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TEDIndia 2009

Ryan Lobo: Photographing the hidden story

ライアン・ロボ「見えざる物語の撮影」

November 6, 2009

ライアン・ロボは世界中を旅して、人間の非日常的な生き様を写真を通じて伝えてきました。この心に残るトークで、ロボは論議の的になる問題を、感情を織り交ぜて違う角度から見つめます。取り上げるのは、リベリアの戦争犯罪者、静かに活動する国連女性平和維持軍、そして軽蔑されながら消火活動に取り組むデリー消防隊の物語です。

Ryan Lobo - Photographer
As a photographer and filmmaker, Ryan Lobo uses his exquisite lens to capture humanity and nature at their most open and vulnerable moments. Full bio

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Double-click the English subtitles below to play the video.
My name is Ryan Lobo,
ライアン・ロボといいます
00:15
and I've been involved in the documentary
ここ10年 私は世界中で
00:17
filmmaking business all over the world for the last 10 years.
ドキュメンタリ映画の制作に携わってきました
00:19
During the process of making these films
映画制作の過程で
00:23
I found myself taking photographs,
カメラマンがうんざりするほど
00:25
often much to the annoyance of the video cameramen.
私が写真を撮っていることに気がつきました
00:28
I found this photography of mine almost compulsive.
私が撮った写真は強迫的ですらあると思いました
00:31
And at the end of a shoot, I would sometimes feel that
写真の方が 時に扇情的なドキュメンタリより
00:34
I had photographs that told a better story
真実を物語っていると
00:37
than a sometimes-sensational documentary.
撮影の最後に 時々感じることがありました
00:40
I felt, when I had my photographs,
政治や議題を問わず
00:44
that I was holding on to something true,
写真を撮る瞬間に
00:46
regardless of agendas or politics.
ゆるぎない真実をつかめる気がしました
00:48
In 2007, I traveled to three war zones.
2007年 私は戦線を3か所回りました
00:51
I traveled to Iraq, Afghanistan and Liberia.
イラク アフガニスタン そして リベリアへ行きました
00:55
And over there I experienced
そこでは人々の苦悩を
00:58
other people's suffering, up close and personal,
間近で感じ 私自身がなにか
01:00
immersed myself in some rather intense and emotional stories,
強烈な感情に訴えかける物語の中にいるようで
01:03
and at times I experienced great fear for my own life.
自分の命を脅かす大きな恐怖すら味わいました
01:07
As always, I would return to Bangalore,
いつも通り バンガロールへ戻り
01:12
and often to animated discussions at friend's homes,
友人の家で熱い議論を交わすはずでした
01:14
where we would discuss various issues
そこでは色々なことを話しますが
01:17
while they complained bitterly about the new pub timings,
新しいパブの営業時間への痛烈な皮肉
01:19
where a drink often cost more than what they'd paid
彼らが雇う召使い代より高価な
01:22
their 14-year-old maid.
ぼったくりな酒への文句とか
01:24
I would feel very isolated during these discussions.
この手の話を聞くと大きな疎外感を覚えたものです
01:26
But at the same time, I questioned myself
しかし同時に 私自身の一貫性や
01:30
and my own integrity and purpose in storytelling.
物語を語る目的は何か自問しました
01:33
And I decided that I had compromised,
そして 下らない議論をする友人同様に
01:37
just like my friends in those discussions,
私は妥協していたのだと気づきました
01:41
where we told stories
言い逃ればかりして
01:44
in contexts we made excuses for,
無責任な
01:47
rather than taking responsibility for.
話ばかりしていました
01:50
I won't go into details about what led to a decision I made,
私が下した決断について 深入りしませんが
01:54
but let's just say it involved alcohol, cigarettes,
アルコール タバコ そして
02:01
other substances and a woman.
女性が関与していたとだけ言っておきます
02:03
(Laughter)
(笑)
02:06
I basically decided that it was I,
私の決断とは 物語を語る上で
02:07
not the camera or the network,
真に価値のある道具とは
02:09
or anything that lay outside myself,
ネットワークやカメラといったツールではなく
02:11
that was the only instrument in storytelling
他でもない
02:14
truly worth tuning.
私自身であるということです
02:16
In my life, when I tried to achieve things
私の人生で 成功や名声といったものを
02:19
like success or recognition, they eluded me.
