TED2014
Rob Knight: How our microbes make us who we are
罗博·奈特: 我们体内的微生物是、如何塑造了我们
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罗博·奈特是一个人类微生物学的开拓者，我们体内微小的单细胞生物群对于我们的健康有着巨大未知的影响。他说：”你所携带的三磅的微生物可能比你基因组所携带的单个基因更重要。“让我们来找出其中的原因。
Rob Knight - Microbial ecologist
Rob Knight explores the unseen microbial world that exists literally right under our noses -- and everywhere else on (and in) our bodies. Full bio
Rob Knight explores the unseen microbial world that exists literally right under our noses -- and everywhere else on (and in) our bodies. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
We humans have always been very concerned
about the health of our bodies,
about the health of our bodies,
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我们人类一直都关注着身体健康，
00:17
but we haven't always been that good
at figuring out what's important.
at figuring out what's important.
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但却并未找到其中的关键之处。
00:21
Take the ancient Egyptians, for example:
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拿古埃及人举个例子：
00:23
very concerned about the body parts
they thought they'd need in the afterlife,
they thought they'd need in the afterlife,
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他们非常关注身体的各部分，
认为在来生会用到，
认为在来生会用到，
00:27
but they left some parts out.
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但是他们却忽略了一些部位。
00:29
This part, for example.
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比如这个部分。
00:32
Although they very carefully
preserved the stomach, the lungs,
preserved the stomach, the lungs,
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尽管他们非常小心地保存着胃，肺，
00:35
the liver, and so forth,
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肝，等等，
00:36
they just mushed up the brain,
drained it out through the nose,
drained it out through the nose,
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但是他们会把大脑搅成糊
然后从鼻子抽出，
然后从鼻子抽出，
00:39
and threw it away,
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然后扔掉，
00:41
which makes sense, really,
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这其实也符合逻辑，
00:42
because what does a brain
do for us anyway?
do for us anyway?
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大脑究竟能为我们做什么呢？
00:45
But imagine if there were a kind
of neglected organ in our bodies
of neglected organ in our bodies
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但是请想一下，
如果我们身体里有一个被忽略的器官，
如果我们身体里有一个被忽略的器官，
00:48
that weighed just as much as the brain
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和大脑有着同样的重量，
00:50
and in some ways was just
as important to who we are,
as important to who we are,
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而且和我们是谁息息相关，
00:53
but we knew so little about
and treated with such disregard.
and treated with such disregard.
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但是我们对它却不甚了解，
也并未重视过它。
也并未重视过它。
00:57
And imagine if,
through new scientific advances,
through new scientific advances,
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想象一下，通过新的科学进步，
01:00
we were just beginning to understand
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我们能够开始去理解它
01:01
its importance to how
we think of ourselves.
we think of ourselves.
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对于我们如何看待自己的重要性。
01:04
Wouldn't you want to know more about it?
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你难道不想多了解它一些么？
01:07
Well, it turns out that we do
have something just like that:
have something just like that:
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结果呢，我们真的有那样的东西，
01:10
our gut,
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我们的肠道，
01:12
or rather, its microbes.
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或是说肠道的微生物。
01:15
But it's not just the microbes
in our gut that are important.
in our gut that are important.
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但不只有我们肠道中的
微生物很重要，
微生物很重要，
01:18
Microbes all over our body
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遍布我们全身的微生物
01:19
turn out to be really critical
to a whole range of differences
to a whole range of differences
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对于区分我们和其他人
01:22
that make different people who we are.
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也有着非常深刻的意义。
01:25
So for example, have you ever noticed
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举个例子，你有没有发现有些人
01:27
how some people get bitten by mosquitos
way more often than others?
way more often than others?
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比一般人更招蚊子。
01:31
It turns out that everyone's anecdotal
experience out camping is actually true.
experience out camping is actually true.
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事实上，那些个人野营的
趣闻也证明了这一点。
趣闻也证明了这一点。
01:36
For example, I seldom
get bitten by mosquitos,
get bitten by mosquitos,
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举个例子，我很少会被蚊子咬，
01:38
but my partner Amanda
attracts them in droves,
attracts them in droves,
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但是我的爱人阿曼达很招蚊子，
01:41
and the reason why is that we have
different microbes on our skin
different microbes on our skin
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原因是我们的皮肤上
存在着不同的微生物，
存在着不同的微生物，
01:44
that produce different chemicals
that the mosquitos detect.
that the mosquitos detect.
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会产生不同的能够被蚊子
察觉的化学物质。
察觉的化学物质。
01:48
Now, microbes are also really important
in the field of medicine.
in the field of medicine.
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现在，微生物在医学界
也有非常重要的作用。
也有非常重要的作用。
01:51
So, for example, what microbes
you have in your gut
you have in your gut
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举个例子，你肠道里微生物的种类
01:54
determine whether particular painkillers
are toxic to your liver.
are toxic to your liver.
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决定了是否某种止痛剂
会对你的肝有毒害作用。
会对你的肝有毒害作用。
01:58
They also determine whether or not other
drugs will work for your heart condition.
drugs will work for your heart condition.
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它们同样还决定了其他药物
是否适合你的心脏。
是否适合你的心脏。
02:02
And, if you're a fruit fly, at least,
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另外，如果你是一只果蝇，
02:05
your microbes determine
who you want to have sex with.
who you want to have sex with.
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你的微生物还会决定
你愿意和谁发生性关系。
你愿意和谁发生性关系。
02:08
We haven't demonstrated this in humans yet
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我们还没有在人类身上证明这一点，
02:10
but maybe it's just a matter of time
before we find out. (Laughter)
before we find out. (Laughter)
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不过也许只是时间上的问题。（笑声）
02:15
So microbes are performing
a huge range of functions.
a huge range of functions.
