TEDWomen 2010
Rufus Griscom + Alisa Volkman: Let's talk parenting taboos
Rufus Griscom + Alisa Volkman: 談談為人父母的禁忌
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Babble.com 站長 Rufus Griscom 和 Alisa Volkman 以生動活潑的方法, 探討父母絕不能承認以及為什麼該承認的四個事實。這個講座有趣又誠實, 父母和非父母都會喜歡。
Rufus Griscom + Alisa Volkman - Website co-founders
Rufus Griscom and Alisa Volkman co-founded Babble, a website for parents. He’s the CEO, she’s the VP of sales strategy and brand development, and they have three sons. Full bio
Rufus Griscom and Alisa Volkman co-founded Babble, a website for parents. He’s the CEO, she’s the VP of sales strategy and brand development, and they have three sons. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:18
Alisa Volkman: So this is where our story begins --
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這是我們故事的始點
00:21
the dramatic moments of the birth
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就是那個生命誕生的經典時刻
00:23
of our first son, Declan.
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我們第一個兒子Declan
00:25
Obviously a really profound moment,
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這真是個很深刻的時刻
00:27
and it changed our lives in many ways.
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也在許多方面改變了我們的生命
00:29
It also changed our lives in many unexpected ways,
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在我們意想不到時，改變了我們的生命
00:31
and those unexpected ways we later reflected on,
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這些出乎意料的部份後來也影響著我們
00:34
that eventually spawned a business idea between the two of us,
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最後更促成了我們兩人做生意的點子
00:36
and a year later, we launched Babble,
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一年之後, 我們推出了Babble
00:38
a website for parents.
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一個給家長的網站
00:40
Rufus Griscom: Now I think of our story
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現在, 我們的故事
00:42
as starting a few years earlier. AV: That's true.
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應該是在更早幾年前開始的 (是真的)
00:45
RG: You may remember, we fell head over heels in love.
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RG:你們應該都記得，電光火石間墮入愛河
00:48
AV: We did.
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AV: 我們是的
00:50
RG: We were at the time running a very different kind of website.
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RG: 我們當時正經營另一種網站
00:52
It was a website called Nerve.com,
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這是網站名叫: Nerve.com
00:54
the tagline of which was "literate smut."
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副標題是色情文學
00:57
It was in theory, and hopefully in practice,
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這是理論上, 希望在實際上
01:00
a smart online magazine
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是一個智能網上雜誌
01:02
about sex and culture.
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是有關性和文化的
01:05
AV: That spawned a dating site.
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AV: 接連促成了一個約會交友網站
01:08
But you can understand the jokes that we get. Sex begets babies.
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你也會明白我們常說的笑話: 性會帶來寶寶
01:10
You follow instructions on Nerve and you should end up on Babble,
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你跟隨Nerve網站的指示, 便會到達Babble
01:13
which we did.
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我們倆就是這樣
01:15
And we might launch a geriatric site as our third. We'll see.
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我們可能之後會推出個老人的網站作為第三步, 再看看
01:19
RG: But for us, the continuity between Nerve and Babble
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但對我們來說, Nerve和Babble之間的連繫
01:22
was not just the life stage thing,
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並不單只是不同人生階段的事
01:24
which is, of course, relevant,
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這個, 當然有關
01:26
but it was really more about
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或是更多是
01:28
our desire to speak very honestly
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我們想更坦白的說出
01:30
about subjects that people have difficulty speaking honestly about.
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那些人們不敢坦白說出來的話題
01:33
It seems to us that
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這對我們來說
01:35
when people start dissembling, people start lying about things,
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當有些人開始掩飾, 他們開始會為那些說謊
01:38
that's when it gets really interesting.
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那就是讓我們很感興趣的東西
01:40
That's a subject that we want to dive into.
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也是我們想深入發掘的議題
01:42
And we've been surprised to find, as young parents,
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我們也很驚奇的發現, 作為年青的父母
01:44
that there are almost more taboos around parenting
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管教這回事好像有著更多的禁忌
01:47
than there are around sex.
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甚至比起性話題有著更多的禁忌
01:49
AV: It's true. So like we said,
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這是真的, 所以我們會說
01:51
the early years were really wonderful,
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這個早期的階段, 的確是很奇妙
01:53
but they were also really difficult.
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但同時, 也真的是很困難的
01:55
And we feel like some of that difficulty
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我們感到這些困難
01:57
was because of this false advertisement around parenting.
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有一部份是來自關於管教的錯誤宣傳
02:00
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
02:02
We subscribed to a lot of magazines, did our homework,
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我們訂了很多雜誌, 做功課
02:05
but really everywhere you look around, we were surrounded by images like this.
