TED2004
Al Seckel: Visual illusions that show how we (mis)think
Al Sekel (Al Seckel): Vizuelne iluzije koje pokazuju kako (pogrešno) razmišljamo
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Al Sekel, kognitivni neuronaučnik, istražuje perceptivne iluzije koje znaju prevariti naš mozak. Mnoštvo optičkih iluzija pomoglo mu je da dokaže ne samo da se lako damo prevariti, već da nam se to i dopada.
Al Seckel - Master of visual illusions
Al Seckel explored how eye tricks can reveal the way the brain processes visual information -- or fails to do so. Among his other accomplishments: He co-created the Darwin Fish. Full bio
Al Seckel explored how eye tricks can reveal the way the brain processes visual information -- or fails to do so. Among his other accomplishments: He co-created the Darwin Fish. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:25
We're going to talk -- my -- a new lecture, just
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Evo moje nove lekcije samo za TED.
00:26
for TED -- and I'm going show you some illusions
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Pokazaću vam neke iluzije
koje smo spremili za TED
koje smo spremili za TED
00:29
that we've created for TED, and I'm going to try
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i pokušaću da to povežem sa srećom.
00:32
to relate this to happiness. What I was thinking
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Ono što podrazumevam pod srećom
00:34
about with happiness is, what gives happiness --
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je ono što nas izaziva sreću,
00:37
or happiness, which I equate with joy in my
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ili je to sreća
koju izjednačavam sa radošću
koju izjednačavam sa radošću
00:41
particular area, and I think there's something very
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u svom specifičnom polju,
a mislim da tu postoji nešto osnovno
00:43
fundamental. And I was thinking about this. And
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i o tome sam razmišljao.
00:47
it's in terms of both illusions and movies that we
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To se odnosi na iluzije,
filmove koje idemo da gledamo,
filmove koje idemo da gledamo,
00:51
go see and jokes and magic shows is that there's
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šale i mađioničarske predstave.
Postoji nešto u vezi njih,
00:55
something about these things where our
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gde su naša očekivanja narušena,
00:57
expectations are violated in some sort of pleasing
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ali na prijatan način.
01:01
way. You go see a movie. And it has an unexpected
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Odete da odgledate film
i javi se neočekivan preokret,
nešto što niste očekivali
nešto što niste očekivali
01:04
twist -- something that you didn't expect -- and
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01:07
you find a joyful experience. You look at those
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i doživljavate prijatno iskustvo.
Posmatrate neke iluzije u mojoj knjizi,
01:10
sort of illusions in my book and it's not as what
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a one nisu onakve kakve ste očekivali
01:13
you'd expect. And there's something joyful about
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i nešto je radosno u vezi sa tim.
01:15
it. And it's the same thing with jokes and all
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Tako je i sa vicevima i sličnim stvarima.
01:18
these sorts of things. So, what I'm going to try
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U ovom predavanju nameravam
da odem malo dalje
da odem malo dalje
01:21
and do in my lecture is go a little bit further
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01:24
and see if I can violate your expectations in a
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i da vidim da li mogu narušiti
vaša očekivanja na prijatan način.
vaša očekivanja na prijatan način.
01:27
pleasing way. I mean, sometimes expectations that
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Nekada narušavanje očekivanja
nije takvo,
nije takvo,
01:30
are violated are not pleasant, but I'm going to try
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ali ja ću se potruditi
da to bude prijatno, jednostavno,
da to bude prijatno, jednostavno,
01:32
to do it in a pleasant way, in a very primal way,
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01:35
so I can make the audience here happy.
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da bih usrećio publiku ovde.
01:37
So I'm going to show you some ways that we can
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Pokazaću vam nekoliko načina
na koje se očekivanja mogu narušiti.
na koje se očekivanja mogu narušiti.
01:40
violate your expectations. First of all, I want to
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01:43
show you the particular illusion here. I want you
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Prvo ću vam pokazati
jednu posebnu iluziju.
jednu posebnu iluziju.
