TEDxPhoenix
Brenda Romero: Gaming for understanding
布伦达·布拉思韦特（Brenda Brathwaite）：为了理解而游戏
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严重复杂的悲剧事件一直以来都很难被人理解。当布伦达·布拉思韦特（Brenda Brathwaite）的女儿放学回家，问她有关奴隶制的问题时，她发挥了她的工作技能来回答这个问题——她设计了一款游戏。在“TEDx凤凰城”沙龙上，她介绍了这款游戏出乎意料的有效性，还有其他的一系列类似的游戏。这些游戏都能帮助玩家真正的理解游戏背后的故事。（拍摄自 TEDxPhoenix）
Brenda Romero - Game designer
Brenda Romero designs games that turn some of history's most tragic lessons into interactive, emotional experiences. Full bio
Brenda Romero designs games that turn some of history's most tragic lessons into interactive, emotional experiences. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
When we think of games, there's all kinds of things.
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当我们提起游戏时，脑海中会浮现很多回忆。
00:14
Maybe you're ticked off, or maybe you're looking forward
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或许你被某个游戏折磨得够呛，或许你正在期待着
00:16
to a new game. You've been up too late playing a game.
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一款新游戏，或许你为了玩游戏而熬夜。
00:18
All these things happen to me.
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所有这些都发生在我身上。
00:20
But when we think about games, a lot of times we think
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但是大部分时候，当我们想到“游戏”
00:22
about stuff like this: first-person shooters, or the big,
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通常想到的是： 第一人称射击游戏，或者大型的
00:24
what we would call AAA games,
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我们称之为3A级的游戏，
00:27
or maybe you're a Facebook game player.
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或者，你喜欢玩Facebook里的小游戏。
00:28
This is one my partner and I worked on.
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这是我跟搭档一起设计的一款游戏。
00:30
Maybe you play Facebook games, and that's what we're
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如果你玩Facebook游戏，这就是我们
00:31
making right now. This is a lighter form of game.
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现在正在设计的游戏。这是一种小型的游戏。
00:34
Maybe you think about the tragically boring board games
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或许你想到的是那些极为无聊的棋盘游戏
00:37
that hold us hostage in Thanksgiving situations.
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那些我们在感恩节时不得不玩的游戏。
00:40
This would be one of those tragically boring board games
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这个游戏就是那些你能想到的非常无聊的
00:42
that you can figure out.
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棋盘游戏之一。
00:44
Or maybe you're in your living room, you know,
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又或许你在客厅里，
00:46
playing with the Wii with the kids, or something like that,
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与孩子们一起玩Wii或者类似的游戏。
00:49
and, you know, there's this whole range of games,
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另外，还有各种各样的游戏，
00:51
and that's very much what I think about.
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这差不多就是我所能想到的游戏种类。
00:53
I make my living from games. I've been lucky enough
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我以设计游戏为生。我很幸运
00:54
to do this since I was 15, which also qualifies
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能够15岁就从事这行，另一方面这也意味着
00:57
as I've never really had a real job.
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我从没有过一份真正的工作。
00:59
But we think about games as fun, and that's completely
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人们认为游戏是有趣的，这是完全合理的，
01:02
reasonable, but let's just think about this.
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但让我们从另一个角度来想一想。
01:05
So this one here, this is the 1980 Olympics.
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请看这张照片，这是1980年的奥运会（美苏曲棍球比赛）。
01:07
Now I don't know where you guys were, but I was
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我不清楚你们当时在什么地方，当时我在
01:09
in my living room. It was practically a religious event.
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我家的客厅里。这场比赛实际上是一次意识形态的对抗。
01:12
And this is when the Americans beat the Russians,
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照片上就是美国队击败苏联队的瞬间，
01:15
and this was -- yes, it was technically a game.
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这是——是的，从技术上讲仍是一种游戏。
01:17
Hockey is a game. But really, was this a game?
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曲棍球是一种游戏。但说真的，这场比赛算是“游戏”吗？
01:20
I mean, people cried. I've never seen my mother cry
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我的意思是，有人因此哭泣。我从没见过我母亲在玩完
01:24
like that at the end of Monopoly.
