ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jon Ronson - Writer, filmmaker
Jon Ronson is a writer and documentary filmmaker who dips into every flavor of madness, extremism and obsession.

Why you should listen

For his latest book, So You've Been Publicly Shamed, Jon Ronson spent three years traveling the world and talking to people who'd been subjected to high-profile public shamings. Whatever their transgression, the response was to be faced by an angry mob, as Ronson calls them "collective outrage circles" devoted to tearing down said person from any position of power. It does not, Ronson suggests gently, reflect so well on society as a whole.

In a previous book, The Psychopath Test, Ronson explored the unnerving world of psychopaths -- a group that includes both incarcerated killers and, one of his subjects insists, plenty of CEOs. In his books, films and articles, Ronson explores madness and obsession of all kinds, from the US military's experiments in psychic warfare to the obscene and hate-filled yet Christian rap of the Insane Clown Posse. He wrote a column for the Guardian, hosted an essay program on Radio 4 in the United Kingdom, and contributes to This American Life.

More profile about the speaker
Jon Ronson | Speaker | TED.com
TEDGlobalLondon

Jon Ronson: When online shaming goes too far

強.朗森: 當網路霸凌走調失控時會怎樣呢?

Filmed:
3,565,658 views

長久以來,強.朗森縱情於推特讓沈默的人有了聲音,該社群媒體平台給了我們所有人說出心底話,以及在發現不公不義時做回擊的機會。不過一路走來,事情逐漸逆轉,在這個熱情洋溢、深得人心的演說中,朗森討論我們往往表現的像叫囂的暴民。是重新思考如何與他人在網路上做互動的時候了。
- Writer, filmmaker
Jon Ronson is a writer and documentary filmmaker who dips into every flavor of madness, extremism and obsession. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
In the early days of Twitter推特,
it was like a place地點 of radical激進 de-shaming去羞辱.
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在「推特」早先的日子裡
它像是一個徹底擺脫羞愧的地方,
00:17
People would admit承認
shameful可恥 secrets秘密 about themselves他們自己,
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大家會招認有關自己丟臉的小祕密,
00:20
and other people would say,
"Oh my God, I'm exactly究竟 the same相同."
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而其他人會說「我的天!
我完全一模一樣耶!」,
00:24
Voiceless無聲 people realized實現
that they had a voice語音,
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講話沒人在意者瞭解了
他們有個聲音能被聽到,
而且這聲音力量十足又深得人心,
00:27
and it was powerful強大 and eloquent雄辯.
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00:30
If a newspaper報紙 ran some racist種族主義者
or homophobic同性戀 column,
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如果有報紙刊登某些種族主義
或是憎惡同性戀的專欄,
我們知道我們可以做點事情、
00:35
we realized實現 we could do
something about it.
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00:37
We could get them.
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我們可以逮住他們、
00:39
We could hit擊中 them with a weapon武器
that we understood了解 but they didn't --
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我們可以用我們比他們瞭解的武器來攻擊他們
-社群媒體霸凌。
00:42
a social社會 media媒體 shaming羞辱.
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廣告主會撤走廣告。
00:45
Advertisers廣告商 would withdraw收回
their advertising廣告.
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00:48
When powerful強大 people
misused誤用 their privilege特權,
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當有力人士濫用其權勢
我們將會逮住他們,
00:51
we were going to get them.
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00:54
This was like the
democratization民主化 of justice正義.
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這就像是民主式的正義,
00:57
Hierarchies層次結構 were being存在 leveled夷為平地 out.
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階級被夷平了,
我們將會把事情做的更棒。
00:59
We were going to do things better.
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01:02
Soon不久 after that, a disgraced灰頭土臉
pop流行的 science科學 writer作家 called Jonah約拿 Lehrer萊勒 --
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沒多久,一名顏面盡失的流行科學寫手
喬納. 雷爾
01:06
he'd他會 been caught抓住 plagiarizing剽竊
and faking偽造 quotes報價,
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他被抓到抄襲以及竄改引用資料,
01:10
and he was drenched濕透 in shame恥辱
and regret後悔, he told me.
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他跟我說他滿腹羞愧與懊悔;
而他有機會,
在一個午餐大會上公開道歉,
01:13
And he had the opportunity機會
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01:15
to publicly公然 apologize道歉
at a foundation基礎 lunch午餐.
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01:19
This was going to be the most
important重要 speech言語 of his life.
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這將會是他這輩子最重要的發言,
01:22
Maybe it would win贏得 him some salvation救恩.
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或許這會為他帶來一些救贖。
早在他抵達前他已經知道
01:25
He knew知道 before he arrived到達
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01:26
that the foundation基礎 was going to be
live-streaming即時串流 his event事件,
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該大會打算線上直播他的道歉事件,
不過直到他抵達前他所不知道的事,
01:29
but what he didn't know
until直到 he turned轉身 up,
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01:31
was that they'd他們會 erected架設 a giant巨人 screen屏幕
Twitter推特 feed飼料 right next下一個 to his head.
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是他們已經在他的頭旁邊豎立起
一個即時推特直播的大螢幕;
01:36
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
01:38
Another另一個 one in a monitor監控 screen屏幕
in his eye line.
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另一個螢幕就在他眼前。
我不認為大會這麼做是因為它們邪惡,
01:40
I don't think the foundation基礎 did this
because they were monstrous滔天.
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我認為他們純粹是搞不清楚狀況;
我認為那是一個特別的時刻,
01:44
I think they were clueless無知:
I think this was a unique獨特 moment時刻
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01:47
when the beautiful美麗 naivety天真爛漫 of Twitter推特
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當推特美好的純真
正成為越來越恐怖的現實。
01:49
was hitting the increasingly日益
horrific可怕的 reality現實.
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01:53
And here were some of the Tweets推文
that were cascading級聯 into his eye line,
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當他想要道歉時,
這裡是湧入他眼簾的
某些推特推文 -
01:57
as he was trying to apologize道歉:
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01:58
"Jonah約拿 Lehrer萊勒, boring無聊 us
into forgiving寬容 him."
