak.

10:41

who might be in that situation. What do we do?

259

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2048

Zer egin? Nola hitz egin?
Nola egin aurka lagunei?

10:43

How do we speak up? How do we challenge our friends?

260

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2216

Nola babestu lagunak?

10:45

How do we support our friends? But how do we not

261

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2625

Nola egin isilik ez geratzeko
erasoen aurrean?

10:47

remain silent in the face of abuse?

262

635999

2436

10:50

Now, when it comes to men and male culture,

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2500

Gizon eta gizon kulturari dagokionez,

10:52

the goal is to get men who are not abusive

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erasotzaile ez direnek
badirenei aurre egitea da helburua.

10:55

to challenge men who are.

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10:56

And when I say abusive, I don't mean just

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1955

Eta erasotzaileak ez dira bakarrik
emakumeak jotzen dituztenak.

10:58

men who are beating women.

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1083

10:59

We're not just saying a man whose friend

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3618

Ez da soilik gizonei esatea

11:03

is abusing his girlfriend needs to stop the guy

269

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3032

neskalaguna jotzen duen gizona
geldiarazi behar dutela

11:06

at the moment of attack.

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1279

erasoaren momentuan.

11:07

That's a naive way of creating a social change.

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4361

Hau aldaketa soziala ulertzeko
modu inozoa da.

11:11

It's along a continuum, we're trying to get men

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Kontinuum batean saiatu behar dugu
gizonok elkarri geldiarazten.

11:14

to interrupt each other.

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957

11:15

So, for example, if you're a guy and you're in a group of guys

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2659

Adibidez, gizona bazara eta gizon talde
batean bazaude

11:18

playing poker, talking, hanging out, no women present,

275

666295

3095

pokerrean jolasten, hitz egiten,
emakumerik gabe,

11:21

and another guy says something sexist or degrading

276

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3456

eta gizon batek zerbait sexista
esaten badu

11:24

or harassing about women,

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edo mingarria emakumeentzat,

11:27

instead of laughing along or pretending you didn't hear it,

278

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3373

barre egin beharrean edo
ez entzunarena egin,

11:30

we need men to say, "Hey, that's not funny.

279

678988

1682

zera esan behar dugu:

"Aizu, ez da barregarria.
Nire arreba izan liteke hori,

11:32

You know, that could be my sister you're talking about,

280

680670

2172

11:34

and could you joke about something else?

281

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1590

beste zerbaiti buruz
egin dezakezu barre?

11:36

Or could you talk about something else?

282

684432

1298

Edo beste zerbaitez hitz egin?

11:37

I don't appreciate that kind of talk."

283

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1886

Ez nago gustora gai honekin."

11:39

Just like if you're a white person and another white person

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2579

Zuria izango bazina bezala
eta beste zuri batek

11:42

makes a racist comment, you'd hope, I hope,

285

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2307

komentario arrazista egitean,
esperoko zenuke

11:44

that white people would interrupt that racist enactment

286

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3839

zuriek ez onartzea beste zuri batek
egindako komentario arrazista.

11:48

by a fellow white person.

287

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1115

11:49

Just like with heterosexism, if you're a heterosexual person

288

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2519

Heteresoxuala izango bazina bezala

11:51

and you yourself don't enact harassing or abusive behaviors

289

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3169

eta jokabide erasotzaileen aurrean
ezer egingo ez bazenu,

11:55

towards people of varying sexual orientations,

290

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2375

beste orientazio batzuen
aurkako komentarioa

11:57

if you don't say something in the face of other heterosexual people doing that,

291

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3439

egiten duen heterosexualari
ezer esango ez bazenio,

12:00

then, in a sense, isn't your silence

292

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1409

ez al litzateke zure isiltasuna
modu batean onarpen bat izango?

12:02

a form of consent and complicity?

293

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2236

12:04

Well, the bystander approach is trying to give people tools

294

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2357

Lekukoen ikuspegiak tresna bat
eskaintzen du

12:06

to interrupt that process and to speak up

295

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2685

prozesua gelditu eta altsatzeko

12:09

and to create a peer culture climate

296

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eta kide kultura klima sortzeko

12:11

where the abusive behavior will be seen as unacceptable,

297

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non jokabide erasotzailea ez den onartzen,

12:13

not just because it's illegal, but because it's wrong

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3415

ez bakarrik ilegala delako,
okerra delako baizik

12:17

and unacceptable in the peer culture.

