ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala - Economist
Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala is a respected global economist.

Why you should listen

Okonjo-Iweala was the Finance Minister of Nigeria, Africa’s largest economy, from 2003 to 2006, and then briefly the country’s Foreign Affairs Minister, the first woman to hold either position. From 2011 to 2015 she was again named Minister of Finance and Coordinating Minister for the Economy of Nigeria. Between those terms, from 2007 to 2011, she was one of the managing director of the World Bank and a candidate to the organization’s presidency. She is now a senior advisor at financial advisory and asset management firm Lazard, and she chairs the Board of the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization. At the World Bank, she worked for change in Africa and assistance for low-income countries. As Finance Minister, she attacked corruption to make Nigeria more transparent and desirable for investment and jobs, an activism that attracted criticism from circles opposed to reform.

More profile about the speaker
Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala | Speaker | TED.com
TEDGlobal 2007

Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala: Aid versus trade

恩戈奇依维埃拉关于“援助还是贸易”的演讲

Filmed:
664,537 views

恩戈奇依维埃拉,前任尼日利亚财政部长,在2007年TED全球峰会的闭幕日上对四天来关于援助与贸易的讨论进行了总结,并分享了她个人投身这一问题的相关故事。
- Economist
Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala is a respected global economist. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:25
It's very, very difficult
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我知道作总结非常,非常难——
00:30
to speak说话 at the end结束 of a conference会议 like this,
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特别是在这样一个会议的结尾。
00:33
because everyone大家 has spoken. Everything has been said.
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一位每个人都发表了自己的言论,要说的都说完了。
00:36
So I thought that what may可能 be useful有用 is to remind提醒 us
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所以我想到,或许对我们真正有用的是提醒我们
00:40
of some of the things that have gone走了 on here,
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一些在这里经历过的事,
00:43
and then maybe offer提供 some ideas思路 which哪一个 we can take away,
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然后可能是提出一些我们可以带走的、
00:46
and take forward前锋 and work on.
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带向未来并予以实施的想法。
00:51
That's what I'd like to try and do.
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这也就是我想试着做的事。
00:52
We came来了 here saying we want to talk about "Africa非洲: the Next下一个 Chapter章节."
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我们来到这里,表示我们想要谈论“非洲:下一个篇章”。
00:57
But we are talking about "Africa非洲: the Next下一个 Chapter章节"
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但其实我们之所以在这里讨论“非洲:下一个篇章”,
00:59
because we are looking at the old and the present当下 chapter章节 -- that we're looking at,
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是因为我们在回顾和关注过去和现在这两个篇章,
01:05
and saying it's not such这样 a good thing.
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却说这不是一件好事。
01:08
The picture图片 I showed显示 you before, and this picture图片, of drought干旱, death死亡 and disease疾病
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我之前展现给你们的图像,这幅图,关于干旱、死亡和疾病,
01:11
is what we usually平时 see.
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便是我们常常看见的。
01:15
What we want to look at is "Africa非洲: the Next下一个 Chapter章节,"
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而我们想要看到的呢,则是“非洲,下一个篇章”。
01:19
and that's this: a healthy健康, smiling微笑, beautiful美丽 African非洲人.
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那就是,一个健康的、微笑着的、美丽的非洲。
01:23
And I think it's worth价值 remembering记忆 what we've我们已经 heard听说
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我坚信我们所听闻的东西值得记忆,
01:26
through通过 the conference会议 right from the first day,
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自从会议的第一天起,
01:28
where I heard听说 that all the important重要 statistics统计 have been given特定 --
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我听到了一切重要的数据统计,
01:31
about where we are now,
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关于我们所处的现状,
01:34
about how the continent大陆 is doing much better.
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关于这个大陆是怎样日趋进步。
01:38
And the importance重要性 of that is that we have a platform平台 to build建立 on.
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这之所以重要是因为我们由此有了一个可以工作的平台。
01:41
So I'm not going to spend too much time --
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所以,我不会花太多时间
01:44
just to show显示 you, refresh刷新 your memories回忆
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只是向你展示,唤醒你的记忆,
01:47
that we are here for "Africa非洲: the Next下一个 Chapter章节" because for the first time
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告诉你我们在这里讨论“非洲:下一个篇章”,因为史无前例地,
01:49
there really is a platform平台 to build建立 on.
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我们确实拥有了一个可操作的平台。
01:53
We really do have it going right
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我们确实把它扶入正轨,
01:56
that the continent大陆 is growing生长 at rates利率 that people had thought would not happen发生.
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正如这片大洲正以一个人们意想不到的速度发展。
02:00
After decades几十年 of 2 percent百分, we are now at 5 percent百分,
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在数十年间的2%的增速后,我们现在拥有了5%的增速,
02:03
and it's going to -- projected预计 -- 6 and 7 percent百分 even.
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并且这个数字还在增加着——预计将达六至七个百分点。
02:07
And inflation通货膨胀 has come down.
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同时,通货膨胀正趋于缓和。
02:11
External外部 debt债务 -- something that I can tell you a long story故事 about
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关于外债,我能讲出一个很长的故事。
02:13
because I personally亲自 worked工作 on one of the biggest最大 debts债务 on the continent大陆 --
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因为,我个人曾为解决这个大洲上最大的债务之一工作过,
02:17
has come down dramatically显着.
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而它的数额如今也有惊人的下降。
02:20
You know, as you can see,
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你知道,正如你所见,从将近
02:22
from almost几乎 50 billion十亿 down to about 12 or 13 billion十亿.
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500亿人下降至120或130亿人。
02:25
Now this is a huge巨大 achievement成就.
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这是多大的成就!
