TEDSummit
Alexander Betts: Why Brexit happened -- and what to do next
Alexander Betts: 點解英國脫歐？下一步點樣做？
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社會科學家 Alexander Betts 指出我哋好唔為意我哋個社會有幾分裂；英國脫歐係源於深層次、未探討過嘅社會分裂，分裂出兩班人︰一班人怕全球化，另一班人擁護全球化。面對呢種害怕同埋對政治體制愈嚟愈失望，而又拒絕仇外同民族主義，我哋應該點做？聽下佢講後英國脫歐時代，令世界更包容嘅四個步驟。
Alexander Betts - Social scientist
Alexander Betts explores ways societies might empower refugees rather than pushing them to the margins. Full bio
Alexander Betts explores ways societies might empower refugees rather than pushing them to the margins. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
I am British.
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我係英國人
00:15
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
00:17
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
00:20
Never before has the phrase
"I am British" elicited so much pity.
"I am British" elicited so much pity.
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「我係英國人」呢句說話
從來未引起過咁多人同情
00:24
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
00:26
I come from an island
where many of us like to believe
where many of us like to believe
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我嚟自一個島國
好多人都相信
過去咁多年有好多嘢持續發生緊
過去咁多年有好多嘢持續發生緊
00:29
there's been a lot of continuity
over the last thousand years.
over the last thousand years.
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歷史上，我哋傾向改變其他國家
00:33
We tend to have historically
imposed change on others
imposed change on others
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00:36
but done much less of it ourselves.
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但好少改變自己
00:39
So it came as an immense shock to me
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所以當我六月廿四號朝早起身
00:41
when I woke up on the morning of June 24
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發現我個國家公投結果係脫歐之後
00:44
to discover that my country
had voted to leave the European Union,
had voted to leave the European Union,
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我好震驚
首相辭咗職
00:48
my Prime Minister had resigned,
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蘇格蘭講緊第二場公投
00:50
and Scotland was considering a referendum
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有可能令英國瓦解
00:53
that could bring to an end
the very existence of the United Kingdom.
the very existence of the United Kingdom.
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00:58
So that was an immense shock for me,
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所以成件事對於我嚟講都幾震撼
01:01
and it was an immense
shock for many people,
shock for many people,
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對於好多人嚟講都係
01:05
but it was also something
that, over the following several days,
that, over the following several days,
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但呢件事幾日後
發展成我國家嘅一個政治危機
01:08
created a complete political meltdown
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01:11
in my country.
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01:12
There were calls for a second referendum,
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有呼聲話要舉行第二場公投
01:15
almost as if, following a sports match,
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呢個情況就好似運動比賽完咗
01:17
we could ask the opposition for a replay.
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我哋叫對手重新比賽一樣
01:20
Everybody was blaming everybody else.
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每個人都指責其他人
人民指責首相
01:23
People blamed the Prime Minister
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話佢當初做咩搞公投
01:24
for calling the referendum
in the first place.
in the first place.
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01:27
They blamed the leader of the opposition
for not fighting it hard enough.
for not fighting it hard enough.
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啲人鬧在野黨黨魁唔夠努力爭取
後生指控老人家
01:30
The young accused the old.
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受過教育責備無受過良好教育嘅
01:31
The educated blamed
the less well-educated.
the less well-educated.
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01:35
That complete meltdown was made even worse
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危機裏面最不幸嘅事
令成個危機更差
01:38
by the most tragic element of it:
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仇外同種族情緒充斥喺英國街頭
01:40
levels of xenophobia and racist abuse
in the streets of Britain
in the streets of Britain
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01:44
at a level that I have never seen before
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去到我前所未見嘅水平
01:46
in my lifetime.
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01:49
People are now talking about whether
my country is becoming a Little England,
my country is becoming a Little England,
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啲人宜家講緊究竟我個國家
會變成小英格蘭
定係好似我同事話齋
01:54
or, as one of my colleagues put it,
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01:56
whether we're about to become
a 1950s nostalgia theme park
a 1950s nostalgia theme park
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變成一個浮沉喺大西洋嘅
五十年代懷舊公園
02:00
floating in the Atlantic Ocean.