299

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eta onartezina berdinen kulturan.

12:19

And if we can get to the place where men

300

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2121

Eta lor badezakegu gizonek

12:21

who act out in sexist ways will lose status,

301

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2784

modu sexistan jokatzean estatusa galtzea,

12:23

young men and boys who act out in sexist

302

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modu sexistan jokatzen duten
mutil eta gazteek

12:25

and harassing ways towards girls and women,

303

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1605

eta emakumeekiko modu iraingarrian

12:27

as well as towards other boys and men,

304

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1713

baita beste mutilekiko ere,

12:29

will lose status as a result of it, guess what?

305

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2993

estatusa galtzen badute,
badakizue zer?

12:32

We'll see a radical diminution of the abuse.

306

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3097

Erasoen gutxitze radikala ikusiko dugu.

12:35

Because the typical perpetrator is not sick and twisted.

307

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2499

Erasotzaile ohikoa ez delako
gaixo eta zoroa.

12:37

He's a normal guy in every other way. Isn't he?

308

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2980

Gizon normala baizik, ezta?

12:40

Now, among the many great things that Martin Luther King

309

748734

3443

Orain, Martin Luther Kingek
bizitzan esandako gauza bikainenetarikoa:

12:44

said in his short life was,

310

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1366

"Azkenean, min gehien ematen duena

12:45

"In the end, what will hurt the most

311

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1795

12:47

is not the words of our enemies

312

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1895

ez dira etsaien hitzak

12:49

but the silence of our friends."

313

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1740

lagunen isiltasuna baizik".

12:50

In the end, what will hurt the most is not the words

314

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Azkenean min gehien ematen dutenak
ez dira gure etsaien hitzak,

12:53

of our enemies but the silence of our friends.

315

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2310

lagunen isiltasuna baizik.

12:55

There's been an awful lot of silence in male culture

316

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2101

Isiltasun ikaragarria egon da gizonen kulturan

12:57

about this ongoing tragedy of men's violence

317

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2812

gizonen indarkeria trajiko honen inguruan

13:00

against women and children, hasn't there?

318

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2079

emakume eta haurren aurka, ezta?

13:02

There's been an awful lot of silence.

319

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1418

Isiltasun beldurgarria egon da.

13:03

And all I'm saying is that we need to break that silence,

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3407

Eta esaten dudana da
isiltasuna apurtu behar dugula,

13:07

and we need more men to do that.

321

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2260

eta horretarako
gizon gehiago behar ditugu.

13:09

Now, it's easier said than done,

322

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3323

Errezagoa da esatea egitea baino,

13:12

because I'm saying it now, but I'm telling you it's not easy

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2823

esaten ari natzaizuelako,

baina ez da erraza gizonen kulturan
gizonek elkarri salatzea,

13:15

in male culture for guys to challenge each other,

324

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2692

13:18

which is one of the reasons why

325

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1713

eta paradigma aldatu behar dela
erakusten duen arrazoi bat da hori.

13:20

part of the paradigm shift that has to happen

326

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2676

13:22

is not just understanding these issues as men's issues,

327

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3005

Ez delako gizonen gauzak direla
ulertzea bakarrik

13:25

but they're also leadership issues for men.

328

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2247

baizik eta gizonen lidergo kontuak.

13:27

Because ultimately, the responsibility for taking a stand

329

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2572

Azkenaldian, hitz egitearen erantzukizuna

13:30

on these issues should not fall on the shoulders

330

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1681

ez litzatekelako jauzi behar
eskolako mutil gazteengan

13:32

of little boys or teenage boys in high school

331

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3081

13:35

or college men. It should be on adult men with power.

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3400

edo unibertsitateko mutilengan.

Boteredun gizonengan baizik.

13:38

Adult men with power are the ones we need to be holding accountable

333

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2498

Gizon boteretsuak dira behar ditugunak

13:41

for being leaders on these issues,

334

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1476

kontu hauetan liderrak izateko,

13:42

because when somebody speaks up in a peer culture

335

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2554

berdinen kulturan norbaitek hitz egitean

13:45

and challenges and interrupts, he or she

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813216

2695

eta erronkak jarri eta oztopatzean,

gizon edo emakume,
lider bat izaten ari da, ezta?

