ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Daniel Kish - Perceptual navigation specialist
Daniel Kish expands the perceptual toolbox of both blind and sighted humans by teaching echolocation -- the ability to observe our surroundings via sound.

Why you should listen

When he was 13 months old, Daniel Kish lost both eyes to retinal cancer. Driven by fearless curiosity, he taught himself to navigate by clicking his tongue and listening for echoes -- a method science calls echolocation, and that Kish calls FlashSonar.

In 2000, Kish founded World Access for the Blind as a platform to teach FlashSonar, along with other methods that the blind can use to “see” and that the sighted can use to expand their awareness. Kish and many researchers believe that echolocation produces images similar to sight, and allows the visually impaired to transcend the limited expectations of society. 

More profile about the speaker
Daniel Kish | Speaker | TED.com
TED2015

Daniel Kish: How I use sonar to navigate the world

丹尼爾·基什: 我如何使用聲納在世界裡前行

Filmed:
1,393,516 views

在他 13 個月大時,丹尼爾·基什就失明了,但他學會利用回聲定位來「看」世界。他用舌頭發出嘀嗒聲,送出聲音。聲音撞擊到環境的表面,然後反彈給他,幫助他構建對周圍空間的理解。在獨樹一幟的演講中,丹尼爾·基什展示了他的方法是如何使用的,並呼籲我們解除對「未知黑暗」的恐懼。
- Perceptual navigation specialist
Daniel Kish expands the perceptual toolbox of both blind and sighted humans by teaching echolocation -- the ability to observe our surroundings via sound. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
(Clicking點擊)
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(滴答聲)
00:19
I was born天生 with bilateral雙邊 retinoblastoma視網膜母細胞瘤,
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我出生時就患有雙眼視網膜
00:24
retinal視網膜 cancer癌症.
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母細胞瘤。
00:27
My right eye was removed去除
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在我七個月大時
00:30
at seven months個月 of age年齡.
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我的右眼被移除。
00:33
I was 13 months個月
when they removed去除 my left eye.
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13 個月大時
他們把我的左眼移除了。
00:38
The first thing I did
upon awakening喚醒 from that last surgery手術
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我從最後一個手術後
醒來所做的第一件事是
00:43
was to climb out of my crib嬰兒床
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爬出我的嬰兒床
00:46
and begin開始 wandering飄零 around
the intensive集約 care關心 nursery苗圃,
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開始在重症監護嬰兒室裡亂逛,
00:51
probably大概 looking for the one
who did this to me.
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可能是在找那個把我弄成失明的人。
00:55
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
00:58
Evidently明顯地, wandering飄零 around the nursery苗圃
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顯然地,在嬰兒室裡亂逛
01:02
was not a problem問題 for me without eyes眼睛.
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對於沒有雙眼的我來說並不是問題。
01:05
The problem問題 was getting得到 caught抓住.
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問題是被抓住。
01:09
It's impressions印象 about blindness失明
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對失明的印象
01:12
that are far more threatening危險的
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遠比失明本身
01:16
to blind people than the blindness失明 itself本身.
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讓盲人更恐懼。
01:21
Think for a moment時刻 about
your own擁有 impressions印象 of blindness失明.
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想一下你自己對失明的印象。
01:25
Think about your reactions反應
when I first came來了 onto the stage階段,
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想一下當我剛上台時你的反應,
01:29
or the prospect展望 of your own擁有 blindness失明,
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想一下你自己失明,
01:33
or a loved喜愛 one going blind.
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或者愛的人將失明的景象。
01:37
The terror恐怖 is incomprehensible費解的
to most of us,
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對我們大多數人來說
恐懼難以想象,
01:42
because blindness失明
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因為失明被認為是
01:45
is thought to epitomize縮影 ignorance無知
and unawareness不了解,
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無知和無意識的縮影,
01:50
hapless倒霉蛋 exposure曝光 to the ravages蹂躪
of the dark黑暗 unknown未知.
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不幸地受到未知黑暗的折磨。
01:58
How poetic詩意.
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多麼詩意啊。
02:01
Fortunately幸好 for me,
