ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Gretchen Carlson - TV journalist, women's empowerment advocate
Gretchen Carlson is a tireless advocate for workplace equality and women's empowerment.

Why you should listen

Named one of TIME's 100 Most Influential People in the World for 2017, Gretchen Carlson is one of the nation's most highly acclaimed journalists and a warrior for women. In 2016, Carlson became the face of sexual harassment in the workplace after her lawsuit against Fox News Chairman and CEO Roger Ailes paved the way for thousands of other women facing harassment to tell their stories. Carlson's advocacy put her on the cover of TIME, and her new book, Be Fierce: Stop Harassment and Take Your Power Back, joined the New York Times best-seller list the week it was published. She became a columnist for TIME's online "Motto" newsletter in 2017, focusing on gender and empowerment issues.

Carlson's ongoing work on behalf of women includes advocating for arbitration reform on Capitol Hill; in 2018, she plans to testify before Congress about workplace inequality and forced arbitration clauses in employment contracts. Carlson also created the Gift of Courage Fund and the Gretchen Carlson Leadership Initiative to support empowerment, advocacy and anti-harassment programs for girls and underserved women.

Carlson hosted "The Real Story" on Fox News for three years; co-hosted "Fox and Friends" for seven years; and in her first book, Getting Real, became a national best-seller. She co-hosted "The Saturday Early Show" for CBS in 2000 and served as a CBS News correspondent covering stories including Geneoa's G-8 Summit, Timothy McVeigh’s execution, 9/11 from the World Trade Center and the Bush-Gore election. She started her reporting career in Richmond, Virginia, then served as an anchor and reporter in Cincinnati, Cleveland and Dallas, where she produced and reported a 30-part series on domestic violence that won several national awards.

An honors graduate of Stanford University, Carlson was valedictorian of her high school class and studied at Oxford University in England. A child prodigy on the violin, she performed as a soloist with the Minnesota Symphony Orchestra at age 13, and in 1989, became the first classical violinist to win the Miss America crown.

Ever grateful for the opportunities provided to her and imbued with a "never give up" attitude, Carlson has mentored dozens of young women throughout her career. She serves as a national trustee for the March of Dimes, a member of the board of directors for the Catherine Violet Hubbard Animal Sanctuary in Newtown, Connecticut and a trustee of Greenwich Academy, an all-girls preparatory day school in Greenwich, Connecticut. Carlson is married to sports agent Casey Close and mom to their two children.

More profile about the speaker
Gretchen Carlson | Speaker | TED.com
Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir - Gospel ensemble
Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir of Harlem is an influential source of education and self-development for young people.

Why you should listen

Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir of Harlem is a celebrated group of performers elevated from the Mama Foundation for the Arts' Music School of Gospel, Jazz and R&B. The Foundation, founded by the writer/producer of Mama, I Want to Sing!, is a highly respected and influential source of education and self-development for young people. The award-winning, nationally recognized program offers performance choirs small, medium, and large and has been seen accompanying many of today's pop icons including Ariana Grande, Chance the Rapper, Pharrell Williams, Alessia Cara and Madonna.

In addition to various performances and collaborations throughout New York City, the choir enjoys weekly performances in Harlem. They can be seen every Sunday headlining Ginny Supper Club's Gospel Brunch at Marcus Samuelson's acclaimed restaurant, Red Rooster, which is ranked one of the top five gospel brunches in the nation. The choir will begin Saturday performances in The Harlem Gospel Concert Series beginning April 15th at The Dempsey Theater in Harlem.

More profile about the speaker
Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir | Speaker | TED.com
David Brooks - Op-ed columnist
Writer and thinker David Brooks has covered business, crime and politics over a long career in journalism.

Why you should listen

David Brooks became an Op-Ed columnist for The New York Times in September 2003. He is currently a commentator on "The PBS Newshour," NPR’s "All Things Considered" and NBC's "Meet the Press."

He is the author of Bobos in Paradise and The Social Animal. In April 2015, he released with his fourth book, The Road to Character, which was a #1 New York Times bestseller.

Brooks also teaches at Yale University, and is a member of the American Academy of Arts & Sciences.

Born on August 11, 1961 in Toronto, Canada, Brooks graduated a bachelor of history from the University of Chicago in 1983. He became a police reporter for the City News Bureau, a wire service owned jointly by the Chicago Tribune and Sun-Times.

He worked at The Washington Times and then The Wall Street Journal for nine years. His last post at the Journal was as Op-ed Editor. Prior to that, he was posted in Brussels, covering Russia, the Middle East, South Africa and European affairs. His first post at the Journal was as editor of the book review section, and he filled in as the Journal's movie critic.

He also served as a senior editor at The Weekly Standard for 9 years, as well as contributing editor for The Atlantic and Newsweek.

More profile about the speaker
David Brooks | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.

Why you should listen

Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.

Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.

Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.

Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.

This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.

He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.

In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.

Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.

More profile about the speaker
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com
TED Dialogues

Gretchen Carlson, David Brooks: Political common ground in a polarized United States