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《大富翁》之后会哭成那样。
01:27
And so this was just an amazing experience.
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所以这只是一次“绝妙的体验”。
01:29
Or, you know, if anybody here is from Boston --
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或者，如果这里有谁是从波士顿来的
01:32
So when the Boston Red Sox won the World Series after,
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当波士顿红袜队再次赢得世界冠军，
01:35
I believe, 351 years,
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我想，距上次夺冠应该有351年了，
01:39
when they won the World Series, it was amazing.
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当他们赢得了世界冠军，这真令人惊叹。
01:41
I happened to be living in Springfield at the time,
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当时我刚好住在斯普林菲尔德（Springfield，和波士顿一个州）
01:43
and the best part of it was -- is that --
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最精彩的部分是——
01:46
you would close the women's door in the bathroom,
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如果你到女厕所，关上门
01:49
and I remember seeing "Go Sox," and I thought, really?
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我记得看到门上写着"加油，红袜队"，我当时想，不是吧？
01:51
Or the houses, you'd come out, because every game,
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另外大家都会从屋子里跑出来，因为每一场比赛，
01:54
well, I think almost every game, went into overtime, right?
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嗯，我记得几乎每一场比赛都会进入加时赛，对吗？
01:57
So we'd be outside, and all the other lights are on
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所以我们会到户外，周围所有的灯都亮着
01:59
on the whole block, and kids, like, the attendance was down
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整个街区都亮着，而孩子们逃课变得比较普遍
02:03
in school, and kids weren't going to school.
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他们都不怎么去上学了。
02:05
But it's okay, it's the Red Sox, right?
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但这没什么，因为是红袜队，对吧？
02:07
I mean, there's education, and then there's the Red Sox,
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我的意思是，一方面是上学，然后一方面是红袜队，
02:09
and we know where they're stacked.
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我们知道它们孰轻孰重。
02:11
So this was an amazing experience, and again, yes,
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所以这是一种“绝妙的体验”，而且再一次——是的，
02:14
it was a game, but they didn't write newspaper articles,
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这是一场游戏，但他们没在报纸上写文章，
02:16
people didn't say -- you know, really, "I can die now
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因为人们不会说——你知道，真的，“我现在感觉快死了
02:19
because the Red Sox won." And many people did.
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因为红袜队赢了比赛。” 其实很多人那样说了。
02:22
So games, it means something more to us.
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所以“游戏”对我们而言有更多的意义。
02:26
It absolutely means something more.
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它绝对拥有更多的意义。
02:27
So now, just, this is an abrupt transition here.
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现在切换一下话题
02:29
There was three years where I actually did have a real job, sort of.
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有三年时间，我有了真正的工作（在某种程度上算）
02:32
I was the head of a college department
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我担任了一个学院部门的主管
02:35
teaching games, so, again, it was sort of a real job,
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负责教游戏，算是某种意义上的真正的工作，
02:37
and now I just got to talk about making as opposed to making them.
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而现在我只是谈一谈做游戏而不是真正的去做出来。
02:40
And I was at a dinner. Part of the job of it, when you're
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有一次我参加了一个宴会。当你是一个部门头头的时候，
02:42
a chair of a department, is to eat, and I did that very well,
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你的工作之一就是“吃”，这项工作我完成的很好。
02:45
and so I'm out at a dinner with this guy called Zig Jackson.
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某次宴会上我认识了这这个人，叫齐格·杰克逊。
02:49
So this is Zig in this photograph. This is also one of Zig's
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这张照片里的人就是齐格，他自己的摄影作品。
02:52
photographs. He's a photographer.
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他是一名摄影师。
02:53
And he goes all around the country taking pictures
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他在全国各地跑来跑去，为自己拍照，
02:56
of himself, and you can see here he's got
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在这张照片里你可以看到他的
03:01
Zig's Indian Reservation. And this particular shot, this
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“印第安人保留地”系列照片。再来看这一张，
03:05
is one of the more traditional shots. This is a rain dancer.