my parents父母 were not poetic詩意.
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對我來說幸運的是,
我的父母沒有充滿詩意。
02:04
They were pragmatic務實.
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他們很務實。
02:06
They understood了解 that ignorance無知 and fear恐懼
were but matters事項 of the mind心神,
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他們明白
無知和恐懼僅僅是思想層面的問題,
02:13
and the mind心神 is adaptable適應性強.
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並且思想是可以改變的。
02:17
They believed相信 that I should grow增長 up
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他們認為我會長大
02:20
to enjoy請享用 the same相同 freedoms自由
and responsibilities責任 as everyone大家 else其他.
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享受和其他人一樣的自由與責任。
02:25
In their own擁有 words, I would move移動 out --
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用他們的話來說,我會搬出去住,
02:28
which哪一個 I did when I was 18 --
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我 18 歲時做了這事,
02:31
I will pay工資 taxes --
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我要繳稅。
02:33
thanks謝謝 --
(Laughter笑聲) --
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謝謝(笑聲)
02:37
and they knew知道 the difference區別
between之間 love and fear恐懼.
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他們知道愛和恐懼之間的區別。
02:42
Fear恐懼 immobilizes固定不變 us
in the face面對 of challenge挑戰.
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面對挑戰的時候
恐懼使我們無法移動。
02:47
They knew知道 that blindness失明
would pose提出 a significant重大 challenge挑戰.
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他們知道失明會構成重大的挑戰。
02:50
I was not raised上調 with fear恐懼.
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我並不是在恐懼中長大。
02:53
They put my freedom自由 first before all else其他,
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他們把我的自由
看得比其他東西都重要,
02:57
because that is what love does.
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因為那就是愛才會這麼做。
03:00
Now, moving移動 forward前鋒,
how do I manage管理 today今天?
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接下來,如今我是怎麼生存的?
03:06
The world世界 is a much larger nursery苗圃.
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世界是一個更大的育兒室。
03:09
Fortunately幸好, I have my trusty可靠 long cane甘蔗,
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幸運的是,
我有一支值得信賴的長手杖,
03:13
longer than the canes手杖
used by most blind people.
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比大多數盲人使用的手杖長。
03:16
I call it my freedom自由 staff員工.
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我把它叫做我的自由幫手。
03:19
It will keep me, for example,
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例如,它能阻止我,
03:20
from making製造 an undignified不體面
departure離開 from the stage階段. (Laughter笑聲)
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不體面地離開講台。(笑聲)
03:27
I do see that cliff懸崖 edge邊緣.
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我確實看到講台邊緣。
03:30
They warned警告 us earlier
that every一切 imaginable想像 mishap不測
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他們之前提醒我
演講者在台上遇到過各種事故,
03:33
has occurred發生 to speakers音箱
up here on the stage階段.
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03:37
I don't care關心 to set a new precedent先例.
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我不介意做一個先例。
03:40
But beyond that,
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但除此之外,
03:42
many許多 of you may可能 have heard聽說 me clicking點擊
as I came來了 onto the stage階段 --
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當我來到講台時
大家可能已經聽到我發出的滴答聲--
03:45
(Clicking點擊) --
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(滴答聲)
03:46
with my tongue.
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用舌頭發出的聲音。
03:48
Those are flashes閃爍 of sound聲音
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那些是聲音的反射
03:51
that go out and reflect反映
from surfaces all around me,
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從我身邊事物的表面反射出去,
03:56
just like a bat's蝙蝠的 sonar聲納,
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就像蝙蝠的聲納,
03:58
and return返回 to me with patterns模式,
with pieces of information信息,
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把圖案和資訊傳回給我,
04:03
much as light does for you.
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就像光反射給你們圖案和資訊一樣。
04:07
And my brain, thanks謝謝 to my parents父母,
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感謝我的父母,
04:10
has been activated活性 to form形成 images圖片
in my visual視覺 cortex皮質,