追求すればするほど それらは遠のきました
02:22
Paradoxically, when I let go of these objectives,
逆説的に それらの目的に囚われずに
02:25
and worked from a place of compassion and purpose,
情熱や決意を拠り所にして
02:28
looking for excellence, rather than the results of it,
結果よりも卓越した仕事をすることに集中すると
02:31
everything arrived on its own, including fulfillment.
自ずと結果に結び付き 満足を得られました
02:35
Photography transcended culture, including my own.
写真は私自身を 文化を超越したのです
02:40
And it is, for me, a language which expressed the intangible,
そして写真は私にとって見えないものを表現する言語であり
02:43
and gives voice to people and stories without.
人々や物語に声を吹き込みます
02:47
I invite you into three recent stories of mine,
最近の話を三つ紹介します
02:49
which are about this way of looking, if you will,
いずれも
02:51
which I believe exemplify the tenets
私の考える物語を語る情熱への
02:54
of what I like to call compassion in storytelling.
信条を示していると思います
02:57
In 2007 I went to Liberia,
2007年 私はリベリアに行きました
03:01
where a group of my friends and I
そこで私の友人のグループで 独自に
03:06
did an independent, self-funded film, still in progress,
自費の映画を作りました 今も継続中です
03:10
on a very legendary and brutal war-lord
これはバット・ネイキッドという名の
03:13
named General Butt Naked.
伝説的で残忍な将軍の話です
03:17
His real name is Joshua, and he's pictured here in a cell
本名はジョシュア この独房で撮影をしました
03:19
where he once used to torture and murder people,
ここは以前彼が人を拷問し殺害した場所です
03:22
including children.
子供でさえです
03:25
Joshua claims to have personally killed
リベリアの内戦中に1万人以上を
03:28
more than 10,000 people during Liberia's civil war.
殺してきたとジョシュアは自供します
03:30
He got his name from fighting stark naked.
裸で荒々しく戦う姿からこの名がつきました
03:34
And he is probably the most prolific mass murderer
彼はおそらく今日 地球上に
03:37
alive on Earth today.
生存するもっとも残忍な殺人鬼です
03:39
This woman witnessed the General murdering her brother.
この女性は兄を目の前で殺されました
03:42
Joshua commanded his child-soldiers to commit unspeakable crimes,
ジョシュアは少年兵に冷酷な犯罪を強要し
03:47
and enforced his command with great brutality.
その残忍性で指揮を強めていきました
03:50
Today many of these children are addicted to drugs like heroin,
今日 元少年兵の多くはヘロイン等
03:53
and they are destitute, like these young men in the image.
薬物に中毒し 写真の若者達同様 極貧状態にあります
03:56
How do you live with yourself
凶悪犯罪を犯したと知りながら
04:01
if you know you've committed horrific crimes?
どう折り合いをつけて生きていけるでしょう?
04:03
Today the General is a baptized Christian evangelist.
今日 将軍は洗礼を受けて 福音伝道者になりました
04:08
And he's on a mission.
彼はミッションの最中です
04:12
We accompanied Joshua, as he walked the Earth,
かつて強姦や殺戮を繰り広げた―
04:14
visiting villages where he had once killed and raped.
村を歩き訪れる ジョシュアを追いました
04:17
He seeked forgiveness,
彼は許しを乞い
04:20
and he claims to endeavor to improve
元少年兵の生活改善に向け
04:22
the lives of his child-soldiers.
努力すると誓いました
04:24
During this expedition I expected him
この遠征中に彼は殺されることを―
04:26
to be killed outright, and us as well.
私達共々― 恐れました
04:28
But what I saw opened my eyes
しかし 思いもしなかった
04:30
to an idea of forgiveness
寛大な心を
04:32
which I never thought possible.
目の当たりにしたのです
04:34
In the midst of incredible poverty and loss,
極貧の最中にありながらも
04:37
people who had nothing absolved a man
彼らから全てを奪った男を
04:40
who had taken everything from them.
許したのです
04:42
He begs for forgiveness,
彼は許しを請い
04:46
and receives it from the same woman
弟を殺された女性から
04:48
whose brother he murdered.
容赦を頂きます
04:50
Senegalese, the young man seated on the wheelchair here,
この車椅子のセネガル人青年は
04:53
was once a child soldier, under the General's command,
かつて将軍の少年兵でしたが
04:55
until he disobeyed orders,
命令に背いた途端に