格雷琴·卡尔森,大卫·布鲁克斯: 两极分化美国的政治共识

Filmed:
1,044,128 views

面对左右两派分歧,如何通过更睿智、更有效的政治对话来弥合鸿沟? 记者格雷琴·卡尔森和专栏作家大卫·布鲁克斯各自分享了对当下美国政治核心紧张局势的见解—如何着手找到共识。 节目最后献上的是维恩·喜金丝率领的哈林福音合唱团演唱的“美哉,美国”。
- TV journalist, women's empowerment advocate
Gretchen Carlson is a tireless advocate for workplace equality and women's empowerment. Full bio - Gospel ensemble
Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir of Harlem is an influential source of education and self-development for young people. Full bio - Op-ed columnist
Writer and thinker David Brooks has covered business, crime and politics over a long career in journalism. Full bio - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
Chris克里斯 Anderson安德森: Welcome欢迎
to this next下一个 edition of TEDTED Dialogues对话.
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克里斯 安德森:
欢迎收看新一期的TED对话
在今天节目中
我们打算对接沟通
00:17
We're trying to do
some bridging桥接 here today今天.
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大家都知道美国梦
激励着数百万人
00:20
You know, the American美国 dream梦想
has inspired启发 millions百万 of people
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遍布全球,影响久远
00:23
around the world世界 for many许多 years年份.
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00:26
Today今天, I think, you can say
that America美国 is divided分为,
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现在,我想你们可以说
美国是分裂的
可能比以往任何时候还严重
00:32
perhaps也许 more than ever,
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00:34
and the divisions seem似乎
to be getting得到 worse更差.
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而且分歧似乎
变得越来越严重
事实上,对于站在
各方面的人来说
00:36
It's actually其实 really hard
for people on different不同 sides双方
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00:40
to even have a conversation会话.
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即使是开展对话都是很困难的
00:41
People almost几乎 feel...
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大家几乎是感觉……
你见不得我,我见不得你
00:44
disgusted厌恶的 with each other.
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现在在有些人家里
彼此之间甚至都不讲话
00:46
Some families家庭 can't even speak说话
to each other right now.
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00:51
Our purpose目的 in this dialogue对话 today今天
is to try to do something about that,
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我们今天对话的目的
就是希望能做些事
尝试开展一个
不同的对话
00:56
to try to have a different不同 kind
of conversation会话,
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00:58
to do some listening, some thinking思维,
some understanding理解.
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做一些倾听,一些思考
一些理解
01:03
And I have two people with us
to help us do that.
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今天会有两个人
同我一起做节目
01:06
They're not going to come at this
hammer锤子 and tong against反对 each other.
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他们不准备打嘴仗
这里可不像有线新闻
01:09
This is not like cable电缆 news新闻.
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01:11
This is two people who have both spent花费
a lot of their working加工 life
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这两位专家都花费了很多
他们的职业生涯
在政治中心
或权力中心上
01:17
in the political政治 center中央
or right of the center中央.
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01:19
They've他们已经 immersed沉浸 themselves他们自己
in conservative保守 worldviews世界观, if you like.
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他们沉浸在
保守派的世界观里
01:23
They know that space空间 very well.
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对这方面他们可是行家里手
01:25
And we're going to explore探索 together一起
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下面我们将一起探索
怎样理解当下
所发生的事情
01:27
how to think about
what is happening事件 right now,
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01:30
and whether是否 we can find new ways方法 to bridge
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以及是否我们可以
找到新的办法去建立联系
01:33
and just to have wiser聪明,
more connected连接的 conversations对话.
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开展更睿智
更有连接性的谈话
01:36
With me, first of all, Gretchen格雷琴 Carlson卡尔森,
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首先有请格雷琴·卡尔森
她在福克斯新闻
工作了十多年
01:39
who has spent花费 a decade
working加工 at Fox狐狸 News新闻,
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主持“福克斯和她的朋友”
然后“实话实说”
01:45
hosting托管 "Fox狐狸 and Friends"
and then "The Real真实 Story故事,"
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后来,她大胆地提出
性骚扰声称
01:49
before taking服用 a courageous勇敢 stance姿态
in filing备案 sexual有性 harassment骚扰 claims索赔
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01:55
against反对 Roger罗杰 Ailes艾尔斯,
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指控罗杰·艾尔斯
最终导致罗杰离开福克斯
01:56
which哪一个 eventually终于 led
to his departure离开 from Fox狐狸 News新闻.
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大卫·布鲁克斯,他引起了
02:00
David大卫 Brooks布鲁克斯, who has earned the wrath愤怒
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02:03
of many许多 of [The New York纽约 Times's时代的]
left-leaning左倾 readers读者
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很多【纽约时报】的
左派读者的激怒
因为他的保守观点
02:06
because of his conservative保守 views意见,
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最近有些右派的
读者也掺和进来
02:09
and more recently最近, perhaps也许,
some of the right-leaning偏右翼 readers读者
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这是因为他对
特朗普的批评
02:12
because of his criticism批评
of some aspects方面 of Trump王牌.
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然而,他的专栏经常是
02:16
Yet然而, his columns are usually平时
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02:18
the top最佳 one, two or three
most-read最阅读 content内容 of the day
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每日最多阅读榜
的前三名之一
因为它们的很精彩的
02:23
because they're brilliant辉煌,
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因为它带来了心理学
社会科学的分析
02:24
because they bring带来 psychology心理学
and social社会 science科学
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02:26
to providing提供 understanding理解
for what's going on.
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去让人们知道
正在发生什么
所以,闲话少说,热烈欢迎
格雷琴和大卫
02:30
So without further进一步 ado忙乱, a huge巨大 welcome欢迎
to Gretchen格雷琴 and David大卫.
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02:33
Come and join加入 me.
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请坐
02:34
(Applause掌声)
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(观众掌声)
02:38
So, Gretchen格雷琴.
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那么,格雷琴
6300万的美国人把票
投给了唐纳德·特朗普
02:41
Sixty-three六十三 million百万 Americans美国人
voted for Donald唐纳德 Trump王牌.
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02:46
Why did they do this?
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他们为什么会这么做?
格雷琴·卡尔森:我觉得
导这种局面是有很多原因的
02:48
Gretchen格雷琴 Carlson卡尔森: There are a lot
of reasons原因, in my mind心神, why it happened发生.
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我的意思是:这是一个运动
但是是在很多年前就发起的
02:51
I mean, I think it was a movement运动
of sorts排序, but it started开始 long ago.
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02:55
It didn't just happen发生 overnight过夜.
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这不是一夜之间就发生的
02:56
"Anger愤怒" would be the first word
that I would think of --
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我想到的第一个词是“愤怒”
对华盛顿的无所作为
表示愤怒
02:59
anger愤怒 with nothing
being存在 doneDONE in Washington华盛顿,
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对自己的声音被无视
表示愤怒
03:04
anger愤怒 about not being存在 heard听说.
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03:07
I think there was a huge巨大 swath大片
of the population人口
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我觉得有很一大批人
感觉到华盛顿
从来不听他们的声音
03:10
that feels感觉 like Washington华盛顿
never listens监听 to them,
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03:13
you know, a good part部分 of the middle中间
of America美国, not just the coasts海岸,
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你知道,有很大一部分是
美国中部的,不仅仅是沿海的
03:17
and he was somebody they felt
was listening to their concerns关注.
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特朗普让这些人觉得
他有在倾听他们的诉求
03:22
So I think those two issues问题
would be the main主要 reason原因.
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所以我认为这两个是主要原因
当然还得考虑他是名人
03:26
I have to throw in there also celebrity名人.
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03:29
I think that had a huge巨大 impact碰撞
on Donald唐纳德 Trump王牌 becoming变得 president主席.
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我认为这对唐纳德·特朗普
成为总统影响很大
03:35
CACA: Was the anger愤怒 justified有理?
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CA:“愤怒”是正当合理的?
03:38
David大卫 Brooks布鲁克斯: Yeah, I think so.
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大卫·布鲁克斯:对,我认为是
在2015和2016年初年初
我写了大约30篇专栏文章
03:39
In 2015 and early 2016,
I wrote about 30 columns
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03:43
with the following以下 theme主题:
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是关于以下主题的:
03:45
don't worry担心, Donald唐纳德 Trump王牌 will never
be the Republican共和党人 nominee被提名人.
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不用担心,唐纳德·特朗普
是绝对不会被共和党提名的
(笑声)
03:48
(Laughter笑声)
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结果错得一塌糊涂
03:49
And having doneDONE that
and gotten得到 that so wrong错误,
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我决定后来的一整年
都去专注特朗普世界
03:51
I decided决定 to spend the ensuing随后 year
just out in TrumpworldTrumpworld,
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03:54
and I found发现 a lot of economic经济 dislocation错位.
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我发现了很多经济失调
03:57
I ran into a woman女人 in West西 Virginia弗吉尼亚州
who was going to a funeral葬礼 for her mom妈妈.
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我在西弗吉尼亚州遇到一位女士
当时,她要去参加母亲的葬礼
她说:“作为天主教徒的好处
是我们不用讲话
04:01
She said, "The nice不错 thing about
being存在 Catholic天主教徒 is we don't have to speak说话,
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那是很好的
因为我们不是写手。”
04:04
and that's good,
because we're not word people."
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04:07
That phrase短语 rung梯级 in my head: word people.
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那句话一直在我脑海里回响:写手
在我们的TED社区里
有很多是写手
04:09
A lot of us in the TEDTED community社区
are word people,
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04:11
but if you're not, the economy经济
has not been angled斜角 toward you,
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但如果你不是,经济
将和你无缘
04:14
and so 11 million百万 men男人, for example,
are out of the labor劳动 force
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举个例子
1100万的人失去了工作
04:18
because those jobs工作 are doneDONE away.
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这些工作已经不存在了
造成了很多社会创伤
04:20
A lot of social社会 injury.
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04:21
You used to be able能够 to say,
"I'm not the richest首富 person in the world世界,
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以前你可能会说,
“虽然我不是世界上最有钱的
也不是最有名的
04:25
I'm not the most famous著名,
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但我的邻居可以信任我
我觉得可以有些自尊。”
04:26
but my neighbors邻居 can count计数 on me
and I get some dignity尊严 out of that."
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现在因为名气或什么的
如果你不富有或是有名
04:29
And because of celebritificationcelebritification
or whatever随你, if you're not rich丰富 or famous著名,
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你感觉自己被当成空气
04:33
you feel invisible无形.
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04:34
And a lot of moral道德 injury,
sense of feeling感觉 betrayed背叛,
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而且还有很多道德上的伤害
被背叛的感觉
04:37
and frankly坦率地说, in this country国家,
we almost几乎 have one success成功 story故事,
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坦白地说,在这个国家
我们几乎只有一个成功的故事
那就是你上完大学
找份白领的工作,你就是成功的
04:41
which哪一个 is you go to college学院, get
a white-collar白领 job工作, and you're a success成功,
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04:45
and if you don't fit适合 in that formula,
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那么如果你不符合那个公式
04:47
you feel like you're not respected尊敬.
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你会觉得低人一等
那些事情积累起来
04:49
And so that accumulation积累 of things --
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所以当我和特朗普的选民谈话的时候
我现在也还在做这个
04:51
and when I talked to Trump王牌
voters选民 and still do,
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我发现他们中的大部分
对他的失败是完全现实的
04:53
I found发现 most of them completely全然
realistic实际 about his failings缺点,
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04:56
but they said, this is my shot射击.
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但他们说,这是我的机会
GC:然而我预测
他会被提名
04:59
GCGC: And yet然而 I predicted预料到的
that he would be the nominee被提名人,
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05:02
because I've known已知 him for 27 years年份.
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因为我认识他快27年了
他是个营销大师
05:04
He's a master marketer营销,
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他做得非常好
的一件事
05:06
and one of the things
he did extremely非常 well
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2003
奥巴马总统
也做得非常好的
05:08
that President主席 Obama奥巴马 also did
extremely非常 well,
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是简化信息
05:10
was simplifying简化 the message信息,
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简化到到口号
05:12
simplifying简化 down to phrases短语
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还有很接地气的消息
05:15
and to a populist民粹主义 message信息.
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05:17
Even if he can't achieve实现 it,
it sounded满面 good.
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就算他事实上做不到
听起来很不错
05:21
And many许多 people latched锁存 on
to that simplicity简单 again.
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很多人再一次被
那种简单吸引
05:24
It's something they could grasp把握 onto:
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这可是他们能理解的:
05:26
"I get that. I want that.
That sounds声音 fantastic奇妙."
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“我明白了,我要的就是这个
那听起来真的是很棒。”
05:30
And I remember记得 when he used to come
on my show显示 originally本来,
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我记得他以前来上我的节目
“学徒”还是那个“学徒”的时候
05:33
before "The Apprentice学徒"
was even "The Apprentice学徒,"
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他就说这是排名
第一的电视节目
05:36
and he'd他会 say it was the number
one show显示 on TV电视.
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我回了他一句:“不,不是”
05:38
I'd say back to him, "No, it's not."
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然后他说:“是的,格雷琴”
05:40
And he would say, "Yes it is, Gretchen格雷琴."
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我接着说:“不,不是”
05:42
And I would say, "No it's not."
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05:44
But people at home would see that,
and they'd他们会 be like,
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但是人们在家会看到
就会说,
“哇,我得去看这个
排名第一的节目”
05:46
"Wow, I should be watching观看
the number one show显示 on TV电视."
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05:49
And -- lo and behold不料 -- it became成为
the number one show显示 on TV电视.
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你瞧瞧,还真成了第一热门节目
05:52
So he had this, I've seen看到
this ability能力 in him
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所以说,他是很有一套的
我在他身上看到了这种能力
如何成为营销大师
05:55
to be the master marketer营销.
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CA:对许多左派来说
让人搞不清楚的是
05:57
CACA: It's puzzling令人费解
to a lot of people on the left
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很多女性给他投了票
06:00
that so many许多 women妇女 voted for him,
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尽管他的一些评论
06:03
despite尽管 some of his comments注释.
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06:05
GCGC: I wrote a column
about this for Time Motto座右铭,
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GC:关于这个话题
我给《时代周刊》的"座右铭"栏目写过文章
06:08
saying that I really believe
that lot of people put on blinders一叶障目,
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文章里写到,我真的相信
很多人闭着眼睛装瞎
06:13
and maybe for the first time,
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而且可能有史以来第一次
06:16
some people decided决定
that policies政策 they believed相信 in