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「喬納. 雷爾想煩我們
煩到饒過他呢。」
(笑聲)
02:02
(Laughter笑聲)
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以及「喬納. 雷爾尚無法證明
他有羞恥心」,
02:03
And, "Jonah約拿 Lehrer萊勒 has not proven證明
that he is capable of feeling感覺 shame恥辱."
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02:08
That one must必須 have been written書面
by the best最好 psychiatrist心理醫生 ever,
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那則推文必定是至今以來最棒的
精神科醫師所寫的,
才能看到人所不能見之事;
02:12
to know that about such這樣
a tiny figure數字 behind背後 a lectern講台.
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02:16
And, "Jonah約拿 Lehrer萊勒 is just
a frigging該死 sociopath反社會."
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還有「喬納. 雷爾不過就是個
該死的神經病!」,
02:19
That last word is a very human人的 thing
to do, to dehumanize非人化 the people we hurt傷害.
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最後的用詞倒是非常人性,
人們往往先剝奪我們傷害對象的人性,
02:25
It's because we want to destroy破壞 people
but not feel bad about it.
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我們希望在摧毀他人的同時,
不要有什麼不好的感覺。
試想如果這是真實的法庭,
02:30
Imagine想像 if this was an actual實際 court法庭,
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02:32
and the accused被告 was in the dark黑暗,
begging乞討 for another另一個 chance機會,
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遭指控者非常惆悵、
冀求得到另一次機會,
02:35
and the jury陪審團 was yelling大呼小叫 out,
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而法官喝斥出:「煩死了!
神經病!」
02:37
"Bored無聊! Sociopath反社會!"
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(笑聲)
02:40
(Laughter笑聲)
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02:41
You know, when we watch
courtroom法庭 dramas電視劇, we tend趨向 to identify鑑定
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你們也知道當我們在觀賞法庭劇時
02:44
with the kindhearted善良 defense防禦 attorney律師,
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我們會認同好心腸的辯護律師,
02:47
but give us the power功率,
and we become成為 like hanging judges法官.
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不過給我們權力之後
我們變得喜歡奪人性命的法官。
02:51
Power功率 shifts轉變 fast快速.
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權力移轉良快,
我們逮到喬納是因為
他被察覺濫用他的權勢,
02:54
We were getting得到 Jonah約拿 because he was
perceived感知 to have misused誤用 his privilege特權,
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不過後來他被整倒在地了
我們仍然不停攻擊,
02:58
but Jonah約拿 was on the floor地板 then,
and we were still kicking,
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而且為了動手、出口而恭維自己。
03:02
and congratulating祝賀 ourselves我們自己
for punching沖孔 up.
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03:05
And it began開始 to feel weird奇怪的 and empty
when there wasn't a powerful強大 person
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當沒了我們可以逮住的
濫用權勢之有力人士,
03:09
who had misused誤用 their privilege特權
that we could get.
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我們湧起一種怪異的空虛。
一天沒有羞辱人開始覺得
03:13
A day without a shaming羞辱
began開始 to feel like a day
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03:16
picking選擇 fingernails指甲 and treading踩著 water.
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像是百般無聊的一天。
讓我來告訴你們一個故事,
03:21
Let me tell you a story故事.
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03:23
It's about a woman女人 called Justine海寧 Sacco薩科.
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是有關於一位叫做
「賈絲汀.薩科」的女人,
03:26
She was a PRPR woman女人 from New York紐約
with 170 Twitter推特 followers追隨者,
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她是位來自紐約的公關,
有 170 名推特追隨者,
03:30
and she'd Tweet鳴叫 little
acerbic尖刻 jokes笑話 to them,
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她不時撰寫一些尖酸的短文給他們。
03:33
like this one on a plane平面
from New York紐約 to London倫敦:
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像是這個在要從紐約到倫敦的
飛機上所「推」出的玩笑:
03:37
[Weird奇怪的 German德語 Dude多德: You're in first class.
It's 2014. Get some deodorant除臭劑."
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[當吸到體臭味時 內心之獨白 -
怪異的德國佬,你就在頭等艙裡,
現在是 2014 年了,用點除臭劑吧!
感謝上帝給了我們製藥廠!]
03:40
-Inner monologue獨白 as inhale吸入 BOBO.
Thank god for pharmaceuticals藥品.]
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所以賈絲汀暗自竊笑並且按下送出,
但都沒有收到回應,
03:44
So Justine海寧 chuckled to herself她自己,
and pressed壓制 send發送, and got no replies回复,
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而感受到當網路上沒有
恭維我們表現風趣時
03:47
and felt that sad傷心 feeling感覺 that we all feel
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03:49
when the Internet互聯網 doesn't
congratulate祝賀 us for being存在 funny滑稽.
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我們都會感受到的那種難過的感覺,
03:53
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
當網路上沒有人回話就是
毫無希望的靜寂。
03:54
Black黑色 silence安靜 when the Internet互聯網
doesn't talk back.
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03:58
And then she got to Heathrow希思羅機場,
and she had a little time to spare備用
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後來她到了希斯洛機場,
在她最後一段飛航行程前
04:01
before her final最後 leg, so she thought up
another另一個 funny滑稽 little acerbic尖刻 joke玩笑:
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她有些許時間可以空出來,所以她想出
另一個好笑、有點尖酸的玩笑話:
04:06
[Going to Africa非洲. Hope希望 I don't get AIDS艾滋病.
Just kidding開玩笑. I'm white白色!]
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[要去非洲了,希望我不會得愛滋病!
耍你的啦,我是白人!]。
然後她暗自竊笑、按下送出,
沒有人回覆,上了飛機,
04:10
And she chuckled to herself她自己, pressed壓制 send發送,
got on the plane平面, got no replies回复,
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04:16
turned轉身 off her phone電話, fell下跌 asleep睡著,
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關掉手機睡著了;
十一個鐘頭後醒過來了,
04:19
woke醒來 up 11 hours小時 later後來,
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04:21
turned轉身 on her phone電話 while the plane平面
was taxiing滑行 on the runway跑道,
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當飛機正要停在跑道上時打開了手機,
隨即有個來自她從高中後
04:24
and straightaway馬上 there was
a message信息 from somebody
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就沒再說過話的某人所送出的訊息,
04:27
that she hadn't有沒有 spoken
to since以來 high school學校,
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寫道:「我是如此遺憾的看到
正發生在妳身上的事情」,
04:29
that said, "I am so sorry
to see what's happening事件 to you."
