TED Salon Brightline Initiative
Matt Goldman: The search for "aha!" moments
麥特戈曼: 尋找「啊哈」的時刻
Filmed:
Readability: 4.1
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1988 年，麥特戈曼和幾個朋友創立了藍人樂團，是個外百老匯戲劇，因為它的幽默、藍色身體油漆，以及夠狂的特技而造成轟動。該表演的前提條件是要能創造出「啊哈時刻」——驚人、學習、熱情洋溢的時刻——更加經常且有意圖去做，而非令其隨機偶然發生。現在，戈曼在把從藍人樂團學到的東西用到教育上，創建了藍學校，該校平衡了學術精通、創意思考、以及自我和社會智慧。戈曼說：「我們需要為創新的新點子培養出安全且有益的條件，讓它們也能演化、茁壯。」
Matt Goldman - Entrepreneur
Matt Goldman is a co-founder of the international theatrical sensation Blue Man Group and the NYC-based Blue School. Full bio
Matt Goldman is a co-founder of the international theatrical sensation Blue Man Group and the NYC-based Blue School. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
So it's 1969, New York City,
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時間是 1969 年，在紐約市，
00:18
third grade music class,
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三年級的音樂課，
00:22
and our teacher brings us into a room
with nothing but a piano and chairs.
with nothing but a piano and chairs.
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我們的老師把我們帶到一間房間中，
房間裡只有一台鋼琴和一些椅子。
00:28
And one by one, he calls us up,
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他叫我們，一次叫一個，
00:31
and he plays middle C,
and he asks us to sing it.
and he asks us to sing it.
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他彈奏中央 Ｃ，要我們唱出來。
00:34
(Singing)
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（唱歌）
00:37
And you're either instructed
to go to the right of the room
to go to the right of the room
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接著你會被指示要去右邊的房間，
00:40
or the left side of the room.
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或是左邊的房間。
00:41
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
00:45
And when all 35 kids are done,
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所有三十五個孩子都做完之後，
00:48
the left side of the room,
which I was a part of,
which I was a part of,
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我在左邊的房間裡，
00:52
was told to stand up
and go back to home room.
and go back to home room.
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老師叫左邊房間的人站起來，
回到年級教室裡。
回到年級教室裡。
00:56
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
00:58
And none of us ever received
another music class again
another music class again
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我們這些人在小學中再也
沒有上過任何一堂音樂課。
沒有上過任何一堂音樂課。
01:04
in elementary school.
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01:06
An in club and an out club
was established,
was established,
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我們就分成了圈內和圈外兩派人馬，
01:10
and I didn't even know
what the gating test was in the moment.
what the gating test was in the moment.
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我當時甚至不知道
入派的測試是什麼。
入派的測試是什麼。
01:17
A few years later, English class ...
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幾年之後，英文課……
01:20
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
01:22
first paper of a new semester,
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新學期的第一份成績報告，
01:27
and I get the paper back,
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我拿回報告時，
01:29
and it's C+,
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上面的分數是 C+，
01:31
with the comment,
"Good as can be expected."
"Good as can be expected."
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附帶一條評論「跟預期的一樣好」。
01:35
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
01:38
Now, honestly, I didn't mind a C+.
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老實說，我不介意得到 C+。
01:41
I was just happy it wasn't a C- or a D.
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我很高興得到的不是 C- 或 D。
01:45
But the "good as can be
expected" comment ...
expected" comment ...
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但「跟預期的一樣好」這條評論……
01:48
even at that young age,
it didn't seem right.
it didn't seem right.
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即使我年輕那麼小，也覺得不太對。
01:52
It seemed somehow limiting.
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它似乎以某種方式成了限制。
01:57
Now, how many people here
have had an experience similar to that,
have had an experience similar to that,
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在座有誰曾經有過類似那樣的經驗，
02:02
either at school or the workplace?
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不論是在學校或工作場所？
02:07
We're not alone.
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我們並不孤單。
02:11
So I guess it might be ironic
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所以，我想，還蠻諷刺的，
02:14
that my life path
would lead me to a career
would lead me to a career
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我的人生道路，領我到的職涯竟是
02:18
of making music and writing
for Blue Man Group
for Blue Man Group
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為藍人樂團製作音樂和寫歌，
02:23
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
02:24
and starting a school.
