ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Will Hurd - Politician
Congressman Will Hurd represents the 23rd District of Texas in the U.S. House of Representatives, serving constituents across 29 counties and two time zones from San Antonio to El Paso.

Why you should listen

A San Antonio native and Texas A&M Computer Science graduate, Congressman Will Hurd was an undercover officer in the CIA working on national and cybersecurity for nearly a decade. Since his election to Congress in 2014, he has focused on delivering bipartisan results for the 800,000 Texans he calls his "bosses" by working with anyone, regardless of politics and party. Texas Monthly and Politico Magazine have both dubbed him "the Future of the GOP."

More profile about the speaker
Will Hurd | Speaker | TED.com
Anne Milgram - Criminal justice reformer
Anne Milgram is committed to using data and analytics to fight crime.

Why you should listen

Anne Milgram is focused on reforming systems through smart data, analytics and technology. She is currently a Professor of Practice and Distinguished Scholar in Residence at New York University School of Law, where she is building a Criminal Justice Innovation Lab, dedicated to using data and technology to transform the American criminal justice system. She also teaches seminars on criminal justice policy and human trafficking. Milgram began her career as a criminal prosecutor, serving in state, local and federal prosecution offices.  She then became the Attorney General of the State of New Jersey, where she served as the Chief Law Enforcement Officer for the State and oversaw the Camden Police Department.

Though her work, Milgram seeks to bring the best of the modern world -- data, technology and analytics -- to bear in an effort to transform outdated systems and practices. Milgram is centered on creating a paradigm shift in how we think about innovation and reform in the criminal justice system and beyond.

Milgram graduated summa cum laude from Rutgers University and holds a Master of Philosophy in social and political theory from the University of Cambridge. She received her law degree from New York University School of Law.

More profile about the speaker
Anne Milgram | Speaker | TED.com
TED Salon: Border Stories

