TEDWomen 2018
Paula Stone Williams and Jonathan Williams: The story of a parent's transition and a son's redemption
Filmed:
Readability: 3
1,557,257 views
Paula Stone Williams knew from a young age that she was transgender. But as she became a parent and prominent evangelical pastor, she feared that coming out would mean losing everything. In this moving, deeply personal talk, Paula and her son Jonathan Williams share what Paula's transition meant for their family -- and reflect on their path to redemption. As Jonathan says: "I cannot ask my father to be anything other than her true self."
Paula Stone Williams - Religious leader, counselor, advocate
Paula Stone Williams is a pastor, counselor, speaker, LGBTQ ambassador and gender equity advocate. Full bioJonathan Williams - Religious leader, storyteller
Jonathan Williams likes to tell stories and throw parties, so he started a church that allowed him to do both. Full bio
Paula Stone Williams is a pastor, counselor, speaker, LGBTQ ambassador and gender equity advocate. Full bioJonathan Williams - Religious leader, storyteller
Jonathan Williams likes to tell stories and throw parties, so he started a church that allowed him to do both. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
Paula Stone Williams: So, I was the CEO
of a large, religious nonprofit,
of a large, religious nonprofit,
0
1031
4823
00:17
spoke at some of the largest
churches in America,
churches in America,
1
5878
4344
00:22
was on television in 70 different markets,
2
10246
3454
00:25
but more than anything else,
3
13724
2740
00:28
I just wanted to be a good parent.
4
16488
2666
00:31
I told all three of my children,
5
19577
1707
00:33
"When the going gets tough,
6
21308
1929
00:35
you have to choose the road less traveled,
7
23261
3090
00:38
the narrow path."
8
26375
1294
00:39
I had no idea how difficult
that was going to become.
that was going to become.
9
27693
5072
00:45
I knew from the time I was three
or four years of age
or four years of age
10
33432
2477
00:47
that I was transgender.
11
35933
1584
00:50
I knew if I came out,
I would lose everything.
I would lose everything.
12
38395
3951
00:54
But the call toward authenticity is sacred
13
42370
3887
00:58
and for the greater good,
14
46281
1983
01:00
and it asks you to trust that the truth
not only sets you free,
not only sets you free,
15
48288
4437
01:04
it will set everyone free.
16
52749
2859
01:08
I decided to stake my life on it.
17
56018
2404
01:10
So I came out.
18
58891
1229
01:12
Turns out, if you spend most of your life
19
60692
2313
01:15
working in the conservative
religious world,
religious world,
20
63029
2262
01:17
coming out as transgender
is not all that great for your career.
is not all that great for your career.
21
65315
4098
01:21
(Laughter)
22
69437
1601
01:24
Who knew?
23
72080
1150
01:25
(Laughter)
24
73254
1511
01:28
Within seven days, I lost
every single one of my jobs.
every single one of my jobs.
25
76120
5006
01:33
My family was supportive but struggling.
26
81572
3073
01:36
Most of my friends
and coworkers had rejected me;
and coworkers had rejected me;
27
84669
2525
01:39
the rest were confused.
28
87218
1819
01:41
One friend said,
"You really messed with me."
"You really messed with me."
29
89473
3539
01:45
I said, "Yeah, well, get in line."
30
93503
2634
01:48
They said, "You were my only example
of an alpha male who was gentle."
of an alpha male who was gentle."
31
96161
5450
01:53
And I thought, "Oh. You're right."
32
101958
2614
01:57
I was an alpha male.
33
105108
2264
01:59
And I was gentle.
34
107396
1765
02:01
And if it was hard for him,
35
109715
2350
02:04
how much more difficult
was it for my own son?
was it for my own son?
36
112089
3559
02:09
Jonathan Williams: Estrangement
was not an option.
was not an option.
37
117130
2373
02:11
It was Father's Day and my girls
brought me craft beer
brought me craft beer
38
119527
3040
02:14
and a homemade jar of pickles,
which, in my estimation,
which, in my estimation,
39
122591
2608
02:17
is the perfect Father's Day gift.
40
125223
1804
02:19
(Laughter)
41
127051
1151
02:20
But the question remained:
42
128226
1839
02:22
Do I call my own father?
43
130089
1485
02:24
To call him, and I continue down
this spiral of denial,
this spiral of denial,
44
132134
2802
02:26
pretending that my dad was still --
45
134960
1725
02:28
well, my dad.
46
136709
2166
02:31
To not call was to acknowledge
that everything had changed.
that everything had changed.