13:47

is being a leader, really, right?

337

815911

2369

13:50

But on a big scale, we need more adult men with power

338

818280

3288

Baina eskala handian
gizon heldu boteretsu gehiago behar ditugu

13:53

to start prioritizing these issues,

339

821568

2162

kontu hauei lehentasuna emateko,

13:55

and we haven't seen that yet, have we?

340

823730

2252

eta oraindik ez dugu hori ikusi, ezta?

13:57

Now, I was at a dinner a number of years ago,

341

825982

3686

Duela urte batzuk afari batean nengoen,

14:01

and I work extensively with the U.S. military, all the services.

342

829668

3201

askotan egiten dut lan
EEBBetako militarrekin, zerbitzu guztiekin.

14:04

And I was at this dinner and this woman said to me --

343

832869

3092

Afari horretan nengoen eta emakume batek
esan zidan --

14:07

I think she thought she was a little clever -- she said,

344

835961

2750

Zena baino azkarragoa zela
uste zuela iruditu zitzaidan --

14:10

"So how long have you been doing sensitivity training

345

838711

2794

"Zenbat denbora daramazu
sentikortasuna entrenatzen marineekin?"

14:13

with the Marines?"

346

841505

1801

14:15

And I said, "With all due respect,

347

843306

2843

Eta esan nuen: "Errespetu guztiarekin,

14:18

I don't do sensitivity training with the Marines.

348

846149

2777

ez dut marineen sentikortasuna entrenatzen.

14:20

I run a leadership program in the Marine Corps."

349

848926

2496

Lidergotza programa zuzentzen dut
Marine taldean".

14:23

Now, I know it's a bit pompous, my response,

350

851422

1797

Badakit nire erantzuna harroa dela,

14:25

but it's an important distinction, because I don't believe

351

853219

3177

baina bereizketa garrantzitsua da
ez baitut uste

14:28

that what we need is sensitivity training.

352

856396

1988

behar duguna
sentikortasuna entrenatzea denik.

14:30

We need leadership training, because, for example,

353

858384

2094

Lidergotza entrenamendua baizik.

Izan ere, saskibaloi talde bateko
entrenatzaile preofesional batek

14:32

when a professional coach or a manager of a baseball team

354

860478

3162

14:35

or a football team -- and I work extensively in that realm as well --

355

863640

3045

edo futboleko batek -eta askotan
egiten dut lan eremu horretan ere-

14:38

makes a sexist comment, makes a homophobic statement,

356

866685

3690

komentario sexista egiten badu,
homofobikoa, arrazista,

14:42

makes a racist comment, there will be discussions

357

870375

2364

eztabaidak sortuko dira
kirol blog edo irratsaioetan.

14:44

on the sports blogs and in sports talk radio.

358

872739

2372

14:47

And some people will say, "Well, he needs sensitivity training."

359

875111

2132

Eta batzuek esango dute:
"Sentikortasun entrenamendua behar du".

14:49

And other people will say, "Well get off it.

360

877243

1591

Eta beste batzuek: "Irten hortik.

14:50

You know, that's political correctness run amok,

361

878834

1991

Politikoki zuzena izatea ahaztu du,

14:52

and he made a stupid statement. Move on."

362

880825

2034

eta komentario okerra egin. Ahaztu".

14:54

My argument is, he doesn't need sensitivity training.

363

882859

2411

Diodana da ez duela
sentikortasun entrenamendua behar,

14:57

He needs leadership training,

364

885270

1628

lidergotza entrenamendua baizik,

14:58

because he's being a bad leader, because in a society

365

886898

2569

lider txarra izaten ari delako,
gizarte batean

15:01

with gender diversity and sexual diversity --

366

889467

2811

genero eta orientazio aniztasunarekin --

15:04

(Applause) —

367

892278

1580

(Txaloak) --

15:05

and racial and ethnic diversity, you make

368

893858

1620

arraza eta etnia aniztasunarekin.

15:07

those kind of comments, you're failing at your leadership.