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有些人觉得
他们认同的政策
以及他们能够被倾听
能够不再无足轻重
06:19
and being存在 heard听说
and not being存在 invisible无形 anymore
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06:21
was more important重要 to them
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这些对他们来说
06:23
than the way in which哪一个 he had acted行动
or acts行为 as a human人的.
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比特朗普身为一个人还要重要
06:27
And so human人的 dignity尊严 --
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所以人类的尊严
不管是特朗普跟
残障记者的口水战
06:29
whether是否 it would be the dust-up布满灰尘
about the disabled reporter记者,
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06:33
or what happened发生
in that audiotape录音带 with Billy比利 Bush衬套
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还是跟比利·布什的录音带事件
06:36
and the way in which哪一个 he spoke
about women妇女 --
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当然还有他调侃女人的方式
06:39
they put that aside在旁边
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他们把这些放在了一旁
装聋作哑
视而不见
06:41
and pretended假装的 as if
they hadn't有没有 seen看到 that or heard听说 that,
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06:43
because to them,
policies政策 were more important重要.
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对他们来说
政策才更重要
06:47
CACA: Right, so just because
someone有人 voted for Trump王牌,
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CA:是的,那么仅仅因为
这些人给特朗普投票
不代表他们就盲目地
支持他所说的一切
06:50
it's not blind adherence附着 to everything
that he's said or stood站在 for.
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GC:没有的,我听很多人跟我讲
06:54
GCGC: No. I heard听说 a lot of people
that would say to me,
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“老天呐,我希望他
在选举前闭嘴
06:57
"Wow, I just wish希望 he would shut关闭 up
before the election选举.
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07:00
If he would just stay quiet安静,
he'd他会 get elected当选."
137
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他只要安静点
他是可以当选的
CA:所以,也许对左派来说
这有一个陷阱
07:04
CACA: And so, maybe for people on the left
there's a trap陷阱 there,
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被支持者鄙视
或仅仅是对他们感到困惑
07:07
to sort分类 of despise讨厌
or just be baffled困惑 by the support支持,
139
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07:12
assuming假设 that it's for some
of the unattractive没有吸引力 features特征.
140
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假设那是为了
一些毫无新意的事情
但实际上就算这样
他们也还是会支持他的
07:15
Actually其实, maybe they're supporting支持
him despite尽管 those,
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因为他们看到让人兴奋的东西
07:18
because they see something exciting扣人心弦.
142
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他们看到了在行动的人
07:20
They see a man of action行动.
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07:21
They see the choking窒息的 hold保持 of government政府
being存在 thrown抛出 off in some way
144
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他们看到政府桎梏
就这么被甩掉
人们对此感到兴奋
07:26
and they're excited兴奋 by that.
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GC:但别忘了我们有看到
左派人士 - 伯尼·桑德斯
07:27
GCGC: But don't forget忘记 we saw that
on the left as well -- Bernie伯尼 Sanders桑德斯.
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所以说,我觉得这是
今天谈论的共识之一
07:31
So this is one of the commonalities共性
that I think we can talk about today今天,
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“外行之年”,
大卫,是不?
07:35
"The Year of the Outsider局外人,"
David大卫 -- right?
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虽然伯尼·桑德斯
在国会有很长时间了
07:39
And even though虽然 Bernie伯尼 Sanders桑德斯
has been in Congress国会 for a long time,
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但这次他绝对是个外行
07:42
he was deemed认为 an outsider局外人 this time.
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07:44
And so there was anger愤怒
on the left as well,
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于是左派也很愤怒
07:46
and so many许多 people were in favor偏爱
of Bernie伯尼 Sanders桑德斯.
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有那么多人
赞成伯尼·桑德斯
我觉得它有共通性
07:50
So I see it as a commonality共性.
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07:54
People who like Trump王牌,
people who like Bernie伯尼 Sanders桑德斯,
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喜欢特朗普的人
喜欢伯尼·桑德斯的人
他们喜欢不同的政策
但骨子里却是愤怒
07:57
they were liking喜欢 different不同 policies政策,
but the underpinning托底 was anger愤怒.
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08:01
CACA: David大卫, there's often经常
this narrative叙述, then,
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CA:大卫,那总有这么个说法
08:05
that the sole唯一 explanation说明
for Trump's特朗普的 victory胜利 and his rise上升
157
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关于特朗普获胜
并崛起的唯一正解
08:11
is his tapping窃听 into anger愤怒
in a very visceral内脏 way.
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就是他很知道
愤怒者的心态
08:15
But you've written书面 a bit about
that it's actually其实 more than that,
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可你也写了
实际上远不止这些
其实还有个流行的世界观
08:20
that there's a worldview世界观
that's being存在 worked工作 on here.
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08:23
Could you talk about that?
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你可不可以就此谈谈?
DB:我会说特朗普知道
但坦白说我可不懂的
08:25
DBD B: I would say he understood了解 what,
frankly坦率地说, I didn't,
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就是我们正在开展的辩论
08:27
which哪一个 is what debate辩论 we were having.
163
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08:29
And so I'd grown长大的 up starting开始 with Reagan里根,
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我是在里根年代长大的
08:32
and it was the big government政府
versus small government政府 debate辩论.
165
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那是大小政府间的辩论
08:35
It was Barry巴里 Goldwater金水
versus George乔治 McGovern麦戈文,
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巴里·戈德华特针对乔治·麦戈文
08:37
and that was the debate辩论
we had been having for a generation.
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那是我们那代人的讨论
08:41
It was: Democrats民主党 wanted to use
government政府 to enhance提高 equality平等,
168
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就是:民主党想用政府加强平等
08:45
Republicans共和党人 wanted to limit限制 government政府
to enhance提高 freedom自由.
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共和党想限制政府来加强自由
那就是辩论
08:48
That was the debate辩论.
170
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我想特朗普清楚
而两大党派却没弄懂的
08:49
He understood了解 what I think
the two major重大的 parties派对 did not,
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08:52
which哪一个 was that's not the debate辩论 anymore.
172
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就是这个不再是辩论了
08:54
The debate辩论 is now open打开 versus closed关闭.
173
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当下的辩论是开放对封闭
08:56
On one side are those who have
the tailwinds顺风 of globalization全球化
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一方面是全球化风生水起
还有背后强大的精英团队
08:59
and the meritocracy任人唯贤 blowing at their back,
175
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2233
09:02
and they tend趋向 to favor偏爱 open打开 trade贸易,
176
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这些人倾向于自由贸易
09:04
open打开 borders国界, open打开 social社会 mores习俗,
177
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1985
有开放的边界,开放的公序良俗
因为这里有很多的机会
09:06
because there are so many许多 opportunities机会.
178
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1962
09:08
On the other side are those
who feel the headwinds逆风 of globalization全球化
179
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另一方面是逆全球化的
09:12
and the meritocracy任人唯贤
just blasting爆破 in their faces面孔,
180
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他们正面对抗精英主义者
09:14
and they favor偏爱 closed关闭 trade贸易,
closed关闭 borders国界, closed关闭 social社会 mores习俗,
181
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这些人喜欢封闭的贸易
封闭的边界还有社会道德
09:18
because they just want some security安全.
182
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因为他们只想要安全
所以他在这个
根本问题上是对的
09:20
And so he was right
on that fundamental基本的 issue问题,
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人们愿意为了安全
而忽视许多东西
09:22
and people were willing愿意
to overlook俯瞰 a lot to get there.
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09:25
And so he felt that sense of security安全.
185
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特朗普有种给人们安全的感觉
09:27
We're speaking请讲 the morning早上 after
Trump's特朗普的 joint联合 session会议 speech言语.
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就在联合会议特朗普发表讲话的
第二天早上,我们说:
09:31
There are three traditional传统
groups in the Republican共和党人 Party派对.
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共和党有三个传统团体
09:34
There are the foreign国外 policies政策 hawks鹰派
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有外交鹰派
相信美国是
全球警察
09:36
who believe in America美国
as global全球 policeman警察.
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特朗普完全否认这个观点
09:38
Trump王牌 totally完全 repudiated否定 that view视图.
190
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09:40
Second第二, there was the social社会 conservatives保守派
191
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第二个是社会保守派
09:42
who believed相信 in religious宗教 liberty自由,
192
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他们相信宗教自由
09:44
pro-life亲生活,
193
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1913
反对堕胎
学校祷告
09:46
prayer祷告 in schools学校.
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09:49
He totally完全 ignored忽视 that.
195
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他完全忽视这点
09:51
There was not a single mention提到
of a single social社会 conservative保守 issue问题.
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3435
对于任何社会保守问题
都只字未提
剩下的就是财富鹰派
09:54
And then there were the fiscal hawks鹰派,
197
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1819
09:56
the people who wanted to cut down
on the national国民 debt债务, Tea Party派对,
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那些个想减少国债的人
还有茶党要求削减政府规模
09:59
cut the size尺寸 of government政府.
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特朗普在扩大政府规模
10:01
He's expanding扩大 the size尺寸 of government政府!
200
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就这样一个人,单枪匹马
革了美国主要政党的命
10:03
Here's这里的 a man who has single-handedly一手
revolutionized革命性 a major重大的 American美国 party派对
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因为他很懂得如何引导辩论
10:06
because he understood了解
where the debate辩论 was headed当家
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2973
10:09
before other people.
203
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1347
在其他人之前
10:11
And then guys like Steve史蒂夫 Bannon班农 come in
204
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像史蒂夫·班农这样的人参与进来
10:13
and give him substance物质 to his impulses冲动.
205
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2027
很是给与实质性的行动
10:16
CACA: And so take that a bit further进一步,
206
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1769
CA:那么就那个更进一步地说
10:18
and maybe expand扩大 a bit more
on your insights见解
207
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也许可以延伸下你们的看法
10:21
into Steve史蒂夫 Bannon's班农的 worldview世界观.
208
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2263
关于史蒂夫·班农的世界观
10:24
Because he's sometimes有时 tarred柏油
in very simple简单 terms条款
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2732
因为他有时候
被极简地标注为
一个危险的,种族主义者
排外的,怒火中烧的家伙
10:26
as this dangerous危险, racist种族主义者,
xenophobic排外, anger-sparking愤怒的火花 person.
210
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6611
10:33
There's more to the story故事;
that is perhaps也许 an unfair不公平 simplification简单化.
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4516
故事可没那么简单;
这种简化是相当不公平
DB:我觉得那部分是对的
10:37
DBD B: I think that part部分 is true真正,
212
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1436
10:39
but there's another另一个 part部分
that's probably大概 true真正, too.
213
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2470
但这有其它部分
也有可能是对的
他是全球化运动的一部分
10:41
He's part部分 of a global全球 movement运动.
214
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2160
10:44
It's like being存在 around Marxists马克思主义者 in 1917.
215
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2685
像1917年兴起的马克思主义者
这里有他,有UKIP党
还有法国国民阵线
10:46
There's him here, there's the UKIPUKIP party派对,
there's the National国民 Front面前 in France法国,
216
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4196
有普京,土耳其
菲律宾
10:51
there's Putin普京, there's a Turkish土耳其 version,
a Philippine菲律宾的 version.
217
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3045
所以我们要体会出
这是全球知识分子运动
10:54
So we have to recognize认识 that this
is a global全球 intellectual知识分子 movement运动.
218
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3471
10:57
And it believes相信
219
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1215
人们认为
10:58
that wisdom智慧 and virtue美德 is not held保持
in individual个人 conversation会话 and civility礼貌
220
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5257
有些人的言谈举止跟品德不沾边
11:04
the way a lot of us
in the enlightenment启示 side of the world世界 do.
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3402
从启蒙运动上来说
我们很多人是这样的
在德语中的“Volt”是人民的意思
11:07
It's held保持 in -- the German德语 word
is the "volk沃尔克" -- in the people,
222
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3578
那是藏在平头老百姓
与生俱来的智慧里
11:11
in the common共同, instinctive直觉的 wisdom智慧
of the plain people.
223
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2860
11:14
And the essential必要 virtue美德 of that people
is always being存在 threatened受威胁 by outsiders外人.
224
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4948
这些人的本质
总受到外界的威胁
特朗普知道如何到达目的
11:19
And he's got a strategy战略
for how to get there.
225
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2683
11:22
He's got a series系列 of policies政策
to bring带来 the people up
226
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4028
他有一套政策
来引导人们
而不去管外界怎么想
11:26
and repudiate否认 the outsiders外人,
227
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2326
11:28
whether是否 those outsiders外人
are Islam伊斯兰教, Mexicans墨西哥人, the media媒体,
228
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4769
不管是伊斯兰
墨西哥人,媒体
东西海岸的精英们...
11:33
the coastal沿海 elites精英...
229
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1870
11:35
And there's a whole整个 worldview世界观 there;
it's a very coherent相干 worldview世界观.
230
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3313
这有一整套的世界观;
是非常一致的世界观
11:38
I sort分类 of have more respect尊重 for him.
231
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1899
我多少有点尊敬他
11:40
I loathe厌恶 what he stands站立 for
and I think he's wrong错误 on the substance物质,
232
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3251
我很不喜欢他的主张
而且我觉得他本质上不对
但是有趣的是
看到有这些想法的人
11:44
but it's interesting有趣 to see someone有人
with a set of ideas思路
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找到了带头大哥唐纳德·特朗普
11:46
find a vehicle车辆, Donald唐纳德 Trump王牌,
234
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1973
11:48
and then try to take control控制
of the White白色 House
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然后意图控制白宫
为了宣扬他的观点
11:51
in order订购 to advance提前 his viewpoint观点.
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11:54
CACA: So it's almost几乎 become成为, like,
that the core核心 question of our time now is:
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CA:所以这几乎成了当下的核心问题:
11:58
Can you be patriotic爱国
but also have a global全球 mindset心态?
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你可不可以保持爱国的心
但同时又有一个全球化的思维
这两个是势不两立吗?
12:03
Are these two things
implacablyimplacably opposed反对 to each other?
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4271
12:08
I mean, a lot of conservatives保守派
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我想说,有很多保守党
在某种程度上
这属于不同的类别
12:11
and, to the extent程度
that it's a different不同 category类别,
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12:14
a lot of Trump王牌 supporters支持者,
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很多特朗普的支持者
12:15
are infuriated激怒 by the coastal沿海 elites精英
and the globalists全球主义者
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他们被东西岸精英
和全球主义者给气疯了
因为在他们看来,这些人
不会给美国带来喝彩
12:19
because they see them
as, sort分类 of, not cheering欢呼 for America美国,