01:46
first of all when it pops up on the screen to
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Želim da, kao prvo,
kada se ovo pojavi na ekranu,
kada se ovo pojavi na ekranu,
01:49
notice that the two holes are perpendicular to
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uočite da su dva otvora
u normalnom položaju, pod 90 stepeni.
u normalnom položaju, pod 90 stepeni.
01:51
each other. These are all perceptual tricks. These
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Ovo su sve perceptivne iluzije.
01:55
are real objects that I'm going to show you. Now
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Ovo su stvarni predmeti
koje ću vam pokazati.
koje ću vam pokazati.
02:06
I'm going to show you how it is done. I've looped
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Pokazaću vam sada kako je to urađeno.
Vratio sam malo film da biste doživeli
jedno zanimljivo iskustvo.
jedno zanimljivo iskustvo.
02:09
the film here so you can get a very interesting
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02:11
experience. I want you to see how this illusion is
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Želim da vidite
kako je stvorena ova iluzija,
kako je stvorena ova iluzija,
02:14
constructed, and it's going to rotate so you see
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a ona će se okretati
i videćete njenu unutrašnjost.
i videćete njenu unutrašnjost.
02:17
that it's inside out. Now watch, as it rotates
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Pazite sad, dok se ona rotira unatrag,
02:20
back, how quickly your perception snaps. OK now.
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kako se vaša percepcija brzo menja.
U redu, a sada posmatrajte
kako se rotira natrag.
kako se rotira natrag.
02:26
Watch it as it rotates back again. And this is a very
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A vi ste bistra publika, zar ne?
02:29
bright audience, all right? See if you can stop it
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Probajte da zaustavite ovo dešavanje.
02:32
from happening, even though you know 100 percent it's
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Premda znate da je sto posto tačno,
02:35
true that -- bam! You can't undo it. What does
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bam - ne možete sprečiti da se desi.
02:40
that tell you about yourselves? We're going to do
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Šta vam to govori o vama?
Uradićemo to opet. Nema sumnje.
02:44
it again. No doubt about it. See if you can stop
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Da li možete to zaustaviti?
02:47
it from happening. No. It's difficult.
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Ne. Teško je.
02:54
And we can violate your expectations in a whole
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Možemo narušiti vaša očekivanja
na različite načine,
na različite načine,
02:57
variety of ways about representation, about shape,
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u vezi sa predstavljanjem, oblicima,
bojama, a to je iskonsko.
bojama, a to je iskonsko.
03:00
about color and so forth and it's very primal. And
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03:03
it's an interesting question to ponder, why these
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Zanimljivo je razmotriti to pitanje,
zašto nas ovo čini radosnim.
03:06
things -- we find these things joyful. Why would
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03:10
we find them joyful? So, here's something that
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Zašto bi nam to donosilo radost?
Evo nečeg što je Lajonel uradio
pre izvesnog vremena.
pre izvesnog vremena.
03:13
Lionel did a while ago. I like these sort of
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Volim ovakve sitnice.
03:15
little things like this.
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03:19
Again, this is not an optical trick. This is what
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Ponavljam, ovo nije optička varka.
Ovo je ono što biste videli.
Ovo je ono što biste videli.
03:22
you would see. In other words, it's not a camera
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Drugim rečima, nije trik sa kamerom.
03:42
cut. It's a perceptual trick.
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To je perceptivni trik.
03:55
OK. We can violate your expectations about
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Dobro, narušićemo vam sad
očekivanja u vezi oblika.
očekivanja u vezi oblika.
03:57
shape.
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04:16
We can violate your expectations on representation
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Možemo narušiti vaša očekivanja o prikazu,
04:20
-- what an image represents. What do you see here?
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o tome šta slika predstavlja.
Šta vidite ovde?
04:25
How many of you here see dolphins? Raise your hand
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Koliko vas vidi delfine ovde?
04:32
if you see dolphins. OK, those people who raised
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Podignite ruke ako vidite delfine.
Neka ostatak publike razgovara sa onima
koji su podigli ruke kasnije, važi?
koji su podigli ruke kasnije, važi?
