ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Julian Assange - Whistleblower
Internet activist Julian Assange serves as spokesperson for WikiLeaks, a controversial, volunteer-driven website that publishes and comments on leaked documents alleging government and corporate misconduct.

Why you should listen

You could say Australian-born Julian Assange has swapped his long-time interest in network security flaws for the far-more-suspect flaws of even bigger targets: governments and corporations. Since his early 20s, he has been using network technology to prod and probe the vulnerable edges of administrative systems, but though he was a computing hobbyist first (in 1991 he was the target of hacking charges after he accessed the computers of an Australian telecom), he's now taken off his "white hat" and launched a career as one of the world's most visible human-rights activists.

He calls himself "editor in chief." He travels the globe as its spokesperson. Yet Assange's part in WikiLeaks is clearly dicier than that: he's become the face of creature that, simply, many powerful organizations would rather see the world rid of. His Wikipedia entry says he is "constantly on the move," and some speculate that his role in publishing decrypted US military video has put him in personal danger. A controversial figure, pundits debate whether his work is reckless and does more harm than good. Amnesty International recognized him with an International Media Award in 2009.

Assange studied physics and mathematics at the University of Melbourne. He wrote Strobe, the first free and open-source port scanner, and contributed to the book Underground: Tales of Hacking, Madness and Obsession on the Electronic Frontier.

More profile about the speaker
Julian Assange | Speaker | TED.com
TEDGlobal 2010

Julian Assange: Why the world needs WikiLeaks

Julian Assange:世界为何需要“维基揭密”