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02:02
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
02:05
But my question is really,
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但我嘅問題係
02:08
should we have the degree of shock
that we've experienced since?
that we've experienced since?
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我哋應唔應該保持震驚嘅程度呢？
02:13
Was it something
that took place overnight?
that took place overnight?
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究竟脫歐係咪一夜之間出現呢？
02:15
Or are there deeper structural factors
that have led us to where we are today?
that have led us to where we are today?
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定係有深層結構性因素
令我哋走到今日咁嘅地步？
02:20
So I want to take a step back
and ask two very basic questions.
and ask two very basic questions.
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我想退一步，問兩個好基本嘅問題
02:24
First, what does Brexit represent,
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第一，英國脫歐代表咩？
02:27
not just for my country,
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唔只對我國家
佢對全世界有咩意思？
02:29
but for all of us around the world?
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02:32
And second, what can we do about it?
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第二，我哋可以喺脫歐之後做啲乜？
02:35
How should we all respond?
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我哋要點樣應對？
02:37
So first, what does Brexit represent?
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返去第一條問題，英國脫歐代表咩？
02:40
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
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事後孔明係一件有趣嘅事
02:43
Brexit teaches us many things
about our society
about our society
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脫歐教曉好多關於我哋社會嘅嘢
02:47
and about societies around the world.
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以至世界上其他社會嘅嘢
02:51
It highlights in ways
that we seem embarrassingly unaware of
that we seem embarrassingly unaware of
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脫歐呢件事反映咗
我哋唔為意我哋社會有幾分裂
02:54
how divided our societies are.
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02:56
The vote split along lines of age,
education, class and geography.
education, class and geography.
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投票取向因年齡、教育程度、
階級同地理位置而唔同
03:03
Young people didn't turn out
to vote in great numbers,
to vote in great numbers,
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年輕人唔踴躍投票
03:06
but those that did wanted to remain.
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但出咗嚟投票嘅年輕人都投咗留歐
03:08
Older people really wanted
to leave the European Union.
to leave the European Union.
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長者想脫歐
03:12
Geographically, it was London and Scotland
that most strongly committed
that most strongly committed
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地理上，倫敦同蘇格蘭最想留歐
03:15
to being part of the European Union,
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03:17
while in other parts of the country
there was very strong ambivalence.
there was very strong ambivalence.
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而其他地方就一半一半
03:23
Those divisions are things we really
need to recognize and take seriously.
need to recognize and take seriously.
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取態唔同係我哋需要認真看待嘅嘢
03:27
But more profoundly,
the vote teaches us something
the vote teaches us something
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但更重要既係
公投話咗畀我哋聽今日嘅政治形勢
03:30
about the nature of politics today.
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03:32
Contemporary politics
is no longer just about right and left.
is no longer just about right and left.
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當代政治唔再只係左翼同右翼
唔再只係交稅同開支
03:36
It's no longer just about tax and spend.
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03:39
It's about globalization.
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當代政治係講緊全球化
03:41
The fault line of contemporary politics is
between those that embrace globalization
between those that embrace globalization
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當代政治嘅分裂在於
鍾意同害怕全球化之間
03:46
and those that fear globalization.
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03:50
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
03:55
If we look at why
those who wanted to leave --
those who wanted to leave --
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如果我哋睇下想脫歐嘅人
03:58
we call them "Leavers,"
as opposed to "Remainers" --
as opposed to "Remainers" --
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我哋叫佢哋做脫歐陣營
相反嘅係留歐陣營
相反嘅係留歐陣營
04:00
we see two factors in the opinion polls
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我哋見到民意調查裏面
兩個好重要嘅因素
兩個好重要嘅因素
04:03
that really mattered.
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04:04
The first was immigration,
and the second sovereignty,
and the second sovereignty,
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第一係移民，其次係國家主權
04:07
and these represent a desire for people
to take back control of their own lives
to take back control of their own lives
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呢兩樣都代表咗
啲人想爭取返佢哋生活嘅自主權
代表佢哋覺得
04:13
and the feeling that they
are unrepresented by politicians.
are unrepresented by politicians.