47
139335
3947
02:35
It meant that I was in for years of pain
and mourning and sadness,
and mourning and sadness,
48
143306
5054
02:40
but ultimately, hope for reconciliation.
49
148384
2939
02:44
There's no playbook for when one's father
of 30 plus years decides to transition
of 30 plus years decides to transition
50
152465
3913
02:48
to the female gender.
51
156402
1645
02:50
But my dad did teach me one thing.
52
158071
2195
02:52
He said the road to redemption always
comes from choosing the narrow path.
comes from choosing the narrow path.
53
160290
3792
02:56
And so I decided not to call that day,
54
164906
1982
02:58
and a few months later, Paula flew
out and met me at a hotel in New York,
out and met me at a hotel in New York,
55
166912
3629
03:02
my wife and I.
56
170565
1377
03:04
I knocked on the door,
and this woman answered.
and this woman answered.
57
172315
2315
03:06
It definitely wasn't my dad.
58
174654
2106
03:09
"It's good to see you," she said.
59
177839
1643
03:11
It didn't sound like my dad, either.
60
179834
1821
03:14
We went to lunch, and the waiter
came to take our order.
came to take our order.
61
182376
2630
03:17
He said, "Let's start with the ladies,"
62
185030
1860
03:18
but there was only one lady
at the table and it was my wife,
at the table and it was my wife,
63
186890
2840
03:21
and -- oh my God, there are two
women at the table.
women at the table.
64
189730
2483
03:24
And my dad ordered something like lettuce,
65
192237
2006
03:26
and I was like, I have fries on my plate.
66
194267
1953
03:28
Did my dad like fries? I don't remember.
67
196244
2660
03:31
I think he liked them.
68
199367
2133
03:33
But she wasn't eating them.
69
201524
1547
03:37
Here's this woman who knew
everything about me,
everything about me,
70
205000
2923
03:39
and I knew nothing about her.
71
207947
1728
03:42
I don't even remember saying goodbye.
72
210830
2200
03:46
PSW: All I could think about that day
73
214721
1782
03:48
was that it was late
September in New York,
September in New York,
74
216527
2056
03:50
and I was wearing white jeans.
75
218607
2763
03:53
(Laughter)
76
221394
1104
03:54
You don't wear white
after Labor Day in New York.
after Labor Day in New York.
77
222522
3087
03:58
There was a knock at the door,
78
226675
1463
04:00
and all I could think about was,
here I stand in my wrong jeans.
here I stand in my wrong jeans.
79
228162
3789
04:03
And then I saw these big,
blue eyes I love so much,
blue eyes I love so much,
80
231975
2419
04:06
and they were staring
back at me in disbelief.
back at me in disbelief.
81
234418
2570
04:09
And I thought, "Oh, this is not
going to be easy."
going to be easy."
82
237012
4104
04:13
When one person in a family transitions,
83
241660
3044
04:16
the entire family transitions
whether they want to or not.
whether they want to or not.
84
244728
3708
04:21
Now, for those on the fringes it was easy.
85
249083
2231
04:23
The liberals said, "Oh, wonderful!
86
251702
1829
04:25
She's found her truth, how delightful."
87
253555
2279
04:27
And the conservatives said,
"That's messed up, I'm out of here."
"That's messed up, I'm out of here."
88
255858
3086
04:30
(Laughter)
89
258968
1126
04:32
But for my family, neither extreme
was going to work.
was going to work.
90
260118
3910
04:36
Their anger, their hurt,
91
264052
3051
04:39
their love and loyalty --
92
267127
2699
04:41
all of it had to be brought
on to the road of trials.
on to the road of trials.
93
269850
3999
04:47
JW: Was it all a lie?
94
275333
1220
04:48
Every game of catch in the front yard,
the Mets season tickets --
the Mets season tickets --
95
276913
3120
04:52
was that with my dad or was that with her?
96
280057
3323
04:56
I remember this one time,
97
284503
1579
04:58
my dad took me on a bike ride
through Heckscher Park
through Heckscher Park
98
286106
2460
05:00
to teach me about sex.
99
288590
1662
05:02
He explained the parts of the body
that I now know he wished weren't hers.
that I now know he wished weren't hers.
100
290276
4278
05:08
Had my father ever even existed?
101
296308
2249
05:11
Now, grief --
102
299508
1198
05:12
grief is without rules.
103
300730
1407
05:15
Grief borrows your car without asking,
104
303332
2008
05:17
wrecks it
105
305364
1156
05:18
and then doesn't apologize.
106
306544
1744
05:20
And I was a wreck.
107
308312
1316
05:22
This was heavy.
108
310018
1150
05:23
I retreated into myself.
