TEDGlobal 2014
Tasso Azevedo: Hopeful lessons from the battle to save rainforests
塔索•阿泽凡多: 拯救雨林的收获
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“拯救雨林”是个由来已久的环保口号，但塔索•阿泽凡多带领我们了解这场环保斗争是如何开展的。经历了 1990 年代疯狂地森林砍伐后，在新法规（以及透明化数据）的帮助下，巴西的森林破坏率得以减缓。这就足够了吗？远远不是。塔索给我们接下来的发展道路提出五条理念。同时他也质问，我们能否把巴西学到的经验推广运用到一个更加棘手的问题：全球气候变化。
Tasso Azevedo - Forester and sustainability activist
Tasso Azevedo has helped reduce the rate of deforestation in Brazil’s Amazon rainforest by 75 percent — and inspired similar efforts around the world. Full bio
Tasso Azevedo has helped reduce the rate of deforestation in Brazil’s Amazon rainforest by 75 percent — and inspired similar efforts around the world. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
当葡萄牙人在 500 年前
到达拉丁美洲大陆时，
到达拉丁美洲大陆时，
00:12
When the Portuguese arrived
in Latin America about 500 years ago,
in Latin America about 500 years ago,
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00:17
they obviously found
this amazing tropical forest.
this amazing tropical forest.
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很显然，他们发现了
这片神奇的热带雨林。
这片神奇的热带雨林。
00:20
And among all this biodiversity
that they had never seen before,
that they had never seen before,
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在他们从未见过的多样化生物中，
00:25
they found one species that caught
their attention very quickly.
their attention very quickly.
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有一种生物很快引起了他们的注意。
00:29
This species, when you cut the bark,
you find a very dark red resin
you find a very dark red resin
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这种生物，当你切开它的树皮，
就会发现一种暗红色的树脂。
就会发现一种暗红色的树脂。
00:35
that was very good to paint
and dye fabric to make clothes.
and dye fabric to make clothes.
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它是制作布料染色剂的上佳原料。
00:41
The indigenous people called
this species pau brasil,
this species pau brasil,
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土著叫它“巴西木”，
00:45
and that's the reason why this land became
"land of Brasil," and later on, Brazil.
"land of Brasil," and later on, Brazil.
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这也是为何这片地方成为“巴西之地”，
也就是后来的“巴西”。
也就是后来的“巴西”。
00:51
That's the only country in the world
that has the name of a tree.
that has the name of a tree.
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“巴西”成为了世界上
唯一一个以树为名的国家。
唯一一个以树为名的国家。
00:56
So you can imagine that it's very cool
to be a forester in Brazil,
to be a forester in Brazil,
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你可以想象，在巴西，
做一个护林员是很拉风的，
做一个护林员是很拉风的，
01:01
among other reasons.
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这只是众多原因之一。
01:03
Forest products are all around us.
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林产品在我们周围随处可见。
01:06
Apart from all those products,
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除了这些产品，森林对气候调节
起到非常重要的作用。
起到非常重要的作用。
01:08
the forest is very important
for climate regulation.
for climate regulation.
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01:12
In Brazil, almost 70 percent
of the evaporation that makes rain
of the evaporation that makes rain
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在巴西，构成雨的70%的水蒸气
01:17
actually comes from the forest.
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实际上来自于森林。
01:19
Just the Amazon pumps to the atmosphere
20 billion tons of water every day.
20 billion tons of water every day.
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仅亚马逊雨林就每天
向大气蒸发200亿吨水。
向大气蒸发200亿吨水。
01:28
This is more than what the Amazon River,
which is the largest river in the world,
which is the largest river in the world,
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这比亚马逊河，世界上最大的河，
01:33
puts in the sea per day,
which is 17 billion tons.
which is 17 billion tons.
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每天注入大海的
170 亿吨水还要多，
170 亿吨水还要多，
01:38
If we had to boil water to get
the same effect as evapotranspiration,
the same effect as evapotranspiration,
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如果我们需要通过烧水
来达到同样的蒸发量，
来达到同样的蒸发量，
01:43
we would need six months of the entire
power generation capacity of the world.
power generation capacity of the world.