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这是较传统的照片之一。这是一位祈雨舞者。
03:09
And this is one of my favorite shots here.
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这也是我最喜爱的照片之一。
03:11
So you can look at this, and maybe you've even seen
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接下来我们来看这张照片，也许你曾经看到过
03:13
things like this. This is an expression of culture, right?
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类似的东西。这是一种文化的表达，对吗？
03:16
And this is actually from his Degradation series.
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这张照片实际上是他的“退化”系列中的一张。
03:19
And what was most fascinating to me about this series
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这个系列最吸引我的是，
03:21
is just, look at that little boy there.
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看看那里那个小男孩。
03:23
Can you imagine? Now let's, we can see that's a traditional
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你能想象吗？现在，我们可以看到这是一位典型的
03:26
Native American. Now I just want to change that guy's race.
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美洲原住民。现在我想改变那家伙的种族。
03:28
Just imagine if that's a black guy.
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想象一下，如果这是一个黑人。
03:30
So, "Honey, come here, let's get your picture with the black guy."
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然后，"亲爱的，到这里来，我们来给你和这个黑人拍张照。"
03:33
Right? Like, seriously, nobody would do this.
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是吗？说真的，没有人会这么做。
03:35
It baffles the mind. And so Zig, being Indian,
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这个想法太使人困惑了。齐格，作为印第安人，
03:38
likewise it baffles his mind. His favorite photograph --
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同样感到困惑。他最喜欢的照片——
03:41
my favorite photograph of his, which I don't have in here is
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也是我最喜欢的一张，但这里没有——
03:43
Indian taking picture of white people taking pictures
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是一个印第安人正在拍摄一个给印第安人拍照的
03:46
of Indians. (Laughter)
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白人的照片。（笑声）
03:49
So I happen to be at dinner with this photographer,
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总之我碰巧与这个摄影师参加同一个宴会，
03:51
and he was talking with another photographer
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当时他正与另一个摄影师谈论
03:53
about a shooting that had occurred,
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一起刚刚发生的枪击案，
03:55
and it was on an Indian reservation. He'd taken his camera
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发生在印第安人保留区。他当时带了相机
03:57
up there to photograph it, but when he got there,
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准备到那里拍照，但当他到了那儿，
04:00
he discovered he couldn't do it. He just couldn't capture
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他发现他做不到。他总是没有办法按下快门。
04:01
the picture. And so they were talking back and forth
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所以他们翻来覆去地讨论这一问题
04:06
about this question. Do you take the picture or not?
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你会拍摄枪击案的照片么？
04:08
And that was fascinating to me as a game designer,
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他们的对话让我有了从未有过的想法，
04:11
because it never occurs to me, like, should I make
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比如，作为一个游戏设计者，我是否应该
04:12
the game about this difficult topic or not?
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设计涉及沉重主题的游戏？
04:15
Because we just make things that are fun or, you know,
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我们通常制作的游戏都是有趣的，或是让人恐惧的
04:17
will make you feel fear, you know, that visceral excitement.
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你知道，那种让人本能地感到兴奋的游戏。
04:21
But every other medium does it.
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但所有其他的媒介都会这么做。
04:23
So this is my kid. This is Maezza, and when she was
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这是我的孩子，Maezza，
04:26
seven years old, she came home from school one day,
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她七岁的时候，有一天她放学回家，
04:28
and like I do every single day, I asked her,
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我像平常一样问她，
04:30
"What'd you do today?"
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"今天你过的怎么样?"
04:31
So she said, "We talked about the Middle Passage."
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她说："我们今天讨论了中央航路。"（横渡大西洋贩卖黑奴的航线）
04:33
Now, this was a big moment. Maezza's dad is black,
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这是一个重大的时刻。Maezza 的爸爸是黑人，
04:37
and I knew this day was coming. I wasn't expecting it
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而我知道这一天迟早会来。但真没想到会是在她
04:40
at seven. I don't know why, but I wasn't.
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只有七岁的时候。我不知道为什么，但我确实没想到。
04:42
Anyways, so I asked her, "How do you feel about that?"