Will Hurd: A wall won't solve America's border problems

威尔·赫德 和 安妮·米尔格拉姆: 一道墙不能解决美国的边境问题

Filmed:
1,447,691 views

“从东海岸到西海岸建造一道 30 英尺高的混凝土结构建筑是解决边境安全问题最昂贵又无效的方法。”国会议员,来自德克萨斯州的共和党人威尔·赫德(Will Hurd)这样说。他的辖区横跨两个时区,与墨西哥共享 820 英里边境线。与前州检察长安妮·米尔格拉姆(Anne Milgram)在华盛顿的视频采访中,赫德讨论了美国政府的边境政策和有争议的扣留和儿童分离做法,并且勾画出走向更好的边境未来的步骤。 (2019 年 9 月 10 日录制于纽约 TED 世界剧院)
- Politician
Congressman Will Hurd represents the 23rd District of Texas in the U.S. House of Representatives, serving constituents across 29 counties and two time zones from San Antonio to El Paso. Full bio - Criminal justice reformer
Anne Milgram is committed to using data and analytics to fight crime. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
Anne安妮 Milgram米尔格拉姆: Congressman众议员,
I was about to introduce介绍 you
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安妮·米尔格拉姆:
议员先生,接下来我会介绍你,
然后说一些——
00:15
and say a little more --
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威尔·赫德:
嘿,安妮,你好吗?
00:16
Will Hurd赫德: Hey, Anne安妮. How are you?
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安妮:你好。
非常感谢今晚你的参与。
00:18
AM: Hi你好, how are you doing?
Thank you so much for joining加盟 us tonight今晚.
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00:21
We're so lucky幸运 to have you here with us.
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非常幸运今天能邀请到你。
00:24
I've already已经 explained解释
that you're actually其实 in Washington华盛顿
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我已经跟大家解释过了
因为工作原因,
你现在人在华盛顿。
00:26
because you're working加工.
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00:28
And I was about to tell folks乡亲
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而且我正要告诉大家
00:29
that you represent代表
the 23rdRD district of Texas德州.
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你代表的是德克萨斯州的 23 区。
00:33
But maybe you could tell us
a little bit about your district
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也许你可以跟我们
多介绍一下 23 区,
00:36
and describe描述 it for us.
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为我们描述一下吧。
00:39
WHWH: Sure, my district in Southwest西南 Texas德州
is 29 counties, two time zones,
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威尔:没问题,我代表的区在
德克萨斯西南部,包括 29 个县,
00:45
820 miles英里 of border边境
from Eagle Pass通过, Texas德州
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跨越 2 个时区,从伊格尔帕斯市
一直到埃尔帕索市,
00:49
all the way to El萨尔瓦多 Paso埃尔帕索.
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沿着边境线共 820 英里。
00:51
It takes 10 and a half hours小时 to drive驾驶
across横过 my district at 80 miles英里 an hour小时,
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大部分地方的限速
是 80 英里每小时,
00:55
which哪一个 is the speed速度 limit限制
in most of the district.
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穿越这个区需要 10 个半小时。
00:58
And I found发现 out a couple一对 of weekends周末 ago,
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然而我们几周前才发现,
01:00
it's not the speed速度 limit限制
in all the district.
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这并不是整个区的限速。
01:02
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
01:03
It's a 71-percent-百分 Latino拉丁美洲人 district,
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这里 71% 人口是拉丁裔,
01:07
and it's the district that
I've been representing代表
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这个区是我在国会的第三任期
01:10
for now my third第三 term术语 in Congress国会.
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所代表的区。
01:13
And when you think
about the issue问题 of the border边境,
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当你们想到边境问题时,
01:16
I have more border边境
than any other member会员 of Congress国会.
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我比其它国会议员
拥有更多的边境区域。
01:19
I spent花费 nine and a half years年份
as an undercover秘密 officer in the CIA中央情报局,
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我曾花了 9 年半时间以
CIA (中央情报局) 卧底的身份
01:23
chasing bad people all across横过 the country国家.
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在全国各处追捕坏人。
01:26
So when it comes to securing确保 our border边境,
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所以当要来保卫边境时,
01:28
it's something I know a little bit about.
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我对此方面了解得非常少。
01:31
AM: One of the things I learned学到了 recently最近
which哪一个 I hadn't有没有 known已知 before
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安妮:我最近才知道的一件事情是
你这个区的占地大小,我想
01:34
is that your district
is actually其实 the size尺寸, I think,
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01:37
of the state of Georgia格鲁吉亚?
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跟整个佐治亚州差不多?
01:40
WHWH: That's right.
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威尔:对的。
它比 26 个州的面积大,
基本上等于佐治亚州的大小。
01:41
It's larger than 26 states状态,
roughly大致 the size尺寸 of the state of Georgia格鲁吉亚.
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01:45
So it's pretty漂亮 big.
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所以它很大。
01:48
AM: So as an expert专家 in national国民 security安全
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安妮:你作为国家安全方面的专家
01:50
and as a member会员 of Congress国会,
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和国会议员之一,
01:52
you've been called upon
to think about issues问题
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曾经被要求去考虑
01:54
related有关 to immigration移民,
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移民相关的问题,
01:56
and in recent最近 years年份,
particularly尤其 about the border边境 wall.
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特别是最近几年的边境墙问题。
02:00
What is your reaction反应
to President主席 Trump's特朗普的 statement声明
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你对于特朗普总统的声明——
02:03
that we need a big, beautiful美丽 wall
that would stretch伸展 across横过 our border边境,
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我们需要在边境建造巨大、美观、
高度在 18 到 30 英尺的墙,
02:07
and at 18 to 30 feet high?
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有什么看法?
02:11
WHWH: I've been saying this since以来 I first
ran for Congress国会 back in 2009,
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威尔:其实我在 2009 年
竞选国会议员时就说过这件事,
02:15
this is not a new topic话题,
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这并不是一个新的议题,
02:16
that building建造 a 30-foot-high-foot高
concrete具体 structure结构体
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从东海岸到西海岸建造一个
02:19
from sea to shining闪亮的 sea
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30 英尺高的混凝土结构建筑
02:20
is the most expensive昂贵
and least最小 effective有效 way
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是一种对保卫边境安全最昂贵
02:23
to do border边境 security安全.
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又最无效的方法。
02:25
There are parts部分 of the border边境
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在部分边境,
02:27
where Border边境 Patrol's巡逻
response响应 time to a threat威胁
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边境巡逻队对威胁的响应时间
02:31
is measured测量 in hours小时 to days.
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以小时或天计算。
02:33
If your response响应 time
is measured测量 in hours小时 to days,
