TEDGlobal 2007
Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala: Aid versus trade
Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala：援助還是貿易
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尼日利亞前財政部長Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala在2007年TED全球會議落幕當天，就援助與貿易為期4天的的激烈討論做了總結，並且同與會者分享了她投入這一問題背後的親身經歷。
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:25
It's very, very difficult
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要在這樣一場會議的最後，
00:30
to speak at the end of a conference like this,
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總結這幾天的討論，實在太難太難。
00:33
because everyone has spoken. Everything has been said.
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因為大家都已暢所欲言，討論了所有的問題。
00:36
So I thought that what may be useful is to remind us
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所以我覺得回顧一下這幾天的討論，
00:40
of some of the things that have gone on here,
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也許再說說我的想法，
00:43
and then maybe offer some ideas which we can take away,
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讓你們能夠帶著這些想法離開，繼續前進，實現它們，
00:46
and take forward and work on.
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這應該對大家會有所幫助。
00:51
That's what I'd like to try and do.
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這也是我在這裡想要做的。
00:52
We came here saying we want to talk about "Africa: the Next Chapter."
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我們來參加這個會議，雖說想談的是“非洲：未來的篇章”，
00:57
But we are talking about "Africa: the Next Chapter"
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其實我們想要談“非洲：未來的篇章”
00:59
because we are looking at the old and the present chapter -- that we're looking at,
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是因為我們實際上審視的是非洲過去和現在的篇章，
01:05
and saying it's not such a good thing.
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我們對它們並不滿意。
01:08
The picture I showed you before, and this picture, of drought, death and disease
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我之前給你們看過的照片，還有現在這張關於乾旱，死亡和疾病的照片，
01:11
is what we usually see.
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這是我們常常看到的。
01:15
What we want to look at is "Africa: the Next Chapter,"
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我們想要看到的，是“非洲：未來的篇章”，
01:19
and that's this: a healthy, smiling, beautiful African.
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也就是這個：一個健康、歡笑、美麗的非洲人。
01:23
And I think it's worth remembering what we've heard
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我也認為我們應該記住從會議第一天起
01:26
through the conference right from the first day,
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不斷被提及的
01:28
where I heard that all the important statistics have been given --
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那些重要的數據，
01:31
about where we are now,
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它們顯示着我們已經取得的進展，
01:34
about how the continent is doing much better.
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告訴我們整個非洲的情況有了巨大的改善。
01:38
And the importance of that is that we have a platform to build on.
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其重要意義就在於我們因而有了一個平台供我們添磚加瓦。
01:41
So I'm not going to spend too much time --
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所以我不會花太多時間——
01:44
just to show you, refresh your memories
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只是再提醒你們一遍：
01:47
that we are here for "Africa: the Next Chapter" because for the first time
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我們今天齊聚一堂，探討“非洲：未來的篇章”，
01:49
there really is a platform to build on.
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是因為我們第一次有了一個真正的平台作為基礎。
01:53
We really do have it going right
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我們現在的方向是正確的：
01:56
that the continent is growing at rates that people had thought would not happen.
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非洲的發展速度是人們之前所不敢想象的。
02:00
After decades of 2 percent, we are now at 5 percent,
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增長速率從幾十年來的2%增長到現在的5%；
02:03
and it's going to -- projected -- 6 and 7 percent even.
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並且預計甚至將達到6%或7%。
02:07
And inflation has come down.
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而且通貨膨脹也在下降。
02:11
External debt -- something that I can tell you a long story about
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外債——關於外債，我有許多可說的，
02:13
because I personally worked on one of the biggest debts on the continent --
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因為我自己就曾致力於解決非洲最大的外債之一——
02:17
has come down dramatically.
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而非洲的外債已經顯著下降了。
02:20
You know, as you can see,
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可以看到，從約——
02:22
from almost 50 billion down to about 12 or 13 billion.
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從約500億下降到了現在的120，130億。
02:25
Now this is a huge achievement.
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接下來這個成就也不容小覷。
02:28
You know, we've built up reserves. Why is that important?
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正如你們所知，我們已經積累了一定的外匯儲備。其重要之處在於，
02:32
It's because it shows off our economies, shows off our currencies
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它是我們經濟和貨幣的指標，
02:35
and gives a platform on which people can plan and build, including businesses.
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也為我們提供了一個平台，以供下一步的計劃和建設，包括商業發展。
02:40
We've also seen some evidence that all this is making a difference
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我們也看到了一些跡象，表明這一切都為非洲帶來了新的變化，
02:44
because private investment flows have increased.
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因為湧入的個人投資也增加了。
02:47
I want to remind you again --
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我想再次提醒你們——
02:49
I know you saw these statistics before --
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雖然我知道你們已經看過這些數據了——
02:52
from almost 6 billion we are now at about 18 billion.