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微生物有着非常多的功能。
02:17
They help us digest our food.
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它们帮助我们消化，
02:19
They help educate our immune system.
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调整免疫系统，
02:21
They help us resist disease,
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防御疾病，
它们甚至会影响我们的行为。
02:23
and they may even
be affecting our behavior.
be affecting our behavior.
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02:26
So what would a map of all these
microbial communities look like?
microbial communities look like?
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这些微生物菌落的分布图
会是什么样的呢？
会是什么样的呢？
02:30
Well, it wouldn't look exactly like this,
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也许分布不会和这个一模一样，
02:32
but it's a helpful guide
for understanding biodiversity.
for understanding biodiversity.
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但是对理解生物多样性很有帮助。
02:35
Different parts of the world
have different landscapes of organisms
have different landscapes of organisms
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世界不同的地方有不同的生物分布，
02:39
that are immediately characteristic
of one place or another
of one place or another
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非常直接的反映了
02:43
or another.
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不同地域的特征。
02:45
With microbiology, it's kind of the same,
although I've got to be honest with you:
although I've got to be honest with you:
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对于微生物也有类似的分布，
但是我得坦白的说：
但是我得坦白的说：
02:49
All the microbes essentially
look the same under a microscope.
look the same under a microscope.
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显微镜下，所有的微生物都长的一样。
02:52
So instead of trying
to identify them visually,
to identify them visually,
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所以我们不去直观地识别它们，
02:55
what we do is we look
at their DNA sequences,
at their DNA sequences,
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我们会观察它们的 DNA ，
02:57
and in a project called
the Human Microbiome Project,
the Human Microbiome Project,
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在一个叫做“人类微生物工程”的项目中，
03:00
NIH funded this $173 million project
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NIH 为这个项目投资了 1.73 亿美元，
03:04
where hundreds
of researchers came together
of researchers came together
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几百名研究者聚集起来
03:06
to map out all the A's, T's, G's, and C's,
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共同绘制出所有 了
A， T， G， C 这些碱基，
A， T， G， C 这些碱基，
以及人体内所有
这些微生物的分布图。
这些微生物的分布图。
03:09
and all of these microbes
in the human body.
in the human body.
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03:11
So when we take them together,
they look like this.
they look like this.
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所以当我们把它们放在一起的时候，
看起来是这个样子的。
看起来是这个样子的。
03:14
It's a bit more difficult
to tell who lives where now, isn't it?
to tell who lives where now, isn't it?
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有点难分辨出哪种微生物
分布在哪里对不对？
分布在哪里对不对？
03:18
What my lab does is develop
computational techniques that allow us
computational techniques that allow us
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我的实验室做的就是
开发计算机技术，
开发计算机技术，
03:22
to take all these terabytes
of sequence data
of sequence data
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让我们可以将这些
万亿字节的序列数据
万亿字节的序列数据
03:24
and turn them into something
that's a bit more useful as a map,
that's a bit more useful as a map,
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转化成更直观有效的分布图，
03:27
and so when we do that
with the human microbiome data
with the human microbiome data
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当我们从 250 个健康的志愿者那里
03:30
from 250 healthy volunteers,
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取来微生物数据的时候，
03:32
it looks like this.
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这个分布图看上去是这个样子。
03:35
Each point here represents
all the complex microbes
all the complex microbes
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每一个点都代表着
一整个微生物菌落中的
一整个微生物菌落中的
03:38
in an entire microbial community.
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所有复杂的微生物。
03:40
See, I told you they basically
all look the same.
all look the same.
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看，我之前说过它们看上去都一样。
03:43
So what we're looking at is each point
represents one microbial community
represents one microbial community
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这里每一个点都代表着
一个微生物菌落，
一个微生物菌落，
03:46
from one body site
of one healthy volunteer.
of one healthy volunteer.
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来自一个健康志愿者的
某个身体部位。
某个身体部位。
03:49
And so you can see that there's different
parts of the map in different colors,
parts of the map in different colors,
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所以你能看到图中不同的部分
有不同的颜色，
有不同的颜色，
03:53
almost like separate continents.
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就像分开的大陆一样。
03:54
And what it turns out to be
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研究结果显示
03:56
is that those, as the different
regions of the body,
regions of the body,
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不同的身体部位
03:58
have very different microbes in them.
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有着不同的微生物。
04:00
So what we have is we have
the oral community up there in green.
the oral community up there in green.
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我们用绿色标记了
左上角的口腔微生物菌落。
左上角的口腔微生物菌落。
04:04
Over on the other side,
we have the skin community in blue,
we have the skin community in blue,
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右上角蓝色的是
皮肤上的微生物菌落，
皮肤上的微生物菌落，
04:07
the vaginal community in purple,
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紫色的是阴道内的菌落，
04:09
and then right down at the bottom,
we have the fecal community in brown.
we have the fecal community in brown.
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然后在最低下，
棕色的是排泄物中的菌落。
棕色的是排泄物中的菌落。
在过去的几年里，
04:13
And we've just over the last few years
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04:15
found out that the microbes
in different parts of the body
in different parts of the body
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我们发现了不同身体部位之间的
微生物存在巨大差异。
04:18
are amazingly different from one another.
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04:20
So if I look at just one person's microbes
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如果我只看同一个人
04:23
in the mouth and in the gut,
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口腔中和肠道中的微生物，
04:25
it turns out that the difference between
those two microbial communities
those two microbial communities
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这两个部位微生物菌落
04:28
is enormous.
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也有着天壤之别。
04:30
It's bigger than the difference
between the microbes in this reef
between the microbes in this reef
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这个差别要比珊瑚礁中的微生物
04:33
and the microbes in this prairie.
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和牧场上的微生物的差别大得多。
04:36
So this is incredible
when you think about it.
when you think about it.
