TED2009
Jim Fallon: Exploring the mind of a killer
Jim Fallon: In mintea unui criminal
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“Ucigasii psihopati sunt personajele principale in unele seriale TV la moda, dar ce se intampla cu adevarat in mintea lor ? Jim Fallon, specialist in domeniul neurostiintei, vorbeste despre radiografii ale creierului si analize genetice care ar putea duce la descoperirea conexiunilor defectuoase care fac parte din natura (si comportamentul dobandit) criminalilor.Intr- o poveste demna de science-fiction,el ne impartaseste istoria unei familii,care face ca munca sa, sa fie extrem de personala.”
Jim Fallon - Neurobiologist
Sloan Scholar, Fulbright Fellow, Professor Emeritus of Neuroscience, Jim Fallon looks at the way nature and nurture intermingle to wire up the human brain. Full bio
Sloan Scholar, Fulbright Fellow, Professor Emeritus of Neuroscience, Jim Fallon looks at the way nature and nurture intermingle to wire up the human brain. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:18
I'm a neuroscientist, a professor at the University of California.
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Sunt specialist in domeniul neurostiintei, profesor la Universitatea din California.
00:21
And over the past 35 years,
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In ultimii 35 de ani,
00:24
I've studied behavior
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am studiat comportamentul
00:26
on the basis of everything from genes
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pornind de la gene
00:29
through neurotransmitters, dopamine, things like that,
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la neurotransmitatori, dopamina, chestii de astea,
00:31
all the way through circuit analysis.
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pana la analiza circuitelor.
00:33
So that's what I normally do.
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Deci asta fac in mod normal.
00:35
But then, for some reason,
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Dar apoi,pentru un motiv,
00:37
I got into something else, just recently.
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M-am apucat de altceva, acum recent.
00:39
And it all grew out of one of my colleagues asking me
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Si totul a pornit de cand un coleg de-al meu ma rugat
00:42
to analyze a bunch of brains
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sa analizez niste creiere
00:44
of psychopathic killers.
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ale unor ucigasii psihopati.
00:46
And so this would be the typical talk I would give.
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Si cam asta ar fi discursul tipic pe care l-as tine.
00:49
And the question is, "How do you end up with a psychopathic killer?"
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Si intrebarea e ,"Cum ajungi sa ai un ucigas psihopat?"
00:52
What I mean by psychopathic killer
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Ce vreau sa spun prin ucigas psihopat
00:54
are these people, these types of people.
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sunt acesti oameni, aceste tipuri de oameni.
00:56
And so some of the brains that I've studied
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Printre creierele studiate
00:58
are people you know about.
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sunt si creiere ale unor oameni cunoscuti de voi.
01:00
When I get the brains I don't know what I'm looking at.
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Cand primesc creierele nu stiu la ce ma uit.
01:02
It's blind experiments. They also gave me normal people and everything.
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Acestea erau experimente oarbe.Mi-au dat si creiere de oameni normali.
01:04
So I've looked at about 70 of these.
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M-am uitat la vreo 70 de creiere.
01:06
And what came up was a number of pieces of data.
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Si am obtinut niste informatii.
01:09
So we look at these sorts of things theoretically,
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Si ne uitam la aceste lucruri din perspectiva teoretica,
01:12
on the basis of genetics,
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in materie de genetica,
01:14
and brain damage, and interaction with environment,
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si de gradul de leziune al creierului, si de modul de interactiune cu mediul inconjurator,
01:17
and exactly how that machine works.
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si cum functioneaza masinaria respectiva exact.
01:19
So we're interested in exactly where in the brain,
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Si ne intereseaza unde anume in creier,
01:21
and what's the most important part of the brain.
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si care e cea mai importanta parte a creierului.
01:23
So we've been looking at this:
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Si ne uitam la asta.
01:26
the interaction of genes,
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Interactiunea genelor,
01:28
what's called epigenetic effects,
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care sunt numite efecte epigenetice,
01:30
brain damage, and environment,
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leziuni ale creierului,ale mediului inconjurator,
01:32
and how these are tied together.