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不会完全拥抱美国价值观
12:23
not embracing拥抱 fully充分 American美国 values.
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你在跟人交流时,有没有看出来过
12:26
I mean, have you seen看到 that
in your conversations对话 with people,
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从你对他们思维的理解中?
12:29
in your understanding理解 of their mindset心态?
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GC:我觉得这是有很大的区别的
12:31
GCGC: I do think that there's
a huge巨大 difference区别 between之间 --
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12:34
I hate讨厌 to put people in categories类别, but,
249
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1982
我很讨厌把人分类,但是
12:36
Middle中间 America美国 versus
people who live生活 on the coasts海岸.
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美国中部对照沿海人士
12:40
It's an entirely完全 different不同 existence存在.
251
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这一个完全不同的状况
12:42
And I grew成长 up in Minnesota明尼苏达, so I have
an understanding理解 of Middle中间 America美国,
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我是在明尼苏达长大的
所以我对中部很了解
12:46
and I've never forgotten忘记了 it.
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我从来没有忘记过
也许这是我为什么
可以体会到发生了什么
12:48
And maybe that's why I have
an understanding理解 of what happened发生 here,
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因为这些人老觉得
没人在倾听他们
12:51
because those people often经常 feel
like nobody's没有人是 listening to them,
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759537
4824
而且人们只专注
加利福尼亚和纽约
12:56
and that we're only concentrating集中
on California加州 and New York纽约.
256
764385
4488
13:00
And so I think that was a huge巨大 reason原因
why Trump王牌 was elected当选.
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4524
所以我认为这是特朗普
能当选的一个很大的原因
13:05
I mean, these people felt like
they were being存在 heard听说.
258
773445
4088
我的意思是
这些人觉得他们有被听到
爱国主义是否牵涉其中
13:09
Whether是否 or not patriotism爱国主义 falls下降 into that,
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我不是很清楚
13:13
I'm not sure about that.
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1169
但我知道一件事
13:14
I do know one thing:
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1171
特朗普昨晚讲的很多
不是保守党的事情
13:16
a lot of things Trump王牌 talked about
last night are not conservative保守 things.
262
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4055
要是让希拉里•克林顿
来做那个演讲
13:20
Had Hillary希拉里 Clinton克林顿 gotten得到 up
and given特定 that speech言语,
263
788198
2477
没有一个共和党人
会起身鼓掌的
13:22
not one Republican共和党人 would have
stood站在 up to applaud鼓掌.
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2357
他提到在基础设施上要花上万亿
13:25
I mean, he's talking about spending开支
a trillion dollars美元 on infrastructure基础设施.
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那不是保守的观点
13:28
That is not a conservative保守 viewpoint观点.
266
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1838
他谈到法定产假
13:30
He talked about government-mandated政府规定
maternity母道 leave离开.
267
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2979
很多女士会爱上这点
这也不是保守观点
13:34
A lot of women妇女 may可能 love that;
it's not a conservative保守 viewpoint观点.
268
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3018
所以这是很精彩的
13:37
So it's fascinating迷人
269
805354
1151
13:38
that people who loved喜爱 what his message信息
was during the campaign运动,
270
806529
3700
那些人在竞选期间
喜欢他的讯息
我不确定 - 你觉得
他们会怎么反应?
13:42
I'm not sure -- how do you
think they'll他们会 react应对 to that?
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13:44
DBD B: I should say I grew成长 up
in Lower降低 Manhattan曼哈顿,
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2186
DB:我可能会说,
我在曼哈顿下城区长大
在ABC地毯公司和Strand书店
13:47
in the triangle三角形 between之间 ABCABC Carpets地毯,
the Strand Bookstore书店
273
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2731
还有Odeon餐厅之间的三区
13:49
and The Odeon国宾 restaurant餐厅.
274
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1314
(笑声)
13:51
(Laughter笑声)
275
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1631
13:52
GCGC: Come to Minnesota明尼苏达 sometime某时!
276
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1854
GC:有空到明尼苏达州来玩!
13:54
(Laughter笑声)
277
822715
1233
(笑声)
CA:你可是如假包换的
沿海精英,我的朋友
13:55
CACA: You are a card-carrying正牌 member会员
of the coastal沿海 elite原种, my man.
278
823972
5650
可是对于昨晚的演讲
你怎么看?
14:01
But what did you make
of the speech言语 last night?
279
829646
2252
这好像是更
温和地进步
14:03
It seemed似乎 to be a move移动
to a more moderate中等 position位置,
280
831922
3447
起码从大面上看起来
14:07
on the face面对 of it.
281
835393
1151
DB:是的,我觉得
这是特朗普最好的演讲
14:08
DBD B: Yeah, I thought it
was his best最好 speech言语,
282
836568
2027
这个打消了他怪伽的形象
14:10
and it took away the freakishness时还相亲相爱 of him.
283
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2038
我的确觉得他有点无厘头
14:12
I do think he's a moral道德 freak怪物,
284
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1856
而且认为他会被那个事实给抵消:
14:14
and I think he'll地狱 be undone未完成 by that fact事实,
285
842561
2802
14:17
the fact事实 that he just doesn't know
anything about anything
286
845387
2779
事实是他就是对于
所有的事一无所知
而且没有好奇心
14:20
and is uncuriousuncurious about it.
287
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1253
14:21
(Laughter笑声)
288
849467
1093
(笑声)
但如果你不去理会这些小毛病
14:22
But if you take away these minor次要 flaws破绽,
289
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2165
我想我们会看到他最赞的一面
14:24
I think we got to see him at his best最好,
290
852773
2072
14:26
and it was revealing揭示 for me
to see him at his best最好,
291
854869
3118
看到他最好的一面
对我来说是有揭示性的
14:30
because to me, it exposed裸露 a central中央
contradiction矛盾 that he's got to confront面对,
292
858011
4517
因为对我来说,这揭示出了
他所必需面对的重要矛盾
他做的很多事情
都是有关提供安全保障的
14:34
that a lot of what he's doing
is offering security安全.
293
862552
3004
14:37
So, "I'm ordering排序 closed关闭 borders国界,
294
865580
1798
于是:“我现在命令封闭边界
我要保护你们,我的人民。”
14:39
I'm going to secure安全 the world世界
for you, for my people."
295
867402
2863
14:42
But then if you actually其实 look
at a lot of his economic经济 policies政策,
296
870289
3048
但是,当你实际上看到
他的很多经济政策
14:45
like health健康 care关心 reform改革, which哪一个 is about
private私人的 health健康 care关心 accounts账户,
297
873361
3781
比如新医改
关乎个人医保账户
14:49
that's not security安全, that's risk风险.
298
877166
2865
那个不是安全的,那是风险
14:52
Educational教育性 vouchers: that's risk风险.
Deregulation放松管制: that's risk风险.
299
880055
3696
教育凭证:那是风险
去除管制:那是风险
14:55
There's really a contradiction矛盾
between之间 the security安全 of the mindset心态
300
883775
3977
真是有点两难:心里想要求安全
14:59
and a lot of the policies政策,
which哪一个 are very risk-oriented风险导向.
301
887776
2784
可还有那么多风险高的政策
15:02
And what I would say, especially特别
having spent花费 this year,
302
890584
3501
而且我要说的是,尤其
是在今年
15:06
the people in rural乡村 Minnesota明尼苏达,
in New Mexico墨西哥 --
303
894109
3865
明尼苏达州乡间的人
新墨西哥州的农民
15:09
they've他们已经 got enough足够 risk风险 in their lives生活.
304
897998
2065
他们的生活里有了足够的风险
15:12
And so they're going to say,
"No thank you."
305
900087
3315
所以他们会说
“不,谢谢你。”
15:15
And I think his health健康 care关心 repeal废除
will fail失败 for that reason原因.
306
903426
3768
然后我认为他的废除医改议案
会因此而失败
CA:尽管你刚才对他的批评
15:19
CACA: But despite尽管 the criticisms批评
you just made制作 of him,
307
907218
2945
15:22
it does at least最小 seem似乎 that he's listening
308
910187
4212
但看起来他至少有在
广纳雅言
15:26
to a surprisingly出奇 wide range范围 of voices声音;
309
914423
2174
不是所有人都
来自同一个地方
15:28
it's not like everyone大家
is coming未来 from the same相同 place地点.
310
916621
2771
15:31
And maybe that leads引线 to a certain某些
amount of chaos混沌 and confusion混乱, but --
311
919416
5260
也许这会导致
一定的混乱和困惑,但是-
GC:我其实不觉得他
有在听那么多的声音
15:36
GCGC: I actually其实 don't think he's listening
to a wide range范围 of voices声音.
312
924700
3222
我认为他就只听
少数几个人
15:39
I think he's listening to very few少数 people.
313
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2030
这是我的感觉
15:42
That's just my impression印象 of it.
314
930000
1803
我认为他昨晚说的
有些事情
15:43
I believe that some of the things
he said last night
315
931827
2455
15:46
had Ivanka伊万卡 all over them.
316
934306
2023
伊万卡有在全程参与
所以我认为他在演讲前
有听过她的话
15:48
So I believe he was listening
to her before that speech言语.
317
936353
3914
昨天晚上的特朗普是那么的义正言辞
和推特上的他截然相反
15:52
And he was Teleprompter提词 Trump王牌
last night, as opposed反对 to Twitter推特 Trump王牌.
318
940291
4223
这就是在此之前,为什么我会说:
15:56
And that's why, before we came来了 out here,
319
944538
2125
15:58
I said, "We better check Twitter推特
to see if anything's什么的 changed."
320
946687
4211
“我们最好检查下推特
看有没有任何事有变化。”
而且我认为你们要记住
16:02
And also I think you have to keep in mind心神
321
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2189
因为他是个很有个性的人
16:05
that because he's such这样 a unique独特 character字符,
322
953135
3183
昨晚我们对他的期待有多少?
16:08
what was the bar酒吧 that we
were expecting期待 last night?
323
956342
2845
在这么高?还是这么高?
16:11
Was it here or here or here?
324
959211
2856
所以他的政治演讲
像模像样
16:14
And so he comes out
and gives a looking political政治 speech言语,
325
962091
3762
16:17
and everyone大家 goes, "Wow! He can do it."
326
965877
3388
然后每个人都说,“哇!他是可以做到的。”
这完全取决于
他要朝哪个方向走
16:21
It just depends依靠
on which哪一个 direction方向 he goes.
327
969289
2022
16:23
DBD B: Yeah, and we're trying
to build建立 bridges桥梁 here,
328
971335
2365
DB:是的,我们在这里
试图对接
特别是对那些
会瞧不上特朗普的观众来说
16:25
and especially特别 for an audience听众
that may可能 have contempt鄙视 for Trump王牌,
329
973724
3037
这是要说的很重要的事
不,这是真实的事
16:28
it's important重要 to say,
no, this is a real真实 thing.
330
976785
2249
但是尽管在一个小时里
我尽最大的努力去尊重他
16:31
But as I try my best最好 to go an hour小时
showing展示 respect尊重 for him,
331
979058
3854
16:34
my thyroid甲状腺 is surging滔滔,
332
982936
1991
我的喉头在上涌
16:36
because I think the oddities古怪
of his character字符
333
984951
3372
因为我认为他
古怪的性格
16:40
really are condemnatory非难的
and are going to doom厄运 him.
334
988347
2481
真的是会让他搞砸
CA:你可一直是保守人士
16:42
CACA: Your reputation声誉 is as a conservative保守.
335
990852
5458
16:48
People would you describe描述 you
as right of center中央,
336
996334
2374
人们说你有点老顽固
然而你在这里
可是心底里反对他
16:50
and yet然而 here you are
with this visceral内脏 reaction反应 against反对 him
337
998732
4233
还有他所持的某些立场
16:54
and some of what he stands站立 for.
338
1002989
1626
我的意思是,-那你怎么
跟人交流?
16:56
I mean, I'm -- how do you have
a conversation会话?
339
1004639
3627
现有的迹象都表明
支持他的人
17:00
The people who support支持 him,
on evidence证据 so far,
340
1008290
2929
都是非常兴奋的
17:03
are probably大概 pretty漂亮 excited兴奋.
341
1011243
2192
他绝对是展示出了
实实在在地参与
17:05
He's certainly当然 shown显示 real真实 engagement订婚
342
1013459
5158
在很多他之前承诺过的东西里
17:10
in a lot of what he promised许诺 to do,
343
1018641
2116
而且带着很强烈的欲望
来彻底变革
17:12
and there is a strong强大 desire欲望
to change更改 the system系统 radically根本.
344
1020781
4101
人们讨厌现在的政府
以及如何对他们不理不睬
17:16
People hate讨厌 what government政府 has become成为
and how it's left them out.
345
1024906
4130
GC:我完全同意这一点
17:21
GCGC: I totally完全 agree同意 with that,
346
1029060
1782
但我觉得,当他昨晚提出
一个庞大政府计划
17:22
but I think that when he was proposing建议
a huge巨大 government政府 program程序 last night
347
1030866
3667
以前,我们常用“刺激”来讲坏话
现在发现真的很讽刺
17:26
that we used to call the bad s-word,
"stimulus刺激物," I find it completely全然 ironic具有讽刺意味.
348
1034557
4068
在某些事上
花费一万亿美元
17:30
To spend a trillion dollars美元
on something --
349
1038649
2008
那不是保守派的立场
17:32
that is not a conservative保守 viewpoint观点.
350
1040681
1775
再一次,我真不觉得
他是共和党人
17:34
Then again, I don't really believe
he's a Republican共和党人.
351
1042480
2486
DB:我认为,作为
一个保守派
17:36
DBD B: And I would say, as someone有人
who identifies识别 as conservative保守:
352
1044990
3021
首先
17:40
first of all,
353
1048035
1163
保守派相信政治有局限性
17:41
to be conservative保守 is to believe
in the limitations限制 of politics政治.
354
1049222
3038
赛缪尔·约翰逊说过:
“凡人心所载,
17:44
Samuel塞缪尔 Johnson约翰逊 said, "Of all the things
that human人的 hearts心中 endure忍受,
355
1052284
3118
17:47
how few少数 are those that kings国王
can cause原因 and cure治愈."
356
1055426
2447
君王定夺有几何。”
17:49
Politics政治 is a limited有限 realm领域;
357
1057897
1645
政治是有限度的
最重要的是
社会的道德品质
17:51
what matters事项 most
is the moral道德 nature性质 of the society社会.
358
1059566
3037
17:54
And so I have to think
character字符 comes first,
359
1062627
2169
所以我首先
会考虑人性
一个没有人格底线的人
17:56
and a man who doesn't pass通过
the character字符 threshold
360
1064820
2373
是不会成为好总统的
17:59
cannot不能 be a good president主席.
361
1067217
1340
第二,我是保守的人
18:00
Second第二, I'm the kind
of conservative保守 who --
362
1068581
2665
这让我回想起亚历山大·汉密尔顿
18:03
I harken哈肯 back to Alexander亚历山大 Hamilton汉密尔顿,
363
1071270
2687
在音乐剧里,他成了拉丁裔的
嘻哈明星,从身高上 -
18:05
who was a Latino拉丁美洲人 hip-hop嘻哈 star
from the heights高度 --
364
1073981
2330
18:08
(Laughter笑声)
365
1076335
4075
(笑声)
可他对美国的定义
是非常面向未来的
18:12
but his definition定义 of America美国
was very future-oriented面向未来.
366
1080434
5371
他是一个小岛上的穷小子
18:17
He was a poor较差的 boy男孩 from the islands岛屿
367
1085829
2356
快速而惊人地
转身成功人士
18:20
who had this rapid快速 and amazing惊人
rise上升 to success成功,
368
1088209
4313
18:24
and he wanted government政府 to give
poor较差的 boys男孩 and girls女孩 like him
369
1092546
2953
他希望政府能给像他
一样贫穷的男孩和女孩
18:27
a chance机会 to succeed成功,
370
1095523
1154
一个成功的机会
18:28
using运用 limited有限 but energetic有活力 government政府
to create创建 social社会 mobility流动性.
371
1096701
3221
通过有限的但是有干劲的政府
来创造社会流动性
对他,对林肯
和泰迪•罗斯福来说
18:31
For him and for Lincoln林肯
and for Teddy泰迪熊 Roosevelt罗斯福,
372
1099946
3584
关于美国的想法
是关于未来的想法
18:35
the idea理念 of America美国
was the idea理念 of the future未来.
373
1103554
2335
18:37
We may可能 have division and racism种族主义
and slavery奴隶制度 in our past过去,
374
1105913
2891
我们过去有分裂
种族主义,还有奴隶制
18:40
but we have a common共同 future未来.
375
1108828
1892
但我们有一个共同的未来
史蒂夫·班农主张的
美国定义是倒退的
18:42
The definition定义 of America美国 that Steve史蒂夫
Bannon班农 stands站立 for is backwards-looking向后寻找.
376
1110744
4198
是旧社会的;是过去式的
18:46
It's nostalgic怀旧的; it's for the past过去.
377
1114966
1947
18:48
And that is not traditionally传统
the American美国 identity身分.
378
1116937
2480
而这可不是传统意思上
的美国身份
坦白讲,在传统意义上
是俄罗斯身份
18:51
That's traditionally传统, frankly坦率地说,
the Russian俄语 identity身分.
379
1119441
2460
那是他们如何界定美德
18:53
That's how they define确定 virtue美德.
380
1121925
1482
所以我认为这是一个
彻头彻尾的背叛
18:55
And so I think it is a fundamental基本的
and foundational基础 betrayal辜负
381
1123431
2853
关于保守主义所持的立场
18:58
of what conservatism保守主义 used to stand for.
382
1126308
1929
CA:那么,我真的很想
听听你的发言
19:00
CACA: Well, I'd like actually其实
like to hear from you,
383
1128261
2348
如果我们让观众当中
有人发表些见解,那我们
19:02
and if we see some comments注释 coming未来 in
from some of you, we'll --
384
1130633
3022
刚刚好有一个
19:05
oh, well here's这里的 one right now.
385
1133679
1472
杰弗瑞·艾伦·卡内基:
我试图说服开明的朋友
19:07
Jeffrey杰弗里 Alan艾伦 Carnegie卡内基: I've tried试着
to convince说服 progressive进步 friends朋友
386
1135175
3140
19:10
that they need to understand理解
what motivates能够激励 Trump王牌 supporters支持者,
387
1138339
2892
他们需要了解是什么
激励着特朗普的支持者
然而他们中很多人已经
放弃了去试图理解
19:13
yet然而 many许多 of them have given特定 up
trying to understand理解
388
1141255
2417
在他们看来是
谎言,自私和仇恨
19:15
in the face面对 of what they perceive感知
as lies, selfishness自私 and hatred.
389
1143696
3144
你怎么跟左派茶党
这些人打交道?
19:18
How would you reach达到 out to such这样 people,
the Tea Party派对 of the left,
390
1146864
3185
去试图弥合鸿沟?
19:22
to try to bridge this divide划分?
391
1150073
1813
GC:我其实认为
在愤怒里有共性
19:25
GCGC: I actually其实 think
there are commonalities共性 in anger愤怒,
392
1153078
3078
正如我前面提过的
19:28
as I expressed表达 earlier.
393
1156180
1438
所以我认为大家可以把自己充满热情
的事情都摆到台面上来
19:29
So I think you can come to the table,
both being存在 passionate多情 about something.
394
1157642
4430
19:34
So at least最小 you care关心.
395
1162096
1530
至少你关注
19:36
And I would like to believe --
the c-wordC-字 has also become成为
396
1164435
3707
我愿意去相信
C字也变成了
一个很糟糕的词 --“妥协”,对吧?
19:40
a horrible可怕 word -- "compromise妥协," right?
397
1168166
2576
所以我们有最左的
和最右的
19:42
So you have the far left
and the far right,
398
1170766
2071
妥协 - 算了吧
19:44
and compromise妥协 -- forget忘记 it.
399
1172861
1383
19:46
Those groups don't want
to even think about it.
400
1174268
2281
那些团体想都
不会去想的
19:48
But you have a huge巨大 swath大片
of voters选民, myself included包括,
401
1176573
3090
但你有一大堆选民
包括我在内
作为登记在册的独立人士
19:51
who are registered注册 independents独立,
402
1179687
1728
19:53
like 40 percent百分 of us, right?
403
1181439
1968
可能有40%,对吧?
所以在美国有很多人
希望看到变革
19:55
So there is a huge巨大 faction of America美国
that wants to see change更改
404
1183431
4301
希望看到人们聚在一起
19:59
and wants to see people come together一起.
405
1187756
2634
20:02
It's just that we have to figure数字 out
406
1190414
1766