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參政嘅人唔代表佢哋
04:18
But those ideas are ones
that signify fear and alienation.
that signify fear and alienation.
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但呢啲脫歐諗法意味住恐懼同孤立
04:23
They represent a retreat
back towards nationalism and borders
back towards nationalism and borders
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代表倒退到民族主義同邊界管制嘅年代
04:29
in ways that many of us would reject.
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而我哋好多人都接受唔到
04:31
What I want to suggest is the picture
is more complicated than that,
is more complicated than that,
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我想講成件事嘅更加複雜
04:34
that liberal internationalists,
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自由國際主義者，好似我咁
04:36
like myself, and I firmly
include myself in that picture,
include myself in that picture,
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需要將自己擺埋落成件事裏面
04:39
need to write ourselves
back into the picture
back into the picture
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04:42
in order to understand
how we've got to where we are today.
how we've got to where we are today.
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至可以明白
我哋點樣走到今時今日嘅地步
04:47
When we look at the voting patterns
across the United Kingdom,
across the United Kingdom,
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我哋睇返投票分佈
04:50
we can visibly see the divisions.
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我哋見到分裂
04:53
The blue areas show Remain
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藍色係留歐
04:55
and the red areas Leave.
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紅色係脫歐
04:57
When I looked at this,
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當我睇到呢幅圖
04:59
what personally struck me
was the very little time in my life
was the very little time in my life
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我覺得好震撼嘅係
我人生冇幾多時間喺紅色嘅地方生活
05:02
I've actually spent
in many of the red areas.
in many of the red areas.
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05:06
I suddenly realized that,
looking at the top 50 areas in the UK
looking at the top 50 areas in the UK
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望住頭五十個最想脫歐嘅地方
05:11
that have the strongest Leave vote,
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我突然意識到
05:13
I've spent a combined total
of four days of my life in those areas.
of four days of my life in those areas.
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我只係花咗四日喺呢啲哋方生活
呢五十個地方當中
05:19
In some of those places,
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05:21
I didn't even know the names
of the voting districts.
of the voting districts.
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我甚至唔知道一啲選區嘅名
05:24
It was a real shock to me,
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我對呢樣嘢好驚訝
05:26
and it suggested that people like me
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呢樣嘢亦都反映
好似我以為自己包容、開放、忍耐嘅人
05:28
who think of ourselves
as inclusive, open and tolerant,
as inclusive, open and tolerant,
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05:32
perhaps don't know
our own countries and societies
our own countries and societies
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或者對於我哋嘅國家同社會
同自己願意去相信嘅事物一樣咁唔清楚
05:35
nearly as well as we like to believe.
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05:38
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
05:48
And the challenge that comes from that
is we need to find a new way
is we need to find a new way
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而伴隨著嘅挑戰係我哋要搵新方法
05:52
to narrate globalization to those people,
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向支持脫歐嘅人解釋全球化
05:55
to recognize that for those people who
have not necessarily been to university,
have not necessarily been to university,
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同埋要明白呢啲人未必讀過大學
05:59
who haven't necessarily
grown up with the Internet,
grown up with the Internet,
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互聯網未必陪伴佢哋成長
06:01
that don't get opportunities to travel,
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佢哋未必去過旅行
06:04
they may be unpersuaded
by the narrative that we find persuasive
by the narrative that we find persuasive
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佢哋可能未被我哋自由社會裏面
覺得有說服嘅嘢說服
06:07
in our often liberal bubbles.
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06:10
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
06:15
It means that we need to reach out
more broadly and understand.
more broadly and understand.
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即係話我哋要接觸同埋理解更多
06:19
In the Leave vote, a minority have peddled
the politics of fear and hatred,
the politics of fear and hatred,
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喺呢次公投裏面
小數人激起政治恐懼同憎恨
06:25
creating lies and mistrust
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導致謊言同唔信任四起
06:28
around, for instance,
the idea that the vote on Europe
the idea that the vote on Europe
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例如，留歐其實可以減少
06:31
could reduce the number of refugees
and asylum-seekers coming to Europe,
and asylum-seekers coming to Europe,
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嚟歐洲嘅難民同申請庇護嘅人數
06:35
when the vote on leaving
had nothing to do with immigration
had nothing to do with immigration
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但脫歐就一啲都做唔到
06:38
from outside the European Union.