04:36
their hands, afterwards, the rest of the audience,
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04:38
go talk to them, all right? Actually, this is the
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U stvari, ovo je najbolji primer
04:42
best example of priming by experience that I know.
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uticaja osnovnog iskustva koji poznajem.
04:46
If you are a child under the age of 10 who
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Ako ste dete ispod deset godina,
još neiskvareno,
još neiskvareno,
04:50
haven't been ruined yet, you will look at this
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pogledali biste ovu sliku
i videli delfine.
i videli delfine.
04:53
image and see dolphins. Now, some of you adults
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Neki odrasli ovde govore:
"Kakvi delfini? Kakvi delfini?"
"Kakvi delfini? Kakvi delfini?"
04:57
here are saying, "What dolphins? What dolphins?"
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04:59
But in fact, if you reversed the figure ground --
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U stvari, ako obrnete osnovu slike,
05:02
in other words, the dark areas here -- I forgot to
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to jest ako posmatrate tamna polja ovde,
zaboravio sam da tražim pokazivač,
05:05
ask for a pointer -- but if you reverse it, you'll
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ali ako obrnete,
videćete mnogo malih delfina.
videćete mnogo malih delfina.
05:07
see a whole series of little dolphins. By the way,
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05:10
if you're also a student at CalTech -- they also
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Uzgred, i studenti na Kalteku
vide samo delfine.
vide samo delfine.
05:13
tend to just see the dolphins. It's based on
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To se zasniva na iskustvu.
05:16
experience.
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05:20
Now, something like this can be used because this
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Ovako nešto može da se koristi,
05:23
is after all talk about design, too. This was
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jer je i ovde, na kraju krajeva,
reč o dizajnu.
reč o dizajnu.
05:25
done by Saatchi and Saatchi, and they actually got
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Ovo je uradio Sači i Sači,
a zapravo im je ovo prošlo u Australiji.
a zapravo im je ovo prošlo u Australiji.
05:28
away with this ad in Australia. So, if you look at
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05:31
this ad for beer, all those people are in sort of
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Ako pogledate ovu reklamu za pivo,
svi ovi ljudi su u nekom
izazovnom položaju.
izazovnom položaju.
05:36
provocative positions. But they got it passed, and
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Međutim, dobili su prolaz
05:39
actually won the Clio awards, so it's funny how you can do
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i čak su dobili Klijovu nagradu.
Dakle, interesantno je šta se sve može
sa ovim stvarima.
sa ovim stvarima.
05:43
these things.
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05:44
Remember that sort of, um. This is the joke I did
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Sećate se onoga...
Ovako sam se našalio
tokom glasanja na Floridi.
tokom glasanja na Floridi.
05:52
when the Florida ballot was going around. You
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05:56
know, count the dots for Gore; count the dots for
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Prebrojte tačkice za Gora, za Buša,
05:58
Bush; count 'em again ...
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hajde sad ponovo...
06:03
You can violate your expectations about
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Možete narušiti očekivanja o iskustvu.
06:06
experience. Here is an outside water fountain that
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Evo jedne spoljašnje fontane
06:13
I created with some friends of mine, but you can
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koju sam napravio sa prijateljima,
06:15
stop the water in drops and -- actually make all
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ali možete zaustaviti vodu i kapi
i učiniti da sve kapljice lebde.
06:18
the drops levitate. This is something we're
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Ovo izrađujemo za zabavne parkove
i tome slično.
i tome slično.
06:24
building for, you know, amusement parks and that
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06:26
kind of stuff.
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06:27
Now let's take a static image. Can you see this?
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Da vidimo sad ovu statičnu sliku.
Vidite ovo?
06:31
Do you see the middle section moving down and the
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Da li vidite da se sredina spušta,
a bočne strane se podižu?
a bočne strane se podižu?
06:34
outer sections moving up? It's completely static.
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Potpuno je statična.
06:38
It's a static image. How many people see this
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Statična slika.
Koliko ljudi vidi ovu iluziju?
06:40
illusion? It's completely static.
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A potpuno je statična.
06:46
Right. Now, when -- it's interesting that when we
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Zanimljivo je da, kada gledamo sliku,
06:49
look at an image we see, you know, color, depth,
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vidimo boju, dubinu, teksturu.
