TEDGlobal>Geneva
António Guterres: Refugees have the right to be protected
Antonio Gutereš (António Guterres): Izbeglice imaju pravo da budu zaštićene
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Visoki komesar za izbeglice UN-a, Antonio Gutereš, smatra da možemo rešiti globalnu izbegličku krizu i nudi uverljive, iznenađujuće razloge zbog kojih moramo pokušati. U razgovoru sa TED-ovim Brunom Đusanijem, Gutereš govori o istorijskim uzrocima trenutne krize i oslikava raspoloženje evropskih zemalja koje pokušavaju da skeniraju, zaštite i rasporede stotine hiljada očajnih porodica. Veća slika - Gutereš poziva na multilateralno okretanje prihvatanju i poštovanju da bi smo se oduprli grupama kao što je ID-ova anti-izbeglička propaganda i sistemu regrutovanja.
António Guterres - Designate Secretary-General of the United Nations
António Guterres is at the forefront of advocating for refugee rights around the world. Full bio
António Guterres is at the forefront of advocating for refugee rights around the world. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
Bruno Đuzani: Komesare,
hvala vam što ste došli na TED.
hvala vam što ste došli na TED.
00:12
Bruno Giussani: Commissioner,
thank you for coming to TED.
thank you for coming to TED.
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Antonio Gutereš: Zadovoljstvo mi je.
00:15
António Guterres: Pleasure.
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BĐ: Počnimo brojkom.
00:16
BG: Let's start with a figure.
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Tokom 2015, skoro milion izbeglica
i migranata je stiglo u Evropu
i migranata je stiglo u Evropu
00:18
During 2015, almost one million refugees
and migrants arrived in Europe
and migrants arrived in Europe
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iz mnogo različitih država,
00:22
from many different countries,
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naravno, iz Sirije i Iraka,
ali i iz Afganistana,
ali i iz Afganistana,
00:23
of course, from Syria and Iraq,
but also from Afghanistan
but also from Afghanistan
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Bangladeša i Eritreje i drugih zemalja.
00:26
and Bangladesh and Eritrea and elsewhere.
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Dve su različite vrste
reakcija koje se javljaju,
reakcija koje se javljaju,
00:28
And there have been reactions
of two different kinds:
of two different kinds:
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znaci dobrodošlice i ograde na granicama.
00:31
welcoming parties and border fences.
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Želim malo da to sagledam
00:35
But I want to look at it a little bit
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iz kratkoročne i dugoročne perspektive.
00:37
from the short-term
and the long-term perspective.
and the long-term perspective.
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Prvo pitanje je vrlo jednostavno.
00:40
And the first question is very simple:
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Zašto se kretanje izbeglica
tako naglo uvećalo u zadnjih šest meseci?
tako naglo uvećalo u zadnjih šest meseci?
00:43
Why has the movement of refugees
spiked so fast in the last six months?
spiked so fast in the last six months?
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AG: Pa, mislim da je, u suštini,
okidač za ovo ogromno uvećanje
okidač za ovo ogromno uvećanje
00:48
AG: Well, I think, basically,
what triggered this huge increase
what triggered this huge increase
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bila sirijska izbeglička grupa.
00:51
was the Syrian refugee group.
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Postojalo je povećano kretanje
u Evropu iz Afrike, iz Azije,
u Evropu iz Afrike, iz Azije,
00:53
There has been an increased movement
into Europe from Africa, from Asia,
into Europe from Africa, from Asia,
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ali sporo rastuće, a odjednom
se javlja to masivno uvećanje
se javlja to masivno uvećanje
00:58
but slowly growing, and all of a sudden
we had this massive increase
we had this massive increase
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u prvim mesecima ove godine.
01:01
in the first months of this year.
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Zašto?
01:04
Why? I think there are three reasons,
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Mislim da postoje tri razloga,
dva dugoročna i okidač.
dva dugoročna i okidač.
01:06
two long-term ones and the trigger.
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Oni dugoročni u vezi sa Sirijcima
01:08
The long-term ones,
in relation to Syrians,
in relation to Syrians,
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su to da je ljudima nada sve nejasnija.
01:10
is that hope is less and less
clear for people.
clear for people.
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Mislim, kad pogledaju svoju zemlju
01:17
I mean, they look at their own country
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ne vide mnogo nade
da se vrate kući u dogledno vreme,
da se vrate kući u dogledno vreme,
01:19
and they don't see much hope
to go back home,
to go back home,
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jer nema političkog rešenja,
01:22
because there is no political solution,
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tako da nema svetla na kraju tunela.
01:24
so there is no light
at the end of the tunnel.
at the end of the tunnel.
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Drugo, uslovi života
01:27
Second, the living conditions
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Sirijaca u susednim
državama se pogoršavaju.
državama se pogoršavaju.
01:29
of the Syrians in the neighboring
countries have been deteriorating.
countries have been deteriorating.
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Skoro smo imali istraživanje
sa Svetskom bankom
sa Svetskom bankom
01:32
We just had research with the World Bank,
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i 87 posto Sirijaca u Jordanu
01:34
and 87 percent of the Syrians in Jordan
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i 93 posto Sirijaca u Libanu
01:39
and 93 percent of the Syrians in Lebanon
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živi ispod nacionalnih granica siromaštva.
01:41
live below the national poverty lines.
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Samo polovina dece ide u školu,
01:44
Only half of the children go to school,
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što znači da ljudi žive veoma loše.
01:47
which means that people
are living very badly.
are living very badly.
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Ne samo da su izbeglice, van svog doma,
01:50
Not only are they refugees, out of home,
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ne samo da su prošli
kroz ono kroz šta su prošli,
kroz ono kroz šta su prošli,
01:52
not only have they suffered
what they have suffered,
what they have suffered,
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već žive u veoma,
veoma dramatičnim uslovima.
veoma dramatičnim uslovima.
01:55
but they are living in very,
very dramatic conditions.
very dramatic conditions.
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Zatim, okidač je bio trenutak
kada se, odjednom,
kada se, odjednom,
01:57
And then the trigger
was when all of a sudden,
was when all of a sudden,
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međunarodna pomoć smanjila.
02:00
international aid decreased.
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Svetski program za hranu je morao,
zbog manjka sredstava,
zbog manjka sredstava,
02:01
The World Food Programme was forced,
for lack of resources,
for lack of resources,
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da smanji za 30 posto pomoć
u hrani za sirijske izbeglice.
u hrani za sirijske izbeglice.
02:04
to cut by 30 percent food support
to the Syrian refugees.
to the Syrian refugees.
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Nije im dozvoljeno da rade,
02:07
They're not allowed to work,
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tako da u potpunosti zavise
od međunarodne pomoći,
od međunarodne pomoći,
02:09
so they are totally dependent
on international support,
on international support,
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i pomislili su: „Svet nas napušta.“
02:12
and they felt, "The world
is abandoning us."
is abandoning us."
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To je, po mom mišljenju, bio okidač.
02:15
And that, in my opinion, was the trigger.
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Odjednom je nastala navala
02:17
All of a sudden, there was a rush,
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i ljudi su počeli da idu u velikom broju
02:18
and people started to move
in large numbers
in large numbers
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i, da budem potpuno iskren,
02:20
and, to be absolutely honest,
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da sam ja bio u istoj situaciji
02:22
if I had been in the same situation
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i da sam bio dovoljno hrabar da to uradim,
02:24
and I would have been brave
enough to do it,
enough to do it,
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mislim da bih uradio istu stvar.