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于是，我接着问她：“你感觉怎么样？”
04:45
So she proceeded to tell me, and so any of you
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她接着告诉我，用你们中任何一位
04:48
who are parents will recognize the bingo buzzwords here.
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为人父母者都熟悉的“宾果流行语”来回答
04:51
So the ships start in England, they come down
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一开始那些船舶在英国，它们向下航行，
04:52
from England, they go to Africa, they go across the ocean --
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离开英国，来到非洲，又跨越大洋——
04:55
that's the Middle Passage part — they come to America
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这就是中央航路的部分——它们来到美国
04:57
where the slaves are sold, she's telling me.
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在那里出售奴隶”，她告诉我。
04:59
But Abraham Lincoln was elected president, and then he
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"但亚伯拉罕 · 林肯当选为总统，然后，
05:01
passed the Emancipation Proclamation, and now they're free.
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他通过了奴隶解放宣言，所以现在他们自由了。”
05:04
Pause for about 10 seconds.
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暂停了大约10 秒钟。
05:07
"Can I play a game, Mommy?"
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"我可以玩游戏了吗，妈妈?"
05:08
And I thought, that's it? And so, you know,
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而我想，这就完了？因为，你知道，
05:13
this is the Middle Passage, this is an incredibly significant
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这是可是中央航路，这是一件难以置信的重大事件，
05:16
event, and she's treating it like, basically some
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但她看待它就像是一些黑人
05:19
black people went on a cruise, is more or less
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去参加一次乘船游览，
05:21
how it sounds to her. (Laughter)
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她差不多就是这种感觉。（笑声）
05:23
And so, to me, I wanted more value in this, so when
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对我来说，我希望其中有更多意义，所以
05:27
she asked if she could play a game, I said,
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当她问我是否可以玩游戏时，我说，
05:29
"Yes." (Laughter)
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"可以。"（笑声）（omfg=oh my f*king god）
05:31
And so I happened to have all of these little pieces.
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碰巧我有很多这种小玩具。
05:33
I'm a game designer, so I have this stuff sitting around my house.
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我是一个游戏设计师，所以我家到处都是这些东西。
05:36
So I said, "Yeah, you can play a game," and I give her
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于是我说，"是啊，你可以玩游戏，"之后我给了她
05:38
a bunch of these, and I tell her to paint them
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一些这种小玩具，然后我让她给他们上色
05:39
in different families. These are pictures of Maezza
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表示不同的家庭成员。这些照片都是 Maezza
05:41
when she was — God, it still chokes me up seeing these.
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正在——上帝，现在我看到这些依然会哽咽——
05:44
So she's painting her little families.
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她在画她的迷你家庭成员。
05:46
So then I grab a bunch of them and I put them on a boat.
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于是我抓起其中的一部分，把它们放在一条小船上。
05:49
This was the boat. It was made quickly obviously. (Laughter)
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这就是那条小船。很明显它是个速成品。（笑声）
05:54
And so the basic gist of it is, I grabbed a bunch of families,
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所以重点是，我抓起一把玩具“家人”，
05:56
and she's like, "Mommy, but you forgot the pink baby
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而她不断地念叨："妈妈，您忘了拿粉红宝宝
05:59
and you forgot the blue daddy
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你忘了拿蓝爸爸
06:00
and you forgot all these other things."
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你忘了拿这个那个”等等。
06:01
And she says, "They want to go." And I said,
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她说，"他们也想要去。"我说：
06:03
"Honey, no they don't want to go. This is the Middle Passage.
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"不，亲爱的，他们不想去。这是中央航路。
06:05
Nobody wants to go on the Middle Passage."
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没人愿意走中央航路"。
06:07
So she gave me a look that only a daughter
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然后她看了看我，只有游戏设计师的女儿
06:09
of a game designer would give a mother,
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才会用这样的表情看着她妈妈
06:11
and as we're going across the ocean, following these rules,
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当我们准备“横渡大洋”，按照这些规则进行时，
06:14
she realizes that she's rolling pretty high, and she says
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她意识到这些要求太高了，她对我说
06:17
to me, "We're not going to make it."