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所以仔细想一下，
你就会感到不可思议。
你就会感到不可思议。
04:38
What it means is that a few feet
of difference in the human body
of difference in the human body
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这就意味着，人们身体尺寸范围内的
04:42
makes more of a difference
to your microbial ecology
to your microbial ecology
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微生物生态的差别
要比地球上数百英里间的差别还大。
04:44
than hundreds of miles on Earth.
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04:46
And this is not to say that two people
look basically the same
look basically the same
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这也不是说在同一身体部位
04:49
in the same body habitat, either.
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两个人的菌落就看上去基本一样。
04:51
So you probably heard
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也许你已经听说
04:53
that we're pretty much all the same
in terms of our human DNA.
in terms of our human DNA.
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我们人类的 DNA 几乎完全相同。
04:56
You're 99.99 percent identical
in terms of your human DNA
in terms of your human DNA
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就 DNA 而言，你和你旁边坐着的人
05:00
to the person sitting next to you.
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有99%的相似度。
05:02
But that's not true of your gut microbes:
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但是对于你肠道中的微生物就不同了：
05:04
you might only share 10 percent similarity
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就肠胃中的微生物而言，
05:07
with the person sitting next to you
in terms of your gut microbes.
in terms of your gut microbes.
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你和你旁边的人
也许只有10%的相似度。
也许只有10%的相似度。
05:10
So that's as different
as the bacteria on this prairie
as the bacteria on this prairie
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所以这就像这个草原上的细菌
05:13
and the bacteria in this forest.
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和这个森林里的细菌的差异一样大。
05:16
So these different microbes
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那么就像我刚才说的，
05:17
have all these different kinds
of functions that I told you about,
of functions that I told you about,
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这些不同的微生物有着不同功能，
05:21
everything from digesting food
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从消化食物
05:22
to involvement
in different kinds of diseases,
in different kinds of diseases,
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到与各种疾病，
代谢药物相关联，等等。
05:25
metabolizing drugs, and so forth.
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05:27
So how do they do all this stuff?
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它们是怎么做到这些的呢？
05:29
Well, in part it's because
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一部分是因为
05:31
although there's just three pounds
of those microbes in our gut,
of those microbes in our gut,
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虽然我们肠道中的微生物
只有 3 磅重，
只有 3 磅重，
05:34
they really outnumber us.
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它们的数量却
远远超过了我们的生理数据。
远远超过了我们的生理数据。
05:36
And so how much do they outnumber us?
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它们到底比我们多多少呢？
05:38
Well, it depends on what
you think of as our bodies.
you think of as our bodies.
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这就取决于你们怎么比较了。
05:41
Is it our cells?
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是比我们身体的细胞数量多么？
05:43
Well, each of us consists
of about 10 trillion human cells,
of about 10 trillion human cells,
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我们每个人都有大概 10 万亿的细胞，
05:46
but we harbor as many
as 100 trillion microbial cells.
as 100 trillion microbial cells.
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但是我们身体中有
100 万亿的微生物细胞。
100 万亿的微生物细胞。
05:49
So they outnumber us 10 to one.
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所以呢，它们的数量是我们的十倍。
05:52
Now, you might think, well,
we're human because of our DNA,
we're human because of our DNA,
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你现在可能会想，
我们是人，这是由 DNA 决定的，
我们是人，这是由 DNA 决定的，
05:56
but it turns out that each of us has
about 20,000 human genes,
about 20,000 human genes,
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但是我们每个人都有 2万个人类基因，
05:59
depending on what you count exactly,
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取决于你怎么数，
06:01
but as many as two million
to 20 million microbial genes.
to 20 million microbial genes.
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但是和我们的基因相比，
微生物有 200-2000万的基因。
微生物有 200-2000万的基因。
06:06
So whichever way we look at it,
we're vastly outnumbered
we're vastly outnumbered
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所以不论怎么看，我们在数量上都
06:08
by our microbial symbionts.
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被微生物共生体远远超过了。
06:11
And it turns out that in addition
to traces of our human DNA,
to traces of our human DNA,
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结果还显示，
在我们留下人类 DNA 痕迹的时候，
在我们留下人类 DNA 痕迹的时候，
06:15
we also leave traces
of our microbial DNA
of our microbial DNA
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还在所有被我们触摸的东西上
06:17
on everything we touch.
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留下了我们微生物的 DNA。
06:19
We showed in a study a few years ago
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我们在几年前的一个研究中展示了，
06:20
that you can actually match
the palm of someone's hand up
the palm of someone's hand up
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你甚至可以将手掌上携带的物质信息
06:23
to the computer mouse
that they use routinely
that they use routinely
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与日常所用的鼠标上的相匹配，
准确率达到95%。
06:25
with up to 95 percent accuracy.
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06:28
So this came out in a scientific journal
a few years ago,
a few years ago,
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这项结果几年前发表在
一个科学杂志上，
一个科学杂志上，
06:31
but more importantly,
it was featured on "CSI: Miami,"
it was featured on "CSI: Miami,"
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但更重要的是，它在美剧
“犯罪现场调查：迈阿密”中播出了，
“犯罪现场调查：迈阿密”中播出了，
06:33
so you really know it's true.
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所以你们得相信确有其事。
06:35
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
06:36
So where do our microbes
come from in the first place?
come from in the first place?
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那么我们的微生物从哪来呢？
06:40
Well if, as I do, you have dogs or kids,
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如果像我一样，
你们有宠物狗或者孩子，
你们有宠物狗或者孩子，
你们可能有些不太乐观的怀疑
（微生物来自不干净的地方），
（微生物来自不干净的地方），
06:43
you probably have
some dark suspicions about that,
some dark suspicions about that,
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06:45
all of which are true, by the way.