02:26
I think I would have done the same.
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BĐ: Ali mislim da je mnoge ljude
iznenadilo to što ne samo da je naprasno,
iznenadilo to što ne samo da je naprasno,
02:28
BG: But I think what surprised
many people is it's not only sudden,
many people is it's not only sudden,
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već nije trebalo da bude naprasno.
02:32
but it wasn't supposed to be sudden.
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Rat u Siriji se dešava već pet godina.
02:35
The war in Syria has been
happening for five years.
happening for five years.
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Milioni izbeglica su u kampovima,
selima i gradovima oko Sirije.
selima i gradovima oko Sirije.
02:37
Millions of refugees are in camps
and villages and towns around Syria.
and villages and towns around Syria.
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Vi ste sami upozorili na situaciju
02:41
You have yourself warned
about the situation
about the situation
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i na posledice sloma Libije, na primer,
02:43
and about the consequences
of a breakdown of Libya, for example,
of a breakdown of Libya, for example,
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a opet je Evropa delovala
potpuno nespremno.
potpuno nespremno.
02:46
and yet Europe looked totally unprepared.
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AG: Pa, nespremna zato što je podeljena,
02:50
AG: Well, unprepared because divided,
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a kad ste podeljeni,
ne želite da priznate realnost.
ne želite da priznate realnost.
02:53
and when you are divided,
you don't want to recognize the reality.
you don't want to recognize the reality.
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Više volite da odlažete odluke,
02:56
You prefer to postpone decisions,
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jer nemate kapacitet da ih donesete.
02:58
because you do not have
the capacity to make them.
the capacity to make them.
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Dokaz je to da je,
čak i kada se uvećanje desilo,
čak i kada se uvećanje desilo,
03:00
And the proof is that even when
the spike occurred,
the spike occurred,
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Evropa ostala podeljena
03:04
Europe remained divided
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i nije bila u mogućnosti da uspostavi
mehanizam da upravlja situacijom.
mehanizam da upravlja situacijom.
03:05
and was unable to put in place
a mechanism to manage the situation.
a mechanism to manage the situation.
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Govorite o milion ljudi.
03:11
You talk about one million people.
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Izgleda ogromno,
03:12
It looks enormous,
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ali broj stanovnika Evropske unije
je 550 miliona,
je 550 miliona,
03:14
but the population of the European Union
is 550 million people,
is 550 million people,
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što znači da govorimo o odnosu
jedan na svakih 500 Evropljana.
jedan na svakih 500 Evropljana.
03:19
which means we are talking about one
per every 2,000 Europeans.
per every 2,000 Europeans.
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Sada, u Libanu,
imamo jednu izbeglicu na tri Libanca.
imamo jednu izbeglicu na tri Libanca.
03:23
Now, in Lebanon, we have one refugee
per three Lebanese.
per three Lebanese.
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A Liban? Bori se, naravno, ali uspeva.
03:27
And Lebanon? Struggling,
of course, but it's managing.
of course, but it's managing.
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Dakle, pitanje je da li je ovo
nešto što je moglo biti rešeno
nešto što je moglo biti rešeno
03:31
So, the question is: is this something
that could have been managed
that could have been managed
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da je - ne pominjući najvažniju stvar,
03:35
if -- not mentioning the most
important thing,
important thing,
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koja bi se ticala izvornih uzroka,
03:39
which would have been
addressing the root causes,
addressing the root causes,
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ali zaboravljajući izvorne uzroke za sada,
03:41
but forgetting about root causes for now,
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gledajući na pojavu takvu kakva je -
03:43
looking at the phenomenon as it is --
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da je Evropa bila u stanju
da se solidarno udruži,
da se solidarno udruži,
03:45
if Europe were able to come
together in solidarity
together in solidarity
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da stvori prikladan kapacitet
prijema ulaznih tačaka.
prijema ulaznih tačaka.
03:49
to create an adequate
reception capacity of entry points?
reception capacity of entry points?
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Međutim, za to, države na ulaznim tačkama
treba da budu znatno potpomognute
treba da budu znatno potpomognute
03:53
But for that, the countries at entry
points need to be massively supported,
points need to be massively supported,
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i da onda skeniraju ljude
sigurnosnim proverama
sigurnosnim proverama
03:58
and then screening the people
with security checks
with security checks
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i svim drugim mehanizmima,
04:01
and all the other mechanisms,
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raspoređujući one koji dolaze
u sve evropske zemlje,
u sve evropske zemlje,
04:02
distributing those that are coming
into all European countries,
into all European countries,
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u skladu sa mogućnostima svake zemlje.
04:06
according to the possibilities
of each country.
of each country.
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Mislim, ako pogledate program premeštanja
koji je odobrila Komisija,
koji je odobrila Komisija,
04:08
I mean, if you look at
the relocation program
the relocation program
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04:10
that was approved by the Commission,
always too little too late,
always too little too late,
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stalno je nedovoljan i zakasneo,
ili Savet, nedovoljan i zakasneo -
04:14
or by the Council, too little too late --
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BĐ: Već je pred kolapsom.
04:16
BG: It's already breaking down.
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AG: Moja zemlja treba
da primi četiri hiljade.
da primi četiri hiljade.
04:17
AG: My country is supposed
to receive four thousand.
to receive four thousand.
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Četiri hiljade u Portugalu ne znači ništa.
04:20
Four thousand in Portugal means nothing.
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Tako da je ovo savršeno rešivo
ako se rešava,
ako se rešava,
04:22
So this is perfectly manageable
if it is managed,
if it is managed,
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ali, u sadašnjim okolnostima,
pritisak je na tačkama ulaska,
pritisak je na tačkama ulaska,
04:25
but in the present circumstances,
the pressure is at the point of entry,
the pressure is at the point of entry,
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a onda, kako se ljudi kreću
na ovaj haotičan način kroz Balkan,
na ovaj haotičan način kroz Balkan,
04:29
and then, as people move
in this chaotic way through the Balkans,
in this chaotic way through the Balkans,
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onda dođu u Nemačku,
Švedsku, u suštini, i Austriju.
Švedsku, u suštini, i Austriju.
04:32
then they come to Germany,
Sweden, basically, and Austria.
Sweden, basically, and Austria.
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To su tri zemlje koje,
na kraju, primaju izbeglice.
na kraju, primaju izbeglice.
04:36
They are the three countries that are,
in the end, receiving the refugees.
in the end, receiving the refugees.
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Ostatak Evrope gleda i ne preduzima mnogo.
04:39
The rest of Europe is looking
without doing much.
without doing much.
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BĐ: Dopustite da iznesem tri pitanja,
04:42
BG: Let me try to bring up
three questions,
three questions,
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glumeći malo đavoljeg advokata.
04:44
playing a bit devil's advocate.
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Pokušaću da ih postavim,
da ih učinim manje zabrinjavajućim.
da ih učinim manje zabrinjavajućim.
04:46
I'll try to ask them, make them blunt.
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Ipak, mislim da su pitanja
itekako prisutna
itekako prisutna
04:49
But I think the questions are very present
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u glavama mnogih ljudi u Evropi sada.
04:51
in the minds of many people
in Europe right now,
in Europe right now,
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Prvo se, naravno, tiče brojki.
04:53
The first, of course, is about numbers.
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Kažete da 550 miliona prema milion
nije mnogo, ali, realno gledano,
nije mnogo, ali, realno gledano,
04:55
You say 550 million versus one million
is not much, but realistically,
is not much, but realistically,
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koliko ljudi Evropa može uzeti?