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我的大腦得到啟動
在視覺皮層裡形成圖像,
04:16
which哪一個 we now call the imaging成像 system系統,
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我們現在把它叫做成像系統,
04:19
from those patterns模式 of information信息,
much as your brain does.
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藉助資訊的結構形成圖像,
就像你們的大腦。
04:23
I call this process處理 flash sonar聲納.
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我稱這個過程為「閃光聲納」。
04:26
It is how I have learned學到了 to see
through通過 my blindness失明,
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我就是這樣學會在失明中看見東西,
04:32
to navigate導航 my journey旅程
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透過自我挑戰未知的黑暗
04:35
through通過 the dark黑暗 unknowns未知數
of my own擁有 challenges挑戰,
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駕馭我的旅程,
04:39
which哪一個 has earned me the moniker綽號
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我因此得了一個綽號
04:43
"the remarkable卓越 Batman蝙蝠俠."
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「神奇蝙蝠俠」。
04:47
Now, Batman蝙蝠俠 I will accept接受.
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我接受「蝙蝠俠」這個綽號。
04:49
Bats蝙蝠 are cool. Batman蝙蝠俠 is cool.
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蝙蝠很酷。蝙蝠俠也很酷。
04:53
But I was not raised上調 to think of myself
as in any way remarkable卓越.
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但是在成長的過程中
我不覺得自己在哪方面是奇特的。
04:59
I have always regarded認為 myself
much like anyone任何人 else其他
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我總是把自己看得和其它人一樣
05:03
who navigates可前往[ the dark黑暗 unknowns未知數
of their own擁有 challenges挑戰.
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他們也是在駕馭挑戰性的未知黑暗。
05:09
Is that so remarkable卓越?
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那很奇特嗎?
05:12
I do not use my eyes眼睛, I use my brain.
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我不用眼睛,我用我的大腦。
05:16
Now, someone有人, somewhere某處,
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此時某地的某人,
05:19
must必須 think that's remarkable卓越,
or I wouldn't不會 be up here,
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一定覺得那很奇特,
否則我不會在這裡,
05:23
but let's consider考慮 this for a moment時刻.
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但是我們思考一下。
05:27
Everyone大家 out there
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這裡的每一個人
05:29
who faces面孔 or who has ever
faced面對 a challenge挑戰,
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面臨或曾經面臨過挑戰的,
05:34
raise提高 your hands.
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舉起你們的手。
05:37
Whoosh. Okay.
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呼。 好的。
05:39
Lots of hands going up, a moment時刻,
let me do a head count計數.
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好多手舉起來,
等一下,我來數數。
05:42
(Clicking點擊)
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(滴答聲)
05:45
This will take a while.
(Clicking點擊) (Laughter笑聲)
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這需要一會兒。
(滴答聲)(笑聲)
05:48
Okay, lots of hands in the air空氣.
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好,空中有好多手。
05:50
Keep them up. I have an idea理念.
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一直舉着。我有一個主意。
05:52
Those of you who use your brains大腦
to navigate導航 these challenges挑戰,
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那些用大腦來克服挑戰的人,
05:58
put your hands down.
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放下你們的手。
06:02
Okay, anyone任何人 with your hands still up
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好的,還舉着手的人
06:05
has challenges挑戰 of your own擁有. (Laughter笑聲)
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面臨著自身的挑戰。(笑聲)
06:10
So we all face面對 challenges挑戰,
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我們都面臨著挑戰,
06:12
and we all face面對 the dark黑暗 unknown未知,
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我們都面臨著未知的黑暗,
06:16
which哪一個 is endemic流行 to most challenges挑戰,
which哪一個 is what most of us fear恐懼, okay?
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大多數挑戰普遍是這樣,
我們大多數人都害怕,對嗎?
06:20
But we all have brains大腦
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但我們都有大腦
06:24
that allow允許 us, that activate啟用 to allow允許 us
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大腦得到啟動
06:29
to navigate導航 the journey旅程
through通過 these challenges挑戰. Okay?
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讓我們在這些挑戰中駕馭旅程。
好嗎?
06:36
Case案件 in point: I came來了 up here