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我们需要六个月的全球发电总量。
01:49
So it's a hell of a service for all of us.
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所以森林为我们立下了汗马功劳。
01:52
We have in the world
about four billion hectares of forests.
about four billion hectares of forests.
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全世界大概有四十亿公顷森林。
01:56
This is more or less China, U.S.,
Canada and Brazil all together,
Canada and Brazil all together,
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这大概是中国、美国、
加拿大和巴西的面积总和，
加拿大和巴西的面积总和，
02:02
in terms of size, to have an idea.
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基本上是这么个概念。
02:04
Three quarters of that
is in the temperate zone,
is in the temperate zone,
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其中四分之三是在温带，
02:08
and just one quarter is in the tropics,
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仅仅四分之一在热带。
02:12
but this one quarter, one billion
hectares, holds most of the biodiversity,
hectares, holds most of the biodiversity,
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但就是这四分之一，十亿公顷，
拥有着最丰富的生物多样性，
拥有着最丰富的生物多样性，
02:18
and very importantly, 50 percent
of the living biomass, the carbon.
of the living biomass, the carbon.
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非常重要的是，这片区域拥有
高达 50% 的生物质能，即“碳”。
高达 50% 的生物质能，即“碳”。
02:24
Now, we used to have
six billion hectares of forest --
six billion hectares of forest --
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我们曾有 60 亿公顷的森林，
02:28
50 percent more than
what we have -- 2,000 years ago.
what we have -- 2,000 years ago.
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比我们现在多 50％ —
但那是在 2000 年以前。
但那是在 2000 年以前。
02:32
We've actually lost two billion hectares
in the last 2,000 years.
in the last 2,000 years.
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在过去的 2000 年里，
我们总共失去了 20 亿公顷森林。
我们总共失去了 20 亿公顷森林。
02:35
But in the last 100 years,
we lost half of that.
we lost half of that.
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但是在最近的 100 年里，
我们失去了其中的一半。
我们失去了其中的一半。
02:39
That was when we shifted
from deforestation of temperate forests
from deforestation of temperate forests
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那正是当我们将森林砍伐
从温带转移至热带。
从温带转移至热带。
02:44
to deforestation of tropical forests.
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02:48
So think of this: In 100 years,
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大家想一想：在 100 年里，
02:51
we lost the same amount
of forest in the tropics
of forest in the tropics
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我们所失去的热带森林总量
02:55
that we lost in 2,000 years
in temperate forests.
in temperate forests.
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跟我们在 2000 年里
失去的温带森林一样多。
失去的温带森林一样多。
02:58
That's the speed of the destruction
that we are having.
that we are having.
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这就是我们破坏环境的速度。
03:02
Now, Brazil is an important
piece of this puzzle.
piece of this puzzle.
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现在，巴西是解决
这个问题关键的一环。
这个问题关键的一环。
03:06
We have the second largest
forest in the world, just after Russia.
forest in the world, just after Russia.
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我们有仅次于俄罗斯的
第二大森林覆盖率，
第二大森林覆盖率，
03:10
It means 12 percent of all
the world's forests are in Brazil,
the world's forests are in Brazil,
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这意味着全世界
12% 的森林都在巴西，
12% 的森林都在巴西，
03:14
most of that in the Amazon.
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而这些绝大部分在亚马逊地区。
03:16
It's the largest piece of forest we have.
It's a very big, large area.
It's a very big, large area.
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这是我们所拥有的最广的森林，
是一片非常广阔的区域。
是一片非常广阔的区域。
03:19
You can see that you could fit
many of the European countries there.
many of the European countries there.
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你可以把很多欧洲国家塞进这里来。
03:22
We still have 80 percent
of the forest cover.
of the forest cover.
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我们仍有80%的森林覆盖率。
03:26
That's the good news.
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这是个好消息。
03:28
But we lost 15 percent in just 30 years.