02:28
You know, we've我们已经 built内置 up reserves储量. Why is that important重要?
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你知道,我们已经建立了保护区,这为何重要呢?
02:32
It's because it shows节目 off our economies经济, shows节目 off our currencies货币
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那是因为,它炫耀着我们的经济,我们的货币,
02:35
and gives a platform平台 on which哪一个 people can plan计划 and build建立, including包含 businesses企业.
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并提供以人们一个可以计划、建立、做生意的平台。
02:40
We've我们已经 also seen看到 some evidence证据 that all this is making制造 a difference区别
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我们看到了一些见证着我们创造不同的证据。
02:44
because private私人的 investment投资 flows流动 have increased增加.
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正如私人投资流扩张了。
02:47
I want to remind提醒 you again --
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我想要再次提醒你的是,
02:49
I know you saw these statistics统计 before --
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我知道你们过去已经看过这些数据,
02:52
from almost几乎 6 billion十亿 we are now at about 18 billion十亿.
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从六十亿到现在的一百八十亿。
02:55
In 2005, remittances汇款 -- I just took one country国家, Nigeria尼日利亚
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2005年, 汇款--拿尼日利亚作例子--
02:58
skyrocketing暴涨 -- skyrocketing暴涨 is too dramatic戏剧性,
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你们知道,那是飞速上升-说飞速上升那就发展得太快了
03:03
but increasing增加 dramatically显着.
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但的确增长地非常快
03:06
And in many许多 other countries国家 this is happening事件.
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这种现象在其他国家也同样存在
03:08
Why is this important重要? Because it shows节目 confidence置信度.
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为什么这么重要呢?因为它显示了一种信心
03:10
People are now confident信心 to bring带来 --
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那些国家的人民现在自信于拿回
03:13
if your people in the diaspora散居 bring带来 their money back,
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如果你们人民离散各地,把他们的钱拿回来
03:16
it shows节目 other people that, look,
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那说明其他人民,看
03:18
there is emerging新兴 confidence置信度 in your country国家.
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对你们国家的信心正在崛起
03:21
And instead代替 of an outflow外流, you are now getting得到 a net inflow流入.
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现在你们正处于资金纯流入阶段而不是流出
03:24
Now, why is all this important重要, to have to go really fast快速?
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现在,为什么所有都是这么重要?一定要发展这么快吗?
03:26
It's important重要 that we build建立 this platform平台,
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重要的是,我们建了这个平台
03:29
that we have the president主席, Kikwete基奎特, and others其他 of our leaders领导者 who are saying,
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我们有自己的负责人,基奎特,以及其他的领导,他们说
03:32
"Look, we must必须 do something different不同."
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“看,我们必须做些有用的事”
03:34
Because we are confronted面对 with a challenge挑战.
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因为我们正面临着挑战
03:36
62 percent百分 of our population人口 is below下面 the age年龄 of 24.
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62%的人口都在24岁以下
03:43
What does this mean?
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这意味着什么?
03:46
This means手段 that we have to focus焦点 on how our youth青年
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这意味着我们必须关注我们年青人如何
03:49
are going to be engaged订婚 in productive生产的 endeavor努力 in their lives生活.
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在他们成长过程中投身于生产建设
03:52
You have to focus焦点 on how to create创建 jobs工作,
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你们必须重视如何创造就业
03:55
make sure they don't fall秋季 into disease疾病, and that they get an education教育.
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确保他们不被疾病困扰,他们可以接受教育
03:57
But most of all that they are productively富有成效 engaged订婚 in life,
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但要确保他们中的大多数人可以投身于生产中
04:00
and that they are creating创建 the kind of productive生产的 environment环境
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他们正在我们的国家创造一种生产环境
04:03
in our countries国家 that will make things happen发生.
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这种环境会让有些奇迹发生
04:07
And to support支持 this, I just recently最近 --
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你们知道,为了支持这项使命,我最近
04:10
one of the things I've doneDONE since以来 leaving离开 government政府
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辞去政府工作后我所作的事情之一
04:12
is to start开始 an opinion意见 research研究 organization组织 in Nigeria尼日利亚.
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在尼日利亚成立了一个民意调查组织
04:14
Most of our countries国家 don't even have any opinion意见 research研究.
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我们大多数国家甚至还没有民意调查组织
04:18
People don't have voice语音.
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听不到人民的声音
04:20
There is no way you can know what people want.
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这样的话我们无法知道人民的需要
04:22
One of the things we asked them recently最近 was what's their top最佳 issue问题.
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我最近问他们,什么才是他们的最大需求
04:24
Like in every一切 other country国家 where this has been doneDONE,
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而在其他的国家,这种需求已经得到满足
04:27
jobs工作 is the top最佳 issue问题.
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工作就是最大需求
04:31
I want to leave离开 this up here and come back to it.
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我想先到此为止,待会再回来讲
04:36
But before I get to this slide滑动, I just wanted to run you through通过 this.
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但在讲这个之前,我只想让你们明白
04:40
And to say that for me, the next下一个 stage阶段 of building建造 this platform平台
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我个人觉得,建设这个平台的下一步
04:43
that now enables使 us to move移动 forward前锋 --
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是让我们向前进--
04:46
and we mustn't不得 make light of it.
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我们不能忽视它
04:48
It was only 5, 6, 7 years年份 ago
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仅在五,六七年前
04:53
we couldn't不能 even talk about the next下一个 chapter章节, because we were in the old chapter章节.
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我们甚至不能谈下一阶段,因为我们还处于旧阶段
04:57
We were going nowhere无处.
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我们无路可走
05:00
The economies经济 were not growing生长.
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经济没有发展
05:02
We were having negative per capita人头 growth发展.
