ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Aspen Baker - Listener
As abortion debates have turned black-and-white, Aspen Baker advocates being "pro-voice" -- listening respectfully and compassionately to all kinds of experiences.

Why you should listen
When Aspen Baker had an abortion at 24, she felt caught between warring pro-life and pro-choice factions, with no space to share her feelings. So she cofounded Exhale, a nonprofit that offers women and men emotional support after an abortion, free of judgment and politics. After being constantly asked to pick a side in the abortion conflict, Baker and her cofounders started a new conversation.

Leaving the black-and-white debate behind, they embraced the gray areas and personal stories hidden behind the fight. They invented “pro-voice,” a philosophy and practice that uses listening and storytelling to help people have respectful, compassionate exchanges about abortion, and many other controversial topics. Called a “fun, fearless female” by Cosmopolitan, Baker is an award-winning leader and author of Pro-Voice: How to Keep Listening When the World Wants a Fight.
More profile about the speaker
Aspen Baker | Speaker | TED.com
TEDWomen 2015

Aspen Baker: A better way to talk about abortion

亞絲萍·貝克: 更適當談論墮胎的方法

Filmed:
1,791,168 views

墮胎極為普遍。以美國為例,每三名婦女就有一位會在一生中墮過胎,然而這個話題引發的火爆情緒,以及高度政治化的爭論,幾乎沒有留下深思明辯的空間。亞絲萍·貝克以切身的經驗,在這段富含思想的演講中,呼籲大家不要在「選擇權」或「生命權」上打轉,而是選擇「優聲權」。她並解釋在討論棘手話題時,「優聲權」的「聽故事與講故事」能發揮什麼功能。
- Listener
As abortion debates have turned black-and-white, Aspen Baker advocates being "pro-voice" -- listening respectfully and compassionately to all kinds of experiences. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
It was the middle中間 of summer夏季
and well past過去 closing關閉 time
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那是仲夏的某日,
早過了打烊的時間,
00:15
in the downtown市中心 Berkeley伯克利 bar酒吧
where my friend朋友 Polly波莉 and I
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在柏克萊鬧區一間小酒吧裡,
我和我的朋友波莉
00:17
worked工作 together一起 as bartenders調酒師.
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在裡面當酒保。
00:20
Usually平時 at the end結束 of our shift轉移
we had a drink -- but not that night.
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通常我們會在下班後小酌一番,
但那晚沒有。
00:25
"I'm pregnant.
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「我懷孕了。
我還不知道該怎麼辦。」
00:27
Not sure what I'm going
to do yet然而," I told Polly波莉.
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我這樣告訴波莉。
00:30
Without沒有 hesitation猶豫, she replied回答,
"I've had an abortion流產."
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沒有一絲猶豫,她回答,
「我以前墮過胎。」
00:34
Before Polly波莉, no one had ever told me
that she'd had an abortion流產.
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波莉是第一個告訴我
曾有過墮胎經驗的人。
00:40
I'd graduated畢業 from college學院
just a few少數 months個月 earlier
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我在那之前幾個月才從大學畢業,
00:43
and I was in a new relationship關係
when I found發現 out that I was pregnant.
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剛交了個新男朋友,
卻發現我懷孕了。
00:47
When I thought about my choices選擇,
I honestly老老實實 did not know how to decide決定,
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我考慮著各式選項,
真的不知道該如何抉擇,
00:52
what criteria標準 I should use.
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該用什麼標準。
00:55
How would I know what
the right decision決定 was?
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我怎麼知道哪個才是正確的決定?
00:58
I worried擔心 that I would regret後悔
an abortion流產 later後來.
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我擔心我會後悔墮胎。
01:03
Coming未來 of age年齡 on the beaches海灘
of Southern南部的 California加州,
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成年前在南加海灘悠遊的我,
01:05
I grew成長 up in the middle中間 of
our nation's國家 abortion流產 wars戰爭.