109
311192
1202
05:24
I was angry.
110
312418
1256
05:25
I felt betrayed.
111
313698
2040
05:27
And I guess I should have known
112
315762
1477
05:29
by the fact that you encouraged
me to be a Mets fan
me to be a Mets fan
113
317263
2383
05:31
that you were preparing me
for life's really big disappointments.
for life's really big disappointments.
114
319670
3098
05:34
(Laughter)
115
322792
1050
05:35
That's true.
116
323866
1150
05:37
And yet, there were the games of catch,
117
325678
2078
05:39
and there were the season tickets
118
327780
1592
05:41
and bacon, egg and cheese
sandwiches every Saturday
sandwiches every Saturday
119
329396
2412
05:43
from the best bagel place on Long Island.
120
331832
1977
05:45
My father lived this life
he didn't want to live,
he didn't want to live,
121
333833
2300
05:48
but he lived it so
that I could have a dad.
that I could have a dad.
122
336157
3421
05:52
I stopped wondering
if my dad had ever existed.
if my dad had ever existed.
123
340545
2738
05:55
He had existed -- willfully,
consciously, intentionally --
consciously, intentionally --
124
343991
5102
06:01
each and every day of my growing up.
125
349117
2243
06:03
For that, I was thankful.
126
351993
1424
06:06
Paula's body was hers now
and her transformation was complete,
and her transformation was complete,
127
354506
3642
06:10
but my transformation was just beginning.
128
358172
2362
06:12
I had another trial, another journey,
another choice to heed my father's advice
another choice to heed my father's advice
129
360558
4136
06:16
and continue down that narrow path.
130
364718
2731
06:21
PSW: So most days
I believe there is a God.
I believe there is a God.
131
369088
3354
06:24
Tuesdays and Thursdays can be tough,
132
372466
2350
06:26
and any day that you're
on the New Jersey Turnpike.
on the New Jersey Turnpike.
133
374840
2581
06:29
I mean, really, you know?
134
377445
1303
06:30
(Laughter)
135
378772
971
06:31
It's hard to believe in God
when your soul is in the wrong body.
when your soul is in the wrong body.
136
379767
3643
06:35
Still, somehow I ended up in ministry.
137
383869
2787
06:38
When I lost all my jobs,
it was nothing personal.
it was nothing personal.
138
386680
2664
06:41
It's what religious tribes do.
139
389368
2580
06:43
They believe an enemy is necessary
for the tribe to survive,
for the tribe to survive,
140
391972
3386
06:47
so where no enemy exists,
141
395382
2024
06:49
they create one.
142
397430
1791
06:51
Right now, sexual minorities
are the enemy;
are the enemy;
143
399245
2277
06:53
my departure was swift and sure.
144
401546
2469
06:56
I was surprised when my son
left his job teaching in West Philadelphia
left his job teaching in West Philadelphia
145
404760
4566
07:01
to go into the ministry.
146
409350
1678
07:03
I did not see that one coming.
147
411052
2101
07:06
And now I wondered:
148
414145
1481
07:08
What would he do?
149
416226
1305
07:10
I didn't have to wait that long
to find an answer.
to find an answer.
150
418172
2823
07:13
Six months after that first visit,
151
421392
2757
07:16
he invited me back to New York.
152
424173
2360
07:19
JW: The designers of the Brooklyn Bridge,
153
427371
1953
07:21
they had their share of bad luck.
154
429348
1606
07:23
John Roebling, he died shortly after
the bridge's construction began.
the bridge's construction began.
155
431460
3430
07:26
His son Washington took over,
156
434914
1389
07:28
but he suffered
from decompression sickness.
from decompression sickness.
157
436327
2327
07:30
His wife Emily became the surrogate
executive engineer
executive engineer
158
438678
3002
07:33
who oversaw the bridge's completion.
159
441704
1968
07:36
Father and son,
160
444227
1473
07:37
John and Washington,
161
445724
1700
07:39
done in by their work.
162
447448
1697
07:41
It was this sunny day in May
163
449672
1522
07:43
and my father and I sat in the shadow
of that Brooklyn Bridge.
of that Brooklyn Bridge.
164
451218
3016
07:47
Would our lives follow the Roeblings' --
165
455016
1961
07:49
father and son, done in by our work?
166
457001
2948
07:52
My father thought
that her friends in church
that her friends in church
167
460751
2431
07:55
would carry her through her transition,
168
463206
2173
07:57
and they did not.
169
465403
1634
07:59
They ditched her and they clung to me.
170
467497
1840
08:01
I was the pastor
of a new church in Brooklyn.
of a new church in Brooklyn.
