ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Dan Barber - Chef
Dan Barber is a chef and a scholar -- relentlessly pursuing the stories and reasons behind the foods we grow and eat.

Why you should listen

Dan Barber is the chef at New York's Blue Hill restaurant, and Blue Hill at Stone Barns in Westchester, where he practices a kind of close-to-the-land cooking married to agriculture and stewardship of the earth. As described on Chez Pim: "Stone Barns is only 45 minutes from Manhattan, but it might as well be a whole different universe. A model of self-sufficiency and environmental responsibility, Stone Barns is a working farm, ranch, and a three-Michelin-star-worthy restaurant." It's a vision of a new kind of food chain.

Barber's philosophy of food focuses on pleasure and thoughtful conservation -- on knowing where the food on your plate comes from and the unseen forces that drive what we eat. He's written on US agricultural policies, asking for a new vision that does not throw the food chain out of balance by subsidizing certain crops at the expense of more appropriate ones.

In 2009, Barber received the James Beard award for America's Outstanding Chef, and was named one of the world's most influential people in Time’s annual "Time 100" list. In 2014 he published The Third Plate: Field Notes on the Future of Food.

More profile about the speaker
Dan Barber | Speaker | TED.com
TED2010

Dan Barber: How I fell in love with a fish

丹•巴伯尔(Dan Barber):我如何爱上一条鱼。

Filmed:
2,315,470 views

厨师丹•巴伯尔指出很多厨师正在左右为难的问题:如何把鱼类留在菜单上。通过严谨的调查和幽默的方式,巴伯尔讲述了他寻求一条值得喜爱的“可持续性鱼”的过程,以及自从发现了一种在西班牙用非传统的方式养殖出来的极其美味的鱼之后,他所享受到的美食家蜜月。
- Chef
Dan Barber is a chef and a scholar -- relentlessly pursuing the stories and reasons behind the foods we grow and eat. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:16
So, I've known已知 a lot of fish in my life.
0
1000
4000
我一生中接触过很多鱼。
00:20
I've loved喜爱 only two.
1
5000
3000
只有两种是我的最爱。
00:23
That first one,
2
8000
2000
第一种,
00:25
it was more like a passionate多情 affair事务.
3
10000
3000
是源于激情。
00:28
It was a beautiful美丽 fish:
4
13000
2000
它是一条美丽的鱼,
00:30
flavorful美味, textured纹理, meaty肉香,
5
15000
3000
美味,纹理细腻,肉质丰富,
00:33
a bestseller畅销书 on the menu菜单.
6
18000
2000
是菜单上最受欢迎的鱼。
00:35
What a fish.
7
20000
2000
多么美的鱼啊!
00:37
(Laughter笑声)
8
22000
3000
(笑声)
00:40
Even better,
9
25000
2000
更好的是,
00:42
it was farm-raised人工养殖 to the supposed应该 highest最高 standards标准
10
27000
3000
它是依照最高标准养殖的,
00:45
of sustainability可持续性.
11
30000
3000
目的是保持它的可持续性的。
00:48
So you could feel good about selling销售 it.
12
33000
3000
而卖他的人也会感到心安理得。
00:52
I was in a relationship关系 with this beauty美女
13
37000
2000
我曾经沉醉于这美丽的关系中,
00:54
for several一些 months个月.
14
39000
2000
时间大概延续了几个月。
00:58
One day, the head of the company公司 called
15
43000
2000
有一天,这个公司的高层打电话给我
01:00
and asked if I'd speak说话 at an event事件
16
45000
2000
邀请我参加一个活动
01:02
about the farm's农场 sustainability可持续性.
17
47000
2000
并就渔业的可持续性发展发表演说。
01:04
"Absolutely绝对," I said.
18
49000
2000
我说,“当然可以”。
01:06
Here was a company公司 trying to solve解决
19
51000
3000
这个公司正是要试图解决一个
01:09
what's become成为 this unimaginable不可思议 problem问题 for us chefs厨师:
20
54000
3000
对于我们厨师来说正在变得不可想象的问题。
01:13
How do we keep fish on our menus菜单?
21
58000
3000
“我们如何把鱼类留在菜单上?”
01:17
For the past过去 50 years年份,
22
62000
3000
在过去的50年中,
01:20
we've我们已经 been fishing钓鱼 the seas海域
23
65000
2000
我们从各个海洋中捕鱼
01:22
like we clear-cut明确 forests森林.
24
67000
3000
就像是砍伐树木。
01:25
It's hard to overstate夸大 the destruction毁坏.
25
70000
3000
绝不是夸大它的破坏性。
01:30
Ninety九十 percent百分 of large fish, the ones那些 we love --
26
75000
3000
90%的大型鱼类,那些我们喜爱的种类,
01:33
the tunas金枪鱼, the halibuts, the salmons鲑鱼, swordfish旗鱼 --
27
78000
3000
金枪鱼,大比目鱼,三鲑鱼,剑鱼,
01:36
they've他们已经 collapsed倒塌.
28
81000
2000
他们都要灭绝了。
01:38
There's almost几乎 nothing left.
29
83000
3000
几乎没有多少剩下了。
01:41
So, for better or for worse更差,
30
86000
3000
所以,不管是好是坏,
01:44
aquaculture水产养殖, fish farming农业, is going to be a part部分 of our future未来.
31
89000
3000
水产养殖业,养鱼业,都会成为我们未来的一部分。