Filmed:
2,716,210 views

极具争议的网站“维基揭密”收集并发布机密文件和视频。据传被美国政府传唤问询的其建立者Julian Assange,向TED主持人Chris Anderson讲述了该网站的建立和成就——以及他的动机。该采访包含近期美国在巴格达的空袭镜头
- Whistleblower
Internet activist Julian Assange serves as spokesperson for WikiLeaks, a controversial, volunteer-driven website that publishes and comments on leaked documents alleging government and corporate misconduct. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:15
Chris克里斯 Anderson安德森: Julian朱利安, welcome欢迎.
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Chris Anderson:Julian,欢迎你
00:17
It's been reported报道 that WikiLeaks维基解密, your baby宝宝,
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有报道说“维基揭密”——你的心血结晶
00:19
has, in the last few少数 years年份
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在过去的几年
00:21
has released发布 more classified分类 documents文件
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所公布的机密文件数目
00:24
than the rest休息 of the world's世界 media媒体 combined结合.
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超过了世界所有媒体公布数的总和
00:26
Can that possibly或者 be true真正?
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这有可能吗?
00:28
Julian朱利安 Assange阿桑奇: Yeah, can it possibly或者 be true真正?
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Julian Assange:是的,这有可能吗?
00:30
It's a worry担心 -- isn't it? -- that the rest休息 of the world's世界 media媒体
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这是个问题,不是吗?世界上的其他媒体
00:33
is doing such这样 a bad job工作
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得有多糟糕啊
00:35
that a little group of activists活动家
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以至于一群社会活动家
00:37
is able能够 to release发布 more
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就能公开
00:39
of that type类型 of information信息
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比世界上所有媒体
00:41
than the rest休息 of the world世界 press combined结合.
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加起来还要多的机密文件
00:43
CACA: How does it work?
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CA:这是如何运作的?
00:45
How do people release发布 the documents文件?
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你们是怎样公开这些文件的?
00:48
And how do you secure安全 their privacy隐私?
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你们如何确保他们的隐私?
00:51
JAJA: So these are -- as far as we can tell --
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JA:最多能告诉你们
00:53
classical古典 whistleblowers举报人,
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他们是传统的告密者
00:55
and we have a number of ways方法 for them
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我们提供一些方式
00:57
to get information信息 to us.
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让他们把信息告诉我们
00:59
So we use this state-of-the-art最先进的 encryption加密
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我们运用最先进的加密方式
01:01
to bounce弹跳 stuff东东 around the Internet互联网, to hide隐藏 trails步道,
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来在网上传播信息,隐藏痕迹
01:03
pass通过 it through通过 legal法律 jurisdictions司法管辖区
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在司法管辖区内传递
01:05
like Sweden瑞典 and Belgium比利时
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比如瑞典和比利时
01:08
to enact制定 those legal法律 protections保护.
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以求获得法律保护
01:12
We get information信息 in the mail邮件,
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我们通过信件获得信息
01:14
the regular定期 postal邮政 mail邮件,
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最普通的邮递信件
01:17
encrypted加密 or not,
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不论是否加密
01:19
vet兽医 it like a regular定期 news新闻 organization组织, format格式 it --
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我们和任何新闻机构一样对信息进行审查,排版
01:22
which哪一个 is sometimes有时 something that's quite相当 hard to do,
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尽管有时这显得相当困难
01:25
when you're talking about
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考虑到所涉及的
01:27
giant巨人 databases数据库 of information信息 --
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透露给公众的
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release发布 it to the public上市
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巨大的信息量
01:31
and then defend保卫 ourselves我们自己
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然后保护我们不受
01:33
against反对 the inevitable必然 legal法律 and political政治 attacks攻击.
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不可避免的法律和政治攻击的影响
01:36
CACA: So you make an effort功夫 to ensure确保
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CA:所以说你们尽量保证
01:38
the documents文件 are legitimate合法,
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这些文件是正确的
01:40
but you actually其实
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但实际上
01:42
almost几乎 never know who the identity身分 of the source资源 is?
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你们几乎不了解消息来源的身份?
01:45
JAJA: That's right, yeah. Very rarely很少 do we ever know,
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JA:没错,我们很少知道
01:49
and if we find out at some stage阶段
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如果在某阶段我们的确发现了其身份
01:52
then we destroy破坏 that information信息 as soon不久 as possible可能.
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我们也会尽快销毁这一信息
01:55
(Phone电话 ring) God damn该死的 it.
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(电话铃声)该死!
01:57
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
02:01
CACA: I think that's the CIA中央情报局 asking what the code is
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CA:我想那是中情局在询问
02:03
for a TEDTED membership.
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TED成员的代码是什么
02:05
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
02:08
So let's take [an] example, actually其实.
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现在我们来看个实际例子
02:10
This is something
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这是几年前
02:12
you leaked泄露 a few少数 years年份 ago.
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泄露的消息
02:14
If we can have this document文件 up ...
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现在我们可以公布这个文件
02:16
So this was a story故事 in Kenya肯尼亚 a few少数 years年份 ago.
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这是几年前发生在肯尼亚的故事
02:18
Can you tell us what you leaked泄露 and what happened发生?
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你能告诉我们你们泄露了什么以及后来发生了些什么吗?
02:21
JAJA: So this is the Kroll克罗尔 Report报告.
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JA:这是所谓的克勒尔报告
02:23
This was a secret秘密 intelligence情报 report报告
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这是一份秘密情报
02:26
commissioned委托 by the Kenyan肯尼亚 government政府
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由肯尼亚政府
02:28
after its election选举 in 2004.
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在2004年大选之后授权制作的
02:31
Prior to 2004, Kenya肯尼亚 was ruled统治
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2004年之前,肯尼亚在
02:33
by Daniel丹尼尔 arap·阿拉普 Moi莫伊
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Daniel arap Moi的统治下
02:35
for about 18 years年份.
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长达18年
02:37
He was a soft柔软的 dictator独裁者 of Kenya肯尼亚.
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他是肯尼亚的软独裁者
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And when Kibaki齐贝吉 got into power功率 --
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后来当Kibaki试图掌权时——
02:42
through通过 a coalition联盟 of forces军队 that were trying
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他利用了试图肃清肯尼亚腐败现象的
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to clean清洁 up corruption腐败 in Kenya肯尼亚 --
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一些联合力量——
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they commissioned委托 this report报告,
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他们便授权搜集了这样一份报告
02:48
spent花费 about two million百万 pounds英镑
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一共花费了两百万英镑
02:50
on this and an associated相关 report报告.
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在这份及另一份相关报告上
02:52
And then the government政府 satSAT on it
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然后Kibaki政府以此为据
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and used it for political政治 leverage杠杆作用 on Moi莫伊,
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推翻了Moi——
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who was the richest首富 man --
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这个自始至终的肯尼亚首富——
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still is the richest首富 man -- in Kenya肯尼亚.
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在肯尼亚的统治
03:02
It's the Holy Grail圣杯 of Kenyan肯尼亚 journalism新闻学.
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这是肯尼亚新闻界的圣杯
03:05
So I went there in 2007,
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我2007年到了那里