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但是在过去 30 年里，
我们失去了其中的 15%。
我们失去了其中的 15%。
03:32
So if you go with that speed,
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按照个速度，用不了不久，
03:34
very soon, we will loose this powerful
pump that we have in the Amazon
pump that we have in the Amazon
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我们就会失去亚马逊
这个气候调节的天然泵。
这个气候调节的天然泵。
03:39
that regulates our climate.
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03:42
Deforestation was growing
fast and accelerating
fast and accelerating
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在 90 年代末、2000 年初，
森林破坏的速度很快并且在加速。
森林破坏的速度很快并且在加速。
03:44
at the end of the '90s
and the beginning of the 2000s.
and the beginning of the 2000s.
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03:47
(Chainsaw sound)
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（锯子声）
03:51
(Sound of falling tree)
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（树倒下的声音）
03:55
Twenty-seven thousand
square kilometers in one year.
square kilometers in one year.
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每年27000平方公里，
也就是270万公顷。
03:59
This is 2.7 million hectares.
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04:03
It's almost like half
of Costa Rica every year.
of Costa Rica every year.
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相当于每年失去半个
哥斯达黎加这么大的森林。
哥斯达黎加这么大的森林。
04:09
So at this moment -- this is 2003, 2004 --
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在这个时候 — 这是2003、2004 —
04:13
I happened to be coming to work
in the government.
in the government.
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我碰巧开始在政府就职。
04:18
And together with other teammates
in the National Forest Department,
in the National Forest Department,
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我与其他国家林业部的队友一起，
04:22
we were assigned a task to join a team
and find out the causes of deforestation,
and find out the causes of deforestation,
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被分配到一个小组
去探究森林破坏的原因，
去探究森林破坏的原因，
04:28
and make a plan to combat that
at a national level,
at a national level,
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并且制定一个全国性的
战略改革计划，
战略改革计划，
04:31
involving the local governments,
the civil society,
the civil society,
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在当地政、民间组织、
04:34
business, local communities,
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商业团体、地方社区的
04:36
in an effort that could
tackle those causes.
tackle those causes.
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共同努力解决这些问题。
04:39
So we came up with this plan
with 144 actions in different areas.
with 144 actions in different areas.
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我们在不同层面上
提出了144条方案。
提出了144条方案。
04:45
Now I will go through
all of them one by one --
all of them one by one --
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现在我逐一讲解 —
04:47
no, just giving some examples
of what we had done in the next few years.
of what we had done in the next few years.
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开玩笑，只是举例说说
我们之后几年的一些举措。
我们之后几年的一些举措。
04:54
So the first thing, we set up a system
with the national space agency
with the national space agency
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首先，我们同国家航天局
建立了一个系统，
建立了一个系统，
04:59
that could actually see
where deforestation is happening,
where deforestation is happening,
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可以监测到哪里的森林正在破坏，
05:02
almost in real time.
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几乎是实时的。
05:04
So now in Brazil,
we have this system, DETER,
we have this system, DETER,
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现在在巴西，我们有DETER系统，
05:06
where every month,
or every two months,
or every two months,
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每个月，或者每两个月，
05:10
we get information on
where deforestation is happening
where deforestation is happening
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我们得到森林破坏情况的数据，
05:12
so we can actually act
when it's happening.
when it's happening.
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从而在破坏发生时做出即时反应。
05:15
And all the information
is fully transparent
is fully transparent
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这些信息全部是公开透明的，
05:17
so others can replicate that
in independent systems.
in independent systems.
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所以其他人可以将信息
重复利用到其他独立系统。
重复利用到其他独立系统。
05:20
This allows us, among other things,
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这让我们得以扣押通过非法途径
采伐的140万立方米木料。
采伐的140万立方米木料。
05:22
to apprehend 1.4 million cubic meters
of logs that were illegally taken.
of logs that were illegally taken.
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05:29
Part of that we saw and sell,
and all the revenue becomes a fund
and all the revenue becomes a fund
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其中的一部分我们锯开售卖，
全部收入归入一个基金，
全部收入归入一个基金，
05:35
that now funds conservation projects
of local communities as an endowment fund.
of local communities as an endowment fund.