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如果响应时间如此之长,
02:37
then a wall is not a physical物理 barrier屏障.
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那么这个墙并不是物理上的屏障。
02:40
We should be having technology技术
along沿 the border边境,
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我们需要沿着边境应用一些技术,
02:42
we should have operation手术
control控制 of our border边境,
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需要有对边境的行动控制,
02:46
which哪一个 means手段 we know everything
that's going back and forth向前 across横过 it.
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意味着我们需要了解
从边境来回穿越的所有东西。
02:50
We can do a lot of that with technology技术.
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我们可以利用技术做很多事情,
02:52
We also need more folks乡亲
within our border边境 patrol巡逻.
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我们也需要边境巡逻队
引入更多人员。
02:55
But in addition加成 to doing all this,
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但是除了做这些,
02:57
one of the things we should be able能够 to do
is streamline精简 legal法律 immigration移民.
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我们还需要做的事情之一
是简化合法移民入境流程。
03:02
If you're going to be
a productive生产的 member会员 of our society社会,
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如果你会成为我们社会中
有生产力的一员,
03:05
let's get you here as quickly很快 as possible可能,
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我们会尽快让你移民到这里,
而且得通过合法途径。
03:07
but let's do it legally法律上.
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03:08
And if we're able能够 to streamline精简 that,
then you're going to see
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如果我们能够简化
合法移民入境流程,
你们会看见我们边境压力被缓解,
03:11
some of the pressures压力
relieved安心 along沿 our border边境
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03:14
and allow允许 men男人 and women妇女 in Border边境 Patrol巡逻
to focus焦点 on human人的 trafficking贩卖
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而且会让边境巡逻队更专注于
03:19
and drug-trafficking贩毒
organizations组织 as well.
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人口贩卖和贩毒组织。
03:22
AM: Congressman众议员,
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安妮: 议员先生,
03:25
there's also been a conversation会话
nationally国内 about using运用 emergency funds资金
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全国范围内还有一种讨论,
关于使用紧急资金
03:30
to build建立 the border边境 wall
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和来自美国军方的资金
03:31
and taking服用 those funds资金
from the United联合的 States状态 military军事.
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建造边境墙。
03:35
What has your position位置 been on that issue问题?
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你在这个问题上持何立场?
03:38
WHWH: I'm one of the few少数 Republicans共和党人 up here
that has opposed反对 that effort功夫.
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威尔:我是对此持反对意见的
少数共和党人之一。
03:43
We are just now rebuilding重建 our military军事,
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我们现在正在重建我们的军队,
03:46
and taking服用 funds资金 away from making制造 sure
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需要资金来确保
03:48
that our brothers兄弟 and sisters姐妹,
our wives妻子 and our husbands丈夫
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我们的兄弟姐妹,
我们的妻子或丈夫
03:52
have the training训练 and equipment设备 they need
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得到他们所需的培训和装备,
03:55
in order订购 to take care关心 of us
in far-flung遥远 places地方 --
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来在遥远的地方保护我们,
03:59
taking服用 money away from them
is not an efficient高效 use of our resources资源,
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从他们那拿走资金并不是
使用资源的有效方式,
04:03
especially特别 if it's going to build建立 a ...
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特别是当为了建造一个——
04:07
you know, I always say
it's a fourth-century第四世纪 solution
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我把这个形容为四世纪的解决方案,
04:10
to a 21st-centuryST-世纪 problem问题.
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不是二十一世纪的。
04:14
And the reality现实 is,
what we should be focusing调焦 on
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实际上,我们应该关注的是
04:17
is some of the other root causes原因
of this problem问题,
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这个问题的某些根本原因,
04:20
and many许多 of your speakers音箱 today今天
have talked about that.
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如今很多发言人都讲到了这个。
04:23
Some of those key root problems问题
are violence暴力, lack缺乏 of economic经济 opportunity机会
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一些关键的根本问题包括
暴力行为,就业机会的匮乏
04:29
and extreme极端 poverty贫穷,
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和极端的贫穷,
04:31
specifically特别, in the Northern北方 Triangle三角形:
El萨尔瓦多 Salvador萨尔瓦多, Guatemala危地马拉 and Honduras洪都拉斯.
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特别是在北三角形:
萨尔瓦多、危地马拉和洪都拉斯。
04:35
We should be working加工 --
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我们应该努力——
04:38
AM: I was going to ask
what you would recommend推荐
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安妮:我是打算问你,你会建议
04:40
United联合的 States状态 government政府 does
to address地址 the underlying底层,
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美国政府如何解决
04:44
what we call push factors因素, or root causes原因
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这三个中美洲国家的底层问题,
04:46
in those three countries国家
in Central中央 America美国?
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也就是我们所说的
推动因素或者根本原因的?
04:49
WHWH: One of the things I learned学到了
as an undercover秘密 officer in the CIA中央情报局
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威尔:在我做卧底的时候
我学到的东西之一就是
04:53
is be nice不错 with nice不错 guys
and tough强硬 with tough强硬 guys.
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对好人友好,
对野蛮人强硬。
04:55
And one of the principles原则
of being存在 nice不错 with nice不错 guys
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而对好人友好的原则之一是
04:58
is to strengthen加强 our alliances联盟.
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要加强我们的联盟。
05:01
We have a number of programs程式
currently目前 in these three countries国家
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现在在这三个国家
我们有很多项目,
05:05
that USAID你说 and the State Department
is doing to address地址 this violence暴力 issue问题.
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USAID(美国国际开发署)和国务院
正在致力于解决暴力问题。
05:11
And we know, in El萨尔瓦多 Salvador萨尔瓦多,
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正如我们所知,在萨尔瓦多,
05:12
one of the problems问题 was
that the police警察 were corrupt腐败.
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问题之一是警察腐败。
05:15
And so we've我们已经 worked工作 with the Salvadorians萨尔瓦多人
to purge清除 the police警察,
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所以我们正与萨尔瓦多人
一起清理警队,
05:20
rehire返聘 new folks乡亲,
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雇佣新人,
05:22
use community社区 policing治安 tactics策略.
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施行社区警务策略。
05:26
These are tactics策略 the men男人 and women妇女
in the United联合的 States状态 of America美国
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这些策略是美国的男男女女