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"我们做不到。"
06:20
And she realizes, you know, we don't have enough food,
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她意识到了，我们没有足够的粮食，
06:22
and so she asks what to do, and I say,
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于是她问要怎么办，我回答道，
06:25
"Well, we can either" -- Remember, she's seven --
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"嗯，我们可以要么"——请记住，她当时七岁——
06:27
"We can either put some people in the water
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"我们可以要么把一些人放到水中
06:29
or we can hope that they don't get sick
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要么我们只能希望他们一直不生病
06:30
and we make it to the other side."
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直到我们到达目的地。”
06:32
And she -- just the look on her face came over
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她又用之前的表情看了我一眼。
06:35
and she said -- now mind you this is after a month of --
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后来有一天——请注意，这是经过一个月的（历史熏陶）之后
06:37
this is Black History Month, right?
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那个月刚好是美国黑人历史月（二月）。
06:40
After a month she says to me,
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总之，一个月后，她对我说，
06:41
"Did this really happen?"
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"那些事情真的发生了吗?"
06:43
And I said, "Yes." And so she said, "So, if I came
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我说，"是的。"之后她说，"那么，如果我当时
06:46
out of the woods" — this is her brother and sister — "If I came
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出生了"——这是她的哥哥姐姐——"如果我
06:48
out of the woods, Avalon and Donovan might be gone."
"Yes."
"Yes."
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出生了，Avalon 和 Donovan 可能就不在了？” “是的。”
06:51
"But I'd get to see them in America."
"No."
"No."
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“但我到美国后会再见到他们吧？”“不会。”
06:54
"But what if I saw them? You know, couldn't we stay together?"
"No."
"No."
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"但万一我们能见面呢？我们不能呆在一起吗?" "不能。"
06:57
"So Daddy could be gone."
"Yes."
"Yes."
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"那么爸爸也可能不在了？" "是的。"
06:59
And she was fascinated by this, and she started to cry,
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她被吓呆了，之后她开始哭泣，
07:02
and I started to cry, and her father started to cry,
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我也开始哭，她的父亲也开始哭，
07:04
and now we're all crying. He didn't expect
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然后我们一起哭。他没想到
07:05
to come home from work to the Middle Passage,
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下班回家会遇到中央航路这档子事
07:07
but there it goes. (Laughter)
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但它就是发生了。（笑声）
07:09
And so, we made this game, and she got it.
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总之，我们一起玩了这样一个游戏，最后她懂了其中的含义。
07:12
She got it because she spent time with these people.
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她懂了，因为她与这些“人”共同经历了那个过程。
07:15
It wasn't abstract stuff in a brochure or in a movie.
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这不像书本或电影里的教化那样是抽象的东西。
07:18
And so it was just an incredibly powerful experience.
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这是一次令人惊叹、充满力量的体验。
07:21
This is the game, which I've ended up calling
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这就是那个游戏，我后来给它起了个名字
07:23
The New World, because I like the phrase.
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叫做《新世界》，因为我喜欢这个叫法。
07:25
I don't think the New World felt too new worldly exciting
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我不认为“新世界”会带来什么世俗的兴奋感
07:28
to the people who were brought over on slave ships.
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尤其对于那些曾经从奴隶船上下来的人们。
07:30
But when this happened, I saw the whole planet.
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但当这一切发生时，我看到了整个世界。
07:33
I was so excited. It was like, I'd been making games
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我感觉太激动了。这就像是，我设计游戏
07:35
for 20-some years, and then I decided to do it again.
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已经超过二十年，而我决定再做一些类似的游戏。
07:38
My history is Irish.
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我的故乡是爱尔兰。
07:40
So this is a game called Síochán Leat. It's "peace be with you."
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这个游戏叫做“Síochán Leat”。意思是《和平与你同在》。
07:42
It's the entire history of my family in a single game.
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仅仅这一个游戏就包含了我的整个家族史。
07:45
I made another game called Train.
