ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Onora O'Neill - Philosopher
Baroness Onora O'Neill is a philosopher who focuses on international justice and the roles of trust and accountability in public life.

Why you should listen

Philosopher Baroness Onora O'Neill thinks we are perverting trust. Considering how much stock we put into trust and assessing trusting attitudes, it's something we don't really understand, argues O'Neill. What we really need, she says, is not trust -- but trustworthiness. In addition to her study of how we (wrongly) approach trust and accountability in civic life, O'Neill also focuses on bioethics and international justice.

O'Neill's most recent book, co-written with Neil Manson is Rethinking Informed Consent in Bioethics, published in 2007. She was Principal of Newnham College, a college of the University of Cambridge, from 1992 to 2006, and President of the British Academy from 2005 to 2009. In early 2013 O'Neill was confirmed as the new Chair of England's Equality and Human Rights Commission. She is a crossbench member of the House of Lords.

More profile about the speaker
Onora O'Neill | Speaker | TED.com
TEDxHousesOfParliament

Onora O'Neill: What we don't understand about trust

Onora O'Neill: 我们误解“信任”

Filmed:
1,700,340 views

信任感在降低,我们需要重建信任。这是我们为了建设一个更美好的社会经常听到的提议。但是,哲学家奥诺拉•奥尼尔说,我们并不真正理解我们在建议什么。她逐个分析这些问题,告诉我们对于信任的最普遍的三个观点其实是有误导性的。 (摄于TEDx 议会院)
- Philosopher
Baroness Onora O'Neill is a philosopher who focuses on international justice and the roles of trust and accountability in public life. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
So I'm going to talk about trust相信,
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我今天要讲的是信任。
00:14
and I'm going to start开始 by reminding提醒 you
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一开始,我要先向你们交代一下,
00:16
of the standard标准 views意见 that people have about trust相信.
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人们对信任的基本观点。
00:20
I think these are so commonplace平凡,
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我觉得这些观点都很司空见惯,
00:22
they've他们已经 become成为 clich老生常谈és of our society社会.
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在现实社会已经变成陈词滥调了。
00:25
And I think there are three.
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我想一共有这样三点。
00:27
One's那些 a claim要求: there has been a great decline下降 in trust相信,
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第一点是主张:信任感已经大幅地降低了。
00:31
very widely广泛 believed相信.
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这已经是有广泛共识的。
00:33
The second第二 is an aim目标: we should have more trust相信.
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第二点是目的:我们应该有更多的信任感。
00:38
And the third第三 is a task任务: we should rebuild重建 trust相信.
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第三点是任务:我们应该重建信任感。
00:43
I think that the claim要求, the aim目标 and the task任务
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我觉得人们对这个主张、目的和任务
00:48
are all misconceived误解.
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都有错误的认识。
00:50
So what I'm going to try to tell you today今天
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所以我今天要跟你们说的是
00:52
is a different不同 story故事 about a claim要求, an aim目标 and a task任务
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跟这种主张、目的和任务有所不同的观点。
00:56
which哪一个 I think give one quite相当 a lot better purchase采购 on the matter.
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我想让你们更好地理解信任。
01:01
First the claim要求: Why do people think trust相信 has declined下降?
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首先是主张:为什么人们认为信任感在降低呢?
01:06
And if I really think about it on the basis基础 of my own拥有 evidence证据,
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如果我在现有证据的基础上考虑,
01:09
I don't know the answer回答.
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我真的不知道答案是什么。
01:11
I'm inclined to think it may可能 have declined下降
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我倾向于认为信任感确实是有降低,
01:15
in some activities活动 or some institutions机构
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但那是在某些活动中,或者在某些机构里。
01:18
and it might威力 have grown长大的 in others其他.
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而在其他的方面也许是增加的。
01:20
I don't have an overview概观.
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我没法一概而论。
01:22
But, of course课程, I can look at the opinion意见 polls民意调查,
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但当然了,我可以去看看民意调查,
01:27
and the opinion意见 polls民意调查 are supposedly按说
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民意调查应该是
01:29
the source资源 of a belief信仰 that trust相信 has declined下降.
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觉得信任感在降低的出处。
01:33
When you actually其实 look at opinion意见 polls民意调查 across横过 time,
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但当你真的去看看不同时间的民意调查的话,
01:37
there's not much evidence证据 for that.
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其实没有多少证据支持这个观点。
01:39
That's to say, the people who were mistrusted不信任
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也就是说,那些
01:41
20 years年份 ago,