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在這個國家的墮胎權之爭中長大。
01:09
I was born天生 in a trailer預告片 on the third第三
anniversary週年 of Roe魚子 vsVS. Wade.
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「羅訴韋德案」判決後三週年,
我在一輛小拖車中出生。
01:15
Our community社區 was surfing衝浪 Christians基督徒.
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我們的社區是愛衝浪的基督徒。
01:18
We cared照顧 about God, the less fortunate幸運,
and the ocean海洋.
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我們的心中掛念著神、
困乏的人,和海洋。
01:22
Everyone大家 was pro-life親生活.
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每個人都反對墮胎。
01:24
As a kid孩子, the idea理念 of abortion流產 made製作 me so
sad傷心 that I knew知道 if I ever got pregnant
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孩童時,墮胎這個概念
讓我非常難過,
我知道如果我懷孕了,
我一定不要墮胎。
01:30
I could never have one.
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01:33
And then I did.
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結果我做了。
01:36
It was a step towards the unknown未知.
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路途茫茫的一步。
01:39
But Polly波莉 had given特定 me
a very special特別 gift禮品:
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但是波莉給了我
一項非常特別的禮物:
01:42
the knowledge知識 that I wasn't alone單獨
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我知道我不是獨自受苦,
01:44
and the realization實現 that abortion流產
was something that we can talk about.
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我也領悟到原來墮胎
是可以拿出來談的。
01:49
Abortion流產 is common共同.
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墮胎很普遍。
01:51
According根據 to the Guttmacher古特馬赫 Institute研究所,
one in three women婦女 in America美國
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據古馬社機構所說,
每三位美國婦女
01:54
will have an abortion流產 in their lifetime一生.
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就有一位會在一生中墮胎。
02:00
But for the last few少數 decades幾十年, the dialogue對話
around abortion流產 in the United聯合的 States狀態
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但是在美國,
過去幾十年對墮胎的對話
02:04
has left little room房間 for anything beyond
pro-life親生活 and pro-choice親選擇.
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侷限在生命權對選擇權的討論。
02:07
It's political政治 and polarizing偏振.
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很政治化及兩極化。
02:10
But as much as abortion流產 is hotly激烈 debated辯論,
it's still rare罕見 for us,
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即使墮胎的爭論如火如荼,
對我們而言,
02:14
whether是否 as fellow同伴 women婦女
or even just as fellow同伴 people,
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不管是同為女性,
或僅是同為人,
02:18
to talk with one another另一個
about the abortions人工流產 that we have.
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我們仍然很難討論
彼此墮胎的經驗。
02:24
There is a gap間隙.
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有一道鴻溝,
02:25
Between之間 what happens發生 in politics政治
and what happens發生 in real真實 life,
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介在政治議題與現實生活間。
02:29
and in that gap間隙, a battlefield戰場 mentality心理.
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而在那道鴻溝中,
存著殺戮戰場的心態。
02:31
An "are you with us
or against反對 us?" stance姿態 takes root.
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「非友即敵」的立場根深蒂固。
02:36
This isn't just about abortion流產.
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這不僅限於墮胎議題。
02:38
There are so many許多 important重要 issues問題
that we can't talk about.
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還有很多重要的問題
我們都不能說。
02:44
And so finding發現 ways方法 to shift轉移 the conflict衝突
to a place地點 of conversation會話
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所以想辦法將衝突改變為對話,
02:49
is the work of my life.
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是我畢生的工作。
02:53
There are two main主要 ways方法 to get started開始.
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有兩個重要的方法可以著手。
02:56
One way is to listen closely密切.
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一個是仔細聆聽,
02:58
And the other way is to share分享 stories故事.
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另一個就是分享故事。
03:03
So, 15 years年份 ago, I cofounded共同創立
an organization組織 called Exhale
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15 年前,我與人共創一家
名叫「舒氣」的組織,
03:06
to start開始 listening to people
who have had abortions人工流產.