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一個很好的例子:我來到這裡
06:40
and -- (Clicking點擊) -- they wouldn't不會 tell me
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(滴答聲)
06:47
where the lectern講台 was.
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他們不告訴我講台在哪裡。
06:50
So you can't trust相信 those TEDTED folks鄉親.
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你們不能相信 TED 的工作人員。
06:54
"Find it yourself你自己," they said.
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他們說.:「自己找」,
06:56
So -- (Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
07:01
And the feedback反饋 for the P.A. system系統
is no help at all.
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而且廣播系統的反饋根本沒有幫助。
07:04
So now I present當下 to you a challenge挑戰.
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現在我向你們展現一個挑戰。
07:07
So if you'd all close your eyes眼睛
for just a moment時刻, okay?
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你們都閉上眼睛一會兒,好嗎?
07:11
And you're going to learn學習
a bit of flash sonar聲納.
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你們將要學一點閃光聲納。
07:15
I'm going to make a sound聲音.
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我準備弄出聲響。
07:17
I'm going to hold保持 this panel面板 in front面前
of me, but I'm not going to move移動 it.
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我會在我的前面舉着這塊平板
但不會移動這塊板。
07:20
Just listen to the sound聲音 for a moment時刻.
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聽一會兒我發出的聲音。
07:25
ShhhhhhhhhhShhhhhhhhhh.
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噓噓噓噓。
07:31
Okay, nothing very interesting有趣.
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好吧,沒什麼有趣的。
07:33
Now, listen to what happens發生
to that same相同 exact精確 sound聲音
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現在,我移動平板
07:36
when I move移動 the panel面板.
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聽聽同樣的聲音會有什麼變化。
07:39
ShhhhhhhhhhhShhhhhhhhhhh.
(Pitch瀝青 getting得到 higher更高 and lower降低)
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噓噓噓噓。
(音調時高時低)
07:50
You do not know the power功率
of the dark黑暗 side.
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你們不知道黑暗的力量。
07:53
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
07:55
I couldn't不能 resist.
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我情不自禁。
07:59
Okay, now keep your eyes眼睛 closed關閉
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好的,現在閉上你們的眼睛,
08:02
because, did you hear the difference區別?
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你們聽到差別了嗎?
08:04
Okay. Now, let's be sure.
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好的,讓我們來確認一下。
08:07
For your challenge挑戰,
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你們的挑戰是,
08:09
you tell me, just say "now"
when you hear the panel面板 start開始 to move移動.
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當我開始移動平板時
你們就要告訴我「現在」。
08:14
Okay? We'll relax放鬆 into this.
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好嗎?放鬆。
08:20
ShhhhhhhShhhhhhh.
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噓噓噓噓。
08:23
Audience聽眾: Now.
Daniel丹尼爾 Kish基什: Good. Excellent優秀.
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觀眾:現在。
丹尼爾·基什:好的。很棒。
08:25
Open打開 your eyes眼睛.
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睜開眼睛。
08:27
All right. So just a few少數 centimeters公分,
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好。只移動了幾厘米,
08:31
you would notice注意 the difference區別.
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你們可以注意到這種變化。
08:34
You've experienced有經驗的 sonar聲納.
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你們已經感受到聲納了。
08:37
You'd all make great blind people.
(Laughter笑聲)
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你們都變成了不起的盲人。
(笑聲)
08:40
Let's have a look at what can happen發生
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我們來看看
08:43
when this activation激活 process處理
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當給予啟動過程一些時間和關注
08:46
is given特定 some time and attention注意.
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會發生什麼。
08:51
(Video視頻) Juan胡安 Ruiz魯伊斯: It's like
you guys can see with your eyes眼睛
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(影片)胡安·鲁伊斯:
就像你們可以用眼睛去看
08:54
and we can see with our ears耳朵.
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我們可以用耳朵去看。
08:57
Brian布賴恩 BushwayBushway: It's not a matter
of enjoying享受 it more or less,