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and we managed管理 to get hold保持 of this
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我们设法在大选之前
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just prior to the election选举 --
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得到了这份报告——
03:12
the national国民 election选举, December十二月 28.
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全国大选定于12月28日
03:17
When we released发布 that report报告,
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当我们公布这份报告时
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we did so three days after the new president主席, Kibaki齐贝吉,
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正是新任总统,Kibaki
03:23
had decided决定 to pal朋友 up with
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决定同那位他企图打击的人
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the man that he was going to clean清洁 out,
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进行合作的三日之后
03:27
Daniel丹尼尔 arap·阿拉普 Moi莫伊,
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那人即Daniel arap Moi
03:29
so this report报告 then
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所以这份报告在当时
03:32
became成为 a dead albatross信天翁
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成为了一个致命的负担
03:34
around President主席 Kibaki's齐贝吉 neck颈部.
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压在了Kibaki总统的身上
03:38
CACA: And -- I mean, to cut a long story故事 short --
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CA:接下来——长话短说
03:41
word of the report报告 leaked泄露 into Kenya肯尼亚,
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关于此份报告的消息在肯尼亚走漏
03:44
not from the official官方 media媒体, but indirectly间接,
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不是通过正规媒体,而是间接地
03:47
and in your opinion意见, it actually其实 shifted the election选举.
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而以你的观点,它实际上改变了选举的进程
03:50
JAJA: Yeah. So this became成为 front面前 page of the Guardian监护人
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JA:是的,这件事上了卫报的头版
03:53
and was then printed印刷的 in all the surrounding周围 countries国家 of Kenya肯尼亚,
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然后被肯尼亚所有周边国家转载
03:56
in Tanzanian坦桑尼亚 and South African非洲人 press.
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如坦桑尼亚和南非的媒体
03:59
And so it came来了 in from the outside.
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接着从外部流入肯尼亚国内
04:01
And that, after a couple一对 of days,
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几天之后
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made制作 the Kenyan肯尼亚 press feel safe安全 to talk about it.
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肯尼亚的媒体认为是时候谈论此事了
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And it ran for 20 nights straight直行 on Kenyan肯尼亚 TV电视,
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他们通过电视对此事进行了连续二十晚的报道
04:08
shifted the vote投票 by 10 percent百分,
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影响了百分之十的选票
04:11
according根据 to a Kenyan肯尼亚 intelligence情报 report报告,
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根据肯尼亚的情报报告
04:13
which哪一个 changed the result结果 of the election选举.
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由此改变了大选的结果
04:15
CACA: Wow, so your leak泄漏
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CA:哇,所以你泄露的消息
04:17
really substantially基本上 changed the world世界?
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确实从实质上改变了世界?
04:19
JAJA: Yep是的.
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JA:没错
04:21
(Applause掌声)
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(掌声)
04:25
CACA: Here's这里的 -- We're going to just show显示
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CA:在这里,我们将播放
04:27
a short clip from this
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一小段视频
04:30
Baghdad巴格达 airstrike空袭 video视频.
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出自这份巴格达空袭录像
04:32
The video视频 itself本身 is longer,
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这段视频本身要长一些
04:34
but here's这里的 a short clip.
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这里我们只截取了一小段
04:36
This is -- this is intense激烈 material材料, I should warn警告 you.
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这是段很激烈的视频,我先提醒大家
04:39
Radio无线电: ... just fuckin'他妈的, once一旦 you get on 'em“时间 just open打开 'em“时间 up.
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无线电:...去你的,对准就崩了他们
04:42
I see your element元件, uh, got about four Humvees悍马车, uh, out along沿 ...
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我看到你的人了,呃,大概有4辆悍马,呃,一起的
04:46
You're clear明确. All right. Firing射击.
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你安全了。很好。开火
04:49
Let me know when you've got them. Let's shoot射击.
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瞄准给我信号。开枪!
04:52
Light 'em“时间 all up.
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把他们都干掉
04:54
C'mon来吧, fire!
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来吧,开火!
04:56
(Machine gun fire)
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(机关枪射击)
04:59
Keep shoot射击 'n“N. Keep shoot射击 'n“N.
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继续射击。继续射击。
05:02
(Machine gun fire)
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(机关枪射击)
05:05
Keep shoot射击 'n“N.
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继续射击。
05:08
Hotel旅馆 ... Bushmaster毒蛇 Two-Six双六, Bushmaster毒蛇 Two-Six双六,
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HB26,HB26
05:10
we need to move移动, time now!
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转移,现在!
05:12
All right, we just engaged订婚 all eight individuals个人.
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很好,我们刚解决了8个人
05:15
Yeah, we see two birds鸟类 [helicopters直升机], and we're still firing射击.
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我看到两个逃跑的,别熄火
05:18
Roger罗杰. I got 'em“时间.
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Roger,我搞的定
05:20
Two-Six双六, this is Two-Six双六, we're mobile移动.
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26,这是26,我们移动中
05:22
Oops哎呀, I'm sorry. What was going on?
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糟糕,抱歉,刚才是怎么回事?
05:24
God damn该死的 it, Kyle凯尔. All right, hahaha哈哈哈. I hit击中 'em“时间.
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该死的,凯尔。算了,哈哈哈,我打到他们了。
05:29
CACA: So, what was the impact碰撞 of that?
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CA:所以,刚才那段视频有什么影响?
05:32
JAJA: The impact碰撞 on the people who worked工作 on it
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JA:对视频中的人物
05:35
was severe严重.
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其后果很严重
05:37
We ended结束 up sending发出 two people to Baghdad巴格达
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我们派了2个人去巴格达
05:39
to further进一步 research研究 that story故事.
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来跟踪调查这个故事
05:41
So this is just the first of three attacks攻击
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这只是在视频中出现的
05:44
that occurred发生 in that scene现场.
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三次袭击中的第一次
05:46
CACA: So, I mean, 11 people died死亡 in that attack攻击, right,
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CA:我知道,11个人在这此空袭中丧生
05:48
including包含 two Reuters路透社 employees雇员?
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包括两名路透社职员,是吧
05:50
JAJA: Yeah. Two Reuters路透社 employees雇员,
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JA:是的,包括两名路透社职员
05:52
two young年轻 children孩子 were wounded负伤.
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还有两名儿童受伤
05:55
There were between之间 18 and 26 people killed杀害 all together一起.
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总共有18到26个人丧生
05:58
CACA: And releasing释放 this caused造成
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CA:这段视频的公布
06:00
widespread广泛 outrage暴行.
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引起了广泛的愤慨
06:02
What was the key element元件 of this
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你认为引起这些愤怒情绪的
06:04
that actually其实 caused造成 the outrage暴行, do you think?
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关键因素是什么?
06:07
JAJA: I don't know. I guess猜测 people can see
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我不知道。我猜人们能看出
06:09
the gross disparity差距 in force.
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军队中的明显差异
06:12
You have guys walking步行 in a relaxed轻松 way down the street,
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有些人很放松地在街上巡视
06:14
and then an Apache阿帕奇 helicopter直升机 sitting坐在 up at one kilometer公里
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有些人坐在角落的阿帕奇直升机里
06:17
firing射击 30-millimeter-毫米 cannon大炮 shells炮弹
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发射30毫米的子弹
06:19
on everyone大家 --
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扫射所有人
06:21