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04:35
And then another另一個 message信息
from a best最好 friend朋友,
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之後另一個來自最要好的朋友的訊息:
04:37
"You need to call me right now.
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「你馬上得打個電話給我!
04:39
You are the worldwide全世界 number one
trending趨勢 topic話題 on Twitter推特."
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妳是推特上頭全世界
第一名的熱門話題」。
(笑聲)
04:43
(Laughter笑聲)
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04:46
What had happened發生 is that one
of her 170 followers追隨者 had sent發送 the Tweet鳴叫
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所發生之事就是她 170 位追隨者中的
一位送出該推文給 Gawker 的記者,
04:49
to a GawkerGawker網站 journalist記者, and he
retweeted轉推 it to his 15,000 followers追隨者:
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而他再「推」給他一萬五千名的追隨者
04:55
[And now, a funny滑稽 holiday假日 joke玩笑
from IAC'sIAC的 PRPR boss老闆]
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[一個來自 ICA 公關總監
不得體的節慶笑話],
之後就像一道閃電般迅速蔓延開了。
04:57
And then it was like a bolt螺栓 of lightning閃電.
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幾個星期之後我跟該名記者談過,
04:59
A few少數 weeks later後來, I talked
to the GawkerGawker網站 journalist記者.
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05:02
I emailed電子郵件 him and asked him how it felt,
and he said, "It felt delicious美味的."
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我寄電子郵件給他詢問他有什麼感覺,
他說:「這感覺太愉悅了!」,
接著又說:「不過我肯定她好好的」;
05:06
And then he said,
"But I'm sure she's fine."
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05:09
But she wasn't fine,
because while she slept,
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但是她並不好過,
因為在她睡著時
05:12
Twitter推特 took control控制 of her life
and dismantled拆除 it piece by piece.
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推特掌控了她的生活、
將其粉碎瓦解。
05:19
First there were the philanthropists慈善家:
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起先是善心人士 -
05:21
[If @JustineSacco'sJustineSacco的 unfortunate不幸的
words ... bother you,
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[如果賈絲汀不當的發文讓你擔心-
和我一起來援助 CARE
在非洲的工作]、
05:24
join加入 me in supporting支持
@CARE'sCARE的 work in Africa非洲.]
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[因為令人做噁、種族主義的推文,
我今天將要捐錢給CARE]。
05:26
[In light of ... disgusting討厭,
racist種族主義者 tweet鳴叫, I'm donating捐贈 to @care關心 today今天]
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接著變成感到震驚不已 -
05:30
Then came來了 the beyond horrified嚇壞了:
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[對來自賈絲汀極度令人做噁之
種族主義者的下賤推文我無言以對,
05:31
[... no words for that horribly可怕 disgusting討厭
racist種族主義者 as fuck他媽的 tweet鳴叫 from Justine海寧 Sacco薩科.
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我感到震驚不已]。
有誰那晚在推特上嗎?
只有一些人呀!
05:35
I am beyond horrified嚇壞了.]
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05:36
Was anybody任何人 on Twitter推特
that night? A few少數 of you.
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賈絲汀的玩笑話有沒有像我的
那樣淹沒掉你的推特時間軸呢?
05:39
Did Justine's賈斯汀的 joke玩笑 overwhelm壓倒
your Twitter推特 feed飼料 the way it did mine?
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05:42
It did mine, and I thought
what everybody每個人 thought that night,
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它就這樣淹沒了我的時間軸;
我想的跟那晚每個人想的一樣,
就是 -「 哇!有人完蛋了、
有人的日子不好過了」。
05:45
which哪一個 was, "Wow, somebody's某人的 screwed!
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05:48
Somebody's某人的 life is about to get terrible可怕!"
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05:50
And I satSAT up in my bed,
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我在我的床上坐了起來,
把枕頭放到腦後,
05:52
and I put the pillow枕頭 behind背後 my head,
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我接著在想 - 我不全然肯定那個
玩笑就是想表現出種族優越感,
05:55
and then I thought, I'm not entirely完全 sure
that joke玩笑 was intended to be racist種族主義者.
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也許炫燿權勢,
06:00
Maybe instead代替 of gleefully興高采烈地
flaunting炫耀 her privilege特權,
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06:03
she was mocking嘲諷 the gleeful歡樂的
flaunting炫耀 of privilege特權.
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反而是在嘲弄炫燿權勢,
這是一種喜劇傳統 -
06:05
There's a comedy喜劇 tradition傳統 of this,
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06:07
like South Park公園 or Colbert科爾伯特
or Randy蘭迪 Newman新人.
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像是「南方四賤客」、
「荷伯報告」、蘭迪.紐曼。
也許賈絲汀的罪過就是沒有表現得
像蘭迪.紐曼一樣好,
06:11
Maybe Justine海寧 Sacco's薩科的 crime犯罪 was not being存在
as good at it as Randy蘭迪 Newman新人.
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06:16
In fact事實, when I met會見 Justine海寧
a couple一對 of weeks later後來 in a bar酒吧,
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事實上當我幾個禮拜後與賈絲汀
在一間酒吧會面時她就是很受傷的,
06:19
she was just crushed,
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06:21
and I asked her to explain說明 the joke玩笑,
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我請她為那個笑話做出解釋,
她說道:「當提到正發生在
第三世界的事情時,
06:23
and she said, "Living活的 in America美國
puts看跌期權 us in a bit of a bubble泡沫
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活在美國讓我們置身於
些微榮景的泡沫之中,
06:27
when it comes to what is going on
in the Third第三 World世界.
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我只是取笑那個泡沫罷了。」
06:29
I was making製造 of fun開玩笑 of that bubble泡沫."