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我们的人均国民收入还是负增长
05:06
The microeconomic微观经济 framework骨架 and foundation基础 for moving移动 forward前锋
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发展必需的微观经济的框架和基础
05:08
was not even there.
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都没有建立起来
05:12
So let's not forget忘记 that it's taken采取 a lot to build建立 this,
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所以我们不要忘记,建立这个框架和基础需要很多资源
05:15
including包含 all those things that we tried试着 to do in Nigeria尼日利亚 that Dele削除 referred简称 to.
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包括德立(人名)所指出的我们在尼日利亚尝试做的所有事情
05:17
Creating创建 our own拥有 program程序 to solve解决 problems问题, like fighting战斗 corruption腐败,
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创建我们自己的项目去解决问题,像反腐败,
05:24
building建造 institutions机构, stabilizing稳定 the micro economy经济.
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建研究机构,稳定微观经济
05:29
So now we have this platform平台 we can build建立 on.
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如今我们可以在这个平台上建设
05:33
And it brings带来 us to the debate辩论 that has been going on here:
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这也就产生了我们一直以来的争议
05:37
aid援助 versus private私人的 sector扇形, aid援助 versus trade贸易, etc等等.
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援助和私营单位,援助和贸易等等
05:42
And someone有人 stood站在 up to say that one of the frustrating泄气 things
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有些人站起来说---最让人头疼的事是
05:47
is that it's been a simplistic简单化 debate辩论.
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这个争议变得简单化了
05:49
And that's not what the debate辩论 should be about.
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而且这不是我们该争议的
05:54
That's engaging in the wrong错误 debate辩论.
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我们一直在争议一个错的问题
05:58
The issue问题 here is how do we get a partnership合伙 that involves涉及 government政府 donors捐助者,
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真正的问题应是我们应该怎样调节好政府资助
06:00
the private私人的 sector扇形 and ordinary普通 African非洲人 people
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私营单位和负责他们自己生活的
06:04
taking服用 charge收费 of their own拥有 lives生活?
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普通非洲人民的合作关系
06:07
How do we combine结合 all this?
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我们怎样把这些因素整合起来
06:12
To move移动 our continent大陆 forward前锋, to do the things that need doing
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去发展非洲,去做所需之事
06:14
that I talked about -- getting得到 young年轻 people employed就业.
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我所要表达的意思就是--让年轻人有工作
06:17
Getting入门 the creative创作的 juices果汁 flowing流动 on this continent大陆,
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让非洲到处充满着创造性
06:20
much of what you have seen看到 here.
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很多你们已经在这里看到了
06:23
So I'm afraid害怕 we've我们已经 been engaging a little bit in the wrong错误 debate辩论.
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所以我担心你们其实在争议上有些错误
06:26
We need to bring带来 it back to say,
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我们需要回过头去问
06:28
what is the combination组合 of all these factors因素
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所有这些因素整合起来会是怎么样了
06:31
that is going to yield产量 what we want? (Applause掌声)
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去获得我们所需要的?
06:35
And I want to tell you something.
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我想要跟你们说件事
06:40
For me, the issue问题 about aid援助 --
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对我来说,援助这事--
06:43
I don't think that Africans非洲人 need to now go all the way over to the other side
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我觉得非洲人民不需要总是走另一个极端
06:47
and feel bad about aid援助.
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对援助感到不好意思
06:50
Africa非洲 has been giving the other countries国家 aid援助.
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非洲一直以来都给别的国家援助
06:53
Mo Ibrahim易卜拉欣 said at a debate辩论 we were at that
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莫爱布雷因在一次讨论会上说--
06:58
he dreams one day when Africa非洲 will be giving aid援助.
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他梦想着有一天非洲能够援助别国
07:00
And I said, "Mo, you're right. We have -- no, but we've我们已经 already已经 been doing it!
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然后我说,“莫,说得没错。我们已经--错了,我们一直以来都在这样做!”
07:03
The U.K. and the U.S. could not have been built内置 today今天 without Africa's非洲 aid援助."
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英国和美国如果没有非洲的援助是不可能发展到今天的
07:09
(Applause掌声)
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鼓掌
07:17
It is all the resources资源 that were taken采取 from Africa非洲,
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所有的资源都是从非洲掠夺去的
07:20
including包含 human人的, that built内置 these countries国家 today今天!
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包括人,这些资源成就了今天的他们
07:24
So when they try to give back, we shouldn't不能 be on the defensive防御性.
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所以当他们回来援助我们时,我们不应该有抵触心理
07:30
The issue问题 is not that.
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问题不在这里
07:33
The issue问题 is how are we using运用 what has been given特定 back.
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问题在于我们应怎样使用他们给我们的资源,他们还给我们的资源
07:37
How are we using运用 it?
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我们正怎样地使用这些资源
07:40
Is it being存在 directed针对 effectively有效?
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会直接产生效益吗
07:45
I want to tell you a little story故事.
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我想告诉你们一个小故事
07:48
Why I don't mind心神 if we get aid援助, but we use it well.
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为什么我对是否能获得援助并不关心,但关注是否能有效利用援助
07:57
From 1967 to '70, Nigeria尼日利亚 fought战斗 a war战争 -- the Nigeria-Biafra尼日利亚比夫拉 war战争.
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1967年到1970年,尼日利亚发生了战争--尼日利亚-比夫拉战争
08:00
And in the middle中间 of that war战争, I was 14 years年份 old.
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战争期间,我只有14岁
08:04
We spent花费 much of our time with my mother母亲 cooking烹饪.
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我们很多时间都在和我的母亲一起做饭
08:06
For the army军队 -- my father父亲 joined加盟 the army军队 as a brigadier准将 -- the Biafran比夫拉 army军队.