looking for any excuse借口 to do so --
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然后为自己的做法找借口
06:24
and killing谋杀 people rescuing营救 the wounded负伤.
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杀掉那些拯救伤员的人
06:26
And there was two journalists记者 involved参与 that clearly明确地 weren't insurgents叛乱分子
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两个牵涉其中的记者明显不是叛乱者
06:29
because that's their full-time全职 job工作.
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因为记者才是他们的工作
06:33
CACA: I mean, there's been this U.S. intelligence情报 analyst分析人士,
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CA:接着有位美国的情报分析人员
06:36
Bradley布拉德利 Manning曼宁, arrested被捕,
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叫Bradley Manning,被捕
06:38
and it's alleged所谓的 that he confessed供认不讳 in a chat room房间
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据称他在审讯室里承认
06:41
to have leaked泄露 this video视频 to you,
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曾向你泄露了这段视频
06:44
along沿 with 280,000
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以及28万份
06:46
classified分类 U.S. embassy大使馆 cables电缆.
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美国大使馆机密电报
06:48
I mean, did he?
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是吗?
06:51
JAJA: We have denied否认 receiving接收 those cables电缆.
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JA:恩,我们曾否认收到了这些电报
06:53
He has been charged带电,
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他已经被起诉
06:55
about five days ago,
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就在5天前
06:57
with obtaining获得 150,000 cables电缆
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被控取得15万电报
07:00
and releasing释放 50.
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并且公布了50条
07:02
Now, we had released发布,
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目前,我们公布了
07:05
early in the year,
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今年年初的一条
07:07
a cable电缆 from the Reykjavik雷克雅未克 U.S. embassy大使馆,
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来自雷克雅未克(冰岛首都)美国大使馆的电报
07:11
but this is not necessarily一定 connected连接的.
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但这条并不相关
07:13
I mean, I was a known已知 visitor游客 of that embassy大使馆.
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我是说,我是这个大使馆的熟客
07:15
CACA: I mean, if you did receive接收 thousands数千
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CA:我是说,如果你们确实收到了成千上万
07:17
of U.S. embassy大使馆 diplomatic外交 cables电缆 ...
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美国大使馆的外交电报……
07:20
JAJA: We would have released发布 them. (CACA: You would?)
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JA:那我们应该已经公布出去了(CA:你真的会这样做?)
07:22
JAJA: Yeah. (CACA: Because?)
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JA:是的(CA:原因是?)
07:25
JAJA: Well, because these sort分类 of things
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JA:因为这些东西
07:27
reveal揭示 what the true真正 state
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揭露了什么是真实的
07:30
of, say,
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恩,例如
07:32
Arab阿拉伯 governments政府 are like,
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阿拉伯政府的样子
07:34
the true真正 human-rights人权 abuses滥用 in those governments政府.
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在这些政府中漠视人权的真相
07:37
If you look at declassified解密 cables电缆,
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所以应该这样看待这些机密电报
07:39
that's the sort分类 of material材料 that's there.
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以及存在的相关资料
07:41
CACA: So let's talk a little more broadly宽广地 about this.
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CA:让我们谈得概括一些
07:43
I mean, in general一般, what's your philosophy哲学?
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概括来讲,你的人生哲学是什么?
07:45
Why is it right
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为什么鼓励泄露机密信息
07:47
to encourage鼓励 leaking泄漏 of secret秘密 information信息?
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对你来说是正确的事?
07:51
JAJA: Well, there's a question as to what sort分类 of information信息 is important重要 in the world世界,
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JA:这个问题涉及到什么样的信息对于这个世界是重要的
07:54
what sort分类 of information信息
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什么样的信息
07:56
can achieve实现 reform改革.
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能够推动改革
07:58
And there's a lot of information信息.
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世界上有各种信息
08:00
So information信息 that organizations组织
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所以那些组织机构
08:02
are spending开支 economic经济 effort功夫 into concealing隐瞒,
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花钱想要隐瞒的信息
08:05
that's a really good signal信号
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这是个好的征兆
08:07
that when the information信息 gets得到 out,
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即当这些信息泄露出去后
08:09
there's a hope希望 of it doing some good --
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会产生有益的后果
08:11
because the organizations组织 that know it best最好,
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因为这些机构知道得太多
08:13
that know it from the inside out,
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彻头彻尾
08:15
are spending开支 work to conceal隐藏 it.
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而他们在试图隐藏消息
08:18
And that's what we've我们已经 found发现 in practice实践,
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这是我们的经验之谈
08:20
and that's what the history历史 of journalism新闻学 is.
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而这也是新闻的历史之鉴
08:23
CACA: But are there risks风险 with that,
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CA:但其中会不会有风险
08:26
either to the individuals个人 concerned关心
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无论对相关个人
08:29
or indeed确实 to society社会 at large,
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还是对整个社会来讲
08:31
where leaking泄漏 can actually其实 have
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这样的泄密会不会导致
08:33
an unintended意外 consequence后果?
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预料之外的后果?
08:35
JAJA: Not that we have seen看到 with anything we have released发布.
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就目前我们所公布的材料而已还没有遇到过
08:37
I mean, we have a harm危害 immunization免疫接种 policy政策.
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我的意思是,我们有一套危害预防政策
08:39
We have a way of dealing交易 with information信息
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我们有一整套处理
08:41
that has sort分类 of personal个人 --
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涉及个人——
08:43
personally亲自 identifying识别 information信息 in it.
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个人身份相关信息的方法
08:46
But there are legitimate合法 secrets秘密 --
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但确实存在一些合法的机密
08:49
you know, your records记录 with your doctor医生;
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比如,你的医疗记录
08:52
that's a legitimate合法 secret秘密 --
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这就是一个合法的机密
08:54
but we deal合同 with whistleblowers举报人 that are coming未来 forward前锋
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但是与我们交流的告密者
08:56
that are really sort分类 of well-motivated良好的动机.
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他们确实有着好的动机
08:59
CACA: So they are well-motivated良好的动机.
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CA:所以你说他们的动机是善意的
09:01
And what would you say to, for example,
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那你又怎么向其他人解释,比如说
09:03
the, you know, the parent of someone有人
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你知道的,某些父母
09:06
whose谁的 son儿子 is out serving服务 the U.S. military军事,
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他们的儿子在美国军队服役
09:09
and he says, "You know what,
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他们会说,你知道吗,
09:11
you've put up something that someone有人 had an incentive激励 to put out.
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你揭露的东西表明你动机不纯
09:13
It shows节目 a U.S. soldier士兵 laughing
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因为它展示了美国大兵嘲笑
09:15
at people dying垂死.
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那些濒死的人
09:17
That gives the impression印象, has given特定 the impression印象,
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这向全世界成千上万的人
09:19
to millions百万 of people around the world世界
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留下了一个不好的印象
09:21
that U.S. soldiers士兵 are inhuman不人道 people.
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那就是美国大兵是没有人性的一群人
09:23
Actually其实, they're not. My son儿子 isn't. How dare you?"
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而实际上他们并不是,至少我儿子不是,所以你怎么敢这么做?
09:25
What would you say to that?
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你对这样的父母怎么解释?
