Jack Dorsey: How Twitter needs to change
ジャック・ドーシー: ツイッターが必要としている変革
Jack Dorsey is the CEO of Twitter, CEO & Chairman of Square, and a cofounder of both. Full bioChris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading. Full bioWhitney Pennington Rodgers - TED Current Affairs Curator
Whitney Pennington Rodgers is an award-winning journalist and media professional. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
What worries you right now?
どんな懸念がありますか?
about lots of issues on Twitter.
あなたはオープンに話してますが
the health of the conversation.
現在は 対話の健全性です
the public conversation,
公共の場での対話に寄与することですが
a number of attacks on it.
目にしています
misinformation.
誤った情報もありました
that we were not expecting
13年前に起業したときには
starting the company.
規模を増しています
is just our ability to address it
我々がそういった問題に対し
対処できるかということで
of how we're taking action,
of how we're taking action
クリアな理解と
for when we're wrong,
厳格な是正手続きが必要です
I'm really glad to hear
懸念されていると聞けて
a lot written about people
嫌がらせを受けており
and harassed on Twitter,
than women and women of color
黒人女性は特にそうです
a report a few months ago
数か月前の報告では
of active black female Twitter users
受け取るツイートの
one in 10 of their tweets
ハラスメントだということでした
for the community on Twitter,
健全性について—
"health for everyone,"
伺いたいものですが
to make Twitter a safe space
黒人女性のグループについて
for women of color and black women?
変えていくのですか?
something about the world,
何か学びたいのに
reporting abuse, receiving abuse,
誹謗中傷や嫌がらせを受け
is just the incentives
プラットフォームとサービスが
and the service provides.
動機そのものについてです
makes it super-easy to harass
他者に誹謗中傷をしたり
非常に容易なシステムになっています
of our system in the past
これまでのシステムはもっぱら
reporting harassment and abuse.
報告してくれるのに頼っていました
we decided that we were going to apply
もっと機械学習を使おう
a lot more deep learning to the problem,
適用しようと決め
around where abuse is happening,
もっと積極的な対策を講じようとしています
off the victim completely.
完全になくすのが目的です
are now proactively identified
機械学習アルゴリズムで
have to report them.
are still reviewed by humans,
人の目で確認しており
without a human actually reviewing it.
内容やアカウントの凍結はしていません
just a year ago.
進歩でしょう
had to actually report it,
皆 報告する必要があり
a lot of work for us
私たちにとっても大きな負担で
is making sure that we, as a company,
企業として
that we're trying to serve.
参画できるよう努めることです
that is successful
of perspective inside of our walls
日々実感している人々の
every single day.
内部に持たねばなりません
that's doing the work,
for what people are experiencing
共感を高め続ける必要があるし
提供する必要があります
a much better and easier approach
もっとうまく容易に対処できる方法を
that they're seeing.
is around technology,
多いですが
the incentives on the service:
動機についても考えています
when you first open it up?
何をしたいと思わせるのか?
it's incented a lot of mob behavior,
集団的嫌がらせも
at some of the fundamentals
深く理解する必要があります
to make the bigger shifts.
around technology, as I just described,
小さな変更は多くできますが
at the dynamics in the network itself,
力学を深く理解する必要があり
that you might be able to change
根本的に変えるために
fundamentally shift behavior?
思いますか?
with this concept of following an account,
「アカウントのフォロー」がありました
people actually come to Twitter.
理由ではないと思うんです
as an interest-based network.
ネットワークとして優れています
利用されているんです
to find and follow the related accounts
探してフォローして回るのに
is allow you to follow an interest,
関心をフォローしたり
コミュニティを
to show all of the accounts,
関係するアカウントや
all the hashtags
ハッシュタグなどを
particular topic and interest,
できるようになり
the perspective that you see.
大きく広がります
away from just an account bias
ネットワーク全体を移行するのは
so much content on there
豊富である理由のひとつは
of people around the world
contest with each other
させたからではありませんか?
of people who just read Twitter,
その変更は
everyone's out there saying,
皆 こう考えていますよね
a few more 'likes,' followers, retweets."
リツイートをもっと増やしたい!」と
is that the number one path to do that
分かったのは
are a dream on Twitter,
注目されます
process of driving outrage.
できてしまうわけです
we made in the early days was
how many people follow you.
というものがあります
should be big and bold,
表示することにしました
that's big and bold has importance,
重要なわけで
that you want to drive.
作り直すなら
the follower count as much.
そこまで強調しないと思います
the "like" count as much.
create "like" in the first place,
そもそも作りませんね
to be the most important thing,
back to the network
つながりません
that we thought of 13 years ago,
考えていませんでしたが
important right now.
how we display the follower count,
どう表示するか
that we want people to drive up?
追求させたいのか?
when you open Twitter,
I need to increase?"
思わせたいのか?
that's the case right now.
some of the tweets
in from the audience as well.
of the amazing things about Twitter
素晴らしい点のひとつですね
more questions, more points of view
知識や問いや視点を活用でき
are really healthy.
健全なものです
passed already quickly down here,
foreign meddling in the 2020 US election?"
