TED2017
Shonda Rhimes and Cyndi Stivers: The future of storytelling
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"We all feel a compelling need to watch stories, to tell stories ... to discuss the things that tell each one of us that we are not alone in the world," says TV titan Shonda Rhimes. A dominant force in television since "Grey's Anatomy" hit the airwaves, Rhimes discusses the future of media networks, how she's using her narrative-building skills as a force for good, an intriguing concept known as "Amish summers" and much more, in conversation with Cyndi Stivers, director of the TED Residency.
Shonda Rhimes - Writer, producer
With the runaway success of shows like Scandal and Grey’s Anatomy, Shonda Rhimes has become one of Hollywood’s most powerful icons. Full bioCyndi Stivers - Encourager-in-chief, TED Residency
Cyndi Stivers curates special events for TED and often serves as a board member, adviser, business strategist and startup coach. Full bio
With the runaway success of shows like Scandal and Grey’s Anatomy, Shonda Rhimes has become one of Hollywood’s most powerful icons. Full bioCyndi Stivers - Encourager-in-chief, TED Residency
Cyndi Stivers curates special events for TED and often serves as a board member, adviser, business strategist and startup coach. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Cyndi Stivers: So, future of storytelling.
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Before we do the future,
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let's talk about what is never
going to change about storytelling.
going to change about storytelling.
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Shonda Rhimes:
What's never going to change.
What's never going to change.
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Obviously, I think good stories
are never going to change,
are never going to change,
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the need for people to gather together
and exchange their stories
and exchange their stories
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and to talk about the things
that feel universal,
that feel universal,
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the idea that we all feel
a compelling need to watch stories,
a compelling need to watch stories,
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to tell stories, to share stories --
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sort of the gathering around the campfire
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to discuss the things
that tell each one of us
that tell each one of us
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that we are not alone in the world.
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Those things to me
are never going to change.
are never going to change.
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That essence of storytelling
is never going to change.
is never going to change.
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CS: OK. In preparation
for this conversation,
for this conversation,
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I checked in with Susan Lyne,
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who was running ABC Entertainment
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when you were working
on "Grey's Anatomy" --
on "Grey's Anatomy" --
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SR: Yes.
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CS: And she said that there was
this indelible memory she had
this indelible memory she had
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of your casting process,
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where without discussing it
with any of the executives,
with any of the executives,
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you got people coming in
to read for your scripts,
to read for your scripts,
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and every one of them
was the full range of humanity,
was the full range of humanity,
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you did not type anyone in any way,
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and that it was completely surprising.
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So she said, in addition
to retraining the studio executives,
to retraining the studio executives,
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you also, she feels,
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and I think this is -- I agree,
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retrained the expectations
of the American TV audience.
of the American TV audience.
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So what else does the audience
not yet realize that it needs?
not yet realize that it needs?
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SR: What else does it not yet realize?
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Well, I mean, I don't think
we're anywhere near there yet.
we're anywhere near there yet.
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I mean, we're still in a place
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in which we're far, far behind what looks
like the real world in actuality.
like the real world in actuality.
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I wasn't bringing in
a bunch of actors
a bunch of actors
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who looked very different from one another
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simply because I was
trying to make a point,
trying to make a point,
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and I wasn't trying
to do anything special.
to do anything special.
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It never occurred to me
that that was new, different or weird.
that that was new, different or weird.
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I just brought in actors
because I thought they were interesting
because I thought they were interesting
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and to me, the idea that it
was completely surprising to everybody --
was completely surprising to everybody --
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I didn't know that for a while.
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I just thought: these are the actors
I want to see play these parts.
I want to see play these parts.
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I want to see what
they look like if they read.
they look like if they read.
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We'll see what happens.
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So I think the interesting thing
that happens is
that happens is
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that when you look at the world
through another lens,
through another lens,
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when you're not the person
normally in charge of things,
normally in charge of things,
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it just comes out a different way.
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CS: So you now have
this big machine that you run,
this big machine that you run,
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as a titan -- as you know,
last year when she gave her talk --
last year when she gave her talk --
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she's a titan.