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布萊恩·布施威:
這不是欣賞多與少的問題,
09:00
it's about enjoying享受 it differently不同.
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而是從不同角度欣賞的問題。
09:03
Shawn肖恩 MarsolaisMarsolais: It goes across橫過.
DKDK: Yeah.
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尚恩·瑪索萊斯:穿過了。
丹尼爾·基什:是的。
09:06
SMSM: And then it's gradually逐漸
coming未來 back down again.
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尚恩·瑪索萊斯:
接着它逐漸再往下走。
09:10
DKDK: Yes!
SMSM: That's amazing驚人.
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丹尼爾·基什:對!
尚恩·瑪索萊斯:好神奇。
09:11
I can, like, see the car汽車. Holy mother母親!
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我可以看到汽車。
聖母馬利亞!
09:21
J. LouchartLouchart: I love being存在 blind.
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J. 盧沙爾:我喜歡當盲人。
09:24
If I had the opportunity機會, honestly老老實實,
I wouldn't不會 go back to being存在 sighted短視.
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說實話,如果有機會
我不打算重見光明了。
09:27
JRJR: The bigger the goal目標,
the more obstacles障礙 you'll你會 face面對,
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JR:目標越大,你面臨的障礙越多,
09:31
and on the other side of that goal目標
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在目標的另一邊
09:33
is victory勝利.
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是勝利。
09:35
[In Italian意大利]
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(意大利語)
09:40
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
09:50
DKDK: Now, do these people look terrified?
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丹尼爾·基什:
這些人看上去很害怕嗎?
09:54
Not so much.
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不是很害怕。
09:56
We have delivered交付 activation激活 training訓練
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我們把激活訓練傳授給
09:58
to tens of thousands數千 of blind
and sighted短視 people from all backgrounds背景
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成千上萬的盲人
以及來自各種背景的有視力的人
10:02
in nearly幾乎 40 countries國家.
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遍及 40 個國家。
10:04
When blind people learn學習 to see,
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當盲人學會看見,
10:09
sighted短視 people seem似乎 inspired啟發
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有視力的人似乎受到啟發
10:12
to want to learn學習 to see their way
better, more clearly明確地, with less fear恐懼,
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想要學會更好更清晰
沒那麼畏懼地看清他們的路,
10:18
because this exemplifies例證了
the immense巨大 capacity容量 within us all
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因為這證明了我們巨大的能力
10:24
to navigate導航 any type類型 of challenge挑戰,
through通過 any form形成 of darkness黑暗,
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在任何黑暗中,
駕馭任何一種類型的挑戰,
10:31
to discoveries發現 unimagined無法想像
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發現無法想象的東西
10:34
when we are activated活性.
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只要我們受到激活。
10:39
I wish希望 you all a most activating激活 journey旅程.
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我希望你們擁有一個激勵的旅程。
10:45
Thank you very much.
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非常感謝大家。
10:47
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
10:55
Chris克里斯 Anderson安德森: Daniel丹尼爾, my friend朋友.
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克里斯·安德森:丹尼爾,我的朋友。
10:58
As I know you can see, it's
a spectacular壯觀 standing常設 ovation歡呼 at TEDTED.
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我知道你看得到,
TED 觀眾的熱烈的掌聲。
11:03
Thank you for an extraordinary非凡 talk.
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謝謝你出色的演講。
11:06
Just one more question about your world世界,
your inner world世界 that you construct構造.
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還有一個問題
關於你所建立的內心世界。
11:11
We think that we have things in our world世界
that you as a blind person don't have,
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我們認為在我們的世界中
我們擁有你們盲人沒有的事物,
11:17
but what's your world世界 like?
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但是你們的世界是怎樣的?
11:18
What do you have that we don't have?
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你們擁有我們所沒有的東西是什麼?
11:21
DKDK: Three hundred and sixty-degree六十度 view視圖,
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丹尼爾·基什:360 度視角,
11:24
so my sonar聲納 works作品 about as well
behind背後 me as it does in front面前 of me.
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我的聲納在身後也像身前一樣有用。
11:28