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06:41
But for a significant majority
of the Leave voters
of the Leave voters
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大多數脫歐支持者嘅憂慮
06:44
the concern was disillusionment
with the political establishment.
with the political establishment.
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係對政治體制嘅幻滅
呢場公投其實係一場抗議
06:48
This was a protest vote for many,
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抗議政制裏面無人代表到佢哋
06:50
a sense that nobody represented them,
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06:53
that they couldn't find
a political party that spoke for them,
a political party that spoke for them,
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佢哋搵唔到為佢哋發聲嘅政黨
06:56
and so they rejected
that political establishment.
that political establishment.
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於是佢哋唔要宜家嘅政治體制
07:01
This replicates around Europe
and much of the liberal democratic world.
and much of the liberal democratic world.
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呢種不滿政制嘅情況喺歐洲
同好多自由民主嘅國家重覆出現
07:06
We see it with the rise in popularity
of Donald Trump in the United States,
of Donald Trump in the United States,
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同時，我哋見到特朗普喺美國冒起
07:11
with the growing nationalism
of Viktor Orbán in Hungary,
of Viktor Orbán in Hungary,
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匈牙利總理奧班嘅民族主義喺當地冒起
07:15
with the increase in popularity
of Marine Le Pen in France.
of Marine Le Pen in France.
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馬琳 · 勒龐喺法國嘅愈嚟愈受歡迎
成個社會裏面都有支持英國脫歐嘅人
07:20
The specter of Brexit
is in all of our societies.
is in all of our societies.
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07:25
So the question I think we need to ask
is my second question,
is my second question,
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咁我哋就要問第二個問題
07:28
which is how should we
collectively respond?
collectively respond?
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我哋要點樣一齊應對？
07:31
For all of us who care about creating
liberal, open, tolerant societies,
liberal, open, tolerant societies,
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對於我哋關心營造
自由、開放、寛容社會嘅人嚟講
07:37
we urgently need a new vision,
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我哋急需要新願景
07:39
a vision of a more tolerant,
inclusive globalization,
inclusive globalization,
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營造更包容同更寛容嘅全球化
07:43
one that brings people with us
rather than leaving them behind.
rather than leaving them behind.
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令我哋走埋一齊，而唔係拋低邊個
07:48
That vision of globalization
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而當呢個全球化願景開始嘅時候
07:50
is one that has to start by a recognition
of the positive benefits of globalization.
of the positive benefits of globalization.
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我哋需要認識全球化嘅好處
07:55
The consensus amongst economists
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經濟學家都有共識
07:58
is that free trade,
the movement of capital,
the movement of capital,
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全球化有利自由貿易、資金同人嘅流動
08:00
the movement of people across borders
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有利所有走埋一齊嘅人
08:02
benefit everyone on aggregate.
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08:05
The consensus amongst
international relations scholars
international relations scholars
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至於國際關係學者都同意
08:08
is that globalization
brings interdependence,
brings interdependence,
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全球化令國與國更加倚靠對方
08:10
which brings cooperation and peace.
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促成合作同和平
08:13
But globalization
also has redistributive effects.
also has redistributive effects.
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但全球化有重新分配嘅效果
08:18
It creates winners and losers.
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佢創造贏家同輸家
08:21
To take the example of migration,
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用移民做例子
08:23
we know that immigration is a net positive
for the economy as a whole
for the economy as a whole
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我哋知道移民喺大多數情況下
08:26
under almost all circumstances.
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對經濟都係正面嘅
08:30
But we also have to be very aware
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但我哋亦都要好小心
08:33
that there are
redistributive consequences,
redistributive consequences,
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全球化帶嚟重新分配嘅結果
08:36
that importantly, low-skilled immigration
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尤其低技術移民
08:39
can lead to a reduction in wages
for the most impoverished in our societies
for the most impoverished in our societies
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可以令社會最貧困嘅一群工資下降
08:44
and also put pressure on house prices.