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用于资助当地保护项目。
05:40
This also allows us
to make a big operation
to make a big operation
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这使得我们有更大的行动力，
05:43
to seize corruption and illegal activities
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来缉获腐败和违法行为，
05:45
that ended up having 700 people in prison,
including a lot of public servants.
including a lot of public servants.
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直接导致700人入狱，
甚至包括不少公职人员。
甚至包括不少公职人员。
05:52
Then we made the connection
that areas that have been doing
that areas that have been doing
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接下来，通过连带关系，
我们使非法开采的地区
我们使非法开采的地区
05:56
illegal deforestation should not get
any kind of credit or finance.
any kind of credit or finance.
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无法得到信贷和财政资助。
06:00
So we cut this through the bank system
and then linked this to the end users.
and then linked this to the end users.
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我们越过银行系统与终端用户相连。
06:05
So supermarkets,
the slaughterhouses, and so on
the slaughterhouses, and so on
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超市，屠宰场，等等。
06:07
that buy products
from illegal clear-cut areas,
from illegal clear-cut areas,
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只要向保护区购买林产品，
06:10
they also can be liable
for the deforestation.
for the deforestation.
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它们也会被追责。
06:14
So making all these connections to help
to push the problem down.
to push the problem down.
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所以连带追责对问题的改善
起到了一定效果。
起到了一定效果。
06:18
And also we work a lot
on land tenure issues.
on land tenure issues.
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同时我们在土地使用权的问题上
采取了很多工作。
采取了很多工作。
06:21
It's very important for conflicts.
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这对解决争端意义重大。
06:23
Fifty million hectares
of protected areas were created,
of protected areas were created,
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我们创造了 5000 万公顷的保护用地，
06:26
which is an area the size of Spain.
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大约是一个西班牙的面积。
06:32
And of those, eight million
were indigenous lands.
were indigenous lands.
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其中 800 万公顷是土著土地。
06:36
Now we start to see results.
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我们看到一些成效。
06:40
So in the last 10 years,
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过去的十年里，
06:42
deforestation came down
in Brazil 75 percent.
in Brazil 75 percent.
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巴西的森林退化减低了75%。
06:46
(Applause)
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（掌声）
06:52
So if we compare it
with the average deforestation
with the average deforestation
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如果把平均退化率的数值
06:55
that we had in the last decade,
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跟过去十年进行比较的话，
06:58
we saved 8.7 million hectares,
which is the size of Austria.
which is the size of Austria.
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我们保护了870万公顷的森林，
相当于奥地利的面积。
相当于奥地利的面积。
07:03
But more importantly,
it avoided the emission
it avoided the emission
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更重要的是，这减少了大气中
07:05
of three billion tons
of CO2 in the atmosphere.
of CO2 in the atmosphere.
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30 亿吨二氧化碳排放量。
07:08
This is by far the largest contribution
to reduce greenhouse gas emissions,
to reduce greenhouse gas emissions,
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这是至今为止对于温室气体减排
07:13
until today, as a positive action.
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起到积极效应的一个最重要的举措。
07:17
One may think that when you do
these kinds of actions
these kinds of actions
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有人担忧，当我们采取这些
减少和遏制采伐的措施时，
减少和遏制采伐的措施时，
07:20
to decrease, to push down deforestation,
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07:24
you will have an economic impact
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经济会受到影响。
07:26
because you will not have
economic activity or something like that.
economic activity or something like that.
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因为你将无法开展一些经济活动。
07:30
But it's interesting to know
that it's quite the opposite.
that it's quite the opposite.
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但有意思的是，事实恰恰相反。
07:33
In fact, in the period when we have
the deepest decline of deforestation,
the deepest decline of deforestation,
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在这段采伐下降最严重的时期，
07:37
the economy grew, on average,
double from the previous decade,
double from the previous decade,
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经济增长平均达到了过去十年的一倍。
07:42
when deforestation was actually going up.
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07:44
So it's a good lesson for us.