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還成立了一間學校。
02:26
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
02:28
But school was torture for me.
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但學校對我而言是種折磨。
02:32
As someone who didn't have
a natural proclivity for academics,
a natural proclivity for academics,
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身為一個天生沒有學術傾向的人，
02:36
and my teachers never seemed
to understand me,
to understand me,
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且我的老師似乎從來沒有了解過我，
02:39
I didn't know how to navigate schools
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我在學校找不到方向，
02:41
and schools didn't know
what to do with me.
what to do with me.
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學校也不知道該拿我怎麼辦。
02:45
So I started to ask the question,
even back then,
even back then,
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所以，即使是那時，
我也開始問這個問題，
我也開始問這個問題，
02:49
if these environments
didn't know what to do
didn't know what to do
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如果這些環境不知道怎麼處理
02:52
with people who didn't fit
a standard mold,
a standard mold,
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不符合標準模子的人，
02:56
why weren't we reshaping the environments
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為什麼我們不改造環境，
03:00
to take advantage of people's strengths?
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來好好利用人們的長處？
03:05
What I've come to believe
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我漸漸開始相信，
03:08
is that we need to cultivate
safe and conducive conditions
safe and conducive conditions
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我們需要為創新的新點子
培養出安全且有益的條件，
培養出安全且有益的條件，
03:13
for new and innovative ideas
to evolve and thrive.
to evolve and thrive.
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讓它們能演化、茁壯。
03:19
We know that humans
are innately innovative,
are innately innovative,
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我們知道人類天生就有創新能力，
03:23
because if we weren't,
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因為如果沒有的話，
03:24
we'd all be using the same arrowheads
that we were using 10,000 years ago.
that we were using 10,000 years ago.
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我們應該還在使用
一萬年前用的箭頭。
一萬年前用的箭頭。
03:30
So one of the things
that I started to question is,
that I started to question is,
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所以，我開始執疑的其中一件事是，
03:33
are there ways to make innovation easier
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有沒有方式可以讓創新變得更容易，
03:38
and happen more frequently?
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且更常發生？
03:41
Is there a way to take those aha moments,
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有沒有方法可以利用
那些「啊哈」的時刻，
那些「啊哈」的時刻，
03:44
those breakthroughs that seem
to happen randomly and occasionally,
to happen randomly and occasionally,
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那些似乎是隨機偶然發生的突破，
03:50
and have them happen
intentionally and frequently?
intentionally and frequently?
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讓它們變成是刻意且經常發生的？
03:55
When we started Blue Man Group in 1988,
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當我們在 1988 年成立藍人樂團時，
03:58
we had never done
an off-Broadway show before.
an off-Broadway show before.
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我們從來沒有做過外百老匯的表演。
04:01
We'd actually done almost no theater.
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我們幾乎沒有做過劇場。
04:05
But we knew what we were passionate about,
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但我們知道我們的熱情在哪裡，
04:08
and it was a whole series of things
that we had never seen onstage before,
that we had never seen onstage before,
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那些全是我們從來沒有
在台上見過的東西，
在台上見過的東西，
04:12
things like art and pop culture
and technology and sociology
and technology and sociology
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像是藝術、流行文化、
科技、社會學、
科技、社會學、
04:16
and anthropology and percussion
and comedy and following your bliss.
and comedy and following your bliss.
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人類學、打擊樂、喜劇，
以及追隨你的天賜之福。
以及追隨你的天賜之福。
04:23
We established a rule
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我們建立了一條規則，
04:25
that nothing made it onstage
if we had seen it before,
if we had seen it before,
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若是我們以前看過的，就不能登台，
04:30
and we wanted to inspire
creativity and connectedness
creativity and connectedness
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我們想要激勵出我們自己
04:34
in ourselves and our audiences;
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和觀眾中的創意和連結性，
04:37
we wanted to do
a little bit of social good,
a little bit of social good,
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我們想要做一點社會公益，
04:39
and we wanted to have fun doing it.