01:47
A lot of arguments参数 against反对 it:
32
92000
2000
有很多针对这个行业的言论。
01:49
Fish farms农场 pollute污染 -- most of them do anyway无论如何 --
33
94000
3000
其实它们大部分都是关于养鱼业会污染环境,
01:52
and they're inefficient低效. Take tuna金枪鱼,
34
97000
2000
而且效率很低,比如说金枪鱼。
01:54
a major重大的 drawback退税.
35
99000
2000
最大的弊病就是,
01:56
It's got a feed饲料 conversion转变 ratio
36
101000
2000
养殖金枪鱼的饲料转换率是
01:58
of 15 to one.
37
103000
2000
15比1。
02:00
That means手段 it takes fifteen十五 pounds英镑 of wild野生 fish
38
105000
2000
这个意思是说,每生产1磅金枪鱼肉
02:02
to get you one pound of farm农场 tuna金枪鱼.
39
107000
3000
要耗费15磅用其他野生鱼类做的饲料。
02:06
Not very sustainable可持续发展.
40
111000
2000
这可不是很具有可持续发展性。
02:08
It doesn't taste味道 very good either.
41
113000
3000
而且也不好吃。
02:11
So here, finally最后,
42
116000
2000
最后,
02:13
was a company公司 trying to do it right.
43
118000
2000
这个公司想做些正确事情。
02:15
I wanted to support支持 them.
44
120000
2000
我也想支持他们。
02:18
The day before the event事件,
45
123000
2000
在那次活动的前一天,
02:20
I called the head of P.R. for the company公司.
46
125000
3000
我联系了公司的公关部门头头。
02:23
Let's call him Don.
47
128000
3000
就让我们暂且称呼他为“唐阁下”。
02:27
"Don," I said, "just to get the facts事实 straight直行, you guys are famous著名
48
132000
3000
我说:“唐阁下, 据我说知,事实是这样的,你们在海洋捕鱼业十分出名,
02:30
for farming农业 so far out to sea, you don't pollute污染."
49
135000
3000
而且你们不会产生污染。”
02:33
"That's right," he said. "We're so far out,
50
138000
3000
他回应: “你说的对。我们作业的地点很远,
02:36
the waste浪费 from our fish gets得到 distributed分散式,
51
141000
3000
我们捕鱼所产生的污染物都被稀释掉了,
02:39
not concentrated集中."
52
144000
2000
不会集中残留在一个地方。”
02:41
And then he added添加,
53
146000
2000
然后他补充到,
02:43
"We're basically基本上 a world世界 unto ourselves我们自己.
54
148000
3000
“我们算得上是独树一帜。
02:47
That feed饲料 conversion转变 ratio? 2.5 to one," he said.
55
152000
3000
饲料转换率?2.5比1,” 他说。
02:50
"Best最好 in the business商业."
56
155000
2000
“行业中最好的。”
02:52
2.5 to one, great.
57
157000
2000
2.5比1,很好。
02:54
"2.5 what? What are you feeding馈送?"
58
159000
2000
“什么2.5比1?你们在喂什么?”
02:56
"Sustainable可持续发展 proteins蛋白质," he said.
59
161000
3000
他回答道:“可持续性蛋白质”。
02:59
"Great," I said. Got off the phone电话.
60
164000
3000
我说:“很好”。然后挂了电话。
03:02
And that night, I was lying说谎 in bed, and I thought:
61
167000
3000
结果那晚,我躺在床上想:
03:05
What the hell地狱 is a sustainable可持续发展 protein蛋白?
62
170000
2000
可持续性蛋白质是什么鬼东西?
03:07
(Laughter笑声)
63
172000
5000
(笑声)
03:12
So the next下一个 day, just before the event事件, I called Don.
64
177000
2000
所以第二天,就在那个活动之前,我打电话给唐阁下。
03:14
I said, "Don, what are some examples例子 of sustainable可持续发展 proteins蛋白质?"
65
179000
4000
我问道:'唐阁下,你有没有一些可持续性蛋白质的例子?"
03:18
He said he didn't know. He would ask around.
66
183000
3000
他说他不知道。他会去问问周围的人。
03:21
Well, I got on the phone电话 with a few少数 people in the company公司;
67
186000
2000
然后,我和这个公司里的一些人通了电话。
03:23
no one could give me a straight直行 answer回答
68
188000
3000
但是没有人能给我一个明确的答案。
03:26
until直到 finally最后, I got on the phone电话
69
191000
3000
直到最后,我通上了电话
03:29
with the head biologist生物学家.
70
194000
2000
对方是生物学专家。
03:31
Let's call him Don too.
71
196000
2000
让我也暂且叫他 “唐阁下”。
03:33
(Laughter笑声)
72
198000
4000
(笑声)
03:37
"Don," I said,
73
202000
2000
我说:“唐阁下”
03:39
"what are some examples例子 of sustainable可持续发展 proteins蛋白质?"
74
204000
3000
“可以举例说明一下可持续性蛋白质吗?”
03:42
Well, he mentioned提到 some algaes海藻
75
207000
2000
恩,他提到了一些藻类
03:44
and some fish meals,
76
209000
2000
还有一些鱼食,
03:46
and then he said chicken pellets小球.
77
211000
2000
然后他提到鸡丸。
03:48
I said, "Chicken pellets小球?"
78
213000
2000
我问道: “鸡丸?”
03:50
He said, "Yeah, feathers羽毛, skin皮肤,
79
215000
2000
他说,“是,羽毛,鸡皮,
03:52
bone meal膳食, scraps下脚料,
80
217000
2000
骨骼,排泄物,
03:54
dried and processed处理 into feed饲料."
81
219000
3000
被晒干加工后添入饲料。”
03:57
I said, "What percentage百分比
82
222000
2000
我说:“鸡在饲料中的比例
03:59
of your feed饲料 is chicken?"
83
224000
3000
是多少?”
04:02
Thinking思维, you know, two percent百分.
84
227000
3000
想一下,你知道,2%。
04:05
"Well, it's about 30 percent百分," he said.
85
230000
3000
结果他说:“恩,大概占30%,”
04:08
I said, "Don, what's sustainable可持续发展
86
233000
3000
我说,“唐阁下,用鸡喂鱼,
04:11
about feeding馈送 chicken to fish?"