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这给我们上了一课。
07:46
Maybe this is completely disconnected,
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或许它们毫无关联，
07:49
as we just learned by having
deforestation come down.
deforestation come down.
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恰巧发生在采伐量下降的时期。
07:53
Now this is all good news,
and it's quite an achievement,
and it's quite an achievement,
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目前全都是好消息、大成就，
07:57
and we obviously should be
very proud about that.
very proud about that.
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我们当然引以为豪。
08:00
But it's not even close to sufficient.
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但这还远远不够。
08:03
In fact, if you think about
the deforestation in the Amazon in 2013,
the deforestation in the Amazon in 2013,
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事实上，当你想想亚马逊
2013 年的砍伐量，
2013 年的砍伐量，
08:08
that was over half a million hectares,
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就有超过50万公顷。
08:11
which means that every minute,
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这意味着每一分钟，
08:14
an area the size of two soccer fields
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就有两片足球场大小的森林遭到破坏，
08:17
is being cut in the Amazon
last year, just last year.
last year, just last year.
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去年，就在去年。
08:21
If we sum up the deforestation we have
in the other biomes in Brazil,
in the other biomes in Brazil,
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如果把巴西其他生态群落的
砍伐量相加，
砍伐量相加，
08:25
we are talking about still the largest
deforestation rate in the world.
deforestation rate in the world.
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我们得到的还是全世界
最大的森林破坏率。
最大的森林破坏率。
08:31
It's more or less like
we are forest heroes,
we are forest heroes,
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这大概是说，我们既是森林的守护神，
08:34
but still deforestation champions.
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同时又是森林的刽子手。
08:37
So we can't be satisfied,
not even close to satisfied.
not even close to satisfied.
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所以我们不敢自满，远不能自满。
08:42
So the next step, I think,
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下一阶段，我认为，
08:44
is to fight to have zero loss
of forest cover in Brazil
of forest cover in Brazil
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是争取在2020年，
达到巴西境内森林零砍伐。
达到巴西境内森林零砍伐。
08:48
and to have that as a goal for 2020.
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08:52
That's our next step.
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这是我们的下一个目标。
08:53
Now I've always been interested
in the relationship
in the relationship
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现在我一直着迷于这种
气候改变与森林间的关系。
气候改变与森林间的关系。
08:56
between climate change and forests.
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08:58
First, because 15 percent of greenhouse
gas emissions come from deforestation,
gas emissions come from deforestation,
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首先，因为 15% 的温室
气体排放来源于森林砍伐，
气体排放来源于森林砍伐，
09:04
so it's a big part of the problem.
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所以这是问题的一个重要部分。
09:06
But also, forests can be
a big part of the solution
a big part of the solution
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但同时，森林也是解决方案的
一个重要部分，
一个重要部分，
09:09
since that's the best way we know
to sink, capture and store carbon.
to sink, capture and store carbon.
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正因我们所知的最有效的
解决方案就是沉积、捕捉、储存碳。
解决方案就是沉积、捕捉、储存碳。
09:16
Now, there is another relationship
of climate and forests
of climate and forests
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气候和森林之间还有一种关系，
09:19
that really stuck me in 2008
and made me change my career
and made me change my career
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它在 2008 年引起我深思，
并因此让我的职业生涯
并因此让我的职业生涯
09:23
from forests to working
with climate change.
with climate change.
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从森林转向为气候变化。
09:27
I went to visit Canada,
in British Columbia,
in British Columbia,
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我去访问了加拿大，在英属哥伦比亚，
09:29
together with the chiefs of
the forest services of other countries
the forest services of other countries
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同行的还有其他同盟国的
林业部门长官，
林业部门长官，
09:34
that we have a kind of alliance of them,
like Canada, Russia, India, China, U.S.
like Canada, Russia, India, China, U.S.
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比如加拿大、俄罗斯、印度、中国、美国。
09:41
And when we were there
we learned about this pine beetle
we learned about this pine beetle
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在那里，我们认识了啃噬
加拿大森林的松树甲虫。
加拿大森林的松树甲虫。
09:46
that is literally eating
the forests in Canada.
the forests in Canada.
