ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jason Fried - Software entrepreneur
Jason Fried thinks deeply about collaboration, productivity and the nature of work. He's the co-founder of 37signals, makers of Basecamp and other web-based collaboration tools, and co-author of "Rework."

Why you should listen

Jason Fried is the co-founder and president of 37signals , a Chicago-based company that builds web-based productivity tools that, in their words, "do less than the competition -- intentionally." 37signals' simple but powerful collaboration tools include Basecamp, Highrise, Backpack, Campfire, Ta-da List, and Writeboard. 37signals also developed and open-sourced the Ruby on Rails programming framework.

Fried is the co-author, with David Heinemeier Hansson, of the book Rework, about new ways to conceptualize working and creating. Salon's Scott Rosenberg called it "a minimalist manifesto that's profoundly practical. In a world where we all keep getting asked to do more with less, the authors show us how to do less and create more."

More profile about the speaker
Jason Fried | Speaker | TED.com
TEDxMidwest

Jason Fried: Why work doesn't happen at work

Jason Fried談為什麼上班時工作做不完

Filmed:
5,877,382 views

Jason Fried對於工作有個極端的理論:辦公室根本不是工作的場所。在TEDxMidwest會議上,他提出了幾個辦公室的問題(他稱之為M&Ms),並提出幾個建議,可以改善這些問題。
- Software entrepreneur
Jason Fried thinks deeply about collaboration, productivity and the nature of work. He's the co-founder of 37signals, makers of Basecamp and other web-based collaboration tools, and co-author of "Rework." Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:15
So I'm going to talk about work,
0
0
2000
我要來談工作
00:17
specifically特別 why people can't seem似乎
1
2000
2000
精確的說,為什麼上班時
00:19
to get work doneDONE at work,
2
4000
2000
沒辦法完成工作
00:21
which哪一個 is a problem問題 we all kind of have.
3
6000
3000
這情形大家應該都遇過
00:24
But let's, sort分類 of, start開始 at the beginning開始.
4
9000
2000
我們從頭開始
00:26
So we have companies公司 and non-profits非營利性組織 and charities慈善機構
5
11000
3000
很多公司、非營利企業、慈善機構
00:29
and all these groups
6
14000
2000
等等公司行號
00:31
that have employees僱員
7
16000
2000
都有員工
00:33
or volunteers志願者 of some sort分類.
8
18000
2000
或是志工之類的
00:35
And they expect期望 these people who work for them
9
20000
3000
主管們會希望員工
00:38
to do great work --
10
23000
2000
好好工作
00:40
I would hope希望, at least最小.
11
25000
2000
至少努力工作
00:42
At least最小 good work, hopefully希望, at least最小 it's good work --
12
27000
2000
這是基本要求,能拿出優秀的成績
00:44
hopefully希望 great work.
13
29000
2000
是最好的
00:46
And so what they typically一般 do is they decide決定
14
31000
2000
所以他們通常會決定
00:48
that all these people need to come together一起 in one place地點
15
33000
2000
員工通通要到同一地點
00:50
to do that work.
16
35000
2000
上班工作
00:52
So a company公司, or a charity慈善機構, or an organization組織 of any kind,
17
37000
3000
所以公司行號、各大機構
00:55
they typically一般 -- unless除非 you're working加工 in Africa非洲,
18
40000
2000
除非你住非洲,會比較幸運
00:57
if you're really lucky幸運 to do that --
19
42000
2000
否則通常都會被要求
00:59
most people have to go to an office辦公室 every一切 day.
20
44000
2000
每天進辦公室
01:01
And so these companies公司,
21
46000
2000
所以這些公司
01:03
they build建立 offices辦事處.
22
48000
2000
需要辦公室存在
01:05
They go out and they buy購買 a building建造, or they rent出租 a building建造,
23
50000
3000
用買的或租下辦公大樓
01:08
or they lease some space空間,
24
53000
2000
或是租個地方
01:10
and they fill the space空間 with stuff東東.
25
55000
3000
放滿東西,將就著用
01:13
They fill it with tables, or desks書桌,
26
58000
3000
辦公室放滿桌椅、
01:16
chairs椅子, computer電腦 equipment設備,
27
61000
2000
電腦設備、
01:18
software軟件,
28
63000
2000
軟體、
01:20
Internet互聯網 access訪問,
29
65000
2000
網路連線
01:22
maybe a fridge冰箱, maybe a few少數 other things,
30
67000
3000
或許加個冰箱等等東西
01:25
and they expect期望 their employees僱員, or their volunteers志願者,
31
70000
2000
老闆們希望員工,或志工們
01:27
to come to that location位置 every一切 day to do great work.
32
72000
3000
能每天上班,做出一番成果
01:30
It seems似乎 like it's perfectly完美 reasonable合理 to ask that.
33
75000
3000
聽起來是個合理要求
01:33
However然而, if you actually其實 talk to people
34
78000
2000
但如果你親自訪問這些人
01:35
and even question yourself你自己,
35
80000
2000
甚至問問自己
01:37
and you ask yourself你自己,
36
82000
2000
問自己:
01:39
where do you really want to go when you really need to get something doneDONE?
37
84000
3000
你真想把事情做好的時候,會去哪裡?
01:42
You'll你會 find out that people don't say
38
87000
2000
通常你會聽到的回答
01:44
what businesses企業 think they would say.
39
89000
2000
都不是這些公司們所想的
01:46
If you ask people the question: where do you really need to go
40
91000
2000
你如果問:你真想把事情做好的時候,
01:48
when you need to get something doneDONE?
41
93000
2000
會去哪裡?
01:50
Typically通常 you get three different不同 kinds of answers答案.
42
95000
2000
通常有三類答案
01:52
One is kind of a place地點 or a location位置 or a room房間.