It works作品 around corners角落.
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在角落處也管用。
11:30
It works作品 through通過 surfaces.
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它可以穿過表面
11:34
Generally通常, it's kind of a fuzzy模糊
three-dimensional三維 geometry幾何.
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總而言之,
這是一個模糊的三維幾何世界。
11:39
One of my students學生們, who has now
become成為 an instructor講師,
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我有一個學生,現在是名教員,
11:43
when he lost丟失 his vision視力,
after a few少數 months個月
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當他失明幾個月後,
11:46
he was sitting坐在 in his three story故事 house
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他坐在三層樓高的家裡
11:48
and he realized實現 that he could hear
everything going on throughout始終 the house:
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意識到他能聽到屋裡
正在發生的一切東西:
11:52
conversations對話, people in the kitchen廚房,
people in the bathroom浴室,
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對話,廚房和浴室裡的人們
11:56
several一些 floors地板 away, several一些 walls牆壁 away.
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幾層樓之外,幾牆之隔。
11:59
He said it was something
like having x-rayX-射線 vision視力.
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他說就像擁有 X 射線一樣的視力。
12:02
CACA: What do you picture圖片
that you're in right now?
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安德森·丹尼爾:
你怎樣描繪現在身處的地方?
12:06
How do you picture圖片 this theater劇院?
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你怎樣描述這個劇院?
12:09
DKDK: Lots of loudspeakers擴音器, quite相當 frankly坦率地說.
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丹尼爾·基什:
坦白說,很多大聲說話的人。
12:16
It's interesting有趣.
When people make a sound聲音,
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很有趣。
當人們發出聲音,
12:20
when they laugh, when they fidget煩躁不安的人,
when they take a drink or blow打擊 their nose鼻子
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當他們笑,當他們坐立不安
當他們喝飲料或者擤鼻子
12:25
or whatever隨你, I hear everything.
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不管是做什麼,我都能聽到。
12:28
I hear every一切 little movement運動
that every一切 single person makes品牌.
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我聽到每個人做出的細微動作。
12:31
None沒有 of it really escapes逃逸 my attention注意,
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它們都沒能逃過我的注意,
12:34
and then, from a sonar聲納 perspective透視,
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從聲納的角度來說,
12:36
the size尺寸 of the room房間, the curvature曲率
of the audience聽眾 around the stage階段,
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房間的大小,觀眾繞講台的曲率,
12:42
it's the height高度 of the room房間.
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房間的高度。
12:45
Like I say, it's all that kind
of three-dimensional三維 surface表面 geometry幾何
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就像我說的,
這是環繞我的是
12:49
all around me.
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三維平面幾何世界。
12:50
CACA: Well, Daniel丹尼爾, you have doneDONE
a spectacular壯觀 job工作
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安德森·丹尼爾:
丹尼爾,你的演講很棒,
12:52
of helping幫助 us all see the world世界
in a different不同 way.
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幫助我們從一個不同的方式來看世界。
12:55
Thanks謝謝 so much for that, truly.
DKDK: Thank you.
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真誠地感謝你。
丹尼爾·基什:謝謝。
12:57
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
Translated by melo li
Reviewed by Yamei Huang

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Daniel Kish - Perceptual navigation specialist
Daniel Kish expands the perceptual toolbox of both blind and sighted humans by teaching echolocation -- the ability to observe our surroundings via sound.

Why you should listen

When he was 13 months old, Daniel Kish lost both eyes to retinal cancer. Driven by fearless curiosity, he taught himself to navigate by clicking his tongue and listening for echoes -- a method science calls echolocation, and that Kish calls FlashSonar.

In 2000, Kish founded World Access for the Blind as a platform to teach FlashSonar, along with other methods that the blind can use to “see” and that the sighted can use to expand their awareness. Kish and many researchers believe that echolocation produces images similar to sight, and allows the visually impaired to transcend the limited expectations of society. 

More profile about the speaker
Daniel Kish | Speaker | TED.com