ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Daniel Kahneman - Behavioral economics founder
Widely regarded as the world's most influential living psychologist, Daniel Kahneman won the Nobel in Economics for his pioneering work in behavioral economics -- exploring the irrational ways we make decisions about risk.

Why you should listen

Daniel Kahneman is an eminence grise for the Freakonomics crowd. In the mid-1970s, with his collaborator Amos Tversky, he was among the first academics to pick apart exactly why we make "wrong" decisions. In their 1979 paper on prospect theory, Kahneman and Tversky examined a simple problem of economic risk. And rather than stating the optimal, rational answer, as an economist of the time might have, they quantified how most real people, consistently, make a less-rational choice. Their work treated economics not as a perfect or self-correcting machine, but as a system prey to quirks of human perception. The field of behavioral economics was born.

Kahneman was awarded the Nobel Memorial prize in 2002 for his work with Tversky, who died before the award was bestowed. In a lovely passage in his Nobel biography, Kahneman looks back on his deep collaboration with Tversky and calls for a new form of academic cooperation, marked not by turf battles but by "adversarial collaboration," a good-faith effort by unlike minds to conduct joint research, critiquing each other in the service of an ideal of truth to which both can contribute.

More profile about the speaker
Daniel Kahneman | Speaker | TED.com
TED2010

Daniel Kahneman: The riddle of experience vs. memory

丹尼爾‧卡內曼(Daniel Kahneman):經驗與記憶之謎

Filmed:
6,094,013 views

身為諾貝爾獎得主及行為金融學創始者丹尼爾‧卡內曼用放假和結腸鏡檢查的例子向我們展示「經驗的我」和「記憶的我」是以不同的方式感受快樂。這項新創見涵括了經濟、政治和我們的對自己的自我意識,意義深遠。
- Behavioral economics founder
Widely regarded as the world's most influential living psychologist, Daniel Kahneman won the Nobel in Economics for his pioneering work in behavioral economics -- exploring the irrational ways we make decisions about risk. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:15
Everybody每個人 talks會談 about happiness幸福 these days.
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最近大家都在談論快樂
00:18
I had somebody count計數 the number of books圖書
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我請人數了有多少本書
00:21
with "happiness幸福" in the title標題 published發表 in the last five years年份
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在近五年來出版書名有提到"快樂"
00:24
and they gave up after about 40, and there were many許多 more.
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他們數到大約超過40本,並且還有更多
00:29
There is a huge巨大 wave of interest利益 in happiness幸福,
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越來越多人對快樂的議題感到有興趣
00:32
among其中 researchers研究人員.
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展開研究
00:34
There is a lot of happiness幸福 coaching教練.
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其中更多訓練教導人如何變快樂
00:36
Everybody每個人 would like to make people happier幸福.
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人人都想讓人更快樂
00:38
But in spite儘管 of all this flood洪水 of work,
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雖這類書籍多如牛毛
00:42
there are several一些 cognitive認知 traps陷阱
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仍有些認知上的陷阱
00:44
that sort分類 of make it almost幾乎 impossible不可能 to think straight直行
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讓人幾乎難以直接領會
00:47
about happiness幸福.
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快樂的本質
00:49
And my talk today今天 will be mostly大多 about these cognitive認知 traps陷阱.
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我今天主要談論的就是這些認知陷阱
00:52
This applies適用 to laypeople外行人 thinking思維 about their own擁有 happiness幸福,
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它們既會影響一般人對自身快樂的觀感
00:55
and it applies適用 to scholars學者 thinking思維 about happiness幸福,
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也會影響學者對快樂的判斷
00:58
because it turns out we're just as messed搞砸 up as anybody任何人 else其他 is.
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因為我們和任何人一樣都會出錯
01:02
The first of these traps陷阱
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第一個陷阱
01:04
is a reluctance不情願 to admit承認 complexity複雜.
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是不願去承認快樂並不簡單
01:07
It turns out that the word "happiness幸福"
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事實證明快樂這個詞
01:10
is just not a useful有用 word anymore,
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已經再也不實用了
01:13
because we apply應用 it to too many許多 different不同 things.
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因為我們拿它來詮釋太多事情
01:16
I think there is one particular特定 meaning含義 to which哪一個 we might威力 restrict限制 it,
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我想我們應該限定它的意思
01:19
but by and large,
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不過,一般而言
01:21
this is something that we'll have to give up
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我們得放棄這個想法
01:23
and we'll have to adopt採用 the more complicated複雜 view視圖
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並用更複雜的觀點來看
01:27
of what well-being福利 is.
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何謂快樂生活
01:29
The second第二 trap陷阱 is a confusion混亂 between之間 experience經驗 and memory記憶;
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第二個陷阱是經驗和記憶間的混淆
01:33
basically基本上, it's between之間 being存在 happy快樂 in your life,
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基本上這是在生活中體會快樂
01:36
and being存在 happy快樂 about your life
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和覺得生活很快樂
01:38
or happy快樂 with your life.
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樂觀生活之間的差別
01:40
And those are two very different不同 concepts概念,
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這兩者意義相差甚遠
01:42
and they're both lumped集總 in the notion概念 of happiness幸福.