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在20年前就不被相信的人
01:43
principally原则上 journalists记者 and politicians政治家, are still mistrusted不信任.
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主要是记者和政客,现在仍不被信任。
01:47
And the people who were highly高度 trusted信任 20 years年份 ago
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而20年前就被高度信任的人,
01:51
are still rather highly高度 trusted信任: judges法官, nurses护士.
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比如法官和护士,现在仍得到高度的信任。
01:54
The rest休息 of us are in between之间,
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剩下的人就是居中了。
01:56
and by the way, the average平均 person in the street
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顺便说一下,在社会上这些居中的人,
01:59
is almost几乎 exactly究竟 midway中途.
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差不多就是完全居中。
02:01
But is that good evidence证据?
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但是这个证据说得过去吗?
02:03
What opinion意见 polls民意调查 record记录 is, of course课程, opinions意见.
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民意调查记录的当然就是一些人们的观点。
02:08
What else其他 can they record记录?
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要不然民意调查能记录什么?
02:09
So they're looking at the generic通用 attitudes态度
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不过就是一些普遍的态度。
02:13
that people report报告 when you ask them certain某些 questions问题.
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你问他们什么,他们就说什么。
02:16
Do you trust相信 politicians政治家? Do you trust相信 teachers教师?
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你信任政客吗?信任老师吗?
02:20
Now if somebody said to you, "Do you trust相信 greengrocers菜贩?
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如果有人问你,“你信任蔬菜商吗?”
02:24
Do you trust相信 fishmongers鱼贩?
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你信任卖鱼的吗?
02:26
Do you trust相信 elementary初级 school学校 teachers教师?"
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你信任小学老师吗?
02:28
you would probably大概 begin开始 by saying, "To do what?"
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你可能会问,“信任他们去做什么?”
02:32
And that would be a perfectly完美 sensible明智 response响应.
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这是一个非常明智的反问。
02:35
And you might威力 say, when you understood了解 the answer回答 to that,
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当你明白问题到底是什么, 你会说,
02:40
"Well, I trust相信 some of them, but not others其他."
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“嗯。我相信一些人,不相信另一些人。”
02:44
That's a perfectly完美 rational合理的 thing.
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非常理性的回答。
02:46
In short, in our real真实 lives生活,
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简而言之,在我们现实生活中,
02:49
we seek寻求 to place地点 trust相信 in a differentiated分化 way.
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我们以不同的方式来寻求信任。
02:52
We don't make an assumption假设 that the level水平 of trust相信
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我们不对信任感的程度做假设。
02:56
that we will have in every一切 instance of a certain某些 type类型
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我们会对特定类型进行具体分析。
02:59
of official官方 or office-holder办公室持有人 or type类型 of person
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那些公务员,官员之类的人,
03:03
is going to be uniform制服.
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会被类型化。
03:05
I might威力, for example, say that I certainly当然 trust相信
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比如说,我会说我当然相信
03:09
a certain某些 elementary初级 school学校 teacher老师 I know
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一个我知道的小学老师
03:11
to teach the reception招待会 class to read,
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会教会学生怎么阅读。
03:14
but in no way to drive驾驶 the school学校 minibus小巴.
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但是我不相信她可以开校车。
03:18
I might威力, after all, know that she wasn't a good driver司机.
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也许最终我知道她确实不是个好司机。
03:21
I might威力 trust相信 my most loquacious贫嘴 friend朋友
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我也许相信我那爱喝酒的朋友
03:24
to keep a conversation会话 going
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是个聊天的好伙伴。
03:26
but not -- but perhaps也许 not to keep a secret秘密.
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但我不会相信他是个守得住秘密的人。
03:36
Simple简单.
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就这么简单。
03:37
So if we've我们已经 got those evidence证据 in our ordinary普通 lives生活
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在日常生活中我们有了这样的证据,
03:42
of the way that trust相信 is differentiated分化,
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说信任感是有区分的,
03:44
why do we sort分类 of drop下降 all that intelligence情报
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那么为什么民意调查时我们一下子糊涂了,
03:47
when we think about trust相信 more abstractly抽象地?
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把信任感想得更概念化了呢?
03:51
I think the polls民意调查 are very bad guides导游
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我觉得民意调查是个很差劲的
03:54
to the level水平 of trust相信 that actually其实 exists存在,
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衡量信任感是否存在的依据。
03:57