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但这的确是事实。
06:47
So just like we can match
you to your computer equipment
you to your computer equipment
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就像我们能够通过微生物
06:50
by the microbes you share,
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将你和你的电脑设备匹配，
我们同样能将你和你的狗匹配。
06:51
we can also match you up to your dog.
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06:54
But it turns out that in adults,
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但是结果显示成人的
06:56
microbial communities
are relatively stable,
are relatively stable,
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微生物菌落是相对稳定的，
所以即使你和其他人一起生活，
06:58
so even if you live together with someone,
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07:00
you'll maintain your separate
microbial identity
microbial identity
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你在几周，几个月，甚至几年间
07:02
over a period of weeks,
months, even years.
months, even years.
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仍将保留你自己独特的微生物特性。
07:05
It turns out that our
first microbial communities
first microbial communities
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事实表明我们的第一个微生物菌落
07:08
depend a lot on how we're born.
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大多取决于我们是怎样出生的。
07:11
So babies that come out
the regular way,
the regular way,
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因此顺产出生的婴儿，
07:13
all of their microbes are basically
like the vaginal community,
like the vaginal community,
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它们体内的微生物基本跟
阴道的菌落是相像的，
阴道的菌落是相像的，
07:16
whereas babies that are
delivered by C-section,
delivered by C-section,
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然而剖腹产出生的婴儿，
07:18
all of their microbes instead
look like skin.
look like skin.
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他们体内的微生物看上去
更像皮肤中的。
更像皮肤中的。
07:21
And this might be associated
with some of the differences
with some of the differences
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这可能与剖腹产婴儿的
07:24
in health associated with Cesarean birth,
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不同的健康状况有一定关联，
07:27
such as more asthma, more allergies,
even more obesity,
even more obesity,
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例如这些婴儿更容易患上
哮喘，过敏，甚至肥胖，
哮喘，过敏，甚至肥胖，
07:30
all of which have been linked
to microbes now,
to microbes now,
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这些目前可能都与微生物有关，
07:33
and when you think about it,
until recently, every surviving mammal
until recently, every surviving mammal
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当你想到，所有存活的哺乳动物
07:37
had been delivered by the birth canal,
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都是通过产道出生，
07:39
and so the lack
of those protective microbes
of those protective microbes
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因此缺乏那些与我们共同进化的
07:41
that we've co-evolved with
might be really important
might be really important
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保护性的微生物，
这可能对我们目前已知的
这可能对我们目前已知的
07:44
for a lot of these different conditions
that we now know involve the microbiome.
that we now know involve the microbiome.
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与微生物有关的许多不同症状
来说非常重要。
来说非常重要。
07:48
When my own daughter was born
a couple of years ago
a couple of years ago
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当我的女儿在几年前通过紧急剖腹产
07:51
by emergency C-section,
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出生的时候，
07:53
we took matters into our own hands
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我们都做了相应的准备，
07:55
and made sure she was coated
with those vaginal microbes
with those vaginal microbes
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确保她被本应通过自然分娩而获得的
07:58
that she would have gotten naturally.
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阴道微生物所附着。
目前，当然还无法确定这是否
08:00
Now, it's really difficult to tell
whether this has had an effect
whether this has had an effect
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对她的健康有影响，对吧？
08:03
on her health specifically, right?
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08:05
With a sample size of just one child,
no matter how much we love her,
no matter how much we love her,
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样本只有一个孩子，不管我们多爱她，
08:09
you don't really have
enough of a sample size
enough of a sample size
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你都不能从单一样本
08:11
to figure out what happens on average,
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得出平均的结果，
08:13
but at two years old,
she hasn't had an ear infection yet,
she hasn't had an ear infection yet,
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但是两岁了，她还没得过耳部感染，
08:16
so we're keeping our fingers
crossed on that one.
crossed on that one.
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所以在这一点上我们很幸运。
08:18
And what's more, we're starting
to do clinical trials with more children
to do clinical trials with more children
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而且，我们开始用更多的孩子
做临床实验，
做临床实验，
08:22
to figure out whether
this has a protective effect generally.
this has a protective effect generally.
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看看是否微生物在整体上
起到了保护作用。
起到了保护作用。
08:27
So how we're born has a tremendous effect
on what microbes we have initially,
on what microbes we have initially,
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那么，我们的出生方式对体内
起初的微生物种类有着巨大影响，
起初的微生物种类有着巨大影响，
08:32
but where do we go after that?
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但是在那之后呢？
08:34
What I'm showing you
again here is this map
again here is this map
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我再给你们看一下这张
08:36
of the Human Microbiome Project Data,
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1998
人类微生物工程的数据图，
08:38
so each point represents
a sample from one body site
a sample from one body site
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每一个点代表人体某一部位的样本，
08:41
from one of 250 healthy adults.
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一共有250个健康成人的数据。
08:43
And you've seen children
develop physically.
develop physically.
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你已经看到过孩子们身体
08:45
You've seen them develop mentally.
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以及智力的成长。
08:47
Now, for the first time,
you're going to see
you're going to see
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2075
现在，你将第一次看到
08:50
one of my colleague's children
develop microbially.
develop microbially.
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我同事的孩子们在微生物方面的成长。
08:53
So what we are going to look at
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我们要看的是
08:54
is we're going to look
at this one baby's stool,
at this one baby's stool,
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一个婴儿的粪菌，
08:57
the fecal community,
which represents the gut,
which represents the gut,
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排泄物的微生物菌落代表着大肠的菌落，
09:00
sampled every week
for almost two and a half years.
for almost two and a half years.
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每周取样，持续了大约两年半。
09:03
And so we're starting on day one.