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論及快樂常混為一談
01:45
And the third第三 is the focusing調焦 illusion錯覺,
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第三點是大事幻覺論
01:48
and it's the unfortunate不幸的 fact事實 that we can't think about any circumstance環境
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不幸,當我們想到一些
01:51
that affects影響 well-being福利
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關於快樂生活的情境
01:53
without distorting扭曲 its importance重要性.
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勢必會覺得它特別重要
01:55
I mean, this is a real真實 cognitive認知 trap陷阱.
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這是真正的認知陷阱
01:58
There's just no way of getting得到 it right.
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避無可避
02:01
Now, I'd like to start開始 with an example
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現在,我想以一個例子開頭
02:03
of somebody who had a question-and-answer問題和答案 session會議
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有個人上過我的課後
02:08
after one of my lectures講座 reported報導 a story故事,
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在Q&A回應了一則故事
02:12
and that was a story故事 --
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這個故事是這樣的
02:13
He said he'd他會 been listening to a symphony交響樂,
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他說他有次在聽交響樂時
02:16
and it was absolutely絕對 glorious輝煌 music音樂
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覺得音樂真是動聽極了
02:19
and at the very end結束 of the recording記錄,
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但在演奏快結束時
02:22
there was a dreadful可怕 screeching尖叫 sound聲音.
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卻冒出了可怕刺耳的聲音
02:24
And then he added添加, really quite相當 emotionally感情上,
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接著他生氣地表示
02:26
it ruined毀了 the whole整個 experience經驗.
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這毀了整個愉快的經驗
02:30
But it hadn't有沒有.
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事實並非如此
02:32
What it had ruined毀了 were the memories回憶 of the experience經驗.
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毀了的是對於這段經驗的記憶
02:35
He had had the experience經驗.
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他經歷了這段經驗
02:37
He had had 20 minutes分鐘 of glorious輝煌 music音樂.
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經歷了20分鐘的聽覺饗宴
02:39
They counted for nothing
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現在都不算數了
02:41
because he was left with a memory記憶;
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因為他只剩下記憶
02:44
the memory記憶 was ruined毀了,
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有污點的記憶
02:46
and the memory記憶 was all that he had gotten得到 to keep.
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他就只剩下這段記憶
02:49
What this is telling告訴 us, really,
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這告訴我們
02:52
is that we might威力 be thinking思維 of ourselves我們自己 and of other people
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我們在思考自己和別人時
02:54
in terms條款 of two selves自我.
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用了兩種我
02:56
There is an experiencing經歷 self,
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經驗的我
02:59
who lives生活 in the present當下
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活在當下
03:01
and knows知道 the present當下,
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感受當下
03:03
is capable of re-living重新生活 the past過去,
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也能感受過去的經驗
03:05
but basically基本上 it has only the present當下.
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但基本上他只屬於當下
03:08
It's the experiencing經歷 self that the doctor醫生 approaches方法 --
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當醫生要接觸的是經驗的我
03:11
you know, when the doctor醫生 asks,
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他會問
03:12
"Does it hurt傷害 now when I touch觸摸 you here?"
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"我碰你這裡會痛嗎?"
03:16
And then there is a remembering記憶 self,
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另一個是記憶的我
03:19
and the remembering記憶 self is the one that keeps保持 score得分了,
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負責記錄生活
03:23
and maintains維持 the story故事 of our life,
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抒寫生活故事
03:25
and it's the one that the doctor醫生 approaches方法
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醫生要找他時
03:28
in asking the question,
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會這麼問
03:30
"How have you been feeling感覺 lately最近?"
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"最近感覺如何?"
03:33
or "How was your trip to Albania阿爾巴尼亞?" or something like that.
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或"去阿爾巴尼亞好玩嗎",類似的問題
03:36
Those are two very different不同 entities實體,
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經驗的我和記憶的我
03:39
the experiencing經歷 self and the remembering記憶 self,
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兩者十分不同
03:42
and getting得到 confused困惑 between之間 them is part部分 of the mess食堂
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我們之所以不懂快樂
03:46
about the notion概念 of happiness幸福.
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兩者的混淆是部分原因
03:49
Now, the remembering記憶 self
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記憶的我
03:52
is a storyteller說故事的人.
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負責說故事
03:55
And that really starts啟動 with a basic基本 response響應 of our memories回憶 --
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故事從記憶中直接擷取
03:59
it starts啟動 immediately立即.
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即時上傳
04:01
We don't only tell stories故事 when we set out to tell stories故事.
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我們講故事的時候並不是我們在講
04:04
Our memory記憶 tells告訴 us stories故事,
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是我們的記憶在說故事
04:07
that is, what we get to keep from our experiences經驗
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我們從經驗中儲存下來的
04:09
is a story故事.
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是故事
04:11
And let me begin開始 with one example.
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讓我用一個例子開頭
04:16
This is an old study研究.
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以前有個研究
04:18
Those are actual實際 patients耐心 undergoing經歷 a painful痛苦 procedure程序.
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由真正的病人接受痛苦的治療
04:21
I won't慣於 go into detail詳情. It's no longer painful痛苦 these days,
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細節不多說,現今的療法已不再難受
04:24
but it was painful痛苦 when this study研究 was run in the 1990s.
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但在實驗進行的90年代,治療令人痛不欲生
04:28
They were asked to report報告 on their pain疼痛 every一切 60 seconds.