43
97000
3000
第一:地點
01:55
Another另一個 one is a moving移動 object目的
44
100000
2000
第二:移動的物體
01:57
and a third第三 is a time.
45
102000
2000
第三:時間
01:59
So here's這裡的 some examples例子.
46
104000
2000
我舉例一下
02:01
When I ask people -- and I've been asking people this question for about 10 years年份 --
47
106000
3000
這問題我已經問十幾年了
02:04
I ask them, "Where do you go when you really need to get something doneDONE?"
48
109000
2000
我問:你想把事情做好的時候,會去哪裡?
02:06
I'll hear things like, the porch門廊, the deck甲板,
49
111000
3000
我得到的答案有:門廊、桌前、
02:09
the kitchen廚房.
50
114000
2000
廚房、
02:11
I'll hear things like an extra額外 room房間 in the house,
51
116000
2000
房子裡額外的小房間、
02:13
the basement地下室,
52
118000
2000
地下室、
02:15
the coffee咖啡 shop, the library圖書館.
53
120000
3000
咖啡店、圖書館
02:18
And then you'll你會 hear things like the train培養,
54
123000
3000
還有像是火車、
02:21
a plane平面, a car汽車 -- so, the commute改判.
55
126000
3000
飛機上、車裡,關於交通的答案
02:24
And then you'll你會 hear people say,
56
129000
2000
也有人回答
02:26
"Well, it doesn't really matter where I am,
57
131000
2000
「其實跟地點沒關係,」
02:28
as long as it's really early in the morning早上 or really late晚了 at night or on the weekends週末."
58
133000
3000
「只要是在清晨、深夜、週末的時候就可以」
02:31
You almost幾乎 never hear someone有人 say the office辦公室.
59
136000
3000
幾乎沒人講辦公室
02:34
But businesses企業 are spending開支 all this money on this place地點 called the office辦公室,
60
139000
3000
但公司花大錢設置辦公室
02:37
and they're making製造 people go to it all the time,
61
142000
2000
還要求大家一定要進辦公室
02:39
yet然而 people don't do work in the office辦公室.
62
144000
3000
但員工卻無法在辦公室內完成工作
02:42
What is that about?
63
147000
2000
搞什麼?
02:44
Why is that?
64
149000
2000
為什麼?
02:46
Why is that happening事件?
65
151000
3000
為什麼會這樣?
02:49
And what you find out is that, if you dig a little bit deeper更深,
66
154000
2000
如果你深究的話
02:51
you find out that people --
67
156000
2000
會發現
02:53
this is what happens發生 --
68
158000
2000
通常
02:55
people go to work,
69
160000
2000
大家上班時
02:57
and they're basically基本上 trading貿易 in their workday勞動日
70
162000
2000
一個工作天其實
02:59
for a series系列 of "work moments瞬間."
71
164000
2000
是分很多片段的
03:01
That's what happens發生 at the office辦公室.
72
166000
2000
這就是辦公室的情況
03:03
You don't have a workday勞動日 anymore. You have work moments瞬間.
73
168000
2000
已經不是工作「天」,而是工作「片刻」
03:05
It's like the front面前 door of the office辦公室 is like a CuisinartCuisinart將,
74
170000
3000
進辦公室好像走進榨汁機一樣
03:08
and you walk步行 in and your day is shredded切絲 to bits,
75
173000
2000
一天就這樣被榨成片段
03:10
because you have 15 minutes分鐘 here and 30 minutes分鐘 there,
76
175000
3000
這邊15分鐘,那邊30分鐘的拼湊
03:13
and then something else其他 happens發生 and you're pulled off your work,
77
178000
2000
常常有什麼事,就得分神去處理
03:15
and you've got to do something else其他, then you have 20 minutes分鐘, then it's lunch午餐.
78
180000
3000
跑去做別的事之後,再專心個20分鐘,就中餐時間了
03:18
Then you have something else其他 to do.
79
183000
2000
然後又有別的事要做,
03:20
Then you've got 15 minutes分鐘, and someone有人 pulls you aside在旁邊 and asks you this question,
80
185000
3000
再專心15分鐘,然後有人跑來問你的問題
03:23
and before you know it, it's 5 p.m.,
81
188000
3000
等你回神,就五點下班時間了
03:26
and you look back on the day,
82
191000
2000
然後回顧一整天
03:28
and you realize實現 that you didn't get anything doneDONE.
83
193000
2000
發現你根本什麼也沒做
03:30
I mean, we've我們已經 all been through通過 this.
84
195000
2000
我們應該都遇過這種情況
03:32
We probably大概 went through通過 it yesterday昨天,
85
197000
2000
也許昨天就是這樣
03:34
or the day before, or the day before that.
86
199000
2000
前天也是、大前天也是
03:36
You look back on your day, and you're like, I got nothing doneDONE today今天.
87
201000
3000
每天回顧,恍然發現什麼事也沒做
03:39
I was at work.
88
204000
2000
我進了辦公室
03:41
I satSAT at my desk. I used my expensive昂貴 computer電腦.
89
206000
3000
我坐在電腦前,打著昂貴電腦
03:44
I used the software軟件 they told me to use.
90
209000
2000
用著他們裝的軟體
03:46
I went to these meetings會議 I was asked to go to.
91
211000
3000
開上頭要我參加的會議
03:49
I did these conference會議 calls電話. I did all this stuff東東.
92
214000
2000
打打電話之類的事
03:51
But I didn't actually其實 do anything.
93
216000
3000
但其實什麼都沒做
03:54
I just did tasks任務.
94
219000
2000
我做「瑣事」而已
03:56
I didn't actually其實 get meaningful富有意義的 work doneDONE.