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但真的, 不論到那裡, 我們都是給這些影像圍繞著的
02:08
And we went into parenting
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當我們真的做了家長
02:10
expecting our lives to look like this.
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我們會期望生活就該是如此
02:12
The sun was always streaming in, and our children would never be crying.
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太陽永遠高照, 孩子也永不會吵鬧
02:15
I would always be perfectly coiffed and well rested,
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我會永遠的端莊和平靜
02:19
and in fact, it was not like that at all.
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但事實並不是如此的
02:21
RG: When we lowered the glossy parenting magazine
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當我們放下那些光彩的育兒雜誌
02:24
that we were looking at, with these beautiful images,
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放下裡面的漂亮影像
02:26
and looked at the scene in our actual living room,
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同時看到我們實際客廳內的場景
02:28
it looked a little bit more like this.
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它多數的時候都會是這樣的
02:30
These are our three sons.
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這是我們的三個兒子
02:32
And of course, they're not always crying and screaming,
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當然, 他們不是經常吵鬧及哭叫
02:34
but with three boys, there's a decent probability
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但有著三個男孩, 其中一個會不規矩
02:36
that at least one of them will not be comporting himself
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的機率是很大的
02:38
exactly as he should.
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其實他是應該的
02:40
AV: Yes, you can see where the disconnect was happening for us.
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對了,我會看到我們怎樣跟那些雜誌的影像脫離
02:43
We really felt like what we went in expecting
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我們後來感到, 我們以為的
02:46
had nothing to do with what we were actually experiencing,
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其實跟真實的經驗, 是沒有關的
02:49
and so we decided we really wanted to give it to parents straight.
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所以我們決定真實的告訴家長
02:52
We really wanted to let them understand
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我們真的想誠實的讓別人明白
02:55
what the realities of parenting were in an honest way.
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為人父母究竟是怎樣的一回事
02:58
RG: So today, what we would love to do
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所以今天, 我們會想跟各位
03:00
is share with you four parenting taboos.
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分享四個有關做父母的禁忌
03:03
And of course, there are many more than four things
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但當然, 其實除了四個之外, 還有更多
03:05
you can't say about parenting,
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關於做父母的不能說
03:07
but we would like to share with you today
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但我們想跟你分享的
03:09
four that are particularly relevant for us personally.
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這四個是特別跟我們個人有關的
03:12
So the first, taboo number one:
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所以第一, 禁忌一
03:15
you can't say you didn't fall in love with your baby
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你不能說你沒有在第一分鐘的時候
03:18
in the very first minute.
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就愛上你的孩子
03:20
I remember vividly, sitting there in the hospital.
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我很清晰的記得, 當我坐在醫院
03:23
We were in the process of giving birth to our first child.
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我們第一個孩子的生產過程中
03:26
AV: We, or I?
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AV: 我們, 或是我?
03:28
RG: I'm sorry.
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RG: 對不起
03:30
Misuse of the pronoun.
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用錯了代名詞
03:32
Alisa was very generously in the process
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Alisa 在這生第一個孩子的過程中實在非常慷慨
03:34
of giving birth to our first child -- (AV: Thank you.)
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實在非常慷慨 AV: 謝謝
03:36
-- and I was there with a catcher's mitt.
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而我就站在一旁戴著捕手的手套
03:38
And I was there with my arms open.
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張開我的兩臂
03:40
The nurse was coming at me
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護士帶著這個
03:42
with this beautiful, beautiful child,
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很漂亮, 很漂亮的孩子, 走到我的跟前
03:44
and I remember, as she was approaching me,
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我記得, 當她走過來的時候,
03:46
the voices of friends saying,
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我想起朋友說的話
03:49
"The moment they put the baby in your hands,
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『當他們把孩子放在你手中的時候
03:51
you will feel a sense of love that will come over you
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你會感到愛的感應
03:54
that is [on] an order of magnitude more powerful
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是那種你一生之中
03:56
than anything you've ever experienced in your entire life."
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從來沒有經歷過的震撼的力量。』
03:59
So I was bracing myself for the moment.
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於是,我為這個時刻而抖擻自己
04:01
The baby was coming,
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那個嬰兒快要到來了
04:03
and I was ready for this Mack truck of love
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而我就準備那一卡車的愛
04:05
to just knock me off my feet.
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將我撞倒
04:08
And instead, when the baby was placed in my hands,
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反倒是, 當那個嬰兒放在我手中的時候,
04:11
it was an extraordinary moment.