09:27
JAJA: Yeah, we do get a lot of that.
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JA:没错,我们确实得到了这样的反馈
09:29
But remember记得, the people in Baghdad巴格达,
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但请记住,在巴格达的人们
09:31
the people in Iraq伊拉克, the people in Afghanistan阿富汗 --
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在伊拉克和阿富汗的人们
09:34
they don't need to see the video视频;
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他们并不需要看到这段视频
09:36
they see it every一切 day.
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这样的事每天都在现实生活中上演
09:38
So it's not going to change更改 their opinion意见. It's not going to change更改 their perception知觉.
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所以这并不能改变他们的意见和想法
09:41
That's what they see every一切 day.
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这就是他们每天所看到的
09:43
It will change更改 the perception知觉 and opinion意见
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它将会改变那些为这场战争买单的
09:46
of the people who are paying付款 for it all,
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人们的观念和想法
09:48
and that's our hope希望.
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而这正是我们的希望
09:51
CACA: So you found发现 a way to shine闪耀 light
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CA:所以你是在试图揭露
09:54
into what you see
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你所认为的
09:57
as these sort分类 of dark黑暗 secrets秘密 in companies公司 and in government政府.
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那些公司和政府所隐藏的事实真相
10:01
Light is good.
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真相是好的
10:03
But do you see any irony讽刺 in the fact事实 that,
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但你是否发现了其中矛盾的地方,实际上
10:05
in order订购 for you to shine闪耀 that light,
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为了揭露真相
10:07
you have to, yourself你自己,
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你自己却不得不
10:09
create创建 secrecy保密 around your sources来源?
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将你的消息来源隐藏起来?
10:12
JAJA: Not really. I mean, we don't have
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JA:并不尽然。我是说,就目前而言
10:15
any WikiLeaks维基解密 dissidents持不同政见者 yet然而.
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我们并没有任何“维基揭密”的反对者
10:19
We don't have sources来源 who are dissidents持不同政见者 on other sources来源.
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并没有一个消息来源是另一个消息来源的反对者
10:23
Should they come forward前锋, that would be a tricky狡猾 situation情况 for us,
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如果他们真的出现,对我们来说才是棘手的情况
10:26
but we're presumably想必 acting演戏 in such这样 a way
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可能我们的角色
10:29
that people feel
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让人们感觉
10:31
morally道德 compelled被迫
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道义上的责任
10:33
to continue继续 our mission任务, not to screw it up.
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来继续我们的行为,而不是搞砸它
10:37
CACA: I'd actually其实 be interested有兴趣, just based基于 on what we've我们已经 heard听说 so far --
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CA:我确实非常感兴趣,就目前我们听到的而言
10:40
I'm curious好奇 as to the opinion意见 in the TEDTED audience听众.
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我对TED观众的意见很感兴趣
10:45
You know, there might威力 be a couple一对 of views意见
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对于“维基揭密”以及Julian本人
10:47
of WikiLeaks维基解密 and of Julian朱利安.
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可能会有很多不同意见
10:49
You know, hero英雄 -- people's人们 hero英雄 --
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比如,英雄—人民的英雄—
10:52
bringing使 this important重要 light.
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揭露关键真相
10:55
Dangerous危险 troublemaker麻烦制造者.
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危险的麻烦制造者
10:58
Who's谁是 got the hero英雄 view视图?
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谁认为他是英雄?
11:02
Who's谁是 got the dangerous危险 troublemaker麻烦制造者 view视图?
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谁认为他是个大麻烦?
11:06
JAJA: Oh, come on. There must必须 be some.
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JA:噢拜托,肯定有人这么想
11:09
CACA: It's a soft柔软的 crowd人群, Julian朱利安, a soft柔软的 crowd人群.
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CA:他们心肠软,Julian
11:11
We have to try better. Let's show显示 them another另一个 example.
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我们再来试一试。再给大家一个例子
11:13
Now here's这里的 something that you haven't没有 yet然而 leaked泄露,
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这份资料你还没有泄露过
11:16
but I think for TEDTED you are.
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将在TED上首次披露
11:19
I mean it's an intriguing奇妙 story故事 that's just happened发生, right?
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这是个相当引人入胜的故事,刚发生,对吧?
11:21
What is this?
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这是什么故事?
11:23
JAJA: So this is a sample样品 of what we do
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JA:这只是我们每天所做事情的
11:25
sort分类 of every一切 day.
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其中一个例子
11:27
So late晚了 last year -- in November十一月 last year --
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去年年末—去年11月—
11:30
there was a series系列 of well blowouts井喷
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发生了一系列的油井泄露事件
11:32
in Albania阿尔巴尼亚,
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在阿尔巴尼亚
11:34
like the well blowout吹熄 in the Gulf海湾 of Mexico墨西哥,
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类似墨西哥湾的油井泄露
11:37
but not quite相当 as big.
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只是没有那么大规模
11:39
And we got a report报告 --
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我们得到了一份报告
11:42
a sort分类 of engineering工程 analysis分析 into what happened发生 --
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一份所谓对泄露的机械分析
11:45
saying that, in fact事实, security安全 guards卫士
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阐明,其实
11:48
from some rival对手, various各个 competing竞争 oil firms公司
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一些来自竞争对手石油公司的保全人员
11:51
had, in fact事实, parked trucks卡车 there and blown them up.
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蓄意引起爆炸
11:55
And part部分 of the Albanian阿尔巴尼亚人 government政府 was in this, etc等等., etc等等.
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阿尔巴尼亚政府也有份参与,等等
11:59
And the engineering工程 report报告
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这份机械报告
12:00
had nothing on the top最佳 of it,
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并没具体说明细节
12:02
so it was an extremely非常 difficult document文件 for us.
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对我们来说这份文件很有难度
12:04
We couldn't不能 verify校验 it because we didn't know
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我们不能证实这个消息
12:06
who wrote it and knew知道 what it was about.
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因为我们不知道谁写的,涉及些什么
12:08
So we were kind of skeptical怀疑的 that maybe it was
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所以我们怀疑,也许
12:10
a competing竞争 oil firm公司 just sort分类 of playing播放 the issue问题 up.
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这是竞争对手的石油公司从中作梗
12:12
So under that basis基础, we put it out and said,
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在这样的条件下,我们发布了这份文件并声明
12:14
"Look, we're skeptical怀疑的 about this thing.
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“我们对此事表示怀疑,
12:16
We don't know, but what can we do?
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我们并不知道真相,也无计可施
12:18
The material材料 looks容貌 good, it feels感觉 right,
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这份材料看起来揭露了些真相
12:20
but we just can't verify校验 it."
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但是我们没法证实。”
12:22
And we then got a letter
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然后我们收到了一封信
12:25
just this week
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就在这周
12:28
from the company公司 who wrote it,
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信来自写这份报告的公司
12:31
wanting希望 to track跟踪 down the source资源 --
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他们想追踪消息来源
12:34
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
12:38
saying, "Hey, we want to track跟踪 down the source资源."
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他们说“嘿,我们想找到消息来源”
12:41
And we were like, "Oh, tell us more.
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而我们的反应是,“再跟我们说一点
12:43
What document文件 is it, precisely恰恰, you're talking about?
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你说的究竟是哪个文件?
12:46
Can you show显示 that you had legal法律 authority权威 over that document文件?
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你能证明你们对这份文件有法律权限吗?
12:49