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我们从第一天开始，
09:04
What's going to happen is that the infant
is going to start off as this yellow dot,
is going to start off as this yellow dot,
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3918
婴儿从这个黄点开始，
09:08
and you can see that he's starting off
basically in the vaginal community,
basically in the vaginal community,
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3480
你们可以看到他基本就在
阴道生物菌落里，
阴道生物菌落里，
09:12
as we would expect from his delivery mode.
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2026
因此我们可以推测
他的出生方式（顺产）。
他的出生方式（顺产）。
09:14
And what's going to happen
over these two and a half years
over these two and a half years
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随后的两年半里
就是他沿着这条线一路下移，
09:17
is that he's going to travel
all the way down
all the way down
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向底端的健康成人志愿者的
粪便菌落靠近。
粪便菌落靠近。
09:19
to resemble the adult fecal community from
healthy volunteers down at the bottom.
healthy volunteers down at the bottom.
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3814
09:23
So I'm just going to start this going
and we'll see how that happens.
and we'll see how that happens.
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我们现在就来看看
这一过程是怎样发生的。
这一过程是怎样发生的。
09:26
What you can see, and remember
each step in this is just one week,
each step in this is just one week,
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你们看到的，
记住每一步只是一周，
记住每一步只是一周，
09:30
what you can see is that week to week,
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你们看到的，是每周的
09:32
the change in the microbial community
of the feces of this one child,
of the feces of this one child,
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4683
儿童粪便微生物菌落的变化，
09:37
the differences week to week
are much greater
are much greater
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2551
每周的差异都
09:40
than the differences between
individual healthy adults
individual healthy adults
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2531
远比人类微生物工程研究中的
健康成人个体之间的差异，也就是
09:42
in the Human Microbiome Project cohort,
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1950
09:44
which are those brown dots
down at the bottom.
down at the bottom.
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2476
底端的一些棕色的点，要大得多。
09:47
And you can see he's starting
to approach the adult fecal community.
to approach the adult fecal community.
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你们可以看到他
正在接近成人粪便菌落。
正在接近成人粪便菌落。
09:50
This is up to about two years.
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这大约要花上两年。
09:51
But something amazing
is about to happen here.
is about to happen here.
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但是有个意外的现象出现了。
09:53
So he's getting antibiotics
for an ear infection.
for an ear infection.
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他此刻正在注射
防止耳部感染的抗体。
防止耳部感染的抗体。
09:56
What you can see is
this huge change in the community,
this huge change in the community,
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你可以看到菌落的巨大变化，
09:59
followed by a relatively rapid recovery.
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然后又迅速恢复。
10:01
I'll just rewind that for you.
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我倒回去再给你们看一遍。
10:05
And what we can see is that
just over these few weeks,
just over these few weeks,
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3589
我们看到，几周之间，
10:08
we have a much more radical change,
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1933
有一个更明显的变化，
10:10
a setback of many months
of normal development,
of normal development,
219
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2530
退回到几个月之前的
正常发展阶段，
正常发展阶段，
10:13
followed by a relatively rapid recovery,
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2252
然后又迅速恢复，
10:15
and by the time he reaches day 838,
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当他在第838天的时候，
10:19
which is the end of this video,
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1719
也就是这段录像的结尾，
10:21
you can see that he has essentially
reached the healthy adult stool community,
reached the healthy adult stool community,
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3697
可以看到他已经到达了
健康成人菌落，
健康成人菌落，
尽管其间受到了抗体的干扰。
10:25
despite that antibiotic intervention.
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10:27
So this is really interesting
because it raises fundamental questions
because it raises fundamental questions
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3328
这个结果很有趣，
因为它提出了一些
因为它提出了一些
10:30
about what happens when we intervene
at different ages in a child's life.
at different ages in a child's life.
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4099
关于儿童时期注射疫苗的问题。
10:35
So does what we do early on, where
the microbiome is changing so rapidly,
the microbiome is changing so rapidly,
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3611
我们进行的早期干预，
对微生物菌落的变化
对微生物菌落的变化
10:38
actually matter,
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1300
确实有影响，
10:39
or is it like throwing a stone
into a stormy sea,
into a stormy sea,
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2483
这是不是就像在波涛汹涌的
海面扔进一块石头，
海面扔进一块石头，
10:42
where the ripples will just be lost?
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1742
波纹迅速就会消失了？
10:45
Well, fascinatingly, it turns out
that if you give children antibiotics
that if you give children antibiotics
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4291
有趣的是，当你在婴儿出生后的
10:49
in the first six months of life,
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前6个月注射抗体，
10:50
they're more likely
to become obese later on
to become obese later on
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他们之后患肥胖症的可能性
10:53
than if they don't get antibiotics then
or only get them later,
or only get them later,
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3127
比不注射或者推迟注射抗体要更大，
10:56
and so what we do early on
may have profound impacts
may have profound impacts
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2946
因此我们在早期的干预会对
10:59
on the gut microbial community
and on later health
and on later health
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3497
肠道微生物菌落及之后的健康状态
产生深远影响，
产生深远影响，
11:03
that we're only beginning to understand.
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2326
后者我们才刚刚开始了解。
11:05
So this is fascinating, because one day,
in addition to the effects
in addition to the effects
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4156
这很有趣，因为总有一天，
抗生素除了
抗生素除了
11:09
that antibiotics have
on antibiotic-resistant bacteria,
on antibiotic-resistant bacteria,
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2646
在耐抗生素细菌上产生
11:12
which are very important,
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1696
重要影响之外，
它们还可能使我们的肠道
微生物生态系统发生退化，
微生物生态系统发生退化，
11:14
they may also be degrading
our gut microbial ecosystems,
our gut microbial ecosystems,
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2903
11:17
and so one day we may come
to regard antibiotics with the same horror
to regard antibiotics with the same horror
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3272
因此，总有一天我们将以
恐惧的视角看待抗生素，
恐惧的视角看待抗生素，
11:20
that we currently reserve
for those metal tools
for those metal tools
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2463
如同看待那些埃及人用来
11:22
that the Egyptians used to use
to mush up the brains
to mush up the brains
244
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2459
搅碎大脑，并将其清除来制作
11:25
before they drained them out
for embalming.
for embalming.