87
236000
2000
这算什么可持续发展性?”
04:13
(Laughter笑声)
88
238000
5000
(笑声)
04:18
There was a long pause暂停 on the line线,
89
243000
3000
电话的那边安静了很长时间,
04:21
and he said, "There's just too much chicken in the world世界."
90
246000
3000
然后他对我说, “世界上就是有太多的鸡了。”
04:24
(Laughter笑声)
91
249000
6000
(笑声)
04:30
I fell下跌 out of love with this fish.
92
255000
2000
于是,我不再爱这个鱼了。
04:32
(Laughter笑声)
93
257000
2000
(笑声)
04:34
No, not because I'm some self-righteous自以为是,
94
259000
3000
不,不是因为我是个自以为是,
04:37
goody-two伪善两 shoes foodie美食家.
95
262000
2000
伪善的美食家。
04:39
I actually其实 am.
96
264000
2000
其实我是这样的人。
04:41
(Laughter笑声)
97
266000
2000
(笑声)
04:43
No, I actually其实 fell下跌 out of love with this fish because, I swear发誓 to God,
98
268000
2000
不,我不再爱这个鱼了,是因为,我向上帝发誓,
04:45
after that conversation会话, the fish tasted like chicken.
99
270000
3000
在那次对话之后,那个鱼尝起来更像鸡。
04:48
(Laughter笑声)
100
273000
10000
(笑声)
04:58
This second第二 fish,
101
283000
3000
这第二条鱼,
05:01
it's a different不同 kind of love story故事.
102
286000
3000
它则是另一种不同的爱情故事。
05:04
It's the romantic浪漫 kind,
103
289000
3000
是很浪漫的那种,
05:07
the kind where the more you get to know your fish,
104
292000
3000
那种你越多了解你的鱼,
05:10
you love the fish.
105
295000
3000
你就越爱它。
05:13
I first ate it at a restaurant餐厅
106
298000
2000
我第一次在一个饭店中吃到这种鱼,
05:15
in southern南部的 Spain西班牙.
107
300000
2000
位置在西班牙南部。
05:17
A journalist记者 friend朋友 had been talking about this fish for a long time.
108
302000
3000
很久以前一个记者朋友和我说过这里。
05:20
She kind of set us up.
109
305000
2000
她可以说是个媒人。
05:22
(Laughter笑声)
110
307000
2000
(笑声)
05:24
It came来了 to the table
111
309000
2000
那条鱼在桌子上
05:26
a bright, almost几乎 shimmering闪闪发光的, white白色 color颜色.
112
311000
3000
很亮,有着光晕,白色的那种。
05:31
The chef厨师 had overcooked过头 it.
113
316000
3000
厨师烹饪它的时间过长了。
05:34
Like twice两次 over.
114
319000
3000
好像是烹饪了两次。
05:37
Amazingly令人惊讶的是, it was still delicious美味的.
115
322000
3000
但是太神奇了,它还是很好吃。
05:40
Who can make a fish taste味道 good
116
325000
4000
谁可以做出这样好吃的鱼
05:44
after it's been overcooked过头?
117
329000
2000
而且还是在烹饪时间过长的情况下?
05:46
I can't,
118
331000
2000
我不能,
05:48
but this guy can.
119
333000
2000
但是这个人可以。
05:50
Let's call him Miguel米格尔 --
120
335000
2000
让我们叫他米格尔。
05:52
actually其实 his name名称 is Miguel米格尔.
121
337000
2000
其实他的名字就是米格尔。
05:54
(Laughter笑声)
122
339000
3000
(笑声)
05:57
And no, he didn't cook厨师 the fish, and he's not a chef厨师,
123
342000
2000
但是,他没有烹调那条鱼,他也不是个厨师。
05:59
at least最小 in the way that you and I understand理解 it.
124
344000
3000
至少在你我理解的方式之内他不是。
06:03
He's a biologist生物学家
125
348000
2000
他是一个生物学家
06:05
at Veta女杰 La Palma帕尔马.
126
350000
2000
在薇塔拉帕尔马。
06:07
It's a fish farm农场 in the southwestern西南 corner of Spain西班牙.
127
352000
3000
他是个位于西班牙西南角的养鱼场。
06:10
It's at the tip小费 of the Guadalquivir瓜达尔基维尔 river.
128
355000
3000
他就在高达尔克维尔河的尖部。
06:13
Until直到 the 1980s,
129
358000
2000
直到上个世纪80年代,
06:15
the farm农场 was in the hands of the Argentinians阿根廷.
130
360000
3000
这个渔场是阿根廷人管辖的。
06:18
They raised上调 beef牛肉 cattle黄牛
131
363000
2000
他们在这里养牛
06:20
on what was essentially实质上 wetlands沼泽地.
132
365000
3000
那个时候这里基本上是湿地。
06:23
They did it by draining排水 the land土地.
133
368000
2000
当时他们把水抽走。
06:25
They built内置 this intricate错综复杂 series系列 of canals运河,
134
370000
3000
然后建造一系列复杂的运河,
06:28
and they pushed water off the land土地 and out into the river.
135
373000
3000
他们接着把这里的水排入河流。
06:32
Well, they couldn't不能 make it work,
136
377000
2000
但是,他们没有成功,
06:34
not economically经济.
137
379000
2000
我是指经济方面。
06:36
And ecologically生态, it was a disaster灾害.
138
381000
3000
而且对周围的环境造成了巨大的灾难。
06:39
It killed杀害 like 90 percent百分 of the birds鸟类,
139
384000
2000
周围差不多90%的鸟类都消失了,
06:41
which哪一个, for this place地点, is a lot of birds鸟类.
140
386000
3000
而在这个地区那些是很多的鸟。
06:44
And so in 1982,
141
389000
2000
到了1982年,
06:46
a Spanish西班牙语 company公司 with an environmental环境的 conscience良心
142
391000
2000
一家具有环保意识的的西班牙公司
06:48
purchased购买 the land土地.
143
393000
2000
购买了这块地。
06:50
What did they do?
144
395000
2000
他们做过什么?
06:52
They reversed反向的 the flow of water.
145
397000
2000
他们逆转了水流的方向。