Is it really yours你的?"
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这真的与你们有关吗?”
12:51
So they sent发送 us this screen屏幕 shot射击
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所以他们给我们发来了这个截屏
12:54
with the author作者
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包含作者
12:56
in the Microsoft微软 Word IDID.
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和微软文字处理软件的标题
13:01
Yeah.
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没错
13:03
(Applause掌声)
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(鼓掌)
13:08
That's happened发生 quite相当 a lot though虽然.
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这样的情况经常发生
13:10
This is like one of our methods方法
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这是我们的方法之一
13:12
of identifying识别, of verifying验证, what a material材料 is,
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来识别,证实这是怎样的材料
13:15
is to try and get these guys to write letters.
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来试着让更多的人给我们写信
13:17
CACA: Yeah. Have you had information信息
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CA:是吗。那你们有没有收到
13:20
from inside BPBP?
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来自英国石油公司内部的消息?
13:22
JAJA: Yeah, we have a lot, but I mean, at the moment时刻,
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JA:确实有,而且不少。但目前
13:25
we are undergoing经历 a sort分类 of serious严重 fundraising筹款 and engineering工程 effort功夫.
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我们正在进行一系列的资金筹集和技术改良工作
13:28
So our publication出版物 rate
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所以我们发布的信息量
13:30
over the past过去 few少数 months个月
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在过去的几个月里
13:32
has been sort分类 of minimized最小化
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大大减少了
13:34
while we're re-engineering重新设计 our back systems系统
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我们利用这段时间更新系统
13:37
for the phenomenal非凡的 public上市 interest利益 that we have.
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以适应我们所受到的巨大的公众关注度
13:40
That's a problem问题.
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这是个问题
13:42
I mean, like any sort分类 of growing生长 startup启动 organization组织,
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我是说,正如任何处于起步阶段的机构一样
13:45
we are sort分类 of overwhelmed不堪重负
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我们的发展
13:47
by our growth发展,
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跟不上我们扩张的速度
13:49
and that means手段 we're getting得到 enormous巨大 quantity数量
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这意味着我们得到了越来越多的
13:51
of whistleblower举报人 disclosures披露
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告密者所揭露的
13:53
of a very high caliber口径
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非常高端的真相
13:55
but don't have enough足够 people to actually其实
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但是我们没有足够的人手
13:57
process处理 and vet兽医 this information信息.
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来处理和审查这些信息
13:59
CACA: So that's the key bottleneck瓶颈,
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CA:这就是瓶颈所在
14:01
basically基本上 journalistic新闻 volunteers志愿者
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主要在于处理信息的人手
14:03
and/or the funding资金 of journalistic新闻 salaries工资?
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和/或这些人手的工资?
14:06
JAJA: Yep是的. Yeah, and trusted信任 people.
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JA:是的,还有可靠的人手
14:08
I mean, we're an organization组织
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我的意思是,我们是一个组织
14:10
that is hard to grow增长 very quickly很快
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但要迅速扩张是很困难的
14:12
because of the sort分类 of material材料 we deal合同 with,
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这是由我们所处理的材料决定的
14:14
so we have to restructure重组
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所以我们必须重组
14:17
in order订购 to have people
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以求获得更多线人
14:19
who will deal合同 with the highest最高 national国民 security安全 stuff东东,
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尤其是涉及高级国家机密的人员
14:22
and then lower降低 security安全 cases.
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以降低安全级别
14:24
CACA: So help us understand理解 a bit about you personally亲自
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CA:让我们来更多的了解下你个人
14:27
and how you came来了 to do this.
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以及你为什么开始做这件事
14:29
And I think I read that as a kid孩子
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我记得我看到过,你小的时候
14:31
you went to 37 different不同 schools学校.
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一共去过37个学校上学
14:34
Can that be right?
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这是真的吗?
14:36
JAJA: Well, my parents父母 were in the movie电影 business商业
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JA: 这个,我父母从事电影业
14:39
and then on the run from a cult礼拜,
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然后叛离异教
14:41
so the combination组合 between之间 the two ...
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所以二者结合...
14:43
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
14:47
CACA: I mean, a psychologist心理学家 might威力 say
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CA:我想,心理学家可能会说
14:49
that's a recipe食谱 for breeding配种 paranoia偏执.
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这真是产生偏执狂的绝佳条件啊
14:52
JAJA: What, the movie电影 business商业?
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JA: 什么?电影业吗?
14:54
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
14:57
(Applause掌声)
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(掌声)
15:00
CACA: And you were also -- I mean,
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CA:你也是——
15:02
you were also a hacker黑客 at an early age年龄
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你年轻的时候也是个黑客
15:04
and ran into the authorities当局 early on.
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开始的时候侵入权威网站
15:07
JAJA: Well, I was a journalist记者.
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JA:我那时是个记者
15:10
You know, I was a very young年轻 journalist记者 activist活动家 at an early age年龄.
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我是个非常年轻的记者和激进分子
15:12
I wrote a magazine杂志,
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我为杂志写专栏
15:14
was prosecuted起诉 for it when I was a teenager青少年.
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而由此在青少年时代就遭到起诉
15:17
So you have to be careful小心 with hacker黑客.
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所以对黑客这个行为要非常谨慎
15:19
I mean there's like -- there's a method方法
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我是说这是种非常手段
15:21
that can be deployed部署 for various各个 things.
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有不同的目的加以利用
15:23
Unfortunately不幸, at the moment时刻,
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不幸的是,现阶段
15:25
it's mostly大多 deployed部署 by the Russian俄语 mafia黑手党
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它主要被俄罗斯黑手党用来
15:27
in order订购 to steal your grandmother's祖母 bank银行 accounts账户.
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窃取个人银行账户
15:29
So this phrase短语 is not,
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所以现阶段
15:32
not as nice不错 as it used to be.
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情况并不如以前的好
15:34
CACA: Yeah, well, I certainly当然 don't think
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CA:是的,但我当然不认为
15:36
you're stealing偷窃行为 anyone's任何人的 grandmother's祖母 bank银行 account帐户,
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你会偷任何人的账号
15:39
but what about
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但是什么是
15:41
your core核心 values?
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你的核心价值观呢?
15:43
Can you give us a sense of what they are
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你能向我们描述一下
15:46
and maybe some incident事件 in your life
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或者说明你人生中的何种变故
15:48
that helped帮助 determine确定 them?
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使你产生了这样的价值观呢?
15:53
JAJA: I'm not sure about the incident事件.
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JA:我并不确定所谓的人生变故
15:55
But the core核心 values:
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但关于我的核心价值观
15:58
well, capable, generous慷慨 men男人
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我认为,宅心仁厚的人们
16:01
do not create创建 victims受害者;
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不会直接制造受害者
16:03
they nurture培育 victims受害者.
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他们却能影响受害者
16:05
And that's something from my father父亲
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这个事实是我的父亲
16:07
and something from other capable, generous慷慨 men男人