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開始傾聽人們墮胎的心聲。
03:10
The first thing we did was create創建
a talk-line談話線, where women婦女 and men男人
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首先我們成立一條輔導專線,
不分男女都能打電話進來,
在情緒上得到支持。
03:13
could call to get emotional情緒化 support支持.
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03:16
Free自由 of judgment判斷 and politics政治,
believe it or not, nothing like our sevice服務隊
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這裡沒有論斷,也不談政治。
信不信,像我們這樣的服務
03:21
had ever existed存在.
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從不曾出現過。
03:24
We needed需要 a new framework骨架 that could
hold保持 all the experiences經驗 that we were
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我們需要新的架構能包容
我們在專線上聽到的所有經歷。
03:28
hearing聽力 on our talk-line談話線.
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03:30
The feminist女權主義者 who regrets遺憾 her abortion流產.
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女性主義者後悔墮了胎;
03:33
The Catholic天主教徒 who is grateful感激 for hers她的.
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天主教徒慶幸墮了胎。
03:36
The personal個人 experiences經驗 that weren't
fitting配件 neatly整潔 into one box or the other.
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個人的經歷無法套進現有的框框。
03:41
We didn't think it was right
to ask women婦女 to pick a side.
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我們無法認同要求婦女選邊站。
03:45
We wanted to show顯示 them that
the whole整個 world世界 was on their side,
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我們想讓她們知道
在她們度過這段深切的個人經歷時,
整個世界都站在她們那邊。
03:50
as they were going through通過 this deeply
personal個人 experience經驗.
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03:54
So we invented發明 "pro-voice親聲音."
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所以我們創立了「優聲權」。
03:58
Beyond abortion流產, pro-voice親聲音 works作品 on hard
issues問題 that we've我們已經 struggled掙扎 with globally全球
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除了墮胎,優聲權還處理
全球歷時多年的棘手問題,
04:02
for years年份,
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04:04
issues問題 like immigration移民, religious宗教
tolerance公差, violence暴力 against反對 women婦女.
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像是移民、宗教寬容、
對婦女施暴等問題。
04:09
It also works作品 on deeply personal個人 topics主題
that might威力 only matter to you
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它也處理切身的個人問題,
只有你自己、
04:13
and your immediate即時 family家庭 and friends朋友.
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你的直系親屬及摯友才會關心。
04:15
They have a terminal終奌站 illness疾病,
their mother母親 just died死亡,
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有人得了絕症,
有人的母親剛去世,
04:19
they have a child兒童 with special特別 needs需求
and they can't talk about it.
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有人的孩子需要特殊教育
卻無法拿出來談。
04:25
Listening聽力 and storytelling評書 are
the hallmarks特點 of pro-voice親聲音 practice實踐.
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聽故事與講故事
是優聲權的兩大特點。
04:31
Listening聽力 and storytelling評書.
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聽故事與講故事,
04:33
That sounds聲音 pretty漂亮 nice不錯.
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聽起來很美好。
04:35
Sounds聲音 maybe, easy簡單?
We could all do that.
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聽起來好像很容易?
我們都會做。
04:39
It's not easy簡單.
It's very hard.
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這並不容易,而且非常難。
04:42
Pro-voice臨聲音 is hard because we are talking
about things everyone's大家的 fighting戰鬥 about
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優聲權很難,因為我們在談的,
是每個人都在爭論
04:48
or the things that no one
wants to talk about.
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或沒有人想提出來談的事。
04:51
I wish希望 I could tell you that when you
decide決定 to be pro-voice親聲音, that you'll你會 find
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我真希望我能告訴你,
當你決定要「優聲」,
你會發現突破的美麗瞬間,
園子開滿了鮮花,
04:58
beautiful美麗 moments瞬間 of breakthrough突破
and gardens花園 full充分 of flowers花卉,
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05:02
where listening and storytelling評書
creates創建 wonderful精彩 "a-ha一公頃" moments瞬間.