06:54
They literally按照字面 flipped翻转 the switch开关.
146
399000
2000
他们基本上是搬动卡关。
06:56
Instead代替 of pushing推动 water out,
147
401000
2000
代替排水,
06:58
they used the channels渠道 to pull water back in.
148
403000
2000
他们用这个水渠来把水引进来。
07:00
They flooded the canals运河.
149
405000
2000
他们用水填满了这个运河。
07:02
They created创建 a 27,000-acre-英亩 fish farm农场 --
150
407000
4000
然后建立了一个27000英亩的渔场--
07:06
bass低音, mullet,
151
411000
2000
鲈鱼,梭鱼,
07:08
shrimp, eel鳗鱼 --
152
413000
2000
虾,鳗鱼 -
07:11
and in the process处理, Miguel米格尔 and this company公司
153
416000
3000
在这个工程中,米格尔,还有这个公司,
07:14
completely全然 reversed反向的 the ecological生态 destruction毁坏.
154
419000
3000
完全挽救了这次生态灾难。
07:18
The farm's农场 incredible难以置信.
155
423000
2000
这个渔场太了不起了。
07:20
I mean, you've never seen看到 anything like this.
156
425000
3000
我的意思是说,你从没见过类似的地方。
07:23
You stare out at a horizon地平线
157
428000
3000
我看着地平线
07:26
that is a million百万 miles英里 away,
158
431000
2000
它是那么的广阔,
07:28
and all you see are flooded canals运河
159
433000
2000
引入您视野的都是被注满水的河道
07:30
and this thick, rich丰富 marshland江滩.
160
435000
3000
和这个富饶的沼泽湿地
07:35
I was there not long ago with Miguel米格尔.
161
440000
3000
不久前,我和米格尔去过那儿。
07:38
He's an amazing惊人 guy,
162
443000
3000
他是个了不起的人,
07:41
like three parts部分 Charles查尔斯 Darwin达尔文 and one part部分 Crocodile鳄鱼 Dundee邓迪.
163
446000
3000
¾是达尔文,¼是鳄鱼邓迪。
07:44
(Laughter笑声)
164
449000
2000
(笑声)
07:46
Okay? There we are slogging苦读 through通过 the wetlands沼泽地,
165
451000
3000
我们进入了湿地,
07:50
and I'm panting气吁吁的 and sweating出汗, got mud up to my knees膝盖,
166
455000
2000
而我是气喘吁吁汗流浃背,淤泥没到了我的膝盖,
07:52
and Miguel's米格尔的 calmly平心静气 conducting开展 a biology生物学 lecture演讲.
167
457000
3000
还有米格尔静静讲述的生物讲义。
07:56
Here, he's pointing指点 out a rare罕见 Black-shouldered黑肩 Kite风筝.
168
461000
2000
这儿,他指向一只罕见的黑肩鸢。
07:59
Now, he's mentioning the mineral矿物 needs需求 of phytoplankton浮游植物.
169
464000
3000
这是,他提到可以满足矿物质需求的浮游植物。
08:03
And here, here he sees看到 a grouping分组 pattern模式
170
468000
3000
还有这,他看到一组图案
08:06
that reminds提醒 him of the Tanzanian坦桑尼亚 Giraffe长颈鹿.
171
471000
3000
让人联想起坦桑尼亚长颈鹿。
08:11
It turns out, Miguel米格尔 spent花费 the better part部分 of his career事业
172
476000
3000
结果,米格尔曾经花了很长时间工作在
08:14
in the Mikumi米库米 National国民 Park公园 in Africa非洲.
173
479000
3000
非洲的米库米国家公园。
08:17
I asked him how he became成为
174
482000
2000
我问他是怎么
08:19
such这样 an expert专家 on fish.
175
484000
2000
成为一位鱼类专家的。
08:21
He said, "Fish? I didn't know anything about fish.
176
486000
3000
他说: “鱼?我不了解他们。
08:24
I'm an expert专家 in relationships关系."
177
489000
3000
我只是一个关系专家。”
08:27
And then he's off, launching发射 into more talk
178
492000
2000
然后他发起了更多的对话
08:29
about rare罕见 birds鸟类 and algaes海藻
179
494000
2000
都是有关于稀有鸟类和藻类
08:31
and strange奇怪 aquatic plants植物.
180
496000
2000
还有特殊的水生植物。
08:33
And don't get me wrong错误, that was really fascinating迷人, you know,
181
498000
3000
请不要误解我,那样的谈话真的是引人入胜,
08:36
the biotic生物 community社区 unplugged不插电, kind of thing.
182
501000
3000
关于生物群落一类的事情。
08:39
It's great, but I was in love.
183
504000
3000
这都很好,但是我恋爱了。
08:42
And my head was swooning动荡不已 over that
184
507000
3000
我脑中始终惦记着那条
08:45
overcooked过头 piece of delicious美味的 fish I had the night before.
185
510000
3000
我前一晚品尝过被过度烹饪的美味的鱼。
08:48
So I interrupted间断 him. I said,
186
513000
2000
所以我中断了他。我说,
08:50
"Miguel米格尔, what makes品牌 your fish taste味道 so good?"
187
515000
2000
“米格尔,什么使你的鱼那么好吃?"
08:52
He pointed at the algae藻类.
188
517000
2000
他指向藻类。
08:54
"I know, dude花花公子, the algae藻类, the phytoplankton浮游植物,
189
519000
3000
“我知道,兄弟,藻类,浮游植物,
08:57
the relationships关系: It's amazing惊人.
190
522000
3000
关系,这些都很神奇。
09:00
But what are your fish eating?
191
525000
2000
但是你的鱼吃什么?
09:02
What's the feed饲料 conversion转变 ratio?"
192
527000
3000
饲料转换率是多少??”
09:05
Well, he goes on to tell me
193
530000
3000
然后他继续告诉我
09:09
it's such这样 a rich丰富 system系统
194
534000
2000
这是一个很富饶的系统,
09:11
that the fish are eating what they'd他们会 be eating in the wild野生.
195
536000
3000
这些鱼吃的就是它们在野外吃的东西。
09:14
The plant biomass生物质, the phytoplankton浮游植物,
196
539000
3000
植物的生物质,浮游植物,
09:17