369

895478

2227

Horrelako komentario batekin
lidergotzari huts egiten dio.

15:09

If we can make this point that I'm making

370

897705

2990

Esaten ari naizena helarazi badezakegu

15:12

to powerful men and women in our society

371

900695

3063

gizarteko gizon eta emakume boteretsuei

15:15

at all levels of institutional authority and power,

372

903758

2393

autoritate instituzional maila guztietara,

15:18

it's going to change, it's going to change

373

906151

2268

aldaketa emango da,

aldatu egingo da
jendearen pentsaera.

15:20

the paradigm of people's thinking.

374

908419

2075

15:22

You know, for example, I work a lot

375

910494

1634

Esaterako, askotan egiten dut lan

15:24

in college and university athletics throughout North America.

376

912128

4414

EEBBetako eskola eta unibertsitateetako
atletekin.

15:28

We know so much about how to prevent

377

916542

1982

Ondo dakigu nola ekidin
etxeko eta sexu indarkeria, ezta?

15:30

domestic and sexual violence, right?

378

918524

2403

15:32

There's no excuse for a college or university

379

920927

3082

Ez dago aitzakiarik
unibertsitate batentzat

15:36

to not have domestic and sexual violence prevention training

380

924009

2878

indarkeria ekiditeko programarik
ez edukitzeko

15:38

mandated for all student athletes, coaches, administrators,

381

926887

2760

ikasle, atleta, entrenatzaile
eta administratzaile guztientzat,

15:41

as part of their educational process.

382

929647

2281

beraien hezkuntza prozesu gisa.

15:43

We know enough to know that we can easily do that.

383

931928

2207

Nahikoa dakigu jakiteko erraz
egin dezakegula.

15:46

But you know what's missing? The leadership.

384

934135

2377

Baina badakizue zer falta den?
Lidergotza.

15:48

But it's not the leadership of student athletes.

385

936512

2006

Baina ez atleten lidergotza.

15:50

It's the leadership of the athletic director,

386

938518

1359

Atleten zuzendarien lidergotza

15:51

the president of the university, the people in charge

387

939877

2659

unibertsitateko zuzendariarena,
arduradunena,

15:54

who make decisions about resources

388

942536

1698

erabakiak hartzen dituztenena,

15:56

and who make decisions about priorities in the institutional settings.

389

944234

2956

instituzioetan erabakitzen dutenena.

15:59

That's a failure, in most cases, of men's leadership.

390

947190

3969

Porrota da,
gizonen lidergotzarena gehienetan.

16:03

Look at Penn State. Penn State is the mother

391

951159

3085

Begira Penn State.

Penn State da
lekukoen ikuspegiaren irakasgai nagusia.

16:06

of all teachable moments for the bystander approach.

392

954244

2467

16:08

You had so many situations in that realm

393

956711

2438

Hainbat egoera daude eremu hartan

16:11

where men in powerful positions failed to act

394

959149

3289

non gizon boteretsuek porrot egin duten

16:14

to protect children, in this case, boys.

395

962438

2574

haurrak babesterakoan, mutilak.

16:17

It's unbelievable, really. But when you get into it,

396

965012

2273

Sinestezina da.

Baina barruan zaudenean

16:19

you realize there are pressures on men.

397

967285

1930

ohartzen zara gizonek presioa dutela.

16:21

There are constraints within peer cultures on men,

398

969215

3141

Behartzeak daude gizonengan
berdinen kulturan,

16:24

which is why we need to encourage men

399

972356

2315

horregatik animatu behar ditugu gizonak

16:26

to break through those pressures.

400

974671

1872

presio horiek hausteko.

16:28

And one of the ways to do that is to say

401

976543

1324

Eta horretarako bide bat da

16:29

there's an awful lot of men who care deeply about these issues.

402

977867

2663

esatea gizon asko dagoela
kontu hauekin kezkatuta.

16:32

I know this. I work with men,

403

980530

1449

Badakit. Gizonekin dihardut,

16:33

and I've been working with tens of thousands,

404

981979

1533

eta milaka gizonekin egin dut lan

16:35

hundreds of thousands of men for many, many decades now.

405

983512

3441

ehundaka milakarekin hamarkadetan zehar.

