Andrew Marantz: Inside the bizarre world of internet trolls and propagandists
安德鲁·马兰茨: 深入网络喷子和网络推手的奇异世界
Andrew Marantz writes narrative journalism about politics, the internet and the way we understand our world. Full bio
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people on the internet.
a lot of toxic garbage out there:
有大量的有害信息:
viral misinformation.
病毒式的错误信息。
who was making this stuff.
how they were spreading it.
it might be having on our society.
其中一些表情包的源头,
some of these memes back to their source,
or who were making them go viral.
病毒式传播的人那里,
我可以来看看你做什么吗?”
Can I come watch you do what you do?"
Brooklyn globalist Jew cuck
"Look, man, that's only 57 percent true."
这只有 57% 是真的。”
in the living room
社交媒体推手的客厅里。
in Southern California.
in his late 30s.
with a mug of coffee,
桌子上放着咖啡,
to Periscope and YouTube.
YouTube 上直播的iPad。
noxious talking points
the American conversation.
had a Muslim-sounding name.
有一个穆斯林名字。
this seemed like an opportunity,
这似乎是个机会,
almost all immigration,
worked up into a frenzy
was going to kill us all
images like this one.
and philanthropist,
of some conspiracists online,
a globalist bogeyman,
manipulating all of global affairs.
if this idea sounds familiar to you,
如果这个你听起来熟悉,
who control the world
anti-Semitic tropes in existence.
in New York who planted that bomb,
he understood all this.
He was actually a lawyer.
他其实是个律师。
do not drive conversation online.
不能推动网上的对话,
to bring us all together,
and tolerant and fair ...
have never been built
what's true or false,
what's prosocial and what's antisocial.
亲社会和什么反社会。
is measure engagement:
retweets, that kind of thing.
转发之类的事情。
to get engagement,
call "high-arousal emotion."
所说的那种“高唤醒情绪”。
mean sexual arousal,
obviously that works.
that gets people's hearts pumping.
或消极的,让人们心脏加速跳动的。
but dozens of them,
还有其他很多人,
成功做这些事情,
again and again successfully,
not because they were tech prodigies,
并非因为他们是科技神童,
unique political insights --
how social media worked,
社交媒体的运行方式,
to exploit it to their advantage.
this was a fringe phenomenon,
relegated to the internet.
between the internet and everything else.
on multiple TV stations
that one of the candidates
其中一名候选人
international manipulator George Soros,
乔治·索罗斯的操控,
next to stacks of cash.
the President of the United States,
manipulated by George Soros.
and marginal and, frankly, just ignorable,
坦白地说,简直是可以忽略不计,
that we hardly even notice it.
以至于我们几乎没有注意到它。
three years in this world.
no core beliefs at all.
perfectly rationally,
to make some money online
as outrageous as possible.
who were true ideologues.
的意识形态拥护者谈过。
was not traditional conservatism.
不是传统的保守主义。
to revoke female suffrage.
to go back to racial segregation.
with democracy altogether.
were not born believing these things.
就相信这些事情的。
in elementary school.
down some internet rabbit hole,
在他们掉进网络的泥潭前,
要么是社会主义者,
or they had been socialist
of a high IQ and a low EQ.
低情商的结合体。
in anonymous, online spaces
和在线空间感到更舒服,
to these message boards
would be magnified.
something just as a sick joke,
只是个恶心的笑话,
positive reinforcement for that joke,
而得到很多积极的支持,
这么多毫无意义的“互联网观点”,
"internet points," as they called it,
believing their own joke.
who grew up in New Jersey,
年轻姑娘聊过很多,
she moved to a new place
alienated and cut off
spaces on the internet
the most shocking, heinous things.
最令人发指的内容。
really off-putting
look away from it.
in these online spaces,
they made her feel validated.
some of these shocking memes
with some of her new internet friends
几个新网友一起坐车
in the name of the white race.
from Obama supporter
她就从奥巴马的支持者
out of the cult of white supremacy.
来摆脱白人至上的崇拜。
I spoke to were not.
that I had to find common ground
你是法西斯拥护者,我不是,
you're a fascist propagandist, I'm not,
all our differences will melt away."
我们所有的分歧都会消失。”
just look away from this stuff.