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且我們想要愉快地做。
04:42
And in the office,
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在辦公室裡，
04:43
we wanted to create an environment
where people treated each other
where people treated each other
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我們想要創造一個環境，在那裡，
04:47
just a little bit better,
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大家能對彼此好一點點，
04:49
just a little bit more
respect and consideration
respect and consideration
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只要比外面的世界再多一點點
04:53
than in the outside world.
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尊重和體貼。
04:56
And we continued to iterate
and collaborate and find solutions
and collaborate and find solutions
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我們持續重覆、合作，
並找到解決方案，
並找到解決方案，
05:01
to create things that hadn't been seen.
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來創造出前所未見的新東西。
05:06
Over time, I've come to identify
the optimal conditions
the optimal conditions
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隨時間過去，我漸漸知道，
對於這類創意創新環境，
最理想條件就是
最理想條件就是
05:12
for these types of creative
and innovative environments
and innovative environments
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05:16
are clear intent, purpose and passion:
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擁有清楚的意圖、目的，和熱情：
05:20
this is working on something
bigger than ourselves.
bigger than ourselves.
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這是努力去做比我們
個人還要更大的東西。
個人還要更大的東西。
05:24
Personal integrity:
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個人廉正：
05:26
it's doing what we say we're going to do.
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就是去履行我們說我們要做的事。
05:29
It's being our authentic self
in all interactions.
in all interactions.
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就是在所有的互動中
都扮演最真實的自己。
都扮演最真實的自己。
05:32
Direct communication
and clear expectations,
and clear expectations,
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直接溝通和明確期望，
05:36
even when the subject matter is difficult.
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即使主題很困難也一樣。
05:39
Grit and perseverance:
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勇氣和堅持：
05:41
iteration, iteration, iteration.
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重覆、重覆、重覆。
05:46
Establish collaborative teams.
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建立團結合作的團隊。
05:49
Instill deep trust and mutual respect.
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讓他們有深刻的信任和相互的尊重。
05:52
Everyone on your team is in.
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團隊中的每個人就是在團隊中。
05:54
There is no out club.
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沒有分派系。
05:57
We rise as a team, we fall as a team,
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整個團隊一起成功，
整個團隊一起失敗，
整個團隊一起失敗，
06:00
and decisions are decisions
until they're not.
until they're not.
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決定就是決定，
直到它們不是決定為止。
直到它們不是決定為止。
06:03
Embrace multiple perspectives.
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擁抱多種觀點。
06:06
This means all voices matter,
all emotions matter.
all emotions matter.
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這意味著，所有的聲音、
所有的情緒都有重要性，
所有的情緒都有重要性，
06:10
Address disagreements head-on.
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有不同意見就當面直接說。
06:12
People should feel seen and heard.
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人們應該要感覺自己
有被看見、被聽見。
有被看見、被聽見。
06:15
Take risks and celebrate mistakes.
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冒風險，並讚揚錯誤。
06:18
A commitment to being
a learning organization,
a learning organization,
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承諾要成為一個學習組織，
06:21
always trying to spiral upwards
the innovation and learning curves.
the innovation and learning curves.
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永遠要試著讓創新
和學習曲線能向上爬升。
和學習曲線能向上爬升。
06:28
And speak in one voice.
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對外說法要一致。
06:30
This is perhaps the glue
that holds all these conditions together.
that holds all these conditions together.
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這可能就是把所有條件
黏在一起的膠水。
黏在一起的膠水。
06:35
The concept is that we speak
in the exact same manner
in the exact same manner
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概念是，當我們談論到
一個不在場的人時，
一個不在場的人時，
06:39
about someone who's not in the room
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談論他的方式是要當作他本人
06:42
as if they are in the room.
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就在現場一樣。
06:45
Now this seems basic,
but it's an aspirational practice
but it's an aspirational practice
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這似乎很基本，
但它是很有抱負的實做練習，
但它是很有抱負的實做練習，
06:50
that helps deal with difficult situations
in a more respectful way.
in a more respectful way.
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能協助用更帶著尊重的方式
來處理難搞的狀況。
來處理難搞的狀況。
06:57
Sewing this practice in can have
a profound effect on raising the bar,
a profound effect on raising the bar,
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把這種實做練習納入，
會深深影響到標準水平的提升、
會深深影響到標準水平的提升、
07:02
on mutual respect, trust,
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相互尊重、信任、
07:04
reducing gossip and politics
in the office and the classroom,
in the office and the classroom,
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減少辦公室及教室中的八卦和政治，
07:10
and thus reducing the noise that gets
in the way of the innovative process.
in the way of the innovative process.