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個人投資從約60億上升到了現在的180億。
02:55
In 2005, remittances -- I just took one country, Nigeria
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2005年，僅尼日利亞一國的外來匯款
02:58
skyrocketing -- skyrocketing is too dramatic,
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就一飛沖天——“一飛沖天”可能太誇張了，
03:03
but increasing dramatically.
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但大幅上漲是肯定的。
03:06
And in many other countries this is happening.
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在許多其他國家，相同的情況正在發生。
03:08
Why is this important? Because it shows confidence.
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其重要意義就在於它體現了人們對非洲的信心。
03:10
People are now confident to bring --
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人們現在有信心回來投資——
03:13
if your people in the diaspora bring their money back,
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如果流散各地的人們願意將他們的資金帶回家鄉投資，
03:16
it shows other people that, look,
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這顯示，
03:18
there is emerging confidence in your country.
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人們開始對自己的國家更有信心了。
03:21
And instead of an outflow, you are now getting a net inflow.
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現在的情況已經從資金外流轉向淨流入。
03:24
Now, why is all this important, to have to go really fast?
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這一切的迅猛發展，重要性就在於
03:26
It's important that we build this platform,
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我們已經建立起了一個平台，
03:29
that we have the president, Kikwete, and others of our leaders who are saying,
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我們的總統基奎特以及其它領導人都已經下定決心
03:32
"Look, we must do something different."
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要做出改變。
03:34
Because we are confronted with a challenge.
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這是因為我們現在正面臨著一個挑戰：
03:36
62 percent of our population is below the age of 24.
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24歲以下的人口占了總人口的62%。
03:43
What does this mean?
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這意味著什麼？
03:46
This means that we have to focus on how our youth
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這意味著我們的工作重點應該是讓我們的青年
03:49
are going to be engaged in productive endeavor in their lives.
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能夠從事有產出回報的工作。
03:52
You have to focus on how to create jobs,
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我們應該致力於創造就業機會，
03:55
make sure they don't fall into disease, and that they get an education.
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保證他們的健康和教育。
03:57
But most of all that they are productively engaged in life,
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但最重要的是，我們要保證他們的生活是有回報的，
04:00
and that they are creating the kind of productive environment
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讓他們感到他們正在建設一個多產的國家，
04:03
in our countries that will make things happen.
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他們的努力都能得到回報。
04:07
And to support this, I just recently --
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為了這個目標，我自從退出政壇後
04:10
one of the things I've done since leaving government
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最近做的一件事就是
04:12
is to start an opinion research organization in Nigeria.
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在尼日利亞建立一個民意調查機構。
04:14
Most of our countries don't even have any opinion research.
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非洲大多數國家甚至根本不存在任何民意調查。
04:18
People don't have voice.
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我們聽不到人民的聲音，
04:20
There is no way you can know what people want.
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根本無從知道人民想要什麼。
04:22
One of the things we asked them recently was what's their top issue.
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最近我們調查的事項之一就是他們面臨的首要問題。
04:24
Like in every other country where this has been done,
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就像在所有進行過該項調查的國家一樣，
04:27
jobs is the top issue.
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就業是人們的首要問題。
04:31
I want to leave this up here and come back to it.
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過一會我還會回過頭來細說這個問題。
04:36
But before I get to this slide, I just wanted to run you through this.
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但在我講解這張幻燈片之前，我想對你們說，
04:40
And to say that for me, the next stage of building this platform
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我個人認為，為了能繼續進步，
04:43
that now enables us to move forward --
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這個平台建設的下一步
04:46
and we mustn't make light of it.
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我們不能忽視。
04:48
It was only 5, 6, 7 years ago
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僅僅在5，6或是7年前，
04:53
we couldn't even talk about the next chapter, because we were in the old chapter.
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我們根本談不上非洲未來的篇章，因為我們當時還困在過去的篇章中，
04:57
We were going nowhere.
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沒有一個明確的方向。
05:00
The economies were not growing.
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當時的經濟停滯不前，
05:02
We were having negative per capita growth.
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人均呈現負增長。
05:06
The microeconomic framework and foundation for moving forward
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我們缺乏足以支撐我們前進的
05:08
was not even there.
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微觀經濟框架和基礎。
05:12
So let's not forget that it's taken a lot to build this,
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所以不要忘記，我們今天的成就來之不易，
05:15
including all those things that we tried to do in Nigeria that Dele referred to.
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這其中包括Dele之前提到的我們在尼日利亞所做的一切：
05:17
Creating our own program to solve problems, like fighting corruption,
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我們創建了自己的項目來解決問題，比如打擊腐敗，
05:24
building institutions, stabilizing the micro economy.
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建設各個機構，穩定微觀經濟等等。
05:29
So now we have this platform we can build on.