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06:32
You know, another另一個 woman女人 on Twitter推特 that
night, a New Statesman政治家 writer作家 Helen海倫 Lewis劉易斯,
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知道嗎?那晚另一個在推特上的女人 -
「新政治家」的撰稿人海倫.路易斯,
06:36
she reviewed回顧 my book on public上市 shaming羞辱
and wrote that she Tweeted啾啾 that night,
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她校對了我在公開羞辱議題上的書,
寫到她那晚的推文:
「我不確定她的玩笑話
是想表現出種族主義」,
06:40
"I'm not sure that her joke玩笑
was intended to be racist種族主義者,"
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06:43
and she said straightaway馬上 she got
a fury憤怒 of Tweets推文 saying,
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她說馬上她就收到盛怒的推文寫道:
06:46
"Well, you're just
a privileged特權 bitch婊子, too."
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「很好!妳也不過是個
享有權勢的賤人罷了!」,
她羞愧地回應,
06:48
And so to her shame恥辱, she wrote,
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06:51
she shut關閉 up and watched看著
as Justine's賈斯汀的 life got torn撕裂 apart距離.
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她封口了、看著賈絲汀的人生被摧毀掉。
開始變得更威脅式的 -
06:57
It started開始 to get darker:
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06:59
[Everyone大家 go report報告
this cunt @JustineSaccoJustineSacco]
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「大家來舉發賈絲汀這個討厭鬼吧!」,
07:02
Then came來了 the calls電話 for her to be fired解僱.
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後來變成訴求她被解職 -
「祝新的一年找工作順利
#被人開除吧!」
07:05
[Good luck運氣 with the job工作 hunt打獵
in the new year. #GettingFiredGettingFired]
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全世界各地好幾千人打定主意
讓她被開除是他們的職責,
07:07
Thousands成千上萬 of people around the world世界
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07:09
decided決定 it was their duty義務
to get her fired解僱.
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[賈絲汀為你的職涯最後推個文吧!
#很遺憾並不感到遺憾]
07:13
[@JustineSaccoJustineSacco last tweet鳴叫
of your career事業. #SorryNotSorrySorryNotSorry
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公司行號也來湊熱鬧了,
07:17
Corporations企業 got involved參與,
hoping希望 to sell their products製品
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希望在對賈絲汀的抹殺
背後販售她們的產品 -
07:20
on the back of Justine's賈斯汀的 annihilation殲滅:
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07:22
[Next下一個 time you plan計劃 to tweet鳴叫 something
stupid before you take off,
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[下次在你打算在起飛前推很白痴的文,
確保好你是上了 Gogo 航空!],
07:25
make sure you are getting得到
on a @Gogo勾勾 flight飛行!]
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07:28
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
07:30
A lot of companies公司 were making製造
good money that night.
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許多公司在那晚持續賺進大把鈔票,
07:33
You know, Justine's賈斯汀的 name名稱 was normally一般
Googled谷歌搜索 40 times a month.
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知道嗎?賈絲汀的名字通常
一個月被人 Google 了 40 次,
那一個月從十二月二十幾號到月底之間
07:37
That month, between之間 December十二月 the 20th
and the end結束 of December十二月,
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07:40
her name名稱 was Googled谷歌搜索 1,220,000 times.
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她的名字被 Google 搜尋了122 萬次,
07:45
And one Internet互聯網 economist經濟學家 told me
that that meant意味著 that Google谷歌 made製作
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而一位網路經濟專家告訴我
那代表了 Google
從賈絲汀的抹殺中賺進了十二萬到
四十六萬八千美元之間的某個數額,
07:49
somewhere某處 between之間 120,000 dollars美元
and 468,000 dollars美元
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07:54
from Justine's賈斯汀的 annihilation殲滅, whereas
those of us doing the actual實際 shaming羞辱 --
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在這邊那些做出實際羞辱的我們
什麼東西也沒拿到,
07:58
we got nothing.
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07:59
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
08:00
We were like unpaid未付
shaming羞辱 interns實習生 for Google谷歌.
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我們對 Google 而言就像是
免費的羞辱實習生。
08:04
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
08:07
And then came來了 the trolls巨魔:
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接著出現了惹人生氣的網路留言 -
[我確實有點希望賈絲汀得愛滋病],
08:09
[I'm actually其實 kind of hoping希望
Justine海寧 Sacco薩科 gets得到 aids艾滋病? lol大聲笑]
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另外的某人在那發言下面寫道:
08:12
Somebody else其他 on that wrote,
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「帶有 HIV 病毒的人應該強姦這個婊子,
然後我們就會知道
08:14
"Somebody HIV-positiveHIV陽性 should rape強姦
this bitch婊子 and then we'll find out
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是否她的膚色能保護她不得愛滋病」,
08:17
if her skin皮膚 color顏色 protects保護 her from AIDS艾滋病."
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而那個人取得特許通行權,
08:19
And that person got a free自由 pass通過.
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08:22
Nobody沒有人 went after that person.
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沒人去追查出那個人,
08:24
We were all so excited興奮
about destroying銷毀 Justine海寧,
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我們都是如此興高采烈的
要毀掉賈絲汀,
08:26
and our shaming羞辱 brains大腦
are so simple-minded傻呵呵,
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以及我們可笑的腦袋是如此少根筋,
08:29
that we couldn't不能 also handle處理
destroying銷毀 somebody
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我們不能一併處理來摧毀過分地
摧毀賈絲汀的某人。
08:31
who was inappropriately不適當
destroying銷毀 Justine海寧.
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08:35
Justine海寧 was really uniting團結
a lot of disparate不同 groups that night,
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賈絲汀在那晚確實團結了
許許多多全然不同的團體 -
08:39
from philanthropists慈善家 to "rape強姦 the bitch婊子."
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從慈善家到「強姦這賤人」,
08:42
[@JustineSaccoJustineSacco I hope希望 you get fired解僱!
You demented發狂 bitch婊子...
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[賈絲汀我盼望你被革職!
你這發狂的賤人,
就這麼讓世界知道你打算要去
非洲睡赤裸的黑人!]。
08:46
Just let the world世界 know you're planning規劃
to ride bare back while in Africa非洲.]
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08:50
Women婦女 always have it worse更差 than men男人.
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女人總是有比男人更不堪的批評,
當一個男人被羞辱了,
那是「我會讓你被革職!」;
08:52
When a man gets得到 shamed羞愧, it's,
"I'm going to get you fired解僱."