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以及其他一些我生命中出现的宅心仁厚的人
16:10
that have been in my life.
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让我感受到的
16:13
CACA: Capable, generous慷慨 men男人 do not create创建 victims受害者;
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CA:宅心仁厚的人们并不直接制造受害者
16:15
they nurture培育 victims受害者?
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却能影响受害者?
16:17
JAJA: Yeah. And you know,
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JA:是的,你知道
16:19
I'm a combative好斗 person,
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我是个好斗的人
16:23
so I'm not actually其实 so big on the nurture培育,
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我并不是个成长中的大人物
16:25
but some way --
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但某种程度上讲——
16:28
there is another另一个 way of nurturing培育 victims受害者,
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有另一种方式能影响受害者
16:31
which哪一个 is to police警察 perpetrators肇事者
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那就是监督罪犯的
16:34
of crime犯罪.
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犯罪行为
16:36
And so that is something
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而这个认识
16:38
that has been in my character字符
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已经成为我性格的一部分
16:40
for a long time.
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持续很长时间
16:42
CACA: So just tell us, very quickly很快 in the last minute分钟, the story故事:
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CA:现在,趁着最后的时间,给我们讲下这个故事
16:45
what happened发生 in Iceland冰岛?
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在冰岛发生了什么事?
16:48
You basically基本上 published发表 something there,
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你在那里发布了些信息
16:51
ran into trouble麻烦 with a bank银行,
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在银行那儿遇到些麻烦
16:54
then the news新闻 service服务 there
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然后那里的新闻机构
16:56
was injunctedinjuncted from running赛跑 the story故事.
402
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被禁止报道此事
16:59
Instead代替, they publicized公示 your side.
403
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而他们却引起了公众对你的注意
17:01
That made制作 you very high-profile高调 in Iceland冰岛. What happened发生 next下一个?
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这使得你在冰岛非常高调。然后呢?
17:04
JAJA: Yeah, this is a great case案件, you know.
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JA:是的,这是个很好的例子
17:06
Iceland冰岛 went through通过 this financial金融 crisis危机.
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冰岛度过了这次的金融危机
17:08
It was the hardest最难 hit击中 of any country国家 in the world世界.
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2000
遭受到了比任何国家都更严重的打击
17:10
Its banking银行业 sector扇形 was 10 times the GDPGDP
408
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其银行业收入
17:12
of the rest休息 of the economy经济.
409
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是其他行业GDP收入的10倍
17:14
Anyway无论如何, so we release发布 this report报告
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长话短说,我们公布了这份报告
17:17
in July七月 last year.
411
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在去年的7月
17:20
And the national国民 TV电视 station was injunctedinjuncted
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在直播前的5分钟
17:22
five minutes分钟 before it went on air空气,
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国家电视台禁止播放这条消息
17:24
like out of a movie电影: injunction禁令 landed登陆 on the news新闻 desk,
414
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就像电影里的情节,禁令从天而降
17:26
and the news新闻 reader读者 was like,
415
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新闻播报员措手不及
17:28
"This has never happened发生 before. What do we do?"
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“这件事从未发生过,我们该怎么办”
17:30
Well, we just show显示 the website网站 instead代替,
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于是,我们一直显示我们的网页
17:32
for all that time, as a filler填料,
418
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填充这段新闻空白
17:35
and we became成为 very famous著名 in Iceland冰岛,
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于是我们在冰岛变得非常有名
17:37
went to Iceland冰岛 and spoke about this issue问题.
420
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我去了冰岛说明这个事件
17:40
And there was a feeling感觉 in the community社区
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在这个国家当时有种感觉
17:42
that that should never happen发生 again,
422
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这件事不应该再次发生
17:44
and as a result结果,
423
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所以
17:46
working加工 with Icelandic冰岛的 politicians政治家
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我们同冰岛的政治家
17:48
and some other international国际 legal法律 experts专家,
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以及其他一些国际法律专家合作
17:50
we put together一起 a new sort分类 of
426
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我们拟定了一份新的
17:52
package of legislation立法 for Iceland冰岛
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适合于冰岛的法律条文
17:55
to sort分类 of become成为 an offshore海上 haven避风港
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这成为了冰岛新闻自由的
17:58
for the free自由 press,
429
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一个避风港
18:01
with the strongest最强 journalistic新闻 protections保护 in the world世界,
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并带来了世界上最强硬的一次记者游行示威
18:04
with a new Nobel诺贝尔 Prize
431
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2000
以及一个奖励自由言论的
18:06
for freedom自由 of speech言语.
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诺贝尔奖
18:08
Iceland's冰岛 a Nordic北欧 country国家,
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冰岛是一个日耳曼国家
18:10
so, like Norway挪威, it's able能够 to tap龙头 into the system系统.
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所以,就像挪威一样,它能将这些融入国家系统
18:13
And just a month ago,
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就在一个月前
18:15
this was passed通过 by the Icelandic冰岛的 parliament议会 unanimously一致.
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这项法案在冰岛议会获得一致通过
18:18
CACA: Wow.
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CA:噢!
18:20
(Applause掌声)
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(鼓掌)
18:26
Last question, Julian朱利安.
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最后一个问题,Julian
18:28
When you think of the future未来 then,
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当你展望未来
18:30
do you think it's more likely容易 to be
441
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你觉得未来更倾向于发生
18:32
Big Brother哥哥 exerting发挥 more control控制,
442
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老大哥(出自小说"1984",指无处不在的监视者)施加更多的控制
18:34
more secrecy保密,
443
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拥有更多秘密
18:36
or us watching观看
444
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还是我们监视
18:38
Big Brother哥哥,
445
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老大哥的行为
18:40
or it's just all to be played发挥 for either way?
446
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或者为双方服务?
18:43
JAJA: I'm not sure which哪一个 way it's going to go.
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JA:我不清楚会按照何种方式
18:45
I mean, there's enormous巨大 pressures压力
448
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我们面临很大压力
18:47
to harmonize freedom自由 of speech言语 legislation立法
449
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要使言论自由的条例
18:50
and transparency透明度 legislation立法 around the world世界 --
450
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和世界范围内的司法透明相协调
18:53
within the E.U.,
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不仅在欧盟
18:55
between之间 China中国 and the United联合的 States状态.
452
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也要在中国和美国
18:57
Which哪一个 way is it going to go? It's hard to see.
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到底会以何种方式进行?这很难说
19:00
That's why it's a very interesting有趣 time to be in --
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所以这个时期才会让人非常有兴趣
19:02
because with just a little bit of effort功夫,
455
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因为只需要一点努力
19:04
we can shift转移 it one way or the other.
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我们就能决定其方向
19:07
CACA: Well, it looks容貌 like I'm reflecting反映 the audience's观众的 opinion意见
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CA:好了,看起来我要来传达一下观众的意见
19:10
to say, Julian朱利安, be careful小心,
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Julian,小心点
19:12
and all power功率 to you.
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希望你得偿所愿
19:14
JAJA: Thank you, Chris克里斯. (CACA: Thank you.)
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JA:谢谢你,Chris.(CA:谢谢)
19:16
(Applause掌声)
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(掌声)
Translated by Vivian Lee
Reviewed by xiang fei