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從而奠定了我們今天繼續進步的基礎。
05:33
And it brings us to the debate that has been going on here:
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這也使我們開始了這場辯論：
05:37
aid versus private sector, aid versus trade, etc.
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援助還是私有經濟，援助還是貿易，等等。
05:42
And someone stood up to say that one of the frustrating things
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有人提出，這場辯論最令人煩惱之處就在
05:47
is that it's been a simplistic debate.
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它過於簡化了。
05:49
And that's not what the debate should be about.
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我們的辯論不應該是關於這些問題的，
05:54
That's engaging in the wrong debate.
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這場辯論已經步入歧途。
05:58
The issue here is how do we get a partnership that involves government donors,
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真正的問題是，我們應該如何建立起一個夥伴關係，
06:00
the private sector and ordinary African people
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將政府援助，私營機構，以及
06:04
taking charge of their own lives?
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獨立自主的非洲人民聯繫在一起？
06:07
How do we combine all this?
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我們應如何將它們整合在一起？
06:12
To move our continent forward, to do the things that need doing
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這樣才能讓非洲繼續發展，讓我們做好應做的工作，
06:14
that I talked about -- getting young people employed.
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就像我說過的，保證年輕人的就業，
06:17
Getting the creative juices flowing on this continent,
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為非洲注入有創造力的新鮮血液，
06:20
much of what you have seen here.
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這其中的許多我們在這裡已經看到了。
06:23
So I'm afraid we've been engaging a little bit in the wrong debate.
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所以我不得不說，這場辯論的確有些步入歧途了。
06:26
We need to bring it back to say,
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我們必須回過頭來想想，
06:28
what is the combination of all these factors
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應該如何將這些因素聯繫在一起，
06:31
that is going to yield what we want? (Applause)
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才能得到我們想要的結果？（掌聲）
06:35
And I want to tell you something.
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我今天想要告訴你們的是，
06:40
For me, the issue about aid --
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我個人對於援助的看法。
06:43
I don't think that Africans need to now go all the way over to the other side
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我不認為非洲人現在需要走向另外一個極端，
06:47
and feel bad about aid.
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為接受援助感到慚愧。
06:50
Africa has been giving the other countries aid.
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非洲一直以來都在為其他國家提供援助。
06:53
Mo Ibrahim said at a debate we were at that
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Mo Ibrahim在一場辯論中說，
06:58
he dreams one day when Africa will be giving aid.
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他的夢想是有一天非洲能夠為他國提供援助。
07:00
And I said, "Mo, you're right. We have -- no, but we've already been doing it!
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我對他說，“Mo，你是對的，但事實上我們一直都在提供援助！
07:03
The U.K. and the U.S. could not have been built today without Africa's aid."
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沒有非洲的援助，英美兩國絕不可能發展到今天。”
07:09
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
07:17
It is all the resources that were taken from Africa,
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這些國家是靠著非洲的資源，
07:20
including human, that built these countries today!
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包括人力資源，才能發展至今！
07:24
So when they try to give back, we shouldn't be on the defensive.
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所以他們試著回報我們的時候，我們沒有必要抵觸。
07:30
The issue is not that.
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是否接受援助不是問題所在。
07:33
The issue is how are we using what has been given back.
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我們需要考慮的應該是如何使用援助資源——他們還給我們的資源。
07:37
How are we using it?
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我們應該如何利用援助？
07:40
Is it being directed effectively?
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我們是否有效地使用了援助？
07:45
I want to tell you a little story.
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讓我用一個小故事，
07:48
Why I don't mind if we get aid, but we use it well.
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來說明為什麼我並不反對接受援助，關鍵是我們應該善用援助。
07:57
From 1967 to '70, Nigeria fought a war -- the Nigeria-Biafra war.
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1967到1970年代時，尼日利亞經歷了一場戰爭——尼日利亞內戰。
08:00
And in the middle of that war, I was 14 years old.
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當時我14歲。
08:04
We spent much of our time with my mother cooking.
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大多數時候，我們和母親一起為部隊
08:06
For the army -- my father joined the army as a brigadier -- the Biafran army.
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做飯——我父親是比亞夫拉部隊的一名陸軍準將。
08:09
We were on the Biafran side.
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我們是支持比亞夫拉的。
08:11
And we were down to eating one meal a day, running from place to place,
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那時生活非常艱辛，每天只能吃一頓飯，而且顛沛流離。
08:14
but wherever we could help we did.
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但是每到一處，我們都盡我們所能做出一點貢獻。
08:18
At a certain point in time, in 1969, things were really bad.
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後來，1969年情勢急轉直下，
08:22
We were down to almost nothing in terms of a meal a day.
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我們每天僅有的一頓飯都吃不上什麼東西。
08:26
People, children were dying of kwashiorkor.
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大人，小孩接連死於惡性營養不良。
08:28
I'm sure some of you who are not so young
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我相信在座年紀較大的觀眾中肯定
08:30
will remember those pictures.