16:38

It's scary, when you think about it, how many years.

406

986953

2894

Beldurra ematen du
zenbat urte izan diren pentsatzeak.

16:41

But there's so many men who care deeply about these issues,

407

989847

3852

Baina gizon asko dago kontu hauez
kezkatzen dena,

16:45

but caring deeply is not enough.

408

993699

1917

baina kezkatzea ez da nahiko.

16:47

We need more men with the guts,

409

995616

2762

Gizon ausart gehiago behar ditugu

16:50

with the courage, with the strength, with the moral integrity

410

998378

3239

ausardi, indar eta osotasun moralarekin

16:53

to break our complicit silence and challenge each other

411

1001617

4236

isiltasun hau apurtu eta elkarri salatzeko

emakumeekin altsatzeko
eta ez kontra egiteko.

16:57

and stand with women and not against them.

412

1005853

1812

16:59

By the way, we owe it to women.

413

1007665

2242

Emakumeei zor diegu.

17:01

There's no question about it.

414

1009907

1092

Ez dago zalantzarik.

17:02

But we also owe it to our sons.

415

1010999

1746

Baina gure semeei ere zor diegu.

17:04

We also owe it to young men who are growing up

416

1012745

2134

Hazten ari diren gizonei ere zor diegu,

17:06

all over the world in situations where they didn't make the choice

417

1014879

3032

mundu guztian dauden horiei,
aukeratu ez dituzten egoeretan,

17:09

to be a man in a culture that tells them

418

1017911

2140

gizonak izan daitezen

gizon izateak zerbait esan nahi duen
kultura batean.

17:12

that manhood is a certain way.

419

1020051

1464

17:13

They didn't make the choice.

420

1021515

1394

Ez zuten aukeratu.

17:14

We that have a choice have an opportunity

421

1022909

3965

Hautatu dezakegunok aukera bat daukagu

17:18

and a responsibility to them as well.

422

1026874

1630

eta erantzukizun bat ere.

17:20

I hope that, going forward, men and women,

423

1028504

3111

Espero dut, aurrera egin ahala,
emakume eta gizon,

17:23

working together, can begin the change

424

1031615

2049

elkarrekin lanean,
aldaketa hasiko dela

17:25

and the transformation that will happen

425

1033664

1556

eta eraldaketa hasiko dela

17:27

so that future generations won't have the level of tragedy

426

1035220

2660

eta etorkizunean ez dela hainbeste
tragedia emango

17:29

that we deal with on a daily basis.

427

1037880

1417

egun ditugunak bezala.

17:31

I know we can do it. We can do better.

428

1039297

2043

Badakit egin dezakegula.
Hobeto egin dezakegu.

17:33

Thank you very much. (Applause)

429

1041340

2489

Eskerrik asko.

(Txaloak)

Translated by Ainize Sarrionandia
Reviewed by Maider Lizoain Cotanda

ABOUT THE SPEAKER

Jackson Katz - Anti-sexism educator
Jackson Katz asks a very important question that gets at the root of why sexual abuse, rape and domestic abuse remain a problem: What's going on with men?

Why you should listen

Jackson Katz is an educator, author, filmmaker and cultural theorist who is a pioneer in the fields of gender violence prevention education and media literacy. He is co-founder of Mentors in Violence Prevention (MVP), which enlists men in the struggle to prevent men’s violence against women. Celebrating its 20th anniversary this year, MVP has become a widely used sexual and domestic violence prevention initiative in college and professional athletics across North America. Katz and his MVP colleagues have also worked extensively with schools, youth sports associations and community organizations, as well as with all major branches of the U.S. military.

Katz is the creator of popular educational videos including Tough Guise: Violence, Media and the Crisis in Masculinity. He is the author of The Macho Paradox: Why Some Men Hurt Women and How All Men Can Help and Leading Men: Presidential Campaigns and the Politics of Manhood. He has also appeared in several documentaries, including Hip Hop: Beyond Beats and Rhymes and MissRepresentation.

More profile about the speaker
Jackson Katz | Speaker | TED.com

THE ORIGINAL VIDEO ON TED.COM

Jackson Katz: Emakumeen aurkako indarkeria: gizonen kontua da | TED Talk | TED.com