05:31
and police警察 forces军队
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和警察部队
05:32
use every一切 single day.
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每天使用的。
05:34
And when we did this
in certain某些 communities社区,
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当我们在某些社区实行时,
猜猜发生了什么?
05:36
guess猜测 what happened发生?
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05:37
We saw a decrease减少 in the violence暴力
that was happening事件 in those communities社区.
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我们在这些社区看见了
暴力的减少。
05:41
And then we also saw
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而且之后我们也看见了
05:42
a decrease减少 in the number of people
that were leaving离开 those areas
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那些曾试图离开那块地方
05:45
to try to come
to the United联合的 States状态 illegally非法.
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并想非法进入美国的人数在减少。
05:48
So it's a fraction分数 of the cost成本
to solve解决 a problem问题 there,
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所以这是在最终
到达我们的边界之前,
05:52
before it ultimately最终 reaches到达 our border边境.
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解决问题的成本的一部分。
05:55
And one of the reasons原因
that you have violence暴力 and crime犯罪
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而有暴力和犯罪问题的原因之一
05:59
is political政治 corruption腐败
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就是警察腐败
06:01
and the lack缺乏 of central中央 governments政府
to protect保护 its citizens公民.
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和缺少中央政府对公民的保护。
06:05
And so this is something
we should be continuing继续 to work on.
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所以我们应该继续进行下去。
06:08
We shouldn't不能 be decreasing减少
the amount of money that we have
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我们不应该减少我们正在运送到
06:12
that we're sending发出 to these countries国家.
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这些国家的资金数量。
06:13
I actually其实 think
we should be increasing增加 it.
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实际上我认为
我们应该提高资金量。
06:15
I believe the first thing --
we should have doneDONE this months个月 ago --
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我相信,在几个月前
我们就应该做的第一件事
06:19
is select选择 a special特别 representative代表
for the Northern北方 Triangle三角形.
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就是为北三角区
选择一位特别的代表。
06:22
That's a senior前辈 diplomat外交官
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一位高级外交官,
06:24
that's going to work to make sure
we're using运用 all of our levers杠杆 of power功率
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可以确保我们使用所有级别的能力
06:29
to help these three countries国家,
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帮助这三个国家,
06:32
and then that we're doing it
in a coordinated协调 effort功夫.
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然后我们再结合全体的力量进行。
06:34
This is not just a problem问题
for the United联合的 States状态 and Mexico墨西哥,
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这不只是美国和墨西哥的问题,
06:37
this is a problem问题 for the entire整个
western西 hemisphere半球.
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这是整个西半球的问题。
06:40
So, where is the Organization组织
of American美国 States状态?
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所以,美洲国家组织在哪里?
06:42
Where is the International国际
Development发展 Bank银行?
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国际发展银行在哪里?
06:44
We should be having a collective集体 plan计划
to address地址 these root causes原因.
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我们应该有一个集体计划
来解决这些根本原因。
06:49
And when you talk about violence暴力,
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而当我们谈论暴力,
06:51
a lot of times, we talk
about these terrible可怕 gangs帮派 like MS-MS-13.
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很多时候,我们讨论的是
那些可怕的帮派,例如 MS-13.
06:56
But it's also violence暴力 like
women妇女 being存在 beaten殴打 by their husbands丈夫.
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但是这也包括像
妇女被丈夫家暴。
07:01
And they have nobody没有人 else其他 to go to,
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而且她们没有其它地方可去,
07:04
and they are unable无法 to deal合同
with this current当前 problem问题.
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她们无法解决当前的问题。
07:07
So these are the types类型 of issues问题
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所以对于这类问题,
07:10
that we should be increasing增加
our diplomacy外交,
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我们应该增强我们的外交,
07:13
increasing增加 our economic经济 development发展 aid援助.
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提高我们的经济发展援助。
07:16
AM: Please, I want to take you now
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安妮:我现在想带你
07:18
from thinking思维 about the root causes原因
in Central中央 America美国
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从思考中美洲的根本原因转移到
07:21
to thinking思维 about the separation分割
of children孩子 and families家庭
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思考在美国出现的
07:24
in the United联合的 States状态.
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儿童与家人分离的问题。
07:26
Starting开始 in April四月 2018,
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自 2018 年四月份起,
07:28
the Trump王牌 administration行政 began开始
a no-tolerance不容差 policy政策
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特朗普政府开始对在美国
07:32
for immigrants移民, people seeking
refugee难民 status状态, asylum避难所
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寻求难民身份庇护的移民人员
07:36
in the United联合的 States状态.
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发起了一个零容忍策略。
07:37
And that led to the separation分割
of 2,700 children孩子
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这个程序实行的第一年就导致了
07:41
in the first year
that that program程序 was run.
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2700 个儿童与家人的分离。
07:44
Now, I want to address地址 this with you,
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现在,我想和你谈谈这个,
07:46
and I want to separate分离 it up front面前
into two different不同 conversations对话.
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而且我想把这个分成
两个不同的对话。
07:51
One of the things
that the administration行政 did
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政府做的事情之一
07:53
was file文件 legal法律 court法庭 papers文件,
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是提交了合法法庭文件,
07:55
saying that one of the primary
purposes目的 of the separations分离
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阐述这些分离的主要目的之一
07:59
was to act法案 as a deterrent威慑
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是为了对来美国的人们
08:01
against反对 people coming未来
to the United联合的 States状态.
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起威慑作用。
08:05
And I want to talk for a moment时刻
about that from a moral道德 perspective透视
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我想花点时间
从道德的角度聊一下,
08:09
and to get your views意见.
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然后了解你的意见。
08:13
WHWH: We shouldn't不能 be doing it,
period. It's real真实 simple简单.
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威尔:我们不应该这样做,