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08:55
When a woman女人 gets得到 shamed羞愧, it's,
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當一個女人被羞辱了,
08:57
"I'm going to get you fired解僱
and raped強姦 and cut out your uterus子宮."
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那是「我會讓你被革職、
被強姦、割掉你的子宮!」;
09:01
And then Justine's賈斯汀的 employers雇主 got involved參與:
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然後賈絲汀的雇主也淌進這渾水中了 -
09:04
[IACIAC on @JustineSaccoJustineSacco tweet鳴叫: This is an
outrageous蠻橫的, offensive進攻 comment評論.
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[ IAC 集團在賈絲汀的推特上推文:
這是個讓人火大、令人不快的言論,
有爭議的員工最近出航國外無法洽找]。
09:07
Employee僱員 in question currently目前
unreachable無法訪問 on an intl國際 flight飛行.]
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而這是當憤怒變得激憤 -
09:10
And that's when the anger憤怒
turned轉身 to excitement激動:
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[對聖誕節而言我所想要的一切 ,
就是看到當賈絲汀的飛機落地
09:12
[All I want for Christmas聖誕 is to see
@JustineSacco'sJustineSacco的 face面對 when her plane平面 lands土地
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她檢視收信匣、
語音留言時的表情#被開除了]、
[哎!老兄,當飛機落地了
賈絲汀即將要有
09:16
and she checks檢查
her inbox收件箱/voicemail語音郵件. #fired解僱]
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544572
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至今為止最痛苦的接電話時間]、
09:18
[Oh man, @justinesaccojustinesacco
is going to have the most painful痛苦
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[我們差不多要即時看到
賤人賈絲汀被開除了,
09:21
phone-turning-on電話接通 moment時刻 ever
when her plane平面 lands土地.]
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09:23
[We are about to watch this @JustineSaccoJustineSacco
bitch婊子 get fired解僱. In REAL真實 time.
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早於甚至她清楚她正要被開除]。
我們有的是讓人開心的故事轉折,
09:27
Before she even KNOWS知道
she's getting得到 fired解僱.]
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我們知道賈絲汀所不知道的一些事情,
09:29
What we had was
a delightful愉快 narrative敘述 arc.
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你能想到任何比這個還不公平的事情嗎?
09:31
We knew知道 something that Justine海寧 didn't.
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09:33
Can you think of anything
less judicial司法 than this?
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賈絲汀在飛機上睡著了而且
沒有辦法為自己解釋,
09:35
Justine海寧 was asleep睡著 on a plane平面
and unable無法 to explain說明 herself她自己,
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09:38
and her inability無力 was
a huge巨大 part部分 of the hilarity歡鬧.
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而且她的無能為力
是這場鬧劇很大的一部分,
09:42
On Twitter推特 that night, we were
like toddlers幼兒 crawling爬行 towards a gun.
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那晚在推特上我們像是走路不穩的
小孩正往著槍枝爬過去。
有人想出到底她是在哪一架飛機上頭,
09:47
Somebody worked工作 out exactly究竟
which哪一個 plane平面 she was on, so they linked關聯
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09:50
to a flight飛行 tracker跟踪器 website網站.
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所以他們連結上一個航班追蹤的網站,
[英國航空 43 航班「準點」,
1 小時 34 分鐘內抵達]
09:52
[British英國的 Airways航空公司 Flight飛行 43
On-time準時 - arrives到達 in 1 hour小時 34 minutes分鐘]
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09:56
A hashtag井號 began開始 trending趨勢 worldwide全世界:
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一個主題標籤開始橫掃全世界:
09:58
# hasJustineLandedYethasJustineLandedYet?
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#賈絲汀落地了沒呀?
[這有點瘋狂,看到某人自我毀滅,
10:01
[It is kinda有點兒 wild野生
to see someone有人 self-destruct自我毀滅
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他們卻壓根不曉得這件事
#賈絲汀落地了沒呀?]、
10:03
without them even being存在 aware知道的 of it.
#hasJustineLandedYethasJustineLandedYet]
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10:06
[Seriously認真地. I just want to go home
to go to bed, but everyone大家 at the bar酒吧
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[不騙你我只是想回家、爬上床,
但是每個在酒吧的人是如此的投入在
10:09
is SO into #HasJustineLandedYetHasJustineLandedYet.
Can't look away. Can't leave離開.]
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#賈絲汀落地了沒呀?
沒辦法視若無睹、沒辦法脫身]、
[#賈絲汀落地了沒呀?可能是我在
禮拜五晚上發生過最棒的事情吧!]、
10:12
[#HasJustineLandedYetHasJustineLandedYet may可能 be the best最好
thing to happen發生 to my Friday星期五 night.]
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[在開普敦沒人打算去機場
推文她的抵達嗎?
推特快點!我想要照片阿]。
10:16
[Is no one in Cape Town going
to the airport飛機場 to tweet鳴叫 her arrival到達?
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你猜怎麼著了,是的有人推文了!
10:19
Come on, twitter推特! I'd like pictures圖片]
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[賈絲汀事實上已經降落在
開普敦國際機場了,」
10:20
And guess猜測 what? Yes there was.
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如果你想知道那看起來怎樣 -
10:22
[@JustineSaccoJustineSacco HAS in fact事實 landed登陸
at Cape Town international國際.
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發現你正因為被誤解了沒分寸的
笑話而受到強力抨擊,
10:25
And if you want to know
what it looks容貌 like to discover發現
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10:27
that you've just been torn撕裂 to shreds碎片
because of a misconstrued誤解 liberal自由主義的 joke玩笑,
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那不是妖魔鬼怪所為,
而是像我們一樣的好人做的,
10:31
not by trolls巨魔, but by nice不錯 people like us,
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10:33
this is what it looks容貌 like:
202
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這就是看起來的樣子 -
「她決定用墨鏡來掩藏自己」
10:35
[... She's decided決定 to wear穿
sunniessunnies as a disguise偽裝.]
203
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2654
10:37
So why did we do it?
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那麼為什麼我們要這麼做呢?