245
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2064
木乃伊的金属器具一样。
11:27
So I mentioned that microbes
have all these important functions,
have all these important functions,
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3021
我提到了微生物的
所有这些重要功能，
所有这些重要功能，
以及近年来，它们与
11:30
and they've also now,
just over the past few years,
just over the past few years,
247
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2649
11:32
been connected to a whole range
of different diseases,
of different diseases,
248
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2833
若干不同疾病的相关性，
11:35
including inflammatory bowel disease,
249
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2085
包括炎症性肠病，
11:37
heart disease, colon cancer,
250
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1724
心脏病，结肠癌，
11:39
and even obesity.
251
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1830
甚至肥胖。
事实证明了肥胖对健康影响很大，
11:41
Obesity has a really
large effect, as it turns out,
large effect, as it turns out,
252
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2646
11:44
and today, we can tell
whether you're lean or obese
whether you're lean or obese
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2393
如今我们仅仅通过
肠道的微生物菌落，
肠道的微生物菌落，
11:46
with 90 percent accuracy
254
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1879
就可以辨别你是瘦还是胖，
11:48
by looking at the microbes in your gut.
255
696385
2112
准确率达到了90%。
11:50
Now, although that might sound impressive,
256
698497
2289
虽然这听上去相当不错，
11:52
in some ways it's a little bit problematic
as a medical test,
as a medical test,
257
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3331
但是在某些方面把它作为
医学测验手段仍然存在问题，
医学测验手段仍然存在问题，
11:56
because you can probably tell
which of these people is obese
which of these people is obese
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2997
因为我们也可以
直接区分哪些人肥胖，
直接区分哪些人肥胖，
11:59
without knowing anything
about their gut microbes,
about their gut microbes,
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2752
甚至不需要知道他们
肠道微生物的情况，
肠道微生物的情况，
12:01
but it turns out that even
if we sequence their complete genomes
if we sequence their complete genomes
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3043
但是即使我们得到
他们完整的基因序列，
他们完整的基因序列，
12:04
and had all their human DNA,
261
712909
1657
他们的全部人类DNA,
12:06
we could only predict which one
was obese with about 60 percent accuracy.
was obese with about 60 percent accuracy.
262
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4366
我们在预测哪个人有肥胖症的问题上
也只能达到60%的准确率。
也只能达到60%的准确率。
12:10
So that's amazing, right?
263
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1374
这很让人意外对不对？
12:12
What it means that the three pounds
of microbes that you carry around with you
of microbes that you carry around with you
264
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3812
这意味着你所附带的三磅的微生物
可能比基因组的每一个基因，
12:16
may be more important
for some health conditions
for some health conditions
265
724118
2342
12:18
than every single gene in your genome.
266
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3665
对于健康状态来说更重要。
12:23
And then in mice, we can do a lot more.
267
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2237
用老鼠，我们可以做更多的实验。
12:25
So in mice, microbes have been linked
to all kinds of additional conditions,
to all kinds of additional conditions,
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733792
3645
对于老鼠，微生物可能
跟更多的生理状况产生联系，
跟更多的生理状况产生联系，
12:29
including things like multiple sclerosis,
269
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2716
包括多发性硬化，
12:32
depression, autism, and again, obesity.
270
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3738
抑郁症，孤独症，还有肥胖症。
12:35
But how can we tell whether
these microbial differences
these microbial differences
271
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2764
但是我们怎么区别微生物上的差异
12:38
that correlate with disease
are cause or effect?
are cause or effect?
272
746655
2763
是与患病的原因还是结果相关呢？
12:41
Well, one thing we can do
is we can raise some mice
is we can raise some mice
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2647
我们能做的就是多养一些老鼠，
12:44
without any microbes of their own
in a germ-free bubble.
in a germ-free bubble.
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将它们在无菌膜里，
且自身不带微生物的条件下养大。
且自身不带微生物的条件下养大。
12:46
Then we can add in some microbes
that we think are important,
that we think are important,
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然后加入一些
我们认为比较重要的微生物，
我们认为比较重要的微生物，
12:49
and see what happens.
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看看会发生什么。
12:51
When we take the microbes
from an obese mouse
from an obese mouse
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当我们从肥胖的老鼠身上
提取一些微生物
提取一些微生物
12:54
and transplant them
into a genetically normal mouse
into a genetically normal mouse
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并移植到基因正常的老鼠身上，
12:56
that's been raised in a bubble
with no microbes of its own,
with no microbes of its own,
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那只老鼠自身不带微生物，
是在无菌膜下培养的，
是在无菌膜下培养的，
12:59
it becomes fatter than if it got them
from a regular mouse.
from a regular mouse.
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这只老鼠与从正常老鼠身上
获得微生物相比变胖了。
获得微生物相比变胖了。
13:04
Why this happens
is absolutely amazing, though.
is absolutely amazing, though.
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这项结果绝对让人惊讶。
13:06
Sometimes what's going on
is that the microbes
is that the microbes
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这是因为，有时候微生物
13:08
are helping them digest food
more efficiently from the same diet,
more efficiently from the same diet,
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帮助它们更有效的消化同样的食物，
13:11
so they're taking more energy
from their food,
from their food,
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因此它们从食物中汲取了更多的能量，
13:13
but other times, the microbes
are actually affecting their behavior.
are actually affecting their behavior.