the zooplankton浮游动物, it's what feeds供稿 the fish.
197
542000
2000
浮游生物,都是鱼的饲料。
09:19
The system系统 is so healthy健康,
198
544000
2000
这个系统非常健康,
09:21
it's totally完全 self-renewing自我更新.
199
546000
2000
它完全是自我更新的。
09:23
There is no feed饲料.
200
548000
2000
没有任何饲料。
09:26
Ever heard听说 of a farm农场 that doesn't feed饲料 its animals动物?
201
551000
3000
听说过一个不喂动物饲料的农场吗?
09:33
Later后来 that day, I was driving主动 around this property属性 with Miguel米格尔,
202
558000
2000
那天晚些时候,我和米格尔开着车在周围兜风,
09:35
and I asked him, I said, "For a place地点 that seems似乎 so natural自然,
203
560000
4000
我问他,“这样一个看起来如此自然的地方,”
09:39
unlike不像 like any farm农场 I'd ever been at,
204
564000
3000
不像其它任何一个我曾经见过的农场,
09:44
how do you measure测量 success成功?"
205
569000
3000
“你如何衡量成功?”
09:47
At that moment时刻, it was as if
206
572000
3000
就在那时,仿佛有一位
09:50
a film电影 director导向器 called for a set change更改.
207
575000
2000
电影导演突然要求改变场景。
09:52
And we rounded the corner
208
577000
2000
我们转过弯
09:54
and saw the most amazing惊人 sight视力:
209
579000
2000
看到最美的画面,
09:56
thousands数千 and thousands数千 of pink flamingos火烈鸟,
210
581000
3000
成千上万的粉色火烈鸟,
09:59
a literal文字 pink carpet地毯 for as far as you could see.
211
584000
4000
可以说是一张粉色的地毯。
10:03
"That's success成功," he said.
212
588000
2000
他说,“那就是成功。”
10:06
"Look at their bellies肚子, pink.
213
591000
2000
“看他们的腹部,粉色的。
10:08
They're feasting灯红酒绿."
214
593000
2000
他们正在享受盛宴。”
10:10
Feasting灯红酒绿? I was totally完全 confused困惑.
215
595000
2000
盛宴?我完全迷惑了。
10:12
I said, "Miguel米格尔, aren't they feasting灯红酒绿 on your fish?"
216
597000
2000
我说,“米格尔,他们的盛宴不正是你的鱼吗?”
10:14
(Laughter笑声)
217
599000
2000
(笑声)
10:16
"Yes," he said.
218
601000
2000
“正是,"他说。
10:18
(Laughter笑声)
219
603000
6000
(笑声)
10:24
"We lose失去 20 percent百分 of our fish
220
609000
2000
“鸟类会吃掉我们20%的鱼
10:26
and fish eggs to birds鸟类.
221
611000
3000
还有鱼卵。
10:30
Well, last year, this property属性
222
615000
2000
而且,去年,这个渔场
10:32
had 600,000 birds鸟类 on it,
223
617000
2000
有600000只鸟,
10:34
more than 250 different不同 species种类.
224
619000
2000
超过250个不同的种群。
10:36
It's become成为, today今天, the largest最大
225
621000
3000
今天,这里已经成为最大的
10:39
and one of the most important重要
226
624000
3000
而且是全欧洲最重要的
10:42
private私人的 bird sanctuaries避难所 in all of Europe欧洲."
227
627000
4000
私有鸟类自然保护区之一。
10:46
I said, "Miguel米格尔, isn't a thriving bird population人口
228
631000
3000
我说,“米格尔,这么多的鸟类数量
10:49
like the last thing you want on a fish farm农场?"
229
634000
2000
不是一个渔场最不想要到的吗?”
10:51
(Laughter笑声)
230
636000
2000
(笑声)
10:53
He shook震撼 his head, no.
231
638000
2000
不,他摇摇头。
10:55
He said, "We farm农场 extensively广泛,
232
640000
3000
他说, “我们是广义上的养殖,
10:58
not intensively集中.
233
643000
3000
不是刻意的。
11:01
This is an ecological生态 network网络.
234
646000
3000
这是一个生态网络。
11:04
The flamingos火烈鸟 eat the shrimp.
235
649000
2000
这些火烈鸟吃掉虾。
11:06
The shrimp eat the phytoplankton浮游植物.
236
651000
2000
虾吃浮游动物。
11:08
So the pinker平克 the belly肚皮,
237
653000
2000
所以他们的肚子上粉色越鲜艳,
11:10
the better the system系统."
238
655000
3000
代表这个系统越好。”
11:13
Okay, so let's review评论:
239
658000
2000
好的,让我们重新审视一下。
11:15
a farm农场 that doesn't feed饲料 its animals动物,
240
660000
3000
一个农场不给它的动物喂食,
11:18
and a farm农场 that measures措施 its success成功
241
663000
3000
而且它衡量自己的成功是
11:21
on the health健康 of its predators大鳄.
242
666000
2000
根据它的天敌。
11:23
A fish farm农场, but also a bird sanctuary避难所.
243
668000
3000
一个渔场,同时也是个鸟类庇护所。
11:26
Oh, and by the way, those flamingos火烈鸟,
244
671000
2000
而且,顺便说一句,那些火烈鸟,
11:28
they shouldn't不能 even be there in the first place地点.
245
673000
2000
它们本不应该在那里。
11:30
They brood in a town
246
675000
2000
它们在城里繁殖
11:32
150 miles英里 away,
247
677000
2000
而且是在150英里以外的,
11:34
where the soil conditions条件
248
679000
2000
那里的土壤状况
11:36
are better for building建造 nests.
249
681000
2000
更加适合做巢。
11:38
Every一切 morning早上, they fly
250
683000
2000
每天早上,它们飞行
11:40
150 miles英里 into the farm农场.
251
685000
2000
150英里来到这个渔场。
11:44
And every一切 evening晚间, they fly 150 miles英里 back.
252
689000
3000
到了晚上,他们在飞行150英里回家。
11:47
(Laughter笑声)
253
692000
5000
(笑声)
11:54
They do that because they're able能够 to follow跟随