because they try to obliterate the good judgment判断
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因为它抹杀了人们良好的判断力。
04:00
that goes into placing配售 trust相信.
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对考虑信任感的判断力。
04:04
Secondly其次, what about the aim目标?
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第二,那个目的是怎么回事儿呢?
04:06
The aim目标 is to have more trust相信.
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目的是我们需要更多的信任感。
04:09
Well frankly坦率地说, I think that's a stupid aim目标.
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坦白说,我觉得这个目的挺可笑的。
04:12
It's not what I would aim目标 at.
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这不是我想的那个目的。
04:14
I would aim目标 to have more trust相信 in the trustworthy可靠
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我会说,人们应该对值得信赖的(人)更加地信任。
04:17
but not in the untrustworthy靠不住.
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而不是去信任不值得信赖的人。
04:20
In fact事实, I aim目标 positively积极 to try not to trust相信 the untrustworthy靠不住.
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实际上,我所说的目的是尽量不要信任不值得信赖的人。
04:27
And I think, of those people who, for example,
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比如说,那些
04:30
placed放置 their savings with the very aptly恰当地 named命名 Mr先生. Madoff麦道夫,
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把自己的积蓄交给那个看起来很象样的
04:35
who then made制作 off with them,
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却把他们的钱都卷走的麦道夫先生
04:38
and I think of them, and I think, well, yes,
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的人,我觉得那些人呀,怎么说呢,对,
04:40
too much trust相信.
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太容易信任别人了。
04:42
More trust相信 is not an intelligent智能 aim目标 in this life.
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过度地信任别人不是一个很明智的目的。
04:46
Intelligently智能 placed放置 and intelligently智能 refused拒绝 trust相信
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明智地信任和明智地选择不信任
04:50
is the proper正确 aim目标.
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才是正确的目的。
04:52
Well once一旦 one says that, one says, yeah, okay,
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那么有人说,好呀,好,
04:56
that means手段 that what matters事项 in the first place地点
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这不就是说最重要的
04:59
is not trust相信 but trustworthiness诚信.
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不是要去信任,而是(对方的)信誉度吗?
05:02
It's judging判断 how trustworthy可靠 people are
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就是说要判断别人在某些方面
05:05
in particular特定 respects尊重.
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是否值得信任。
05:07
And I think that judgment判断 requires要求 us to look at three things.
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我觉得要想正确做出判断需要考虑三点。
05:10
Are they competent胜任? Are they honest诚实? Are they reliable可靠?
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要看他们是否称职?是否诚实?是否可靠?
05:15
And if we find that a person is competent胜任
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如果我们觉得一个人是称职的,
05:18
in the relevant相应 matters事项,
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在他自己的领域是称职的。
05:19
and reliable可靠 and honest诚实,
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而且是诚实可靠的。
05:21
we'll have a pretty漂亮 good reason原因 to trust相信 them,
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我们就有理由去相信他们,
05:23
because they'll他们会 be trustworthy可靠.
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因为他们是可信赖的。
05:26
But if, on the other hand, they're unreliable靠不住, we might威力 not.
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但是反过来,如果他们不可靠,那我们就不能信任他们。
05:29
I have friends朋友 who are competent胜任 and honest诚实,
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我有一些诚实可靠的朋友,
05:32
but I would not trust相信 them to post岗位 a letter,
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但我就信不着他们去帮我寄信,
05:33
because they're forgetful健忘.
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因为他们很健忘。
05:36
I have friends朋友 who are very confident信心
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我有些非常自信的朋友,
05:39
they can do certain某些 things,
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他们很能干,
05:41
but I realize实现 that they overestimate估计过高 their own拥有 competence权限.
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但是我觉得他们有些过于自信。
05:45
And I'm very glad高兴 to say, I don't think I have many许多 friends朋友
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当然我很高兴的是,我的朋友都是
05:48
who are competent胜任 and reliable可靠 but extremely非常 dishonest不诚实.
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称职可靠,又不是非常不诚实的。
05:51
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
05:52
If so, I haven't没有 yet然而 spotted it.
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也许有,我还没发现。
05:56
But that's what we're looking for:
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我们需要的就是:
05:58
trustworthiness诚信 before trust相信.
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信任别人之前要看他的信誉度。
06:00
Trust相信 is the response响应.
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信任是我们的反应。
06:02
Trustworthiness诚信 is what we have to judge法官.