就这样,非常简单。
08:17
And guess猜测 what, it wasn't a deterrent威慑.
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你们猜怎么着,那并不是威慑。
08:19
You only saw an increase增加
in the amount of illegal非法 immigration移民.
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非法移民数量反而在增多。
08:23
And when you're sitting坐在,
debating辩论 a strategy战略,
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当我们坐着讨论策略时,
08:26
if somebody comes up with the idea理念
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如果某个人提出
08:30
of snatching a child儿童
out of their mother's母亲 arms武器,
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把孩子从母亲怀抱中夺走的想法,
08:33
you need to go back to the drawing画画 board.
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你们应该回到最初重新开始。
08:36
This is not what the United联合的 States状态
of America美国 stands站立 for,
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这种想法不是美国所代表的,
08:40
this is not a Republican共和党人
or a Democrat民主党人 or independent独立 thing.
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也不是共和党、民主党
或独立党的东西。
08:43
This is a human人的 decency风化 thing.
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这事关人类尊严。
08:46
And so, using运用 that strategy战略,
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所以,实行那个策略,
08:49
it didn't achieve实现 the ultimate最终 purpose目的.
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并没有实现最终的目的。
08:51
And ultimately最终, the amount
of research研究 that is doneDONE
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而最终,许多研究证明,
孩子的拘禁,
08:56
and the impact碰撞 that
the detention拘留 of children孩子 has --
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尤其是超过 21 天的拘禁,
08:59
especially特别 if it's over 21 days --
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对于他们的成长和未来
09:01
has on their development发展 and their future未来
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所造成的影响
09:04
is disastrous惨重.
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是灾难性的。
09:05
So we shouldn't不能 be trying to detain扣留
children孩子 for any more than 21 days,
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所以我们不应该尝试
扣留孩子超过 21 天,
09:09
and we should be getting得到 children孩子,
if they're in our custody保管,
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我们不应该去扣留,
如果他们在我们的监护下,
09:12
we should be taking服用 care关心 of them humanely入道,
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我们应该人道的照顾他们,
09:14
and making制造 sure they're with people
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确保他们跟可以为他们
09:16
that can provide提供 them a safe安全
and loving爱心 environment环境.
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提供有安全环境的人呆在一起。
09:20
AM: I would challenge挑战 you
even on the 21-day-天 number,
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安妮:我甚至想质疑
你 21 天这个数字,
09:23
but for the purposes目的 of this conversation会话,
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但是为了这个谈话的目的,
09:26
I want to follow跟随 up
on something you just said,
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我想继续追问一些你刚刚说的,
就是扣留孩子既是错误的,
09:28
which哪一个 is both that it's wrong错误
to detain扣留 children孩子,
185
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2881
09:31
and that it's not effective有效.
186
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2143
也是无效的。
09:33
So the question, then, is why
does the administration行政 continue继续 to do it,
187
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所以问题是,
为什么政府继续这样做,
09:37
when we've我们已经 seen看到 900 additional额外 children孩子
separated分离 from their parents父母
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自 2018 年夏季我们看见了
又有 900 个孩子
09:41
since以来 the summer夏季 of 2018?
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2285
离开了他们的父母?
09:43
Why is this happening事件?
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为什么还在发生?
09:46
WHWH: Well, that's something
that you'd have to ultimately最终
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威尔:这是你最终需要
问政府的事。
09:49
ask the administration行政.
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这些问题我也一直在问。
09:50
These are questions问题 that I've been asking.
193
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2007
09:52
The Tornillo托尔尼略 facility设施 is in my district.
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托尼洛设施(扣留移民人员的场所)
就在我的辖区。
09:55
These are buildings房屋 that are not
designed设计 to hold保持 anybody任何人
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6907
这些建筑不是设计来容纳任何人
10:02
for multiple days,
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很多天的,
10:03
let alone单独 children孩子.
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更别说孩子了。
10:05
We should be making制造 sure
that if they are in our custody保管 --
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我们应该确保,
如果他们在我们的监护下——
10:09
a lot of times for
the uncompanied未伴奏 children孩子,
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对于无人陪伴的孩子,
有很多次
10:12
we don't have a ...
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我们没有 ……
10:14
we don't know of a patron顾客 or a family家庭
member会员 in the United联合的 States状态,
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我们不知道他们任何在美国的
资助人或者家庭成员,
10:19
and we should make sure
that they're in facilities设备
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而且我们需要确保
在那里的孩子
10:22
where they're able能够 to go to school学校
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能够去学校,
10:24
and have proper正确 food餐饮 and health健康 care关心.
204
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2865
有适当的食物和医疗保健。
10:26
And if we're able能够 to find
a sponsor赞助 or family家庭 member会员,
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如果我们能为他们找到
一个资助人或者家庭成员,
10:30
let's get them into that custody保管,
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我们会让他们等待
10:32
while they're waiting等候
for their immigration移民 court法庭 case案件.
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移民案子的同时对孩子进行监护。
10:36
That's the other issue问题 here.
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这里我们又有了另一个问题。
10:37
When you have a backlog积压 of cases --
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当我们有案件积压——
10:39
I think it's now 900,000 cases
that are backlogged积压 --
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我想现在有
90 万件案子积压——
10:44
we should be able能够 to do
an immigration移民 hearing听力
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我们应该可以在九个月内
10:46
within nine months个月.
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1257
进行一个移民听证。
10:47
I think most of the legal法律 community社区
thinks that is enough足够 time
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我认为大部分的法律界人士
觉得这段时间足够
10:51
to do something like this,
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1415
去做这样的事情,
10:52
so that we can facilitate促进
whether是否 someone有人, an individual个人,
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这样我们能够促成一个人
10:58
is able能够 to stay in the United联合的 States状态
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是留在美国
11:00
or they're going to have to be returned
back to their home country国家,
217