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而且低技術移民會推高物業價格
08:46
That doesn't detract
from the fact that it's positive,
from the fact that it's positive,
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但以上都削弱唔到全球化嘅正面影響
08:48
but it means more people
have to share in those benefits
have to share in those benefits
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全球化只會令更多人受到正面影響
08:51
and recognize them.
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08:55
In 2002, the former Secretary-General
of the United Nations, Kofi Annan,
of the United Nations, Kofi Annan,
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2002 年，前聯合國秘書長安南
喺耶魯大學發表演講
09:00
gave a speech at Yale University,
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09:03
and that speech was on the topic
of inclusive globalization.
of inclusive globalization.
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演講圍繞包容性全球化
09:07
That was the speech
in which he coined that term.
in which he coined that term.
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佢喺演講裏面創造咗
「包容性全球化」呢個詞
「包容性全球化」呢個詞
09:10
And he said, and I paraphrase,
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我轉述返佢講嘅嘢︰
09:12
"The glass house of globalization
has to be open to all
has to be open to all
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「全球化如果要保持穩當嘅話
09:18
if it is to remain secure.
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佢嘅大門就要向所有人打開
09:21
Bigotry and ignorance
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偏執同無知係排外同對抗全球化」
09:24
are the ugly face of exclusionary
and antagonistic globalization."
and antagonistic globalization."
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2008 年，好多歐洲國家領袖參與
09:31
That idea of inclusive globalization
was briefly revived in 2008
was briefly revived in 2008
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一個有關漸進式管治嘅會議
09:36
in a conference on progressive governance
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包容性全球化嘅概念再次被提出
09:38
involving many of the leaders
of European countries.
of European countries.
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09:43
But amid austerity
and the financial crisis of 2008,
and the financial crisis of 2008,
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但 2008 年金融海嘯
同實行緊縮措施嗰陣
09:47
the concept disappeared
almost without a trace.
almost without a trace.
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呢個概念消失得無影無蹤
09:50
Globalization has been taken
to support a neoliberal agenda.
to support a neoliberal agenda.
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全球化一直用喺新自由綱領裏面
09:54
It's perceived to be
part of an elite agenda
part of an elite agenda
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全球化被認為係精英人士嘅綱領
多過係有利各方嘅事物
09:57
rather than something that benefits all.
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10:00
And it needs to be reclaimed
on a far more inclusive basis
on a far more inclusive basis
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明日嘅全球化應該要比今日更加包容
10:03
than it is today.
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10:05
So the question is,
how can we achieve that goal?
how can we achieve that goal?
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咁問題係，我哋點樣做到呢？
10:09
How can we balance on the one hand
addressing fear and alienation
addressing fear and alienation
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我哋點樣顧及恐懼、孤立嘅情緒
10:14
while on the other hand
refusing vehemently
refusing vehemently
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而拒絕仇外、民族主義呢？
10:17
to give in to xenophobia and nationalism?
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10:21
That is the question for all of us.
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呢條問題係畀我哋所有人
10:23
And I think, as a social scientist,
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作為社會科學家
10:25
that social science
offers some places to start.
offers some places to start.
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我覺得社會科學係解決問題嘅好開始
10:29
Our transformation has to be about
both ideas and about material change,
both ideas and about material change,
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我哋需要係意念上同物質上轉變
10:34
and I want to give you four ideas
as a starting point.
as a starting point.
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我想講四個諗法作為你哋嘅開始
10:37
The first relates to the idea
of civic education.
of civic education.
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第一係同公民教育有關
10:42
What stands out from Brexit
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英國脫歐最突出嘅係
10:44
is the gap between public perception
and empirical reality.
and empirical reality.
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公眾認知同現實差距
10:48
It's been suggested that we've moved
to a postfactual society,
to a postfactual society,
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有人話我哋社會變成唔講事實
10:52
where evidence and truth no longer matter,
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證據同真相唔再重要
10:54
and lies have equal status
to the clarity of evidence.
to the clarity of evidence.
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反而大話同證據有同等地位
10:58
So how can we --
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咁我哋點…
11:00
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
11:02
How can we rebuild respect for truth
and evidence into our liberal democracies?
and evidence into our liberal democracies?