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So what do you think
is going to happen as we go on?
is going to happen as we go on?
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There's a huge amount of money
involved in producing these shows.
involved in producing these shows.
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While the tools of making stories
have gone and gotten greatly democratized,
have gone and gotten greatly democratized,
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there's still this large distribution:
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people who rent networks,
who rent the audience to advertisers
who rent the audience to advertisers
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and make it all pay.
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How do you see the business model changing
now that anyone can be a storyteller?
now that anyone can be a storyteller?
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SR: I think it's changing every day.
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I mean, the rapid, rapid change
that's happening is amazing.
that's happening is amazing.
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And I feel -- the panic is palpable,
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and I don't mean that in a bad way.
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I think it's kind of exciting.
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The idea that there's
sort of an equalizer happening,
sort of an equalizer happening,
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that sort of means that anybody
can make something, is wonderful.
can make something, is wonderful.
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I think there's some scary in the idea
that you can't find the good work now.
that you can't find the good work now.
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There's so much work out there.
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I think there's something like
417 dramas on television right now
417 dramas on television right now
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at any given time in any given place,
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but you can't find them.
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You can't find the good ones.
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So there's a lot of bad stuff out there
because everybody can make something.
because everybody can make something.
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It's like if everybody painted a painting.
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You know, there's not
that many good painters.
that many good painters.
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But finding the good stories,
the good shows,
the good shows,
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is harder and harder and harder.
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Because if you have
one tiny show over here on AMC
one tiny show over here on AMC
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and one tiny show over here over there,
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finding where they are
becomes much harder.
becomes much harder.
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So I think that ferreting out the gems
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and finding out who made
the great webisode and who made this,
the great webisode and who made this,
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it's -- I mean, think
about the poor critics
about the poor critics
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who now are spending 24 hours a day
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trapped in their homes
watching everything.
watching everything.
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It's not an easy job right now.
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So the distribution engines
are getting more and more vast,
are getting more and more vast,
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but finding the good programming
for everybody in the audience
for everybody in the audience
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is getting harder.
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And unlike the news,
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where everything's getting
winnowed down to just who you are,
winnowed down to just who you are,
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television seems to be getting --
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and by television I mean anything
you can watch, television shows on --
you can watch, television shows on --
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seems to be getting
wider and wider and wider.
wider and wider and wider.
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And so anybody's making stories,
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and the geniuses are sometimes hidden.
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But it's going to be harder to find,
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and at some point that will collapse.
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People keep talking about peak TV.
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I don't know when that's going to happen.
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I think at some point
it'll collapse a little bit
it'll collapse a little bit
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and we'll, sort of, come back together.
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I don't know if it
will be network television.
will be network television.
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I don't know if that model is sustainable.
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CS: What about the model
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that Amazon and Netflix are throwing
a lot of money around right now.
a lot of money around right now.
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SR: That is true.
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I think it's an interesting model.
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I think there's
something exciting about it.
something exciting about it.
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For content creators, I think
there's something exciting about it.
there's something exciting about it.
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For the world, I think
there's something exciting about it.
there's something exciting about it.
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The idea that there are programs now
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that can be in multiple languages
with characters from all over the world
with characters from all over the world
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that are appealing and come out
for everybody at the same time
for everybody at the same time
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is exciting.
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I mean, I think the international sense
that television can now take on
that television can now take on
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makes sense to me,
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that programming can now take on.
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Television so much is made for, like --
here's our American audience.
here's our American audience.
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We make these shows,
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and then they shove them
out into the world
out into the world
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and hope for the best,
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as opposed to really thinking
about the fact that America is not it.
about the fact that America is not it.
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I mean, we love ourselves
and everything, but it's not i.
and everything, but it's not i.
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And we should be
taking into account the fact
taking into account the fact
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that there are all
of these other places in the world
of these other places in the world
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that we should be interested in
while we're telling stories.
while we're telling stories.
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It makes the world smaller.
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I don't know.
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I think it pushes forward the idea
that the world is a universal place,
that the world is a universal place,
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and our stories become universal things.
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We stop being other.
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CS: You've pioneered, as far as I can see,
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interesting ways to launch new shows, too.