外国の介入にどう対処するのか?」
that's an issue we're seeing
automated activity happening.
多く見られます
in fact, we have some work
調査結果が手元にありますが
at Zignal Labs,
to give us an example
malicious account activity,
自動化されたアカウントが
things like elections.
使われたりしています
from Zignal which they've shared with us
こちらの例は
they have from Twitter,
データを使っていますが
human accounts, each dot is an account.
白が人間のユーザーで
a few humans interacting with bots.
いくらか見られます
to the election in Israel
イスラエルの選挙に関連したもので
about Benny Gantz,
虚偽の情報が広められています
that was an election
最終的に選挙結果は
勝利しましたが
in some case influenced by this.
あるかもしれません
that happening on Twitter,
that you're doing, specifically,
like this spreading in this way,
人々に影響して
that could affect democracy?
何をしていますか?
the health of a conversation,
測ることはできるのか?
that you have indicators
in terms of are we healthy or not,
the flushness of your face,
同じように
the indicators of conversational health.
尺度を見いだせると思います
called Cortico at MIT
ラボと共同して
measure on the system.
測れるものだと思います
what we're calling shared attention.
of the conversation is attentive
どれほどが同じ話題に
of the conversation
同じ事実を
are truthful or not,
the same facts as we converse?
共有されているかどうかです
is receptive or civil
受容的かつ礼儀にかなったものか
is variety of perspective.
or echo chambers,
エコーチェンバー現象が起きているか
a variety of opinions
様々な意見が見られるかを測ります
is the understanding that,
それが大きいほどに
gets healthier and healthier.
ということです
if we can measure these online,
測れるかを試すことですが
around receptivity.
特に力を入れています
a toxicity model, on our system
システム上に構築していて
whether you are likely to walk away
Twitter 上での対話から
that you're having on Twitter
trend over time
どう変化するかを観察し
that these are balanced,
運用することです
you might decrease another.
他が減少することもあるでしょう
shared reality.
かもしれません
of the questions flooding in here.
言及しますね
疑問に思っているのは
of Nazis from Twitter?
どれだけ難しいのかということです
around violent extremist groups,
方針があります
and our terms of service
サービス規約のほとんどは
行動を対象にしています
harass someone,
嫌がらせ行為をしたり
関連するような―
といったことです
that we act on immediately.
即 対処します
where that term is used fairly loosely,
緩やかに運用されていて
any one mention of that word
そういう言葉を
should be removed from the platform.
除外することはしません
are based around, number one:
基づいているのは まず
with a violent extremist group?
関連するアカウントかどうか?
and the American Nazi Party and others.
すでにそうしています
imagery or conduct
関連付けられるような―
しているかどうかです
working on content moderation
何人くらい関わっていますか?
that we're, number one,
雇い入れるのではなく
hiring massive amounts of people,
思っているからです
that this is scalable,
いけませんし
that can actually scale this.
追いつきません
around proactive detection of abuse
人がそれを確認できるよう
scouring every single tweet
ツイートを精査させて
interesting ones to the top
トップに表示させることで
to whether we should take action or not,
除去するかどうかを
of people that are scalable,
人手では対応できないとのことですが
monitoring these accounts,
現在何人がしているんですか?
決める方法は何ですか?
してもらうこともありますし
with abuse and harassment.
対処してもらうこともあります
we have flexibility in our people
従事してもらえます
at what is most needed.
in Mexico, one coming up in India,
今度インドでもあります
the midterm election,
米国中間選挙もありましたね
with our resources.
柔軟にしたいと思っています
to our current terms of service
現在の利用規約にアクセスし
and harassment that you just received
嫌がらせ行為について
our terms of service to report it,
報告できるかと調べるとします
when you open that page
まず目に入るのは
property protection.
abuse, harassment
誹謗中傷や嫌がらせ行為など
that you might be experiencing.
over the company's history,
定かではないですが
the thing that people want
行動を望んでいるものよりも上に
and to actually act on.
what we believed was important.
世界に示してしまっています
so that they're human-readable
普通に読んで分かるものにします
understand themselves
実際に理解できるようにしたいのです
and when something is not.
the burden of work from the victims.
注力するということです
towards technology,
裁量を増やして
having to review that work.
減らすということです
that's super, super negative,
between the technology
人間が創造性を発揮できる場の
機械的な部分だけでなく
of finding and reporting them.
判断するという部分でも
about what you said.
掘り下げたいのですが
you are looking for ways
見直すための方法を
design of the system
とても良いことだと思います
behavior, and perhaps --
やめさせたり あるいは―
訴えるということでしょうか
to that "like" button be?
何になるのでしょう?
まず何よりも
is that I believe fundamentally
個人的な目標であり
公共の場での対話の重要性です
facing the world
人間の存在に関わる問題―
not any one particular nation-state,
世界全体が直面している問題には
利するものがあります
dynamics of Twitter,
and participate in it.
参加することができます
like climate change.
like the displacement in the work
労働力が代替されることに関する
like economic disparity.
to solve the problem alone.
Twitter can play a part.
役立てると思います
right now, when you go to it,
Twitter にアクセスしても
feeling like you learned something.