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有人記得當時的景況。
08:33
Well, I was in the middle of it.
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我親身經歷了這一切。
08:35
In the midst of all this, my mother fell ill with a stomach ailment for two or three days.
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當時我母親由於胃病倒下了，病情持續了兩三天，
08:39
We thought she was going to die.
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我們覺得她快不行了。
08:41
My father was not there.
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我父親也不在家裡，
08:43
He was in the army.
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在部隊裡。
08:44
So I was the oldest person in the house.
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所以我成了家裡最長的人。
08:48
My sister fell very ill with malaria.
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我妹妹染上了瘧疾，
08:53
She was three years old and I was 15.
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當時她只有3歲，而我是15歲。
08:58
And she had such a high fever. We tried everything.
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我妹妹高燒不退，不管我們嘗試了什麼方法，
09:00
It didn't look like it was going to work.
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看來都沒有用。
09:04
Until we heard that 10 kilometers away there was a doctor, who was
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後來我們聽說10公里以外有一位醫生，
09:08
looking at people and giving them meds.
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可以看病開藥。
09:10
Now I put my sister on my back -- burning --
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我馬上就背起周身滾燙的妹妹，
09:14
and I walked 10 kilometers with her strapped on my back.
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將她綁在我的背上，走10公里去找醫生。
09:17
It was really hot. I was very hungry.
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當時天氣非常熱，我餓得不行。
09:22
I was scared because I knew her life depended on my getting to this woman.
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而且我非常害怕，因為我妹妹能不能救活全靠我能不能找到這位女醫生。
09:25
We heard there was a woman doctor who was treating people.
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因為我們聽說有位女醫生能看病救人。
09:27
I walked 10 kilometers, putting one foot in front of the other.
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我一步一步地，走了10公里遠。
09:30
I got there and I saw huge crowds.
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當我到那兒的時候，看到的是一片擁擠的人群。
09:33
Almost a thousand people were there, trying to break down the door.
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大概有1000人吧，都在試著闖進門去。
09:36
She was doing this in a church. How was I going to get in?
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那個醫生在一個教堂裡看病。我怎麼才能進去呢？
09:42
I had to crawl in between the legs of these people
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我只能背上綁著妹妹，
09:45
with my sister strapped on my back,
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從人們的腿間爬過去。
09:49
find a way to a window.
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終於我爬到了一扇窗前。
09:50
And while they were trying to break down the door,
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當人們都試著闖進門去的時候，
09:53
I climbed in through the window, and jumped in.
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我爬進那扇窗戶，跳了進去。
09:57
This woman told me it was in the nick of time.
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那個醫生告訴我要是再來遲一點兒，我妹妹就沒救了。
10:00
By the time we jumped into that hall, she was barely moving.
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我跳進教堂的時候，她已經幾乎不能動了。
10:04
She gave a shot of her chloroquine -- what I learned was the chloroquine then --
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她給我妹妹打了一針氯奎——當時我所知道是氯奎——
10:08
gave her some -- it must have been a re-hydration --
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還開了一些——我想是體液補充劑——
10:11
and some other therapies, and put us in a corner.
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還有其他一些治療藥物，將我們安置在了角落裡。
10:18
In about two to three hours, she started to move.
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兩三個小時以後，她開始能動彈了。
10:23
And then they toweled her down because she started sweating,
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之後，他們為她擦身，因為她開始出汗了，
10:26
which was a good sign.
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這說明她開始好轉了。
10:31
And then my sister woke up.
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再後來我妹妹醒來了。
10:35
And about five or six hours later, she said we could go home.
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5，6個小時之後，她說我們能回家了。
10:38
I strapped her on my back.
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我將妹妹綁在背上，
10:41
I walked the 10 kilometers back and it was the shortest walk I ever had.
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走了10公里路回家，那是我人生中最短的一段路。
10:45
I was so happy -- (Applause) -- that my sister was alive!
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我太高興了（掌聲）——因為我妹妹還活著！
10:52
Today she's 41 years old, a mother of three,
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現在，她41歲了，是三個孩子的母親，
10:54
and she's a physician saving other lives.
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還是救死扶傷的醫生。
10:57
Why am I telling that? I'm telling you that because --
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我為什麼要告訴你們這個故事？那是因為：
10:59
when it is you or your person involved --
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如果換作是你自己——或者你最親的人——
11:05
you don't care where -- whether it's aid.
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你就不會在乎援助來自哪裡，或是什麼
11:10
You don't care what it is! (Applause)
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你根本不會在乎！（掌聲）
11:18
You just want the person to be alive!