05:00
how many people can Europe take?
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AG: Pa, to je pitanje koje nema odgovora,
05:02
AG: Well, that is a question
that has no answer,
that has no answer,
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jer izbeglice imaju pravo
da budu zaštićene.
da budu zaštićene.
05:05
because refugees have
the right to be protected.
the right to be protected.
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Postoji nešto što se zove
međunarodno pravo,
međunarodno pravo,
05:09
And there is such a thing
as international law,
as international law,
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tako da ne možete nikako reći:
„Uzimam 10 000 i to je to.“
„Uzimam 10 000 i to je to.“
05:13
so there is no way you can say,
"I take 10,000 and that's finished."
"I take 10,000 and that's finished."
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Podsetiću vas na jednu stvar.
05:17
I remind you of one thing:
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U Turskoj, na početku krize,
sećam se da je jedan ministar rekao,
sećam se da je jedan ministar rekao,
05:19
in Turkey, at the beginning of the crisis,
I remember one minister saying,
I remember one minister saying,
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„Turska će moći da primi
do 100 000 ljudi.“
do 100 000 ljudi.“
05:23
"Turkey will be able to receive
up to 100,000 people."
up to 100,000 people."
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Turska sada ima dva miliona trista hiljada
05:26
Turkey has now two million
three-hundred thousand
three-hundred thousand
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ili nešto tako,
ako zbrojite sve izbeglice.
ako zbrojite sve izbeglice.
05:29
or something of the sort,
if you count all refugees.
if you count all refugees.
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Tako, mislim da nije u redu reći
koliko možemo da uzmemo.
koliko možemo da uzmemo.
05:32
So I don't think it's fair to say
how many we can take.
how many we can take.
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Ono što je u redu reći jeste:
„Kako se možemo organizovati
„Kako se možemo organizovati
05:36
What it is fair to say is:
how we can we organize ourselves
how we can we organize ourselves
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da prihvatimo svoje
međunarodne odgovornosti?“
međunarodne odgovornosti?“
05:39
to assume our international
responsibilities?
responsibilities?
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A Evropa nije u mogućnosti da to uradi,
05:42
And Europe has not been able to do so,
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jer, u suštini, Evropa je podeljena
jer nema solidarnosti
jer nema solidarnosti
05:45
because basically, Europe is divided
because there is no solidarity
because there is no solidarity
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u evropskom projektu.
05:48
in the European project.
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Ne samo kad su u pitanju izbeglice;
na mnogim drugim poljima.
na mnogim drugim poljima.
05:49
And it's not only about refugees;
there are many other areas.
there are many other areas.
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Da budemo iskreni, ovo je trenutak
u kojem nam treba više Evrope
u kojem nam treba više Evrope
05:53
And let's be honest, this is the moment
in which we need more Europe
in which we need more Europe
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umesto manje Evrope.
05:56
instead of less Europe.
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Međutim, budući da javnost
sve manje veruje u evropske institucije,
sve manje veruje u evropske institucije,
05:58
But as the public less and less believes
in European institutions,
in European institutions,
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takođe je svaki put teže ubediti javnost
06:02
it is also each time more difficult
to convince the public
to convince the public
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da nam treba Evropa
da rešimo ove probleme.
da rešimo ove probleme.
06:06
that we need more Europe
to solve these problems.
to solve these problems.
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BĐ: Ovo se čini kao trenutak
06:08
BG: We seem to be at the point
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u kojem brojevi uzrokuju političke
preokrete, naročito lokalno.
preokrete, naročito lokalno.
06:10
where the numbers turn into political
shifts, particularly domestically.
shifts, particularly domestically.
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Ponovo smo to videli
ovog vikenda u Francuskoj,
ovog vikenda u Francuskoj,
06:13
We saw it again this weekend in France,
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ali iznova i iznova u mnogim zemljama:
06:15
but we have seen it over
and over in many countries:
and over in many countries:
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u Poljskoj, Danskoj, Švajcarskoj i drugde,
06:17
in Poland and in Denmark
and in Switzerland and elsewhere,
and in Switzerland and elsewhere,
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gde se raspoloženje drastično
menja zbog brojeva,
menja zbog brojeva,
06:20
where the mood changes radically
because of the numbers,
because of the numbers,
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iako isti nisu vrlo značajni
u apsolutnim brojevima.
u apsolutnim brojevima.
06:24
although they are not very significant
in absolute numbers.
in absolute numbers.
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06:30
The Prime Minister of --
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Premijer -
AG: Ali, ako mogu, na ovo -
06:32
AG: But, if I may, on these:
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Mislim, šta Evropljanin vidi kod kuće
06:34
I mean, what does a European see at home
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u selu gde nema migranata?
06:37
in a village where there are no migrants?
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Ono što Evropljanin
vidi je, na televiziji,
vidi je, na televiziji,
06:40
What a European sees is, on television,
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svakog dana, pre par meseci,
to otvara vesti svakog dana,
to otvara vesti svakog dana,
06:44
every single day, a few months ago,
opening the news every single day,
opening the news every single day,
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gomilu koja dolazi, nekontrolisanu,
06:49
a crowd coming, uncontrolled,
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krećući se od granice do granice,
06:51
moving from border to border,
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i slike na televiziji koje prikazuju
stotine ili hiljade ljudi koji se kreću.
stotine ili hiljade ljudi koji se kreću.
06:53
and the images on television
were of hundreds
were of hundreds
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06:55
or thousands of people moving.
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Mišljenje je da se niko ne brine za to -
06:57
And the idea is that nobody
is taking care of it --
is taking care of it --
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to se dešava bez ikakve vrste kontrole.
07:00
this is happening without any
kind of management.
kind of management.
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Tako je njihovo mišljenje bilo:
„Dolaze u moje selo.“
„Dolaze u moje selo.“
07:04
And so their idea was,
"They are coming to my village."
"They are coming to my village."
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Tako je nastalo
to potpuno pogrešno mišljenje
to potpuno pogrešno mišljenje
07:06
So there was this completely false idea
that Europe was being invaded
that Europe was being invaded
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da je Evropa pod invazijom
i da će se naš stil života
promeniti, kao i sve ostalo -
promeniti, kao i sve ostalo -
07:10
and our way of life is going to change,
and everything will --
and everything will --
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Problem je taj što, da se s tim ljudima
postupilo kako treba,
postupilo kako treba,
07:14
And the problem is that if this
had been properly managed,
had been properly managed,
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3865
da su ljudi bili primljeni kako treba,
07:18
if people had been properly received,
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da su imali dobrodošlicu, sklonište
i bili provereni na mestu ulaska,
i bili provereni na mestu ulaska,
07:20
welcomed, sheltered at point of entry,
screened at point of entry,
screened at point of entry,
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4715
a zatim avionom prebačeni
u različite evropske zemlje,
u različite evropske zemlje,
07:25
and the moved by plane
to different European countries,
to different European countries,
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to ne bi uplašilo ljude.
07:27
this would not have scared people.
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Ipak, nažalost, imamo mnoge ljude
koji su uplašeni,
koji su uplašeni,
07:30
But, unfortunately, we have
a lot of people scared,
a lot of people scared,
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samo zbog toga što Evropa
nije mogla da obavi posao kako treba.
nije mogla da obavi posao kako treba.
07:32
just because Europe was not able
to do the job properly.
to do the job properly.
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3023
BĐ: Ali u Nemačkoj postoje sela
07:35
BG: But there are villages in Germany
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1992
sa 300 stanovnika i 1 000 izbeglica.