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以及減少阻擋創新過程的噪音。
07:16
At Blue Man Group, iteration
was essential for our creative process.
was essential for our creative process.
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在藍人樂團，重覆對於
我們的創意過程是很重要的。
我們的創意過程是很重要的。
07:20
We were writing a piece
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我們在寫一件作品，
07:22
where we were trying to illustrate
the consumption / waste loop
the consumption / waste loop
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我們試圖要說明消費或浪費迴圈，
07:28
in a funny and creative
and surprising way for our audiences.
and surprising way for our audiences.
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且要用一種讓觀眾覺得有趣、
有創意、出乎意料的方式來呈現。
有創意、出乎意料的方式來呈現。
07:34
Now, if you have yourselves thought about
trying to do the same endeavor,
trying to do the same endeavor,
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如果你們自己有想過
要做同樣的努力，
要做同樣的努力，
07:41
I can save you a lot of time
right here and now.
right here and now.
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我此時此刻就能
幫你們省下許多時間。
幫你們省下許多時間。
07:44
I can definitively tell you
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我可以肯定告訴你們，
07:47
that oatmeal, Jell-O, Cream of Wheat,
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燕麥片、吉露果子凍、奶油麥片、
07:52
Gak, pudding, clay, tapioca,
Silly Putty and tomato paste
Silly Putty and tomato paste
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黏泥玩具、布丁、黏土、
木薯澱粉、橡皮泥，以及番茄糊，
木薯澱粉、橡皮泥，以及番茄糊，
07:58
do not slide through a tube
that's coiled up under your costumes
that's coiled up under your costumes
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都不會通過盤蜷在你的戲服底下
08:05
that's meant to come out
an orifice in your chest
an orifice in your chest
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且應該要從胸口的洞露出來的管子，
08:08
and spray towards the audience.
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然後灑向觀眾。
08:11
It won't happen.
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那不會發生。
08:13
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
08:15
After months of iteration,
we finally happened upon bananas.
we finally happened upon bananas.
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經過幾個月的重覆嘗試，
我們終於用香蕉辦到了。
我們終於用香蕉辦到了。
08:21
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
08:23
Who knew that bananas
would have the exact right properties
would have the exact right properties
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誰會知道香蕉的特性
完全適合用在這裡，
完全適合用在這裡，
08:27
to stay solid even when pushed
through a tube with forced air,
through a tube with forced air,
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即使被氣體加壓推過
管子之後還能保持固態，
管子之後還能保持固態，
08:32
yet slippery enough to have
the dramatic oozing effect
the dramatic oozing effect
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且還夠滑，能夠製造出
戲劇性的滲出效果，
戲劇性的滲出效果，
08:38
that we were looking for.
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這正是我們想要的。
08:40
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
08:41
This piece became a signature
of the Blue Man show.
of the Blue Man show.
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這件作品成為了
藍人樂團表演的招牌。
藍人樂團表演的招牌。
08:47
But we didn't throw out
all the rules of theater altogether.
all the rules of theater altogether.
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但我們並沒有把劇場的
所有規則都丟掉。
所有規則都丟掉。
08:51
We had set designs.
We had lighting designs.
We had lighting designs.
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我們有場景設計，有打光設計。
08:54
We had a stage manager calling the shows.
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我們有位舞台經理負責發號施令。
08:57
But I'm fairly sure
we were one of the very first shows
we were one of the very first shows
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但我很確定，我們的表演是最早
以帶著尊重的方式
和觀眾做連結的表演之一，
和觀眾做連結的表演之一，
09:02
that was connecting with our audience
in a respectful way,
in a respectful way,
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09:06
by hanging them upside down,
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我們還把觀眾頭上腳下吊著，
09:08
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
09:10
dipping them in paint,
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把他們浸到油漆中，
09:13
slamming them against a canvas,
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把他們猛推去撞帆布，
09:15
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
09:16
putting their heads
in 70 pounds of Jell-O,
in 70 pounds of Jell-O,
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把他們的頭放到七十磅的
吉露果子凍裡面，
吉露果子凍裡面，
09:20
and then making them
one of the heroes of the show.
one of the heroes of the show.