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你只希望這個人能活下去！
11:23
And now let me become less sentimental, and say that saving lives --
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現在我要讓自己冷靜下來，告訴你們：拯救生命
11:26
which some of the aid we get does on this continent --
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正是我們得到的援助在非洲作出的貢獻之一——
11:29
when you save the life of anyone, a farmer, a teacher, a mother,
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當你拯救了一個人的生命，無論他是農民，老師還是一位母親，
11:32
they are contributing productively into the economy.
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他都為經濟產出做出了積極的貢獻。
11:34
And as an economist, we can also look at that side of the story.
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作為一個經濟學家，我們還可以從這個角度來看這件事。
11:43
These are people who are productive agents in the economy.
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我們救助的人都是非洲經濟體中的生產個體。
11:45
So if we save people from HIV/AIDS, if we save them from malaria,
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所以如果我們能將人們從艾滋病，或是瘧疾當中拯救出來，
11:49
it means they can form the base of production for our economy.
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這意味著他們都能成為我們經濟生產的基石。
11:52
And by the same token --
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同樣的——
11:56
as someone said yesterday -- if we don't and they die,
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就想昨天某位發言者說的——如果我們不能拯救他們，任由他們死去，
11:58
their children will become a burden on the economy.
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他們的孩子將成為經濟的負擔。
12:00
So even from an economic standpoint,
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因此，即便從經濟的角度出發，
12:04
if we leave the social and the humanitarian,
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不去考慮社會和人道的因素，
12:06
we need to save lives now.
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我們也需要從現在開始拯救生命。
12:09
So that's one of the reasons, from a personal experience, that I say
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從我個人的經歷出發，這也是我認為
12:12
let's channel these resources we get into something productive.
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我們應該將我們得到的資源轉化為生產力的原因之一。
12:18
However, I will also tell you that I'm one of those
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然而，我還要說，我和有些人一樣
12:22
who doesn't believe that this is the sole answer.
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都認為這並不是唯一的答案。
12:25
That's why I said the debate has to get more sophisticated.
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這也是為什麼這場辯論應該更加複雜。
12:28
You know, we have to use it well.
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我們應該善用這些援助。
12:34
What has happened in Europe?
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讓我們來看看歐洲的例子：
12:38
Do you all know that Spain -- part of the EU --
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你們知道嗎？西班牙——歐盟的一員——
12:42
got 10 billion dollars in aid from the rest of the EU?
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得到了其他成員國捐助的100億元？
12:46
Resources that were transferred to them --
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他們得到的資源——
12:50
and were the Spanish ashamed of this? No!
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西班牙人為此而感到恥辱嗎？不！
12:53
The EU transferred 10 billion. Where did they use it?
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歐盟為西班牙注入了100億。他們將這100億用在那裡了呢？
12:55
Have you been to southern Spain lately? There are roads everywhere.
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你們有人最近去過西班牙南部嗎？那裡到處都是路。
13:00
Infrastructure everywhere.
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到處都是基礎設施。
13:03
It is on the back of this that the whole of southern Spain
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正是在這個基礎之上，整個西班牙南部
13:05
has developed into a services economy.
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已經建設成了一個服務型經濟。
13:08
Did you know that Ireland got 3 billion dollars in aid?
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你們知道愛爾蘭得到了30億元的援助嗎？
13:10
Ireland is one of the fastest-growing economies in the European Union today.
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愛爾蘭現在是歐盟中增長最快的經濟體之一。
13:14
For which many people, even from other parts of the world,
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因此許多人，甚至是來自世界其他地方的人們
13:20
are going there to find jobs.
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都湧入愛爾蘭尋找工作機會。
13:22
What did they do with the 3 billion dollars in aid?
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他們是如何使用這30億援助資金的呢？
13:25
They used it to build an information superhighway,
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他們利用援助建立了信息超級高速公路；
13:28
gain infrastructure that
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建立起了所需的基礎設施，讓他們能夠——
13:32
enables them to participate in the
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能夠參與到
13:34
information technology revolution,
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信息技術革命當中；
13:36
and to create jobs in their economy.
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也為他們的經濟體創造了就業機會。
13:39
They didn't say, "No, you know, we're not going to take this."
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他們沒有說，不，我們不接受援助。
13:41
Today, the European Union is busy transferring aid.
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現在的歐盟正忙著調動援助。
13:44
My frustration is if they can build infrastructure in Spain --
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我的煩腦就在於：如果他們能在西班牙建立基礎設施——
13:46
which is roads, highways, other things that they can build --
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公路、高速公路和其它他們能建的東西——
13:50
I say then, why do they refuse to use the same aid
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那麼為什麼非洲拒絕使用同樣的援助
13:52
to build the same infrastructure in our countries? (Applause)
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來為我們國家建設同樣的基礎設施呢？（掌聲）
13:54
When we ask them and tell them what we need,
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我們什麼時候才能主動告訴他們我們需要什麼呢？
14:05
one of my worries today is that we have many foundations now.