07:37
with 300 inhabitants and 1,000 refugees.
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3336
Dakle, koji je vaš stav?
07:41
So, what's your position?
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1974
Kako ti ljudi treba da reaguju?
07:43
How do you imagine these people reacting?
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1967
AG: Da postoji pravilna kontrola situacije
07:45
AG: If there would be a proper
management of the situation
management of the situation
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2873
i pravilno raspoređivanje
ljudi širom Evrope,
ljudi širom Evrope,
07:48
and the proper distribution
of people all over Europe,
of people all over Europe,
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3080
uvek biste imali procenat
koji sam pomenuo,
koji sam pomenuo,
07:51
you would always have
the percentage that I mentioned:
the percentage that I mentioned:
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2976
jedan na svakih 2 000.
07:54
one per each 2,000.
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1802
Stvari se ne rešavaju ispravno
07:56
It is because things are not
properly managed
properly managed
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2269
i zato na kraju imamo situacije
07:58
that in the end we have situations
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1760
s kojima je potpuno nemoguće živeti,
a, naravno, ako imate selo -
a, naravno, ako imate selo -
08:00
that are totally impossible to live with,
and of course if you have a village --
and of course if you have a village --
163
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6417
u Libanu, postoje mnoga sela
08:06
in Lebanon, there are many villages
164
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1677
u kojima je više Sirijaca
nego Libanaca; Liban živi s tim.
nego Libanaca; Liban živi s tim.
08:08
that have more Syrians than Lebanese;
Lebanon has been living with that.
Lebanon has been living with that.
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3408
Ne tražim da se isto desi u Evropi,
08:11
I'm not asking for the same
to happen in Europe,
to happen in Europe,
166
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2267
da sva evropska sela imaju
više izbeglica nego stanovnika.
više izbeglica nego stanovnika.
08:14
for all European villages to have
more refugees than inhabitants.
more refugees than inhabitants.
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3187
Ono što tražim jeste da Evropa
uradi posao kako treba
uradi posao kako treba
08:17
What I am asking is for Europe
to do the job properly,
to do the job properly,
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3055
i da bude u stanju
da se organizuje da primi ljude
da se organizuje da primi ljude
08:20
and to be able to organize itself
to receive people
to receive people
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3421
kao što su druge zemlje u svetu
to morale u prošlosti.
to morale u prošlosti.
08:23
as other countries in the world
were forced to do in the past.
were forced to do in the past.
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2928
BĐ: Ako pogledate globalnu situaciju,
ne samo Evropu -
ne samo Evropu -
08:26
BG: So, if you look at the global
situation not only at Europe --
situation not only at Europe --
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(Aplauz) BĐ: Da!
08:29
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
08:31
BG: Yes!
173
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1151
08:32
(Applause)
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4634
BĐ: Ako pogledate globalnu situaciju,
dakle, ne samo Evropu,
dakle, ne samo Evropu,
08:36
BG: If you look at the global situation,
so, not only at Europe,
so, not only at Europe,
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3021
znam da možete napraviti
dug spisak zemalja
dug spisak zemalja
08:39
I know you can make
a long list of countries
a long list of countries
176
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2104
koje baš ne prihvataju odgovornost,
08:42
that are not really stepping up,
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3123
ali me više interesuje druga strana -
08:45
but I'm more interested
in the other part --
in the other part --
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2448
da li postoji neko ko radi pravu stvar?
08:47
is there somebody
who's doing the right thing?
who's doing the right thing?
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2190
08:50
AG: Well, 86 percent
of the refugees in the world
of the refugees in the world
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2431
AG: Pa, 86 posto izbeglica u svetu
je u zemljama u razvoju.
08:52
are in the developing world.
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2055
Ako pogledate zemlje kao što je Etiopija -
08:54
And if you look at
countries like Ethiopia --
countries like Ethiopia --
182
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3320
08:58
Ethiopia has received
more than 600,000 refugees.
more than 600,000 refugees.
183
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3777
Etiopija je primila
više od 600 000 izbeglica.
više od 600 000 izbeglica.
Sve granice u Etiopiji su otvorene.
09:02
All the borders in Ethiopia are open.
184
530486
2016
09:05
And they have, as a policy,
185
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1868
Njihova politika je,
a nazivaju tu politiku „ljudi za ljude“,
da svaka izbeglica treba biti primljena.
da svaka izbeglica treba biti primljena.
09:07
they call the "people to people" policy
that every refugee should be received.
that every refugee should be received.
186
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4096
Imaju ljude iz Južnog Sudana,
iz Sudana, iz Somalije.
iz Sudana, iz Somalije.
09:11
And they have South Sudanese,
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1579
09:12
they have Sudanese, they have Somalis.
188
540919
2008
Imaju sve susede.
09:14
They have all the neighbors.
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1857
Imaju Eritrejce.
09:16
They have Eritreans.
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544832
1764
I, generalno,
09:18
And, in general,
191
546929
1295
afričke zemlje su izuzetno gostoljubive
prema izbeglicama,
prema izbeglicama,
09:20
African countries are extremely
welcoming of refugees coming,
welcoming of refugees coming,
192
548248
4180
a rekao bih da smo na Bliskom istoku
09:24
and I would say that in the Middle East
193
552452
2572
i u Aziji uočili tendenciju
da granice budu otvorene.
da granice budu otvorene.
09:27
and in Asia, we have seen a tendency
for borders to be open.
for borders to be open.
194
555048
5193
Sada uočavamo neke probleme
u vezi sa sirijskom situacijom,
u vezi sa sirijskom situacijom,
09:32
Now we see some problems
with the Syrian situation,
with the Syrian situation,
195
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3365
budući da je sirijska situacija izrasla
i u veliku bezbednosnu krizu,
i u veliku bezbednosnu krizu,
09:35
as the Syrian situation evolved
into also a major security crisis,
into also a major security crisis,
196
563654
4257
ali istina je da su dugo vremena
09:39
but the truth is that for a large period,
197
567935
2093
sve granice na Bliskom istoku
bile otvorene.
bile otvorene.
09:42
all borders in the Middle East were open.
198
570052
1992
Za Avganistance su, na primer,
09:44
The truth is that for Afghans,
199
572068
1452
granice Pakistana i Irana
bile otvorene za, u to vreme,
bile otvorene za, u to vreme,
09:45
the borders of Pakistan and Iran
were open for, at the time,
were open for, at the time,
200
573544
2833
6 miliona Avganistanaca koji su došli.
09:48
six million Afghans that came.
201
576401
1893
Tako, rekao bih da je i danas
trend u zemljama u razvoju
trend u zemljama u razvoju
09:50
So I would say that even today,
the trend in the developing world
the trend in the developing world
202
578318
3821
09:54
has been for borders to be open.
203
582163
2326
da granice budu otvorene.
Trend u razvijenim zemljama
je da ova pitanja postaju sve složenija,
je da ova pitanja postaju sve složenija,
09:56
The trend in the developed world
is for these questions to become
is for these questions to become
204
584513
4412
10:00
more and more complex,
205
588949
2106
naročito kada je u javnom mnjenju prisutna
10:03
especially when there is,
in the public opinion,
in the public opinion,
206
591079
2571
mešavina rasprava
između zaštite izbeglica s jedne strane
između zaštite izbeglica s jedne strane
10:05
a mixture of discussions between refugee
protections on one side
protections on one side
207
593674
5083
i sigurnosnih pitanja - po mom mišljenju,
pogrešno protumačenih - sa druge.
pogrešno protumačenih - sa druge.