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病人必須每分鐘報告痛苦指數
04:31
Here are two patients耐心,
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這邊有兩個病患
04:34
those are their recordings錄音.
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還有他們的紀錄
04:36
And you are asked, "Who of them suffered遭遇 more?"
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我問你,"誰受苦多一點?"
04:39
And it's a very easy簡單 question.
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這問題很簡單
04:41
Clearly明確地, Patient患者 B suffered遭遇 more --
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顯然,是病人B
04:43
his colonoscopy結腸鏡檢查 was longer,
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他的結腸鏡檢查時間較長
04:45
and every一切 minute分鐘 of pain疼痛 that Patient患者 A had,
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病人A每分鐘感覺的疼痛
04:48
Patient患者 B had, and more.
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病人B也感覺到了,而且更久
04:51
But now there is another另一個 question:
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但現在有另一個問題
04:54
"How much did these patients耐心 think they suffered遭遇?"
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"誰感覺比較痛?"
04:57
And here is a surprise.
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這裡有個小意外
04:59
The surprise is that Patient患者 A
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意外的是病人A
05:01
had a much worse更差 memory記憶 of the colonoscopy結腸鏡檢查
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對於結腸鏡檢查的記憶比病人B
05:04
than Patient患者 B.
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還糟糕
05:06
The stories故事 of the colonoscopies結腸鏡檢查 were different不同,
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兩段結腸鏡檢查的故事不同
05:09
and because a very critical危急 part部分 of the story故事 is how it ends結束.
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重點在於故事的結尾
05:15
And neither也不 of these stories故事 is very inspiring鼓舞人心 or great --
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兩個故事都不怎麼啟發人心
05:18
but one of them is this distinct不同 ... (Laughter笑聲)
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不過其中之一
05:22
but one of them is distinctly歷歷 worse更差 than the other.
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顯然感受比另一個還差
05:25
And the one that is worse更差
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感覺較糟的這一個
05:27
is the one where pain疼痛 was at its peak at the very end結束;
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結尾時處於疼痛高峰
05:30
it's a bad story故事.
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這不是個好故事
05:32
How do we know that?
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我們怎知道的?
05:34
Because we asked these people after their colonoscopy結腸鏡檢查,
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因為我們在檢查結束後問他們
05:37
and much later後來, too,
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稍晚之後問說
05:38
"How bad was the whole整個 thing, in total?"
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"整體而言,感覺多糟?"
05:40
And it was much worse更差 for A than for B, in memory記憶.
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而A的記憶感覺比B糟糕許多
05:44
Now this is a direct直接 conflict衝突
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顯然經驗的我和記憶的我之間
05:46
between之間 the experiencing經歷 self and the remembering記憶 self.
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有了直接衝突
05:49
From the point of view視圖 of the experiencing經歷 self,
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就經驗的我來看
05:52
clearly明確地, B had a worse更差 time.
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顯然B比較難受
05:54
Now, what you could do with Patient患者 A,
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那病人A的情況該怎麼解釋
05:57
and we actually其實 ran clinical臨床 experiments實驗,
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我們實際做了臨床實驗
06:00
and it has been doneDONE, and it does work --
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實驗完成了,確實有用
06:02
you could actually其實 extend延伸 the colonoscopy結腸鏡檢查 of Patient患者 A
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病人A的檢查結果能得到解釋
06:07
by just keeping保持 the tube in without jiggling輕搖 it too much.
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在於持續插入導管時不晃動得太厲害
06:10
That will cause原因 the patient患者
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雖然病人還是會痛
06:13
to suffer遭受, but just a little
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但只有一點點
06:16
and much less than before.
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比先前好受許多
06:18
And if you do that for a couple一對 of minutes分鐘,
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繼續這樣做,幾分鐘下來
06:20
you have made製作 the experiencing經歷 self
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病人A的經驗的我
06:22
of Patient患者 A worse更差 off,
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感覺每況愈下
06:24
and you have the remembering記憶 self of Patient患者 A
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而病人A記憶的我
06:27
a lot better off,
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感覺好多了
06:29
because now you have endowed天賦 Patient患者 A
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因為你給了病人A
06:31
with a better story故事
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一個好一點的故事
06:33
about his experience經驗.
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記憶他的經驗
06:36
What defines定義 a story故事?
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故事好壞由什麼決定?
06:39
And that is true真正 of the stories故事
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記憶告訴我們的故事
06:41
that memory記憶 delivers提供 for us,
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是真實的
06:43
and it's also true真正 of the stories故事 that we make up.
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我們講的故事也是真的
06:46
What defines定義 a story故事 are changes變化,
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故事好壞取決於變化
06:50
significant重大 moments瞬間 and endings結局.
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重要時刻和結尾的變化
06:53
Endings結局 are very, very important重要
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結尾非常重要
06:55
and, in this case案件, the ending結尾 dominated佔主導地位.
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上面的例子是結尾由主導
06:59
Now, the experiencing經歷 self
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經驗的我
07:01
lives生活 its life continuously一直.
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延續這個生活經驗
07:04
It has moments瞬間 of experience經驗, one after the other.
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擁有各種時刻的經驗,一個接一個
07:07
And you can ask: What happens發生 to these moments瞬間?
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你會問"這些時刻怎麼了?"
07:10
And the answer回答 is really straightforward直截了當:
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答案很簡單
07:12
They are lost丟失 forever永遠.