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I mean, when you
launched "Scandal" in 2012,
launched "Scandal" in 2012,
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there was this amazing groundswell
of support on Twitter
of support on Twitter
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the likes of which nobody had seen before.
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Do you have any other
tricks up your sleeve
tricks up your sleeve
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when you launch your next one?
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What do you think
will happen in that regard?
will happen in that regard?
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SR: We do have some interesting ideas.
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We have a show called "Still Star-Crossed"
coming out this summer.
coming out this summer.
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We have some interesting ideas for that.
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I'm not sure if we're going
to be able to do them in time.
to be able to do them in time.
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I thought they were fun.
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But the idea
that we would live-tweet our show
that we would live-tweet our show
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was really just us thinking
that would be fun.
that would be fun.
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We didn't realize that the critics
would start to live-tweet along with us.
would start to live-tweet along with us.
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But the fans -- getting people
to be a part of it,
to be a part of it,
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making it more of a campfire --
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you know, when you're all
on Twitter together
on Twitter together
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and you're all talking together,
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it is more of a shared experience,
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and finding other ways
to make that possible
to make that possible
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and finding other ways
to make people feel engaged
to make people feel engaged
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is important.
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CS: So when you have
all those different people making stories
all those different people making stories
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and only some of them
are going to break through
are going to break through
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and get that audience somehow,
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how do you think
storytellers will get paid?
storytellers will get paid?
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SR: I actually have been struggling
with this concept as well.
with this concept as well.
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Is it going to be a subscriber model?
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Are people going to say, like, I'm going
to watch this particular person's shows,
to watch this particular person's shows,
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and that's how we're going to do it?
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CS: I think we should buy
a passport to Shondaland. Right?
a passport to Shondaland. Right?
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SR: I don't know about that, but yeah.
That's a lot more work for me.
That's a lot more work for me.
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I do think that there are
going to be different ways,
going to be different ways,
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but I don't know necessarily.
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I mean, I'll be honest and say
a lot of content creators
a lot of content creators
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are not necessarily interested
in being distributors,
in being distributors,
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mainly because what I dream of doing
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is creating content.
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I really love to create content.
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I want to get paid for it
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and I want to get paid the money
that I deserve to get paid for it,
that I deserve to get paid for it,
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and there's a hard part in finding that.
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But I also want it to be made possible
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for, you know,
the people who work with me,
the people who work with me,
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the people who work for me,
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everybody to sort of get paid in a way,
and they're all making a living.
and they're all making a living.
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How it gets distributed
is getting harder and harder.
is getting harder and harder.
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CS: How about the many new tools,
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you know, VR, AR ...
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I find it fascinating
that you can't really binge-watch,
that you can't really binge-watch,
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you can't fast-forward in those things.
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What do you see as the future
of those for storytelling?
of those for storytelling?
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SR: I spent a lot of time in the past year
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just exploring those,
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getting lots of demonstrations
and paying attention.
and paying attention.
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I find them fascinating,
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mainly because I think that --
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I think most people
think of them for gaming,
think of them for gaming,
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I think most people think of them
for things like action,
for things like action,
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and I think that there is
a sense of intimacy
a sense of intimacy
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that is very present in those things,
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the idea that -- picture this,
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you can sit there
and have a conversation with Fitz,
and have a conversation with Fitz,
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or at least sit there
while Fitz talks to you,
while Fitz talks to you,
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President Fitzgerald Grant III,
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while he talks to you
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about why he's making
a choice that he makes,
a choice that he makes,
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and it's a very heartfelt moment.
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And instead of you watching
a television screen,
a television screen,
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you're sitting there next to him,
and he's having this conversation.
and he's having this conversation.
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Now, you fall in love with the man
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while he's doing it
from a television screen.
from a television screen.
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Imagine sitting next to him,
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or being with a character like Huck
who's about to execute somebody.
who's about to execute somebody.
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And instead of having a scene
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where, you know, he's talking
to another character very rapidly,
to another character very rapidly,
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he goes into a closet and turns to you
and tells you, you know,
and tells you, you know,
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what's going to happen
and why he's afraid and nervous.
and why he's afraid and nervous.