10:39
I think some people were genuinely真正的 upset煩亂,
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我認為有些人真的非常生氣,
10:42
but I think for other people,
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但是我想對其他人來說,
10:44
it's because Twitter推特 is basically基本上
a mutual相互 approval贊同 machine.
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因為推特基本上是一個
共同認可的機器,
10:47
We surround環繞 ourselves我們自己 with people
who feel the same相同 way we do,
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2919
我們讓與我們感覺一致的
人圍繞著自己,
10:50
and we approve批准 each other,
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1263
而我們認可了彼此,
10:51
and that's a really good feeling感覺.
210
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1651
那確實是個很好的感覺;
10:53
And if somebody gets得到 in the way,
we screen屏幕 them out.
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而要是有人礙事我們就汰除掉他們,
10:55
And do you know what
that's the opposite對面 of?
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2087
你知道這是什麼東西的相反嗎?
10:58
It's the opposite對面 of democracy民主.
213
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1741
那是民主的相反。
11:00
We wanted to show顯示 that we cared照顧
about people dying垂死 of AIDS艾滋病 in Africa非洲.
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我們希望表達我們關心
在非洲正因愛滋病死去的眾人,
11:04
Our desire慾望 to be seen看到 to be compassionate富於同情心的
is what led us to commit承諾
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我們想讓人當成是富有愛心的欲望
就是導致我們進行
11:08
this profoundly深深 un-compassionate未體恤 act法案.
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這個極度一點愛心都沒有的行動。
11:11
As Meghan梅根 O'GieblynO'Gieblyn wrote
in the Boston波士頓 Review評論,
217
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如同梅根.歐基布林在
「波士頓評論」裡寫道:
「這並不是社會公義,
這是宣洩情感的其他方式」。
11:14
"This isn't social社會 justice正義.
It's a cathartic瀉藥 alternative替代."
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11:19
For the past過去 three years年份,
219
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過去三年來我跑遍世界與
像賈絲汀遭遇的人碰面,
11:20
I've been going around the world世界
meeting會議 people like Justine海寧 Sacco薩科 --
220
668909
3278
相信我有著極多人就像賈絲汀這樣,
11:24
and believe me, there's a lot
of people like Justine海寧 Sacco薩科.
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2784
11:27
There's more every一切 day.
222
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1706
每一天都有更多;
11:28
And we want to think they're fine,
but they're not fine.
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我們想認為他們沒事,
但是他們並非沒事,
11:32
The people I met會見 were mangled錯位.
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我遇見的人都被毀了,
11:34
They talked to me about depression蕭條,
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他們跟我談了關於抑鬱、
11:36
and anxiety焦慮 and insomnia失眠
and suicidal自殺 thoughts思念.
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焦慮、失眠以及自殺的念頭。
11:40
One woman女人 I talked to,
who also told a joke玩笑 that landed登陸 badly,
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有個和我說過話的女人
也講了個下場悽慘的笑話,
一年半的時間她走不出家門外,
11:44
she stayed home for a year and a half.
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在那之前她陪著
有學習障礙的成年人工作,
11:47
Before that, she worked工作 with adults成年人
with learning學習 difficulties困難,
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而且似乎在工作上確實表現很好。
11:51
and was apparently顯然地 really good at her job工作.
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11:55
Justine海寧 was fired解僱, of course課程,
because social社會 media媒體 demanded要求 it.
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當然賈絲汀就被開除了,
因為是社交媒體強烈要求的,
但是事情卻更糟了,
11:59
But it was worse更差 than that.
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12:01
She was losing失去 herself她自己.
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賈絲汀迷失了自己,
12:03
She was waking醒來 up in the middle中間
of the night, forgetting遺忘 who she was.
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她不斷在半夜醒過來還忘了自己是誰。
12:08
She was got because she was perceived感知
to have misused誤用 her privilege特權.
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她被逮到是因為她被當成濫用權勢,
12:12
And of course課程, that's a much better thing
to get people for than the things
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而且當然了比起我們以前
用來逮人的事由,
12:15
we used to get people for,
like having children孩子 out of wedlock交杯酒.
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像是使小孩子遠離婚姻枷鎖,
這是用來逮人強上許多的事由;
12:18
But the phrase短語 "misuse濫用 of privilege特權"
is becoming變得 a free自由 pass通過
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不過濫用權勢這個詞
正要變成一張特許通行證,
12:21
to tear眼淚 apart距離 pretty漂亮 much
anybody任何人 we choose選擇 to.
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來摧毀極多我們挑出的任何人,
12:25
It's becoming變得 a devalued貶值 term術語,
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它正變成了一個貶低的措辭,
12:27
and it's making製造 us lose失去
our capacity容量 for empathy同情
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它正使得我們失去同情心的本能,
12:30
and for distinguishing區別 between之間 serious嚴重
and unserious不嚴肅 transgressions越軌.
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以及分辨出界於嚴重
與不嚴重之間的踰矩。
12:36
Justine海寧 had 170 Twitter推特 followers追隨者,
and so to make it work,
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賈絲汀有 170 名推特追隨者,
12:39
she had to be fictionalized虛構的.
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所以要讓行動成功的話
她得被虛構出故事,
12:41
Word got around that she was the daughter女兒
the mining礦業 billionaire億萬富翁 Desmond德斯蒙德 Sacco薩科.
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外傳她是礦業億萬富豪
德斯蒙.薩科的女兒 -
12:46
[Let us not be fooled上當 by #JustineSaccoJustineSacco
her father父親 is a SASA mining礦業 billionaire億萬富翁.
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[我們不要被賈絲汀耍了,
她父親是南非礦業的億萬富豪,
她並不遺憾,她老爸也一樣]。
我以為關於賈絲汀那是真的,
12:50
She's not sorry.
And neither也不 is her father父親.]
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等到我在一間酒吧跟她碰面了,
我問了她有關她億萬富豪的父親,
12:52
I thought that was true真正 about Justine海寧,
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12:54
until直到 I met會見 her at a bar酒吧, and I asked her
about her billionaire億萬富翁 father父親,
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而她說:「我父親是賣地毯的!」。
12:57
and she said, "My father父親 sells塞爾斯 carpets地毯."