06:53
texture. And you can look at this whole scene and
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Možete da pogledate
i analizirate ovu scenu.
i analizirate ovu scenu.
06:56
analyze it. You can see the woman is in closer than
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Vidi se da je žena bliža od zida itd.
06:59
the wall and so forth. But the whole thing is
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Međutim, sve je u ravni.
07:01
actually flat. It's painted. It's trompe l'oeil.
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Naslikano je.
To je iluzionističko slikarstvo.
To je iluzionističko slikarstvo.
07:06
And it was such a good trompe l'oeil that people
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To je tako dobra obmana
07:08
got irritated when they tried to talk to the
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da su se ljudi čak i ljutili
kad bi pokušali da pričaju sa ženom,
kad bi pokušali da pričaju sa ženom,
07:10
woman and she wouldn't respond.
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a ona ne bi odgovarala.
07:15
Now, you can make design mistakes. Like this
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Možete napraviti i greške u dizajniranju,
kao što je ova zgrada u Njujorku.
kao što je ova zgrada u Njujorku.
07:19
building in New York. So that when you see it from
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Ako je pogledate sa ove strane
07:25
this side, it looks like the balconies tilt up,
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balkoni izgledaju nagnuti na gore,
07:28
and when you walk around to the other side it
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ali ako odete do druge strane,
07:30
looks like the balconies go down. So there are
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kao da su pognuti na dole.
Postoje, dakle, greške u dizajniranju
07:35
cases where you have mistakes in design that
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07:37
incorporate illusions.
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i uključuju iliziju.
07:38
Or, you take this particular un-retouched
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Uzmimo ovu neobrađenu fotografiju.
07:41
photograph. Now, interestingly enough, I get a lot
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Znate, interesantno je da dobijam
mnogo imejlova od ljudi
mnogo imejlova od ljudi
07:49
of emails from people who say, "Is there any
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u kojima me pitaju: "Da li ima
razlike u percepciji
razlike u percepciji
07:51
perceptual difference between males and females?"
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između muškaraca i žena?"
07:56
And I really say, "No." I mean, women can navigate
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Stvarno kažem: "Ne."
Žene se snalaze po svetu
isto kao i muškarci, a zašto i ne bi?
isto kao i muškarci, a zašto i ne bi?
07:58
through the world just as well as males can -- and
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08:01
why wouldn't they? However, this is the one
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Ipak, ovo je zapravo jedna iluzija
08:03
illusion that women can consistently do better
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u kojoj su žene
konstantno bolje od muškaraca
konstantno bolje od muškaraca
08:06
than males: in matching which head because they
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u uklapanju koja glava pripada kome,
08:09
rely on fashion cues. They can match the hat.
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jer se oslanjaju na modne zaključke;
uklopile su šešir.
uklopile su šešir.
08:15
Okay, now getting to a part -- I want to show
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Stigli smo do dela kada ću vam pokazati
08:17
design in illusions. I believe that the first
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dizajniranje u iluzijama.
Verujem da je prvi primer iluzije
08:20
example of illusions being used purposely was by
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namerno iskoristio da Vinči
08:25
da Vinci in this anamorphic image of an eye. So
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u ovoj anamorfnoj slici oka.
Kada gledate iz jednog malog ugla,
izgleda ovako.
izgleda ovako.
08:31
that when you saw from one little angle was like
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08:34
this. And this little technique got popular in the
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Ova tehnika je postala popularna
u 16. i 17. veku
u 16. i 17. veku
08:37
16th century and the 17th century to disguise
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08:40
hidden meanings, where you could flip the image and
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da bi se prikrila skrivena značenja,
gde ste mogli okrenuti sliku
08:43
see it from one little point of view like this.
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i iz nekog ugla je videti ovako.
08:48
But these are early incorporations of illusions
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Ovo su rani počeci uključivanja iluzija,
08:51
brought to -- sort of high point with Hans
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koji su dostigli neki nivo
08:53
Holbein's "Ambassadors." And Hans Holbein worked
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kod Hans Holbajnovih "Ambasadora".