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09:49
What we see here, those brown trees,
these are really dead trees.
these are really dead trees.
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我们在这看到的，
这些棕黄色的都已经枯死。
这些棕黄色的都已经枯死。
09:55
They are standing dead trees
because of the larvae of the beetle.
because of the larvae of the beetle.
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这都归罪于松树甲虫的幼虫。
10:00
What happens is that this beetle
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事实是这些甲虫
受冬季寒冷的天气控制。
受冬季寒冷的天气控制。
10:03
is controlled by
the cold weather in the winter.
the cold weather in the winter.
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10:06
For many years now, they don't have
the sufficient cold weather
the sufficient cold weather
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在多年里，我们都没有够多的寒冬
10:09
to actually control
the population of this beetle.
the population of this beetle.
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来控制甲虫的数量。
10:13
And it became a disease
that is really killing billions of trees.
that is really killing billions of trees.
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然而这衍生为一种病害，
数亿植株遭到灭顶之灾。
数亿植株遭到灭顶之灾。
10:20
So I came back with this notion
that the forest is actually
that the forest is actually
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所以回来以后，我产生了一个概念：
10:24
one of the earliest and most affected
victims of climate change.
victims of climate change.
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森林事实上是气候改变的
最初受害者之一。
最初受害者之一。
10:29
So I was thinking,
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我想，如果我能与同僚们
成功地抑制森林退化，
成功地抑制森林退化，
10:31
if I succeed in working
with all my colleagues
with all my colleagues
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10:35
to actually help to stop deforestation,
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10:38
maybe we will lose the battle
later on for climate change
later on for climate change
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或许今后我们也将在气候改变的对决中
10:42
by floods, heat, fires and so on.
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成为洪水、炎热、烈火等
其他灾害的手下败将。
其他灾害的手下败将。
10:46
So I decided to leave the forest service
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所以我决定离开林业局，
10:50
and start to work directly
on climate change,
on climate change,
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直接致力于气候改变的工作，
10:53
find a way to think and understand
the challenge, and go from there.
the challenge, and go from there.
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找到一种方式来思考和理解
所面临的挑战，并从此出发。
所面临的挑战，并从此出发。
10:57
Now, the challenge of climate change
is pretty straightforward.
is pretty straightforward.
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现在，气候改变的挑战非常明了。
11:02
The goal is very clear.
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目标是明确的。
11:03
We want to limit the increase
of the average temperature
of the average temperature
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我们希望全球平均气温的升高
11:07
of the planet to two degrees.
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控制在 2℃ 之内。
11:10
There are several reasons for that.
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有诸多原因，
11:11
I will not get into that now.
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我现在先不详谈。
11:13
But in order to get
to this limit of two degrees,
to this limit of two degrees,
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但为了得到这 2℃ 的限制 —
11:17
which is possible for us to survive,
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也就为我们赢得了生存空间，
11:21
the IPCC, the Intergovernmental
Panel on Climate Change,
Panel on Climate Change,
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IPCC — 政府间气候变化专门委员会，
11:26
defines that we have a budget of emissions
of 1,000 billion tons of CO2
of 1,000 billion tons of CO2
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限定说到本世纪末，二氧化碳排放量
配额是 10000 亿吨。
配额是 10000 亿吨。
11:33
from now until the end of the century.
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11:36
So if we divide this
by the number of years,
by the number of years,
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将这个配额分配到每年的话，
11:39
what we have is an average budget
of 11 billion tons of CO2 per year.
of 11 billion tons of CO2 per year.
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我们平均每年可以排放
110 亿的二氧化碳。
110 亿的二氧化碳。
11:45
Now what is one ton of CO2?
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一吨的二氧化碳有多少呢？
11:48
It's more or less what one small car,
running 20 kilometers a day,
running 20 kilometers a day,
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如果一辆小车每天开 20 公里，
11:54
will emit in one year.