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我设计了另一款游戏叫做《列车》。
07:47
I was making a series of six games
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我制作了一个系列的六款游戏
07:49
that covered difficult topics, and if you're going to cover
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都是关于沉重的主题，如果你要讨论一个
07:51
a difficult topic, this is one you need to cover,
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沉重的主题，就需要这样的游戏来开展
07:53
and I'll let you figure out what that's about on your own.
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我会让你自己通过游戏来发现关于这个主题的一切。
07:57
And I also made a game about the Trail of Tears.
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我还创作了一款游戏叫做《泪痕》
08:00
This is a game with 50,000 individual pieces.
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这个游戏有着5万个独立的零件。
08:03
I was crazy when I decided to start it,
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我当时肯定是疯了才决定要设计它，
08:05
but I'm in the middle of it now.
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不过我现在已经进行了近一半。
08:07
It's the same thing.
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这和之前的游戏是类似的。
08:08
I'm hoping that I'll teach culture through these games.
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我希望通过这些游戏来传授文化。
08:10
And the one I'm working on right now, which is --
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而我现在正在着手设计的游戏是——
08:12
because I'm right in the middle of it, and these for some reason choke me up like crazy --
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因为我正在全心投入，所以想到它很容易使我情绪波动——
08:15
is a game called Mexican Kitchen Workers.
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这个游戏叫做《墨西哥厨房工人》。
08:17
And originally it was a math problem more or less.
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最初它差不多只是一个数学问题的游戏。
08:20
Like, here's the economics of illegal immigration.
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就像，关于非法移民的经济学问题。
08:22
And the more I learned about the Mexican culture --
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之后，随着我学到越来越多的墨西哥文化——
08:25
my partner is Mexican — the more I learned that,
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我的搭档是墨西哥人——我越来越发现，
08:27
you know, for all of us, food is a basic need, but,
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你知道，对于我们所有人来说，食物是基本的需求，
08:30
and it is obviously with Mexicans too, but it's much more than that.
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当然对墨西哥人也是，但对他们来说食物的含义远不止如此。
08:33
It's an expression of love. It's an expression of —
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食物是爱的表达。它是——
08:36
God, I'm totally choking up way more than I thought.
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上帝，我没想到我会这么哽咽。
08:39
I'll look away from the picture.
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我还是先不看这张照片好了。
08:41
It's an expression of beauty. It's how they say they love you.
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它是美的表达。这是他们表达他们爱你的方式。
08:44
It's how they say they care, and you can't hear somebody
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这是他们表达在乎的方式。任何一个墨西哥人
08:46
talk about their Mexican grandmother
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谈起他的祖母
08:48
without saying "food" in the first sentence.
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第一句中一定会有"食物"。
08:51
And so to me, this beautiful culture, this beautiful expression
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对我来说，这种美丽的文化，这种美丽的表达方式
08:55
is something that I want to capture through games.
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正是我想要通过游戏捕捉的东西。
08:58
And so games, for a change, it changes how we see topics,
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因此游戏能够带来改变，它改变了我们讨论主题的方式，
09:01
it changes how our perceptions about those people
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它改变了我们对那些主题中人物的看法，
09:04
in topics, and it changes ourselves.
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它也改变了我们自己。
09:07
We change as people through games,
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我们通过玩游戏发生改变，
09:09
because we're involved, and we're playing,
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因为我们既是玩游戏的人，又是游戏的一部分，
09:11
and we're learning as we do so. Thank you. (Applause)
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与此同时，我们能学到东西。谢谢。（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Brenda Romero - Game designerBrenda Romero designs games that turn some of history's most tragic lessons into interactive, emotional experiences.
Why you should listen
For decades, Brenda Romero has been a major figure in the field of game design. Famous for her work on the role-playing series Wizardry, she’s also known for her work on Def Jam: Icon, Playboy: The Mansion, and Dungeons & Dragons: Heroes. Inspired by her daughter in 2008, she began work on her non-digital series, The Mechanic Is the Message, dedicated to expressing difficult subjects through interactive media. Train, a game derived from the events of the Holocaust, won the Vanguard Award at Indiecade in October 2009.
Read TED's interview with Brenda Romero: "To understand inequality, let's play a game."
Brenda Romero | Speaker | TED.com