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12:59
And I think back on
the early days of Twitter推特,
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而我回想起在推特早期的日子裡,
13:01
when people would admit承認
shameful可恥 secrets秘密 about themselves他們自己,
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當有人承認關於自己丟臉的秘事時,
13:04
and other people would say,
"Oh my God, I'm exactly究竟 the same相同."
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其他人會說:「我的天呀!
我完全一模一樣耶!」;
13:07
These days, the hunt打獵 is on
for people's人們 shameful可恥 secrets秘密.
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這些日子以來搜尋眾人
丟臉的秘事是不停歇的,
13:11
You can lead a good, ethical合乎道德的 life,
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你可以過著良好、有道德的生活,
13:13
but some bad phraseology用語 in a Tweet鳴叫
can overwhelm壓倒 it all,
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但是一些推特裡的惡劣措辭
可以把它給全部淹蓋掉,
13:18
become成為 a clue線索 to your secret秘密 inner evil邪惡.
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變成一個你暗藏邪惡秘事的線索。
13:21
Maybe there's two types類型
of people in the world世界:
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也許世界上有著兩種類型的人 -
13:24
those people who favor偏愛
humans人類 over ideology思想,
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喜愛人遠過於意識形態的那些人
13:27
and those people who favor偏愛
ideology思想 over humans人類.
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和喜愛意識形態遠過於人的那些人,
13:31
I favor偏愛 humans人類 over ideology思想,
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我喜愛人多過於意識形態;
13:33
but right now, the ideologues空想家 are winning勝利,
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不過現在意識形態奉行者是贏家,
13:36
and they're creating創建 a stage階段
for constant不變 artificial人造 high dramas電視劇
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而且他們正在創造一個舞台
給一成不變的虛假大戲,
13:41
where everybody's每個人的 either
a magnificent華麗的 hero英雄
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在那裡每個人可能是令人景仰的英雄,
13:43
or a sickening令人作嘔 villain惡棍,
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或是讓人厭惡的惡棍,
13:45
even though雖然 we know that's not true真正
about our fellow同伴 humans人類.
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即便如此我們知道有關於我們的
人類同伴那不是真實的。
13:48
What's true真正 is that
we are clever聰明 and stupid;
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事實是我們是聰明又愚笨的,
13:52
what's true真正 is that we're grey灰色 areas.
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事實是我們在灰色地帶。
13:55
The great thing about social社會 media媒體
was how it gave a voice語音
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有關社交媒體最棒的事情
13:58
to voiceless無聲 people,
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是它如何給了說話沒人在意者
能被聽見的聲音,
13:59
but we're now creating創建
a surveillance監控 society社會,
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但是我們現在正在
創造一個監控式社會,
14:02
where the smartest最聰明的 way to survive生存
is to go back to being存在 voiceless無聲.
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在那裡要活下去最聰明的辦法就是
回去做沒有聲音的人。
14:07
Let's not do that.
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我們千萬不要那樣做!
14:08
Thank you.
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謝謝大家!
14:10
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
14:21
Bruno布魯諾 Giussani吉薩尼: Thank you, Jon喬恩.
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布魯諾.裘薩尼:辛苦你了!
14:22
Jon喬恩 Ronson龍森: Thanks謝謝, Bruno布魯諾.
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強.朗森:謝謝!
14:24
BGBG: Don't go away.
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裘薩尼:別走開喔,
14:26
What strikes罷工 me about Justine's賈斯汀的 story故事
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854939
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關於賈絲汀的故事震撼到我的是
假如你今天去谷歌搜尋她的名字,
14:28
is also the fact事實 that if you
Google谷歌 her name名稱 today今天,
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14:31
this story故事 covers蓋子 the first
100 pages網頁 of Google谷歌 results結果 --
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也是這個故事佔滿了前 100 頁的
搜尋成果清單的事實,
14:33
there is nothing else其他 about her.
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再沒有其他任何事情是和她相關的。
14:36
In your book, you mention提到 another另一個 story故事
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在你的書裡面你提到
另一個受害人的故事,
14:38
of another另一個 victim受害者 who actually其實 got
taken採取 on by a reputation聲譽 management管理 firm公司,
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此人實際上是被一間
聲譽管理顧問公司所雇用,
14:43
and by creating創建 blogs博客 and posting發帖 nice不錯,
innocuous無害的 stories故事 about her love for cats
285
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透過開創部落格和張貼
有關她對貓咪的愛、 節慶以及餡料
14:48
and holidays假期 and stuff東東,
managed管理 to get the story故事
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良好、無敗害的文章,
14:51
off the first couple一對 pages網頁 of Google谷歌
results結果, but it didn't last long.
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企圖讓該故事消失在前幾頁的谷歌搜尋
成果清單上,不過並沒維持多久,
14:55
A couple一對 of weeks later後來, they started開始
creeping爬行 back up to the top最佳 result結果.
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幾個禮拜後它們又上升竄回
最上方的搜尋結果,
15:00
Is this a totally完全 lost丟失 battle戰鬥?
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這是一場徹底輸了的戰爭嗎?
朗森:要是你看見了一種不公平
或是不甚明確的霸凌,
15:02
Jon喬恩 Ronson龍森: You know, I think
the very best最好 thing we can do,
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15:05
if you see a kind of unfair不公平
or an ambiguous曖昧 shaming羞辱,
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我認為我們最好就是把話說出來。
15:09
is to speak說話 up, because I think
the worst最差 thing that happened發生 to Justine海寧
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因為我認為發生在賈絲汀身上
最慘的事情就是沒有人支持她,
15:13
was that nobody沒有人 supported支持的 her --
like, everyone大家 was against反對 her,
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就像是每一個人都在抵制她,
15:16
and that is profoundly深深 traumatizing創傷,
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那是深深地精神上令人受傷的,
15:18
to be told by tens of thousands數千 of people
that you need to get out.
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被成千上萬的人要求辭職。
15:21
But if a shaming羞辱 happens發生 and there's
a babble潺潺 of voices聲音, like in a democracy民主,
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不過要是一件羞辱人的事發生
而有著像在民主國家亂烘烘的聲音,
15:26
where people are discussing討論 it,
I think that's much less damaging有害.