254
699000
3000
他们这样做是因为他们能顺着
11:57
the broken破碎 white白色 line线
255
702000
2000
A92号高速公路
11:59
of highway高速公路 A92.
256
704000
2000
的白线。
12:01
(Laughter笑声)
257
706000
2000
(笑声)
12:03
No kidding开玩笑.
258
708000
2000
没开玩笑。
12:05
I was imagining想象 a "March游行 of the Penguins企鹅" thing,
259
710000
3000
我一直在脑海中想象类似【帝企鹅日记】的事,
12:08
so I looked看着 at Miguel米格尔.
260
713000
2000
我看着米格尔。
12:10
I said, "Miguel米格尔, do they fly
261
715000
2000
我说,“米格尔,它们飞行
12:12
150 miles英里 to the farm农场,
262
717000
2000
150英里来渔场,
12:14
and then do they fly
263
719000
2000
然后它们晚上再
12:16
150 miles英里 back at night?
264
721000
2000
飞150英里回去吗?
12:18
Do they do that for the children孩子?"
265
723000
3000
它们这么做是为了孩子吗?”
12:21
He looked看着 at me like I had just quoted a Whitney惠特尼 Houston休斯顿 song歌曲.
266
726000
3000
他看着我就像是我刚刚引用了惠特尼休斯顿的歌。
12:24
(Laughter笑声)
267
729000
4000
(笑声)
12:28
He said, "No; they do it because the food's食品的 better."
268
733000
3000
他说,“不,他们这么做因为这里的食物更好。”
12:31
(Laughter笑声)
269
736000
2000
(笑声)
12:33
I didn't mention提到 the skin皮肤 of my beloved心爱 fish,
270
738000
4000
我还没有提到我最爱的鱼的皮吧,
12:41
which哪一个 was delicious美味的 -- and I don't like fish skin皮肤;
271
746000
2000
真的是很美味,而且我通常不喜欢鱼皮。
12:43
I don't like it seared香煎, I don't like it crispy香脆.
272
748000
3000
我通常不喜欢烤的。我也不喜欢脆的。
12:46
It's that acrid辛辣, tar-like柏油样 flavor味道.
273
751000
3000
它有辛辣,像柏油那样的味道。
12:50
I almost几乎 never cook厨师 with it.
274
755000
2000
我从不把它和鱼一起做。
12:53
Yet然而, when I tasted it at that restaurant餐厅 in southern南部的 Spain西班牙,
275
758000
3000
但是,当我在西班牙南部的那个餐馆尝到它的时候,
12:56
it tasted not at all like fish skin皮肤.
276
761000
3000
尝起来不像是鱼皮。
12:59
It tasted sweet and clean清洁,
277
764000
3000
它尝起来微甜而且干净
13:02
like you were taking服用 a bite of the ocean海洋.
278
767000
3000
就像你尝了一口海洋自然的味道。
13:05
I mentioned提到 that to Miguel米格尔, and he nodded点头.
279
770000
2000
我向米格尔提到我的想法,他点点头。
13:07
He said, "The skin皮肤 acts行为 like a sponge海绵.
280
772000
2000
他说,“鱼皮的作用就像是海绵。
13:09
It's the last defense防御 before anything enters进入 the body身体.
281
774000
3000
它是阻止任何物质进入到体内的最后的防线。
13:12
It evolved进化 to soak浸泡 up impurities杂质."
282
777000
2000
它的作用是吸收杂质。”
13:14
And then he added添加,
283
779000
2000
然后他继续说,
13:16
"But our water has no impurities杂质."
284
781000
3000
“但是我们的水没有杂质.”
13:22
OK. A farm农场 that doesn't feed饲料 its fish,
285
787000
3000
好的。一个渔厂不喂它的鱼。
13:26
a farm农场 that measures措施 its success成功
286
791000
3000
一个渔场衡量它的成功
13:29
by the success成功 of its predators大鳄.
287
794000
2000
是依照它天敌的成功。
13:31
And then I realized实现 when he says,
288
796000
2000
然后我意识到当他说,
13:33
"A farm农场 that has no impurities杂质,"
289
798000
3000
一个渔场没有杂质,
13:36
he made制作 a big understatement轻描淡写,
290
801000
2000
他轻描淡写的说,
13:38
because the water that flows流动 through通过 that farm农场
291
803000
2000
因为在渔场中流过的水
13:40
comes in from the Guadalquivir瓜达尔基维尔 River.
292
805000
3000
来自于高达尔克维尔河。
13:43
It's a river that carries携带 with it
293
808000
2000
那条河中含有
13:45
all the things that rivers河流 tend趋向 to carry携带 these days:
294
810000
3000
现在所有的一条河里都有的东西,
13:48
chemical化学 contaminants污染物,
295
813000
2000
化学污染物,
13:50
pesticide农药 runoff径流.
296
815000
2000
农药残留。
13:52
And when it works作品 its way through通过 the system系统
297
817000
3000
然后当它进入这个系统
13:55
and leaves树叶,
298
820000
2000
之后离开时,
13:57
the water is cleaner清洁器 than when it entered进入.
299
822000
2000
水质变得比来时更干净。
13:59
The system系统 is so healthy健康, it purifies净化 the water.
300
824000
3000
这个系统很卫生,它可以过滤这儿的水。
14:03
So, not just a farm农场 that doesn't feed饲料 its animals动物,
301
828000
2000
所以,这个渔场不只是不喂动物,
14:05
not just a farm农场 that measures措施 its success成功
302
830000
3000
不只是衡量它的成功
14:08
by the health健康 of its predators大鳄,
303
833000
2000
根据天敌的健康状况,
14:10
but a farm农场 that's literally按照字面 a water purification纯化 plant --
304
835000
3000
但是是一个渔场基本上还是个水净化厂,
14:16
and not just for those fish,
305
841000
3000
而且不仅仅是为那些鱼,
14:19
but for you and me as well.
306
844000
2000
更是为了你和我。
14:21
Because when that water leaves树叶, it dumps转储 out into the Atlantic大西洋.
307
846000
3000
因为当水离开这里时,它会流入大西洋。
14:26