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但是其他时候，
微生物会影响寄主的行为。
微生物会影响寄主的行为。
13:17
What they're doing is they're eating
more than the normal mouse,
more than the normal mouse,
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这些老鼠比正常老鼠吃得更多，
13:20
so they only get fat if we let them
eat as much as they want.
eat as much as they want.
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因此如果让它们尽情地吃，
它们只会更胖。
它们只会更胖。
13:24
So this is really remarkable, right?
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这个结果的确值得注意，对吧？
13:27
The implication is that microbes
can affect mammalian behavior.
can affect mammalian behavior.
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这预示着微生物可以
影响哺乳动物的行为。
影响哺乳动物的行为。
13:33
So you might be wondering whether we can
also do this sort of thing across species,
also do this sort of thing across species,
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你也许会想知道这种影响
是否会跨物种，
是否会跨物种，
13:37
and it turns out that if you take microbes
from an obese person
from an obese person
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结果表明，如果你从肥胖的
人身上提取微生物，
人身上提取微生物，
13:40
and transplant them into mice
you've raised germ-free,
you've raised germ-free,
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移植到无菌老鼠身上，
13:43
those mice will also become fatter
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这些老鼠与从瘦的人
13:45
than if they received the microbes
from a lean person,
from a lean person,
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身上获得微生物相比会变得更胖，
13:48
but we can design a microbial community
that we inoculate them with
that we inoculate them with
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但是我们可以设计一种微生物菌落，
13:52
that prevents them
from gaining this weight.
from gaining this weight.
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把它们接种到防止增肥的微生物上。
13:55
We can also do this for malnutrition.
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对于营养不良，
我们也可以做类似的实验。
我们也可以做类似的实验。
13:57
So in a project funded
by the Gates Foundation,
by the Gates Foundation,
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在由盖茨夫妇基金会
资助的一个项目中，
资助的一个项目中，
14:00
what we're looking at
is children in Malawi
is children in Malawi
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我们关注了马拉维的儿童，
14:02
who have kwashiorkor,
a profound form of malnutrition,
a profound form of malnutrition,
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他们患有一种叫做夸休可尔症的
深层次的营养不良，
深层次的营养不良，
14:05
and mice that get the kwashiorkor
community transplanted into them
community transplanted into them
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将夸休可尔症的菌落移植到老鼠身上，
14:08
lose 30 percent of their body mass
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它们在仅仅三周之内，体重就
14:11
in just three weeks,
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减少了30%，
14:12
but we can restore their health by using
the same peanut butter-based supplement
the same peanut butter-based supplement
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不过我们可以通过补充用来
进行儿童临床治疗的
进行儿童临床治疗的
14:16
that is used for
the children in the clinic,
the children in the clinic,
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花生黄油类补品来恢复它们的健康，
14:18
and the mice that receive the community
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而老鼠接受来自于
夸休可尔症患者的健康双胞胎的
微生物菌落，就一切表现正常。
微生物菌落，就一切表现正常。
14:19
from the healthy identical twins
of the kwashiorkor children do fine.
of the kwashiorkor children do fine.
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14:24
This is truly amazing because it suggests
that we can pilot therapies
that we can pilot therapies
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这太好了，
它预示着我们可以进行试点治疗，
它预示着我们可以进行试点治疗，
14:27
by trying them out
in a whole bunch of different mice
in a whole bunch of different mice
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用成人个体肠道内的微生物菌落
14:30
with individual people's gut communities
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在一大群不同的老鼠间进行实验，
14:32
and perhaps tailor those therapies
all the way down to the individual level.
all the way down to the individual level.
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或许还能把治疗方法
依据个人情况进行调整。
依据个人情况进行调整。
14:38
So I think it's really important
that everyone has a chance
that everyone has a chance
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因此我认为每个人都有机会
参与这项发现
参与这项发现
14:41
to participate in this discovery.
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2706
是非常重要的。
14:43
So, a couple of years ago,
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几年前，
14:45
we started this project
called American Gut,
called American Gut,
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我们启动了这个叫做
“美国人肠道”的项目，
“美国人肠道”的项目，
14:47
which allows you to claim a place
for yourself on this microbial map.
for yourself on this microbial map.
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可以把你添加到微生物分布图上。
14:51
This is now the largest crowd-funded
science project that we know of --
science project that we know of --
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879406
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这是目前我所知道的拥有
最多人力资助的科学项目，
最多人力资助的科学项目，
14:54
over 8,000 people
have signed up at this point.
have signed up at this point.
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目前有超过8000人已经注册。
14:57
What happens is,
they send in their samples,
they send in their samples,
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他们要做的就是送来他们的样品，
15:00
we sequence the DNA of their microbes
and then release the results back to them.
and then release the results back to them.
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我们得到他们的微生物DNA序列，
并把结果反馈给他们。
并把结果反馈给他们。
15:04
We also release them, de-identified,
to scientists, to educators,
to scientists, to educators,
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我们也在消除个人信息之后把
这些结果公布给科学家，教育工作者，
这些结果公布给科学家，教育工作者，
15:07
to interested members
of the general public, and so forth,
of the general public, and so forth,
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感兴趣的公众，等等，
15:10
so anyone can have access to the data.
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所以任何人都能得到这个数据。
15:13
On the other hand,
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另一方面，
15:15
when we do tours of our lab
at the BioFrontiers Institute,
at the BioFrontiers Institute,
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当我们在介绍位于BioFrontiers研究所的
实验室的时候，
实验室的时候，
15:18
and we explain that we use robots
and lasers to look at poop,
and lasers to look at poop,
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3560
我们说明了我们在用机器人
和激光研究粪便，
和激光研究粪便，
15:21
it turns out that not
everyone wants to know.
everyone wants to know.