我们不能无视这些东西。
because only by understanding it
因为只有通过理解它,
ourselves against it.
I got a few nasty phone calls,
我接到过一些让人不快的电话,
female journalists get on this beat.
算是小巫见大巫了。
couldn't tell I was Jewish,
看不出我是犹太人,
kind of disappointing.
is being a professional anti-Semite.
一个专业的反犹份子。
is tipping you off at all?
为《纽约客》撰稿,
I write for "The New Yorker,"
is like if a Seinfeld episode
it would be nice
equals 12 percent chance of Nazi.
等于 12% 的纳粹几率。
being descriptive, not prescriptive.
而不是指令性的字眼。
of the internet like you and I
a little bit less toxic.
糟糕的建议。
two kinds of skepticism.
epistemological information here,
技术认识论信息中,
聪明和愚蠢的怀疑主义。
it sounds like skepticism,
to knee-jerk contrarianism.
下意识的逆向抬杠。
I'm skeptical about that."
I have spoken to in the last few years
我聊过的人中有多少年轻白人
they're all trying to indoctrinate me
他们都试图向我灌输相信
and white privilege,
man, I don't think so."
的白人青少年——
white teens of the world --
and a male privilege skeptic
质疑男性至上这种说法是错的,
you're being a jerk.
we all should be independent-minded,
我们都应该有独立的思想,
who will say, "Well, I'm pro-free speech,"
“我支持言论自由,”
that it's like they're settling a debate,
在终结一场辩论,
of any meaningful conversation.
happens after that point.
What does that mean?
and Richard Spencer
can harass anyone else online
the entire list of TED speakers this year.
round earth skeptic.
it's wonderful to be pro-free speech,
支持言论自由很好,
how to say again and again,
一次又一次地重复这句话,
of a more productive conversation.
to Reddit or YouTube or Facebook,
YouTube 或 Facebook,
what the algorithms showed me, right?
会向我展示啥,是吧?
across the United States?"
bizarre dynamic online,
这种奇怪的网络动态,
and human decency as pearl-clutching
和人类的尊严有些令人感到震惊,
whether intentionally or not,
is great for engagement.
everyone comments on it,
that has to happen here
to fix their platforms.
and you work at a social media company
你在社交媒体公司工作,
or, I don't know, own one,
for maximum emotional engagement
以实现最大化情感式的互动,
to be actively harming the world,
正在伤害着这个世界,
on them to do that
and hoping that they'll do that,
the rest of us can do, too.
or suggest some better pathways
或者找到一些更好的途径,
is really creative and thoughtful
有创意和有思想的东西,
你就可以分享,
you can share that thing,
with high arousal emotion.
this stuff does matter,
as powerful as they are,
behavioral cues from us.
it was really fashionable
was a revolutionary tool
irredeemable dumpster fire.
is just too vast and complex
these ways of thinking,
that the internet will inevitably save us
互联网将不可避免地拯救我们,
will inevitably destroy us,
互联网将不可避免地摧毁我们,
ourselves off the hook.
about our future.
at social media companies.
for some inevitable future to arrive
that the arc of the moral universe is long
by some mysterious force.
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Andrew Marantz - WriterAndrew Marantz writes narrative journalism about politics, the internet and the way we understand our world.
Why you should listen
Since 2016, Andrew Marantz has been at work on a book about the perils of virality, the myth of linear progress and the American far right. To report the book, he spent several years embedded with some of the conspiracists, white supremacists and nihilist trolls who have become experts at using social media to advance their corrosive agendas. He also watched as some of social media's earliest and most influential founders started to reckon with the forces they'd unleashed. The book, forthcoming in October from Viking Press, is called Antisocial: Online Extremists, Techno-Utopians, and the Hijacking of the American Conversation.
Marantz is also a contributor to Radiolab and The New Yorker Radio Hour, and has written for Harper's, Mother Jones, the New York Times and many other outlets. He holds an undergraduate degree in religion from Brown University and a master's degree in literary nonfiction from New York University. He lives in Brooklyn with his wife, who is a criminal-justice reformer; his two-year-old son, who is an excellent dancer; and an endless supply of peanut butter.
Andrew Marantz | Speaker | TED.com