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It's a little more like theater,
and I'm not sure it would work,
and I'm not sure it would work,
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but I'm fascinating by the concept
of something like that
of something like that
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and what that would mean for an audience.
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10:00
And to get to play with those ideas
would be interesting,
would be interesting,
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and I think, you know, for my audience,
the people who watch my shows,
the people who watch my shows,
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which is, you know, women 12 to 75,
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there's something interesting
in there for them.
in there for them.
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CS: And how about
the input of the audience?
the input of the audience?
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How interested are you in the things
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where the audience
can actually go up to a certain point
can actually go up to a certain point
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and then decide, oh wait,
I'm going to choose my own adventure.
I'm going to choose my own adventure.
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I'm going to run off with Fitz
or I'm going to run off with --
or I'm going to run off with --
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SR: Oh, the choose-
your-own-adventure stories.
your-own-adventure stories.
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I have a hard time with those,
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and not necessarily because
I want to be in control of everything,
I want to be in control of everything,
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but because when I'm watching television
or I'm watching a movie,
or I'm watching a movie,
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I know for a fact
that a story is not as good
that a story is not as good
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when I have control
over exactly what's going to happen
over exactly what's going to happen
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to somebody else's character.
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You know, if I could tell you exactly
what I wanted to happen to Walter White,
what I wanted to happen to Walter White,
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that's great, but the story
is not the same, and it's not as powerful.
is not the same, and it's not as powerful.
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You know, if I'm in charge
of how "The Sopranos" ends,
of how "The Sopranos" ends,
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then that's lovely and I have an ending
that's nice and satisfying,
that's nice and satisfying,
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but it's not the same story
and it's not the same emotional impact.
and it's not the same emotional impact.
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CS: I can't stop imagining
what that might be.
what that might be.
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Sorry, you're losing me for a minute.
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SR: But what's wonderful is
I don't get to imagine it,
I don't get to imagine it,
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because Vince has his own ending,
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11:15
and it makes it really powerful
to know that somebody else has told.
to know that somebody else has told.
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You know, if you could
decide that, you know,
decide that, you know,
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in "Jaws," the shark wins or something,
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it doesn't do what it needs to do for you.
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The story is the story that is told,
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and you can walk away angry
and you can walk away debating
and you can walk away debating
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and you can walk away arguing,
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but that's why it works.
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That is why it's art.
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Otherwise, it's just a game,
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11:37
and games can be art,
but in a very different way.
but in a very different way.
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CS: Gamers who actually
sell the right to sit there
sell the right to sit there
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11:44
and comment on what's happening,
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11:46
to me that's more community
than storytelling.
than storytelling.
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SR: And that is its own form of campfire.
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11:51
I don't discount that
as a form of storytelling,
as a form of storytelling,
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11:54
but it is a group form, I suppose.
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CS: All right,
what about the super-super --
what about the super-super --
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the fact that everything's
getting shorter, shorter, shorter.
getting shorter, shorter, shorter.
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12:04
And, you know, Snapchat
now has something it calls shows
now has something it calls shows
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12:08
that are one minute long.
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12:11
SR: It's interesting.
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Part of me thinks
it sounds like commercials.
it sounds like commercials.
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12:18
I mean, it does -- like, sponsored by.
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12:21
But part of me also gets it completely.
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12:23
There's something
really wonderful about it.
really wonderful about it.
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12:25
If you think about a world
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12:27
in which most people
are watching television on their phones,
are watching television on their phones,
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12:30
if you think about a place like India,
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12:32
where most of the input is coming in
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12:33
and that's where
most of the product is coming in,
most of the product is coming in,
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12:36
shorter makes sense.
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12:37
If you can charge people more
for shorter periods of content,
for shorter periods of content,
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12:41
some distributor has figured out
a way to make a lot more money.
a way to make a lot more money.
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If you're making content,
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12:46
it costs less money
to make it and put it out there.
to make it and put it out there.
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12:49
And, by the way,
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if you're 14 and have
a short attention span, like my daughter,
a short attention span, like my daughter,
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that's what you want to see,
that's what you want to make,
that's what you want to make,
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that's how it works.