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差不多累积一年的排放量。
11:56
Or it's one flight, one way,
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或者是一趟航班，
11:58
from São Paulo to Johannesburg
or to London, one way.
or to London, one way.
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单程从圣保罗飞往约翰内斯堡或伦敦，
单程的排放量。
单程的排放量。
12:02
Two ways, two tons.
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往返就是两吨。
12:03
So 11 billion tons is twice that.
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110亿吨是我们当下
每年排放量的两倍，
每年排放量的两倍，
12:07
Now the emissions today
are 50 billion tons, and it's growing.
are 50 billion tons, and it's growing.
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我们当今的排放量500亿吨，
还在持续增长。
还在持续增长。
12:14
It's growing and maybe
it will be 61 by 2020.
it will be 61 by 2020.
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可能在 2020 年达到 610 亿吨。
12:18
Now we need to go down to 10 by 2050.
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我们需要在 2050 年前
把它降低到 100 亿。
把它降低到 100 亿。
12:23
And while this happens,
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与此同时，
12:25
the population will grow
from seven to nine billion people,
from seven to nine billion people,
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全球人口将从现在的 70 亿
增长到 90 亿，
增长到 90 亿，
12:28
the economy will grow
from 60 trillion dollars in 2010
from 60 trillion dollars in 2010
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经济规模将从 2010 年的
60 兆增长到 200 兆。
60 兆增长到 200 兆。
12:31
to 200 trillion dollars.
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12:33
And so what we need to do
is to be much more efficient
is to be much more efficient
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所以我们需要更有效率地
12:37
in a way that we can go
from seven tons of carbon per capita
from seven tons of carbon per capita
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把人均二氧化碳排放量从 7 吨
降低到每人、每年差不多 1 吨。
降低到每人、每年差不多 1 吨。
12:42
per person, per year,
into something like one.
into something like one.
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12:47
You have to choose.
You take the airplane or you have a car.
You take the airplane or you have a car.
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我们必须做出选择。
你是搭乘飞机呢，还是拥有汽车。
你是搭乘飞机呢，还是拥有汽车。
12:52
So the question is, can we make it?
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问题来了，我们能够做到吗？
12:54
And that's the exactly the same question
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这也是我在森林退化研究里
碰到的一个同样的问题。
碰到的一个同样的问题。
12:56
I got when I was developing
a plan to combat deforestation.
a plan to combat deforestation.
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13:01
It's such a big problem, so complex.
Can we really do it?
Can we really do it?
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问题如此庞大，如此复杂。
我们可以做到吗？
我们可以做到吗？
13:05
I think so. Think of this:
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我觉得可以。
13:08
Deforestation means 60 percent
of the greenhouse gas emissions
of the greenhouse gas emissions
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试想，森林退化造成了着过去十年里
巴西 60% 的温室气体排放。
巴西 60% 的温室气体排放。
13:13
in Brazil in the last decade.
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13:15
Now it's a little bit
less than 30 percent.
less than 30 percent.
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这个数字如今不到 30% 。
13:17
In the world, 60 percent is energy.
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当今世界，60% 多的排放来自能源。
13:21
So if we can tackle directly the energy,
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如果我们直接从能源入手，
13:25
the same way we could
tackle deforestation,
tackle deforestation,
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就用我们解决森林退化的手段，
13:27
maybe we can have a chance.
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可能值得一试。
13:29
So there are five things
that I think we should do.
that I think we should do.
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所以我们可以做的有五点：
13:33
First, we need to disconnect development
from carbon emissions.
from carbon emissions.
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首先，我们需要把发展
从碳排放中脱离出来。
从碳排放中脱离出来。
13:37
We don't need to clear-cut all the forests
to actually get more jobs
to actually get more jobs
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我们并不需要通过砍伐森林
来创造工作、农业或者商业利益。
13:43
and agriculture and have more economy.
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13:45
That's what we proved
when we decreased deforestation
when we decreased deforestation
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我们在降低森林砍伐率的同时
就已经证明了经济可以持续增长。
就已经证明了经济可以持续增长。
13:48
and the economy continued to grow.