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這是一個很特別的時刻
04:13
This picture is from literally a few seconds after
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這張照片就是當嬰兒放在我手中, 我抱著他
04:16
the baby was placed in my hands and I brought him over.
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數秒之後拍下來的
04:19
And you can see, our eyes were glistening.
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你可以看到, 我們的眼睛閃閃發亮
04:21
I was overwhelmed with love and affection for my wife,
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我被自己對妻子的愛以及感激
04:24
with deep, deep gratitude
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沖昏了
04:26
that we had what appeared to be a healthy child.
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因為這看來是一個健康的孩子
04:28
And it was also, of course, surreal.
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這好像是很不真實的
04:30
I mean, I had to check the tags and make sure.
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我一再檢查, 確定那個名牌
04:32
I was incredulous, "Are you sure this is our child?"
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我有點懷疑: 『你肯定這是我們的孩子?』
04:34
And this was all quite remarkable.
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這些都非常不可思議
04:37
But what I felt towards the child at that moment was deep affection,
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但那刻, 我對這個孩子的強烈感情
04:40
but nothing like what I feel for him now, five years later.
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卻不如五年之後我對他的感情之大
04:43
And so we've done something here
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我們做了一件
04:45
that is heretical.
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很詭異的事
04:47
We have charted
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我們記錄了
04:50
our love for our child over time.
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在不同時期對孩子的愛
04:53
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
04:55
This, as you know, is an act of heresy.
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這個, 你可能會認為是, 有點離經叛道
04:58
You're not allowed to chart love.
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你是不容許去計算愛的
05:00
The reason you're not allowed to chart love
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你會認為不應去計算愛
05:02
is because we think of love as a binary thing.
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是因為我們會認為愛是一種非黑即白的
05:04
You're either in love, or you're not in love.
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你一是在愛中, 一是不在愛中
05:06
You love, or you don't love.
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你愛, 你不愛
05:08
And I think the reality is that love is a process,
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但我想, 現實是, 愛其實是一個過程
05:11
and I think the problem with thinking of love
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而我們想著愛如果是非黑即白的,
05:13
as something that's binary
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那才是問題的本身
05:15
is that it causes us
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這問題會令我們
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to be unduly concerned
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太過關注
05:19
that love is fraudulent, or inadequate, or what have you.
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愛其實並不是很足夠, 或是需要自我欺騙
05:22
And I think I'm speaking obviously here to the father's experience.
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我所說的明顯的是一個爸爸的經驗
05:25
But I think a lot of men do go through this sense
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我想很多男士在早期, 或是孩子的第一年的時候
05:27
in the early months, maybe their first year,
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會有過這樣的感覺
05:30
that their emotional response is inadequate in some fashion.
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就是, 他們的情感反應有時不足以應付
05:33
AV: Well, I'm glad Rufus is bringing this up,
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好了, 我很高興Rufus提到這點
05:35
because you can notice where he dips in the first years
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你會發現孩子的第一年, 他的愛下降了
05:38
where I think I was doing most of the work.
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而我就做著大部份的工作
05:41
But we like to joke,
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有時我們會開玩笑說
05:43
in the first few months of all of our children's lives,
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在孩子們開始的數個月裡, 告訴他們
05:45
this is Uncle Rufus.
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這是Rufus叔淑
05:47
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
05:49
RG: I'm a very affectionate uncle, very affectionate uncle.
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我是一個很有情感的叔叔, 非常喜愛他們
05:51
AV: Yes, and I often joke with Rufus when he comes home
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是, 我常常跟Rufus開玩笑, 當他回家的時候
05:54
that I'm not sure he would actually be able to find our child in a line-up
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我實在不太確定, 他能夠在一群嬰兒之中
05:57
amongst other babies.
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挑出自己的孩子
05:59
So I actually threw a pop quiz here onto Rufus.
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我現在就給Rufus一個挑戰
06:01
RG: Uh oh.
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RG: 噢
06:03
AV: I don't want to embarrass him too much. But I am going to give him three seconds.
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AV: 我不想令他感到尷尬, 所以我會給他三秒鐘
06:06
RG: That is not fair. This is a trick question. He's not up there, is he?
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RG: 這樣不公平, 妳耍詐, 孩子不在這裡面, 是嗎?
06:09
AV: Our eight-week-old son is somewhere in here,
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AV: 我們的八個星期的兒子是在這裡某處
06:12
and I want to see if Rufus can actually quickly identify him.
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我想知道Rufus能不能很快的找出他來
06:14
RG: The far left. AV: No!
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RG: 最左邊 AV: 不!