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si ce legatura au acestea intre ele.
01:34
And how you end up with a psychopath, and a killer,
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Si cum ajungi sa ai un criminal, un psihopat,
01:36
depends on exactly when the damage occurs.
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depinde de cand apar leziunile.
01:39
It's really a very precisely timed thing.
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O chestie care tine foarte mult de timp.
01:42
You get different kinds of psychopaths.
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Ai feluri diferite de psihopati.
01:44
So we're going along with this. And here's, just to give you the pattern.
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Sa continuam cu asta. Si sa va dau un exemplu.
01:47
The pattern is that those people, every one of them I looked at,
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Un tipar care aparea la acesti oameni, la fiecare dintre cei studiati,
01:50
who was a murderer, and was a serial killer,
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care erau ucigasi, si care erau criminali in serie,
01:53
had damage to their orbital cortex,
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aveau leziuni in zona cortexului orbital.
01:55
which is right above the eyes, the orbits,
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Care se afla chiar deasupra ochilor, orbitelor,
01:57
and also the interior part of the temporal lobe.
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si in partea interioara a lobului temporal.
01:59
So there is the pattern that every one of them had,
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Acesta este tiparul pe care fiecare din ei il avea,
02:01
but they all were a little different too.
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dar aveau totusi si niste diferente.
02:03
They had other sorts of brain damage.
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Aveau si alt tip de leziuni cerebrale.
02:05
A key thing is that
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Un lucru esential este efectul
02:07
the major violence genes,
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genelor principale ale violentei,
02:10
it's called the MAO-A gene.
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cum ar fi gena MAO-A.
02:13
And there is a variant of this gene that is in the normal population.
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Si exista o varianta a acestei gene si la populatia normala.
02:17
Some of you have this. And it's sex-linked.
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Unii dintre voi o aveti. Tine de sex.
02:20
It's on the X chromosome. And so in this way
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E pe cromozomul X. Si astfel
02:22
you can only get it from your mother.
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il puteti mosteni doar de la mama.
02:25
And in fact this is probably why mostly men, boys,
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Si de asta probabil mai mult barbatii
02:29
are psychopathic killers,
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sunt criminali psihopati,
02:31
or are very aggressive.
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sau sunt foarte agresivi.
02:33
Because a daughter can get one X from the father,
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Deoarece o fata poate mostenii un cromozom X de la tata,
02:36
one X from the mother, it's kind of diluted out.
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si un cromozom X de la mama, si se amesteca.
02:38
But for a son, he can only get
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Dar un baiat, el poate lua
02:40
the X chromosome from his mother.
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cromozomul X doar de la mama.
02:42
So this is how it's passed from mother to son.
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In acest mod e mostenit de la mama la fiu.
02:45
And it has to do with too much brain serotonin during development,
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Si asta se intampla din cauza serotoninei in exces din creier, in timpul dezvoltarii
02:49
which is kind of interesting because serotonin
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Ceea ce e interesant deoarece serotonina
02:51
is supposed to make you calm and relaxed.
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ar trebui sa te calmeze si sa te relaxeze.
02:54
But if you have this gene, in utero
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Dar daca ai aceasta gena, in uter
02:57
your brain is bathed in this,
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creierul tau este inconjurat de serotonina.
02:59
so your whole brain becomes insensitive to serotonin,
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Si asa creierul devine insensibil la serotonina.
03:01
so it doesn't work later on in life.
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Si nu o sa mai functioneze mai tarziu de-a lungul vietii.
03:04
And I'd given this one talk in Israel,
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Am avut aceasta conversatie in Israel,
03:07
just this past year.
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chiar anul trecut.
03:09
And it does have some consequences.
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Si are niste consecinte.
03:11
Theoretically what this means
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Teoretic asta inseamna ca
03:13
is that in order to express this gene,
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pentru ca aceasta gena sa isi faca simtita prezenta
03:16
in a violent way,
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intr-un mod violent,
03:18
very early on, before puberty,
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inainte de pubertate,
03:20
you have to be involved in something that is really traumatic --
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trebuie sa fi fost implicat in ceva traumatizant,
03:23
not a little stress, not being spanked or something,
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nu un pic de stres, sau sa fi fost urecheat putin sau ceva de genu asta.