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能源方面也是如此。
13:50
Same thing could happen
in the energy sector.
in the energy sector.
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第二，我们必须在正确的地方
给予奖励引导。
给予奖励引导。
13:54
Second, we have to move
the incentives to the right place.
the incentives to the right place.
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13:57
Today, 500 billion dollars a year
goes into subsidies for fossil fuels.
goes into subsidies for fossil fuels.
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今天，每年有 5 千亿元
被用于对化石燃料的补贴。
被用于对化石燃料的补贴。
14:03
Why don't we put a price on carbon
and transfer this to the renewable energy?
and transfer this to the renewable energy?
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为什么不在碳上涨价，
贴补给可再生能源？
贴补给可再生能源？
14:08
Third, we need to measure
and make it transparent
and make it transparent
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第三，我们需要监测并发布
14:11
where, when and who
is emitting greenhouse gases
is emitting greenhouse gases
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谁在何时何地排放了温室气体，
14:14
so we can have actions specifically
for each one of those opportunities.
for each one of those opportunities.
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我们得以有针对性地
对每一次行为作出反应。
对每一次行为作出反应。
14:19
Fourth, we need to leapfrog
the routes of development,
the routes of development,
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第四，我们需要跳跃式发展前进，
14:23
which means, you don't need
to go to the landline telephone
to go to the landline telephone
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这意味着，我们不必在得到手机前
一定先装个固定电话。
一定先装个固定电话。
14:26
before you get to the mobile phones.
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14:29
Same way we don't need
to go to fossil fuels
to go to fossil fuels
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同样，我们也不必让 10 亿人口
必须先依赖于化石燃料。
必须先依赖于化石燃料。
14:31
to the one billion people
who don't have access to energy
who don't have access to energy
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才能享用清洁能源。
14:33
before we get to the clean energy.
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第五点，也是最后一点，
14:36
And fifth and last,
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14:37
we need to share responsibility
between governments,
between governments,
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我们需要和不同的政府、
商业、民政组织分担责任。
商业、民政组织分担责任。
14:40
business and civil society.
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14:43
There is work to do for everybody,
and we need to have everybody on board.
and we need to have everybody on board.
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每个人都肩负使命，
我们需要大家携手前行。
我们需要大家携手前行。
14:48
So to finalize,
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最后，我相信未来并非一场宿命，
14:49
I think the future is not like a fate
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14:53
that you have to just go
as business as usual goes.
as business as usual goes.
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一场商业世界你不得不遵循的宿命。
14:56
We need to have the courage
to actually change the route,
to actually change the route,
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我们需要勇气打破常规，
拥抱新的理念，
拥抱新的理念，
14:59
invest in something new,
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我们需要认识到
我们有能力改变常规。
我们有能力改变常规。
15:01
think that we can actually
change the route.
change the route.
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15:04
I think we are doing this
with deforestation in Brazil,
with deforestation in Brazil,
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在解决巴西森林退化的问题上，
我认为我们已经做到了。
我认为我们已经做到了。
15:07
and I hope we can do it also
with climate change in the world.
with climate change in the world.
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我希望应对全球气候变化的挑战，
我们也能办到。
我们也能办到。
15:10
Thank you.
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谢谢。
15:11
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Tasso Azevedo - Forester and sustainability activistTasso Azevedo has helped reduce the rate of deforestation in Brazil’s Amazon rainforest by 75 percent — and inspired similar efforts around the world.
Why you should listen
Tasso Azevedo founded the Brazilian non-governmental organization Imaflora in 1995 to create alternatives to deforestation. It became the leading environmental certification institution in Brazil. In 2003 he was appointed as the first director general of Brazil's National Forest Service.
In that job, by showing how the health of the Amazon rainforest is directly connected to his country’s economic stability and energy security, he led the implementation of an innovative framework of incentives for sustainable forestry that contributed to reduce the ate of deforestation in the Amazon by 75 percent -- and Brazil's greenhouse gas emissions by one-third. Today, Azevedo is focused on addressing climate change globally.
Tasso Azevedo | Speaker | TED.com