事情是我们得弄清楚
如何去做
20:04
how to do that.
407
1192204
1411
CA:所以让我们再对此多谈一下
20:05
CACA: So let's talk about that for a minute分钟,
408
1193639
2118
因为我们在做的TED对话
我们在尝试对接沟通
20:07
because we're having these TEDTED Dialogues对话,
we're trying to bridge.
409
1195781
3220
外面有很多人
现在,尤其是左派的
20:11
There's a lot of people out there,
right now, perhaps也许 especially特别 on the left,
410
1199025
3676
20:14
who think this is a terrible可怕 idea理念,
411
1202725
1791
他们认为这是个糟糕的想法
20:16
that actually其实, the only moral道德 response响应
to the great tyranny暴政
412
1204540
5939
但事实上,对美国大独裁
唯一道义上的反应
那也许是会即将发生的:
20:22
that may可能 be about to emerge出现 in America美国
413
1210503
4011
是在每个阶段都抵制它
拼了命地反抗
20:26
is to resist it at every一切 stage阶段,
is to fight斗争 it tooth齿 and nail,
414
1214538
3632
试图这么做是个错误
20:30
it's a mistake错误 to try and do this.
415
1218194
1881
20:32
Just fight斗争!
416
1220099
1182
就斗争么!
有这样的例子吗?
20:34
Is there a case案件 for that?
417
1222001
2345
DB:这要看“斗争”的意思
如果仅字面上来说,那没有
20:36
DBD B: It depends依靠 what "fight斗争" means手段.
If it means手段 literal文字 fighting战斗, then no.
418
1224370
3580
如果是指游行,那么
也许游行会提高意识
20:39
If it means手段 marching行军, well maybe
marching行军 to raise提高 consciousness意识,
419
1227974
3124
20:43
that seems似乎 fine.
420
1231122
1265
那似乎不错
但如果你想要在这个国家改变
我们是通过党派和政治来实现的
20:44
But if you want change更改 in this country国家,
we do it through通过 parties派对 and politics政治.
421
1232411
4131
20:48
We organize组织 parties派对, and those parties派对
are big, diverse多种, messy coalitions联盟,
422
1236566
4777
拉帮结派的,这些庞大
多元而凌乱的同盟
20:53
and we engage从事 in politics政治,
423
1241367
1618
和我们一起参与政治
政治总是在道德上
是不满意的
20:55
and politics政治 is always
morally道德 unsatisfying不满意
424
1243009
2328
因为它总是
一堆妥协
20:57
because it's always
a bunch of compromises妥协.
425
1245361
2477
但政治本质上是一个
部分真理间的竞争
20:59
But politics政治 is essentially实质上
a competition竞争 between之间 partial局部 truths真理.
426
1247862
3782
21:03
The Trump王牌 people have a piece
of the truth真相 in America美国.
427
1251668
2635
支持特朗普的人
对美国现状还是有些真相的
21:06
I think Trump王牌 himself他自己 is the wrong错误 answer回答
to the right question,
428
1254327
3113
我觉得特朗普自身
是对正确问题的错误答案
但他们有一些道理
21:09
but they have some truth真相,
429
1257464
2011
21:11
and it's truth真相 found发现 in the epidemic疫情
of opiates鸦片 around the country国家,
430
1259499
4149
在全国上下集体
麻木中得到的真相
21:15
it's truth真相 found发现 in
the spread传播 of loneliness孤单,
431
1263672
2992
在孤单寂寞的迷雾
中发现的真相
在被生活打败的人
身上发现的真相
21:18
it's the truth真相 found发现 in people
whose谁的 lives生活 are inverted.
432
1266688
2959
21:21
They peaked见顶 professionally专业 at age年龄 30,
433
1269671
2422
30岁时,他们在职业上达到顶峰
然后就一直走下坡路
21:24
and it's all been downhill下坡 since以来.
434
1272117
2025
21:26
And so, understanding理解 that
doesn't take fighting战斗,
435
1274166
2514
所以,理解那不需要抵抗
需要对话,然后问问自己
21:28
it takes conversation会话 and then asking,
436
1276704
1951
21:30
"What are we going to replace更换 Trump王牌 with?"
437
1278679
2010
“我们拿什么来替换特朗普?”
GC:但昨晚你看到了斗争
即使是在演讲
21:32
GCGC: But you saw fighting战斗 last night,
even at the speech言语,
438
1280713
2667
因为你看到了民主党的女士
穿着白衫来到这里
21:35
because you saw the Democratic民主的 women妇女
who came来了 and wore穿着 white白色
439
1283404
2868
以纪念妇女参政运动
21:38
to honor荣誉 the suffragette妇女参政权论者 movement运动.
440
1286296
1708
21:40
I remember记得 back during the campaign运动
441
1288028
2027
我记得那时的运动
一些特朗普的支持者
很想摆脱修正案
21:42
where some Trump王牌 supporters支持者 wanted
to actually其实 get rid摆脱 of the amendment修订
442
1290079
3489
- 允许女性投票
21:45
that allowed允许 us to vote投票 as women妇女.
443
1293592
1714
21:47
It was like, what?
444
1295330
2168
这算什么?
21:49
So I don't know if
that's the right way to fight斗争.
445
1297522
2326
所以我不知道是否
这是正确的斗争方式
这很有趣
因为我在观众席
21:51
It was interesting有趣,
because I was looking in the audience听众,
446
1299872
2808
想看看有没有
没穿白衫的民主党女士
21:54
trying to see Democratic民主的 women妇女
who didn't wear穿 white白色.
447
1302704
2555
所以那里有很多事情
在发生
21:57
So there's a lot going on there,
448
1305283
1550
21:58
and there's a lot of ways方法 to fight斗争
that are not necessarily一定 doing that.
449
1306857
6635
而且有很多斗争的方式
但不一定要这样做
22:05
CACA: I mean, one of the key
questions问题, to me, is:
450
1313516
2474
CA:对我来说关键的
问题之一是:
投票选特朗普的人
更多的是在中部
22:08
The people who voted for Trump王牌
but, if you like, are more in the center中央,
451
1316014
5649
好像他们更容易被说服
22:13
like they're possibly或者
amenable适合 to persuasion劝说 --
452
1321687
3582
他们更有可能群情奋起:
22:17
are they more likely容易 to be persuaded说服了
by seeing眼看 a passionate多情 uprising起义
453
1325293
5791
22:23
of people saying, "No, no, no, you can't!"
454
1331108
3513
“不,不,不,你不能这样!”
22:26
or will that actually其实 piss小便 them off
and push them away?
455
1334645
3914
或者那会惹毛他们
然后使他们对此置之不理?
DB:要怎么说服我们呢?
22:30
DBD B: How are any of us persuaded说服了?
456
1338583
1648
22:32
Am I going to persuade说服 you by saying,
"Well, you're kind of a bigot独断论者,
457
1340255
3327
要说服你,我会说
“你是个独断论者
你支持偏执
你支持性别歧视
22:35
you're supporting支持 bigotry偏执,
you're supporting支持 sexism性别歧视.
458
1343606
2941
你个蒙昧落后的
旧专制党派崛起的法西斯”。
22:38
You're a primitive原始, fascistic法西斯 rise上升
from some authoritarian独裁的 past过去"?
459
1346571
4628
22:43
That's probably大概 not going to be
too persuasive说服力 to you.
460
1351223
2685
那可能对你不太有说服力
22:45
And so the way any of us
are persuaded说服了 is by:
461
1353932
2641
于是大家是这样被说服的:
22:48
a) some basic基本 show显示 of respect尊重
for the point of view视图, and saying,
462
1356597
4342
首先对观点以示必要的尊重
然后说
“我认为这个人是不会
让你去到你想去的地方的”
22:52
"I think this guy is not going
to get you where you need to go."
463
1360963
3319
22:56
And there are two phrases短语
you've heard听说 over and over again,
464
1364306
3380
还有两个耳朵都
听得起茧子的词
22:59
wherever哪里 you go in the country国家.
465
1367710
1493
只要你还在美国
一,架空的国家
23:01
One, the phrase短语 "flyover天桥 country国家."
466
1369227
1891
这个讲了很多年了
23:03
And that's been heard听说 for years年份,
467
1371142
1848
但今年我会说
我几乎每个小时都在听
23:05
but I would say this year,
I heard听说 it almost几乎 on an hourly每小时 basis基础,
468
1373014
3696
23:08
a sense of feeling感觉 invisible无形.
469
1376734
1511
无孔不入的感觉
23:10
And then the sense a sense of the phrase短语
"political政治 correctness正确性."
470
1378269
3758
二,对于“政治正确”的体会
有那种逆反的心态:
“他们甚至不让我们说自己想的”
23:14
Just that rebellion暴动: "They're not even
letting出租 us say what we think."
471
1382051
4079
23:18
And I teach at Yale耶鲁.
472
1386154
1325
我在耶鲁大学教书
23:19
The narrowing变窄 of debate辩论 is real真实.
473
1387503
4269
辩论的收紧是实打实的
CA:所以你会说是自由主义者
自己掉进了坑里
23:24
CACA: So you would say this is a trap陷阱
that liberals自由主义者 have fallen堕落 into
474
1392449
3204
23:27
by celebrating庆祝 causes原因
they really believe in,
475
1395677
3096
通过庆祝他们
真地相信的东西
常常以“政治的正确”的
语言来表达
23:30
often经常 expressed表达 through通过 the language语言
of "political政治 correctness正确性."
476
1398797
3962
他们已经造成了损害
他们已经使人对他们置之不理
23:34
They have doneDONE damage损伤.
They have pushed people away.
477
1402783
4335
DB:我会说,尽管很多争论
23:39
DBD B: I would say
a lot of the argument论据, though虽然,
478
1407142
2148
比如“骨子里的法西斯主义”
“集权主义”
23:41
with "descent降落 to fascism法西斯主义,"
"authoritarianism独裁主义" --
479
1409314
2361
对人们来说有点太过了
23:43
that just feels感觉 over-the-top越过高峰 to people.
480
1411699
2189
听我说,我写了
800万的反特朗普专栏
23:45
And listen, I've written书面
eight million百万 anti-Trump抗特朗普 columns,
481
1413912
2783
23:48
but it is a problem问题, especially特别
for the coastal沿海 media媒体,
482
1416719
2670
但这是个问题
特别是对于沿海媒体来说
23:51
that every一切 time he does something
slightly wrong错误, we go to 11,
483
1419413
4173
每当他只是犯点小错误的时候
我们都会小题大做
23:55
and we're at 11 every一切 day.
484
1423610
2186
我们每天都在上纲上线
而且某种程度上
是可信度的问题
23:57
And it just strains
credibility可信性 at some point.
485
1425820
2840
CA:狼来了的故事
有点讲过头,也太早了
24:00
CACA: Crying哭泣 wolf a little too loud
and a little too early.
486
1428684
2726
但可能我们还真有
对付狼来了的时候
24:03
But there may可能 be a time
when we really do have to cry wolf.
487
1431434
2867
24:06
GCGC: But see -- one of the most
important重要 things to me
488
1434325
2572
GC:但是对我来说重要的
事情之一
是传统媒体如何
应对特朗普
24:08
is how the conservative保守 media媒体
handles手柄 Trump王牌.
489
1436921
2621
24:12
Will they call him out
when things are not true真正,
490
1440439
4573
一旦事情不对
他们就点特朗普的名?
24:17
or will they just go along沿 with it?
491
1445036
2183
还是不去理会他?
对我来说这是
整个讨论的重中之重
24:19
To me, that is what is essential必要
in this entire整个 discussion讨论,
492
1447243
4029
24:23
because when you have
followers追随者 of somebody
493
1451296
4584
因为当有跟屁虫
24:27
who don't really care关心
if he tells告诉 the truth真相 or not,
494
1455904
3632
不关心主子是否说实话
24:31
that can be very dangerous危险.
495
1459560
2285
这可是相当地危险
所以对我来说就是:
保守媒体怎么应对?
24:33
So to me, it's: How is the conservative保守
media媒体 going to respond响应 to it?
496
1461869
4286
我的意思是你一个劲地点他的名
24:38
I mean, you've been calling调用 them out.
497
1466179
2494
但是,其他保守媒体会怎么应对?
24:40
But how will other forms形式
of conservative保守 media媒体 deal合同 with that
498
1468697
4385
24:45
as we move移动 forward前锋?
499
1473106
1158
随着我们向前进
DB:一切都转换了
24:46
DBD B: It's all shifted, though虽然.
500
1474288
1396
保守媒体要么是福克斯要么是
Charles Krauthammer或George Will
24:47
The conservative保守 media媒体 used to be Fox狐狸
or Charles查尔斯 Krauthammer克劳萨默 or George乔治 Will.
501
1475708
3638
现在它们不再是保守媒体
24:51
They're no longer the conservative保守 media媒体.
502
1479370
2004
现在还有一大批的
机构继续右倾
24:53
Now there's another另一个 whole整个 set
of institutions机构 further进一步 right,
503
1481398
2831
比如说Breitbart和Infowars
Alex Jones,Laura Ingraham
24:56
which哪一个 is Breitbart布赖特巴特 and InfowarsInfowars,
Alex亚历克斯 Jones琼斯, Laura劳拉 Ingraham英格拉哈姆,
504
1484253
5597
25:01
and so they're the ones那些 who are now
his base基础, not even so much Fox狐狸.
505
1489874
3801
他们是一群他的基地
而不是福克斯
CA:我最后的问题暂且
叫做问题的真相
25:05
CACA: My last question for the time being存在
is just on this question of the truth真相.
506
1493699
4087
25:09
I mean, it's one of the scariest最可怕的
things to people right now,
507
1497810
2879
我是想说这是现在人们面临
最可怕的事情之一
是全国上下都没在
什么是真相上达成一致
25:12
that there is no agreement协议,
nationally国内, on what is true真正.
508
1500713
3683
我从来没有见过像这样的事情
25:16
I've never seen看到 anything like it,
509
1504420
1790
25:18
where facts事实 are so massively大规模 disputed争议.
510
1506234
3337
事实争议又如此巨大
25:21
Your whole整个 newspaper报纸, sir先生,
is delivering交付 fake news新闻 every一切 day.
511
1509595
3551
先生,你整个报纸
每天都在提供假消息
DB:以及失败
25:25
DBD B: And failing失败.
512
1513170
1508
25:26
(Laughter笑声)
513
1514702
1088
(笑声)
CA:失败,深表同情
25:27
CACA: And failing失败. My commiserationscommiserations.
514
1515814
1956
25:29
But is there any path路径
515
1517794
6290
但有没有办法
25:36
whereby因此 we can start开始 to get
some kind of consensus共识,
516
1524108
3810
可以得到一些共识
25:39
to believe the same相同 things?
517
1527942
2860
去相信同样的事情?
线上论坛可以起点作用吗?
25:42
Can online线上 communities社区 play a role角色 here?
518
1530826
3568
25:46
How do we fix固定 this?
519
1534418
1169
我们如何解决这个问题?
GC:我明白怎么回事
25:47
GCGC: See, I understand理解 how that happened发生.
520
1535611
2038
那是另一种群情激昂
25:49
That's another另一个 groundswell风潮 kind of emotion情感
521
1537673
2199
25:51
that was going on in the middle中间 of America美国
522
1539896
2015
正在美国中部地区上演
25:53
and not being存在 heard听说,
523
1541935
1233
无人理会
他们认为主流媒体有偏见
25:55
in thinking思维 that the mainstream主流
media媒体 was biased.
524
1543192
3031
25:58
There's a difference区别, though虽然,
between之间 being存在 biased and being存在 fake.
525
1546247
4066
当然偏见和虚假之间是有区别的
26:02
To me, that is a very important重要
distinction分别 in this conversation会话.
526
1550337
3573
对我来说,也是这次对话中
非常重要的区别
26:05
So let's just say that there was some bias偏压
in the mainstream主流 media媒体.
527
1553934
4498
我们暂且认为
主流媒体是有偏见的
那么,好吧,还是有办法
去尝试弥补的
26:10
OK. So there are ways方法
to try and mend修补 that.
528
1558456
2933
26:13
But what Trump's特朗普的 doing
is nuclearizingnuclearizing that and saying,
529
1561413
4075
但特朗普所作所为更加提炼了
这个问题,他说:
“我们会打电话给
所有这些小道消息。”
26:17
"Look, we're just going to call
all of that fake."
530
1565512
2538
26:20
That's where it gets得到 dangerous危险.
531
1568074
1546
那是开始变得危险的事情
26:21
CACA: Do you think enough足够 of his supporters支持者
532
1569644
2861
CA:你认为他有足够数量的支持者
26:24
have a greater更大 loyalty忠诚
to the truth真相 than to any ...
533
1572529
4245
对真相忠贞不二?
比如原则上不去支持那些
26:28
Like, the principle原理
of not supporting支持 something
534
1576798
4639
显然错得离谱的东西
26:33
that is demonstrablydemonstrably not true真正
535
1581461
1998
26:35
actually其实 matters事项, so there will be
a correction更正 at some point?
536
1583483
2961
真正重要的,所以
在一定程度上是可以修正的
DB:我想真相
终会大白的
26:38
DBD B: I think the truth真相
eventually终于 comes out.
537
1586468
2290
26:40
So for example, Donald唐纳德 Trump王牌
has based基于 a lot of his economic经济 policy政策
538
1588782
3156
比方说,唐纳德•特朗普的
很多经济政策基于
26:43
on this supposition假想 that Americans美国人
have lost丢失 manufacturing制造业 jobs工作
539
1591962
3004
美国人失去了制造业的工作
得设想
是因为被中国人偷走了
26:46
because they've他们已经 been stolen被盗
by the Chinese中文.
540
1594990
2042
26:49
That is maybe 13 percent百分
of the jobs工作 that left.
541
1597056
2926
可能还剩下13%的工作
26:52
The truth真相 is that 87 percent百分 of the jobs工作
were replaced更换 by technology技术.
542
1600006
3582
事实是87%的工作
被科技所取代
26:55
That is just the truth真相.
543
1603612
1778
那就是事实
26:57
And so as a result结果, when he says,
544
1605414
2662
作为一个结果,当他说:
27:00
"I'm going to close TPPTPP
and all the jobs工作 will come roaring咆哮 back,"
545
1608100
3967
“我要关掉TPP,
让工作都呼啦啦地回来,”
工作是不会呼啦啦地就回来的
27:04
they will not come roaring咆哮 back.
546
1612091
1561
在我的理念里这是实打实的事实
27:05
So that is an actual实际 fact事实, in my belief信仰.
547
1613676
3084
还有:
27:08
And --
548
1616784
1158
(笑声)
27:09
(Laughter笑声)
549
1617966
1299
GC:但我的意思是他的支持者
所认为的是事实
27:11
GCGC: But I'm saying what
his supporters支持者 think is the truth真相,
550
1619289
2716
27:14
no matter how many许多 times
you might威力 say that,
551
1622029
2135
不管你说多少次
他们仍然相信他
27:16
they still believe him.
552
1624188
1206
DB:但最终工作要么就是会回来
要么就是不会回来
27:17
DBD B: But eventually终于 either jobs工作
will come back or they will not come back,
553
1625418
3759
27:21
and at that point, either something
will work or it doesn't work,
554
1629201
3095
在这一点上是否
有效起作用
它不起效或是在强大的
市场下不起效
27:24
and it doesn't work or not work
because of great marketing营销,
555
1632320
2795
27:27
it works作品 because it actually其实
addresses地址 a real真实 problem问题
556
1635139
2545
它起效因为它实际上
解决了一个真正的问题
所以我认为
真相总会大白的
27:29
and so I happen发生 to think
the truth真相 will out.
557
1637708
2486
27:32
CACA: If you've got a question,
please raise提高 your hand here.
558
1640218
3943
CA:有什么问题想问的请举手!
27:36
Yael耶尔 EisenstatEisenstat: I'll speak说话 into the box.
559
1644185
2620
Yael Eisenstat:我对着TED录音盒讲
27:38
My name's名字的 Yael耶尔 EisenstatEisenstat.
560
1646829
2994
我叫Yael Eisenstat
我听到很多这样的对话
27:41
I hear a lot of this talk
561
1649847
1611
27:43
about how we all need to start开始
talking to each other more
562
1651482
2679
关于我们要如何互相之间
积极参与更多的对话
27:46
and understanding理解 each other more,
563
1654185
1676
彼此了解更多
我甚至还发表过
有关这个话题的文章
27:47
and I've even written书面 about this,
published发表 on this subject学科 as well,
564
1655885
3540
但是现在,我还是会听自由主义者的
- 是的,我住在纽约
27:51
but now today今天 I keep hearing听力 liberals自由主义者 --
yes, I live生活 in New York纽约,
565
1659449
5110
我可以被认为是个自由主义者
27:56
I can be considered考虑 a liberal自由主义的 --
566
1664583
1723
27:58
we sit here and self-analyze自我分析:
567
1666330
1699
我们坐在这里自省:
28:00
What did we do to not understand理解
the Rust Belt?
568
1668053
2309
我们做了什么不去
了解铁锈地带?
28:02
Or: What can we do to understand理解
Middle中间 America美国 better?
569
1670386
2850
或者:我们能做些什么
来更好地了解美国中部?
28:05
And what I'd like to know:
570
1673260
1448
我想知道的是:
你有没有看到美国中部
有任何尝试来对话?
28:06
Have you seen看到 any attempts尝试
or conversations对话 from Middle中间 America美国
571
1674732
3926
想要更好了解所谓的沿海精英
我可以做些什么?
28:10
of what can I do to understand理解
the so-called所谓 coastal沿海 elites精英 better?
572
1678682
3217
28:13
Because I'm just offended生气
as being存在 put in a box as a coastal沿海 elite原种
573
1681923
4003
因为我对自己被归类到沿海精英的
小圈子里,感到有点冒犯
28:17
as someone有人 in Middle中间 America美国 is
as being存在 considered考虑 a flyover天桥 state
574
1685950
3224
可作为美国中部的人
觉得被架空
没人理会
28:21
and not listened听了 to.
575
1689198
1477
28:22
CACA: There you go, I can hear FacebookFacebook的
cheering欢呼 as you --
576
1690699
2743
CA:你说到点子上了
脸书在为你叫好
(笑声)
28:25
(Laughter笑声)
577
1693466
1100
DB:我会说,作为向来保守的
28:26
DBD B: I would say -- and this is someone有人
who has been conservative保守
578
1694590
3550
成年人
28:30
all my adult成人 life --
579
1698164
1166
当你中规中矩地长大成人
28:31
when you grow增长 up conservative保守,
580
1699354
1767
28:33
you learn学习 to speak说话 both languages语言.
581
1701145
1955
你得学会说两种话
28:35