10:10
and security questions -- in my opinion,
misinterpreted -- on the other side.
misinterpreted -- on the other side.
208
598781
3639
BĐ: Vratićemo se i na to,
10:14
BG: We'll come back to that too,
209
602444
1541
ali pomenuli ste smanjenje
finansiranja i vaučera
finansiranja i vaučera
10:16
but you mentioned the cutting
of funding and the vouchers
of funding and the vouchers
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604009
2740
iz Svetskog programa za hranu.
10:18
from the World Food Programme.
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606773
1460
To odražava generalno
smanjeno finansiranje organizacija
smanjeno finansiranje organizacija
10:20
That reflects the general underfunding
of the organizations
of the organizations
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608257
2833
koje rade na ovim problemima.
10:23
working on these issues.
213
611114
2316
10:26
Now that the world seems to have woken up,
214
614155
2555
Sada kada se čini da se svet probudio,
dobijate li više novca i više pomoći,
10:28
are you getting more funding
and more support,
and more support,
215
616734
2191
ili je još uvek isto?
10:30
or it's still the same?
216
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1413
AG: Dobijamo više pomoći.
10:32
AG: We are getting more support.
217
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1799
Rekao bih da se približavamo
nivoima od prošle godine.
nivoima od prošle godine.
10:34
I would say that we are coming
close to the levels of last year.
close to the levels of last year.
218
622209
4433
Tokom leta je bilo mnogo gore.
10:39
We were much worse during the summer.
219
627100
2349
Međutim, to je definitivno nedovoljno
10:41
But that is clearly insufficient
to address the needs of the people
to address the needs of the people
220
629799
3858
da se uhvatimo u koštac sa potrebama ljudi
i potrebama zemalja koje pomažu ljudima.
i potrebama zemalja koje pomažu ljudima.
10:45
and address the needs of the countries
221
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1890
10:47
that are supporting the people.
222
635595
1499
A ovde postoji osnovni pregled
kriterijuma, ciljeva,
kriterijuma, ciljeva,
10:49
And here we have a basic review
of the criteria, the objectives,
of the criteria, the objectives,
223
637118
5926
prioriteta razvojne saradnje
koji su potrebni.
koji su potrebni.
10:55
the priorities of development
cooperation that is required.
cooperation that is required.
224
643068
2792
Na primer, Liban i Jordan
su zemlje srednjih prihoda.
su zemlje srednjih prihoda.
10:57
For instance, Lebanon and Jordan
are middle-income countries.
are middle-income countries.
225
645884
3003
Zbog toga što su zemlje srednjih prihoda,
11:00
Because they are middle-income countries,
226
648911
1974
ne mogu dobiti povoljne kredite
ili grantove od Svetske banke.
ili grantove od Svetske banke.
11:02
they cannot receive soft loans
or grants from the World Bank.
or grants from the World Bank.
227
650909
2911
Danas to nema nikakvog smisla,
11:05
Now, today this doesn't make any sense,
228
653844
2199
zato što obezbeđuju globalno javno dobro.
11:08
because they are providing
a global public good.
a global public good.
229
656067
2329
Imaju milione izbeglica tamo
11:10
They have millions of refugees there,
230
658420
1810
i, da budem iskren,
oni su stubovi stabilnosti u regionu,
oni su stubovi stabilnosti u regionu,
11:12
and to be honest, they are pillars
of stability in the region,
of stability in the region,
231
660254
3490
sa svim teškoćama koje imaju
11:15
with all the difficulties they face,
232
663768
1738
i prva linija odbrane
naše zajedničke sigurnosti.
naše zajedničke sigurnosti.
11:17
and the first line of defense
of our collective security.
of our collective security.
233
665530
2690
Tako, nema smisla
da te zemlje nisu prvi prioritet
da te zemlje nisu prvi prioritet
11:20
So it doesn't make sense
234
668244
1163
11:21
that these countries
are not a first priority
are not a first priority
235
669431
2143
u politikama razvojne saradnje.
11:23
in development cooperation policies.
236
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1745
A nisu.
11:25
And they are not.
237
673367
1159
I ne samo da izbeglice žive
u veoma dramatičnim okolnostima
u veoma dramatičnim okolnostima
11:26
And not only do the refugees live
in very dramatic circumstances
in very dramatic circumstances
238
674550
3402
u tim zemljama,
11:29
inside those countries,
239
677976
1230
nego i same lokalne zajednice trpe,
11:31
but the local communities
themselves are suffering,
themselves are suffering,
240
679230
2826
zato što su plate smanjene,
11:34
because salaries went down,
241
682080
2256
zato što je više nezaposlenih,
11:37
because there are more unemployed,
242
685491
1647
zato što su cene uopšte
i cene zakupa povećane.
i cene zakupa povećane.
11:39
because prices and rents went up.
243
687162
2400
I, naravno, ako pogledate današnje stanje
11:42
And, of course, if you look
at today's situation
at today's situation
244
690238
3944
pokazatelja u tim državama,
11:46
of the indicators in these countries,
245
694206
3098
jasno je da, naročito njihovi
siromašni slojevi stanovništva
siromašni slojevi stanovništva
11:49
it is clear that, especially
their poor groups of the population,
their poor groups of the population,
246
697328
5483
žive sve lošije zbog krize
s kojom se suočavaju.
s kojom se suočavaju.
11:54
are living worse and worse
because of the crisis they are facing.
because of the crisis they are facing.
247
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3235
BĐ: Ko treba da obezbedi tu pomoć?
11:58
BG: Who should be providing this support?
248
706094
1984
Svaka zemlja ponaosob,
međunarodne organizacije, Evropska unija?
međunarodne organizacije, Evropska unija?
12:00
Country by country, international
organizations, the European Union?
organizations, the European Union?
249
708102
3321
Ko treba da osigura tu pomoć?
12:03
Who should be coming up with this support?
250
711447
2048
AG: Treba da udružimo sve snage.
12:05
AG: We need to join all efforts.
251
713519
1545
Jasno je da je bilateralna saradnja
od suštinske važnosti.
od suštinske važnosti.
12:07
It's clear that bilateral
cooperation is essential.
cooperation is essential.
252
715088
2545
Jasno je da je
multilateralna saradnja ključna.
multilateralna saradnja ključna.
12:09
It's clear that multilateral
cooperation is essential.
cooperation is essential.
253
717657
2763
Jasno je da međunarodne finansijske
institucije treba da budu fleksibilne
institucije treba da budu fleksibilne
12:12
It's clear that international financial
institutions should have flexibility
institutions should have flexibility
254
720444
3595
da bi bile u mogućnosti da još više ulažu
u pomoć ovim zemljama.
u pomoć ovim zemljama.
12:16
in order to be able to invest
more massively
more massively
255
724063
2719
12:18
in support to these countries.
256
726806
1526
Treba da kombinujemo sva sredstva
i da shvatimo da danas,
i da shvatimo da danas,
12:20
We need to combine all the instruments
and to understand that today,
and to understand that today,
257
728356
3246
u otegnutim situacijama,
u određenom trenutku,
u određenom trenutku,
12:23
in protracted situations,
at a certain moment,
at a certain moment,
258
731626
2446
da nema više smisla praviti razliku
12:26
that it doesn't make sense anymore
to make a distinction
to make a distinction
259
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2670
između humanitarne i razvojne pomoći
ili procesa razvoja.
ili procesa razvoja.
12:28
between humanitarian aid
and development aid
and development aid
260
736790
3649
12:32
or development processes.