06:16
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
06:23
RG: Cruel.
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RG: 好殘忍
06:25
AV: Nothing more to be said.
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AV: 我沒有什麼好說了
06:27
(Laughter)
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笑聲
06:29
I'll move on to taboo number two.
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我轉到禁忌二
06:31
You can't talk about how lonely having a baby can be.
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你不能說出, 究竟生個小孩是多寂寞的一回事
06:34
I enjoyed being pregnant. I loved it.
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我喜歡懷孕, 我喜歡
06:36
I felt incredibly connected to the community around me.
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我感到跟我周遭的人有很深厚的連繫
06:39
I felt like everyone was participating in my pregnancy, all around me,
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我感到每一個人都參與著我的懷孕, 在我周圍附近
06:42
tracking it down till the actual due-date.
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一直陪伴直到生產的那一天
06:46
I felt like I was a vessel of the future of humanity.
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我覺得我好像是人類未來的脈管
06:49
That continued into the the hospital. It was really exhilarating.
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連續到我在醫院的時候, 這真是令人振奮
06:52
I was shower with gifts and flowers and visitors.
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我被禮物, 鮮花, 訪客圍著
06:55
It was a really wonderful experience,
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這真是很好的經驗
06:58
but when I got home,
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但當我回到家的時候
07:00
I suddenly felt very disconnected
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我突然感到很孤單
07:02
and suddenly shut in and shut out,
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和突然的被禁錮起來
07:05
and I was really surprised by those feelings.
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我對這些感覺也感到很意外
07:07
I did expect it to be difficult,
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我預計了這是過程很不容易
07:09
have sleepless nights, constant feedings,
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有許多無眠的晚上, 持續的餵哺
07:11
but I did not expect the feelings
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但我沒有預期到這些
07:13
of isolation and loneliness that I experienced,
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孤單和寂寞的感覺
07:16
and I was really surprised that no one had talked to me,
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我更驚奇的是, 竟然沒有人跟我說過
07:18
that I was going to be feeling this way.
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我將會有這樣的感覺
07:20
And I called my sister
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於是, 我打電話給我姊姊
07:22
whom I'm very close to -- and had three children --
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我們很親, 她有三個孩子
07:25
and I asked her, "Why didn't you tell me
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我問她, 你為什麼不告訴我
07:27
I was going to be feeling this way,
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我會有這樣的感覺
07:29
that I was going to have these -- feeling incredibly isolated?"
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就是莫名的被孤立的感覺
07:33
And she said -- I'll never forget --
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她說--我永遠不會忘記--
07:35
"It's just not something you want to say to a mother
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這不是該跟那些第一次當媽媽的人
07:37
that's having a baby for the first time."
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應該說的話
07:40
RG: And of course, we think
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RG: 這當然是, 我們想
07:42
it's precisely what you really should be saying
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這正是應該對那些
07:45
to mothers who have kids for the first time.
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第一次當媽媽的人說的話
07:48
And that this, of course, one of the themes for us
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所以, 當然的, 我們其中一個重要的主題
07:51
is that we think
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就是我們想
07:53
that candor and brutal honesty
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這些坦率而殘酷的事實
07:55
is critical to us collectively
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對我們變成一個偉大父母來說
07:57
being great parents.
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都是非常重要的
07:59
And it's hard not to think
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很難想像
08:01
that part of what leads to this sense of isolation
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現代的社會會令人有種
08:03
is our modern world.
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孤立無援的感覺
08:05
So Alisa's experience is not isolated.
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所以Alisa的經驗並不是單一的
08:07
So your 58 percent of mothers surveyed
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我們調查過, 有58%的媽媽
08:09
report feelings of loneliness.
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都表達有孤單的感覺
08:11
Of those, 67 percent are most lonely
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而當中, 67%更表示
08:13
when their kids are zero to five -- probably really zero to two.
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在她們的孩子0-5歲, 或說0-2歲時最感到孤單
08:16
In the process of preparing this,
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為了準備這個必經的過程
08:18
we looked at how some other cultures around the world
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我們參考了世界上其他文化的經驗
08:20
deal with this period of time,
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怎樣去處理這段時期的問題
08:23
because here in the Western world,
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因為我們西方國家
08:25
less than 50 percent of us live near our family members,
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有少過50%的人是住在家人附近
08:28
which I think is part of why this is such a tough period.