04:58
and the General shot off both his legs.
将軍に脚を銃で撃ち落とされました
05:00
He forgives the General in this image.
この写真では彼が将軍を許しています
05:04
He risked his life as he walked up to people
彼は命を懸けて自分が殺害した
05:07
whose families he'd murdered.
親族に出向きました
05:09
In this photograph a hostile crowd in a slum surrounds him.
彼は敵意を露わにしたスラム住民に囲まれます
05:12
And Joshua remains silent
そして彼らが彼に怒りを向ける間も
05:15
as they vented their rage against him.
彼は沈黙を続けました
05:18
This image, to me, is almost like from a Shakespearean play,
この写真はシェイクスピアの作品の様です
05:22
with a man, surrounded by various influences,
一人の男性が多くの力に囲まれ
05:24
desperate to hold on to something true within himself,
自分が作りだした苦しみの中で 何か自身の真実に
05:27
in a context of great suffering that he has created himself.
しがみつこうと必死になっているのです
05:31
I was intensely moved during all this.
私は強く心動かされました
05:35
But the question is,
しかし疑問があります
05:37
does forgiveness and redemption replace justice?
容赦と贖罪は正義の代わりたり得るのか?
05:39
Joshua, in his own words, says that he does not mind
ジョシュアは自分の犯罪を裁く
05:43
standing trial for his crimes,
モンロビアの法廷に行き 被告席から
05:45
and speaks about them from soapboxes across Monrovia,
被害者を含んだ聴衆に
05:47
to an audience that often includes his victims.
証言するのは構わないと言っています
05:49
A very unlikely spokesperson for the idea of
国家と教会の分離には
05:53
separation of church and state.
とても似つかわしくない人物です
05:55
The second story I'm going to tell you about
二つ目に ユニークな
05:58
is about a group of very special fighting women
平和維持活動を行う
06:00
with rather unique peace-keeping skills.
特別な女性部隊の話をします
06:02
Liberia has been devastated by one of Africa's
リベリアはアフリカ史に残る
06:05
bloodiest civil wars,
残虐な内戦で荒んでいます
06:07
which has left more than 200,000 people dead,
この内戦は20万以上の死者を出し
06:09
thousands of women scarred by rape and crime
数多くの女性が壮絶な規模の
06:11
on a spectacular scale.
強姦や犯罪に怯えています
06:13
Liberia is now home
現在 リベリアは全員が
06:16
to an all-woman United Nations contingent
インド人女性で構成された
06:18
of Indian peacekeepers.
国連平和維持軍の拠点になっています
06:20
These women, many from small towns in India,
彼女らの多くはインドの村落出身ですが
06:23
help keep the peace, far away from home and family.
故郷 家族から遠く離れて
平和維持活動を支援しています
06:25
They use negotiation and tolerance
彼女らはなるべく武力に頼らず
06:30
more often than an armed response.
交渉や寛容を優先します
06:32
The commander told me that a woman could gauge
指揮官の話では女性は
06:34
a potentially violent situation
男性と比べると格段に
06:36
much better than men.
危険察知能力が長けているそうです
06:38
And that they were definitely capable of diffusing it non-aggressively.
実際に平和的な方法で
危険を避ける能力がありました
06:40
This man was very drunk,
この酔っぱらいの男性は
06:44
and he was very interested in my camera,
私のカメラに興味を示しましたが
06:46
until he noticed the women, who handled him
女性たちは笑みを浮かべて応対しました
06:48
with smiles, and AK-47s at the ready, of course.
AK-47をちらつかせながら
06:50
(Laughter)
(拍手)
06:53
This contingent seems to be quite lucky,
この部隊は幸いにも 今まで
06:54
and it has not sustained any casualties,
死傷者を出していません
06:57
even though dozens of peacekeepers have been killed in Liberia.
リベリアでは平和維持軍がしばしば犠牲になります
06:59
And yes, all of those people killed were male.
これまで殺されたのは全員男性でした
07:02
Many of the women are married with children,
女性隊員の多くは既婚の子持ちで
07:06
and they say the hardest part of their deployment
子供と離れて活動するのが
07:08
was being kept away from their children.
一番辛いことだと言っています
07:11
I accompanied these women on their patrols,
彼女らのパトロールに同伴して
07:14
and watched as they walked past men,
男性の前を通過するのを見ました
07:16
many who passed very lewd comments incessantly.