171
469361
2144
08:03
This wonderful group
of forward-thinking people,
of forward-thinking people,
172
471529
2598
08:06
and yet, we were financially tied
to really conservative churches.
to really conservative churches.
173
474151
3484
08:10
To hold space for Paula meant jeopardizing
our own church's livelihood.
our own church's livelihood.
174
478016
4642
08:15
I sort of straddled the line
between these warring worlds.
between these warring worlds.
175
483081
3880
08:18
So I said to my dad,
176
486985
1188
08:20
"Dad, I still live and work
in your old world.
in your old world.
177
488197
2459
08:22
Is it possible that you might extend
an olive branch for my sake?"
an olive branch for my sake?"
178
490680
3620
08:27
And her response was impassioned.
179
495325
3201
08:32
You said to me, "Do you have
any idea what it feels like
any idea what it feels like
180
500010
3856
08:35
to finally show yourself
to your true friends
to your true friends
181
503890
2184
08:38
and have them completely reject you?
182
506098
2484
08:40
To ask you to live a lie?
183
508606
1485
08:42
Do you know what that feels like?"
184
510115
1961
08:45
And I didn't know what that felt like.
185
513105
2318
08:48
But I knew I had a decision to make.
186
516721
2015
08:51
It was the decision to continue
down that narrow path through nights,
down that narrow path through nights,
187
519354
3715
08:55
but for the first time,
188
523093
1956
08:57
I caught a glimpse of light.
189
525073
1651
08:59
I cannot ask my father to be anything
other than her true self.
other than her true self.
190
527880
4594
09:06
(Applause)
191
534259
3371
09:12
PSW: So as we sat by the river that day,
192
540494
2827
09:15
Jonathan talked about his pain,
his suffering, his grief, his confusion.
his suffering, his grief, his confusion.
193
543345
5323
09:21
He brought all of himself
to that conversation,
to that conversation,
194
549210
3857
09:26
and it tore at me
195
554956
1886
09:31
to be the cause of such pain.
196
559346
2910
09:36
But as he talked, there was something
redemptive going on,
redemptive going on,
197
564566
3714
09:40
full of tension but possibility,
198
568304
2947
09:43
grounded in that narrow path.
199
571275
2813
09:47
He said, "This is always going to be hard.
200
575169
4191
09:51
It always will be.
201
579384
1347
09:52
But Dad,
202
580755
1175
09:54
I love you."
203
582739
1454
09:56
My son is the best of me and more.
204
584954
3997
10:00
He's bold and strong,
205
588975
2539
10:03
sensitive and thoughtful.
206
591538
2795
10:06
I guess you could say,
207
594781
1862
10:10
he's an alpha male who's gentle.
208
598087
2618
10:14
JW: It was time for my daughters
to meet their -- Paula.
to meet their -- Paula.
209
602703
3276
10:18
We went back to my apartment,
210
606003
1393
10:19
and my daughters were coloring
at the dining room table,
at the dining room table,
211
607420
2653
10:22
and there was this awkward silence.
212
610097
1685
10:23
And finally, my youngest asked
a single, confident question.
a single, confident question.
213
611806
3855
10:28
"So, Grandpa, do you have a penis?"
214
616241
3245
10:31
(Laughter)
215
619510
2652
10:34
And after the tension abated
and the laughter subsided,
and the laughter subsided,
216
622186
2572
10:36
my girls took their grandpa
back into their room
back into their room
217
624782
3097
10:39
and showed her their new toys,
218
627903
1433
10:41
and they christened her with a new name.
219
629360
1932
10:43
They called her "GrandPaula."
220
631316
2021
10:45
(Laughter)
221
633361
2503
10:49
PSW: So this past summer, I had all five
of my granddaughters at my home,
of my granddaughters at my home,
222
637629
3927
10:53
there in the foothills
of the Rocky Mountains.
of the Rocky Mountains.
223
641580
2549
10:56
We went swimming
in the cool waters of the river
in the cool waters of the river
224
644153
2252
10:58
that flows through our little town.
225
646429
1670
11:00
And one day, one of Jonathan's
girls said to me,
girls said to me,
226
648123
2264
11:02
"GrandPaula, can we go
tubing on the river?"
tubing on the river?"
227
650411
3551
11:06
And I said, "Well, you know,
228
654303
1462
11:07
I'd really wait until your daddy
gets here for that.
gets here for that.
229
655789
2494
11:10
That feels to me like
that ought to be his call."
that ought to be his call."