95
221000
2000
其實正經事都沒做
03:58
And what you find is that, especially特別 with creative創作的 people --
96
223000
3000
尤其你會發現,有創意的人--
04:01
designers設計師, programmers程序員,
97
226000
2000
設計師、程式設計師、
04:03
writers作家, engineers工程師,
98
228000
2000
作家、工程師、
04:05
thinkers思想家 --
99
230000
2000
工作必須思考的人
04:07
that people really need
100
232000
2000
都需要
04:09
long stretches舒展 of uninterrupted不斷 time to get something doneDONE.
101
234000
3000
連續、不被打擾的時間才能將事情做好
04:12
You cannot不能 ask somebody to be creative創作的 in 15 minutes分鐘
102
237000
3000
你不能要求一個人,用15分鐘時間想創意
04:15
and really think about a problem問題.
103
240000
2000
或想出辦法解決問題
04:17
You might威力 have a quick idea理念,
104
242000
2000
可能會有很快的一個想法
04:19
but to be in deep thought about a problem問題 and really consider考慮 a problem問題 carefully小心,
105
244000
3000
但真想要徹底想出解決方案
04:22
you need long stretches舒展 of uninterrupted不斷 time.
106
247000
3000
就一定需要長時間、不被打擾的時間
04:25
And even though雖然 the workday勞動日 is typically一般 eight hours小時,
107
250000
3000
正常一個工作天是八小時
04:28
how many許多 people here have ever had eight hours小時 to themselves他們自己 at the office辦公室?
108
253000
3000
你們有多少人在辦公室,八小時都是自己的時間?
04:31
How about seven hours小時?
109
256000
2000
七小時?
04:33
Six? Five? Four?
110
258000
3000
六?五?四?
04:36
When's當的 the last time you had three hours小時 to yourself你自己 at the office辦公室?
111
261000
3000
你什麼時候真的在辦公室獨處過完整3小時?
04:39
Two hours小時? One, maybe?
112
264000
2000
兩小時?或許一小時?
04:41
Very, very few少數 people actually其實 have
113
266000
2000
很少人在辦公室真的有
04:43
long stretches舒展 of uninterrupted不斷 time at an office辦公室.
114
268000
3000
長時間、不被打擾的時間
04:46
And this is why people choose選擇 to do work at home,
115
271000
3000
這就是為什麼大家選擇在家工作
04:49
or they might威力 go to the office辦公室,
116
274000
2000
他們也許可能會進辦公室
04:51
but they might威力 go to the office辦公室 really early in the day,
117
276000
2000
但都是在很早的時候
04:53
or late晚了 at night when no one's那些 around,
118
278000
2000
或是很晚,大家都離開時
04:55
or they stick around after everyone's大家的 left, or they go in on the weekends週末,
119
280000
3000
等到沒人,或是周末進辦公室
04:58
or they get work doneDONE on the plane平面,
120
283000
2000
又或是在飛機上把工作做完
05:00
or they get work doneDONE in the car汽車 or in the train培養
121
285000
2000
或是在車上、火車上
05:02
because there are no distractions分心.
122
287000
2000
因為這樣才不會被打擾
05:04
Now, there are different不同 kinds of distractions分心,
123
289000
2000
干擾有很多種
05:06
but there aren't the really bad kinds of distractions分心
124
291000
2000
但有些並非不好
05:08
that I'll talk about in just a minute分鐘.
125
293000
2000
我們等會兒再談
05:10
And this sort分類 of whole整個 phenomenon現象
126
295000
2000
這種短暫工作時刻的
05:12
of having short bursts連發 of time to get things doneDONE
127
297000
2000
整個現象
05:14
reminds提醒 me of another另一個 thing
128
299000
2000
讓我想到另一件事
05:16
that doesn't work when you're interrupted間斷,
129
301000
2000
當你做這件事的時候也不能被打擾
05:18
and that is sleep睡覺.
130
303000
2000
就是睡覺
05:20
I think that sleep睡覺 and work are very closely密切 related有關,
131
305000
2000
睡覺跟工作習習相關
05:22
and it's not just that you can work while you're sleeping睡眠
132
307000
2000
不是因為睡覺時無法工作
05:24
and you can sleep睡覺 while you're working加工.
133
309000
2000
工作時不能睡覺
05:26
That's not really what I mean.
134
311000
2000
我不是要講這個
05:28
I'm talking specifically特別 about the fact事實
135
313000
2000
我要講的是
05:30
that sleep睡覺 and work
136
315000
2000
睡覺和工作
05:32
are phased-based分階段為主,
137
317000
2000
都是階段性的
05:34
or stage-based舞台為基礎, events事件.
138
319000
2000
或稱做時期性的
05:37
So sleep睡覺 is about sleep睡覺 phases, or stages階段 --
139
322000
3000
所以睡覺也是很多階段、時期 --
05:40
some people call them different不同 things.
140
325000
2000
說法有很多種
05:42
There's five of them,
141
327000
2000
總共有五個階段
05:44
and in order訂購 to get to the really deep ones那些, the really meaningful富有意義的 ones那些,
142
329000
3000
為了進到最深沉的階段
05:47
you have to go through通過 the early ones那些.
143
332000
2000
就必須從最初那一階開始
05:49
And if you're interrupted間斷 while you're going through通過 the early ones那些 --
144
334000
2000
如果你第一階段就被打擾
05:51
if someone有人 bumps顛簸 you in bed,
145
336000
2000
可能有人翻身碰到你
05:53
or if there's a sound聲音, or whatever隨你 happens發生 --
146
338000
3000
或許是有什麼聲音之類的
05:56
you don't just pick up where you left off.