感じないということです
a very, very rich network,
豊かなネットワークを持っていて
that they learn from every single day.
and a lot of time to build up to that.
手間も時間もかかります
to those topics and those interests
トピックや関心事項にもっと早く
they're finding something that,
見付けられるようにしたい
they spend on Twitter --
Twitter 上で過ごすにせよ―
the time on Twitter,
最大化したいのではなく
そこから学べるものを
what they actually take away from it
that a lot of people want to know.
核心的な問いはそこなんです
to a huge extent,
あるのは分かる
is from advertising --
依存してもいる
user time, if need be,
ユーザーの利用時間を失ってでも
考えているのか?」と
less time on the service,
利用時間が減るというなら
that, like, you're coming to Twitter,
すぐに何かを学べて
that you learn from and that you push.
見つかるようにしたいと思いますし
長くいてもらう必要はありません
any more time to see more.
利用についてですが
daily active usage,
that doesn't necessarily mean things
人々が価値を見いだしている内容の
like a moth to the flame, every day.
ということもあるでしょう
something that pisses us off,
腹が立つ内容を目にして
もっと腹を立てるばかりです
dangerous term to be optimizing.
非常に危険なものだと思いますよ
finish the other metric,
まだお話ししていません
注目しています
healthy contribution back to the network,
自発的にされるよう促したいんです
is actually participating in conversation
4つの指標で定義されるような
I articulated earlier.
ということだと考えています
around one metric.
最適化はできません
常に見守る必要があります
a healthy contribution to the network
健全な体験を生み出すのは何であるかを
"Hey, I learned something from Twitter,
価値のある経験をした」と
with something valuable."
目指しています
I think to me, as this enigma.
謎めいていると思っていると思います
but I woke up the other night
先日夜にふと目覚めて
thinking about you and the situation,
こんな風にイメージしたんです
on this ship called the "Twittanic" --
客船「ツイッタニック」号に乗っていて―
listen to me, I want to hear."
君たちの話を聞きたい」と言う
"We're worried about the iceberg ahead."
気がかりなんだ」と告げると
that is a powerful point,
hasn't been built properly
うまく操舵できるように
this extraordinary calm,
saying, "Jack, turn the fucking wheel!"
舵を切ってくれ!」と叫んでいる—
民主主義であり
It's our world at stake.
役立ってもいます
of the other platforms,
小さくても
to set the agenda,
方向を示すのに使っています
important role in the world than to ...
ないと思います―
of listening, Jack, and hearing people,
耳を傾けていて素晴らしいけれど―
and move on this stuff --
物事を実行するという重要な役割を
moving substantially.
起こしています
a few dynamics in Twitter's history.
いくつか転換点がありました
in terms of our future,
かなり悲惨なものでした
were using the platform,
利用のされ方だけでなく
a bunch of the foundation,
基礎を修正して
for what we were doing,
the public conversation.
理念に向けました
with the fundamentals.
気づきました
to address what you're talking about,
表層的なことは色々できても
なければなりません
to what we started 13 years ago
しっかり目を向けて
and how the framework works
どう機能しているのか
どんどん変わっていく中で
and how people are using it.
何を必要としているのか
but quickness will not get the job done.
迅速さだけでは成し遂げられません
優先順位も重要ですし
the fundamentals of the network
柔軟に対応できる枠組みを
and being transparent about where are
かつ透明性を保って
that we've put in place.
誇りに思っていますし
of stupid stuff we were doing in the past.
止めねばなりませんでしたので
who, if given the chance,
機会さえあれば
on this change-making agenda you're on,
手助けしたいと思っているでしょう
and speaking so openly.
語ってくれてありがとう
and good luck with your mission.
うまくいくことを願っています
Thanks for having me.
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Jack Dorsey - Entrepreneur, programmerJack Dorsey is the CEO of Twitter, CEO & Chairman of Square, and a cofounder of both.
Why you should listen
More profile about the speaker
Jack Dorsey | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.
Why you should listen
Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.
Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.
Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.
Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.
This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.
He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.
In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.
Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com
Whitney Pennington Rodgers - TED Current Affairs Curator
Whitney Pennington Rodgers is an award-winning journalist and media professional.
Why you should listen
Prior to joining TED as current affairs curator, Whitney Pennington Rodgers produced for NBC's primetime news magazine Dateline NBC. She earned a duPont-Columbia award and a News & Documentary Emmy or her contributions to the Dateline NBC hour "The Cosby Accusers Speak" -- an extensive group interview with 27 of the women who accused entertainer Bill Cosby of sexual misconduct.
Pennington Rodgers has worked at NBC's in-house production company Peacock Productions, The Today Show, Nightly News, Rock Center with Brian Williams and New Jersey-centric public affairs shows Caucus: New Jersey and One-on-One with Steve Adubato. Prior to beginning her career in media, she had a short stint as a fourth-grade teacher through the Teach for America program.
Pennington Rodgers received her Bachelor's in journalism and media studies from Rutgers University. She completed her Master's of Journalism at the University of California at Berkeley, where she produced a documentary about recruitment of nonblack students at historically black colleges and universities.
Whitney Pennington Rodgers | Speaker | TED.com