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他們永遠消失了
07:14
I mean, most of the moments瞬間 of our life --
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我們生活中大多數時刻
07:16
and I calculated計算, you know, the psychological心理 present當下
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我算了算,以心理學上的現在而言
07:19
is said to be about three seconds long;
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據說長達三秒
07:21
that means手段 that, you know,
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這表示
07:23
in a life there are about 600 million百萬 of them;
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一個人一生中有大約6億個時刻
07:25
in a month, there are about 600,000 --
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一個月有60萬個時刻
07:28
most of them don't leave離開 a trace跟踪.
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它們大多數不留痕跡
07:32
Most of them are completely全然 ignored忽視
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大多數被全然忽視了
07:34
by the remembering記憶 self.
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被記憶的我忽視
07:36
And yet然而, somehow不知何故 you get the sense
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但是現在你發現
07:38
that they should count計數,
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他們應該也算數
07:40
that what happens發生 during these moments瞬間 of experience經驗
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因為我們經驗的每分每秒發生的一切
07:43
is our life.
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組成了我們的人生
07:45
It's the finite有限 resource資源 that we're spending開支
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他們是我們活在地球上
07:47
while we're on this earth地球.
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就會消耗的有限資源
07:49
And how to spend it
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該如何使用
07:51
would seem似乎 to be relevant相應,
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似乎很重要
07:53
but that is not the story故事
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但這不是故事
07:55
that the remembering記憶 self keeps保持 for us.
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也不是記憶的我會留給我們的
07:57
So we have the remembering記憶 self
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我們有記憶的我
07:59
and the experiencing經歷 self,
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和經驗的我
08:01
and they're really quite相當 distinct不同.
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兩者很好區別
08:03
The biggest最大 difference區別 between之間 them
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其中最大的不同
08:05
is in the handling處理 of time.
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在於處理時間的方式
08:08
From the point of view視圖 of the experiencing經歷 self,
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就經驗的我而言
08:11
if you have a vacation假期,
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如果你有一個假期
08:13
and the second第二 week is just as good as the first,
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第二週和第一週同等快樂
08:16
then the two-week2週 vacation假期
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那麼兩週下來
08:19
is twice兩次 as good as the one-week一周 vacation假期.
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快樂的份量是一週假期的兩倍
08:22
That's not the way it works作品 at all for the remembering記憶 self.
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記憶的我不是這樣算
08:25
For the remembering記憶 self, a two-week2週 vacation假期
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對記憶的我來說,兩週假期
08:27
is barely僅僅 better than the one-week一周 vacation假期
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沒有比一週假期好多少
08:30
because there are no new memories回憶 added添加.
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因為沒有新的記憶加入
08:32
You have not changed the story故事.
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你沒有改變故事的劇情
08:35
And in this way,
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因此
08:37
time is actually其實 the critical危急 variable變量
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以時間長短
08:40
that distinguishes區分 a remembering記憶 self
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區分記憶的我和經驗的我
08:43
from an experiencing經歷 self;
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是不可靠的
08:45
time has very little impact碰撞 on the story故事.
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時間對故事影響不大
08:49
Now, the remembering記憶 self does more
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記憶的我所做的
08:52
than remember記得 and tell stories故事.
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不只記憶和說故事
08:54
It is actually其實 the one that makes品牌 decisions決定
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他也是真正做決定的人
08:58
because, if you have a patient患者 who has had, say,
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因為,假如你的病人有選擇權
09:00
two colonoscopies結腸鏡檢查 with two different不同 surgeons外科醫生
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先由兩個醫生分別檢查一次
09:03
and is deciding決定 which哪一個 of them to choose選擇,
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然後選擇醫生
09:06
then the one that chooses
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負責選擇的
09:09
is the one that has the memory記憶 that is less bad,
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會選擇感覺較好的記憶中
09:13
and that's the surgeon外科醫生 that will be chosen選擇.
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執行檢查的醫生
09:15
The experiencing經歷 self
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經驗的我
09:17
has no voice語音 in this choice選擇.
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做選擇時無從置喙
09:20
We actually其實 don't choose選擇 between之間 experiences經驗,
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我們事實上不是在兩段經驗中做選擇
09:23
we choose選擇 between之間 memories回憶 of experiences經驗.
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而是在兩段經驗的記憶中選擇
09:26
And even when we think about the future未來,
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而且,當我們在想未來的時候
09:29
we don't think of our future未來 normally一般 as experiences經驗.
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一般我們不會以經驗的形式去思考
09:32
We think of our future未來
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我們把未來
09:34
as anticipated預期 memories回憶.
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以預想的記憶形式呈現
09:37
And basically基本上 you can look at this,
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基本上你可以看這個
09:39
you know, as a tyranny暴政 of the remembering記憶 self,
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記憶的我是個暴君
09:42
and you can think of the remembering記憶 self
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你可以把記憶的我想成
09:44
sort分類 of dragging拖延 the experiencing經歷 self
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有點像是在跩著經驗的我
09:46
through通過 experiences經驗 that
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透過經驗的我用不著的經驗
09:48
the experiencing經歷 self doesn't need.
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主宰個人的思考
09:50
I have that sense that
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我有個想法
09:52
when we go on vacations休假
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當我們放假時
09:54
this is very frequently經常 the case案件;
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往往
09:56
that is, we go on vacations休假,
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之所以放假
09:58
to a very large extent程度,
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有很大一部分
10:00
in the service服務 of our remembering記憶 self.