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12:59
And if you do it right
and it actually feels like narrative,
and it actually feels like narrative,
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people will hang on for it
no matter what you do.
no matter what you do.
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CS: I'm glad you raised your daughters,
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13:08
because I am wondering how are they
going to consume entertainment,
going to consume entertainment,
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13:13
and also not just entertainment,
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13:15
but news, too.
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13:17
When they're not -- I mean,
the algorithmic robot overlords
the algorithmic robot overlords
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are going to feed them
what they've already done.
what they've already done.
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13:24
How do you think we will correct for that
and make people well-rounded citizens?
and make people well-rounded citizens?
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SR: Well, me and how I correct for it
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13:31
is completely different
than how somebody else might do it.
than how somebody else might do it.
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13:34
CS: Feel free to speculate.
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13:36
SR: I really don't know
how we're going to do it in the future.
how we're going to do it in the future.
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13:39
I mean, my poor children have been
the subject of all of my experiments.
the subject of all of my experiments.
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We're still doing
what I call "Amish summers"
what I call "Amish summers"
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13:45
where I turn off all electronics
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13:47
and pack away
all their computers and stuff
all their computers and stuff
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and watch them scream for a while
until they settle down
until they settle down
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13:52
into, like, an electronic-free summer.
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13:56
But honestly, it's a very hard world
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13:59
in which now, as grown-ups,
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14:01
we're so interested
in watching our own thing,
in watching our own thing,
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14:04
and we don't even know
that we're being fed, sometimes,
that we're being fed, sometimes,
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14:07
just our own opinions.
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14:09
You know, the way it's working now,
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14:10
you're watching a feed,
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14:12
and the feeds are being corrected
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14:13
so that you're only getting
your own opinions
your own opinions
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14:15
and you're feeling
more and more right about yourself.
more and more right about yourself.
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14:18
So how do you really start to discern?
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14:20
It's getting a little bit disturbing.
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14:22
So maybe it'll overcorrect,
maybe it'll all explode,
maybe it'll all explode,
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14:25
or maybe we'll all just become --
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14:28
I hate to be negative about it,
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14:29
but maybe we'll all
just become more idiotic.
just become more idiotic.
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14:33
(Cyndi laughs)
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14:35
CS: Yeah, can you picture
any corrective that you could do
any corrective that you could do
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14:38
with scripted, fictional work?
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14:41
SR: I think a lot about the fact
that television has the power
that television has the power
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14:45
to educate people in a powerful way,
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14:47
and when you're watching television --
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14:49
for instance, they do studies
about medical shows.
about medical shows.
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3256
14:52
I think it's 87 percent,
87 percent of people
87 percent of people
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14:54
get most of their knowledge
about medicine and medical facts
about medicine and medical facts
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14:57
from medical shows,
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14:59
much more so than
they do from their doctors,
they do from their doctors,
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15:01
than from articles.
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15:02
So we work really hard to be accurate,
and every time we make a mistake,
and every time we make a mistake,
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15:06
I feel really guilty,
like we're going to do something bad,
like we're going to do something bad,
329
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15:09
but we also give a lot
of good medical information.
of good medical information.
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15:11
There are so many other ways
to give information on those shows.
to give information on those shows.
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15:14
People are being entertained
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15:16
and maybe they don't want
to read the news,
to read the news,
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15:18
but there are a lot of ways to give
fair information out on those shows,
fair information out on those shows,
334
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3416
15:21
not in some creepy, like,
we're going to control people's minds way,
we're going to control people's minds way,
335
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15:26
but in a way that's sort of
very interesting and intelligent
very interesting and intelligent
336
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15:29
and not about pushing
one side's version or the other,
one side's version or the other,
337
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15:32
like, giving out the truth.
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15:34
It would be strange, though,
339
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1936
15:36
if television drama
was how we were giving the news.
was how we were giving the news.
340
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15:39
CS: It would be strange,
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15:41
but I gather a lot of what
you've written as fiction
you've written as fiction
342
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15:44
has become prediction this season?