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信誉度是需要我们来判断的。
06:04
And, of course课程, it's difficult.
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所以当然这不是容易做到的。
06:06
Across横过 the last few少数 decades几十年, we've我们已经 tried试着 to construct构造
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过去的几十年里,我们努力地建立
06:09
systems系统 of accountability问责 for all sorts排序 of institutions机构
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各种机构里的问责制度,
06:13
and professionals专业人士 and officials官员 and so on
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是否达到专业水准或者官方要求等等
06:15
that will make it easier更轻松 for us to judge法官 their trustworthiness诚信.
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这些(问责制度)使我们更容易判断(这些机构)是否有信誉。
06:19
A lot of these systems系统 have the converse交谈 effect影响.
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很多机构都有这样的逆反应。
06:23
They don't work as they're supposed应该 to.
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他们不象他们应该做的那样做事。
06:24
I remember记得 I was talking with a midwife助产士 who said,
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我记得和我一个助产士聊天,她说
06:29
"Well, you see, the problem问题 is it takes longer
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”你看看,现在的问题是我要
06:31
to do the paperwork证件 than to deliver交付 the baby宝宝."
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办个什么手续比接生一个孩子还难!“
06:35
And all over our public上市 life, our institutional制度 life,
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在我们的公共生活里,我们的机构生活里,
06:38
we find that problem问题,
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我们发现很多问题。
06:40
that the system系统 of accountability问责
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这些机构里的问责制度
06:43
that is meant意味着 to secure安全 trustworthiness诚信
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这些能保障自己的信誉
06:45
and evidence证据 of trustworthiness诚信
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能作为值得信任的依据的制度
06:48
is actually其实 doing the opposite对面.
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往往施行起来是相反的。
06:50
It is distracting分心 people who have to do difficult tasks任务,
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这就使人们难以专注自己的工作,
06:54
like midwives助产士, from doing them
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比如助产士们,
06:57
by requiring要求 them to tick the boxes盒子, as we say.
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让他们把时间浪费在填表上。就象我刚提到的。
07:00
You can all give your own拥有 examples例子 there.
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你们其实都有这样的经历。
07:02
So so much for the aim目标.
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关于目的要讲的很多很多。
07:04
The aim目标, I think, is more trustworthiness诚信,
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我想这个目的更重要的是对方的信誉度。
07:07
and that is going to be different不同
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那就完全不一样了。
07:09
if we are trying to be trustworthy可靠
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比如说我们努力去成为值得信任的人,
07:11
and communicate通信 our trustworthiness诚信 to other people,
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把我们值得信任的一面展示给别人。
07:14
and if we are trying to judge法官 whether是否 other people
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比如说我们先判断别人,
07:17
or office-holders公职人员 or politicians政治家 are trustworthy可靠.
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官员或者政客是否值得信任。
07:20
It's not easy简单. It is judgment判断, and simple简单 reaction反应,
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这不是容易的事。这是判断,是迅速反应,
07:25
attitudes态度, don't do adequately充分 here.
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是态度,在这里都讲不完。
07:30
Now thirdly第三, the task任务.
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那么第三点,关于任务。
07:33
Calling调用 the task任务 rebuilding重建 trust相信, I think,
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这个任务叫做重建信任感。
07:37
also gets得到 things backwards向后.
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这又是弄反了的。
07:38
It suggests提示 that you and I should rebuild重建 trust相信.
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这个任务建议你和我要重建信任。
07:43
Well, we can do that for ourselves我们自己.
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好吧,我们能对自己这么做,
07:46
We can rebuild重建 a bit of trustworthiness诚信.
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我们能重建一些自己的信誉,
07:48
We can do it two people together一起 trying to improve提高 trust相信.
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我们可以互相努力增加我们的信任。
07:52
But trust相信, in the end结束, is distinctive独特
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但关根到底,信任是很独特的。
07:55
because it's given特定 by other people.
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因为(信任)是来自他人的。
07:58
You can't rebuild重建 what other people give you.
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你不可能重建别人对你的看法。
08:01
You have to give them the basis基础
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你需要做出努力
08:04
for giving you their trust相信.
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让人家信任你。
08:07
So you have to, I think, be trustworthy可靠.