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是為了記憶的我
10:03
And this is a bit hard to justify辯解 I think.
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我想這有點難辯證
10:06
I mean, how much do we consume消耗 our memories回憶?
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我們使用了多少記憶
10:09
That is one of the explanations說明
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可以解釋
10:11
that is given特定 for the dominance霸主地位
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記憶的我
10:13
of the remembering記憶 self.
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為何能主導
10:15
And when I think about that, I think about a vacation假期
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這讓我想起一次假期
10:17
we had in Antarctica南極洲 a few少數 years年份 ago,
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幾年前在南極度過的假期
10:20
which哪一個 was clearly明確地 the best最好 vacation假期 I've ever had,
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可說是我最棒的一個假期
10:23
and I think of it relatively相對 often經常,
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和其他假期相比
10:25
relative相對的 to how much I think of other vacations休假.
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我比較常想起他
10:27
And I probably大概 have consumed消費
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這趟三周的旅程
10:31
my memories回憶 of that three-week三個星期 trip, I would say,
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我大概用掉了
10:33
for about 25 minutes分鐘 in the last four years年份.
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過去四年來大約25分鐘的記憶量
10:36
Now, if I had ever opened打開 the folder
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現在,如果我打開資料夾
10:39
with the 600 pictures圖片 in it,
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裡面有600張照片
10:42
I would have spent花費 another另一個 hour小時.
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我可能要多花一小時回憶
10:44
Now, that is three weeks,
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三周的旅程
10:46
and that is at most an hour小時 and a half.
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最多用一個半小時回憶
10:48
There seems似乎 to be a discrepancy差異.
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這似乎不成比例
10:50
Now, I may可能 be a bit extreme極端, you know,
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現在,這讓我有點不滿
10:52
in how little appetite食慾 I have for consuming消費 memories回憶,
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因為我記得的真是太少了
10:55
but even if you do more of this,
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不過就算你記得再多
10:58
there is a genuine真正 question:
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這裡有個實際的問題
11:01
Why do we put so much weight重量 on memory記憶
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為什麼我們這麼依賴記憶
11:05
relative相對的 to the weight重量 that we put on experiences經驗?
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比依賴經驗還多
11:08
So I want you to think
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所以我希望你能思考
11:10
about a thought experiment實驗.
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一個有關思考的實驗
11:13
Imagine想像 that for your next下一個 vacation假期,
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想像你的下次假期
11:15
you know that at the end結束 of the vacation假期
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你知道假期結束後
11:18
all your pictures圖片 will be destroyed銷毀,
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你的所有照片會被銷毀
11:21
and you'll你會 get an amnesic遺忘 drug藥物
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你將吞下一顆遺忘藥
11:23
so that you won't慣於 remember記得 anything.
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所以你什麼都不會記得
11:25
Now, would you choose選擇 the same相同 vacation假期? (Laughter笑聲)
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這樣,你還會想過同樣的假期嗎?
11:29
And if you would choose選擇 a different不同 vacation假期,
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如果你選了個不同的假期
11:34
there is a conflict衝突 between之間 your two selves自我,
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你的兩個我之間將產生衝突
11:36
and you need to think about how to adjudicate裁定 that conflict衝突,
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你得想辦法裁決這衝突
11:39
and it's actually其實 not at all obvious明顯, because
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這不怎麼容易
11:42
if you think in terms條款 of time,
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因為若你考慮到時間
11:45
then you get one answer回答,
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你會選不同的假期
11:48
and if you think in terms條款 of memories回憶,
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但若你考量到記憶
11:51
you might威力 get another另一個 answer回答.
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你可能會選相同的假期
11:53
Why do we pick the vacations休假 we do
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我們為什麼選此而非彼
11:56
is a problem問題 that confronts面對 us
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所要面對的問題
11:59
with a choice選擇 between之間 the two selves自我.
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是在兩個我之間作選擇
12:01
Now, the two selves自我
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現在,這兩個我
12:04
bring帶來 up two notions概念 of happiness幸福.
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帶來兩種對快樂的見解
12:06
There are really two concepts概念 of happiness幸福
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這兩套見解
12:08
that we can apply應用, one per self.
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分別對應了兩個我
12:11
So you can ask: How happy快樂 is the experiencing經歷 self?
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因此你會問"經驗的我有多快樂?"
12:16
And then you would ask: How happy快樂 are the moments瞬間
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接著問,經驗的我
12:18
in the experiencing經歷 self's自我的 life?
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每一刻有多快樂?
12:21
And they're all -- happiness幸福 for moments瞬間
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所有這些快樂的時刻
12:23
is a fairly相當 complicated複雜 process處理.
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組成過程相當複雜
12:25
What are the emotions情緒 that can be measured測量?
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情感該如何測量?
12:28
And, by the way, now we are capable
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順帶一提,我們現在
12:30
of getting得到 a pretty漂亮 good idea理念
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對於經驗的我隨著時間感受快樂
12:32
of the happiness幸福 of the experiencing經歷 self over time.
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已經有了概念
12:38
If you ask for the happiness幸福 of the remembering記憶 self,
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而記憶的我所指的快樂
12:41
it's a completely全然 different不同 thing.