Hans Holbajn je radio za Henrija VIII.
08:56
for Henry VIII. This was hung on a wall where you
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Ovo je visilo na zidu,
09:00
could walk down from the stair and you can see
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a kad se silazi stepenicama,
vidi se skrivena lobanja.
vidi se skrivena lobanja.
09:02
this hidden skull.
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09:06
All right, now I'm going to show you some
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Sada ću vam pokazati dizajnere
09:09
designers who work with illusions to give that
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koji se bave iluzijom
da bi proizveli efekat iznenađenja.
da bi proizveli efekat iznenađenja.
09:11
element of surprise. One of my favorites is Scott
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Jedan od mojih omiljenih je Skot Kim.
09:14
Kim. I worked with Scott to create some illusions
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Radio sam sa njim na stvaranju
iluzija za TED
iluzija za TED
09:18
for TED that I hope you will enjoy. We have one
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u kojima ćete, nadam se, uživati.
Evo jedne o TED-u i sreći.
09:23
here on TED and happiness.
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09:41
OK now. Arthur [Ganson] hasn't talked yet, but his is
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Artur Ganson još nije govorio,
ali imaće divan govor,
ali imaće divan govor,
09:44
going to be a delightful talk and he has some of
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a ima i neke zaista fantastične mašine.
09:47
his really fantastic machines outside. And so, we
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09:54
-- Scott created this wonderful tribute to Arthur
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Skot je stvorio ovo divno priznanje
Arturu Gansonu.
Arturu Gansonu.
09:57
Ganson.
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10:09
Well, there's analog and digital. Thought that
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Evo "analognog" i "digitalnog".
10:17
was appropriate here.
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Mislio sam da će to biti prikladno ovde.
10:23
And figure goes to ground.
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"Oblik" prelazi u "tlo".
10:38
And for the musicians.
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Ovo je za muzičare.
10:59
And of course, since happiness -- we want "joy to the
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Naravno, pošto je "sreća"...
želimo "sreću svetu".
11:01
world."
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11:11
Now, another great designer -- he's very well
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Još jedan sjajan dizajner,
veoma poznat u Japanu - Šigeo Fukuda.
11:13
known in Japan -- Shigeo Fukuda. And he just
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On je napravio sjajne stvari.
11:18
builds some fantastic things. This is simply
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Ovo je jednostavno neverovatno.
11:20
amazing. This is a pile of junk that when you view
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Ovo je gomila otpada
11:27
it from one particular angle, you see its
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koja, kada je gledate iz posebnog ugla,
11:36
reflection in the mirror as a perfect piano.
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vidite njen odsjaj u ogledalu
kao savršen klavir.
kao savršen klavir.
11:54
Pianist transforms to violinist.
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Pijanista...
se pretvara u violinistu.
12:07
This is really wild. This assemblage of forks,
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Ovo je stvarno ludo.
Skup viljuški, kašika, noževa
i raznoraznog pribora, zavaren.
i raznoraznog pribora, zavaren.
12:13
knives and spoons and various cutlery, welded
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12:16
together. It gives a shadow of a motorcycle. You learn
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Daje senku motora.
U poslu koji radim naučite
12:29
something in the sort of thing that I do, which
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12:32
is there are people out there with a lot of time
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da ima mnogo ljudi
koji imaju puno vremena.
koji imaju puno vremena.
12:34
on their hands.
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12:39
Ken Knowlton does wonderful composite images, like
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Ken Nolton stvara divne kompozicije,
kao što je Žak Kusto od školjki -
12:45
creating Jacques Cousteau out of seashells --
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12:47
un-retouched seashells, but just by rearranging
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neobrađenih školjki,
samo njihovim razmeštajem.
samo njihovim razmeštajem.
12:49
them. He did Einstein out of dice because, after
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Uradio je Ajnštajna od kocki,
jer, na kraju krajeva,
jer, na kraju krajeva,
12:53
all, Einstein said, "God does not play dice with
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Ajnštajn je rekao: "Bog se ne kocka
sa univerzumom."
sa univerzumom."