648465
3151
或者被遣返回自己的国家的决定,
而不需要在这个地方待五年。
11:03
rather than being存在 in this limbo打入冷宫
for five years年份.
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2318
11:05
AM: If we think about
the asylum避难所 system系统 today今天,
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安妮:如果我们考虑
现在的庇护系统,
11:08
where people are coming未来 and saying
that they have a credible可信的 threat威胁,
220
656546
3523
当人们来到这儿说
他们正面对可信的威胁,
11:12
that they will be persecuted迫害 back home,
221
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2016
也就是他们将被遣送回家,
11:14
and we think about the fact事实
that on average平均,
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2150
从事实上考虑,
11:16
it's about two years年份 for someone有人
to get an asylum避难所 hearing听力,
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3103
平均需要等待两年
才能进行庇护听证会,
11:19
that many许多 people are not represented代表
as they go through通过 that process处理,
224
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4355
很多人因为要经过那个流程
而无法出现,
11:23
it makes品牌 me think about something
225
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1587
这让我思考
11:25
that they say in the health健康 care关心
space空间 all the time,
226
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2432
人们一直说到的医疗保健领域,
11:27
which哪一个 is that every一切 system系统
is perfectly完美 designed设计
227
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2647
每一个系统都是为了
它所要得到的结果
11:30
to get the results结果 it gets得到.
228
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2177
而设计的。
11:32
And so as you think about this
229
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1436
所以当你考虑
11:34
and think about how we would
redesign重新设计 this system系统
230
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4175
我们要如何重新设计这个系统,
11:38
to not do what we're doing,
231
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1442
不再做现在我们做的事情,
11:39
which哪一个 is years年份 and years年份
of detention拘留 and separations分离 and hardship
232
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5173
就是年复一年的
扣押、分离、痛苦,
11:45
for people seeking --
233
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1201
当了人们寻找——
11:46
and again, asylum避难所 being存在 a lawful合法
United联合的 States状态 government政府 process处理 --
234
694299
4462
重申一下,需求庇护是
合法的美国政府流程——
11:50
for people seeking
to enter输入 our country国家 lawfully合法地.
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3500
为了人们寻找机会
合法进入我们的国家。
11:54
What should we do?
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1200
我们应该做什么?
11:56
WHWH: I tried试着 to increase增加
by four billion十亿 dollars美元
237
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2730
威尔:我试过将
美国卫生及公共服务部资金
11:59
the amount of resources资源 that HHSHHS has
238
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3203
提高 40 亿美元,
12:02
in order订购 to specifically特别 deal合同,
ultimately最终, with children孩子.
239
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3794
来特别为孩子服务。
12:06
I think we need more immigration移民 judges法官
in order订购 to process处理 these cases,
240
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5175
我认为我们需要更多的移民法官
来处理这些案子,
12:11
and I think we need to ensure确保
that folks乡亲 can get representation表示.
241
719498
5087
而且我认为我们需要确保
他们能够得到法律代表。
12:17
I've been able能够 to work with a number
of lawyers律师 up and down the border边境
242
725009
4518
我一直在和一些律师
在边境内外工作,
12:21
to make sure they are being存在 able能够
to get access访问 to the folks乡亲
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4429
确保他们可以接触到
12:26
that are having these problems问题.
244
734004
2707
那些有这些问题的人。
12:28
And so this is something
that we should be able能够 to design设计.
245
736735
3729
所以这些事情是
我们应该可以设计的。
12:32
And ultimately最终, when it comes to children孩子,
246
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2563
最终,当涉及孩子时,
12:35
we should be doing everything we can
when they're in our custody保管,
247
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3180
我们可以在监护他们的时候,
尽一切可能
12:38
in order订购 to take care关心 of them.
248
746279
2240
照顾他们。
12:41
AM: So I have two more questions问题 for you
249
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1928
安妮:在让你回去工作之前
我还有两个问题要问你。
12:42
before I'm going to let you
go back to work.
250
750982
2055
12:45
The first is about our focus焦点
in the United联合的 States状态
251
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4254
第一是关于移民问题,
12:49
on the questions问题 of immigration移民.
252
757339
1849
美国人的关注点。
12:51
Because if you look
at some of the statistics统计,
253
759212
2183
因为如果你看一些数据,
12:53
you see that of people
who are undocumented无证
254
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2984
会看见那些在美国的
12:56
in the United联合的 States状态,
255
764427
1309
无证移民,
12:57
the majority多数 of people
have overstayed逾期居留 on visas签证,
256
765760
3508
大部分都是签证过期逗留,
13:01
they haven't没有 come through通过 the border边境.
257
769292
1804
而不是从边境过来的。
13:03
If you look at the people
who try to enter输入 the country国家
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2759
如果你看那些
在恐怖分子监视名单上,
13:05
who are on the terrorist恐怖分子 watch list名单,
259
773903
1806
试图进入美国的人,
13:07
they enter输入 overwhelmingly压倒性
through通过 the airports机场
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2971
他们绝大部分是从机场进入的,
13:10
and not through通过 the border边境.
261
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1317
而不是从边境。
13:12
If we look at drugs毒品
coming未来 into the United联合的 States状态,
262
780069
2341
如果我们看看今天讨论的
一个主要部分,
13:14
which哪一个 has been a huge巨大 part部分
of this conversation会话,
263
782434
2278
进入美国的毒品,
13:16
the vast广大 majority多数 of those drugs毒品
come through通过 our ports港口
264
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3278
大部分的毒品从港口
13:20
and through通过 other points of entry条目,
265
788038
2182
和其它入口进入,
13:22
not through通过 backpacks背包
on people crossing路口 the border边境.
266
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3562
而不是由穿越边境的人
藏在背包里带来。
13:25
So the thing I always ask
267
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1262
所以我一直问的,
13:27
and I always worry担心 about with government政府,
268
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2126
也是我对于政府感到担忧的,
13:29
is that we focus焦点 so much on one thing,
269
797266
3357
是我们过多关注在一件事上。
13:32
and my question for you
is whether是否 we are focused重点
270
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3184
我的问题是,在全国范围内,
13:35
in this conversation会话 nationally国内
about the border边境,
271
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2303
我们时时刻刻
13:38
every一切 day and every一切 minute分钟 of every一切 day,
272
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2609
都在谈论边境问题,
13:40
whether是否 we're looking
completely全然 in the wrong错误 direction方向.
273
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3542
是不是我们完全选错了方向?
13:46
WHWH: I would agree同意 with your premise前提.
274
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威尔:我同意你的前提。
13:48
When you have --
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当你——
13:49
let's start开始 with the economic经济 benefits好处.
276
817711
1874
让我从经济利益说起。
13:51
When you have 3.6 percent百分 unemployment失业,
277
819609