A drop下降 in the ocean海洋, I know,
308
851000
2000
我知道,这个作用是十分微薄的,
14:28
but I'll take it, and so should you,
309
853000
3000
但是我很重视它,而且你们应该也是,
14:31
because this love story故事,
310
856000
3000
因为这个爱情故事,
14:35
however然而 romantic浪漫,
311
860000
2000
不但浪漫,
14:37
is also instructive教育性.
312
862000
2000
而且有教育意义。
14:39
You might威力 say it's a recipe食谱
313
864000
2000
你也许会说它是未来
14:41
for the future未来 of good food餐饮,
314
866000
2000
美食的食谱,
14:43
whether是否 we're talking about bass低音 or beef牛肉 cattle黄牛.
315
868000
3000
不管是我们在说鲈鱼还是牛肉。
14:47
What we need now is
316
872000
2000
我们现在需要的是
14:49
a radically根本 new conception概念 of agriculture农业,
317
874000
3000
一个全新的农业概念,
14:52
one in which哪一个 the food餐饮 actually其实 tastes口味 good.
318
877000
2000
一种真正的美食。
14:54
(Laughter笑声)
319
879000
2000
(笑声)
14:56
(Applause掌声)
320
881000
6000
(掌声)
15:02
But for a lot people,
321
887000
2000
但是对很多人来说,
15:04
that's a bit too radical激进.
322
889000
3000
那太极端了。
15:07
We're not realists现实主义者, us foodies美食家;
323
892000
2000
我们不是现实主义者,我们的美食家。
15:09
we're lovers情侣.
324
894000
2000
我们是爱人。
15:11
We love farmers'农民 markets市场,
325
896000
2000
我们爱农产品市场。
15:13
we love small family家庭 farms农场,
326
898000
3000
我们爱小型的家庭式农场。
15:16
we talk about local本地 food餐饮,
327
901000
2000
我们谈论区域性食品。
15:18
we eat organic有机.
328
903000
3000
我们吃有机食品。
15:21
And when you suggest建议 these are the things
329
906000
2000
然后当你建议这些食品
15:23
that will ensure确保 the future未来 of good food餐饮,
330
908000
4000
会保证未来的美食,
15:27
someone有人, somewhere某处 stands站立 up and says,
331
912000
2000
某人在某地站起来说,
15:29
"Hey guy, I love pink flamingos火烈鸟,
332
914000
4000
"我说哥们,我爱粉色的火烈鸟,
15:33
but how are you going to feed饲料 the world世界?"
333
918000
3000
但是你怎么让这个世界填饱肚子?
15:36
How are you going to feed饲料 the world世界?
334
921000
3000
你怎么为这个世界填饱肚子?"
15:39
Can I be honest诚实?
335
924000
2000
我可以坦诚点吗?
15:41
I don't love that question.
336
926000
3000
我不喜欢你的问题。
15:44
No, not because we already已经 produce生产
337
929000
2000
不,不只是因为我们已经生产
15:46
enough足够 calories卡路里 to more than feed饲料 the world世界.
338
931000
3000
了远远超出我们这个世界需要的卡路里。
15:49
One billion十亿 people will go hungry饥饿 today今天.
339
934000
3000
今天十亿人还是在饿着肚子。
15:52
One billion十亿 -- that's more than ever before --
340
937000
3000
十亿--那比以前任何时候都多--
15:56
because of gross inequalities不平等 in distribution分配,
341
941000
3000
根本原因在于总体上的分配不平衡,
15:59
not tonnage吨位.
342
944000
2000
不是按吨位算的。
16:02
Now, I don't love this question because it's determined决心 the logic逻辑
343
947000
2000
我不喜欢这个问题的真正原因是因为他拟定了一个食物系统的
16:04
of our food餐饮 system系统 for the last 50 years年份.
344
949000
3000
逻辑,一个存在于过去的50年中的逻辑。
16:07
Feed饲料 grain粮食 to herbivores食草动物,
345
952000
3000
把谷物喂给食草动物,
16:10
pesticides农药 to monocultures单一种植, chemicals化学制品 to soil,
346
955000
2000
把农药给单品种作物,化学品给土壤,
16:12
chicken to fish,
347
957000
3000
把鸡给鱼,
16:15
and all along沿 agribusiness农业
348
960000
3000
然后各类农业可以
16:18
has simply只是 asked,
349
963000
2000
简单的问,
16:20
"If we're feeding馈送 more people more cheaply廉价地,
350
965000
2000
“如果我们用更便宜的方法养活更多的人,
16:22
how terrible可怕 could that be?"
351
967000
3000
有什么不对的呢?”
16:25
That's been the motivation动机,
352
970000
2000
那就是一个动机。
16:27
it's been the justification理由:
353
972000
2000
它已经变得合乎情理了。
16:29
it's been the business商业 plan计划
354
974000
3000
它是一个商业计划
16:32
of American美国 agriculture农业.
355
977000
2000
属于美国农业的。
16:34
We should call it what it is:
356
979000
2000
我们应该指出它的真面目,
16:36
a business商业 in liquidation清算,
357
981000
3000
一个在清算的生意,
16:39
a business商业 that's quickly很快 eroding侵蚀
358
984000
3000
一个迅速侵蚀的生意
16:42
ecological生态 capital首都 that makes品牌 that very production生产 possible可能.
359
987000
3000
生态资本使得这种生产成为可能。
16:45
That's not a business商业,
360
990000
2000
那不是一个生意,
16:47
and it isn't agriculture农业.
361
992000
2000
它也不是农业。
16:49
Our breadbasket粮仓 is threatened受威胁 today今天,
362
994000
3000
今天我们的食品正在受到威胁,
16:52
not because of diminishing逐渐缩小的 supply供应,
363
997000
2000
不是因为正在递减的供给,
16:54
but because of diminishing逐渐缩小的 resources资源.
364
999000
3000
而是因为正在递减的资源,
16:57
Not by the latest最新 combine结合 and tractor拖拉机 invention发明,