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喺呢個自由民主嘅社會裏面
我哋點重新尊重真相同證據？
11:08
It has to begin with education,
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咁就要由教育著手
11:10
but it has to start with the recognition
that there are huge gaps.
that there are huge gaps.
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但要由認識巨大嘅差距開始
11:14
In 2014, the pollster Ipsos MORI
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2014 年，民意調查機構 Ipsos MORI
11:18
published a survey
on attitudes to immigration,
on attitudes to immigration,
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公佈一個英國人對於移民嘅態度調查
11:21
and it showed that as numbers
of immigrants increase,
of immigrants increase,
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調查顯示移民嚟英國嘅人愈多
11:26
so public concern
with immigration also increases,
with immigration also increases,
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公眾愈關注移民嘅情況
11:29
although it obviously
didn't unpack causality,
didn't unpack causality,
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雖然調查明顯無解構其中嘅因果關係
11:31
because this could equally be to do
not so much with numbers
not so much with numbers
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因為可能唔太關數字事
11:34
but the political
and media narrative around it.
and media narrative around it.
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但政治同傳媒方面就覺得兩者有關係
但同一個調查發現
11:37
But the same survey also revealed
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11:41
huge public misinformation
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公眾對於移民有好大嘅誤解
11:43
and misunderstanding
about the nature of immigration.
about the nature of immigration.
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11:47
For example, in these attitudes
in the United Kingdom,
in the United Kingdom,
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例如，英國公眾相信
11:50
the public believed that levels of asylum
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難民佔移民嘅比例比實際高
11:53
were a greater proportion
of immigration than they were,
of immigration than they were,
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11:56
but they also believed
the levels of educational migration
the levels of educational migration
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但佢哋同時相信
受教育嘅移民嘅比例遠低於實際
12:00
were far lower as a proportion
of overall migration
of overall migration
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12:03
than they actually are.
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12:05
So we have to address this misinformation,
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我哋要重視呢個觀感同現實嘅落差
12:07
the gap between perception and reality
on key aspects of globalization.
on key aspects of globalization.
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呢個係全球化重要嘅方面
12:12
And that can't just be something
that's left to our schools,
that's left to our schools,
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但呢樣嘢唔可以剩係由學校做
12:15
although that's important
to begin at an early age.
to begin at an early age.
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雖然由細個開始著手係重要嘅
12:17
It has to be about lifelong
civic participation
civic participation
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處理落差需要花成世時間做公民參與
12:20
and public engagement
that we all encourage as societies.
that we all encourage as societies.
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而呢樣正係社會所期望嘅
12:26
The second thing
that I think is an opportunity
that I think is an opportunity
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第二樣我覺得同時係機遇嘅係
12:28
is the idea to encourage more interaction
across diverse communities.
across diverse communities.
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我哋可以鼓勵呢個分裂嘅社群
有更多交流
有更多交流
12:33
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
12:37
One of the things that stands out
for me very strikingly,
for me very strikingly,
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當我睇返英國人對於移民態度嘅時候
12:40
looking at immigration attitudes
in the United Kingdom,
in the United Kingdom,
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其中一樣非常引起我注意
好諷刺地
12:43
is that ironically,
the regions of my country
the regions of my country
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最包融移民嘅地方有最多移民
12:46
that are the most tolerant of immigrants
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12:48
have the highest numbers of immigrants.
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12:51
So for instance, London and the Southeast
have the highest numbers of immigrants,
have the highest numbers of immigrants,
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例如倫敦同東南部有最多移民
12:55
and they are also by far
the most tolerant areas.
the most tolerant areas.
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而呢兩個地方都係最接納到移民
12:58
It's those areas of the country
that have the lowest levels of immigration
that have the lowest levels of immigration
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至於，有最少移民嘅地方
就最排斥同最唔能夠包融移民
13:02
that actually are the most exclusionary
and intolerant towards migrants.
and intolerant towards migrants.
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13:07
So we need to encourage exchange programs.
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所以我哋要鼓勵交流計劃嘅出現
13:09
We need to ensure that older generations
who maybe can't travel
who maybe can't travel
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我哋要令未必能夠旅行嘅
上一代可以上到網
13:13
get access to the Internet.