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概念完全不同
12:43
This is not about how happily高高興興 a person lives生活.
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這不是一個人生活多快樂的問題
12:46
It is about how satisfied滿意 or pleased滿意 the person is
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而是他對於自己的人生
12:49
when that person thinks about her life.
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多滿意,多喜歡
12:53
Very different不同 notion概念.
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見解南轅北轍
12:55
Anyone任何人 who doesn't distinguish區分 those notions概念
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若不能分辨這兩項見解
12:58
is going to mess食堂 up the study研究 of happiness幸福,
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就參不透快樂這門學問
13:00
and I belong屬於 to a crowd人群 of students學生們 of well-being福利,
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我和其他活得好的學生一樣
13:03
who've誰一直 been messing搞亂 up the study研究 of happiness幸福 for a long time
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一直以來參不透快樂
13:07
in precisely恰恰 this way.
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就是這個原因
13:09
The distinction分別 between之間 the
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近年來
13:11
happiness幸福 of the experiencing經歷 self
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經驗的我的快樂
13:13
and the satisfaction滿意 of the remembering記憶 self
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和記憶的我的滿足
13:16
has been recognized認可 in recent最近 years年份,
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之間的差別已能分清
13:18
and there are now efforts努力 to measure測量 the two separately分別.
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目前正努力要分別測量兩者的程度
13:21
The Gallup蓋洛普 Organization組織 has a world世界 poll輪詢
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蓋洛普在世界各地做民調
13:24
where more than half a million百萬 people
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其中超過50萬人
13:26
have been asked questions問題
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曾被問到一些問題
13:28
about what they think of their life
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看他們如何看待自己的生活
13:30
and about their experiences經驗,
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以及他們如何看待經驗
13:32
and there have been other efforts努力 along沿 those lines.
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這些問題外,也做了不少調查
13:35
So in recent最近 years年份, we have begun開始 to learn學習
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所以近年來,我們逐漸得知
13:38
about the happiness幸福 of the two selves自我.
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兩個我個別的快樂
13:41
And the main主要 lesson I think that we have learned學到了
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而我們主要學到的便是
13:44
is they are really different不同.
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兩者真的很不一樣
13:46
You can know how satisfied滿意 somebody is with their life,
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你可以知道一個人對生活是否滿意
13:51
and that really doesn't teach you much
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但這並不能告訴你
13:53
about how happily高高興興 they're living活的 their life,
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他們平常活得多快樂
13:56
and vice versa反之亦然.
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反之亦然
13:58
Just to give you a sense of the correlation相關,
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只是要讓你對其中的關聯有概念
14:00
the correlation相關 is about .5.
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關聯約有五點
14:02
What that means手段 is if you met會見 somebody,
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意思是當你見到某個人
14:05
and you were told, "Oh his father父親 is six feet tall,"
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並被告知他爸爸六呎高
14:09
how much would you know about his height高度?
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你能知道他有多高嗎?
14:11
Well, you would know something about his height高度,
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好吧,你可能有個概念
14:13
but there's a lot of uncertainty不確定.
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但非常不確定
14:15
You have that much uncertainty不確定.
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你沒法篤定
14:17
If I tell you that somebody ranked排名 their life eight on a scale規模 of ten,
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若我說有人10分裡給自己的生活8分
14:21
you have a lot of uncertainty不確定
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你不能把握
14:23
about how happy快樂 they are
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他們經驗的我
14:25
with their experiencing經歷 self.
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有多快樂
14:27
So the correlation相關 is low.
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所以關聯性很低
14:29
We know something about what controls控制
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我們知道什麼能夠
14:32
satisfaction滿意 of the happiness幸福 self.
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讓人的快樂得到滿足
14:34
We know that money is very important重要,
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我們知道錢很重要
14:36
goals目標 are very important重要.
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目標非常重要
14:38
We know that happiness幸福 is mainly主要
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我們知道要滿足快樂
14:42
being存在 satisfied滿意 with people that we like,
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主要是由我們喜愛的人
14:45
spending開支 time with people that we like.
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和他們在一起的時間來感受
14:48
There are other pleasures樂趣, but this is dominant優勢.
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雖然有其他的原因,但這是最主要的
14:50
So if you want to maximize最大化 the happiness幸福 of the two selves自我,
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所以若你想讓兩個我都超快樂
14:53
you are going to end結束 up
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你必須拋開過去的方式
14:55
doing very different不同 things.
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做一些很不同的事情
14:57
The bottom底部 line of what I've said here
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我說的是,至少
14:59
is that we really should not think of happiness幸福
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我們不應該把快樂
15:03
as a substitute替代 for well-being福利.
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當作活得好的代名詞
15:05
It is a completely全然 different不同 notion概念.
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兩個完全不一樣
15:08
Now, very quickly很快,
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現在,很快地
15:11
another另一個 reason原因 we cannot不能 think straight直行 about happiness幸福
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另個我們不能理解快樂本質的原因
15:15
is that we do not attend出席 to the same相同 things
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在於我們所指不同
15:22
when we think about life, and we actually其實 live生活.
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怎麼看生活,和實際怎麼過生活不一樣
15:25
So, if you ask the simple簡單 question of how happy快樂 people are in California加州,
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所以當你問加州的人有多快樂
15:30
you are not going to get to the correct正確 answer回答.