Because if I'm going to listen to music音乐,
582
1703806
2404
因为如果我想听音乐
我不会去听泰德·牛正特
28:38
I'm not going to listen to Ted摊晒 Nugent纽金特.
583
1706234
2118
28:40
So a lot of my favorite喜爱 rock bands
are all on the left.
584
1708376
4681
于是,很多我喜爱的摇滚乐队
都是左派
如果我要去上学
28:45
If I'm going to go to a school学校,
585
1713081
1538
28:46
I'm going probably大概 to school学校
where the culture文化 is liberal自由主义的.
586
1714643
2753
我可能会去文化
自由的学校
28:49
If I'm going to watch a sitcom情景喜剧
587
1717420
1607
如果我去观看情景剧
28:51
or a late-night深夜 comedy喜剧 show显示,
it's going to be liberal自由主义的.
588
1719051
2563
或是午夜夜场秀
会选轻松的
28:53
If I'm going to read a good newspaper报纸,
it'll它会 be the New York纽约 Times.
589
1721638
3183
我要是读一份靠谱的报纸
那会是纽约时报
因此,你学会了说
两种话
28:56
As a result结果, you learn学习
to speak说话 both languages语言.
590
1724845
2266
28:59
And that actually其实, at least最小
for a number of years年份,
591
1727135
2884
实际上,至少
有很多年
当我开始跟William F. Buckley
在开播“国家评论”的时候
29:02
when I started开始 at National国民 Review评论
with William威廉 F. Buckley巴克利,
592
1730043
2818
这让我们变得更加尖锐
29:04
it made制作 us sharper更清晰,
593
1732885
1480
因为我们都习惯了
每天与人争论
29:06
because we were used to arguing争论
against反对 people every一切 day.
594
1734389
3627
29:10
The problem问题 now that's happened发生
is you have ghettoization贫民窟 on the right
595
1738040
3309
现在的问题是
你自我设定为右派
然后你完全活在右派世界里
29:13
and you can live生活 entirely完全 in rightworldrightworld,
596
1741373
2361
29:15
so as a result结果, the quality质量 of argument论据
on the right has diminished减少,
597
1743758
3471
于是右派的争论价值就会缩减
因为你不在对方阵营
29:19
because you're not in the other side
598
1747253
2543
29:21
all the time.
599
1749820
1253
一直以来
但我到觉得,如果你住在
明尼苏达,爱荷华或亚利桑那
29:23
But I do think if you're living活的
in Minnesota明尼苏达 or Iowa爱荷华州 or Arizona亚利桑那,
600
1751097
4952
29:28
the coastal沿海 elites精英
make themselves他们自己 aware知道的 to you,
601
1756073
2335
你会意识到
沿海精英的存在
所以你也懂这种语言
29:30
so you know that language语言 as well,
602
1758432
1686
29:32
but it's not the reverse相反.
603
1760142
1428
但它不是相反的
CA:但是,中部人民对于
沿海精英没能理解的是什么?
29:33
CACA: But what does Middle中间 America美国
not get about coastal沿海 elites精英?
604
1761594
4231
29:37
So the critique批判 is,
605
1765849
3040
有批评说
29:40
you are not dealing交易
with the real真实 problems问题.
606
1768913
2762
你没有抓住
问题的核心
29:43
There's a feeling感觉 of a snobbishness势利,
an elitism精英 that is very off-putting倒胃口.
607
1771699
6461
很惹人嫌的精英主义
都很势利眼
他们少了些什么?
29:50
What are they missing失踪?
608
1778184
1168
如果你能播种一条真理
29:51
If you could plant one piece of truth真相
609
1779376
3503
29:54
from the mindset心态 of someone有人
in this room房间, for example,
610
1782903
5190
比方说
种到在场人的心田上
你会对他们说什么呢?
30:00
what would you say to them?
611
1788117
2728
DB:仅仅是我们有如何疯狂地优秀?
30:02
DBD B: Just how insanely疯狂地 wonderful精彩 we are.
612
1790869
1915
30:04
(Laughter笑声)
613
1792808
1603
(笑声)
不,我拒绝分类
30:06
No, I reject拒绝 the category类别.
614
1794435
2350
30:08
The problem问题 with populism民粹主义
is the same相同 problem问题 with elitism精英.
615
1796809
3484
民粹主义和精英主义
有同样的问题
这就是偏见
30:12
It's just a prejudice偏见 on the basis基础
616
1800317
2298
30:14
of probably大概 an over-generalized过度泛化
social社会 class distinction分别
617
1802639
2950
对过分广义的社会阶级
简单粗俗
脱离现实
30:17
which哪一个 is too simplistic简单化
to apply应用 in reality现实.
618
1805613
3055
我们纽约人知道
纽约的有些人
30:20
Those of us in New York纽约 know
there are some people in New York纽约
619
1808692
2942
是非常了不起的
可也有人是可悲的
30:23
who are completely全然 awesome真棒,
and some people who are pathetic可怜,
620
1811658
2927
30:26
and if you live生活 in Iowa爱荷华州, some people
are awesome真棒 and some people are pathetic可怜.
621
1814609
3734
如果你住在爱荷华
有些人很棒,有些人很糟
这不是你有什么
学历的问题
30:30
It's not a question
of what degree you have
622
1818367
2068
30:32
or where you happen发生 to live生活
in the country国家.
623
1820459
2048
或者你住在哪里
区别仅仅在于政治权力
简单粗暴地简化
30:34
The distinction分别 is just a crude原油
simplification简单化 to arouse引起 political政治 power功率.
624
1822531
3474
GC:但我会鼓励人们
去看电视新闻
30:38
GCGC: But I would encourage鼓励 people
to watch a television电视 news新闻 show显示
625
1826029
4585
30:42
or read a column
that they normally一般 wouldn't不会.
626
1830638
2669
或去读他们通常
不会读的专栏
所以如果你是特朗普的支持者
改天去看看其它阵营
30:46
So if you are a Trump王牌 supporter支持者,
watch the other side for a day,
627
1834221
5026
因为你得脱离幻想
30:51
because you need to come out of the bubble泡沫
628
1839271
2021
30:53
if you're ever going
to have a conversation会话.
629
1841316
2102
如果要想去对话
30:55
And both sides双方 -- so if you're a liberal自由主义的,
630
1843442
2614
而且两方--如果你是个自由主义者
30:58
then watch something
that's very conservative保守.
631
1846080
2831
那么看些非常保守的东西
31:00
Read a column that is not something
you would normally一般 read,
632
1848935
3648
读些平时不翻的专栏
31:04
because then you gain获得 perspective透视
of what the other side is thinking思维,
633
1852607
3290
因为这样你增加对保守派
立场的一些理解
31:07
and to me, that's a start开始
of coming未来 together一起.
634
1855921
2460
对我而言,这只是
走到一起的开始
我担心你在担心的
同样的事情 - 这些幻像
31:10
I worry担心 about the same相同 thing
you worry担心 about, these bubbles泡泡.
635
1858405
2841
我认为如果你仅仅
看个别事例
31:13
I think if you only watch
certain某些 entities实体,
636
1861270
2020
31:15
you have no idea理念 what the rest休息
of the world世界 is talking about.
637
1863314
2931
你不知道世界上
其它地方在说什么
DB:我想不仅仅是观察
31:18
DBD B: I think not only watching观看,
638
1866269
2509
31:20
being存在 part部分 of an organization组织
that meets符合 at least最小 once一旦 a month
639
1868802
3014
作为社团成员至少
每月去碰个头,见个面
31:23
that puts看跌期权 you in direct直接 contact联系
with people completely全然 unlike不像 yourself你自己
640
1871840
3330
让你有机会直面
与你完全不同的人
我们都有责任这么做
31:27
is something we all have
a responsibility责任 for.
641
1875194
2151
这么说可能有点不对
31:29
I may可能 get this a little wrong错误,
642
1877369
1467
但我认为美国最畅销的车型
31:30
but I think of the top-selling最畅销
automotive汽车 models楷模 in this country国家,
643
1878860
3245
31:34
I think the top最佳 three or four
are all pickup捡起 trucks卡车.
644
1882129
3322
前三,前四都是小货车
所以扪心自问:
我认识的人中谁有辆小货车?
31:37
So ask yourself你自己: How many许多 people
do I know who own拥有 a pickup捡起 truck卡车?
645
1885475
3812
对很多人来说可能非常少
31:41
And it could be very few少数 or zero
for a lot of people.
646
1889311
3429
这就是问题的
一种警示
31:44
And that's sort分类 of a warning警告 sign标志
kind of a problem问题.
647
1892764
2954
31:47
Where can I join加入 a club俱乐部
648
1895742
1749
在哪里我可以加入俱乐部
31:49
where I'll have a lot in common共同
with a person who drives驱动器 a pickup捡起 truck卡车
649
1897515
3414
在哪里我会跟驾驶小货车的人有共通?
因为我们相互之间有同好?
31:52
because we have a common共同
interest利益 in whatever随你?
650
1900953
2175
31:55
CACA: And so the internet互联网 is definitely无疑
contributing贡献 to this.
651
1903152
2812
CA:当然互联网对此绝对少不了
下面是Chris Ajemian的问题:
31:57
A question here from Chris克里斯 AjemianAjemian:
652
1905988
2153
“你如何看待资讯架构?
32:00
"How do you feel structure结构体
of communications通讯,
653
1908165
2125
32:02
especially特别 the prevalence流行 of social社会
media媒体 and individualized个性化 content内容,
654
1910314
3730
特别是社交媒体和
个性化内容的普及
32:06
can be used to bring带来 together一起
a political政治 divide划分,
655
1914068
2470
能否用给政治鸿沟带来新意?
32:08
instead代替 of just filing备案 communities社区
into echo回声 chambers?"
656
1916562
3235
而不是到社区居委会填表登记。”
32:11
I mean, it looks容貌 like FacebookFacebook的
and Google谷歌, since以来 the election选举,
657
1919821
4449
我的意思是
自从选举以来,脸书
和谷歌都在努力解决这个问题
32:16
are working加工 hard on this question.
658
1924294
1679
32:17
They're trying to change更改 the algorithms算法
659
1925997
3818
他们尝试修改算法
32:21
so that they don't amplify放大 fake news新闻
660
1929839
3639
来防止假消息被放大
32:25
to the extent程度 that it happened发生
last time round回合.
661
1933502
2406
而不像上一轮普选时的那样
你有看到任何
有意义的迹象吗?
32:27
Do you see any other
promising有希望 signs迹象 of ...?
662
1935932
2224
32:30
GCGC: ... or amplify放大 one side
of the equation方程.
663
1938180
2103
GC:...或者是放大
等式的另一边
CA:正式
32:32
CACA: Exactly究竟.
664
1940307
1151
GC:我认为那是右派
吵个不停的争论
32:33
GCGC: I think that was the constant不变
argument论据 from the right,
665
1941482
4365
32:37
that social社会 media媒体
and the internet互联网 in general一般
666
1945871
2570
大体上讲,社交媒体和互联网
把不是他们世界观的文章置顶
32:40
was putting articles用品 towards the top最佳
that were not their worldview世界观.
667
1948465
3822
32:44
I think, again, that fed美联储 into the anger愤怒.
668
1952311
2942
我想,那是火上浇油
结果导致人们很生气:
32:47
It fed美联储 into the anger愤怒 of:
669
1955277
1535
32:48
"You're pushing推动 something
that's not what I believe."
670
1956836
2780
“你在推销那些
我不相信的东西。”
32:51
But social社会 media媒体 has obviously明显
changed everything,
671
1959640
2420
但是社交媒体显然
已经改变了这一切
32:54
and I think Trump王牌 is the example
of Twitter推特 changing改变 absolutely绝对 everything.
672
1962084
4377
我认为特朗普是推文
改变局势很好的例子
而从他的角度来看
32:58
And from his point of view视图,
673
1966485
2003
33:00
he's reaching到达 the American美国 people
without a filter过滤,
674
1968512
4297
他直面美国民众
他认为媒体是这样的
33:04
which哪一个 he believes相信 the media媒体 is.
675
1972833
2715
33:09
CACA: Question from the audience听众.
676
1977365
2419
CA:观众提问
33:12
Destiny命运: Hi你好. I'm Destiny命运.
677
1980498
1825
Destiny:嗨!我是Destiny
33:14
I have a question regarding关于 political政治
correctness正确性, and I'm curious好奇:
678
1982347
4330
我有个关于政治正确的问题
我很好奇:
政治正确什么时候
成了沉默的代名词
33:18
When did political政治 correctness正确性
become成为 synonymous代名词 with silencing沉默,
679
1986701
4670
33:23
versus a way that we speak说话
about other people
680
1991395
5115
而不是当我们论及其他人的时候
33:28
to show显示 them respect尊重
and preserve保留 their dignity尊严?
681
1996534
3139
很客气也很尊重对方?
33:31
GCGC: Well, I think the conservative保守 media媒体
really pounded捣烂 this issue问题
682
1999697
3388
GC:我认为保守媒体
有点把这个问题讲烂了
在过去十年里
33:35
for the last 10 years年份.
683
2003109
1864
33:36
I think that they really, really
spent花费 a lot of time
684
2004997
3361
我认为他们真地
花费了很多时间
33:40
talking about political政治 correctness正确性,
685
2008382
1806
谈论政治正确性
以及人们应该如何
有能力表达自己的想法
33:42
and how people should have
the ability能力 to say what they think.
686
2010212
3403
特朗普变得如此受欢迎的
另一个原因:
33:45
Another另一个 reason原因 why Trump王牌
became成为 so popular流行:
687
2013639
2170
33:47
because he says what he thinks.
688
2015833
1878
是因为他说他所想的
33:49
It also makes品牌 me think about the fact事实
689
2017735
4632
这也让我想起了
33:55
that I do believe there are a lot
of people in America美国
690
2023756
3035
我的确相信有很多美国人
33:58
who agree同意 with Steve史蒂夫 Bannon班农,
691
2026815
3892
认同史蒂夫·班农
但他们从来不会公开说
34:02
but they would never say it publicly公然,
692
2030731
1939
所以投票选特朗普
给了他们一次机会
34:04
and so voting表决 for Trump王牌
gave them the opportunity机会
693
2032694
3084
34:07
to agree同意 with it silently默默.
694
2035802
1604
来无声地支持
DB:关于移民问题
是个合法的观点
34:10
DBD B: On the issue问题 of immigration移民,
it's a legitimate合法 point of view视图
695
2038816
4964
我们国家有太多移民
34:15
that we have too many许多 immigrants移民
in the country国家,
696
2043804
2427
34:18
that it's economically经济 costly昂贵.
697
2046255
1466
那可是相当烧钱
34:19
CACA: That we have too many许多 --
698
2047745
1356
CA:我们有太多...
34:21
DBD B: Immigrants移民 in the country国家,
especially特别 from Britain英国.
699
2049125
2609
DB:移民在国内
尤其是来自英国的
(笑声)
34:23
(Laughter笑声)
700
2051758
1174
34:24
GCGC: I kind of like the British英国的 accent口音, OK?
701
2052956
2750
GC:我好像有点英国口音,是吧?
CA:我很抱歉。对不起,美国
34:27
CACA: I apologize道歉. America美国, I am sorry.
702
2055730
2347
34:30
(Laughter笑声)
703
2058101
1655
(笑声)
我立马就走
34:31
I'll go now.
704
2059780
1717
34:33
DBD B: But it became成为
sort分类 of impermissible不允许 to say that,
705
2061521
5924
DB:但是,这成了
个谈话的禁忌
34:39
because it was a sign标志 that somehow不知何故
you must必须 be a bigot独断论者 of some sort分类.
706
2067469
3445
因为某种程度上
你得是某个死硬派
34:42
So the political政治 correctness正确性
was not only cracking开裂 down on speech言语
707
2070938
3951
所以政治正确
不只打击言论
我们都会找到
完全冒犯性的
34:46
that we would all find
completely全然 offensive进攻,
708
2074913
2223
34:49
it was cracking开裂 down on some speech言语
that was legitimate合法,
709
2077160
2782
打击一些合法的言论
34:51
and then it was turning车削 speech言语
and thought into action行动
710
2079966
4548
把原本脑子里的想法
落实到行动上
34:56
and treating治疗 it as a crime犯罪,
711
2084538
2060
视其为犯罪
34:58
and people getting得到 fired解雇
and people thrown抛出 out of schools学校,
712
2086622
2920
人们被解雇
人们被撵出学校
这里有书面的言论守则
35:01
and there were speech言语 codes代码 written书面.
713
2089566
1742
现在这些五花八门的团队
35:03
Now there are these diversity多样 teams球队,
714
2091332
1794
在那里如果你说一些
总会有人觉得被冒犯的东西
35:05
where if you say something
that somebody finds认定 offensive进攻,
715
2093150
2680
35:07
like, "Smoking抽烟 is really dangerous危险,"
you can say "You're insulting侮辱 my group,"
716
2095854
3696
就像“吸烟真的很危险”,
你可以说“你在诋毁我们团队”
宿管员会敲开你的房门
35:11
and the team球队 from the administration行政
will come down into your dorm宿舍 room房间
717
2099574
3538
35:15
and put thought police警察 upon you.
718
2103136
2541
充当国安给你做思想工作
35:17
And so there has been a genuine真正 narrowing变窄
of what is permissible可允许的 to say.
719
2105701
5189
所以能说的话真是少到可怜
35:22
And some of it is legitimate合法.
720
2110914
1868
有些还是合法的
35:24
There are certain某些 words that there
should be some social社会 sanction制裁 against反对,
721
2112806
5363
有些话应该
受到社会制裁
但是有些话被用来
巩固政治图谋
35:30
but some of it was used
to enforce执行 a political政治 agenda议程.
722
2118193
2974
35:33
CACA: So is that a project项目
723
2121191
1213
CA:那么那是不是个项目?
35:34
you would urge敦促 on liberals自由主义者,
if you like -- progressives进步 --
724
2122428
2980
如果你愿意你会敦促自由派,进步派
35:37
to rethink反思 the ground地面 rules规则
around political政治 correctness正确性
725
2125432
4917
就政治正确的基本规则
去重新思考
去接受更多一点的
有点不太舒服的语言
35:42
and accept接受 a little more
uncomfortable不舒服 language语言
726
2130373
5695
在特定的环境里?
35:48
in certain某些 circumstances情况?
727
2136092
2834
35:50
Can you see that being存在 solved解决了
728
2138950
1734
你看这有用吗?
35:52
to an extent程度 that others其他
won't惯于 be so offended生气?
729
2140708
4203
就某种程度上他人不会那么生气?
35:56
DBD B: I mean, most American美国 universities高校,
especially特别 elite原种 universities高校,
730
2144935
3324
DB:我想说大多数美国大学
特别是精英大学
绝大部分是左派
36:00
are overwhelmingly压倒性 on the left,
731
2148283
1533
36:01
and there's just an ease缓解 of temptation诱惑
732
2149840
1862
就那么潜移默化地
36:03
to use your overwhelming压倒 cultural文化 power功率
to try to enforce执行 some sort分类 of thought
733
2151726
4193
试图用压倒性的文化
去尝试巩固一些思想
那些你认为正确的思想
36:07
that you think is right
and correct正确 thought.
734
2155943
2289
所以,最好能来点自我怀疑
我们是在这么做吗?
36:10
So, be a little more self-suspicious自我怀疑
of, are we doing that?
735
2158256
3203
再来,我的母校芝加哥大学
36:13
And second第二, my university大学,
the University大学 of Chicago芝加哥,
736
2161483
3476
在这封发出去的信里说
我们将何处安身
36:16
sent发送 out this letter saying,
we will have no safe安全 spaces空间.
737
2164983
2730
36:19
There will be no critique批判
of micro-aggression微侵略.
738
2167737
2410
这里不会有
党同罚异的评论
36:22
If you get your feelings情怀 hurt伤害,
well, welcome欢迎 to the world世界 of education教育.
739
2170171
3461
如果你觉得很受伤
那很欢迎来到教育的世界
36:25
I do think that policy政策 --
740
2173656
1414
我的确认为那个政策
36:27
which哪一个 is being存在 embraced拥抱 by a lot
of people on the left, by the way --
741
2175094
3334
顺带提一下
有很多左派人士投诚
也算是对当下的纠偏吧
36:30
is just a corrective纠正的 to what's happened发生.
742
2178452
2166
36:32
CACA: So here's这里的 a question
from Karen卡伦 Holloway霍洛韦:
743
2180642
2109
CA:接下来是Karen Holloway的问题:
36:34
How do we foster培育 an American美国 culture文化
744
2182775
2330
我们该如何培育美国文化?
36:37
that's forward-looking前瞻, like Hamilton汉密尔顿,
745
2185129
2524
像哈密尔顿一样有前瞻性
36:39
that expects预计 and deals交易 with change更改,
746
2187677
2528
满怀期待并拥抱变革
36:42
rather than wanting希望 to have everything
go back to some fictional虚构 past过去?
747
2190229
3684
而不是幻想让一切都
倒退到虚构的旧社会?
那不是个容易的问题,是吧?
36:47
That's an easy简单 question, right?
748
2195104
1578
GC:那么,我依然相信美国梦
36:48
GCGC: Well, I'm still a believer信徒
in the American美国 dream梦想,
749
2196706
2591
36:51
and I think what we can teach
our children孩子 is the basics基本,
750
2199321
3434
而且我认为我们能教
孩子们的是基本
36:54
which哪一个 is that hard work
751
2202779
3397
就是辛勤工作
36:58
and believing相信 in yourself你自己
752
2206200
2510
以及相信你自己
37:01
in America美国, you can achieve实现
whatever随你 you want.
753
2209597
2220
在美国,你可以做到
你想做的
我就是这么被教导长大的
37:03
I was told that every一切 single day.
754
2211841
1661
37:05
When I got in the real真实 world世界, I was like,
wow, that's maybe not always so true真正.
755
2213526
4031
当我步入社会,我会说
喔,也许这不总是真的
37:09
But I still believe in that.
756
2217581
1671
但我还是仍然相信
37:11
Maybe I'm being存在 too optimistic乐观.
757
2219276
1573
可能我太乐观了
37:12
So I still look towards the future未来
for that to continue继续.
758
2220873
3711
我仍然期待未来
那个可以延续
DB:我觉得你太乐观了
37:17
DBD B: I think you're being存在 too optimistic乐观.
759
2225108
2162
GC:是吗?
37:19
GCGC: You do?
760
2227294
1158
DB:目前美国年轻人的薪水