147
341000
2000
你沒辦法回到原本階段繼續睡
05:58
If you're interrupted間斷 and woken喚醒 up,
148
343000
2000
如果被打擾後醒來
06:00
you have to start開始 again.
149
345000
2000
就必須重頭開始
06:02
So you have to go back a few少數 phases and start開始 again.
150
347000
3000
就得回到前幾個階段重來
06:05
And what ends結束 up happening事件 -- sometimes有時 you might威力 have days like this
151
350000
2000
很常發生的情況是 -- 有時候你會發現
06:07
where you wake喚醒 up at eight in the morning早上, or seven in the morning早上,
152
352000
2000
當你八點起床,或七點起床
06:09
or whenever每當 you get up,
153
354000
2000
隨便幾點
06:11
and you're like, man, I didn't really sleep睡覺 very well.
154
356000
2000
起床後就想,天哪,我沒睡好
06:13
I did the sleep睡覺 thing -- I went to bed, I laid鋪設 down --
155
358000
3000
我有睡阿 -- 我爬上床、躺下
06:16
but I didn't really sleep睡覺.
156
361000
2000
但沒有真的睡著
06:18
People say you go to sleep睡覺,
157
363000
3000
我們說去睡覺
06:21
but you really don't go to sleep睡覺, you go towards sleep睡覺.
158
366000
2000
其實不是一倒下就睡著,而是進入夢鄉
06:23
It just takes a while. You've got to go through通過 these phases and stuff東東,
159
368000
3000
是需要時間的,一階一階慢慢來
06:26
and if you're interrupted間斷, you don't sleep睡覺 well.
160
371000
2000
如果被干擾,當然就睡不好
06:28
So how do we expect期望 -- does anyone任何人 here expect期望 someone有人 to sleep睡覺 well
161
373000
2000
整夜一直被打擾
06:30
if they're interrupted間斷 all night?
162
375000
2000
能睡的好嗎?
06:32
I don't think anyone任何人 would say yes.
163
377000
2000
應該不行吧
06:34
Why do we expect期望 people to work well
164
379000
2000
在辦公室裡不斷被打擾
06:36
if they're being存在 interrupted間斷 all day at the office辦公室?
165
381000
2000
是要怎麼把工作做好啊?
06:38
How can we possibly或者 expect期望 people to do their job工作
166
383000
3000
在辦公室裡一直被打擾
06:41
if they're going to the office辦公室 to be interrupted間斷?
167
386000
2000
要員工怎麼把事情做好?
06:43
That doesn't really seem似乎 like it makes品牌 a lot of sense to me.
168
388000
3000
對我來說,一點也不合理
06:46
So what are these interruptions中斷 that happen發生 at the office辦公室
169
391000
2000
那這些干擾只發生在辦公室
06:48
that don't happen發生 at other places地方?
170
393000
2000
其他地方不會發生嗎?
06:50
Because in other places地方, you can have interruptions中斷,
171
395000
2000
其他地方也是會有干擾
06:52
like, you can have the TV電視,
172
397000
2000
或許會跑去看電視
06:54
or you could go for a walk步行,
173
399000
2000
或是散個步
06:56
or there's a fridge冰箱 downstairs樓下,
174
401000
2000
到樓下冰箱拿個飲料
06:58
or you've got your own擁有 couch長椅, or whatever隨你 you want to do.
175
403000
3000
躺一下沙發等等
07:01
And if you talk to certain某些 managers經理,
176
406000
2000
如果你和一些主管談過
07:03
they'll他們會 tell you that they don't want their employees僱員 to work at home
177
408000
3000
他們會說,他們不喜歡員工在家工作的原因
07:06
because of these distractions分心.
178
411000
2000
是因為容易受干擾
07:08
They'll他們會 also say --
179
413000
2000
他們也說
07:10
sometimes有時 they'll他們會 also say,
180
415000
2000
偶爾會這樣說
07:12
"Well, if I can't see the person, how do I know they're working加工?"
181
417000
2000
"如果我看不到人影,怎麼知道他在工作?"
07:14
which哪一個 is ridiculous荒謬, of course課程, but that's one of the excuses藉口 that managers經理 give.
182
419000
3000
這理由很荒繆,但他們都用這藉口
07:17
And I'm one of these managers經理.
183
422000
2000
我也是經理
07:19
I understand理解. I know how this goes.
184
424000
2000
所以我懂
07:21
We all have to improve提高 on this sort分類 of thing.
185
426000
2000
但我們要改善這情形
07:23
But oftentimes通常情況下 they'll他們會 cite引用 distractions分心.
186
428000
2000
可是他們常會舉例
07:25
"I can't let someone有人 work at home.
187
430000
2000
"我不能讓員工在家工作"
07:27
They'll他們會 watch TV電視. They'll他們會 do this other thing."
188
432000
2000
"因為他們會看電視、做別的事"
07:29
It turns out that those aren't the things that are really distracting分心.
189
434000
3000
但其實這些讓你分心的事,並不是真的干擾
07:32
Because those are voluntary自主性 distractions分心.
190
437000
2000
因為這些干擾是自願性的
07:34
You decide決定 when you want to be distracted分心 by the TV電視.
191
439000
2000
你自己決定什麼時候看電視
07:36
You decide決定 when you want to turn something on.
192
441000
2000
開什麼、關什麼、用什麼
07:38
You decide決定 when you want to go downstairs樓下 or go for a walk步行.
193
443000
3000
決定什麼時候下樓、散步
07:41
At the office辦公室, most of the interruptions中斷 and distractions分心
194
446000
2000
而辦公室裡的大多數干擾
07:43
that really cause原因 people not to get work doneDONE
195
448000
2000
讓人們無法好好工作的
07:45
are involuntary非自願.
196
450000
2000
都是非自願的
07:47
So let's go through通過 a couple一對 of those.