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你將得不到正確答案
15:33
When you ask that question,
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因為當你這麼問時
15:35
you think people must必須 be happier幸福 in California加州
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你認為住加州一定比較快樂
15:37
if, say, you live生活 in Ohio俄亥俄州.
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剛好,你住在俄亥俄洲
15:39
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
15:41
And what happens發生 is
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當你在想
15:44
when you think about living活的 in California加州,
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住在加州有多快樂時
15:48
you are thinking思維 of the contrast對比
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你會想到
15:50
between之間 California加州 and other places地方,
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加州和其他地方的差異
15:53
and that contrast對比, say, is in climate氣候.
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差異,其實是氣候的不同
15:55
Well, it turns out that climate氣候
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這也證明氣候條件
15:57
is not very important重要 to the experiencing經歷 self
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對於經驗的我並不很重要
16:00
and it's not even very important重要 to the reflective反光 self
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事實上對衡量人有多快樂
16:03
that decides決定 how happy快樂 people are.
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也不太重要
16:06
But now, because the reflective反光 self is in charge收費,
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不過,既然現在是由思考主導
16:10
you may可能 end結束 up -- some people may可能 end結束 up
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一些人可能會得到一個結論
16:12
moving移動 to California加州.
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就是搬到加州
16:14
And it's sort分類 of interesting有趣 to trace跟踪 what is going to happen發生
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追蹤為了更快樂而搬去加州的人
16:17
to people who move移動 to California加州 in the hope希望 of getting得到 happier幸福.
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觀看他們的後續發展,相當有趣
16:20
Well, their experiencing經歷 self
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他們的經驗的我
16:22
is not going to get happier幸福.
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不會變得比較快樂
16:24
We know that.
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這我們都知道
16:27
But one thing will happen發生: They will think they are happier幸福,
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不過一件事發生了,他們覺得自己快樂多了.
16:30
because, when they think about it,
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因為在他們思考時
16:34
they'll他們會 be reminded提醒 of how horrible可怕 the weather天氣 was in Ohio俄亥俄州,
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他們會想到俄亥俄州的壞天氣
16:38
and they will feel they made製作 the right decision決定.
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並覺得自己做了正確的決定
16:41
It is very difficult
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要理解快樂生活
16:43
to think straight直行 about well-being福利,
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實在很難
16:45
and I hope希望 I have given特定 you a sense
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我希望已經讓你們有點概念
16:48
of how difficult it is.
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明白這到底有多難
16:50
Thank you.
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謝謝
16:52
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
16:55
Chris克里斯 Anderson安德森: Thank you. I've got a question for you.
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謝謝你的演說,我有問題想請教你
16:59
Thank you so much.
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真的很感謝你
17:01
Now, when we were on the phone電話 a few少數 weeks ago,
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我們幾星期前在電話裡
17:05
you mentioned提到 to me that there was quite相當 an interesting有趣 result結果
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你提過蓋洛普的調查中
17:08
came來了 out of that Gallup蓋洛普 survey調查.
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有個有趣的發現
17:10
Is that something you can share分享
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現在你可以跟我們分享一下嗎
17:12
since以來 you do have a few少數 moments瞬間 left now?
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還有幾分鐘
17:14
Daniel丹尼爾 Kahneman卡尼曼: Sure.
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好的
17:16
I think the most interesting有趣 result結果 that we found發現 in the Gallup蓋洛普 survey調查
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我想蓋洛普調查的發現,最有趣的
17:19
is a number, which哪一個 we absolutely絕對 did not expect期望 to find.
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是個數字,能發現它實屬意外
17:22
We found發現 that with respect尊重 to the happiness幸福
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我們發現關於經驗我的快樂
17:24
of the experiencing經歷 self.
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有個現象
17:27
When we looked看著 at how feelings情懷,
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就是人的感覺
17:32
vary變化 with income收入.
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會隨收入而不同
17:34
And it turns out that, below下面 an income收入
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結果發現,對美國人而言
17:37
of 60,000 dollars美元 a year, for Americans美國人 --
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年收入低於6萬美元的人
17:40
and that's a very large sample樣品 of Americans美國人, like 600,000,
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佔了樣本中很大一部份,約60萬
17:43
so it's a large representative代表 sample樣品 --
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但這些年收入低於60萬美元的樣本
17:45
below下面 an income收入 of 600,000 dollars美元 a year...
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相當具有指標性
17:47
CACA: 60,000.
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是6萬美元
17:49
DKDK: 60,000.
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6萬美元
17:51
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
17:53
60,000 dollars美元 a year, people are unhappy不快樂,
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年收入6萬美元的人不快樂
17:57
and they get progressively逐步 unhappier不快樂 the poorer they get.
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而且越窮的人數據顯示越不快樂
18:00
Above以上 that, we get an absolutely絕對 flat平面 line.
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6萬以上,我們得到一條水平線
18:03
I mean I've rarely很少 seen看到 lines so flat平面.
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難得看到這麼平坦的線
18:06
Clearly明確地, what is happening事件 is
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顯然
18:08
money does not buy購買 you experiential體驗 happiness幸福,
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金錢買不了經驗的快樂
18:11
but lack缺乏 of money certainly當然 buys購買 you misery苦難,
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但沒錢除了悲慘什麼都買不到
18:14
and we can measure測量 that misery苦難
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而悲慘的程度差別
18:16
very, very clearly明確地.