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给军队吃--我的父亲在军队中做陆军总将--比夫拉军队
08:09
We were on the Biafran比夫拉 side.
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我们站在比夫拉一边
08:11
And we were down to eating one meal膳食 a day, running赛跑 from place地点 to place地点,
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我们每天只吃一顿,还经常迁移
08:14
but wherever哪里 we could help we did.
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到能提供帮助的地方
08:18
At a certain某些 point in time, in 1969, things were really bad.
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在1969年的某段时间,情况很糟糕
08:22
We were down to almost几乎 nothing in terms条款 of a meal膳食 a day.
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我们几乎天天都没得吃
08:26
People, children孩子 were dying垂死 of kwashiorkor恶性营养不良.
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人们,孩子因为营养不良而死去
08:28
I'm sure some of you who are not so young年轻
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我相信你们中稍年长的人
08:30
will remember记得 those pictures图片.
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会记得那些照片的
08:33
Well, I was in the middle中间 of it.
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而我就在其中
08:35
In the midst中间 of all this, my mother母亲 fell下跌 ill生病 with a stomach ailment病痛 for two or three days.
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在那期间,我母亲食物中毒了两三天
08:39
We thought she was going to die.
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我们想母亲可能会死
08:41
My father父亲 was not there.
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父亲又没和我们在一起
08:43
He was in the army军队.
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他在军队
08:44
So I was the oldest最老的 person in the house.
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所以我是家里最大的
08:48
My sister妹妹 fell下跌 very ill生病 with malaria疟疾.
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我的妹妹患了疟疾
08:53
She was three years年份 old and I was 15.
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她只有三岁而我那时15岁
08:58
And she had such这样 a high fever发热. We tried试着 everything.
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她发着严重的高烧--我们试了所有办法
09:00
It didn't look like it was going to work.
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但似乎都没有用
09:04
Until直到 we heard听说 that 10 kilometers公里 away there was a doctor医生, who was
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直到我们听说10公里外有个医生,她能够--
09:08
looking at people and giving them meds吃药.
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治疗病人并给他们药物
09:10
Now I put my sister妹妹 on my back -- burning燃烧 --
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于是我背着妹妹--非常烫--
09:14
and I walked 10 kilometers公里 with her strapped on my back.
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把她捆在背上走了10公里
09:17
It was really hot. I was very hungry饥饿.
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那时非常热,我又非常饿
09:22
I was scared害怕 because I knew知道 her life depended依赖 on my getting得到 to this woman女人.
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我很害怕,因为我知道她的生命就完全取决于我能否走到医生那里
09:25
We heard听说 there was a woman女人 doctor医生 who was treating治疗 people.
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我们听说有个会治病的女医生
09:27
I walked 10 kilometers公里, putting one foot脚丫子 in front面前 of the other.
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我一步一个脚印地艰难地走了10公里
09:30
I got there and I saw huge巨大 crowds人群.
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当我到了那里,看到一群人围着
09:33
Almost几乎 a thousand people were there, trying to break打破 down the door.
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差不多有一千人,都在挤进门
09:36
She was doing this in a church教会. How was I going to get in?
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她在一个教堂里看病。那我怎么才能进去呢?
09:42
I had to crawl爬行 in between之间 the legs of these people
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我必须在这些人的腿间爬行前进
09:45
with my sister妹妹 strapped on my back,
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背上捆着妹妹
09:49
find a way to a window窗口.
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爬到了窗边
09:50
And while they were trying to break打破 down the door,
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当所有人都想挤进门的时候
09:53
I climbed爬上 in through通过 the window窗口, and jumped跳下 in.
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我从窗户进去,跳进了教堂
09:57
This woman女人 told me it was in the nick缺口 of time.
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女医生说我来得非常及时
10:00
By the time we jumped跳下 into that hall大厅, she was barely仅仅 moving移动.
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当我们跳进教堂大厅时,她几乎无法动弹了
10:04
She gave a shot射击 of her chloroquine氯喹 -- what I learned学到了 was the chloroquine氯喹 then --
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她给妹妹注射了一剂氯喹(治疟疾的药),那时我所知道的就是氯喹--
10:08
gave her some -- it must必须 have been a re-hydration再水化 --
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然后给了妹妹一些--这肯定是水合作用的结果--
10:11
and some other therapies治疗, and put us in a corner.
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其他的一些药物,把我们放到了一个角落
10:18
In about two to three hours小时, she started开始 to move移动.
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大概两三个小时后,妹妹开始动了
10:23
And then they toweled用毛巾 her down because she started开始 sweating出汗,
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接着他们给她擦汗,因为她开始流汗了
10:26
which哪一个 was a good sign标志.
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那是个好兆头
10:31
And then my sister妹妹 woke醒来 up.
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接着我妹妹醒过来了
10:35
And about five or six hours小时 later后来, she said we could go home.
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大概五六个小时后,她说可以回家了
10:38
I strapped her on my back.
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我把她捆在背上
10:41
I walked the 10 kilometers公里 back and it was the shortest最短 walk步行 I ever had.
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我走了10公里回去,这是我走过的最短的路了
10:45
I was so happy快乐 -- (Applause掌声) -- that my sister妹妹 was alive!
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我非常开心--(鼓掌)--我的妹妹被救活了!
10:52
Today今天 she's 41 years年份 old, a mother母亲 of three,
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现在,她已经41岁了,是三个孩子的母亲
10:54
and she's a physician医师 saving保存 other lives生活.
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她是个医师,挽救着其他生命
10:57
Why am I telling告诉 that? I'm telling告诉 you that because --
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为什么我要说这个?我是在告诉你们因为--
10:59
when it is you or your person involved参与 --
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如果那是你--或你的家人--
11:05
you don't care关心 where -- whether是否 it's aid援助.