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在那裡,講故事與說故事
能產生美妙的頓悟時刻。
05:07
I wish希望 I could tell you that there would
be a feminist女權主義者 welcoming歡迎 party派對 for you,
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我真希望我能告訴你
會有一個女權歡迎會在等著你,
05:11
or that there's a long-lost久未 sisterhood姐妹
of people who are just ready準備
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或是你久違的姊妹淘
在你被徹底擊敗時
張手等你回來。
05:14
to have your back when you get slammed抨擊.
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05:18
But it can be vulnerable弱勢 and exhausting辛苦
to tell our own擁有 stories故事
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但是訴說自己的故事
卻讓你身心俱疲,
05:22
when it feels感覺 like nobody沒有人 cares管它.
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尤其在你覺得沒人在乎的時候。
05:26
And if we truly listen to one another另一個,
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如果我們真的傾聽彼此,
05:30
we will hear things that demand需求
that we shift轉移 our own擁有 perceptions看法.
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我們會聽到
需要我們設身處地的故事。
05:37
There is no perfect完善 time
and there is no perfect完善 place地點
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永遠沒有
完美的時刻與完美的地點
05:40
to start開始 a difficult conversation會話.
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來展開艱難的對話。
05:43
There's never a time when everyone大家 will be
on the same相同 page, share分享 the same相同 lens鏡片,
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永遠不會有什麼時刻,
大家想法一致、看法一致,
05:49
or know the same相同 history歷史.
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或經歷相同的過去。
05:53
So, let's talk about listening
and how to be a good listener傾聽者.
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所以,就來談談傾聽的技巧,
怎樣變成好的聆聽者。
05:58
There's lots of ways方法 to be a good listener傾聽者
and I'm going to give you just a couple一對.
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有很多方法能成為好的聆聽者,
我在這裡跟大家說幾個。
06:02
One is to ask open-ended打開端 questions問題.
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其中一個就是要問開放式問題。
06:05
You can ask yourself你自己 or someone有人
that you know,
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你能問自己或你認識的人:
06:08
"How are you feeling感覺?"
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「你覺得如何?」
06:11
"What was that like?"
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「那像什麼?」
06:14
"What do you hope希望 for, now?"
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「你現在希望怎麼辦?」
06:18
Another另一個 way to be a good listener傾聽者
is to use reflective反光 language語言.
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另一個成為好的聆聽者的方法
是用反映語法。
06:22
If someone有人 is talking about
their own擁有 personal個人 experience經驗,
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如果有人在談他們的個人經驗,
06:25
use the words that they use.
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你要用他們用的字。
06:28
If someone有人 is talking about an abortion流產
and they say the word "baby寶寶,"
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如果有人在談墮胎時
用了「寶貝」這個字,
06:31
you can say "baby寶寶."
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你也可以用「寶貝」。
06:33
If they say "fetus胎兒,"
you can say "fetus胎兒."
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如果他們說「胎兒」,
你也可以說「胎兒」。
06:36
If someone有人 describes介紹 themselves他們自己
as gender性別 queer同性戀者 to you,
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如果他們對你描述自己
是性別酷兒,
06:39
you can say "gender性別 queer同性戀者."
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你也可以說性別酷兒。
06:41
If someone有人 kind of looks容貌 like a he,
but they say they're a she -- it's cool.
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如果某人看起來像是男的,
可是他說他自己是女的,
那也沒關係,就稱他是女性。
06:45
Call that person a she.
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06:48
When we reflect反映 the language語言 of the person
who is sharing分享 their own擁有 story故事,
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當我們反映分享者的語言時,
06:51
we are conveying輸送 that we are interested有興趣
in understanding理解 who they are
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我們就傳達出
我們想瞭解他們是誰,
06:57
and what they're going through通過.
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及他們經歷的一切。
06:59
The same相同 way that we hope希望 people are
interested有興趣 in knowing會心 us.