261
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2349
Zato što govorite o deci u školama,
12:34
Because you are talking
about children in school,
about children in school,
262
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3603
govorite o zdravlju,
12:38
you are talking about health,
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govorite o infrastrukturi
koja je prenatrpana.
koja je prenatrpana.
12:39
you are talking about infrastructure
that is overcrowded.
that is overcrowded.
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Govorite o stvarima
koje zahtevaju dugoročnu perspektivu,
koje zahtevaju dugoročnu perspektivu,
12:42
You are talking about things
that require a long-term perspective,
that require a long-term perspective,
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perspektivu razvoja,
12:46
a development perspective
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a ne samo perspektivu
hitne humanitarne pomoći.
hitne humanitarne pomoći.
12:47
and not only an emergency
humanitarian aid perspective.
humanitarian aid perspective.
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BĐ: Želeo bih vaš komentar na nešto
što je jutros bilo u novinama.
što je jutros bilo u novinama.
12:51
BG: I would like your comment on something
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12:53
that was in newspapers this morning.
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To je izjava trenutno vodećeg kandidata
12:54
It is a statement made
by the current front-runner
by the current front-runner
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13:00
for the Republican nomination
for US President, Donald Trump.
for US President, Donald Trump.
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republikanaca za predsednika SAD-a,
Donalda Trampa.
Donalda Trampa.
13:03
Yesterday, he said this.
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Juče je rekao ovo.
(Smeh)
13:05
(Laughter)
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Ne, poslušajte ovo. Zanimljivo je.
13:06
No, listen to this. It's interesting.
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Citiram: „Pozivam na totalnu
i kompletnu zabranu
i kompletnu zabranu
13:07
I quote: "I am calling for a total
and complete shutdown
and complete shutdown
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ulaska muslimana u SAD,
13:10
of Muslims entering the US,
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dok predstavnici naše zemlje
ne shvate šta se događa.“
ne shvate šta se događa.“
13:12
until our country's representatives
can figure out what's going on."
can figure out what's going on."
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Kako reagujete na to?
13:17
How do you react to that?
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AG: Pa, ne radi se samo o Donaldu Trampu.
13:18
AG: Well, it's not only Donald Trump.
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Videli smo kako mnogi ljudi širom sveta
13:20
We have seen several people
around the world
around the world
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sa političkom odgovornošću
govore, na primer,
govore, na primer,
13:23
with political responsibility
saying, for instance,
saying, for instance,
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2413
da muslimanske izbeglice
ne treba primiti.
ne treba primiti.
13:25
that Muslims refugees
should not be received.
should not be received.
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2158
13:28
And the reason why they say this
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3500
Razlog zbog kojeg to govore
je to što misle da radeći ili govoreći to
štite sigurnost svojih zemalja.
štite sigurnost svojih zemalja.
13:31
is because they think
that by doing or saying this,
that by doing or saying this,
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799632
3099
13:34
they are protecting
the security of their countries.
the security of their countries.
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2582
Ja sam bio u vladi.
13:37
Now, I've been in government.
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Dobro razumem potrebu vlada
13:38
I am very keen on the need for governments
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da zaštite sigurnost
svojih zemalja i svog naroda.
svojih zemalja i svog naroda.
13:41
to protect the security of their countries
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2445
13:43
and their people.
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1151
Međutim, ako kažete, na taj način,
13:44
But if you say, like that,
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u SAD-u ili u bilo kojoj evropskoj zemlji:
13:47
in the US or in any European country,
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2506
„Zatvorićemo vrata
muslimanskim izbeglicama,“
muslimanskim izbeglicama,“
13:50
"We are going to close our doors
to Muslim refugees,"
to Muslim refugees,"
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3946
ono što govorite je najbolja moguća pomoć
13:54
what you are saying
is the best possible help
is the best possible help
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3112
propagandi terorističkih organizacija,
13:57
for the propaganda
of terrorist organizations.
of terrorist organizations.
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jer ono što govorite -
14:00
Because what you are saying --
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1612
(Aplauz)
14:01
(Applause)
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829782
5575
Ono što govorite će čuti
svi muslimani u vašoj zemlji,
svi muslimani u vašoj zemlji,
14:07
What you are saying will be heard
by all the Muslims in your own country,
by all the Muslims in your own country,
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a to će prokrčiti put regrutovanju
14:12
and it will pave the way
for the recruitment
for the recruitment
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2073
i mehanizmima koje, kroz tehnologiju,
14:15
and the mechanisms that,
through technology,
through technology,
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2621
ID, Al Nusra, Al Kaida
i sve te druge grupe
i sve te druge grupe
14:17
Daesh and al-Nusra, al-Qaeda,
and all those other groups
and all those other groups
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3855
danas uvode u naša društva.
14:21
are today penetrating in our societies.
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849609
2398
To im samo govori:
„U pravu ste, mi smo protiv vas.“
„U pravu ste, mi smo protiv vas.“
14:24
And it's just telling them,
"You are right, we are against you."
"You are right, we are against you."
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852031
4121
Tako, očigledno, to stvara
u društvima koja su multietnička,
u društvima koja su multietnička,
14:28
So obviously, this is creating
in societies that are all multiethnic,
in societies that are all multiethnic,
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6390
multireligiozna, multikulturalna,
14:34
multi-religious, multicultural,
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862590
1749
to stvara situaciju u kojoj je, zaista,
14:36
this is creating a situation
in which, really,
in which, really,
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864363
3372
mnogo lakše da propaganda
ovih terorističkih organizacija
ovih terorističkih organizacija
14:39
it is much easier for the propaganda
of these terrorist organizations
of these terrorist organizations
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867759
3390
bude delotvorna u regrutovanju ljudi
za teroristička dejstva
za teroristička dejstva
14:43
to be effective in recruiting
people for terror acts
people for terror acts
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5113
u zemljama u kojima se
ovakve vrste rečenica izjavljuju.
ovakve vrste rečenica izjavljuju.
14:48
within the countries where these kinds
of sentences are expressed.
of sentences are expressed.
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876310
3914
BĐ: Da li su nedavni napadi
u Parizu i reakcije na iste
u Parizu i reakcije na iste
14:52
BG: Have the recent attacks in Paris
and the reactions to them
and the reactions to them
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880248
2983
učinili vaš posao težim?
14:55
made your job more difficult?
310
883255
1983
AG: Nesumnjivo.
14:57
AG: Undoubtedly.
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885262
1359
BĐ: U kom smislu?
14:58
BG: In what sense?
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886645
1461
15:00
AG: In the sense that, I mean,
for many people the first reaction
for many people the first reaction
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888992
4316
AG: U smislu da, mislim,
kod mnogih ljudi je prva reakcija
kod mnogih ljudi je prva reakcija
15:05
in relation to these kinds of terrorist
attacks is: close all borders --
attacks is: close all borders --
314
893332
3420
na ovaj vid terorističkih napada
je zatvaranje svih granica -
je zatvaranje svih granica -
15:08
not understanding that the terrorist
problem in Europe is largely homegrown.
problem in Europe is largely homegrown.
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896776
4445
ne shvatajući da je terorizam
u Evropi u velikoj meri domaći.
u Evropi u velikoj meri domaći.
Imamo hiljade i hiljade
evropskih boraca u Siriji i u Iraku,
evropskih boraca u Siriji i u Iraku,
15:13
We have thousands and thousands
of European fighters in Syria and in Iraq,
of European fighters in Syria and in Iraq,
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901245
4973
tako da to nije nešto što se rešava
samo nepuštanjem Sirijaca da uđu.
samo nepuštanjem Sirijaca da uđu.