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你并不关心援助在哪里--援助什么
11:10
You don't care关心 what it is! (Applause掌声)
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你不关心到底是什么援助!
11:18
You just want the person to be alive!
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你只是想让人活下去
11:23
And now let me become成为 less sentimental感伤, and say that saving保存 lives生活 --
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现在我让自己不那么伤感了,我认为挽救生命
11:26
which哪一个 some of the aid援助 we get does on this continent大陆 --
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在非洲有些援助是有这个效果
11:29
when you save保存 the life of anyone任何人, a farmer农民, a teacher老师, a mother母亲,
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当你救了别人的命,如农民,教师或一位母亲
11:32
they are contributing贡献 productively富有成效 into the economy经济.
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他们对经济是有很大贡献的
11:34
And as an economist经济学家, we can also look at that side of the story故事.
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作为一名经济学家,我们也可以看到故事的这一层含义
11:43
These are people who are productive生产的 agents代理 in the economy经济.
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这些人在经济上是生产力的代表
11:45
So if we save保存 people from HIVHIV/AIDS艾滋病, if we save保存 them from malaria疟疾,
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所以如果我们拯救得爱滋病的人,如果我们拯救得了疟疾的人
11:49
it means手段 they can form形成 the base基础 of production生产 for our economy经济.
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这些人就成了经济生产力的基础
11:52
And by the same相同 token代币 --
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同样
11:56
as someone有人 said yesterday昨天 -- if we don't and they die,
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就像昨天有人说的,如果你不救,他们就会死
11:58
their children孩子 will become成为 a burden负担 on the economy经济.
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他们的孩子就会成为整个经济的负担
12:00
So even from an economic经济 standpoint立场,
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甚至从经济学的角度看
12:04
if we leave离开 the social社会 and the humanitarian人道主义,
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如果我们是社会性的和人道主义的
12:06
we need to save保存 lives生活 now.
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我们必须要去拯救生命
12:09
So that's one of the reasons原因, from a personal个人 experience经验, that I say
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那是其中一个原因,我个人的经历告诉我们
12:12
let's channel渠道 these resources资源 we get into something productive生产的.
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要将我们获得的资源分配到生产力上
12:18
However然而, I will also tell you that I'm one of those
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然后,我也想告诉你们很多人,包括我在内
12:22
who doesn't believe that this is the sole唯一 answer回答.
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不相信这是唯一的出路
12:25
That's why I said the debate辩论 has to get more sophisticated复杂的.
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这也是为什么我说这个讨论会应该更精细
12:28
You know, we have to use it well.
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你们知道,我们应该很好利用这些资源
12:34
What has happened发生 in Europe欧洲?
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欧洲怎么做的呢?
12:38
Do you all know that Spain西班牙 -- part部分 of the EU欧洲联盟 --
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你们都知道西班牙--欧盟的成员国--
12:42
got 10 billion十亿 dollars美元 in aid援助 from the rest休息 of the EU欧洲联盟?
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从欧盟的其他成员国那里获得100亿欧元的援助?
12:46
Resources资源 that were transferred转入 to them --
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援助到了他们手中--
12:50
and were the Spanish西班牙语 ashamed羞愧 of this? No!
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西班牙有没有觉得丢脸?不会!
12:53
The EU欧洲联盟 transferred转入 10 billion十亿. Where did they use it?
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欧盟援助了100亿。这些钱都用到哪儿了?
12:55
Have you been to southern南部的 Spain西班牙 lately最近? There are roads道路 everywhere到处.
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你们最近有去过西班牙南部吗?那里到处是路
13:00
Infrastructure基础设施 everywhere到处.
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到处是基础设施
13:03
It is on the back of this that the whole整个 of southern南部的 Spain西班牙
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由于基础设施的支持,整个南部西班牙
13:05
has developed发达 into a services服务 economy经济.
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已经发展成服务经济了
13:08
Did you know that Ireland爱尔兰 got 3 billion十亿 dollars美元 in aid援助?
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你们知道爱尔兰获得30亿的援助吗?
13:10
Ireland爱尔兰 is one of the fastest-growing增长最快 economies经济 in the European欧洲的 Union联盟 today今天.
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爱尔兰是现在欧盟发展最快的国家之一
13:14
For which哪一个 many许多 people, even from other parts部分 of the world世界,
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许多人,甚至是世界其他国家的人
13:20
are going there to find jobs工作.
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到那里去找工作
13:22
What did they do with the 3 billion十亿 dollars美元 in aid援助?
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爱尔兰人到底拿了这30亿去做什么了?
13:25
They used it to build建立 an information信息 superhighway超级公路,
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他们用这些钱建了信息高速公路
13:28
gain获得 infrastructure基础设施 that
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这个基础设施使得爱尔兰能够参与--
13:32
enables使 them to participate参加 in the
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或者现在能够参与--
13:34
information信息 technology技术 revolution革命,
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信息技术革命
13:36
and to create创建 jobs工作 in their economy经济.
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并且创造了很多就业机会
13:39
They didn't say, "No, you know, we're not going to take this."
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他们没说,不,你们知道,我们不打算拿这笔钱
13:41
Today今天, the European欧洲的 Union联盟 is busy transferring转移 aid援助.
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现在,欧盟内部积极开展援助工作
13:44
My frustration挫折 is if they can build建立 infrastructure基础设施 in Spain西班牙 --
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我的疑惑是如果他们可以在西班牙建基础设施
13:46
which哪一个 is roads道路, highways公路, other things that they can build建立 --
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那些公路,高速公路或其他一些基础设施
13:50
I say then, why do they refuse垃圾 to use the same相同 aid援助
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那为什么他们拒绝用同样的援助资金
13:52
to build建立 the same相同 infrastructure基础设施 in our countries国家? (Applause掌声)
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在我们国家建基础设施呢?(鼓掌)
13:54
When we ask them and tell them what we need,
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当我们问他们,告诉他们我们需要什么的时候?