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2400
15:47
SR: You know, "Scandal" has been
very disturbing for that reason.
very disturbing for that reason.
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3256
15:50
We have this show
that's about politics gone mad,
that's about politics gone mad,
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2976
15:53
and basically the way
we've always told the show --
we've always told the show --
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2936
15:56
you know, everybody
pays attention to the papers.
pays attention to the papers.
347
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2376
15:59
We read everything.
We talk about everything.
We talk about everything.
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16:01
We have lots of friends in Washington.
349
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1936
16:03
And we'd always sort of
done our show as a speculation.
done our show as a speculation.
350
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16:06
We'd sit in the room and think,
351
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16:07
what would happen
if the wheels came off the bus
if the wheels came off the bus
352
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2256
16:10
and everything went crazy?
353
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16:11
And that was always great,
354
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1536
16:12
except now it felt like
the wheels were coming off the bus
the wheels were coming off the bus
355
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2936
16:15
and things were actually going crazy,
356
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1816
16:17
so the things that we were speculating
were really coming true.
were really coming true.
357
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2976
16:20
I mean, our season this year
358
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1376
16:22
was going to end with the Russians
controlling the American election,
controlling the American election,
359
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3776
16:25
and we'd written it, we'd planned for it,
360
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2656
16:28
it was all there,
361
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1216
16:29
and then the Russians were suspected
of being involved in the American election
of being involved in the American election
362
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3816
16:33
and we suddenly had to change
what we were going to do for our season.
what we were going to do for our season.
363
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3336
16:37
I walked in and I was like,
364
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1336
16:38
"That scene where our mystery woman
starts speaking Russian?
starts speaking Russian?
365
986360
2856
16:41
We have to fix that
and figure out what we're going to do."
and figure out what we're going to do."
366
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2856
16:44
That just comes from extrapolating
367
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16:45
out from what we thought
was going to happen,
was going to happen,
368
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2216
16:48
or what we thought was crazy.
369
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1480
16:50
CS: That's great.
370
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1296
16:51
So where else in US or elsewhere
in the world do you look?
in the world do you look?
371
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4896
16:56
Who is doing interesting
storytelling right now?
storytelling right now?
372
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2456
16:59
SR: I don't know, there's a lot
of interesting stuff out there.
of interesting stuff out there.
373
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3016
17:02
Obviously British television
is always amazing
is always amazing
374
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2936
17:05
and always does interesting things.
375
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2616
17:07
I don't get to watch a lot of TV,
376
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2296
17:10
mainly because I'm busy working.
377
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2416
17:12
And I pretty much try not to watch
very much television at all,
very much television at all,
378
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3616
17:16
even American television,
until I'm done with a season,
until I'm done with a season,
379
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2895
17:19
because things start
to creep into my head otherwise.
to creep into my head otherwise.
380
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2495
17:21
I start to wonder, like,
381
1029720
1936
17:23
why can't our characters wear crowns
and talk about being on a throne?
and talk about being on a throne?
382
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3416
17:27
It gets crazy.
383
1035119
1657
17:28
So I try not to watch much
until the seasons are over.
until the seasons are over.
384
1036800
3736
17:32
But I do think that there's a lot of
interesting European television out there.
interesting European television out there.
385
1040560
3736
17:36
I was at the International Emmys
386
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1896
17:38
and looking around and seeing
the stuff that they were showing,
the stuff that they were showing,
387
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2976
17:41
and I was kind of fascinated.
388
1049240
1416
17:42
There's some stuff
I want to watch and check out.
I want to watch and check out.
389
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2736
17:45
CS: Can you imagine --
390
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1256
17:46
I know that you don't spend a lot of time
thinking about tech stuff,
thinking about tech stuff,
391
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3536
17:50
but you know how a few years ago
we had someone here at TED
we had someone here at TED
392
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3016
17:53
talking about seeing,
393
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2256
17:55
wearing Google Glass and seeing
your TV shows essentially in your eye?
your TV shows essentially in your eye?
394
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6136
18:01
Do you ever fantasize when, you know --
395
1069760
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18:04
the little girl
who sat on the pantry floor
who sat on the pantry floor
396
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2456
18:06
in your parents' house,
397
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1736
18:08
did you ever imagine any other medium?