230
658307
2343
11:12
And she said, "Oh, but GrandPaula,
231
660674
4006
11:16
he'll exactly make the same
decision you would.
decision you would.
232
664704
2649
11:19
He's a lot like you, you know."
233
667377
2386
11:21
(Laughter)
234
669787
1544
11:23
And I thought, yeah, he is a lot like me,
235
671355
4288
11:28
both of us determined
to find the narrow path
to find the narrow path
236
676489
3234
11:31
and follow it through
the long, dark night,
the long, dark night,
237
679747
4072
11:35
all the way to the light of dawn.
238
683843
2808
11:39
JW: Have you ever noticed
that a child who is secure,
that a child who is secure,
239
687711
2504
11:42
a child who knows love,
240
690239
1252
11:43
that child will dance?
241
691515
1788
11:45
They wave their arms,
242
693815
1716
11:47
they kick their legs to music
that only they can hear.
that only they can hear.
243
695555
2834
11:50
It's the music of a child
who is safe and unharmed
who is safe and unharmed
244
698413
3614
11:54
and wholly loved.
245
702051
2620
11:57
The day after my children
met their GrandPaula,
met their GrandPaula,
246
705419
2259
11:59
she took them to go get doughnuts,
247
707702
1652
12:01
and I watched as they walked
down the street,
down the street,
248
709378
2132
12:03
and my girls took my father's arms,
249
711534
1687
12:05
and they danced.
250
713245
1962
12:07
My father's arms swung wildly.
251
715606
2329
12:11
You bought them one too many doughnuts,
because you always do --
because you always do --
252
719012
3092
12:14
(Laughter)
253
722128
1039
12:15
I watched my older daughter
take a bite of her doughnut,
take a bite of her doughnut,
254
723191
2654
12:17
and she unleashed two jumps and a twirl.
255
725869
2401
12:20
It was perfect.
256
728294
1319
12:22
That narrow path,
257
730931
1414
12:24
it always has its share
of burdens and challenges.
of burdens and challenges.
258
732369
2519
12:27
But I was certain that we were going
to see this through to redemption.
to see this through to redemption.
259
735659
4249
12:32
I looked at my dad
260
740770
1150
12:33
and I looked at my girls who were dancing
and eating their doughnuts,
and eating their doughnuts,
261
741944
3989
12:37
and I said aloud to no one in particular,
262
745957
2348
12:40
I said, "This ...
263
748329
1388
12:42
this is how God sees my dad."
264
750503
2003
12:46
My father was literally born again.
265
754033
2126
12:49
And by choosing the narrow
path of redemption,
path of redemption,
266
757059
3093
12:52
I was born again with her.
267
760176
1651
12:54
Thank you.
268
762234
1150
12:55
(Applause and cheers)
269
763912
6603
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Paula Stone Williams - Religious leader, counselor, advocatePaula Stone Williams is a pastor, counselor, speaker, LGBTQ ambassador and gender equity advocate.
Why you should listen
The Reverend Dr. Paula Stone Williams knows the truth will set you free, but only after it upends your carefully constructed narrative. Her devotion to authenticity caused her to leave her comfort zone as a nationally known religious leader and follow her heart to transition from Paul to Paula. She lost all of her jobs and most of her friends. Williams also discovered the massive differences between life as a male and as a female in America.
Williams is the pastor of preaching and worship at Left Hand Church in Longmont, Colorado, a pastoral counselor with RLT Pathways and a sought-after speaker to corporations, government agencies, universities and religious institutions on issues of gender equity and LGBTQ advocacy. She has been featured in the New York Times, the Denver Post, New Scientist, Radio New Zealand, Colorado Public Radio and The Huffington Post. Her TEDxMileHigh talk on gender equity has had more than one million views.
Paula Stone Williams | Speaker | TED.com
Jonathan Williams - Religious leader, storyteller
Jonathan Williams likes to tell stories and throw parties, so he started a church that allowed him to do both.
Why you should listen
After teaching fifth grade in West Philadelphia for seven years, Jonathan Williams decided to join the family business and become a pastor like his father. He started a church in Brooklyn, NY, and just three months later faced a religious and personal reckoning when his father announced her transition from male to female. Williams decided that his church would become an advocate for the LGBTQ+ community, forever shifting the landscape in his personal and professional life.
Williams continues to lead Forefront Church in Brooklyn. In January 2019, he released his book, She's My Dad: A Father’s Transition and a Son's Redemption, published by Westminster John Knox Press. Williams has told his story to the New York Times, Huffington Post, Christian Standard Magazine, Faithfully Magazine and Rebel Storytellers.
Jonathan Williams | Speaker | TED.com