14:05
one of my worries today今天 is that we have many许多 foundations基金会 now.
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现在我所担心的是我们现在有很多基金组织了
14:07
Now we talk about the World世界 Bank银行, IMF国际货币基金组织, and accountability问责, all that
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我们讲到世界银行,国际货币基金组织,可靠性和诸如此类的
14:10
and the EU欧洲联盟.
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以及欧盟
14:12
We also have private私人的 citizens公民 now who have a lot of money --
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我们也有一些很富有的公民
14:17
some of them in this audience听众, with private私人的 foundations基金会.
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他们有些人就是观众里面,和一些私人基金组织
14:19
And one day, these foundations基金会 have so much money,
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有一天,这些组织会有很多钱
14:22
they will overtake超过 the official官方 aid援助 that is being存在 given特定.
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他们将代替一直以来的政府援助
14:25
But I fear恐惧 -- and I'm very grateful感激 to all of them
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但我担心---我也对他们很感激
14:30
for what they are trying to do on the continent大陆 --
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他们为非洲所做的事
14:32
but I'm also worried担心. I wake唤醒 up with a gnawing in my belly肚皮
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但我也担心。我起床时肚子很痛
14:39
because I see a new set of aid援助 entrepreneurs企业家 on the continent大陆.
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因为我看到一批新的援助企业家在非洲
14:42
And they're also going from country国家 to country国家,
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而且他们也行走于各国间
14:46
and many许多 times trying to find what to do.
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很多次都尝试着找到应该该做的事
14:51
But I'm not really sure that their assistance帮助
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但我真的不太确定他们的帮助
14:54
is also being存在 channeled渠道 in the right way.
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是否走对了方向
14:58
And many许多 of them are not really familiar with the continent大陆.
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而且他们中的很多人不太了解非洲的情况
15:00
They are just discovering发现.
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他们只是不断地在发现
15:03
And many许多 times I don't see Africans非洲人 working加工 with them.
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很多时候我都没看到他们与非洲人一起在工作
15:06
They are just going alone单独! (Applause掌声)
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他们经常独断独行!(鼓掌)
15:09
And many许多 times I get the impression印象 that they are not really even interested有兴趣
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而且很多时候我觉得他们不太感兴趣于
15:11
in hearing听力 from Africans非洲人 who might威力 know.
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听取非洲人的意见
15:15
They want to visit访问 us,
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他们就想访问我们
15:18
see what's happening事件 on the ground地面 and make a decision决定.
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看看土地上发生着什么,然后做出决定
15:20
And now I'm maybe being存在 harsh苛刻.
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现在我所说的可能比较尖锐
15:22
But I worry担心 because this money is so important重要.
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但我焦虑是因为这点钱非常重要
15:25
Now, who are they accountable问责 to?
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现在,他们向谁负责?
15:30
Are we on their boards when they make decisions决定
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当他们做决定投钱的时候我们是不是也在董事会呢?
15:32
about where to channel渠道 money? Are we there?
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我们在那里吗?
15:35
Will we make the same相同 mistake错误 that we made制作 before?
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我们会犯以前犯过的错误吗?
15:38
Have our presidents总统 and our leaders领导者 -- everyone大家 is talking about --
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我们的总统和领导人--每个人都在谈论--
15:40
have they ever called these people together一起 and said,
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有没有把这些人召集到一起说
15:42
"Look, your foundation基础 and your foundation基础 --
268
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“看,你的基金组织和你的基金组织--
15:45
you have so much money, we are grateful感激.
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你们有那么多钱,我们很感激
15:47
Let's sit down and really tell you where the money should be channeled渠道
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我们坐下来,商议一下这些钱应该怎么用
15:50
and where this aid援助 should go."
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和这些钱到底应该投向哪里。”
15:53
Have we doneDONE that? The answer回答 is no.
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我们有没有这样做呢?答案是不
15:58
And each one is making制造 their own拥有 individual个人 effort功夫.
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每个人都在做着他们自己的努力
16:01
And then 10 years年份 from now, billions数十亿 will again have gone走了 into Africa非洲,
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至今十年间,上十亿的资金投入到非洲
16:04
and we would still have the same相同 problems问题.
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我们仍然存在同样的问题
16:08
This is what gives us the hopeless绝望 image图片.
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这也就是展现给我们的绝望的场景
16:11
Our inability无力 to take charge收费 and say to all these people bringing使 their money,
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我们没有能力掌控起来,对这些投钱的人说
16:15
"Sit down."
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“坐下”
16:17
And we don't do it because there are so many许多 of us. We don't coordinate坐标.
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我们没有这样做是因为我们人太多了,我们没有协调起来
16:19
We've我们已经 not called the Bill法案 Gates盖茨, and the Soros索罗斯,
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我们没有叫比尔盖茨和索罗斯--
16:25
and everybody每个人 else其他 who is helping帮助 and say,
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以及其他帮助非洲的人说
16:30
"Sit down. Let's have a conference会议 with you.
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“坐下,咱们开个会。
16:33
As a continent大陆, here are our priorities优先.
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作为一个大陆,这是我们最需要的。
16:36
Here is where we want you to channel渠道 this money."
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这里需要你们投入金钱。”
16:40
Each one should not be an entrepreneur企业家
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不是每个人都是企业家
16:42
going out and finding发现 what is best最好.
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出动一下就能发现什么才是最好的
16:45
We're not trying to stop them at all! But to help them help us better.