12:56
the universe." Bert Herzog out of un-retouched
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Bert Hercog od neprerađene tastature,
13:01
keyboards. Will Shortz, crossword puzzle. John
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Vil Šorc - ukrštene reči.
13:06
Cederquist does these wonderful trompe l'oeil
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Džon Siderkvist pravi
ove divne iluzionističke ormane.
ove divne iluzionističke ormane.
13:10
cabinets.
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13:12
Now, I'm going to skip ahead since I'm sort of running
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Sada ću malo da preskočim
jer mi ističe vreme.
jer mi ističe vreme.
13:14
[behind]. I want to show you quickly what I've
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Želim brzo da vam pokažem
šta sam napravio,
šta sam napravio,
13:17
created, some new type of illusions. I've done
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neke nove tipove iluzija.
13:22
something with taking the Pixar-type illusions. So
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Uradio sam nešto tako što sam uzeo
iluzije tipa Piksara.
iluzije tipa Piksara.
13:26
you see these kids the same size here, running
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Vidite ovu decu;
ona su iste veličine ovde,
ona su iste veličine ovde,
13:30
down the hall. The two table tops of the same size.
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trče niz hodnik.
Ploče ova dva stola su iste veličine.
13:33
They're looking out two directions at once. You
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Ona gledaju u dva pravca istovremeno.
13:37
have a larger piece fitting in with a smaller. And
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Ovde se veći komad uklapa u manji.
13:44
that's something for you to think about, all
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Eto nečega za razmišljanje, važi?
13:46
right? So you see larger pieces fitting in within
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Vidite veće komade
kako se uklapaju u manje.
kako se uklapaju u manje.
13:48
smaller pieces here. Does everyone see that? Which
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Da li svi vide to?
13:52
is impossible. You can see the two kids are
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Što je nemoguće.
Videte da dvoje dece istovremeno
gledaju u dva različita pravca.
gledaju u dva različita pravca.
13:57
looking out simultaneously out of two different
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13:59
directions at once. Now can you believe these two
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Da li sad verujete da su dve ploče
iste veličine i oblika?
iste veličine i oblika?
14:06
table tops are the same size and shape? They are.
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Jesu. Kad biste ih izmerili, bile bi iste.
14:10
So, if you measured them, they would be. And as I say,
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Kao što rekoh, ove dve figure
su iste veličine i oblika.
su iste veličine i oblika.
14:16
those two figures are identical in size and shape.
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14:22
And it's interesting, by doing this in this sort
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Zanimljivo je koliko su,
prikazane ovako izražajno,
prikazane ovako izražajno,
14:26
of rendered fashion, how much stronger the
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iluzije moćnije.
14:29
illusions are. Any case, I hope this has brought
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U svakom slučaju, nadam se da vam je ovo
donelo malo radosti i sreće,
donelo malo radosti i sreće,
14:31
you a little joy and happiness, and if you're
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14:33
interested in seeing more cool effects, see me
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a ako vas zanima da vidite
još zanimljivih efekata,
još zanimljivih efekata,
14:36
outside. I'd be happy to show you lots of things.
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priđite mi napolju; biće mi drago
da vam pokažem puno stvari.
da vam pokažem puno stvari.
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Al Seckel - Master of visual illusionsAl Seckel explored how eye tricks can reveal the way the brain processes visual information -- or fails to do so. Among his other accomplishments: He co-created the Darwin Fish.
Why you should listen
Al Seckel took great delight in visual illusions and the brain mechanics that they reveal. The author of many books and articles, he also designed interactive museum exhibits around the world that allow visitors to play with illusions and understand how they work.
A noted lecturer, he was a member of the Edge Foundation, a founder of the Southern California Skeptics, a campaigner against the teaching of creationism in public schools -- and co-creator of the Darwin Fish. Seckel died in 2015. Watch his 2010 talk from TEDxUSC: "[Y]Our Mind's Eye" >>
Note: A previous version of this biography described Seckel as a "cognitive neuroscientist," which was not accurate.
Al Seckel | Speaker | TED.com