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這也是我想為什麼這階段很艱難
08:31
So to take one example among many:
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在這許多的例子之中
08:33
in Southern India
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看看印度南部
08:35
there's a practice known as jholabhari,
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他們有一個習俗叫個 jholabihari
08:37
in which the pregnant woman, when she's seven or eight months pregnant,
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就是一個婦女, 懷孕7-8個月的時候
08:40
moves in with her mother
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搬去與自己的母親同住
08:42
and goes through a series of rituals and ceremonies,
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然後經過一系列的儀式和慶典
08:44
give birth and returns home to her nuclear family
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在她生下孩子的數個月之後
08:47
several months after the child is born.
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她才回到自己的核心家庭裡
08:49
And this is one of many ways
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這就是其他文化
08:51
that we think other cultures offset this kind of lonely period.
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怎樣減低這個孤單時期的其中一個方法
08:54
AV: So taboo number three:
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AV: 然後, 禁忌三
08:56
you can't talk about your miscarriage -- but today I'll talk about mine.
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不能談論有關流產的經驗----但今天我會說說我自己的
08:59
So after we had Declan,
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在我生下Declan後
09:01
we kind of recalibrated our expectations.
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經過重整我們的期望之後
09:03
We thought we actually could go through this again
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我們認為我們可以再試一次
09:06
and thought we knew what we would be up against.
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並想著我們可以重新站起來
09:09
And we were grateful that I was able to get pregnant,
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很感恩的, 我再一次懷孕
09:12
and I soon learned that we were having a boy,
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不久後知道懷的是男孩
09:14
and then when I was five months,
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大概是五個月的時候
09:16
we learned that we had lost our child.
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我們發現失去了這個孩子
09:18
This is actually the last little image we have of him.
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這就是他留下來最後的照片
09:22
And it was obviously a very difficult time --
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這顯然是一段很困難的時間
09:24
really painful.
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實在很痛苦
09:27
As I was working through that mourning process,
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就在我努力的應付這段哀傷的日子
09:30
I was amazed that I didn't want to see anybody.
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我發現自己實在不想見到任何人
09:33
I really wanted to crawl into a hole,
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我只想躲在洞裡
09:36
and I didn't really know how I was going
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我知道我在做些什麼
09:38
to work my way back into my surrounding community.
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我想用我自己的方法, 回到我周遭的社區
09:41
And I realize, I think, the way I was feeling that way,
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我發現, 我心底裡
09:44
is on a really deep gut level,
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最真實的感覺
09:46
I was feeling a lot of shame
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是我感到許多的羞恥
09:49
and embarrassed, frankly,
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尷尬, 坦白說
09:51
that, in some respects, I had failed
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在某一程度來說, 我失敗了
09:53
at delivering what I'm genetically engineered to do.
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我無法用我天然的生殖能力來孕育孩子
09:56
And of course, it made me question,
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這當然, 讓我感到疑惑
09:58
if I wasn't able to have another child,
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這是否代表我無法再生孩子
10:00
what would that mean for my marriage,
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這對我的婚姻來說有些什麼意義
10:02
and just me as a woman.
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和自己身為女人的質疑
10:04
So it was a very difficult time.
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這實在是一段很艱難的日子
10:06
As I started working through it more,
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我開始努力的去處理這問題
10:08
I started climbing out of that hole and talking with other people.
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我開始爬出我的洞外, 開始跟別人談論
10:11
I was really amazed
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我感到很驚奇
10:13
by all the stories that started flooding in.
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因為別人的故事開始湧進來了
10:15
People I interacted with daily,
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那些我每天都見
10:17
worked with, was friends with,
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或是一起工作的, 曾經親近的朋友
10:19
family members that I had known a long time,
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甚至是家人, 以及那些我認識了很久的人
10:21
had never shared with me their own stories.
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從來沒有跟我訴說過他們的故事
10:23
And I just remember feeling all these stories came out of the woodwork,
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我覺得這些故事都是從森林裡走出來的
10:26
and I felt like I happened upon
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而我感到自己剛好碰到
10:28
this secret society of women that I now was a part of,
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這些秘密的婦女世界, 而我是其中一份子
10:31
which was reassuring and also really concerning.
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這讓我感到既放心又擔心
10:35
And I think,
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我覺得
10:37
miscarriage is an invisible loss.
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流產是一種看不到的失去
10:39
There's not really a lot of community support around it.
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這當中並沒有很多的支持和支援
10:41
There's really no ceremony,
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也沒有真正的告別儀式
10:43
rituals, or rites.
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或是告別的場合
10:45
And I think, with a death, you have a funeral, you celebrate the life,
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我想, 如果有人死了, 你會有一個葬禮, 去慶祝生存的日子
10:48
and there's a lot of community support,
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也有很多社區的支援
10:50
and it's something women don't have with miscarriage.