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3112
不过看起来并不是每个人都想去了解。
15:25
(Laughter)
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1282
（笑声）
15:26
But I'm guessing that many of you do,
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1921
但我猜你们许多人都感到好奇，
15:28
and so I brought some kits here
if you're interested
if you're interested
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2659
所以我带来了一些测试包，
如果你们感兴趣
如果你们感兴趣
15:30
in trying this out for yourself.
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可以自己来尝试一下。
15:35
So why might we want to do this?
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923046
1947
我们为什么要做这个研究？
15:36
Well, it turns out that microbes
are not just important
are not just important
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2570
实验表明微生物不仅对
15:39
for finding out where we are
in terms of our health,
in terms of our health,
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我们的健康状态很重要，
15:42
but they can actually cure disease.
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而且可以帮助治疗疾病。
15:44
This is one of the newest things
we've been able to visualize
we've been able to visualize
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2925
这是我们已经
可以直观化的最新结果之一，
可以直观化的最新结果之一，
15:47
with colleagues
at the University of Minnesota.
at the University of Minnesota.
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935797
2739
合作者是明尼苏达大学的同事。
15:50
So here's that map
of the human microbiome again.
of the human microbiome again.
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2617
再看一次那张人类微生物分布图。
15:53
What we're looking at now --
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我们现在来看一看——
15:54
I'm going to add in the community
of some people with C. diff.
of some people with C. diff.
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3370
我要在这片区域里加入一些
得 C. diff.的人群。
得 C. diff.的人群。
15:57
So, this is a terrible form of diarrhea
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945980
2279
这是一种很恐怖的腹泻，
16:00
where you have to go
up to 20 times a day,
up to 20 times a day,
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2345
患者每天要去将近20趟厕所，
16:02
and these people have failed
antibiotic therapy for two years
antibiotic therapy for two years
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950604
3111
而且这些人长达2年的抗体治疗
并未见效，
并未见效，
16:05
before they're eligible for this trial.
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953715
2299
他们符合参与这项试验的要求。
16:08
So what would happen if we transplanted
some of the stool from a healthy donor,
some of the stool from a healthy donor,
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956014
4413
如果我们从健康的捐献者
体内移植一些粪菌，
体内移植一些粪菌，
16:12
that star down at the bottom,
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就是这个底部的星形物，
16:14
into these patients.
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1416
到这些病人身上。
16:15
Would the good microbes
do battle with the bad microbes
do battle with the bad microbes
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2609
这些好的微生物会不会
与坏的微生物竞争，
与坏的微生物竞争，
16:18
and help to restore their health?
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2079
从而帮助患者恢复健康呢？
16:20
So let's watch exactly what happens there.
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2316
我们看看到底发生了什么。
16:22
Four of those patients
are about to get a transplant
are about to get a transplant
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四位患者将得到来自底部
16:25
from that healthy donor at the bottom,
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1904
健康捐献者身体内的微生物，
16:27
and what you can see is that immediately,
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975124
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你们能看到，
16:29
you have this radical change
in the gut community.
in the gut community.
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2405
肠道菌落迅速的发生了变化。
16:31
So one day after you do that transplant,
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移植一天之后，
16:33
all those symptoms clear up,
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1649
所有症状消失了，
16:35
the diarrhea vanishes,
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983204
1555
腹泻也消失了，
16:36
and they're essentially healthy again,
coming to resemble the donor's community,
coming to resemble the donor's community,
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984759
3772
他们的确又恢复了健康，
与捐献者的菌落相似，
与捐献者的菌落相似，
16:40
and they stay there.
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2062
并且保持不变。
16:42
(Applause)
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4797
（掌声）
16:49
So we're just at the beginning
of this discovery.
of this discovery.
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997290
2375
这项探索才刚刚开始。
16:51
We're just finding out that microbes
have implications
have implications
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2540
我们仅仅发现微生物能够指向
16:54
for all these different kinds of diseases,
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不同的疾病，
16:56
ranging from inflammatory
bowel disease to obesity,
bowel disease to obesity,
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2468
从炎症性肠病到肥胖，
16:58
and perhaps even autism and depression.
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3083
甚至自闭和抑郁症。
17:01
What we need to do, though,
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然而我们需要做的，
17:03
is we need to develop
a kind of microbial GPS,
a kind of microbial GPS,
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就是开发一个微生物全球定位系统，
17:05
where we don't just know
where we are currently
where we are currently
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我们不仅要知道目前的进展，
17:07
but also where we want to go
and what we need to do
and what we need to do
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还要知道应该朝什么方向努力，
17:11
in order to get there,
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要如何实现我们的目标，
17:12
and we need to be able
to make this simple enough
to make this simple enough
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2345
我们还要让这个过程足够简单，
17:15
that even a child can use it.
(Laughter)
(Laughter)
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甚至连小朋友也可以操作。
（笑声）
（笑声）
17:17
Thank you.
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谢谢。
17:20
(Applause)
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(掌声)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Rob Knight - Microbial ecologistRob Knight explores the unseen microbial world that exists literally right under our noses -- and everywhere else on (and in) our bodies.
Why you should listen
Using scatological research methods that might repel the squeamish, microbial researcher Rob Knight uncovers the secret ecosystem (or "microbiome") of microbes that inhabit our bodies -- and the bodies of every creature on earth. In the process, he’s discovered a complex internal ecology that affects everything from weight loss to our susceptibility to disease. As he said to Nature in 2012, "What motivates me, from a pragmatic standpoint, is how understanding the microbial world might help us improve human and environmental health.”
Knight’s recent projects include the American Gut, an attempt to map the unique microbiome of the United States using open-access data mining tools and citizen-scientists to discover how lifestyle and diet affect our internal flora and fauna, and our overall health.
Knight is the author of the TED Book, Follow Your Gut: The Enormous Impact of Tiny Microbes.
Rob Knight | Speaker | TED.com