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大家都在討論這件事,
我想那會不傷人得多。
15:29
So I think that's the way forward前鋒,
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所以我認為是有再進步的地方,
15:30
but it's hard, because if you do
stand up for somebody,
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但是不容易做到,
因為要是你支持某人,
15:33
it's incredibly令人難以置信 unpleasant不愉快.
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這會是極度令人不開心的事。
15:35
BGBG: So let's talk about your experience經驗,
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裘薩尼:那麼讓我們來談你的經驗吧,
15:37
because you stood站在 up by writing寫作 this book.
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因為你透過寫這本書挺身而出,
15:39
By the way, it's mandatory強制性
reading for everybody每個人, okay?
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順帶一提這對每個人來說
都是指定讀物對吧,
15:41
You stood站在 up because the book
actually其實 puts看跌期權 the spotlight聚光燈 on shamersshamers.
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你挺身而出因為本書的確把焦點
放在霸凌者的身上,
15:46
And I assume承擔 you didn't only
have friendly友善 reactions反應 on Twitter推特.
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而我猜想在推特上你不是
只有友善的回應而已。
15:49
JRJR: It didn't go down that well
with some people.
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朗森:我和有些人之間
不是很好誘發反應的,
15:51
(Laughter笑聲)
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1001
(笑聲)
15:52
I mean, you don't want
to just concentrate集中 --
308
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我是指你不想要只專注在
15:55
because lots of people understood了解,
and were really nice不錯 about the book.
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943059
3397
因為很多人都知道了、
而且對本書很滿意。
15:58
But yeah, for 30 years年份 I've been writing寫作
stories故事 about abuses濫用 of power功率,
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不過三十年來我已經不斷寫出
有關濫用權力的故事,
16:01
and when I say the powerful強大 people
over there in the military軍事,
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而當我說有力人士就就在軍隊裡面、
16:05
or in the pharmaceutical製藥 industry行業,
everybody每個人 applauds叫好 me.
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或是在藥廠行業裡,
每一個人都在讚揚我;
16:07
As soon不久 as I say, "We are the powerful強大
people abusing濫用 our power功率 now,"
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當我一說了:「我們就是有力人士,
現在正在濫用權力!」,
16:12
I get people saying,
"Well you must必須 be a racist種族主義者 too."
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就有人對我說著:「很好!你必定
是一個種族主義者吧!」
16:15
BGBG: So the other night --
yesterday昨天 -- we were at dinner晚餐,
315
963100
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裘薩尼:另一晚上我們在用
晚餐 - 就是昨天啦,
16:17
and there were two discussions討論 going on.
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965799
1915
有兩個持續進行的討論,
16:19
On one side you were talking
with people around the table --
317
967738
3048
這一邊你和同桌的人在聊天
16:22
and that was a nice不錯,
constructive建設性 discussion討論.
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而且是個愉快、有建設性的討論;
16:24
On the other, every一切 time
you turned轉身 to your phone電話,
319
972997
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在另一邊每次你回看手機
都有著大量的謾罵發言。
16:27
there is this deluge洪水 of insults侮辱.
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1561
16:28
JRJR: Yeah. This happened發生 last night.
We had like a TEDTED dinner晚餐 last night.
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朗森:是啊就發生在昨晚,
我們有個像 TED 大會的晚宴,
16:32
We were chatting聊天的 and it was lovely可愛
and nice不錯, and I decided決定 to check Twitter推特.
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我們一直在聊天而且友善又愉快的,
而我決定去查看一下我的推特,
16:36
Somebody said, "You are
a white白色 supremacist至上主義."
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某人說:「你是個白人至上主義者!」。
16:38
And then I went back and had
a nice不錯 conversation會話 with somebody,
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2974
接著我回到聊天裡而且和某人
有著很愉快的對話,
接著我回到推特上,
16:41
and then I went back to Twitter推特,
325
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1541
有人說我的存在把世界弄成了
一個更糟糕的地方。
16:42
somebody said my very existence存在
made製作 the world世界 a worse更差 place地點.
326
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3088
16:46
My friend朋友 Adam亞當 Curtis柯蒂斯 says
327
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我的朋友亞當.科提斯說了
16:48
that maybe the Internet互聯網 is like
a John約翰 Carpenter木匠 movie電影 from the 1980s,
328
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也許網路就像約翰.卡本特
來自八零年代的一部電影,
16:52
when eventually終於 everyone大家
will start開始 screaming尖叫 at each other
329
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當最終每個人將會開始
監視彼此、射殺彼此,
16:55
and shooting射擊 each other,
and then eventually終於 everybody每個人
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之後最終每個人會逃離到
比較安全的某個地方。
16:58
would flee逃跑 to somewhere某處 safer更安全,
331
1006233
1996
我開始在想那確實是個美好的選項!
17:00
and I'm starting開始 to think of that
as a really nice不錯 option選項.
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17:04
BGBG: Jon喬恩, thank you.
JRJR: Thank you, Bruno布魯諾.
333
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1953
布魯諾:謝謝你!
強:謝謝你布魯諾!
17:06
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
Translated by Yuanqing Edberg
Reviewed by Scarlett Huang

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jon Ronson - Writer, filmmaker
Jon Ronson is a writer and documentary filmmaker who dips into every flavor of madness, extremism and obsession.

Why you should listen

For his latest book, So You've Been Publicly Shamed, Jon Ronson spent three years traveling the world and talking to people who'd been subjected to high-profile public shamings. Whatever their transgression, the response was to be faced by an angry mob, as Ronson calls them "collective outrage circles" devoted to tearing down said person from any position of power. It does not, Ronson suggests gently, reflect so well on society as a whole.

In a previous book, The Psychopath Test, Ronson explored the unnerving world of psychopaths -- a group that includes both incarcerated killers and, one of his subjects insists, plenty of CEOs. In his books, films and articles, Ronson explores madness and obsession of all kinds, from the US military's experiments in psychic warfare to the obscene and hate-filled yet Christian rap of the Insane Clown Posse. He wrote a column for the Guardian, hosted an essay program on Radio 4 in the United Kingdom, and contributes to This American Life.

More profile about the speaker
Jon Ronson | Speaker | TED.com