398
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2600
18:12
Or would you now?
399
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18:13
SR: Any other medium.
400
1081680
1336
18:15
For storytelling, other than books?
401
1083040
1696
18:16
I mean, I grew up wanting
to be Toni Morrison, so no.
to be Toni Morrison, so no.
402
1084760
2816
18:19
I mean, I didn't even imagine television.
403
1087600
1976
18:21
So the idea that there could be
some bigger world,
some bigger world,
404
1089600
3856
18:25
some more magical way of making things ---
405
1093480
2176
18:27
I'm always excited
when new technology comes out
when new technology comes out
406
1095680
2256
18:29
and I'm always the first one
to want to try it.
to want to try it.
407
1097960
3016
18:33
The possibilities feel endless
and exciting right now,
and exciting right now,
408
1101000
3176
18:36
which is what excites me.
409
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1440
18:39
We're in this sort of Wild West period,
to me, it feels like,
to me, it feels like,
410
1107040
3056
18:42
because nobody knows
what we're going to settle on.
what we're going to settle on.
411
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2416
18:44
You can put stories anywhere right now
412
1112560
2216
18:46
and that's cool to me,
413
1114800
1456
18:48
and it feels like once we figure out
how to get the technology
how to get the technology
414
1116280
4136
18:52
and the creativity
of storytelling to meet,
of storytelling to meet,
415
1120440
3456
18:55
the possibilities are endless.
416
1123920
1429
18:58
CS: And also the technology has enabled
the thing I briefly flew by earlier,
the thing I briefly flew by earlier,
417
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4736
19:03
binge-viewing,
which is a recent phenomenon,
which is a recent phenomenon,
418
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2976
19:06
since you've been doing shows, right?
419
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2176
19:08
And how do you think does that change
the storytelling process at all?
the storytelling process at all?
420
1136240
4696
19:12
You always had a bible
for the whole season beforehand, right?
for the whole season beforehand, right?
421
1140960
3816
19:16
SR: No, I just always knew
where we were going to end.
where we were going to end.
422
1144800
3336
19:20
So for me,
423
1148160
2336
19:22
the only way I can really comment on that
424
1150520
1976
19:24
is that I have a show
that's been going on for 14 seasons
that's been going on for 14 seasons
425
1152520
4696
19:29
and so there are the people
who have been watching it for 14 seasons,
who have been watching it for 14 seasons,
426
1157240
3296
19:32
and then there are the 12-year-old girls
I'd encounter in the grocery store
I'd encounter in the grocery store
427
1160560
3536
19:36
who had watched
297 episodes in three weeks.
297 episodes in three weeks.
428
1164120
3976
19:40
Seriously, and that's a very different
experience for them,
experience for them,
429
1168120
2816
19:42
because they've been inside of something
430
1170960
1936
19:44
really intensely for
a very short period of time
a very short period of time
431
1172920
3416
19:48
in a very intense way,
432
1176360
1496
19:49
and to them the story
has a completely different arc
has a completely different arc
433
1177880
2936
19:52
and a completely different meaning
434
1180840
1656
19:54
because it never had any breaks.
435
1182520
1576
19:56
CS: It's like visiting a country
and then leaving it. It's a strange --
and then leaving it. It's a strange --
436
1184120
3336
19:59
SR: It's like reading an amazing novel
and then putting it down.
and then putting it down.
437
1187480
3056
20:02
I think that is the beauty
of the experience.
of the experience.
438
1190560
3056
20:05
You don't necessarily have to watch
something for 14 seasons.
something for 14 seasons.
439
1193640
2936
20:08
It's not necessarily
the way everything's supposed to be.
the way everything's supposed to be.
440
1196600
2680
20:12
CS: Is there any topic
that you don't think we should touch?
that you don't think we should touch?
441
1200320
3600
20:16
SR: I don't think
I think of story that way.
I think of story that way.