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我们并没有阻止他们这样做。根本没有!但让他们能够更有效地帮助我们
16:49
And what is disappointing令人失望 me is that we are not doing this.
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但让我感觉失望的是我们并没有这样在做
16:52
Ten years年份 from now we will have the same相同 story故事,
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至今10年,我们的问题依然存在
16:54
and we will be repeating重复 the same相同 things.
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并且还会重复出现
16:59
So our problem问题 right now is, how can we leverage杠杆作用
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所以我们现在的问题是我们应该怎样协调
17:04
all this good will that is coming未来 towards our way?
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那些向我们所表达的好意
17:10
How can we get government政府 to combine结合 properly正确
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我们怎样才能使政府很恰当地整合
17:14
with these private私人的 foundations基金会, with the international国际 organizations组织,
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私营基金组织和国际组织
17:17
and with our private私人的 sector扇形.
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和我们那些私营单位
17:20
I firmly牢牢 believe in that private私人的 sector扇形 thing too.
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我也对私营单位充满着信心
17:24
But it cannot不能 do it alone单独.
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但它不能单独行动
17:26
So there might威力 be a few少数 ideas思路 we could think of that could work.
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所以可能有些想法会奏效
17:29
They said this is about proliferating增殖 and sharing分享 ideas思路.
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他们说这有关于推广和分离想法
17:32
So why don't we think of using运用 some of this aid援助?
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所以我们为什么不想想怎样使用援助资金
17:37
Well, why don't we first say to those helping帮助 us out,
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而且,为什么我们不首先对那些帮助我们的人说
17:40
"Don't be shy害羞 about infrastructure基础设施.
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不要在基础设施建设上吝啬
17:42
That health健康 that you're working加工 on cannot不能 be sustainable可持续发展 without infrastructure基础设施.
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你们发展的医疗如果没有基础设施建设是无法长久的
17:49
That education教育 will work better
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教育会发展地更好
17:54
if we've我们已经 got electricity电力 and railroads铁路, and so on.
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如果你们建设了电力和铁路,以及其他
17:57
That agriculture农业 will work better if there are railroads铁路 to get the goods产品 to market市场.
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农业也会发展更好如果有铁路可以把作物运送到市场
18:00
Don't be shy害羞 of it.
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千万别对基础设施不感兴趣
18:05
Invest投资 some of your resources资源 in that, too."
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也把你们的资源投到那里去吧
18:08
And then we can see that this is one combination组合
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于是我们可以发现这其实就是整合了
18:13
of private私人的, international国际, multilateral多边 money,
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私人的,国际社会的以及多方面的资金
18:17
private私人的 sector扇形 and the African非洲人 that we can put together一起 as a partnership合伙,
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私营单位和非洲人可以合作
18:20
so that aid援助 can be a facilitator主持人.
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那么援助就是一个发展推进器
18:25
That is all aid援助 can be.
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那也是援助该有的效果
18:28
Aid援助 cannot不能 solve解决 our problems问题, I'm firmly牢牢 convinced相信 about that.
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我坚信援助不能解决我们的问题
18:30
But it can be catalytic催化. And if we fail失败 to use it as catalytic催化,
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但却可以成为催化剂。如果我们没能用它做催化剂
18:34
we would have failed失败.
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我们就会失败
18:39
One of the reasons原因 why China中国 is a bit popular流行 with Africans非洲人 now --
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中国为什么更受非洲人欢迎的一个原因就是--
18:42
one of the reasons原因 is not only just that, you know, these people are stupid
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众多原因之一--不仅在于这个,有些人说你们这些人很愚蠢
18:47
and China中国 is coming未来 to take resources资源.
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中国一直是为争夺资源而来非洲的
18:50
It's because there's a little more leverage杠杆作用 in terms条款 of the Chinese中文.
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这是因为中国人更懂得经济杠杆
18:56
If you tell them, "We need a road here,"
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如果你告诉他们,“我们需要在这里建条路。”
19:01
they will help you build建立 it.
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他们会帮你建好
19:03
They don't shy害羞 away from infrastructure基础设施.
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千万不要不管基础设施建设
19:04
In fact事实, the Chinese中文 minister部长 of finance金融 said to me,
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事实上,中国财政部长对我说
19:06
when I asked him what are we doing wrong错误 in Nigeria尼日利亚.
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当我问他尼日利亚具体错在哪里时
19:08
He said, "There are two things you need only.
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他说你们只需要做两件事
19:11
Infrastructure基础设施, infrastructure基础设施, infrastructure基础设施 and discipline学科.
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“基础设施,基础设施,基础设施--以及规划,
19:14
You are undisciplined散漫." (Applause掌声)
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你们没有规划。”(鼓掌)
19:23
And I repeat重复 it for the continent大陆.
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然后我觉得整个非洲都该这样
19:27
It's the same相同. We need infrastructure基础设施, infrastructure基础设施 and discipline学科.
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道理是一样的,我们需要基础设施,基础设施和规划
19:28
So we can make a catalytic催化 to help us provide提供 some of that.
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所以我们可以使催化刘帮助我们提供部分基础设施
19:31
Now I realize实现 -- I'm not saying -- health健康 and education教育 --
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现在我意识到,我不是说,医疗和教育
19:35
no, you can also provide提供 that as well.
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不,你们也是可以在那两个方面投入资金的
19:38
But I'm saying it's not either or.
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但我不是想说只能两者选其一
19:41
Let's see how aid援助 can be a facilitator主持人 in partnership合伙.
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让我们来看看援助怎样成为推进器,在合作之中
19:43
One idea理念.