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就跟我們希望別人
也會想瞭解我們一樣。
07:05
So, I'll never forget忘記 being存在 in one
of the Exhale counselor顧問 meetings會議,
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所以,我永遠都忘不了
在某次舒氣輔導員會議上,
07:08
listening to a volunteer志願者 talk about how
she was getting得到 a lot of calls電話
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聽一位志工說她如何面對
07:12
from Christian基督教 women婦女 who
were talking about God.
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許多女基督徒在電話上
談到神的故事。
07:16
Now, some of our volunteers志願者 are religious宗教,
but this particular特定 one was not.
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我們有些志工是信教的,
但這位不是。
07:20
At first, it felt a little weird奇怪的 for her
to talk to callers呼叫者 about God.
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一開始,她覺得跟
來電者談神有點怪。
07:24
So, she decided決定 to get comfortable自在.
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所以她決定要讓自己自在一點。
07:27
And she stood站在 in front面前 of her mirror鏡子
at home, and she said the word "God."
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她在家裡站在鏡子前
說「神」。
07:31
"God."
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「神」。
07:32
"God."
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「神」。
07:33
"God."
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「神」。
07:34
"God."
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「神」。
07:35
"God."
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「神」。
07:36
"God."
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「神」。
07:37
Over and over and over again
until直到 the word no longer felt strange奇怪
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一次又一次的說,
直到從她口中說出這個字
07:41
coming未來 out her mouth.
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不再感到奇怪。
07:43
Saying the word God did not turn this
volunteer志願者 into a Christian基督教,
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說神這個字沒有
讓這位志工成為基督徒,
07:47
but it did make her a much
better listener傾聽者 of Christian基督教 women婦女.
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但這的確讓她在面對基督徒婦女時
成為更好的聆聽者。
07:54
So, another另一個 way to be pro-voice親聲音
is to share分享 stories故事,
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那麼,另一個成為
「優聲」的方法是分享故事。
07:58
and one risk風險 that you take on, when you
share分享 your story故事 with someone有人 else其他,
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你跟別人分享自己的故事時,
你要承擔的風險是,
08:02
is that given特定 the same相同
set of circumstances情況 as you
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就算聽者跟你的處境相同,
08:05
they might威力 actually其實
make a different不同 decision決定.
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他們也可能做出不同的決定。
08:09
For example, if you're telling告訴 a story故事
about your abortion流產,
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舉例來說,
你說了自己墮胎的故事,
08:13
realize實現 that she might威力 have had the baby寶寶.
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卻發現她可能留下孩子。
08:18
She might威力 have placed放置 for adoption採用.
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她也可能送人領養。
08:21
She might威力 have told her parents父母
and her partner夥伴 -- or not.
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她可能告訴她的父母或同居人,
也可能沒說。
08:26
She might威力 have felt relief浮雕 and confidence置信度,
even though雖然 you felt sad傷心 and lost丟失.
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她可能覺得鬆了口氣、很有把握,
而你卻覺得悲慘失落。
08:32
This is okay.
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這沒關係。
08:35
Empathy同情 gets得到 created創建 the moment時刻 we
imagine想像 ourselves我們自己 in someone有人 else's別人的 shoes.
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同理心在我們
設身處地的瞬間就產生了。
08:41
It doesn't mean we all have
to end結束 up in the same相同 place地點.
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這不代表我們會有一樣的結局。
08:46
It's not agreement協議, it's not sameness千篇一律
that pro-voice親聲音 is after.
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優聲權追求的
並非同意、並非一致。
08:53
It creates創建 a culture文化 and a society社會 that
values what make us special特別 and unique獨特.
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它創造一種文化、一個社會,
珍視讓我們獨特的差異。
08:59
It values what makes品牌 us human人的,
our flaws破綻 and our imperfections缺陷.
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它珍視我們之所以為人的一切,
我們的缺陷和我們的不完美。
09:04
And this way of thinking思維 allows允許 us to see
our differences分歧 with respect尊重,
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這種思維讓我們尊重彼此的不同,
09:09
instead代替 of fear恐懼.