442
1204600
2176
20:18
I think of story in terms of character
and what characters would do
and what characters would do
443
1206800
3176
20:22
and what characters need to do
in order to make them move forward,
in order to make them move forward,
444
1210000
3216
20:25
so I'm never really thinking of story
in terms of just plot,
in terms of just plot,
445
1213240
3176
20:28
and when writers come
into my writer's room and pitch me plot,
into my writer's room and pitch me plot,
446
1216440
2936
20:31
I say, "You're not speaking English."
447
1219400
2096
20:33
Like, that's the thing I say.
448
1221520
1416
20:34
We're not speaking English.
I need to hear what's real.
I need to hear what's real.
449
1222960
2616
20:37
And so I don't think of it that way.
450
1225600
1736
20:39
I don't know if there's a way
to think there's something I wouldn't do
to think there's something I wouldn't do
451
1227360
3336
20:42
because that feels like I'm plucking
pieces of plot off a wall or something.
pieces of plot off a wall or something.
452
1230720
3616
20:46
CS: That's great. To what extent
do you think you will use --
do you think you will use --
453
1234360
3136
20:49
You know, you recently went
on the board of Planned Parenthood
on the board of Planned Parenthood
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and got involved
in the Hillary Clinton campaign.
in the Hillary Clinton campaign.
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To what extent do you think
you will use your storytelling
you will use your storytelling
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in the real world
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to effect change?
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SR: Well, you know, there's --
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That's an intense subject to me,
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because I feel like the lack of narrative
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that a lot of people have is difficult.
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21:17
You know, like,
there's a lot of organizations
there's a lot of organizations
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that don't have a positive narrative
that they've created for themselves
that they've created for themselves
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that would help them.
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There's a lot of campaigns
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that could be helped
with a better narrative.
with a better narrative.
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The Democrats could do a lot
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with a very strong
narrative for themselves.
narrative for themselves.
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There's a lot of different things
that could happen
that could happen
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in terms of using storytelling voice,
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and I don't mean that in a fiction way,
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I mean that in a same way
that any speechwriter would mean it.
that any speechwriter would mean it.
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And I see that,
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but I don't necessarily know
that that's, like, my job to do that.
that that's, like, my job to do that.
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CS: All right.
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Please help me thank Shonda.
SR: Thank you.
SR: Thank you.
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(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Shonda Rhimes - Writer, producerWith the runaway success of shows like Scandal and Grey’s Anatomy, Shonda Rhimes has become one of Hollywood’s most powerful icons.
Why you should listen
When ABC kicked off its 2014 television season by devoting its Thursday night line-up to the Shondaland shows How to Get Away With Murder, Scandal and Grey’s Anatomy, Shonda Rhimes -- already one of the most influential producers in Hollywood -- became arguably the single most powerful voice in television today. In 2015, ABC snapped up Rhimes’ latest series, The Catch. Shondaland shows have the special ability to capture both fan devotion and critical attention – she’s won everything from a Peabody Award to a People’s Choice Award.
Rhimes is known for her groundbreaking storytelling, her candor and humor in the face of her critics, and for never shying away from speaking her mind. She’s also known for her social media savvy, and fans of her shows basically own Twitter on Thursday nights. Her first book, Year of Yes, was published in November 2015.
Shonda Rhimes | Speaker | TED.com
Cyndi Stivers - Encourager-in-chief, TED Residency
Cyndi Stivers curates special events for TED and often serves as a board member, adviser, business strategist and startup coach.
Why you should listen
Cyndi Stivers is encourager-in-chief of the TED Residency, an idea incubator at TED headquarters in New York. She started out in hot-type newspapers and has since shepherded media startups and reinvigorated venerable brands on nearly every platform, including magazines, television, radio and online, right back to the early days of the consumer internet. From 1995 to 2005, while in charge of North American operations for London-based Time Out Group Ltd., she led the creation of Time Out magazines, guidebooks and websites for New York and Chicago.
Stivers is a longtime trustee of Barnard College, of which she is a proud alumna. For more work history, please see LinkedIn or cyndistivers.com, and for photos of urban gardens and other obsessions, follow @CyndiStivers on Twitter or Facebook.
Cyndi Stivers | Speaker | TED.com