03:25
but really seeing violence,
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Ci sa fi vazut ceva violent,
03:27
or being involved in it, in 3D.
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sau sa ti se fi intamplat tie personal.
03:29
Right? That's how the mirror neuron system works.
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Da? Asa functioneaza sistemul neuronal oglinda.
03:31
And so, if you have that gene,
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Deci, daca aveti aceasta gena,
03:34
and you see a lot of violence
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si vedeti multa violenta
03:37
in a certain situation,
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intr-o anumita situatie
03:39
this is the recipe for disaster, absolute disaster.
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e o reteta pentru dezastru, dezastru absolut.
03:42
And what I think might happen in these areas of the world,
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Si ce cred ca o sa se intample in unele zone ale lumii,
03:45
where we have constant violence,
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unde exista violenta in mod constant,
03:48
you end up having generations of kids
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o sa ajungi sa ai generatii de copii
03:51
that are seeing all this violence.
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care vad atata violenta.
03:53
And if I was a young girl, somewhere in a violent area,
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Daca as fi fost o fetita , undeva intr-o zona violenta,
03:56
you know, a 14 year old, and I want to find a mate,
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de vreo 14 ani, si as vrea sa imi gasesc un prieten,
03:58
I'd find some tough guy, right, to protect me.
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Mi-as gasi un tip dur, nu? Sa ma protejeze.
04:01
Well what the problem is this tends to concentrate these genes.
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Problema e ca acest lucru aduna acest tip de gene la un loc.
04:05
And now the boys and the girls get them.
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Si acum atat baietii cat si fetele le au.
04:07
So I think after several generations,
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Si cred ca dupa cateva generatii,
04:09
and here is the idea, we really have a tinderbox.
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si asta e ideea, avem o dilema.
04:12
So that was the idea.
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Si asta era ideea.
04:14
But then my mother said to me, "I hear you've been going around talking
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Dar apoi mi-a spus, "Am auzit ca vorbesti
04:16
about psychopathic killers.
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despre criminali.
04:19
And you're talking as if you come from a normal family."
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Si vorbesti de parca tu ai proveni dintr-o familie normala."
04:22
I said, "What the hell are you talking about?"
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Eu am spus, "Despre ce naiba vorbesti ?"
04:24
She then told me about our own family tree.
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Apoi mi-a spus despre arborele genealogic al familiei nostre.
04:27
Now she blamed this on my father's side, of course.
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Si a dat vina pe rudele din partea tatalui ,desigur.
04:29
This was one of these cases, because she has no violence in her background,
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Asta era unul din cazurile alea, pentru ca ea nu a avut parte de violenta in trecut.
04:33
but my father did.
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In schimb tata da.
04:35
Well she said, "There is good news and bad news.
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A spus :" Sunt vesti bune si vesti proaste.
04:37
One of your cousins is Ezra Cornell, founder of Cornell university.
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Unul din verisorii tai este Ezra Cornell, fondatorul Universitatii Cornell.
04:40
But the bad news is that your cousin is also Lizzie Borden.
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Vestea proasta e ca si Lizzi Borden este verisoara ta.
04:43
Now I said, "Okay, so what? We have Lizzie."
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Eu am spus, "Bine si ? o avem pe Lizzi."
04:50
She goes, "No it gets worse, read this book."
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Ea zice, "Stai ca devine mai rau , citeste aceasta carte."
04:52
And here is this "Killed Strangely," and it's this historical book.
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Aici ai "Killed Strangely", care este o carte istorica.
04:54
And the first murder
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Si prima crima
04:56
of a mother by a son
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a unei mame ucisa de fiul ei ,
04:58
was my great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather.
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era stra-stra-stra-stra-bunicul meu.
05:01
Okay, so that's the first case of matricide.
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OK, acesta a fost primul caz de matricid.