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只當有流產經驗的女性, 卻沒有這些東西
10:52
RG: Which is too bad because, of course,
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RG: 這當然是很不好的事呢
10:54
it's a very common and very traumatic experience.
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這是一個很普遍卻又很傷痛的經驗
10:56
Fifteen to 20 percent of all pregnancies result in miscarriage,
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因為15%-20%的懷孕會以流產終結
10:59
and I find this astounding.
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我覺得這情況是驚人的
11:01
In a survey, 74 percent of women said
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在調查之中, 74%的女性會說
11:03
that miscarriage, they felt, was partly their fault, which is awful.
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她們覺得流產是她們的錯, 這是很糟的
11:06
And astoundingly, 22 percent
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更可怕的是, 22%的女性
11:08
said they would hide a miscarriage from their spouse.
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甚至會對自己的配偶隱暪流產的事
11:10
So taboo number four:
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而禁忌四:
11:12
you can't say that your average happiness
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你不能說自己的快樂
11:15
has declined since having a child.
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在當有了孩子之後, 會一直下跌
11:18
The party line is that every single aspect of my life
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老實說, 自從自己參與了
11:21
has just gotten dramatically better
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這個養育孩子的奇妙經驗
11:23
ever since I participated
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我生活的每一個部份
11:25
in the miracle that is childbirth and family.
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都會變得非常良好
11:29
I'll never forget, I remember vividly to this day,
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我永不會忘記, 我清楚記得
11:32
our first son, Declan, was nine months old,
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我們第一個兒子Declan九個月的時候
11:35
and I was sitting there on the couch,
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我坐在沙發上
11:37
and I was reading Daniel Gilbert's wonderful book, "Stumbling on Happiness."
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我正在看丹尼爾．吉伯特非常出色的書《快樂為什麼不幸福？》
11:40
And I got about two-thirds of the way through,
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大概在書中三分之二的部份
11:42
and there was a chart on the right-hand side --
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在右手邊有一個圖表
11:45
on the right-hand page --
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在右邊那頁
11:47
that we've labeled here
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於是我們標籤了
11:49
"The Most Terrifying Chart Imaginable
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"新手父母最不能想像的
11:51
for a New Parent."
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驚人圖表"
11:53
This chart is comprised of four completely independent studies.
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這個圖表包含了四個獨立的研究
11:56
Basically, there's this precipitous drop
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基本上, 對於婚姻的滿足感
11:59
of marital satisfaction,
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是非常明顯的下滑
12:01
which is closely aligned, we all know, with broader happiness,
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而跟廣義的快樂來比, 也是接近相似的模式
12:04
that doesn't rise again
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而又不會再次上升
12:06
until your first child goes to college.
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直到第一個孩子上了大學之後
12:09
So I'm sitting here looking at the next two decades of my life,
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於是, 我坐著在想著自己未來二十年的人生
12:12
this chasm of happiness
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這個快樂的裂口
12:14
that we're driving our proverbial convertible straight into.
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用我們最直接的形容詞來說
12:17
We were despondent.
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我們感到很是沮喪
12:20
AV: So you can imagine, I mean again, the first few months were difficult,
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AV: 於是, 你可以想像, 最初的日子是困難的
12:22
but we'd come out of it,
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但我們都終能走過來
12:24
and were really shocked to see this study.
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但我們看到這個研究, 實在是很震驚
12:26
So we really wanted to take a deeper look at it
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我們真的想認真的探討這個
12:29
in hopes that we would find a silver lining.
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希望我們能找到曙光
12:31
RG: And that's when it's great to be running a website for parents,
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所以我們決定開拓一個給家長的網站
12:33
because we got this incredible reporter
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因為我們有了不起的記者
12:36
to go and interview all the scientists
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可以去訪問許多科學家
12:39
who conducted these four studies.
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尤其做那四個獨立研究的科學家
12:41
We said, something is wrong here.
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我們說: 研究當中有些錯誤
12:43
There's something missing from these studies.
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有些東西在這些研究之中遺留了
12:45
It can't possibly be that bad.
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應該結果不會是如此的令人沮喪
12:49
So Liz Mitchell did a wonderful job with this piece,
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於是Liz Mitchell很棒的
12:52
and she interviewed four scientists,
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她訪問了四個科學家
12:55
and she also interviewed Daniel Gilbert,
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她也訪問了丹尼爾．吉伯特
12:57
and we did indeed find a silver lining.
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我們確實也找到了一線曙光
12:59
So this is our guess
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這個是我們
13:01
as to what this baseline of average happiness
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對於平均快樂基線的估計
13:04
arguably looks like throughout life.