男性の多くは止めどもない罵声を浴びせます
07:18
And when I asked one of the women about the shock and awe response,
ある女性に動揺や恐怖がないか尋ねると
07:21
she said, "Don't worry, same thing back home.
「大丈夫よ 国でも同じだから
07:23
We know how to deal with these fellows,"
対処法なら知ってるわ」と言って
07:25
and ignored them.
男達を無視していました
07:27
In a country ravaged by violence against women,
女性への暴行が蔓延する国で
07:30
Indian peacekeepers have inspired many local women
インドの平和維持軍のおかげで多くの現地の女性が
07:32
to join the police force.
警察入隊に興味を示しました
07:35
Sometimes, when the war is over and all the film crews have left,
紛争が終わり撮影クルーが去った後に
07:37
the most inspiring stories are the ones
最も感動的な物語が
07:40
that float just beneath the radar.
浮び上がることがあります
07:42
I came back to India and nobody was interested in buying the story.
私がインドに帰った時 この物語には
誰も興味を示しませんでした
07:45
And one editor told me that she wasn't interested
ある編集者は"肉体労働物語"といった
07:49
in doing what she called "manual labor stories."
類には興味がないと言っていました
07:51
In 2007 and 2009 I did stories on the Delhi Fire Service, the DFS,
私は2007年と2009年にデリー消防庁
DFS の物語を手がけました
07:56
which, during the summer, is probably the world's most active fire department.
夏の間 DFS は恐らく世界で最も多忙です
08:01
They answer more than 5,000 calls in just two months.
彼らは2ヶ月間に5千件以上の出動要請を受けます
08:04
And all this against incredible logistical odds,
さらには猛暑や渋滞といった
08:07
like heat and traffic jams.
実働上の障害が絡んできます
08:10
Something amazing happened during this shoot.
撮影中にある素晴らしいことが起こりました
08:13
Due to a traffic jam, we were late in getting to a slum,
渋滞のため 私達はスラムへの到着が遅れました
08:15
a large slum, which had caught fire.
その巨大スラムでは火事が起きていました
08:18
As we neared, angry crowds attacked our trucks
私達がスラムに近づくと大勢の怒りに満ちた群衆が
08:21
and stoned them, by hundreds of people all over the place.
消防車に向かって石を投げたり襲いかかりました
08:24
These men were terrified,
暴徒に襲撃され
08:27
as the mob attacked our vehicle.
消防士は皆怯えていました
08:29
But nonetheless, despite the hostility,
しかし 敵対心にも臆することなく
08:32
firefighters left the vehicle and successfully fought the fire.
消防士達は消防車を離れて鎮火に成功しました
08:34
Running the gauntlet through hostile crowds,
怒れ狂う群衆の中を突き抜け
08:38
and some wearing motorbike helmets to prevent injury.
何人かは防御用にバイクのヘルメットをかぶりました
08:40
Some of the local people forcibly took away the hoses
現地の人の中には消防隊から無理矢理
08:43
from the firemen to put out the fire in their homes.
ホースを奪い鎮火を試みる人もいたほどです
08:46
Now, hundreds of homes were destroyed.
この時点で何百もの家屋が焼け崩れていました
08:49
But the question that lingered in my mind was,
しかし私の心を疑問が駆け巡りました
08:51
what causes people to destroy fire trucks
自分の家に向かう消防車を
08:55
headed to their own homes?
なぜ群衆が襲ったのか?
08:58
Where does such rage come from?
こんな憤怒はどこから生じたのだろうか?
09:00
And how are we responsible for this?
責任の所在はどこにあるのか?
09:03
45 percent of the 14 million people
デリに暮らす1400万人の45%は
09:07
who live in Delhi live in unauthorized slums,
不法占拠スラムに生活しています
09:10
which are chronically overcrowded.
ここは慢性的に人口過多となっています
09:12
They lack even the most basic amenities.
生活必需品すら欠落しています
09:15
And this is something that is common to all our big cities.
そしてこれはあらゆる大都市に共通しています
09:17
Back to the DFS. A huge chemical depot caught fire,
DFSの話に戻ります ある化学物質貯蔵所で
09:22
thousands of drums filled with petrochemicals
火事が起こり 何千という石油化学製品のドラム缶が
09:25
were blazing away and exploding all around us.
燃えさかり爆発を繰り広げていました
09:28
The heat was so intense, that hoses were used
熱気は凄まじく 防護服も
09:31
to cool down firefighters
つけずに灼熱と間近で戦う
09:33