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13:15
We need to encourage,
even on a local and national level,
even on a local and national level,
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係本地或者國家層面
13:18
more movement, more participation,
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我哋都要鼓勵更多嘅流動、參與
13:20
more interaction
with people who we don't know
with people who we don't know
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鼓勵同唔識嘅人
同睇法不完全一樣嘅人
13:22
and whose views we might
not necessarily agree with.
not necessarily agree with.
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有更多嘅交流
13:26
The third thing that I think
is crucial, though,
is crucial, though,
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第三我覺得關鍵而又好基本嘅係
13:29
and this is really fundamental,
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13:31
is we have to ensure that everybody shares
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我哋要確保每個人
都可以享受到全球化嘅成果
13:33
in the benefits of globalization.
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13:36
This illustration from the Financial Times
post-Brexit is really striking.
post-Brexit is really striking.
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呢幅圖由金融時報做
係有關後脫歐時代，好震撼
13:41
It shows tragically that those people
who voted to leave the European Union
who voted to leave the European Union
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幅圖顯示想脫歐嘅人其實係
13:45
were those who actually
benefited the most materially
benefited the most materially
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最受惠於歐盟貿易嘅物質成果
13:47
from trade with the European Union.
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13:51
But the problem is
that those people in those areas
that those people in those areas
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但問題係
嗰啲喺想脫歐嘅地方嘅人
13:53
didn't perceive themselves
to be beneficiaries.
to be beneficiaries.
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唔覺得佢哋係受惠於歐盟嘅一群
13:56
They didn't believe that they
were actually getting access
were actually getting access
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佢哋唔信佢哋受惠緊
13:59
to material benefits of increased trade
and increased mobility around the world.
and increased mobility around the world.
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世界貿易同流動上升
所帶嚟嘅物質成果
14:05
I work on questions
predominantly to do with refugees,
predominantly to do with refugees,
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我主要鑽研難民問題
14:09
and one of the ideas
I spent a lot of my time preaching,
I spent a lot of my time preaching,
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而我其中一個針對發展中國家
花咗好多時間宣揚嘅諗法
14:12
mainly to developing countries
around the world,
around the world,
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14:15
is that in order to encourage
the integration of refugees,
the integration of refugees,
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係若然要鼓勵難民融合
14:18
we can't just benefit
the refugee populations,
the refugee populations,
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我哋唔可以剩係令難民受惠
14:21
we also have to address the concerns
of the host communities in local areas.
of the host communities in local areas.
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我哋亦要顧及本土社區嘅憂慮
14:27
But in looking at that,
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但睇返其中一項政策
14:28
one of the policy prescriptions
is that we have to provide
is that we have to provide
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我哋要喺有大量移民嘅地區
14:31
disproportionately better
education facilities, health facilities,
education facilities, health facilities,
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提供唔合比例地好嘅
14:35
access to social services
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教育設施、醫療設施、社會服務
14:37
in those regions of high immigration
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14:39
to address the concerns
of those local populations.
of those local populations.
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以回應當地居民嘅憂慮
14:42
But while we encourage that
around the developing world,
around the developing world,
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但當我哋喺發展中國家行呢套嘅同時
14:45
we don't take those lessons home
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我哋冇將呢套帶返嚟我哋自己國家
14:46
and incorporate them in our own societies.
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用喺我哋自己社會入面
14:50
Furthermore, if we're going
to really take seriously
to really take seriously
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再講，如果我哋真係要
14:53
the need to ensure people share
in the economic benefits,
in the economic benefits,
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確保人人都可以享受經濟成果
14:56
our businesses and corporations
need a model of globalization
need a model of globalization
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公司同企業就要一個全球化嘅示範
15:00
that recognizes that they, too,
have to take people with them.
have to take people with them.
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令佢哋明白佢哋都要對人有所承擔
15:05
The fourth and final idea
I want to put forward
I want to put forward
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第四個，亦係最後一個就係
15:08
is an idea that we need
more responsible politics.
more responsible politics.