2108
当你有 3.6% 的失业率,
13:53
what does that mean?
278
821741
1167
意味着什么?
13:54
That means手段 you need folks乡亲
in every一切 industry行业,
279
822932
2135
这意味着每个行业都需要人,
无论是农业还是人工智能。
13:57
whether是否 it's agriculture农业
or artificial人造 intelligence情报.
280
825091
2509
13:59
So why aren't we streamlining精简
legal法律 immigration移民?
281
827624
2969
所以为什么我们
不简化合法移民的流程?
14:02
We should be able能够
to make this market市场 based基于
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830617
2579
我们应该将让它顺应市场需求,
14:05
in order订购 to have folks乡亲 come in
283
833220
2306
鼓励人们来到这儿,
14:07
and be productive生产的 members会员 of our society社会.
284
835550
2762
成为我们社会里有生产力的一员。
14:10
When it comes to the drug药物 issue问题
you're talking about,
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838336
2955
当说到我们讨论的毒品问题,
14:13
yes, it's in our ports港口 of entry条目,
286
841315
1651
是的,毒品是从入境口岸来的,
14:14
but it's also coming未来 in to our shores海岸.
287
842990
1881
但是也有些来自我们的海岸。
14:16
Coast Guard守卫 is only able能够 to action行动
288
844895
2137
海岸警卫队只能
14:19
25 percent百分 of the known已知
intelligence情报 they have
289
847056
3640
对进入我们国家的毒品里
已知情报的 25%
14:22
on drugs毒品 coming未来 into our country国家.
290
850720
2365
进行针对性的行动。
14:25
The metric that we should
be measuring测量 [is]
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853109
3463
我们应该衡量的指标
14:28
are we seeing眼看 a decrease减少 of deaths死亡
from overdose过量 from drugs毒品 overseas海外,
292
856596
5034
是我们看见因为服用海外毒品
致死的人数的减少,
14:33
are we seeing眼看 a decrease减少
in illegal非法 immigration移民?
293
861654
3629
是我们看见非法移民的减少,
14:37
It's not how many许多 miles英里 of fencing击剑
that we have ultimately最终 built内置.
294
865307
5532
不是我们最终建了多长的篱笆。
14:42
And so we have benefited受益
295
870863
2064
而且在过去几十年
14:44
from the brain drain排水
of every一切 other country国家
296
872951
2015
我们已经从其它国家的人才流失
14:46
for the last couple一对 of decades几十年.
297
874990
1507
受益。
14:48
I want to see that continue继续,
298
876521
1389
我想看到这个趋势继续下去,
14:49
and I want to see that continue继续
with the hardworking用功 drain排水.
299
877934
2825
我也想看到辛苦工作的人
源源不断的来到美国。
14:52
And I can sell you this:
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880783
1174
而且我可以告诉你们:
14:53
at last Congress国会, Pete皮特 Aguilar阿吉拉尔,
a Democrat民主党人 from California加州, and I
301
881981
4691
在上一次国会会议上,来自加州的
民主党人皮特·阿吉拉尔,和我
14:58
had a piece of legislation立法
called the USA美国 Act法案:
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886696
2436
提出了一项立法,称为:
15:01
strong强大 border边境 security安全,
streamline精简 legal法律 immigration移民,
303
889156
3350
美国法——更强的边境安全,
简化合法移民流程,
15:04
fix固定 DACA达卡 -- 1.2 million百万 kids孩子 who have
only known已知 the United联合的 States状态 of America美国
304
892530
4730
修复《儿童入境暂缓计划》——
120万已经只把美国当作家的
15:09
as their home --
305
897284
1174
孩子们,
或者我应该说年轻的男孩和女孩,
15:10
these kids孩子, or I should say
young年轻 men男人 and women妇女,
306
898482
2245
15:12
they are already已经 Americans美国人,
307
900751
1301
他们已经是美国人,
15:14
let's not have them go through通过
any more uncertainty不确定
308
902076
3906
我们不要让他们再经历不确定性,
15:18
and make that ultimately最终 happen发生.
309
906006
2111
不要让那发生。
15:20
We had 245 people that were willing愿意
to sign标志 this bill法案 into law,
310
908141
4020
我们有 245 人已经愿意
将这个法案签署进法律中,
15:24
it wasn't allowed允许 to come forward前锋
under a Republican共和党人 speaker扬声器,
311
912185
3825
但这个无法在共和党
发言人的言辞中出现,
15:28
and also the current当前 Democratic民主的 speaker扬声器
hasn't有没有 brought this bill法案
312
916034
3802
而且现在民主党发言人也没有
15:31
through通过 in something
that we would be able能够 to pass通过.
313
919860
2674
将这个法案带入到可能通过的地方。
15:34
AM: So I want to close,
314
922558
1625
安妮: 最后,我想
15:36
and you are, perhaps也许, most famous著名 --
I don't know if that's fair公平 --
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924207
4860
你可能是最有名的——
不知道这么说是不是合适——
但是你和贝托·奥罗克一起
15:41
but you took a road trip
with Beto贝托 O'Rourke奥鲁克
316
929091
2299
15:43
from your district to Washington华盛顿, DCDC,
317
931414
2654
从你的辖区前往华盛顿特区,
15:46
and you've become成为 known已知
for reaching到达 across横过 the aisle走道
318
934092
2484
你已经因为跨越党派界线和
介入这些两党对话
15:48
and engaging in these
bipartisan两党 conversations对话.
319
936600
3222
变得被大众所熟知。
15:51
And one of the things
I've seen看到 you say repeatedly反复
320
939846
2914
而且我看见你
今天反复说的一件事是
15:54
is to talk about how we are all united联合的.
321
942784
3372
讨论我们如何团结在一起。
15:58
And I think, when we think
about the language语言 of immigration移民
322
946180
3001
我认为,当我们谈论移民语言,
16:01
and we start开始 hearing听力 words
about enemies敌人 and militarization军国主义化,
323
949205
4250
我们开始听见关于
敌人和军事化的言论,
16:05
I think the real真实 question is:
How do we convince说服 all Americans美国人
324
953479
4796
我认为真正的问题是:
我们如何让所有美国人信服
16:10
to understand理解 what you say
that more unites联信 us than divides分歧 us?
325
958299
4910
并明白你说的话更多是在
团结我们,而不是分裂?
16:16
WHWH: Crisscrossing交叉 a district like mine
that's truly 50-50 --
326
964274
2954
威尔:我的辖区
党派人数是一半一半——
一半的民主党,
一半的共和党,
16:19
50 percent百分 Democrat民主党人,
50 percent百分 Republican共和党人,
327
967252
2009
16:21
it's been very clear明确 to me
that way more unites联信 us than divides分歧 us.
328
969285
3902
这对我来说很清楚,
我们应该更团结,而不是分裂。
16:25
And if we focus焦点 on those things
that we agree同意 on,
329
973211
2318
而且如果关注我们同意的事情,
16:27
we'll all be better off.
330
975553
1341
我们都会做出更好的决策。
16:28
And I'm not going to get
a perfect完善 attendance award
331
976918
2905
我不会因为去教堂
16:31
for going to church教会,
332
979847
1191
而得到全勤奖,
16:33
but I do remember记得 when Jesus耶稣
was in the Second第二 Temple寺庙
333
981062
3210
但是我记得当耶稣在第二圣殿,
16:36
and the Pharisees法利 赛 人 asked him
what's the most important重要 commandment诫命,
334
984296
3130
法利赛人问他,
最重要的诫命是什么,
16:39
and he said to "Love thy你的 Lord God
with all your heart, mind心神 and soul灵魂."
335
987450
3365
他说:“用你的心,
思想和灵魂爱你的主。”
但是人们忘了他也说过:
“同样重要的是,
16:42
But people forget忘记 he also said,
"Equally一样 as important重要,
336
990839
2961
16:45
is to love thy你的 neighbor邻居 like thyself你自己."
337
993824
2102
要像爱自己一样爱身边的人。”
16:47
And if we remember记得 that
and realize实现 what it would mean,
338
995950
4169
如果我们记得
而且知道它是什么意思,
16:52
and what you would
have to be going through通过
339
1000143
2016
能想象你需要经历什么
16:54
to be living活的 in a situation情况
340
1002183
2325
才让你狠心决定把孩子
16:56
that you may可能 send发送 your child儿童
on a 3,000-mile-英里 perilous journey旅程,
341
1004532
4966
送上三千英里险恶旅程的境地,
17:01
because that's what you think
the only thing for their future未来,
342
1009522
3492
因为你认为这是他们未来的唯一出路,
17:05
the only thing that you can do
to make sure their future未来 is bright,
343
1013038
3150
是你唯一能确保他们前途光明的出路。
17:08
if we all remember记得 that situation情况,
344
1016212
2087
如果我们记得那种状况,
17:10
and think what we would do
in that situation情况,
345
1018323
3169
想象一下我们会在那种状况下做什么,
17:13
I think we'd星期三 also be better off.
346
1021516
1746
我想我们都会做出更好的决策。
17:15
AM: Thank you, Congressman众议员.
Thank you so much for joining加盟 us tonight今晚.
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1023905
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安妮: 谢谢你,议员先生。
非常感谢你今晚的参与。
(掌声)
17:19
(Applause掌声)
348
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2357
Translated by Nan Yang
Reviewed by Lipeng Chen