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然後把他們變成表演的英雄之一。
09:26
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
09:29
Besides that, we didn't reinvent
what didn't need to be reinvented.
what didn't need to be reinvented.
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此外，我們並沒有重新發明
不需要被重新發明的東西。
不需要被重新發明的東西。
09:34
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
09:41
Years later, we took all this learning
and we created a school --
and we created a school --
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幾年之後，我們用在這裡
所學的一切，建立了一所學校，
09:48
a school for our children
that we wish we had gone to,
that we wish we had gone to,
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為了我們原本希望能幫助的
那些孩子而建立。
那些孩子而建立。
09:54
a school where it was just as important
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在這間學校裡，
下課時在走廊發生的事情
09:58
what happened in the hallways
between classes
between classes
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和在課堂上發生的事情一樣重要；
10:01
as what happened in the classes;
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10:04
a place where you got music class
even when you couldn't sing middle C.
even when you couldn't sing middle C.
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在這間學校裡，即使你不會唱
中央 C 也可以上音樂課。
中央 C 也可以上音樂課。
10:12
At Blue School, teachers
and parents and students
and parents and students
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在藍學校，老師、父母，和學生
10:15
are equal collaborators at the table,
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圍桌而坐時是平等的合作者，
10:17
intentionally creating a safe space
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有意圖地創造一個安全的地方，
10:20
where they can develop
a lifelong, joyful passion for learning.
a lifelong, joyful passion for learning.
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在那裡，他們可以發展出對於
學習的愉悅熱情，且能持續一生。
10:25
Again, we didn't try to reinvent the wheel
when it didn't need to be reinvented.
when it didn't need to be reinvented.
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同樣的，沒必要的情況下，
我們沒有試著重新發明輪子。
我們沒有試著重新發明輪子。
10:29
We don't shy away from
the more traditional methods
the more traditional methods
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我們不會避開比較傳統的方法，
10:33
like direct instruction,
when it's the best way into a lesson.
when it's the best way into a lesson.
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像是直接指導，
如果那是學習課題的最佳方式的話。
10:37
But we balance it with an integrated
learning across all subjects approach,
learning across all subjects approach,
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但我們會用跨所有科目的
整合學習方法來平衡它，
整合學習方法來平衡它，
10:43
and balance is the key.
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平衡是關鍵。
10:46
In fact, Blue School was founded
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事實上，藍學校的建立基礎，
10:49
on a balance between academic mastery,
creative thinking,
creative thinking,
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正是在學術精通、創意思考，
以及自我與社會智能
以及自我與社會智能
10:55
and self and social intelligence.
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之間取得的平衝。
10:58
I realize that this might sound
like common sense,
like common sense,
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我知道這聽起來像是常識，
11:02
but in some circles, this is radical.
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但在一些圈子中，這是很激進的。
11:05
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
11:08
And these qualities have brought
a lot of attention to Blue School
a lot of attention to Blue School
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這些特質，讓真正在做創新的藍學校
11:12
as a truly innovative school.
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受到很多矚目。
11:17
Nearly 10 years in,
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大約十年前，
11:20
we announced the expansion
of the middle school.
of the middle school.
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我們宣佈了要擴展中學。
11:23
Our faculty asked our sixth graders
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我們的教職人員請我們的六年級生
11:26
to participate in the development
of middle school values.
of middle school values.
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參與中學價值的發展。
11:30
Their process began with a question:
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他們的過程始於一個問題：
11:33
What do you need from our community
to be happy and productive at school?
to be happy and productive at school?
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你需要我們的社群提供什麼給你，
才能讓你在學校快樂且有生產力？
才能讓你在學校快樂且有生產力？
11:40
Students moved through a six-week process
of individual work, collaborative work,
of individual work, collaborative work,
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學生歷經了六週的過程，
包括各別進行、協力進行、
包括各別進行、協力進行、
11:45
refinement, and consensus,
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修正，以及取得一致意見，
11:48
and the list they came up with
is really extraordinary.
is really extraordinary.