超过其父母的比例
37:20
DBD B: The odds可能性 of an American美国 young年轻 person
exceeding超额 their parents'父母' salary薪水 --
761
2228476
4032
37:24
a generation ago, like 86 percent百分 did it.
762
2232532
2537
一代人之前,大概有86%
37:27
Now 51 percent百分 do it.
763
2235093
1759
现在是51%
37:28
There's just been a problem问题
in social社会 mobility流动性 in the country国家.
764
2236876
3268
这只是国内
社会流动性的问题
37:32
CACA: You've written书面 that this entire整个
century世纪 has basically基本上 been a disaster灾害,
765
2240168
4829
CA:你写过这整个世纪
基本上是场灾难
37:37
that the age年龄 of sunny晴朗 growth发展 is over
and we're in deep trouble麻烦.
766
2245021
5633
见风就长的年代已成过去
现在我们深陷困境
DB:是的,实际上我们调整
后的平均人口
37:42
DBD B: Yeah, I mean, we averaged平均,
in real真实 terms条款, population-adjusted群体调整,
767
2250678
4459
37:47
two or three percent百分 growth发展 for 50 years年份,
768
2255161
2120
50年来有2-3%增长
现在增长不到1%
37:49
and now we've我们已经 had less
than one percent百分 growth发展.
769
2257305
2544
所以这里有一些事情出现
37:51
And so there's something seeping渗出 out.
770
2259873
2499
37:54
And so if I'm going to tell people
that they should take risks风险,
771
2262396
4573
所以如果我要对人们说
你们应该冒风险
我们面临的问题之一
就是流动性急剧下降
37:58
one of the things we're seeing眼看
is a rapid快速 decline下降 in mobility流动性,
772
2266993
3047
在跨州界的人数上
38:02
the number of people who are moving移动
across横过 state lines线,
773
2270064
3369
38:05
and that's especially特别 true真正
among其中 millennials千禧.
774
2273457
3015
在千禧一代上尤为如此
年轻人越来越不动
38:08
It's young年轻 people that are moving移动 less.
775
2276496
1890
那么我们如何给予人们可以冒风险
的安全呢?
38:10
So how do we give people the security安全
from which哪一个 they can take risk风险?
776
2278410
3901
38:14
And I'm a big believer信徒 in attachment附件
theory理论 of raising提高 children孩子,
777
2282335
3582
而且,我是在培育孩子上依附理论
的相信者
38:17
and attachment附件 theory理论
is based基于 on the motto座右铭
778
2285941
2584
依附理论来自格言:
生活的本质是基于安全的大胆冒险
38:20
that all of life is a series系列
of daring大胆 adventures冒险 from a secure安全 base基础.
779
2288549
4422
38:25
Have you parents父母 given特定 you a secure安全 base基础?
780
2293579
2373
父母有给你安定的后盾吗?
38:27
And as a society社会,
we do not have a secure安全 base基础,
781
2295976
2373
作为一个社会
我们没有一个安全的基础
我们不会干劲十足地
去冒“汉米尔顿式”的险
38:30
and we won't惯于 get to that "Hamilton汉密尔顿,"
risk-taking冒险, energetic有活力 ethos社会思潮
782
2298373
4388
38:34
until直到 we can supply供应 a secure安全 base基础.
783
2302785
2457
直到我们能给得起
一个安全的基础
CA:所以我好奇是否
这里有根据
38:37
CACA: So I wonder奇迹 whether是否
there's ground地面 here
784
2305266
3399
38:40
to create创建 almost几乎 like a shared共享 agenda议程,
a bridging桥接 conversation会话,
785
2308689
4757
去创建一个分享的议程
一个对接的对话
38:45
on the one hand recognizing认识
that there is this really deep problem问题
786
2313470
5346
一方面,要认识到
这是个很深层次的问题
38:50
that the system系统,
the economic经济 system系统 that we built内置,
787
2318840
2505
我们建造的的经济体制
当下似乎是熄火了
38:53
seems似乎 to be misfiring哑火 right now.
788
2321369
2920
38:57
Second第二, that maybe, if you're right
that it's not all about immigrants移民,
789
2325244
5370
第二,也许你是对的
这不全关乎移民
可能更多的是科技
39:02
it's probably大概 more about technology技术,
790
2330638
1958
39:04
if you could win赢得 that argument论据,
791
2332620
2024
如果你能讲通这观点
在我看来,在最最争议的
两个阵营中不再显著
39:06
that de-emphasizes去强调 what seems似乎 to me
the single most divisive分裂 territory领土
792
2334668
5169
围绕外人的身份
在特朗普支持者和其他人之间
39:11
between之间 Trump王牌 supporters支持者 and others其他,
which哪一个 is around the role角色 of the other.
793
2339861
4054
39:15
It's very offensive进攻 to people on the left
to have the other demonized妖魔化
794
2343939
4050
把其他人妖魔化
对于左派的人是很冒犯的
达到似乎被妖魔化的程度
39:20
to the extent程度 that the other
seems似乎 to be demonized妖魔化.
795
2348013
2705
39:22
That feels感觉 deeply immoral不道德,
796
2350742
2578
这感觉很不道德
39:25
and maybe people on the left
could agree同意, as you said,
797
2353344
2870
如你所说,左派的可能会同意
39:28
that immigration移民
may可能 have happened发生 too fast快速,
798
2356238
2861
移民可能发生得太快了
而且要有个限度
远超人类社会的挣扎
39:31
and there is a limit限制 beyond which哪一个
human人的 societies社会 struggle斗争,
799
2359123
4577
可是问题变得不那么重要了
39:35
but nonetheless尽管如此, this whole整个 problem问题
becomes de-emphasized去加重
800
2363724
4089
39:39
if automation自动化 is the key issue问题,
801
2367837
2135
如果自动化是关键问题
39:41
and then we try to work together一起
on recognizing认识 that it's real真实,
802
2369996
2954
然后我们要认识到
这次是来真的而通力合作
39:44
recognizing认识 that the problem问题
probably大概 wasn't properly正确 addressed解决
803
2372974
3129
意识到问题没有被
正确地解决
所看见或所听见
39:48
or seen看到 or heard听说,
804
2376127
1346
39:49
and try to figure数字 out
how to rebuild重建 communities社区
805
2377497
3309
然后试图为
重建社区找出路
39:52
using运用, well, using运用 what?
806
2380830
2008
那要用什么呢?
39:54
That seems似乎 to me to become成为
the fertile conversation会话 of the future未来:
807
2382862
4036
那对我来说似乎变成
未来谈话的养分
我们如何在这个现今时代
重建社区
39:58
How do we rebuild重建 communities社区
in this modern现代 age年龄,
808
2386922
3120
随着科技的推进
40:02
with technology技术 doing what it's doing,
809
2390066
2332
重塑这远大前程?
40:04
and reimagine重新构想 this bright future未来?
810
2392422
2195
GC:这就是我回归乐观的原因
40:06
GCGC: That's why I go back to optimism乐观.
811
2394641
2103
40:08
I'm not being存在 ... it's not like
I'm not looking at the facts事实,
812
2396768
3875
我不是...这不是说我没看事实
我们从何处来又要到哪里去
40:12
where we've我们已经 come or where we've我们已经 come from.
813
2400667
2438
40:15
But for gosh天哪 sakes缘故, if we don't look
at it from an optimistic乐观 point of view视图 --
814
2403129
3987
可是天呐,如果我们不乐观的话
我现在就不打算这样
40:19
I'm refusing拒不 to do that just yet然而.
815
2407140
1704
我不会跟我12岁和13岁的
两孩子说:“看,世界很不明朗。”
40:20
I'm not raising提高 my 12- and 13-year-old-岁
to say, "Look, the world世界 is dim暗淡."
816
2408868
4214
40:25
CACA; We're going to have
one more question from the room房间 here.
817
2413106
2996
CA:现场我们再来一个问题
提问者:嗨,你好!不好意思
40:28
Questioner发问者: Hi你好. Hello你好. Sorry.
818
2416126
3666
你们都提到了
基础设施和俄罗斯
40:31
You both mentioned提到
the infrastructure基础设施 plan计划 and Russia俄国
819
2419816
3504
还有些不是老牌共和党
优先考虑的事情
40:35
and some other things that wouldn't不会 be
traditional传统 Republican共和党人 priorities优先.
820
2423344
5365
你们怎么认为:
共和党人何时会积极行动
40:40
What do you think, or when,
will Republicans共和党人 be motivated动机
821
2428733
6569
40:47
to take a stand against反对 TrumpismTrumpism?
822
2435326
3985
表明反特朗普主义立场?
40:51
GCGC: After last night, not for a while.
823
2439739
2923
GC:昨晚之后,不会很久
我认为他昨晚变了很多
40:54
He changed a lot last night, I believe.
824
2442686
2350
40:57
DBD B: His popularity声望 among其中 Republicans共和党人 --
he's got 85 percent百分 approval赞同,
825
2445060
3651
DB:他在共和党人中的
受欢迎度有85%
41:00
which哪一个 is higher更高 than Reagan里根
had at this time,
826
2448735
2220
这比里根当年还高
这是因为社会已经
变得更加两极化
41:02
and that's because society社会
has just gotten得到 more polarized偏振.
827
2450979
2916
41:05
So people follow跟随 the party派对
much more than they used to.
828
2453919
2649
人们比以往更加跟随党派
41:08
So if you're waiting等候 for Paul保罗 Ryan瑞安
and the Republicans共和党人 in Congress国会
829
2456592
3156
所以,如果你在等保尔·瑞恩
和国会的共和党人
走开
41:11
to flake薄片 away,
830
2459772
1159
41:12
it's going to take a little while.
831
2460955
1649
这是要花点时间的
GC:但也因为他们都担心连任
41:14
GCGC: But also because they're all
concerned关心 about reelection蝉联,
832
2462628
3482
特朗普有如此多的权力去时人们
要么支持你
41:18
and Trump王牌 has so much power功率
with getting得到 people either for you
833
2466134
3695
要么反对你
41:21
or against反对 you,
834
2469853
1441
41:23
and so, they're vacillating优柔寡断
every一切 day, probably大概:
835
2471318
2338
所以他们可能每天都在纠结
41:25
"Well, should I go against反对
or should I not?"
836
2473680
2116
“我是要反对还是不呢?”
但昨晚,他最终听起来很有总统范
41:27
But last night, where he finally最后
sounded满面 presidential总统,
837
2475820
3499
我想大多数共和党人今天都松了口气
41:31
I think most Republicans共和党人 are breathing呼吸
a sigh of relief浮雕 today今天.
838
2479343
3732
DB:主意改得好快
41:35
DBD B: The half-life半衰期 of that is short.
839
2483099
2290
GC:是的,我本来要说
知道推特再次发生
41:37
GCGC: Right -- I was just going to say,
until直到 Twitter推特 happens发生 again.
840
2485413
3255
CA:好的,我打算给
所有人一次机会
41:40
CACA: OK, I want to give
each of you the chance机会
841
2488692
3068
想象下你们正在和--
我不知道
41:43
to imagine想像 you're speaking请讲
to -- I don't know --
842
2491784
3827
41:47
the people online线上 who are watching观看 this,
843
2495635
1951
和那些正在收看的人
可能是特朗普的支持者
41:49
who may可能 be Trump王牌 supporters支持者,
844
2497610
1546
可能是来自个左派
来自中部某个地方
41:51
who may可能 be on the left,
somewhere某处 in the middle中间.
845
2499180
3052
41:54
How would you advise劝告 them to bridge
or to relate涉及 to other people?
846
2502829
6795
如何与其他人对接或是产生联系
你会怎么建议?
42:01
Can you share分享 any final最后 wisdom智慧 on this?
847
2509648
4149
你能分享一下这个睿智吗?
42:05
Or if you think that they shouldn't不能,
tell them that as well.
848
2513821
3774
或者你认为他们不应该这么做
也不妨说说看
42:09
GCGC: I would just start开始 by saying
849
2517619
1636
GC:我会这么说
42:11
that I really think any change更改
and coming未来 together一起 starts启动 from the top最佳,
850
2519279
4311
我真地认为任何改变和融合
从一开就始于顶层
42:15
just like any other organization组织.
851
2523614
1938
就像任何其它组织
42:18
And I would love if, somehow不知何故,
852
2526714
2878
不知何故,我会很高兴
42:21
Trump王牌 supporters支持者 or people on the left
could encourage鼓励 their leaders领导者
853
2529616
4563
不管是特朗普的支持者或者
左派都可以鼓励他们的领导人
从上层展现出同情心
42:26
to show显示 that compassion同情 from the top最佳,
854
2534203
2552
42:28
because imagine想像 the change更改
that we could have
855
2536779
3674
因为想象下我们已经
拥有的改变
42:32
if Donald唐纳德 Trump王牌 tweeted啾啾 out today今天,
856
2540477
2128
要是今天唐纳德•特朗普
发推文
向他所有的支持者
42:34
to all of his supporters支持者,
857
2542629
1661
42:36
"Let's not be vile恶劣 anymore to each other.
858
2544314
2660
“让我们不再互相使坏
42:38
Let's have more understanding理解.
859
2546998
1674
让我们了解彼此
作为一个领导者
我将更具包容性
42:40
As a leader领导, I'm going
to be more inclusive包括的
860
2548696
2830
对所有美国人民。”
42:43
to all of the people of America美国."
861
2551550
1935
42:46
To me, it starts启动 at the top最佳.
862
2554392
2093
对我来说,它就是从上头开始
他真要去做吗?我不知道
42:48
Is he going to do that? I have no idea理念.
863
2556509
3377
但我认为一切都从上层开始
42:51
But I think that everything
starts启动 from the top最佳,
864
2559910
2700
而且他所拥有的权力
42:54
and the power功率 that he has
865
2562634
1729
42:56
in encouraging鼓舞人心的 his supporters支持者
866
2564387
2989
可以去鼓励他的支持者
42:59
to have an understanding理解 of where
people are coming未来 from on the other side.
867
2567400
3813
去了解来自另一阵营的人民
CA:大卫。 DB:是的,我想我会说
43:04
CACA: David大卫. DBD B: Yeah, I guess猜测 I would say
868
2572497
2499
我认为我们不能教对方有礼貌
43:07
I don't think we can teach
each other to be civil国内,
869
2575020
2742
43:09
and give us sermons布道 on civility礼貌.
870
2577786
1743
并对我们很客气
43:11
That's not going to do it.
871
2579553
1244
不是这回事
是本质,还有我们如何应对
43:12
It's substance物质 and how we act法案,
872
2580821
1684
唐纳德•特朗普好的一面
是他粉碎了界限
43:14
and the nice不错 thing about Donald唐纳德 Trump王牌
is he smashed被砸 our categories类别.
873
2582529
3619
43:18
All the categories类别 that we thought
we were thinking思维 in, they're obsolete过时的.
874
2586172
4122
我们以为我们所想的
全部分类,都已经过时了
在二十世纪这些是很了不起
但今天不好使了
43:22
They were great for the 20th century世纪.
They're not good for today今天.
875
2590318
3082
他有个关闭边界和贸易的议案
43:25
He's got an agenda议程 which哪一个 is about
closing关闭 borders国界 and closing关闭 trade贸易.
876
2593424
3231
我不认为这会生效
43:28
I just don't think it's going to work.
877
2596679
1825
我认为如果我们打算
重建社区,再造就业
43:30
I think if we want to rebuild重建
communities社区, recreate重建 jobs工作,
878
2598528
2821
我们需要另外的一套议案
43:33
we need a different不同 set of agenda议程
879
2601373
1654
摧毁我们现有部门
和当下的分类
43:35
that smashes摔破 through通过 all our current当前
divisions and our current当前 categories类别.
880
2603051
3571
43:38
For me, that agenda议程 is Reaganism里根主义
on macroeconomic宏观经济 policy政策,
881
2606646
3516
对我来说,这个议题是
宏观经济的里根主义政策
43:42
Sweden瑞典 on welfare福利 policy政策
882
2610186
2170
瑞典的福利政策
43:44
and cuts削减 across横过 right and left.
883
2612380
2202
跨越左右两派
我认为我们需要有个
生机勃勃的经济去创造增长
43:46
I think we have to have a dynamic动态
economy经济 that creates创建 growth发展.
884
2614606
2937
那就是里根的经济政策
43:49
That's the Reagan里根 on economic经济 policy政策.
885
2617567
1833
但人们得有安定的基础
43:51
But people have to have that secure安全 base基础.
886
2619424
1965
43:53
There have to be
nurse-family护士系列 partnerships伙伴关系;
887
2621413
2051
得有看护家庭伙伴
得普及学前教育
43:55
there has to be universal普遍 preschool幼儿;
888
2623488
1778
得有公立学校
43:57
there have to be charter宪章 schools学校;
889
2625290
1995
还得有包罗万象的大学课程
43:59
there have to be college学院 programs程式
with wraparound概括的 programs程式
890
2627309
2968
为了家长和社区
44:02
for parents父母 and communities社区.
891
2630301
1481
44:03
We need to help heal愈合 the crisis危机
of social社会 solidarity团结 in this country国家
892
2631806
4996
我们需要协助国家
从社会危机中恢复团结
抚慰家庭
44:08
and help heal愈合 families家庭,
893
2636826
1496
44:10
and government政府 just has to get
a lot more involved参与
894
2638346
2334
政府积极参与
就像自由主义者一样重建社区
44:12
in the way liberals自由主义者 like
to rebuild重建 communities社区.
895
2640704
3663
44:16
At the other hand, we have to have
an economy经济 that's free自由 and open打开
896
2644391
3222
另一方面,我们得有自由和开放的经济
保守派过去喜欢的那种方式
44:19
the way conservatives保守派 used to like.
897
2647637
1926
所以返璞归正是如何打破
44:21
And so getting得到 the substance物质 right
is how you smash粉碎 through通过
898
2649587
3058
派别的身份认同
44:24
the partisan党派 identities身份,
899
2652669
1392
因为这是最终导致
我们两极分化的本质
44:26
because the substance物质 is what
ultimately最终 shapes形状 our polarization极化.
900
2654085
3303
CA:非常感谢大伟和格雷琴
44:30
CACA: David大卫 and Gretchen格雷琴, thank you so much
901
2658752
1969
非常精彩的对话
44:32
for an absolutely绝对
fascinating迷人 conversation会话.
902
2660745
2135
谢谢。真地很有意思
44:34
Thank you. That was really,
really interesting有趣.
903
2662904
3137
44:38
(Applause掌声)
904
2666065
3323
(掌声)
嘿,让我们保持对话继续
44:41
Hey, let's keep the conversation会话 going.
905
2669412
4268
我们也将不断尝试并弄清楚
44:45
We're continuing继续 to try and figure数字 out
906
2673704
2117
44:47
whether是否 we can add something here,
907
2675845
1636
是否我们可以加点内容
保持话题到脸书上
44:49
so keep the conversation会话
going on FacebookFacebook的.
908
2677505
2041
欢迎向我们提供你的想法
不管你来自哪个政治领域
44:51
Give us your thoughts思念 from whatever随你 part部分
of the political政治 spectrum光谱 you're on,
909
2679570
3690
或者你身处何处
44:55
and actually其实, wherever哪里
in the world世界 you are.
910
2683284
2061
44:57
This is not just about America美国.
It's about the world世界, too.
911
2685369
2758
这不只是美国
这还关乎全世界
45:01
But we're not going
to end结束 today今天 without music音乐,
912
2689476
2334
今天不来点音乐
怎么能结束呢
45:03
because if we put music音乐
in every一切 political政治 conversation会话,
913
2691834
4792
如果我们在每个政治
对话中都放点音乐
45:08
the world世界 would be
completely全然 different不同, frankly坦率地说.
914
2696650
2438
坦白说
世界会完全不一样
45:11
It just would.
915
2699112
1778
一定会的
(掌声)
45:12
(Applause掌声)
916
2700914
2607
45:15
Up in Harlem哈林, this extraordinary非凡 woman女人,
917
2703545
2090
在哈林区,有这样一位了不起的女人
45:17
VyVY HigginsenHigginsen, who's谁是 actually其实 right here --
918
2705659
2425
维恩·喜金丝,她就在现场
请给个特写镜头
45:20
let's get a shot射击 of her.
919
2708108
1241
(掌声)
45:21
(Applause掌声)
920
2709373
3369
她创建了一个聚合青少年的节目
45:24
She created创建 this program程序
that brings带来 teens青少年 together一起,
921
2712766
4283
45:29
teaches them the joy喜悦
and the impact碰撞 of gospel福音 music音乐,
922
2717073
3444
教给他们福音的快乐和音乐感染
目前有数百位青少年参加过这个节目
45:32
and hundreds数以百计 of teens青少年 have gone走了
through通过 this program程序.
923
2720541
3979
45:36
It's transformative变革 for them.
924
2724544
1519
对他们来说是变革
45:38
The music音乐 they made制作, as you already已经 heard听说,
925
2726087
2188
他们创作的,现场在播的音乐
45:40
is extraordinary非凡,
926
2728299
1306
非常了不起
45:41
and I can't think of a better way
of ending结尾 this TEDTED Dialogue对话
927
2729629
4374
我再找不到更好的方式
来结束今天TED对话
45:46
than welcoming欢迎 VyVY Higginsen'sHigginsen的
Gospel福音 Choir唱诗班 from Harlem哈林.
928
2734027
3807
下面欢迎来自哈林区的
维恩·喜金丝福音合唱团
谢谢
45:49
Thank you.
929
2737858
1177
45:51
(Applause掌声)
930
2739059
3158
(掌声)
46:10
(Singing唱歌) Choir唱诗班: O beautiful美丽
for spacious宽敞 skies天空
931
2758888
4634
(歌声)合唱团:哦,广袤的天多美
46:15
For amber琥珀色 waves波浪 of grain粮食
932
2763546
4932
饱硕的麦浪金黄
46:20
For purple紫色 mountain majesties陛下
933
2768502
4724
庄严的山峦巍峨
在这丰收的平原上
46:25
Above以上 the fruited结实 plain
934
2773250
4706
美国!
46:29
America美国!
935
2777980
2171
46:34
America美国!
936
2782649
2624
美国!
美国!
46:39
America美国!
937
2787182
2206
46:42
America美国!
938
2790546
3260
美国!
46:48
God shed his grace恩典 on thee
939
2796318
4652
上帝保佑你
兄弟般的情谊为你
46:52
And crown王冠 thy你的 good with brotherhood手足情谊
940
2800994
4415
在亮闪闪的海面上
46:57
From sea to shining闪亮的 sea
941
2805433
6987
在亮闪闪的海面上
47:11
From sea to shining闪亮的 sea
942
2819648
6997
(掌声)
47:25
(Applause掌声)
943
2833417
6830
Translated by Queenie Lee
Reviewed by Chen Zou