15:18
so this is not something that you solve
by just not allowing Syrians to come in.
by just not allowing Syrians to come in.
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906242
4230
I, moram da kažem, uveren sam
15:22
And I must say, I am convinced
318
910496
2456
15:24
that the passport that appeared,
319
912976
4172
da je pasoš koji se pojavio,
koji je, verujem, ostavljen
od strane osobe koja se -
od strane osobe koja se -
15:29
I believe, was put
by the person who has blown --
by the person who has blown --
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917172
3747
BĐ: - raznela, da.
15:32
BG: -- himself up, yeah.
321
920943
1531
15:34
AG: [I believe] it was on purpose,
322
922498
1911
AG: Verujem da je to bilo namerno,
zato što je deo strategije
ID-a usmeren protiv izbeglica,
ID-a usmeren protiv izbeglica,
15:36
because part of the strategies
of Daesh is against refugees,
of Daesh is against refugees,
323
924433
3618
zato što vide izbeglice kao ljude
koji treba da budu sa kalifatom,
koji treba da budu sa kalifatom,
15:40
because they see refugees as people
that should be with the caliphate
that should be with the caliphate
324
928075
3413
a beže krstašima.
15:43
and are fleeing to the crusaders.
325
931512
2452
15:45
And I think that is part of Daesh's
strategy to make Europe react,
strategy to make Europe react,
326
933988
4063
Mislim da je deo strategije ID-a
da natera Evropu da reaguje,
da natera Evropu da reaguje,
zatvarajući granice
muslimanskim izbeglicama
muslimanskim izbeglicama
15:50
closing its doors to Muslim refugees
327
938075
2391
i odnoseći se neprijateljski
prema muslimanima u Evropi,
prema muslimanima u Evropi,
15:52
and having an hostility
towards Muslims inside Europe,
towards Muslims inside Europe,
328
940490
3691
samo olakšavajući rad ID-a.
15:56
exactly to facilitate Daesh's work.
329
944205
3522
Moje duboko uverenje
je da kretanje izbeglica nije bilo
je da kretanje izbeglica nije bilo
15:59
And my deep belief is that
it was not the refugee movement
it was not the refugee movement
330
947751
4508
okidač za terorizam.
16:04
that triggered terrorism.
331
952283
1681
Mislim, rekao sam već,
16:05
I think, as I said,
332
953988
1160
da je u suštini terorizam u Evropi
danas domaći pokret
danas domaći pokret
16:07
essentially terrorism in Europe
is today a homegrown movement
is today a homegrown movement
333
955172
3527
u odnosu na globalnu situaciju
sa kojom se suočavamo,
sa kojom se suočavamo,
16:10
in relation to the global situation
that we are facing,
that we are facing,
334
958723
3295
a upravo treba da dokažemo
tim grupama da nisu u pravu
tim grupama da nisu u pravu
16:14
and what we need is exactly
to prove these groups wrong,
to prove these groups wrong,
335
962042
4420
primajući i delotvorno integrišući
16:18
by welcoming and integrating effectively
336
966486
3473
one koji dolaze iz tog dela sveta.
16:21
those that are coming
from that part of the world.
from that part of the world.
337
969983
2403
Takođe smatram da je, u velikoj meri,
16:24
And another thing that I believe
is that to a large extent,
is that to a large extent,
338
972410
3016
ono za šta danas plaćamo cenu u Evropi
16:27
what we are today paying for in Europe
339
975450
2463
neuspeh modela integracije
16:29
is the failures of integration models
340
977937
2170
koji nisu uspeli u '60-im,' 70-im, '80-im,
16:32
that didn't work in the '60s,
in the '70s, in the '80s,
in the '70s, in the '80s,
341
980131
3141
u vezi sa velikim migracionim tokovima
koji su se odvijali tada
koji su se odvijali tada
16:35
in relation to big migration flows
that took place at that time
that took place at that time
342
983296
2971
i proizveli ono što je danas
16:38
and generated what is today
in many of the people, for instance,
in many of the people, for instance,
343
986291
3789
kod mnogih ljudi,
na primer, druge generacije,
na primer, druge generacije,
16:42
of the second generation of communities,
344
990104
2743
stanje ispunjeno
osećajem marginalizovanosti,
osećajem marginalizovanosti,
16:44
a situation of feeling marginalized,
345
992871
4131
nedostatkom posla,
16:49
having no jobs,
346
997026
1390
neprikladnim obrazovanjem,
16:50
having improper education,
347
998440
1539
životom u nekim od kvartova
koji nisu prikladno snabdeveni
koji nisu prikladno snabdeveni
16:52
living in some of the neighborhoods
that are not adequately provided
that are not adequately provided
348
1000003
5225
javnom infrastrukturom.
16:57
by public infrastructure.
349
1005252
2242
Za tu vrstu nelagode, nekad i besa,
16:59
And this kind of uneasiness,
sometimes even anger,
sometimes even anger,
350
1007518
4833
koja postoji kod te druge generacije
17:04
that exists in this second generation
351
1012375
2469
u velikoj meri je zaslužan
neuspeh politika integracije,
neuspeh politika integracije,
17:06
is largely due to the failure
of integration policies,
of integration policies,
352
1014868
3023
neuspeh onoga što je trebalo
da bude mnogo veće investiranje
da bude mnogo veće investiranje
17:09
to the failure of what should have been
a much stronger investment
a much stronger investment
353
1017915
3881
u stvaranje uslova da ljudi žive zajedno
i poštuju jedni druge.
i poštuju jedni druge.
17:13
in creating the conditions for people
to live together and respect each other.
to live together and respect each other.
354
1021820
4388
Za mene je očigledno -
17:18
For me it is clear.
355
1026232
1308
(Aplauz)
17:19
(Applause)
356
1027564
3241
Za mene je očigledno da će sva društva
biti multietnička, multikulturalna,
biti multietnička, multikulturalna,
17:22
For me it is clear that all societies
will be multiethnic, multicultural,
will be multiethnic, multicultural,
357
1030829
3870
multireligiozna u budućnosti.
17:26
multi-religious in the future.
358
1034723
1626
Pokušati to izbeći je,
po mom mišljenju, nemoguće.
po mom mišljenju, nemoguće.
17:28
To try to avoid it is,
in my opinion, impossible.
in my opinion, impossible.
359
1036666
3238
Za mene je dobra stvar što će biti tako,
17:32
And for me it's a good thing
that they will be like that,
that they will be like that,
360
1040420
2900
ali takođe znam da je,
da bi to funkcionisalo na pravi način,
da bi to funkcionisalo na pravi način,
17:35
but I also recognize that,
for that to work properly,
for that to work properly,
361
1043344
3378
potrebno ogromno investiranje
u socijalnu koheziju vlastitih društava.
u socijalnu koheziju vlastitih društava.
17:38
you need a huge investment
362
1046746
1956
17:40
in the social cohesion
of your own societies.
of your own societies.
363
1048726
2436
17:43
And Europe, to a large extent,
failed in that investment
failed in that investment
364
1051186
3674
A Evropa, u velikoj meri,
nije uspela u tom investiranju
nije uspela u tom investiranju
u proteklih par decenija.
17:46
in the past few decades.
365
1054884
3213
BĐ: Pitanje - odlazite sa funkcije
na kraju godine, nakon 10 godina.
na kraju godine, nakon 10 godina.