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我現在的一個擔憂就是我們有太多基金會了。
14:07
Now we talk about the World Bank, IMF, and accountability, all that
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現在我們談的是世界銀行，國際貨幣基金組織，承諾的兌現，等等。
14:10
and the EU.
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還有歐盟。
14:12
We also have private citizens now who have a lot of money --
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我們還有一些公民個人擁有大筆資產。
14:17
some of them in this audience, with private foundations.
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你們當中的有些個人就有私人基金。
14:19
And one day, these foundations have so much money,
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總有一天，這些基金會掌握的大筆資金
14:22
they will overtake the official aid that is being given.
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將會超過現在我們得到的官方援助。
14:25
But I fear -- and I'm very grateful to all of them
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但我擔心——雖然我對於他們
14:30
for what they are trying to do on the continent --
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想在非洲做的事心懷感激——
14:32
but I'm also worried. I wake up with a gnawing in my belly
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但我也很擔心，以至於起床時腹痛難忍。
14:39
because I see a new set of aid entrepreneurs on the continent.
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因為我看到有一群新的援助企業家來到非洲，
14:42
And they're also going from country to country,
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他們同時也多次奔走各國，
14:46
and many times trying to find what to do.
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希望能找到援助方向。
14:51
But I'm not really sure that their assistance
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但是我卻不能肯定他們的援助
14:54
is also being channeled in the right way.
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是否被引導到了正確的方向。
14:58
And many of them are not really familiar with the continent.
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他們當中的許多人並不真正了解非洲，
15:00
They are just discovering.
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他們只是在試圖發現。
15:03
And many times I don't see Africans working with them.
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我也發現他們往往沒有同非洲人合作，
15:06
They are just going alone! (Applause)
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他們只是獨自行動！（掌聲）
15:09
And many times I get the impression that they are not really even interested
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而且，他們往往讓我感到他們並不真正
15:11
in hearing from Africans who might know.
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想要聆聽非洲人所知所想。
15:15
They want to visit us,
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他們只想造訪非洲，
15:18
see what's happening on the ground and make a decision.
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看看非洲的現況，然後就做出決定。
15:20
And now I'm maybe being harsh.
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我現在可能有些過於尖銳，
15:22
But I worry because this money is so important.
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但是正因為他們的資金如此重要，我才這麼擔憂。
15:25
Now, who are they accountable to?
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他們對誰負責？
15:30
Are we on their boards when they make decisions
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他們做出投資方向的決定時，
15:32
about where to channel money? Are we there?
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我們是他們的董事成員嗎？我們在場嗎？
15:35
Will we make the same mistake that we made before?
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我們會重蹈昔日覆轍嗎？
15:38
Have our presidents and our leaders -- everyone is talking about --
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我們的總統和領導——所有人都關注討論他們——
15:40
have they ever called these people together and said,
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他們有沒有召集這些企業家，對他們說，
15:42
"Look, your foundation and your foundation --
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“對於你們的基金會，
15:45
you have so much money, we are grateful.
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你們大筆的資金，我們心懷感激。
15:47
Let's sit down and really tell you where the money should be channeled
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讓我們坐下來，讓我告訴你們這筆錢究竟應該
15:50
and where this aid should go."
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怎麼用。”
15:53
Have we done that? The answer is no.
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我們有這麼做嗎？答案是否定的。
15:58
And each one is making their own individual effort.
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每個人都只是各自努力，
16:01
And then 10 years from now, billions will again have gone into Africa,
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而10年之後，仍然會有數十億的資金流入非洲，
16:04
and we would still have the same problems.
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我們仍然會面對同樣的問題。
16:08
This is what gives us the hopeless image.
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這讓我們感到絕望。
16:11
Our inability to take charge and say to all these people bringing their money,
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我們沒有能力掌握主導權，沒有能力對提供援助的人說：
16:15
"Sit down."
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“讓我們坐下來。”
16:17
And we don't do it because there are so many of us. We don't coordinate.
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我們沒有這麼做，因為我們有太多人了，無法協同合作。
16:19
We've not called the Bill Gates, and the Soros,
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我們沒能對比爾蓋茨和索羅斯，
16:25
and everybody else who is helping and say,
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還有其他所有幫助我們的人說：
16:30
"Sit down. Let's have a conference with you.
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“讓我們坐下來，一起開會探討。
16:33
As a continent, here are our priorities.
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作為一個大洲，我們有這些首要事項，
16:36
Here is where we want you to channel this money."
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而這些是我們希望你們投資的方面。”
16:40
Each one should not be an entrepreneur
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我們不應該讓每個人作為獨立的企業家，
16:42
going out and finding what is best.
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在非洲尋找最好的投資方向。
16:45
We're not trying to stop them at all! But to help them help us better.
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這樣做根本不是要阻止他們！根本不是！而是要幫他們更好地幫助我們。
16:49
And what is disappointing me is that we are not doing this.