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他們最後整理出的清單非常了不起。
11:55
Be engaged and present with each other.
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和別人相處時要投入、心要在。
12:01
Respect and support
what others need in order to learn.
what others need in order to learn.
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尊重並支持他人的需求，
以從中學習。
以從中學習。
12:08
Be inclusive of our diversity --
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包容我們的多樣性，
12:12
the way we look, think and act.
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我們的外觀、想法、行為。
12:17
Cultivate the practice of self-awareness
and awareness of others.
and awareness of others.
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培養自我意識和他人意識的實做。
12:23
Honor and make time for fun and joy.
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尊重並騰出時間給樂趣和喜悅。
12:28
And challenge ourselves,
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以及挑戰我們自己，
12:30
practice being OK,
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練習犯錯是沒關係的，
12:32
making mistakes,
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12:34
and support each other through them.
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並支持彼此渡過這些狀況。
12:39
Remember, these kids were 11 years old
when they came up with this.
when they came up with this.
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切記，這些孩子
提出這些時才十一歲。
提出這些時才十一歲。
12:45
They articulated what took us
20 years to identify.
20 years to identify.
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他們明確表達出的這些價值，
我們花了二十年才發現。
我們花了二十年才發現。
12:53
One of the great by-products
of creating these vibrant communities
of creating these vibrant communities
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創造這些充滿生氣的社群，
其中一項很棒的副產品就是
其中一項很棒的副產品就是
13:00
is that we become attractors for people
who want to prioritize these values.
who want to prioritize these values.
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我們能夠吸引想要把這些價值
放在高優先順序的人。
放在高優先順序的人。
13:09
They want to prioritize it above things
like money and prestige and tradition.
like money and prestige and tradition.
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他們想把這些價值放在像是
金錢、名望，及傳統之前。
金錢、名望，及傳統之前。
13:16
We can all be on this road together,
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我們可以一同踏上這條路，
13:19
you at your own values
in your own companies,
in your own companies,
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你用你自己的價值，
在你自己的公司裡，
在你自己的公司裡，
13:23
in your own communities and families.
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在你自己的社區和家庭中。
13:26
For us, for me, it was about
prioritizing children's voices
prioritizing children's voices
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對我們，對我而言，
重點是重視孩子的聲音，
重點是重視孩子的聲音，
13:32
to give them the tools to help build
a harmonious and sustainable world.
a harmonious and sustainable world.
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給予他們工具，協助他們
建立一個和諧永續的世界。
建立一個和諧永續的世界。
13:39
I invite you to be on this exciting,
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我邀請各位一起加入這趟讓人興奮、
13:44
passionate, joyful journey together.
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熱情、有趣的旅程。
13:48
And together, good as can be expected
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當我們攜手，正如我們所期待的那樣，
13:52
is limitless when the expectation
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對美好的期望甚至可以是無止盡的，
透過改造我們的環境，
13:56
is that by reshaping our environments,
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14:00
we can change the world.
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我們就能夠改變世界。
14:04
Thank you.
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謝謝。
14:05
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Matt Goldman - EntrepreneurMatt Goldman is a co-founder of the international theatrical sensation Blue Man Group and the NYC-based Blue School.
Why you should listen
A few of Matt Goldman's titles include award-winning writer and performer, Grammy-nominated musician and composer, co-founder of the international theatrical sensation Blue Man Group, CEO of its parent organization Blue Man Productions, and co-founder of the NYC-based Blue School.
Goldman spent his boyhood in New York City, with parents who encouraged him to learn about a diverse range of interests. After earning an MBA degree, he began a career in software development, only to step away from the growing industry to follow where the Blue Man path would lead. His business knowledge assisted the friends early on, guiding them to make decisions in regard to the longevity and ownership of their creative work.
After nearly twenty years at the Blue Man helm with Chris Wink and Phil Stanton, Goldman made the decision to follow his passion for learning and education. The threesome teamed up with other artists and educators to form Blue School in New York City. With over 300 students enrolled in Pre-K through 8th grade, the school is designed to reimagine a more complete, balanced and exuberant approach to education. Goldman serves as Board Vice-Chair and co-Founder of the school.
Matt Goldman | Speaker | TED.com