197
452000
3000
我來解釋一下
07:50
Now, managers經理 and bosses老闆
198
455000
2000
所以,上司、老闆們
07:52
will often經常 have you think that the real真實 distractions分心 at work
199
457000
3000
常會告訴你,工作時真正會讓你分心的是
07:55
are things like FacebookFacebook的 and Twitter推特
200
460000
3000
Facebook和Twitter
07:58
and YouTubeYouTube的 and other websites網站,
201
463000
3000
還有Youtube等其他網站
08:01
and in fact事實, they'll他們會 go so far
202
466000
2000
他們甚至會完全禁止
08:03
as to actually其實 ban禁止 these sites網站 at work.
203
468000
2000
上班瀏覽這些網站
08:05
Some of you may可能 work at places地方 where you can't get to these certain某些 sites網站.
204
470000
3000
你們有些人的公司可能會擋某些網站
08:08
I mean, is this China中國? What the hell地獄 is going on here?
205
473000
3000
這是中國嗎? 搞什麼?
08:11
You can't go to a website網站 at work,
206
476000
2000
上班時候不能逛某些網站
08:13
and that's the problem問題, that's why people aren't getting得到 work doneDONE,
207
478000
2000
因為逛了之後員工會不想工作?
08:15
because they're going to FacebookFacebook的 and they're going to Twitter推特?
208
480000
2000
是因為他們玩Facebook或Twitter?
08:17
That's kind of ridiculous荒謬. It's a total decoy引誘.
209
482000
3000
大瞎了吧,根本是胡扯
08:22
And today's今天的 FacebookFacebook的 and Twitter推特 and YouTubeYouTube的,
210
487000
2000
今日的Facebook、Twitter、YouTube
08:24
these things are just modern-day現代 smoke抽煙 breaks休息.
211
489000
3000
等於是以前的抽菸時間而已
08:27
No one cared照顧 about letting出租 people take a smoke抽煙 break打破 for 15 minutes分鐘
212
492000
2000
十年前,上班時間溜出去15分鐘抽個菸
08:29
10 years年份 ago,
213
494000
2000
根本沒人管
08:31
so why does everyone大家 care關心 about someone有人 going to FacebookFacebook的 here and there,
214
496000
2000
現在為什麼偶爾上個Facebook、Twitter、YouTube
08:33
or Twitter推特 here and there, or YouTubeYouTube的 here and there?
215
498000
2000
就意見一大堆?
08:35
Those aren't the real真實 problems問題 in the office辦公室.
216
500000
3000
這些根本不是真正的問題
08:38
The real真實 problems問題 are what I like to call
217
503000
2000
真正的問題我稱做是
08:40
the M&Ms女士,
218
505000
2000
M&M's
08:42
the Managers經理 and the Meetings會議.
219
507000
2000
經理(managers)和會議(meetings)
08:44
Those are the real真實 problems問題 in the modern現代 office辦公室 today今天.
220
509000
3000
這才是現今辦公室裡最大的問題
08:47
And this is why things don't get doneDONE at work --
221
512000
3000
員工沒辦法順利完成工作
08:50
it's because of the M&Ms女士.
222
515000
2000
就是因為M&M's
08:52
Now what's interesting有趣 is,
223
517000
2000
有趣的事來了
08:54
if you listen to all the places地方 that people talk about doing work --
224
519000
3000
很多人說他們工作的地方--
08:57
like at home, or in a car汽車, or on a plane平面,
225
522000
2000
在家、車上、飛機上、
08:59
or late晚了 at night, or early in the morning早上 --
226
524000
2000
深夜、清晨
09:01
you don't find managers經理 and meetings會議.
227
526000
2000
通常都沒有經理和會議
09:03
You find a lot of other distractions分心, but you don't find managers經理 and meetings會議.
228
528000
3000
也許有很多其他干擾,但沒有經理和會議
09:06
So these are the things that you don't find elsewhere別處,
229
531000
3000
這兩樣其他地方沒有
09:09
but you do find at the office辦公室.
230
534000
3000
唯有辦公室裡會出現
09:12
And managers經理 are basically基本上 people
231
537000
2000
經理的工作基本上
09:14
whose誰的 job工作 it is to interrupt打斷 people.
232
539000
2000
就是去打擾別人
09:16
That's pretty漂亮 much what managers經理 are for. They're for interrupting中斷 people.
233
541000
3000
他們的工作大概就這樣,打擾別人
09:19
They don't really do the work,
234
544000
2000
沒有真正要做的事
09:21
so they have to make sure everyone大家 else其他 is doing the work, which哪一個 is an interruption中斷.
235
546000
3000
所以只好確保大家都在做事,變成干擾
09:24
And we have a lot of managers經理 in the world世界 now,
236
549000
2000
現在世上很多經理
09:26
and there's a lot of people in the world世界 now,
237
551000
2000
世界上也很多人
09:28
and there's a lot of interruptions中斷 in the world世界 now because of these managers經理.
238
553000
2000
因為這些經理,所以很多干擾
09:30
They have to check in: "Hey, how's如何的 it going?
239
555000
2000
他們很愛跑來「嘿,還好嗎?」
09:32
Show顯示 me what's up," and this sort分類 of thing
240
557000
2000
「報告你的進度」等等
09:34
and they keep interrupting中斷 you at the wrong錯誤 time,
241
559000
2000
而且都會在錯誤時機來打擾
09:36
while you're actually其實 trying to do something they're paying付款 you to do,
242
561000
3000
正當你要好好做正事時
09:39
they tend趨向 to interrupt打斷 you.
243
564000
2000
他們就會跑來煩你
09:41
That's kind of bad.