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Julian Assange - Whistleblower
Internet activist Julian Assange serves as spokesperson for WikiLeaks, a controversial, volunteer-driven website that publishes and comments on leaked documents alleging government and corporate misconduct.

Why you should listen

You could say Australian-born Julian Assange has swapped his long-time interest in network security flaws for the far-more-suspect flaws of even bigger targets: governments and corporations. Since his early 20s, he has been using network technology to prod and probe the vulnerable edges of administrative systems, but though he was a computing hobbyist first (in 1991 he was the target of hacking charges after he accessed the computers of an Australian telecom), he's now taken off his "white hat" and launched a career as one of the world's most visible human-rights activists.

He calls himself "editor in chief." He travels the globe as its spokesperson. Yet Assange's part in WikiLeaks is clearly dicier than that: he's become the face of creature that, simply, many powerful organizations would rather see the world rid of. His Wikipedia entry says he is "constantly on the move," and some speculate that his role in publishing decrypted US military video has put him in personal danger. A controversial figure, pundits debate whether his work is reckless and does more harm than good. Amnesty International recognized him with an International Media Award in 2009.

Assange studied physics and mathematics at the University of Melbourne. He wrote Strobe, the first free and open-source port scanner, and contributed to the book Underground: Tales of Hacking, Madness and Obsession on the Electronic Frontier.

More profile about the speaker
Julian Assange | Speaker | TED.com