17:50
BG: Question: You are stepping down
from your job at the end of the year,
from your job at the end of the year,
366
1058121
3996
17:54
after 10 years.
367
1062141
1533
Ako se osvrnete na 2005. godinu,
17:55
If you look back at 2005,
368
1063698
1437
kad ste ušli u tu kancelariju
po prvi put, šta vidite?
po prvi put, šta vidite?
17:57
when you entered that office
for the first time, what do you see?
for the first time, what do you see?
369
1065159
3075
AG: Pa, vidite,
18:01
AG: Well, look:
370
1069491
1855
u 2005. godini, pomagali smo
da se milion ljudi vrati kući
da se milion ljudi vrati kući
18:04
In 2005, we were helping
one million people go back home
one million people go back home
371
1072466
5377
sigurno i dostojanstveno,
jer su sukobi bili okončani.
jer su sukobi bili okončani.
18:09
in safety and dignity,
because conflicts had ended.
because conflicts had ended.
372
1077867
3048
Prošle godine, pomogli smo 124 000 ljudi.
18:13
Last year, we helped 124,000.
373
1081692
2665
U 2005. godini,
imali smo oko 38 miliona ljudi
imali smo oko 38 miliona ljudi
18:17
In 2005, we had about 38 million people
displaced by conflict in the world.
displaced by conflict in the world.
374
1085659
5088
raseljenih zbog sukoba u svetu.
Danas imamo više od 60 miliona.
18:22
Today, we have more than 60 million.
375
1090771
2471
18:26
At that time, we had had, recently,
376
1094052
3067
U to vreme, imali smo, nedavno,
neke sukobe koji su razrešeni.
18:29
some conflicts that were solved.
377
1097143
2679
Sada vidimo umnožavanje novih sukoba
18:32
Now, we see a multiplication
of new conflicts
of new conflicts
378
1100393
2307
a stari sukobi nisu iščezli -
18:34
and the old conflicts never died:
379
1102724
1841
Avganistan, Somalija,
Demokratska Republika Kongo.
Demokratska Republika Kongo.
18:36
Afghanistan, Somalia,
Democratic Republic of Congo.
Democratic Republic of Congo.
380
1104589
3356
Jasno je da je svet danas
mnogo opasniji nego što je bio.
mnogo opasniji nego što je bio.
18:39
It is clear that the world today
is much more dangerous than it was.
is much more dangerous than it was.
381
1107969
4056
Jasno je da je kapacitet
međunarodne zajednice
međunarodne zajednice
18:44
It is clear that the capacity
of the international community
of the international community
382
1112049
2844
da spreči sukobe i razreši ih na vreme,
18:46
to prevent conflicts
and to timely solve them,
and to timely solve them,
383
1114917
2876
nažalost, mnogo gori
nego što je bio pre 10 godina.
nego što je bio pre 10 godina.
18:49
is, unfortunately, much worse
than what it was 10 years ago.
than what it was 10 years ago.
384
1117817
4154
Nema jasnih odnosa snaga u svetu,
18:53
There are no clear
power relations in the world,
power relations in the world,
385
1121995
2745
nema globalnih mehanizama
upravljanja koji deluju,
upravljanja koji deluju,
18:56
no global governance mechanisms that work,
386
1124764
2493
što znači da živimo u situaciji
18:59
which means that we live in a situation
387
1127281
2779
u kojoj su nekažnjivost i nepredvidivost
na putu da prevladaju,
na putu da prevladaju,
19:02
where impunity and unpredictability
tend to prevail, and that means
tend to prevail, and that means
388
1130084
4926
a to znači da sve više ljudi pati,
19:07
that more and more people suffer,
389
1135034
2415
to jest oni koji su raseljeni
usled sukoba.
usled sukoba.
19:09
namely those that are
displaced by conflicts.
displaced by conflicts.
390
1137473
2393
BĐ: U američkoj politici postoji tradicija
19:11
BG: It's a tradition in American politics
391
1139890
2006
da kada predsednik napusti
Ovalnu kancelariju poslednji put,
Ovalnu kancelariju poslednji put,
19:13
that when a President leaves
the Oval Office for the last time,
the Oval Office for the last time,
392
1141920
3630
ostavi rukom napisanu poruku
na stolu svom nasledniku
na stolu svom nasledniku
19:17
he leaves a handwritten note
on the desk for his successor
on the desk for his successor
393
1145574
2777
koji ulazi nekoliko sati kasnije.
19:20
that walks in a couple of hours later.
394
1148375
2101
Ako biste morali napisati poruku
svom nasledniku, Filipu Grandiju,
svom nasledniku, Filipu Grandiju,
19:22
If you had to write such a note
to your successor, Filippo Grandi,
to your successor, Filippo Grandi,
395
1150500
3185
šta biste napisali?
19:25
what would you write?
396
1153709
1152
AG: Pa, mislim da ne bih napisao
nikakvu poruku.
nikakvu poruku.
19:26
AG: Well, I don't think
I would write any message.
I would write any message.
397
1154885
3064
Jedna od užasnih stvari
kada neko napušta kancelariju
kada neko napušta kancelariju
19:29
You know, one of the terrible things
when one leaves an office
when one leaves an office
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jeste pokušaj da postane sufler,
19:32
is to try to become the backseat driver,
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stalno govoreći onom novom šta da radi.
19:35
always telling the new one what to do.
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Tako, to neću uraditi.
19:38
So that, I will not do.
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Kad bih morao nešto da mu kažem,
19:40
If I had to say something to him,
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bilo bi to: „Budi svoj i daj sve od sebe.“
19:42
it would be, "Be yourself,
and do your best."
and do your best."
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BĐ: Komesare, hvala vam
za posao koji radite.
za posao koji radite.
19:44
BG: Commissioner, thank you
for the job you do.
for the job you do.
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Hvala vam što ste došli na TED.
19:47
Thank you for coming to TED.
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(Aplauz)
19:48
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
António Guterres - Designate Secretary-General of the United NationsAntónio Guterres is at the forefront of advocating for refugee rights around the world.
Why you should listen
A former Portuguese prime minister, António Guterres was elected by the UN General Assembly to become the 10th United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in June 2005. In October 2016 the United Nations Security Council announced he would be the next United Nations Secretary General, succeeding the retiring Ban Ki-moon.
As High Commissioner, he heads one of the world's foremost humanitarian organizations. UNHCR has twice won the Nobel Peace Prize. Its over 9,300 staff members work in 123 countries providing protection and assistance to nearly 55 million refugees, returnees, internally displaced people and stateless persons. Some 88 percent of UNHCR staff work in the field, often in difficult and dangerous duty stations.
Before joining UNHCR, Guterres spent more than 20 years in government and public service. He served as Portuguese prime minister from 1995 to 2002, during which time he was heavily involved in the international effort to resolve the crisis in East Timor. As president of the European Council in early 2000, he led the adoption of the so-called Lisbon Agenda and co-chaired the first European Union-Africa summit. He also founded the Portuguese Refugee Council in 1991 and was part of the Council of State of Portugal from 1991 to 2002.
From 1981 to 1983, Guterres was a member of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, as well as chairman of the Committee on Demography, Migration and Refugees. In addition, he has been active in Socialist International, a worldwide organization of social democratic political parties. He was the group's vice-president from 1992 to 1999 and president from 1999 until mid-2005.
Guterres was born on April 30, 1949, in Lisbon and educated at the Instituto Superior Técnico, where he remains a visiting professor. He is married and has two children.
António Guterres | Speaker | TED.com