244
566000
2000
蠻糟的吧
09:43
But what's even worse更差 is the thing that managers經理 do most of all,
245
568000
3000
經理們會做的另一件更糟的事
09:46
which哪一個 is call meetings會議.
246
571000
2000
就是會議
09:48
And meetings會議 are just toxic有毒的,
247
573000
2000
會議根本就有毒
09:50
terrible可怕, poisonous有毒 things
248
575000
3000
很糟、劇毒的東西
09:53
during the day at work.
249
578000
2000
會在工作時毒死你
09:55
We all know this to be true真正,
250
580000
3000
我們心知肚明
09:58
and you would never see a spontaneous自發 meeting會議 called by employees僱員.
251
583000
2000
會議不會是員工隨意召開
10:00
It doesn't work that way.
252
585000
2000
不可能的
10:02
The manager經理 calls電話 the meeting會議
253
587000
2000
所以經理召開會議
10:04
so the employees僱員 can all come together一起,
254
589000
2000
讓員工聚在一起
10:06
and it's an incredibly令人難以置信 disruptive破壞性 thing to do to people --
255
591000
2000
然後無敵煩的事情發生了
10:08
is to say, "Hey look,
256
593000
2000
"嘿,聽著"
10:10
we're going to bring帶來 10 people together一起 right now and have a meeting會議.
257
595000
3000
"馬上找十個人來開會"
10:13
I don't care關心 what you're doing.
258
598000
2000
"我不管你在幹麻"
10:15
Just, you've got to stop doing what you're doing, so you can have this meeting會議."
259
600000
3000
"放下手邊工作開會就是了"
10:18
I mean, what are the chances機會 that all 10 people are ready準備 to stop?
260
603000
3000
有可能剛好十個人都有空開會嗎?
10:21
What if they're thinking思維 about something important重要?
261
606000
2000
如果他們在想重要的事呢?
10:23
What if they're doing important重要 work?
262
608000
2000
或者在做重要的事呢?
10:25
All of a sudden突然 you're telling告訴 them that they have to stop doing that
263
610000
2000
突然間你就叫他們停下手邊工作
10:27
to do something else其他.
264
612000
2000
改做其他事
10:29
So they go into a meeting會議 room房間, they get together一起,
265
614000
3000
被叫到會議室,坐下來
10:32
and they talk about stuff東東 that doesn't really matter usually平時.
266
617000
3000
討論無關緊要的事
10:35
Because meetings會議 aren't work.
267
620000
2000
開會是行不通的
10:37
Meetings會議 are places地方 to go to talk about things you're supposed應該 to be doing later後來.
268
622000
3000
開會通常都是要討論之後做的事
10:40
But meetings會議 also procreate生育.
269
625000
2000
不只如此,會議還會繁殖
10:42
So one meeting會議 tends趨向 to lead to another另一個 meeting會議
270
627000
2000
一個會開完再衍生出另一個會議
10:44
and tends趨向 to lead to another另一個 meeting會議.
271
629000
2000
然後沒完沒了
10:46
There's often經常 too many許多 people in the meetings會議,
272
631000
2000
而且開會的人多
10:48
and they're very, very expensive昂貴 to the organization組織.
273
633000
3000
對公司成本來說是個損失
10:51
Companies公司 often經常 think of a one-hour一小時 meeting會議 as a one-hour一小時 meeting會議,
274
636000
3000
我們通常覺得一小時的會議就是一小時
10:54
but that's not true真正, unless除非 there's only one person in that meeting會議.
275
639000
3000
但這是錯的,因為會議不只有一個人
10:57
If there are 10 people in the meeting會議, it's a 10-hour-小時 meeting會議; it's not a one-hour一小時 meeting會議.
276
642000
3000
如果有十個人去開會,加起來就十小時了,而非一小時
11:00
It's 10 hours小時 of productivity生產率 taken採取 from the rest休息 of the organization組織
277
645000
3000
十小時的生產力就這樣沒了
11:03
to have this one one-hour一小時 meeting會議,
278
648000
2000
就為這一小時的會議
11:05
which哪一個 probably大概 should have been handled處理 by two or three people
279
650000
3000
而開會本來就可以兩三個人用幾分鐘時間
11:08
talking for a few少數 minutes分鐘.
280
653000
2000
就能完成的
11:10
But instead代替, there's a long scheduled計劃 meeting會議,
281
655000
2000
取而代之的是又臭又長的會
11:12
because meetings會議 are scheduled計劃 the way software軟件 works作品,
282
657000
3000
因為會議安排就像軟體一樣
11:15
which哪一個 is in increments增量 of 15 minutes分鐘, or 30 minutes分鐘, or an hour小時.
283
660000
3000
以15、30、60分增加
11:18
You don't schedule時間表 an eight-hour八小時 meeting會議 with Outlook外表.
284
663000
2000
你不會跟Outlook開八小時的會吧
11:20
You can't. I don't even know if you can.
285
665000
2000
根本不可能
11:22
You can go 15 minutes分鐘 or 30 minutes分鐘 or 45 minutes分鐘 or an hour小時.
286
667000
3000
大概就以15、30、45、60分鐘
11:25
And so we tend趨向 to fill these times up
287
670000
2000
我們會將這些時間填滿
11:27
when things should really go really quickly很快.
288
672000
2000
但其實事情很快就能解決
11:29
So meetings會議 and managers經理 are two major重大的 problems問題 in businesses企業 today今天,
289
674000
3000
所以經理和會議是現今公司的兩大問題
11:32
especially特別 to offices辦事處.
290
677000
2000
特別是在辦公室裡
11:34
These things don't exist存在 outside of the office辦公室.
291
679000
3000
他們不存在於辦公室外
11:37
So I have some suggestions建議
292
682000
2000
所以我有個建議
11:39
to remedy補救 the situation情況.