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而不是恐懼。
09:12
And it generates生成 the empathy同情 that we need
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而如此就產生我們所需的同理心,
09:14
to overcome克服 all the ways方法
that we try to hurt傷害 one another另一個.
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以克服試圖傷害彼此的一切。
09:18
Stigma柱頭, shame恥辱, prejudice偏見,
discrimination區別, oppression壓迫.
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汙名、恥辱、偏見、歧視、壓迫。
09:24
Pro-voice臨聲音 is contagious傳染性的,
and the more it's practiced
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優聲權具感染力,
練習愈多,傳染愈快。
09:29
the more it spreads利差.
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09:35
So, last year I was pregnant again.
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去年我又懷孕了。
09:38
This time I was looking forward前鋒
to the birth分娩 of my son兒子.
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這次我很期待我兒子出生。
09:42
And while pregnant, I had never been asked
how I was feeling感覺 so much in all my life.
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懷孕時,我接受到的關心
真是一生中最多的階段。
09:48
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
09:50
And however然而 I replied回答, whether是否 I was
feeling感覺 wonderful精彩 and excited興奮
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無論我如何回答,
是覺得好奇妙、好興奮,
09:54
or scared害怕 and totally完全 freaked嚇壞 out,
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還是很害怕、完全嚇壞了,
09:57
there was always someone有人 there
giving me a "been there" response響應.
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總有人對我說:
「我也是過來人。」
10:01
It was awesome真棒.
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真棒。
10:03
It was a welcome歡迎, yet然而 dramatic戲劇性
departure離開 from what I experience經驗
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這是個令人愉快、戲劇性的再出發,
揮別我五味雜陳的墮胎經驗。
10:08
when I talk about
my mixed feelings情懷 of my abortion流產.
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10:13
Pro-voice臨聲音 is about the real真實 stories故事
of real真實 people
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優聲權要的是用真人真事,
10:16
making製造 an impact碰撞 on the way abortion流產
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衝擊大家對墮胎
10:19
and so many許多 other politicized政治
and stigmatized污名化 issues問題
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及其他被政治化、汙名化的議題
10:23
are understood了解 and discussed討論.
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所持的看法及爭論。
10:25
From sexuality性慾 and mental心理 health健康
to poverty貧窮 and incarceration監禁.
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從性取向、心理健康、
貧窮到監禁都是。
10:31
Far beyond definition定義
as single right or wrong錯誤 decisions決定,
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我們的經歷形形色色,
遠遠超過二分法的定義。
10:35
our experiences經驗 can exist存在 on a spectrum光譜.
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10:40
Pro-voice臨聲音 focuses重點 that conversation會話
on human人的 experience經驗
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優聲權的重點
是人類經歷的對話,
10:44
and it makes品牌 support支持 and respect尊重
possible可能 for all.
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並支持及尊重所有可能。
10:50
Thank you.
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謝謝。
10:52
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
Translated by Regina Chu
Reviewed by Marssi Draw

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Aspen Baker - Listener
As abortion debates have turned black-and-white, Aspen Baker advocates being "pro-voice" -- listening respectfully and compassionately to all kinds of experiences.

Why you should listen
When Aspen Baker had an abortion at 24, she felt caught between warring pro-life and pro-choice factions, with no space to share her feelings. So she cofounded Exhale, a nonprofit that offers women and men emotional support after an abortion, free of judgment and politics. After being constantly asked to pick a side in the abortion conflict, Baker and her cofounders started a new conversation.

Leaving the black-and-white debate behind, they embraced the gray areas and personal stories hidden behind the fight. They invented “pro-voice,” a philosophy and practice that uses listening and storytelling to help people have respectful, compassionate exchanges about abortion, and many other controversial topics. Called a “fun, fearless female” by Cosmopolitan, Baker is an award-winning leader and author of Pro-Voice: How to Keep Listening When the World Wants a Fight.
More profile about the speaker
Aspen Baker | Speaker | TED.com