05:04
And that book is very interesting. Because it's about witch trials,
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Si cartea asta e chiar interesanta.Pentru ca este vorba despre procesele cu vrajitoare,
05:07
and how people thought back then.
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si despre cum gandeau oamenii in acele timpuri.
05:09
But it doesn't stop there.
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Dar nu se opreste aici
05:11
There were seven more men, on my father's side,
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Au mai fost inca sapte oameni din partea tatalui,
05:14
starting then, Cornells, that were all murderers.
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incepand de atunci ,Cornell-si, au fost cu totii criminali.
05:18
Okay, now this gives one a little pause.
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Ok ,acum am luat o pauza.
05:21
(Laughter)
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(Rasete)
05:23
Because my father himself,
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Pentru ca chiar tatal meu,
05:25
and my three uncles, in World War II,
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si cei trei unchi ai mei, in timpul celui de-al doilea razboi mondial,
05:27
were all conscientious objectors, all pussycats.
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au refuzat sa faca stagiul militar, erau niste fricosi.
05:30
But every once in a while, like Lizzie Borden, like three times a century,
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Dar din cand in cand, precum Lizzie Borden,cam de trei ori pe secol,
05:32
and we're kind of due.
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si noua ne-a cam venit randul.
05:34
(Laughter)
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(Rasete)
05:37
So the moral of the story is:
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Morala povestii este:
05:39
people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
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Cine se stie cu musca pe caciula sa nu critice pe altul.
05:41
But more likely is this.
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Dar mai probabil e asta.
05:44
(Laughter)
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(Rasete)
05:48
And we had to take action. Now our kids found out about it.
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Si a trebuit sa luam masuri. Copiii nostri au aflat despre asta.
05:51
And they all seemed to be OK.
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Si toti par in regula.
05:53
But our grandkids are going to be kind of concerned here.
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Dar nepotii nostri o sa fie ingrijorati.
05:56
So what we've done is I've started to do PET scans
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Asa ca am inceput sa le fac tomografii
05:59
of everybody in the family.
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tuturor celor din familie.
06:01
(Laughter)
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(Rasete)
06:02
We started to do PET scans, EEGs and genetic analysis
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Am inceput sa facem tomografii,electroencefalograme, si analize genetice
06:05
to see where the bad news is.
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sa vedem unde e problema.
06:07
Now the only person -- it turns out
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Se pare ca singura persoana,
06:09
one son and one daughter, siblings,
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un fiu si o fiica, frati
06:12
didn't get along and their patterns are exactly the same.
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nu se intelegeau.Si tiparele lor sunt exact la fel.
06:14
They have the same brain, and the same EEG.
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Au acelasi creier, aceasi electroencefalograma.
06:17
And now they are close as can be.
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Si acum sunt mai apropiati ca niciodata.
06:20
But there's gonna be bad news somewhere.
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Dar pe parcurs o sa apara disensiuni.
06:22
And we don't know where it's going to pop up.
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Si nu stim unde exact.
06:24
So that's my talk.
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Acesta a fost discursul meu.
06:26
(Laughter)
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(Rasete)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jim Fallon - NeurobiologistSloan Scholar, Fulbright Fellow, Professor Emeritus of Neuroscience, Jim Fallon looks at the way nature and nurture intermingle to wire up the human brain.
Why you should listen
Jim Fallon has taught neuroscience and psychiatry grand rounds at the University of California Irvine for thirty-five years. Through research he explores the way genetic and perinatal environmental factors affect the way the brain gets built -- and then how an individual's experience further shapes his or her development. He lectures and writes on creativity, consciousness and culture, and has made key contributions to our understanding of adult stems and stroke, schizophrenia, Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.
Only lately has Fallon turned his research toward the subject of psychopaths -- particularly those who kill. With PET scans and EEGs, he's beginning to uncover the deep, underlying traits that make people violent and murderous. In his talk at TEDDIY at TED@PalmSprings, he shared a surprise discovery about his own family that prompted him to bring his work home.
Watch his followup talk from The Moth at the 2011 World Science Festival >>
Jim Fallon | Speaker | TED.com