293
684000
3000
可以解決這問題
11:42
What can managers經理 do --
294
687000
2000
經理們可以--
11:44
enlightened開明 managers經理, hopefully希望 --
295
689000
2000
希望是理智的經理--
11:46
what can they do to make the office辦公室 a better place地點 for people to work,
296
691000
3000
他們可以替員工創造好一點的工作環境
11:49
so it's not the last resort採取, but it's the first resort採取?
297
694000
3000
成為他們工作的第一選擇
11:52
It's that people start開始 to say,
298
697000
2000
讓員工說
11:54
"When I really want to get stuff東東 doneDONE, I go to the office辦公室."
299
699000
2000
"我想把工作做好時,我會進辦公室"
11:56
Because the offices辦事處 are well equipped裝備,
300
701000
2000
因為辦公室設備充足
11:58
everything should be there for them to do their work,
301
703000
2000
需要用到的東西都有了
12:00
but they don't want to go there right now, so how do we change更改 that?
302
705000
3000
可是他們還不這麼想,要怎麼改變呢?
12:03
I have three suggestions建議 I'll share分享 with you guys.
303
708000
2000
我有三個建議,與各位分享
12:05
I have about three minutes分鐘, so that'll那會 fit適合 perfectly完美.
304
710000
3000
大概還剩三分鐘,很剛好
12:08
We've我們已經 all heard聽說 of the casual隨便 Friday星期五 thing.
305
713000
3000
大家都聽過"週五便服日"吧
12:11
I don't know if people still do that.
306
716000
2000
不曉得還有沒有公司採用
12:13
But how about "no-talk沒有說話 Thursdays星期四?"
307
718000
3000
那各位覺得"無言星期四"如何?
12:16
How about --
308
721000
2000
就這樣好了
12:18
pick one Thursday星期四 once一旦 a month
309
723000
2000
隨便挑一個月裡的星期四
12:20
and cut that day in half and just say the afternoon下午 -- I'll make it really easy簡單 for you.
310
725000
3000
再簡單一點,那個星期四下午就好
12:23
So just the afternoon下午, one Thursday星期四.
311
728000
2000
就那星期四的下午
12:25
The first Thursday星期四 of the month -- just the afternoon下午 --
312
730000
2000
假設就第一個週四的下午
12:27
nobody沒有人 in the office辦公室 can talk to each other.
313
732000
2000
大家在辦公室都不要講話
12:29
Just silence安靜, that's it.
314
734000
2000
完全靜默
12:31
And what you'll你會 find
315
736000
2000
你會發現
12:33
is that a tremendous巨大 amount of work actually其實 gets得到 doneDONE
316
738000
2000
完成的工作量有多驚人
12:35
when no one talks會談 to each other.
317
740000
2000
因為沒有人聊天講話
12:37
This is when people actually其實 get stuff東東 doneDONE,
318
742000
2000
要真的把事情做好
12:39
is when no one's那些 bothering困擾 them, when no one's那些 interrupting中斷 them.
319
744000
2000
就不能有人隨時來煩、叨擾
12:41
And you can give someone有人 -- giving someone有人 four hours小時 of uninterrupted不斷 time
320
746000
3000
當你可以給人四小時不受打擾的上班時間
12:44
is the best最好 gift禮品 you can give anybody任何人 at work.
321
749000
2000
會是最好的禮物
12:46
It's better than a computer電腦.
322
751000
2000
比電腦還棒
12:48
It's better than a new monitor監控. It's better than new software軟件,
323
753000
3000
比新的螢幕、新的軟體還好
12:51
or whatever隨你 people typically一般 use.
324
756000
2000
總之比什麼都好
12:53
Giving給予 them four hours小時 of quiet安靜 time at the office辦公室
325
758000
2000
給他們安靜的四小時上班時間
12:55
is going to be incredibly令人難以置信 valuable有價值.
326
760000
2000
會是十分寶貴的
12:57
And if you try that, I think you'll你會 find that you agree同意.
327
762000
2000
試過就知道
12:59
And maybe, hopefully希望 you can do it more often經常.
328
764000
2000
然後,或許可以多增加點安靜時間
13:01
So maybe it's every一切 other week,
329
766000
2000
也許是每兩週、
13:03
or every一切 week, once一旦 a week,
330
768000
2000
或每週、一週一次
13:05
afternoons下午 no one can talk to each other.
331
770000
2000
整個下午都不講話
13:07
That's something that you'll你會 find will really, really work.
332
772000
3000
你會發現這真的很有效
13:10
Another另一個 thing you can try
333
775000
2000
你可以試的另一件事
13:12
is switching交換 from active活性
334
777000
2000
就是將主動的
13:14
communication通訊 and collaboration合作,
335
779000
2000
通訊與合作
13:16
which哪一個 is like face-to-face面對面 stuff東東,
336
781000
2000
像是面對面、
13:18
tapping竊聽 people on the shoulder, saying hi to them, having meetings會議,
337
783000
3000
拍肩、打招呼、開會等等
13:21
and replace更換 that with more passive被動 models楷模 of communication通訊,
338
786000
2000
改為被動的通訊
13:23
using運用 things like email電子郵件 and instant瞬間 messaging消息,
339
788000
3000
像是email或即時通
13:26
or collaboration合作 products製品 -- things like that.
340
791000
3000
這些合作通訊工具之類的
13:29
Now some people might威力 say email電子郵件 is really distracting分心
341
794000
3000
有人可能會覺得email很煩
13:32
and I.M. is really distracting分心,
342
797000
2000
即時通很煩
13:34
and these other things are really distracting分心,
343
799000
2000
還有其他雜七雜八很煩的東西
13:36
but they're distracting分心 at a time of your own擁有 choice選擇 and your own擁有 choosing選擇.