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ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Will Hurd - Politician
Congressman Will Hurd represents the 23rd District of Texas in the U.S. House of Representatives, serving constituents across 29 counties and two time zones from San Antonio to El Paso.

Why you should listen

A San Antonio native and Texas A&M Computer Science graduate, Congressman Will Hurd was an undercover officer in the CIA working on national and cybersecurity for nearly a decade. Since his election to Congress in 2014, he has focused on delivering bipartisan results for the 800,000 Texans he calls his "bosses" by working with anyone, regardless of politics and party. Texas Monthly and Politico Magazine have both dubbed him "the Future of the GOP."

More profile about the speaker
Will Hurd | Speaker | TED.com
Anne Milgram - Criminal justice reformer
Anne Milgram is committed to using data and analytics to fight crime.

Why you should listen

Anne Milgram is focused on reforming systems through smart data, analytics and technology. She is currently a Professor of Practice and Distinguished Scholar in Residence at New York University School of Law, where she is building a Criminal Justice Innovation Lab, dedicated to using data and technology to transform the American criminal justice system. She also teaches seminars on criminal justice policy and human trafficking. Milgram began her career as a criminal prosecutor, serving in state, local and federal prosecution offices.  She then became the Attorney General of the State of New Jersey, where she served as the Chief Law Enforcement Officer for the State and oversaw the Camden Police Department.

Though her work, Milgram seeks to bring the best of the modern world -- data, technology and analytics -- to bear in an effort to transform outdated systems and practices. Milgram is centered on creating a paradigm shift in how we think about innovation and reform in the criminal justice system and beyond.

Milgram graduated summa cum laude from Rutgers University and holds a Master of Philosophy in social and political theory from the University of Cambridge. She received her law degree from New York University School of Law.

More profile about the speaker
Anne Milgram | Speaker | TED.com

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