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但我們並沒有這麼做，這讓我很失望。
16:52
Ten years from now we will have the same story,
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10年後我們的情況不會改變，
16:54
and we will be repeating the same things.
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我們會重複現在所做的事。
16:59
So our problem right now is, how can we leverage
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所以，我們現在的問題就在於，如何好好協調
17:04
all this good will that is coming towards our way?
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所有善意的援助，使其為我們所用？
17:10
How can we get government to combine properly
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如何讓政府與私人基金會，
17:14
with these private foundations, with the international organizations,
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國際組織，
17:17
and with our private sector.
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還有私營機構合理協作？
17:20
I firmly believe in that private sector thing too.
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我也堅定地相信私營機構能為我們帶來幫助。
17:24
But it cannot do it alone.
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但是他們自己是辦不到的。
17:26
So there might be a few ideas we could think of that could work.
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我們可以想出可行的辦法。
17:29
They said this is about proliferating and sharing ideas.
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他們說這場辯論是關於傳播和分享想法的。
17:32
So why don't we think of using some of this aid?
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那麼我們為什麼不想想如何使用部分援助呢？
17:37
Well, why don't we first say to those helping us out,
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我們為什麼不首先對幫助我們的人說：
17:40
"Don't be shy about infrastructure.
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不要吝於投資基礎建設！
17:42
That health that you're working on cannot be sustainable without infrastructure.
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你們現在致力建設的醫療健康如果沒有基礎建設是不可能長久的。
17:49
That education will work better
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如果我們有電力和鐵路等等，
17:54
if we've got electricity and railroads, and so on.
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我們的教育也能更上一層樓。
17:57
That agriculture will work better if there are railroads to get the goods to market.
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如果我們有鐵路能運送產品到市場上，我們的農業也能進步。
18:00
Don't be shy of it.
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所以不要吝於投資基礎建設。
18:05
Invest some of your resources in that, too."
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將你們的部分資源也投入基礎建設吧。
18:08
And then we can see that this is one combination
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這就是私人、國際、多邊資金、
18:13
of private, international, multilateral money,
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私營機構和非洲人協調整合，
18:17
private sector and the African that we can put together as a partnership,
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建立夥伴關係的例子。
18:20
so that aid can be a facilitator.
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使得援助真正能夠推動進步。
18:25
That is all aid can be.
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這正是援助全部的意義所在。
18:28
Aid cannot solve our problems, I'm firmly convinced about that.
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援助無法解決我們的問題，這一點我堅信不疑。
18:30
But it can be catalytic. And if we fail to use it as catalytic,
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但是它能成為催化劑。如果我們不能將援助轉化為進步的催化劑，
18:34
we would have failed.
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我們就會失敗。
18:39
One of the reasons why China is a bit popular with Africans now --
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現在中國比起非洲更吸引援助的原因之一
18:42
one of the reasons is not only just that, you know, these people are stupid
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並不是因為這些人都是傻子
18:47
and China is coming to take resources.
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任由中國拿走資源；
18:50
It's because there's a little more leverage in terms of the Chinese.
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而是因為中國人比我們更能引導。
18:56
If you tell them, "We need a road here,"
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如果你對他們說：“我們在這裡需要一條公路。”
19:01
they will help you build it.
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他們就會幫助你建造公路。
19:03
They don't shy away from infrastructure.
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不要吝於基礎建設。
19:04
In fact, the Chinese minister of finance said to me,
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事實上，我問過中國財政部長，
19:06
when I asked him what are we doing wrong in Nigeria.
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我們在尼日利亞的工作哪裡出了問題。
19:08
He said, "There are two things you need only.
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他告訴我，我們只需要兩樣東西：
19:11
Infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure and discipline.
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“基礎建設，基礎建設，基礎建設——以及規劃。
19:14
You are undisciplined." (Applause)
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你們現在毫無規劃。” （掌聲）
19:23
And I repeat it for the continent.
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為了非洲，我把他的話轉述給你們。
19:27
It's the same. We need infrastructure, infrastructure and discipline.
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道理是一樣的——我們需要基礎建設，基礎建設和調控原則。
19:28
So we can make a catalytic to help us provide some of that.
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我們可以用催化劑幫助我們做一些建設。
19:31
Now I realize -- I'm not saying -- health and education --
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現在我意識到——我並不是說——醫療和教育——
19:35
no, you can also provide that as well.
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你們也可以提供這兩方面的援助。
19:38
But I'm saying it's not either or.
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但是我要說，這並不是非此即彼的選擇。
19:41
Let's see how aid can be a facilitator in partnership.
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我們應該看到，合作能夠將援助轉化為推動力。
19:43
One idea.
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這是一個想法。
19:46
Second thing, for the private sector,
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我想說的第二件事是關於私營機構。
19:49
people are afraid to take risks on the continent.