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ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Gretchen Carlson - TV journalist, women's empowerment advocate
Gretchen Carlson is a tireless advocate for workplace equality and women's empowerment.

Why you should listen

Named one of TIME's 100 Most Influential People in the World for 2017, Gretchen Carlson is one of the nation's most highly acclaimed journalists and a warrior for women. In 2016, Carlson became the face of sexual harassment in the workplace after her lawsuit against Fox News Chairman and CEO Roger Ailes paved the way for thousands of other women facing harassment to tell their stories. Carlson's advocacy put her on the cover of TIME, and her new book, Be Fierce: Stop Harassment and Take Your Power Back, joined the New York Times best-seller list the week it was published. She became a columnist for TIME's online "Motto" newsletter in 2017, focusing on gender and empowerment issues.

Carlson's ongoing work on behalf of women includes advocating for arbitration reform on Capitol Hill; in 2018, she plans to testify before Congress about workplace inequality and forced arbitration clauses in employment contracts. Carlson also created the Gift of Courage Fund and the Gretchen Carlson Leadership Initiative to support empowerment, advocacy and anti-harassment programs for girls and underserved women.

Carlson hosted "The Real Story" on Fox News for three years; co-hosted "Fox and Friends" for seven years; and in her first book, Getting Real, became a national best-seller. She co-hosted "The Saturday Early Show" for CBS in 2000 and served as a CBS News correspondent covering stories including Geneoa's G-8 Summit, Timothy McVeigh’s execution, 9/11 from the World Trade Center and the Bush-Gore election. She started her reporting career in Richmond, Virginia, then served as an anchor and reporter in Cincinnati, Cleveland and Dallas, where she produced and reported a 30-part series on domestic violence that won several national awards.

An honors graduate of Stanford University, Carlson was valedictorian of her high school class and studied at Oxford University in England. A child prodigy on the violin, she performed as a soloist with the Minnesota Symphony Orchestra at age 13, and in 1989, became the first classical violinist to win the Miss America crown.

Ever grateful for the opportunities provided to her and imbued with a "never give up" attitude, Carlson has mentored dozens of young women throughout her career. She serves as a national trustee for the March of Dimes, a member of the board of directors for the Catherine Violet Hubbard Animal Sanctuary in Newtown, Connecticut and a trustee of Greenwich Academy, an all-girls preparatory day school in Greenwich, Connecticut. Carlson is married to sports agent Casey Close and mom to their two children.

More profile about the speaker
Gretchen Carlson | Speaker | TED.com
Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir - Gospel ensemble
Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir of Harlem is an influential source of education and self-development for young people.

Why you should listen

Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir of Harlem is a celebrated group of performers elevated from the Mama Foundation for the Arts' Music School of Gospel, Jazz and R&B. The Foundation, founded by the writer/producer of Mama, I Want to Sing!, is a highly respected and influential source of education and self-development for young people. The award-winning, nationally recognized program offers performance choirs small, medium, and large and has been seen accompanying many of today's pop icons including Ariana Grande, Chance the Rapper, Pharrell Williams, Alessia Cara and Madonna.

In addition to various performances and collaborations throughout New York City, the choir enjoys weekly performances in Harlem. They can be seen every Sunday headlining Ginny Supper Club's Gospel Brunch at Marcus Samuelson's acclaimed restaurant, Red Rooster, which is ranked one of the top five gospel brunches in the nation. The choir will begin Saturday performances in The Harlem Gospel Concert Series beginning April 15th at The Dempsey Theater in Harlem.

More profile about the speaker
Vy Higginsen's Gospel Choir | Speaker | TED.com
David Brooks - Op-ed columnist
Writer and thinker David Brooks has covered business, crime and politics over a long career in journalism.

Why you should listen

David Brooks became an Op-Ed columnist for The New York Times in September 2003. He is currently a commentator on "The PBS Newshour," NPR’s "All Things Considered" and NBC's "Meet the Press."

He is the author of Bobos in Paradise and The Social Animal. In April 2015, he released with his fourth book, The Road to Character, which was a #1 New York Times bestseller.

Brooks also teaches at Yale University, and is a member of the American Academy of Arts & Sciences.

Born on August 11, 1961 in Toronto, Canada, Brooks graduated a bachelor of history from the University of Chicago in 1983. He became a police reporter for the City News Bureau, a wire service owned jointly by the Chicago Tribune and Sun-Times.

He worked at The Washington Times and then The Wall Street Journal for nine years. His last post at the Journal was as Op-ed Editor. Prior to that, he was posted in Brussels, covering Russia, the Middle East, South Africa and European affairs. His first post at the Journal was as editor of the book review section, and he filled in as the Journal's movie critic.

He also served as a senior editor at The Weekly Standard for 9 years, as well as contributing editor for The Atlantic and Newsweek.

More profile about the speaker
David Brooks | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.

Why you should listen

Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.

Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.

Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.

Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.

This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.

He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.

In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.

Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.

More profile about the speaker
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com