fighting extremely close to the fire, and with no protective clothing.
消防士をホースを使って冷却するほどでした
09:35
In India we often love to complain about our government bodies.
インドでは政府機関の批判を よく好んでします
09:39
But over here, the heads of the DFS,
しかし ここでは消防隊長の
09:43
Mr. R.C. Sharman, Mr. A.K. Sharman,
R.C.シャーマンとA.K.シャーマンは
09:45
led the firefight with their men.
隊員を率いて鎮火に当たりました
09:47
Something wonderful in a country where
肉体労働が侮蔑される国でも
09:50
manual labor is often looked down upon.
こんな素晴らしいことがあるのです
09:52
(Applause)
(拍手)
09:55
Over the years, my faith in the power of storytelling has been tested.
ここ数年 私の物語を語る能力が試されてきました
09:59
And I've had very serious doubt about its efficacy,
その有効性と私自身の人々への信頼感に
10:03
and my own faith in humanity.
大きな疑念を抱いていました
10:06
However, a film we shot still airs on the National Geographic channel.
しかし 私達の映像は今なお
ナショナル・ジオグラフィックで放送されています
10:08
And when it airs I get calls from all the guys I was with
放送されると撮影した消防士から電話が入り
10:12
and they tell me that they receive hundreds of calls congratulating them.
彼らを祝福する電話が何百も受けたと話してくれます
10:16
Some of the firemen told me that they were also inspired
数人の消防士が語ってくれました―
10:20
to do better because they were so pleased
侮辱ではなく感謝の言葉を貰うようになって
10:22
to get thank-yous rather than brick bats.
一層熱心に仕事するようになった と
10:24
It seems that this story helped change perceptions about the DFS,
この物語は DFS の評判を変える一端となったようです
10:27
at least in the minds of an audience in part on televisions,
少なくとも テレビの視聴者や雑誌の読者
10:31
read magazines and whose huts aren't on fire.
そして家が燃えていない人々は感心したはずです
10:34
Sometimes, focusing on what's heroic, beautiful and dignified,
あらゆる状況で 英雄的で 美しく 威厳あるものに
10:37
regardless of the context,
的を絞って描写すれば
10:42
can help magnify these intangibles three ways,
物語の持つ次の三つの力を引出すことができます
10:44
in the protagonist of the story, in the audience,
一に 物語の主人公
二に 聴衆
10:48
and also in the storyteller.
三に 語り手 です
10:52
And that's the power of storytelling.
これが物語を語る力です
10:54
Focus on what's dignified, courageous and beautiful,
威厳 勇気 美しさに焦点を当てれば
10:56
and it grows. Thank you.
輝くのです ありがとうございます
10:58
(Applause)
(拍手)
11:01
Translator:Takahiro Shimpo
Reviewer:Akira Kan

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Ryan Lobo - Photographer
As a photographer and filmmaker, Ryan Lobo uses his exquisite lens to capture humanity and nature at their most open and vulnerable moments.

Why you should listen

During a recent shoot on the streets and beaches of Chennai, Ryan Lobo turned his lens on men and women in relaxed, after-work poses. His starkly beautiful black-and-white photos, Lobo writes, reveal what it's like “to be young, employed and alive in Chennai today, regardless of one's language, economic class or social skills.” This follows the theme of Lobo's career: breaking down stereotypes while reframing the landscape.

Since 2001, Lobo has been taking haunting stills of everything from Yakuza tattoos and the illegal organ trade to the Indian middle class. He's worked as a field producer on many nature-oriented shows for National Geographic and founded Mad Monitor Productions, a production company based in Bangalore and Washington, D.C. There's no scientific, economic or sociopolitical boundary Lobo isn't willing to cross. His intense fieldwork continues to illuminate his traveling (you can read about his journeys and see photographs on his blog) and a forthcoming book project.

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