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人們在非洲不敢冒險。
19:53
Why can't some of this aid be used as a kind of guarantee mechanisms,
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為什麼我們不能將援助的一部分化為保障機制，
19:55
to enable people to take risk?
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讓人們能夠試著冒險？
19:59
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
20:00
And finally, because they are both standing at my -- I'm out of time.
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最後，因為他們都站在——我沒有更多時間講下去了。
20:06
Am I out of time?
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時間到了對嗎？
20:09
OK, so let me not forget my punchline.
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那麼好，讓我畫完最後的點睛之筆。
20:12
One of the things I want everybody to collaborate on is
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我希望所有人都合作努力的方向之一
20:15
to support women, to create jobs. (Applause)
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就是幫助婦女，創造就業機會。（掌聲）
20:24
A lot has been said here about women, I don't need to repeat it.
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在這場辯論中人們已經反复討論過婦女問題了，我無需重申。
20:26
But there are people -- women -- creating jobs.
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但是有一些人——一些婦女——正在創造就業機會。
20:29
And we know, studies have shown
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研究顯示
20:31
that when you put resources in the hand of the woman --
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我們如果把資源交給婦女經營，
20:34
in fact, there's an econometric study,
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事實上有這麼一項計量經濟學的研究——
20:36
the World Bank Review, done in 2000, showing that
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是《世界銀行經濟評論》2000年所做的——研究顯示
20:39
transfers into the hands of women result
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若是將資源交給婦女經營，
20:42
in healthier children, more for the household, more for the economy and all that.
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我們的兒童會更健康，家庭和經濟等等都會進步更大。
20:47
So I'm saying that one of the takeaways from here --
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所以我想我們能從這場辯論中帶走的啟發之一——
20:50
I'm not saying the men are not important --
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我不是說男人就不重要，
20:51
obviously, if you leave the husbands out, what will they do?
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顯然的，如果你完全不考慮丈夫們，他們會怎麼做？
20:54
They'll come back home and get disgruntled,
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他們只能回家，心存不滿，
20:56
and it will result in difficulties we don't want.
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引發我們所不想看到的問題。
21:00
We don't want men beating their wives
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我們不想看到男人因為失業
21:02
because they don't have a job, and so on.
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而虐待妻子等等。
21:05
But at the margin, we also -- I want to push this,
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但是至少，我們也——我想要強調的是——
21:08
because the reason is the men automatically --
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因為男人自動——
21:12
they get -- not automatically, but they tend to get more support.
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不是自動，但是男人往往能得到更多幫助。
21:17
But I want you to realize that resources
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但是我希望你們能意識到，
21:20
in the hands of African women is a powerful tool.
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將資源交給非洲婦女將大有助益。
21:24
There are people creating jobs.
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有一些婦女正在創造就業機會——
21:28
Beatrice Gakuba has created 200 jobs from her flower business in Rwanda.
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Beatrice Gakuba在盧旺達的鮮花生意創造了200個就業機會。
21:30
We have Ibukun Awosika in Nigeria, with the chair company.
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Ibukun Awosika在尼日利亞的家具——椅子公司
21:35
She wants to expand.
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正在籌備擴大。
21:37
She needs another 20 million.
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她需要的2000萬投資，
21:39
She will create another 100, 200 more jobs.
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能夠再創造100，200個就業崗位。
21:43
So take away from here is how are you going to put together
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所以我們從這場辯論中要帶走的理念，就是要
21:47
the resources to put money in the hands of women in the middle
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整合我們得到的資源，
21:49
who are ready --
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交給有能力的婦女：
21:53
business people who want to expand and create more jobs.
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能夠擴展自己企業，創造更多職位的婦女。
21:56
And lastly, what are you going to do
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最後，我們要問問自己作為一個個人，
22:01
to be part of this partnership of aid, government, private sector
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如何參與到援助、政府、私營機構
22:06
and the African as an individual?
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和非洲人的合作當中？
22:09
Thank you. (Applause)
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謝謝。（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala - EconomistNgozi Okonjo-Iweala is a respected global economist.
Why you should listen
Okonjo-Iweala was the Finance Minister of Nigeria, Africa’s largest economy, from 2003 to 2006, and then briefly the country’s Foreign Affairs Minister, the first woman to hold either position. From 2011 to 2015 she was again named Minister of Finance and Coordinating Minister for the Economy of Nigeria. Between those terms, from 2007 to 2011, she was one of the managing director of the World Bank and a candidate to the organization’s presidency. She is now a senior advisor at financial advisory and asset management firm Lazard, and she chairs the Board of the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization. At the World Bank, she worked for change in Africa and assistance for low-income countries. As Finance Minister, she attacked corruption to make Nigeria more transparent and desirable for investment and jobs, an activism that attracted criticism from circles opposed to reform.
Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala | Speaker | TED.com