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可以說是這條線大概貫穿整個人生
13:06
Average happiness is, of course, inadequate,
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平均快樂, 當然是, 不大足夠
13:08
because it doesn't speak
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因為它是不懂得
13:10
to the moment-by-moment experience,
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為每一個時刻的經驗而說話的
13:12
and so this is what we think it looks like
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所以我們認為它應該是這個樣子
13:15
when you layer in
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當你放置了
13:17
moment-to-moment experience.
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一個又一個時刻的經驗
13:20
And so we all remember as children,
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好像我們都記得當我們是小孩的時候
13:22
the tiniest little thing -- and we see it on the faces of our children --
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那些最微小的事--我們都在小孩臉上看過的
13:25
the teeniest little thing
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那些小事
13:27
can just rocket them to these heights
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可以把快樂
13:29
of just utter adulation,
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吹噓到很高的水平
13:31
and then the next teeniest little thing
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接著另一件很小的事
13:33
can cause them just to plummet to the depths of despair.
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也可以帶動到最深刻的沮喪和困境
13:35
And it's just extraordinary to watch, and we remember it ourselves.
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我們很少這樣去思考, 我們只是自己把經驗記得了
13:38
And then, of course, as you get older,
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接著, 當你長大的時候
13:40
it's almost like age is a form of lithium.
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年齡就好像是鋰金屬一樣
13:42
As you get older, you become more stable.
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當時間愈久, 你便愈穩定
13:45
And part of what happens, I think, in your '20s and '30s,
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當你還是二十或是三十的時候,
13:48
is you start to learn to hedge your happiness.
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你開始懂得去對沖你的快樂
13:50
You start to realize that
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你也開始發現
13:52
"Hey, I could go to this live music event
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"我想去這個現場音樂會
13:55
and have an utterly transforming experience
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就會有一個徹底改造的經驗
13:57
that will cover my entire body with goosebumps,
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我的全身都會起疙瘩
14:00
but it's more likely that I'll feel claustrophobic
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但可能我會感到幽閉恐懼
14:02
and I won't be able to get a beer.
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我沒辦法拿啤酒喝
14:05
So I'm not going to go.
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我還是不要去了
14:07
I've got a good stereo at home. So, I'm not going to go."
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我家中有很好的立體音響, 我還是不去好了"
14:10
So your average happiness goes up,
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於是, 你的平均快樂上昇
14:13
but you lose those transcendent moments.
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但這失去了那些美妙的時刻
14:15
AV: Yeah, and then you have your first child,
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接著, 你有了第一個孩子
14:18
and then you really resubmit yourself
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於是真的再次去評價自己
14:20
to these highs and lows --
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的喜和憂
14:22
the highs being the first steps, the first smile,
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喜好像是那些第一步, 第一個笑容
14:25
your child reading to you for the first time --
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你孩子第一次讀故事給你聽
14:27
the lows being, our house, any time from six to seven every night.
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低潮是每晚的6-7點都要待在家裡
14:32
But you realize you resubmit yourself
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但當你再次給你自己的失控
14:34
to losing control in a really wonderful way,
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打分數的時候
14:37
which we think provides a lot of meaning to our lives
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我們發現生命多了許多意義
14:39
and is quite gratifying.
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同時也是很感恩的
14:41
RG: And so in effect,
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最後的結果
14:43
we trade average happiness.
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我們犧牲了平均的快樂
14:45
We trade the sort of security and safety
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但得到更具體的安全感覺
14:47
of a certain level of contentment
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這層次中的滿足感之中
14:49
for these transcendent moments.
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在那些美妙的時刻
14:52
So where does that leave the two of us
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最後, 經歷過這許多之後
14:54
as a family with our three little boys
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我們這一家和三個小孩和兩口子.
14:56
in the thick of all this?
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我們得到了什麼
14:58
There's another factor in our case.
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這是我們的另外體會
15:00
We have violated yet another taboo
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我們同時也犯了另一個禁忌
15:02
in our own lives,
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在我們的生命裡
15:04
and this is a bonus taboo.
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這是一個額外的禁忌
15:07
AV: A quick bonus taboo for you, that we should not be working together,
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一個快速的禁忌分享給各位, 夫妻不該一起工作
15:10
especially with three children --
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特別有了三個小孩
15:12
and we are.
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但我們是一起工作的
15:14
RG: And we had reservations about this on the front end.
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我們在開始的時候仍有保留
15:17
Everybody knows, you should absolutely not work with your spouse.