365
1002000
3000
不是靠最新的嫁接技术与拖拉机的发明,
17:00
but by fertile land土地;
366
1005000
2000
而是肥沃的土壤,
17:02
not by pumps, but by fresh新鲜 water;
367
1007000
3000
不是靠水泵,而是靠新鲜的水源,
17:05
not by chainsaws链锯, but by forests森林;
368
1010000
3000
不是靠电锯,而是靠森林,
17:08
and not by fishing钓鱼 boats and nets, but by fish in the sea.
369
1013000
3000
不是靠渔船和渔网,而是靠海洋里的鱼。
17:11
Want to feed饲料 the world世界?
370
1016000
2000
想要喂饱这个世界?
17:13
Let's start开始 by asking: How are we going to feed饲料 ourselves我们自己?
371
1018000
3000
让我们开始问:我们怎么去喂养我们自己?
17:17
Or better: How can we create创建 conditions条件
372
1022000
3000
或者更好的,我们怎么去建立一种环境
17:20
that enable启用 every一切 community社区
373
1025000
3000
它可以让每一个团体
17:23
to feed饲料 itself本身?
374
1028000
2000
去养活自己?
17:25
(Applause掌声)
375
1030000
7000
(掌声)
17:32
To do that,
376
1037000
2000
要做到那样,
17:34
don't look at the agribusiness农业 model模型 for the future未来.
377
1039000
3000
不要指望未来沿用现在的农业模型。
17:37
It's really old, and it's tired.
378
1042000
2000
它已经过时了,而且很疲劳。
17:39
It's high on capital首都, chemistry化学 and machines,
379
1044000
4000
因为它过度依赖资本,化学,和机械,
17:43
and it's never produced生成 anything really good to eat.
380
1048000
3000
而且它生产不出来真正的好食品。
17:48
Instead代替, let's look to the ecological生态 model模型.
381
1053000
4000
取而代之,让我们看看生态模式。
17:52
That's the one that relies依赖 on two billion十亿 years年份
382
1057000
3000
它存在了20亿年
17:55
of on-the-job在工作中 experience经验.
383
1060000
3000
同时具有实战经验。
17:58
Look to Miguel米格尔,
384
1063000
2000
看看米格尔,
18:00
farmers农民 like Miguel米格尔.
385
1065000
2000
看看像米格尔这样的农民,
18:02
Farms农场 that aren't worlds世界 unto themselves他们自己;
386
1067000
3000
不只属于他们自己的农场,
18:05
farms农场 that restore恢复 instead代替 of deplete消耗;
387
1070000
5000
它自我恢复,而不是消耗,
18:10
farms农场 that farm农场 extensively广泛
388
1075000
2000
广义的农场
18:12
instead代替 of just intensively集中;
389
1077000
2000
取代只是狭义的,
18:14
farmers农民 that are not just producers生产商,
390
1079000
3000
农民不再只是生产者,
18:17
but experts专家 in relationships关系.
391
1082000
2000
而是关系专家,
18:19
Because they're the ones那些
392
1084000
2000
因为他们
18:21
that are experts专家 in flavor味道, too.
393
1086000
3000
同时也是口味上的专家。
18:24
And if I'm going to be really honest诚实,
394
1089000
2000
而且如果要我说实话,
18:26
they're a better chef厨师 than I'll ever be.
395
1091000
3000
他们是比我更好的厨师。
18:29
You know, I'm okay with that,
396
1094000
3000
你们知道,我完全认同这样的事,
18:32
because if that's the future未来 of good food餐饮, it's going to be delicious美味的.
397
1097000
3000
因为如果未来的优质食品是这样的,它们肯定会是非常美味的。
18:35
Thank you.
398
1100000
2000
谢谢你们。
18:37
(Applause掌声)
399
1102000
17000
(掌声)♫
Translated by Yi Zong
Reviewed by Zachary Lin Zhao

▲Back to top

ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Dan Barber - Chef
Dan Barber is a chef and a scholar -- relentlessly pursuing the stories and reasons behind the foods we grow and eat.

Why you should listen

Dan Barber is the chef at New York's Blue Hill restaurant, and Blue Hill at Stone Barns in Westchester, where he practices a kind of close-to-the-land cooking married to agriculture and stewardship of the earth. As described on Chez Pim: "Stone Barns is only 45 minutes from Manhattan, but it might as well be a whole different universe. A model of self-sufficiency and environmental responsibility, Stone Barns is a working farm, ranch, and a three-Michelin-star-worthy restaurant." It's a vision of a new kind of food chain.

Barber's philosophy of food focuses on pleasure and thoughtful conservation -- on knowing where the food on your plate comes from and the unseen forces that drive what we eat. He's written on US agricultural policies, asking for a new vision that does not throw the food chain out of balance by subsidizing certain crops at the expense of more appropriate ones.

In 2009, Barber received the James Beard award for America's Outstanding Chef, and was named one of the world's most influential people in Time’s annual "Time 100" list. In 2014 he published The Third Plate: Field Notes on the Future of Food.

More profile about the speaker
Dan Barber | Speaker | TED.com