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我是说,你要成为一个值得信赖的人。
08:10
And that, of course课程, is because you can't fool傻子
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当然,这就是说你不能
08:12
all of the people all of the time, usually平时.
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在永远愚弄住所有的人,一般来说。
08:16
But you also have to provide提供 usable可用 evidence证据
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你得提供一些有用的依据,
08:21
that you are trustworthy可靠.
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让别人知道你是值得信赖的。
08:22
How to do it?
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应该怎么做?
08:24
Well every一切 day, all over the place地点, it's being存在 doneDONE
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其实每天,在不同得地方,
08:27
by ordinary普通 people, by officials官员, by institutions机构,
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普通人,办公人员,各个机构都在努力(博得信任),
08:30
quite相当 effectively有效.
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往往做得很有效呢。
08:32
Let me give you a simple简单 commercial广告 example.
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我给你举个简单的商家营销的例子,
08:35
The shop where I buy购买 my socks袜子 says I may可能 take them back,
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有个商店说(如果不满意)我可以把买的袜子退回去,
08:39
and they don't ask any questions问题.
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他们绝不问任何问题。
08:41
They take them back and give me the money
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他们收退货,我拿退货款。
08:43
or give me the pair of socks袜子 of the color颜色 I wanted.
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或者给我换是我喜欢颜色的袜子。
08:46
That's super. I trust相信 them
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这很好。我信任他们。
08:48
because they have made制作 themselves他们自己 vulnerable弱势 to me.
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因为他们让我觉得他们是处于弱势。
08:51
I think there's a big lesson in that.
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我觉得这很有教益。
08:53
If you make yourself你自己 vulnerable弱势 to the other party派对,
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如果对于别人,你使自己处于弱势,
08:56
then that is very good evidence证据 that you are trustworthy可靠
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这就是个很好的值得信任的依据。
09:00
and you have confidence置信度 in what you are saying.
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对自己说的话就有自信。
09:03
So in the end结束, I think what we are aiming瞄准 for
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所以最终呢,我们的意图
09:06
is not very difficult to discern辨别.
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就不那么难辨别了。
09:09
It is relationships关系 in which哪一个 people are trustworthy可靠
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人们是否值得信任是一种人和人之间的关系。
09:13
and can judge法官 when and how the other person
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我们可以判断什么时候人们是如何
09:17
is trustworthy可靠.
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值得你信任的。
09:18
So the moral道德 of all this is,
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从道义上说,
09:22
we need to think much less about trust相信,
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我们要少考虑信任,
09:25
let alone单独 about attitudes态度 of trust相信
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更不要说对信任的态度,
09:29
detected检测 or mis-detected错误检测 by opinion意见 polls民意调查,
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或者凭着民意测验来判断或者误判,
09:33
much more about being存在 trustworthy可靠,
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让我们更关注于成为值得信赖的人。
09:35
and how you give people adequate充足, useful有用
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关注于如何提供恰当、有益
09:39
and simple简单 evidence证据 that you're trustworthy可靠.
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简单的依据让人们觉得你是可以信赖的。
09:42
Thanks谢谢.
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谢谢!
09:43
(Applause掌声)
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(掌声)
Translated by Lin Piao
Reviewed by jihan jung

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Onora O'Neill - Philosopher
Baroness Onora O'Neill is a philosopher who focuses on international justice and the roles of trust and accountability in public life.

Why you should listen

Philosopher Baroness Onora O'Neill thinks we are perverting trust. Considering how much stock we put into trust and assessing trusting attitudes, it's something we don't really understand, argues O'Neill. What we really need, she says, is not trust -- but trustworthiness. In addition to her study of how we (wrongly) approach trust and accountability in civic life, O'Neill also focuses on bioethics and international justice.

O'Neill's most recent book, co-written with Neil Manson is Rethinking Informed Consent in Bioethics, published in 2007. She was Principal of Newnham College, a college of the University of Cambridge, from 1992 to 2006, and President of the British Academy from 2005 to 2009. In early 2013 O'Neill was confirmed as the new Chair of England's Equality and Human Rights Commission. She is a crossbench member of the House of Lords.

More profile about the speaker
Onora O'Neill | Speaker | TED.com