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顯而易見
18:18
In terms條款 of the other self, the remembering記憶 self,
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就另一個我,記憶的我而言
18:21
you get a different不同 story故事.
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你有了不一樣的故事
18:23
The more money you earn, the more satisfied滿意 you are.
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你賺得越多就越滿意
18:26
That does not hold保持 for emotions情緒.
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跟情感沒有關係
18:28
CACA: But Danny丹尼, the whole整個 American美國 endeavor努力 is about
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可是丹尼,所有美國人奮鬥的目標是
18:31
life, liberty自由, the pursuit追求 of happiness幸福.
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生命,自由和追求幸福的權利
18:34
If people took seriously認真地 that finding發現,
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如果大家認真看待這項發現
18:38
I mean, it seems似乎 to turn upside上邊 down
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似乎就顛覆了
18:41
everything we believe about, like for example,
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我們相信的一切
18:43
taxation稅收 policy政策 and so forth向前.
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好比課稅政策等
18:45
Is there any chance機會 that politicians政治家, that the country國家 generally通常,
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政治人物,國家有沒有可能
18:48
would take a finding發現 like that seriously認真地
415
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正視這樣的發現
18:51
and run public上市 policy政策 based基於 on it?
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依此施政
18:53
DKDK: You know I think that there is recognition承認
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我想快樂研究在政策中
18:55
of the role角色 of happiness幸福 research研究 in public上市 policy政策.
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所扮演的角色這項認知
18:58
The recognition承認 is going to be slow in the United聯合的 States狀態,
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在美國散播速度緩慢
19:00
no question about that,
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無庸置疑
19:02
but in the U.K., it is happening事件,
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但在英國,他正持續發酵
19:04
and in other countries國家 it is happening事件.
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在其他國家也是
19:06
People are recognizing認識 that they ought應該
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一般人開始認知到
19:09
to be thinking思維 of happiness幸福
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他們應該在思考政策時
19:11
when they think of public上市 policy政策.
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同時將快樂納入考量
19:13
It's going to take a while,
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這要花些時間
19:15
and people are going to debate辯論
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人民將開始思考
19:18
whether是否 they want to study研究 experience經驗 happiness幸福,
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他們要的是經驗的快樂
19:20
or whether是否 they want to study研究 life evaluation評測,
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或是要為生活打分數
19:22
so we need to have that debate辯論 fairly相當 soon不久.
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因此很快,我們將要理解這個問題
19:25
How to enhance提高 happiness幸福
431
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如何增進快樂
19:27
goes very different不同 ways方法 depending根據 on how you think,
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有各種不同方式,事關你怎麼想
19:30
and whether是否 you think of the remembering記憶 self
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想的是記憶的我
19:32
or you think of the experiencing經歷 self.
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還是經驗的我
19:34
This is going to influence影響 policy政策, I think, in years年份 to come.
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我想幾年之內,這將影響政策
19:37
In the United聯合的 States狀態, efforts努力 are being存在 made製作
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美國內付出許多努力
19:40
to measure測量 the experience經驗 happiness幸福 of the population人口.
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來衡量大眾經驗的快樂
19:43
This is going to be, I think, within the next下一個 decade or two,
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我想,十年到二十年內
19:46
part部分 of national國民 statistics統計.
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這將列為國內統計數據的一部份
19:48
CACA: Well, it seems似乎 to me that this issue問題 will -- or at least最小 should be --
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這個議題對我來說似乎
19:52
the most interesting有趣 policy政策 discussion討論 to track跟踪
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至少是幾年內
19:54
over the next下一個 few少數 years年份.
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最有趣的政策討論議題
19:56
Thank you so much for inventing發明了 behavioral行為的 economics經濟學.
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感謝你創造了行為經濟學
19:58
Thank you, Danny丹尼 Kahneman卡尼曼.
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感謝丹尼爾卡內曼
Translated by SHU-AN WU
Reviewed by Adrienne Lin

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Daniel Kahneman - Behavioral economics founder
Widely regarded as the world's most influential living psychologist, Daniel Kahneman won the Nobel in Economics for his pioneering work in behavioral economics -- exploring the irrational ways we make decisions about risk.

Why you should listen

Daniel Kahneman is an eminence grise for the Freakonomics crowd. In the mid-1970s, with his collaborator Amos Tversky, he was among the first academics to pick apart exactly why we make "wrong" decisions. In their 1979 paper on prospect theory, Kahneman and Tversky examined a simple problem of economic risk. And rather than stating the optimal, rational answer, as an economist of the time might have, they quantified how most real people, consistently, make a less-rational choice. Their work treated economics not as a perfect or self-correcting machine, but as a system prey to quirks of human perception. The field of behavioral economics was born.

Kahneman was awarded the Nobel Memorial prize in 2002 for his work with Tversky, who died before the award was bestowed. In a lovely passage in his Nobel biography, Kahneman looks back on his deep collaboration with Tversky and calls for a new form of academic cooperation, marked not by turf battles but by "adversarial collaboration," a good-faith effort by unlike minds to conduct joint research, critiquing each other in the service of an ideal of truth to which both can contribute.

More profile about the speaker
Daniel Kahneman | Speaker | TED.com