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每個人都知道, 你絕對不應該跟你的配偶一起工作
15:20
In fact, when we first went out to raise money to start Babble,
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事實是, 我們一起掙錢去建立Babble
15:23
the venture capitalists said,
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我們的投資人說
15:25
"We categorically don't invest
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"我們通常不會投資給
15:27
in companies founded by husbands and wives,
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那些由丈夫和太太合辦的公司"
15:29
because there's an extra point of failure.
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因為這註定會失敗
15:31
It's a bad idea. Don't do it."
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這不是好主意, 不要做"
15:33
And we obviously went forward. We did.
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我們顯然向前邁進了, 我們做了
15:35
We raised the money, and we're thrilled that we did,
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我們掙錢, 對此感到很興奮
15:38
because in this phase of one's life,
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因為在人生的這個階段
15:40
the incredibly scarce resource is time.
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極缺乏的資源就是時間
15:43
And if you're really passionate about what you do every day -- which we are --
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如果你對你每天所做的事都擁有熱情, 就像我們
15:46
and you're also passionate about your relationship,
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也為伴侶關係感到熱情
15:48
this is the only way we know how to do it.
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這也是我們知道怎樣做的唯一方法
15:51
And so the final question that we would ask is:
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所以最後一個我們想發問的問題是
15:53
can we collectively bend that happiness chart upwards?
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我們是否可以集體的把那個快樂的圖表往上推
15:56
It's great that we have these transcendent moments of joy,
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我們都有一個特別的快樂時刻, 這是很好的
15:59
but they're sometimes pretty quick.
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但這些時刻可能過得很快
16:02
And so how about that average baseline of happiness?
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所以, 我們應該怎樣可以把整個快樂的
16:05
Can we move that up a little bit?
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基線都往上推一把
16:07
AV: And we kind of feel that the happiness gap, which we talked about,
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我們所說的這種快樂
16:10
is really the result of walking into parenting --
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其實正是走進親職這角色的結果
16:12
and really any long-term partnership for that matter --
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而對一個帶著錯誤期望的長久伴侶來說
16:14
with the wrong expectations.
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也許這真是一個問題
16:16
And if you have the right expectations and expectation management,
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假如你有著正確的期望, 也懂得管理你的期望
16:19
we feel like it's going to be a pretty gratifying experience.
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我們覺得這會是很有滿足感的經驗
16:22
RG: And so this is what --
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這也是
16:24
And we think that a lot of parents,
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我們想許多的父母
16:26
when you get in there -- in our case anyway --
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當你在這裡, 就好像我們一樣
16:28
you pack your bags for a trip to Europe, and you're really excited to go.
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你收拾好行李準備到歐洲, 你也許很熱切期待
16:31
Get out of the airplane,
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當你下飛機的時候
16:33
it turns out you're trekking in Nepal.
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才發現原來自己正在尼泊爾遠足
16:35
And trekking in Nepal is an extraordinary experience,
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但到尼泊爾遠足也是一個獨特的經驗
16:38
particularly if you pack your bags properly
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特別是如果你已經把你的行李收拾得好
16:40
and you know what you're getting in for and you're psyched.
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也明白自己會遇到的情況, 對此很期待的話
16:42
So the point of all this for us today
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這是我們今天想分享的重點
16:44
is not just hopefully honesty for the sake of honesty,
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我們並不是為誠實而誠實
16:47
but a hope that by being more honest and candid about these experiences,
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而是希望能更誠實和坦然的面對這些經驗
16:50
that we can all collectively
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可以讓我們一起集體的
16:52
bend that happiness baseline up a little bit.
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把快樂的基線往上推
16:55
RG + AV: Thank you.
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謝謝
16:57
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Rufus Griscom + Alisa Volkman - Website co-foundersRufus Griscom and Alisa Volkman co-founded Babble, a website for parents. He’s the CEO, she’s the VP of sales strategy and brand development, and they have three sons.
Why you should listen
Alisa Volkman co-founded Babble with her husband, Rufus Griscom, in December 2006, and has spent the past four years growing the site to attract more than 4 million parents a month. As VP of Sales Strategy and Brand Development, Volkman oversees design, influences product development, and creates and sells custom ad programs.
Griscom serves as Babble’s CEO. He was co-founder of the pathbreaking Nerve.com in 1997, as the website’s founding editor and CEO. In the decade that followed, Griscom grew Nerve Media into a profitable website and online dating business, in the process spinning off Spring Street Networks. He serves as an advisor to several New York-based internet companies. Volkman and Griscom have three sons, Declan, Grey and the brand-new Rye.
Rufus Griscom + Alisa Volkman | Speaker | TED.com