344
801000
3000
但這些東西都可以自己決定什麼時候做
13:39
You can quit放棄 the email電子郵件 app應用; you can't quit放棄 your boss老闆.
345
804000
3000
你可以關掉email,但你關不掉老闆
13:42
You can quit放棄 I.M.;
346
807000
2000
你可以關掉即時通
13:44
you can't hide隱藏 your manager經理.
347
809000
2000
但你躲不了你的上司
13:46
You can put these things away,
348
811000
2000
你可以把東西收起來
13:48
and then you can be interrupted間斷 on your own擁有 schedule時間表, at your own擁有 time,
349
813000
3000
等到行程空出來、有時間了
13:51
when you're available可得到, when you're ready準備 to go again.
350
816000
2000
再做這些事
13:53
Because work, like sleep睡覺, happens發生 in phases.
351
818000
3000
因為工作,如睡覺,都是階段式的
13:56
So you're going to be kind of going up and doing some work,
352
821000
2000
所以,進辦公室先開始專心工作
13:58
and then you're going to come down from that work,
353
823000
2000
把工作完成之後
14:00
and then maybe it's time to check that email電子郵件, or check that I.M.
354
825000
2000
再收發email、開個即時通
14:02
And there are very, very few少數 things that are that urgent緊急
355
827000
3000
因為很少有事情是緊急到
14:05
that need to happen發生, that need to be answered回答 right this second第二.
356
830000
3000
需要馬上得到回覆的
14:08
So if you're a manager經理,
357
833000
2000
如果你的經理
14:10
start開始 encouraging鼓舞人心的 people to use more things like I.M. and email電子郵件
358
835000
2000
開始鼓勵員工多用即時通或email
14:12
and other things that someone有人 else其他 can put away
359
837000
2000
讓另一個人可以先專心作手邊的事
14:14
and then get back to you on their own擁有 schedule時間表.
360
839000
2000
等到有時間在回覆你
14:16
And the last suggestion建議 I have
361
841000
3000
我的最後一個建議是
14:19
is that, if you do have a meeting會議 coming未來 up,
362
844000
3000
如果你正巧有個會議要開
14:22
if you have the power功率,
363
847000
2000
而你權力夠大
14:24
just cancel取消. Just cancel取消 that next下一個 meeting會議.
364
849000
3000
就取消這場會議吧
14:28
Today's今天的 Friday星期五 -- so Monday星期一, usually平時 people have meetings會議 on Monday星期一.
365
853000
2000
今天是週五,那就把下星期一的會議
14:30
Just don't have it.
366
855000
2000
取消吧
14:32
I don't mean move移動 it;
367
857000
2000
我不是說調時間
14:34
I mean just erase抹去 it from memory記憶, it's gone走了.
368
859000
2000
而是直接從記憶刪除
14:36
And you'll你會 find out that everything will be just fine.
369
861000
3000
你發現事情還是一切安好
14:39
All these discussions討論 and decisions決定 you thought you had to make
370
864000
2000
這些你本來計畫週一早上九點
14:41
at this one time at 9 a.m. on Monday星期一,
371
866000
2000
要做的決定、討論
14:43
just forget忘記 about them, and things will be just fine.
372
868000
2000
就忘掉吧,事情一樣會好好的
14:45
People have a more open打開 morning早上, they can actually其實 think,
373
870000
3000
讓員工有個自由的早晨,可以思考
14:48
and you'll你會 find out that maybe all these things you thought you had to do,
374
873000
2000
你會發現你本來打算做的事
14:50
you don't actually其實 have to do.
375
875000
2000
根本沒這個必要
14:52
So those are just three quick suggestions建議 I wanted to give you guys
376
877000
2000
以上就是我的三個小建議
14:54
to think about this.
377
879000
2000
讓各位想想
14:56
And I hope希望 that some of these ideas思路
378
881000
2000
我希望我所分享的一些點子
14:58
were at least最小 provocative挑釁 enough足夠
379
883000
2000
足夠煽動
15:00
for managers經理 and bosses老闆 and business商業 owners擁有者
380
885000
2000
能讓經理、老闆、
15:02
and organizers組織者 and people who are in charge收費 of other people
381
887000
3000
頂頭上司、主管等等
15:05
to think about laying鋪設 off a little bit
382
890000
2000
試著稍微放手
15:07
and giving people some more time to get some work doneDONE.
383
892000
2000
給員工多一點空間來完成工作
15:09
And I think it'll它會 all pay工資 off in the end結束.
384
894000
2000
我想最終會是值得的
15:11
So thanks謝謝 for listening.
385
896000
2000
謝謝各位
15:13
(Applause掌聲)
386
898000
2000
(掌聲)
Translated by Adrienne Lin
Reviewed by Joyce Chou

▲Back to top

ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jason Fried - Software entrepreneur
Jason Fried thinks deeply about collaboration, productivity and the nature of work. He's the co-founder of 37signals, makers of Basecamp and other web-based collaboration tools, and co-author of "Rework."

Why you should listen

Jason Fried is the co-founder and president of 37signals , a Chicago-based company that builds web-based productivity tools that, in their words, "do less than the competition -- intentionally." 37signals' simple but powerful collaboration tools include Basecamp, Highrise, Backpack, Campfire, Ta-da List, and Writeboard. 37signals also developed and open-sourced the Ruby on Rails programming framework.

Fried is the co-author, with David Heinemeier Hansson, of the book Rework, about new ways to conceptualize working and creating. Salon's Scott Rosenberg called it "a minimalist manifesto that's profoundly practical. In a world where we all keep getting asked to do more with less, the authors show us how to do less and create more."

More profile about the speaker
Jason Fried | Speaker | TED.com