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这是一个想法
19:46
Second第二 thing, for the private私人的 sector扇形,
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第二,对私营单位来说
19:49
people are afraid害怕 to take risks风险 on the continent大陆.
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他们担心在非洲有很大风险
19:53
Why can't some of this aid援助 be used as a kind of guarantee保证 mechanisms机制,
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为什么有些援助就不能用来担保
19:55
to enable启用 people to take risk风险?
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这些人可能遇到的风险呢?
19:59
(Applause掌声)
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(鼓掌)
20:00
And finally最后, because they are both standing常设 at my -- I'm out of time.
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但最后,因为他们都站着--我时间用完了--我的时间用完了
20:06
Am I out of time?
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我的时间到了吗?
20:09
OK, so let me not forget忘记 my punchline妙处.
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好的,那让我说完我的结束语
20:12
One of the things I want everybody每个人 to collaborate合作 on is
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其中一件事就是我想每个人团结起来
20:15
to support支持 women妇女, to create创建 jobs工作. (Applause掌声)
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帮助妇女就业。(鼓掌)
20:24
A lot has been said here about women妇女, I don't need to repeat重复 it.
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在这里妇女的话题谈了很多,我也不想重复
20:26
But there are people -- women妇女 -- creating创建 jobs工作.
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但有些妇女的确在创造就业
20:29
And we know, studies学习 have shown显示
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据我们所知,研究已经表明
20:31
that when you put resources资源 in the hand of the woman女人 --
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当你把资源交由妇女来管理时
20:34
in fact事实, there's an econometric计量经济学 study研究,
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事实上,那是一个计量经济学上的统计--
20:36
the World世界 Bank银行 Review评论, doneDONE in 2000, showing展示 that
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世界银行在2000年的年报中已经表明
20:39
transfers转让 into the hands of women妇女 result结果
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由妇女来管理会
20:42
in healthier健康 children孩子, more for the household家庭, more for the economy经济 and all that.
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让孩子更健康,家庭会更好,经济也会更好以及其他的
20:47
So I'm saying that one of the takeaways外卖 from here --
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所以我是想说的是
20:50
I'm not saying the men男人 are not important重要 --
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我并不是想说男人不重要
20:51
obviously明显, if you leave离开 the husbands丈夫 out, what will they do?
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很明显,如果妇女离开了丈夫,她们会怎样
20:54
They'll他们会 come back home and get disgruntled不满,
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她们回到家中,变得不高兴
20:56
and it will result结果 in difficulties困难 we don't want.
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这就会导致我们不愿见到的困难
21:00
We don't want men男人 beating跳动 their wives妻子
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我们不允许男人因为
21:02
because they don't have a job工作, and so on.
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女人没有工作而打女人
21:05
But at the margin余量, we also -- I want to push this,
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但至少,我们也--我想推广这个想法
21:08
because the reason原因 is the men男人 automatically自动 --
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因为原因在于男人会自动地--
21:12
they get -- not automatically自动, but they tend趋向 to get more support支持.
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不是自动地--但他们倾向于获得更多帮助
21:17
But I want you to realize实现 that resources资源
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但我想你们要意识到资源
21:20
in the hands of African非洲人 women妇女 is a powerful强大 tool工具.
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掌控在非洲女人心中也是很有用的
21:24
There are people creating创建 jobs工作.
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有些妇女就在创造就业
21:28
Beatrice比阿特丽斯 GakubaGakuba has created创建 200 jobs工作 from her flower business商业 in Rwanda卢旺达.
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碧翠丝 加库马在卢旺达的鲜花生意中创造了200个就业岗位
21:30
We have IbukunIbukun Awosika阿沃西卡 in Nigeria尼日利亚, with the chair椅子 company公司.
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在尼日利亚,伊布康 阿沃斯卡的家具--椅子公司
21:35
She wants to expand扩大.
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她还要扩大公司
21:37
She needs需求 another另一个 20 million百万.
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她需要另外2000万资金
21:39
She will create创建 another另一个 100, 200 more jobs工作.
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她会创造10万2百多个岗位
21:43
So take away from here is how are you going to put together一起
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所以接下来的问题就是你们怎样整合
21:47
the resources资源 to put money in the hands of women妇女 in the middle中间
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那些把资金交由那些妇女掌控的资源
21:49
who are ready准备 --
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这些妇女已经有一定的经济实力
21:53
business商业 people who want to expand扩大 and create创建 more jobs工作.
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那些想扩大公司并创造更多就业岗位的商人
21:56
And lastly最后, what are you going to do
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最后,你们也可以个人身份去
22:01
to be part部分 of this partnership合伙 of aid援助, government政府, private私人的 sector扇形
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参与与政府,私营单位
22:06
and the African非洲人 as an individual个人?
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以及非洲人的合作
22:09
Thank you. (Applause掌声)
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谢谢。(鼓掌)
Translated by Bin Xie
Reviewed by Zhu Jie

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala - Economist
Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala is a respected global economist.

Why you should listen

Okonjo-Iweala was the Finance Minister of Nigeria, Africa’s largest economy, from 2003 to 2006, and then briefly the country’s Foreign Affairs Minister, the first woman to hold either position. From 2011 to 2015 she was again named Minister of Finance and Coordinating Minister for the Economy of Nigeria. Between those terms, from 2007 to 2011, she was one of the managing director of the World Bank and a candidate to the organization’s presidency. She is now a senior advisor at financial advisory and asset management firm Lazard, and she chairs the Board of the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization. At the World Bank, she worked for change in Africa and assistance for low-income countries. As Finance Minister, she attacked corruption to make Nigeria more transparent and desirable for investment and jobs, an activism that attracted criticism from circles opposed to reform.

More profile about the speaker
Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala | Speaker | TED.com