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我哋需要更負責任嘅政治
15:12
There's very little
social science evidence
social science evidence
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3136
但我哋得好少社會科學嘅證據
比較啲人對全球化嘅態度
15:15
that compares attitudes on globalization.
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15:18
But from the surveys that do exist,
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但睇返現有嘅調查
我哋可以睇到
15:20
what we can see is there's huge variation
across different countries
across different countries
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國家之間
就算同一個國家喺唔同嘅時間
15:25
and time periods in those countries
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對於移民、人口流動
自由貿易嘅態度同承受能力
自由貿易嘅態度同承受能力
15:27
for attitudes and tolerance
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15:29
of questions like migration
and mobility on the one hand
and mobility on the one hand
277
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都有好大差別
15:32
and free trade on the other.
278
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15:34
But one hypothesis that I think emerges
from a cursory look at that data
from a cursory look at that data
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但從呢啲數據得出一個假設係
15:40
is the idea that polarized societies
are far less tolerant of globalization.
are far less tolerant of globalization.
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6096
兩極化社會更加接受唔到全球化
15:46
It's the societies
like Sweden in the past,
like Sweden in the past,
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2816
好似以前嘅瑞典同宜家嘅加拿大咁
15:49
like Canada today,
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15:50
where there is a centrist politics,
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都有中間路線嘅政治
15:52
where right and left work together,
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左翼同右翼合作
15:54
that we encourage supportive attitudes
towards globalization.
towards globalization.
285
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鼓勵支持全球化
15:58
And what we see around the world today
is a tragic polarization,
is a tragic polarization,
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3816
但我哋今時今日見到嘅兩極化係悲慘嘅
16:02
a failure to have dialogue
between the extremes in politics,
between the extremes in politics,
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政治極端兩邊嘅人冇辦法對話
16:05
and a gap in terms
of that liberal center ground
of that liberal center ground
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兩班人都失去咗中間自由嘅光譜
16:08
that can encourage communication
and a shared understanding.
and a shared understanding.
289
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3816
而呢個中間地帶
卻可以鼓勵兩邊溝通同體諒對方
16:12
We might not achieve that today,
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1616
我哋未必今日做到
16:13
but at the very least we have to call
upon our politicians and our media
upon our politicians and our media
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但至少我哋要呼籲政客同傳媒
16:17
to drop a language of fear
and be far more tolerant of one another.
and be far more tolerant of one another.
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3776
用詞唔好再係表達恐懼
而係更包容呢兩個極端
16:21
(Applause)
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2880
（掌聲）
16:29
These ideas are very tentative,
294
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呢啲諗法都係初步
16:32
and that's in part because this needs
to be an inclusive and shared project.
to be an inclusive and shared project.
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咁係因為解決方案需要多方意見
16:38
I am still British.
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我仲係英國人
16:40
I am still European.
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我仲係歐洲人
16:43
I am still a global citizen.
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我仲係世界公民
16:47
For those of us who believe
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相信我哋身份並唔係互相排斥嘅我哋
16:49
that our identities
are not mutually exclusive,
are not mutually exclusive,
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16:53
we have to all work together
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我哋要走埋一齊
16:56
to ensure that globalization
takes everyone with us
takes everyone with us
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確保全球化唔會抌低我哋任何一個
17:00
and doesn't leave people behind.
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17:02
Only then will we truly reconcile
democracy and globalization.
democracy and globalization.
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只有嗰陣
我哋先真正將民主同全球化調和
17:07
Thank you.
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多謝
17:09
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Alexander Betts - Social scientistAlexander Betts explores ways societies might empower refugees rather than pushing them to the margins.
Why you should listen
In media and in public debate, refugees are routinely portrayed as a burden. Professor Alexander Betts argues that refugees, who represent a wide spectrum of professional backgrounds, are in fact an untapped resource that could benefit nations willing to welcome them into their economies.
Betts is the director of the Refugee Studies Centre at the University of Oxford, where he spearheads research on refugee and other forced migrant populations. His book, Survival Migration, explores the predicaments of people who are fleeing disaster yet fall outside legal definitions of refugee status.
Alexander Betts | Speaker | TED.com