TEDWomen 2017
Joan Blades and John Gable: Free yourself from your filter bubbles
琼·布雷兹和约翰·盖博: 打破自己的过滤气泡
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琼·布雷兹和约翰·盖博想让你跟自己不同政治阵营的人交朋友。他俩分属不同政治阵营，却也是多年的好友，他们懂得诚实对话的价值，即便对方的观点你无法立即认同。他们讲述了该如何在不同政治派别的人之间搭建桥梁，创造机会让他们彼此倾听，彼此关心（也许，还能发展出长久的友谊）。
Joan Blades - Domestic peace advocate
Joan Blades shares a simple six-person conversation guide that helps people with differences get to know and even like each other. Full bioJohn Gable - Technologist, activist
John Gable is the founder and CEO of AllSides.com, which builds better understanding across divides. Full bio
Joan Blades shares a simple six-person conversation guide that helps people with differences get to know and even like each other. Full bioJohn Gable - Technologist, activist
John Gable is the founder and CEO of AllSides.com, which builds better understanding across divides. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Joan Blades: Do you have
politically diverse friends?
politically diverse friends?
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琼·布雷兹：你有政见不同的朋友吗？
00:15
What do you talk about with them?
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你会跟他们聊些什么？
00:18
I'm a progressive; I live
in a town full of progressives,
in a town full of progressives,
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我是一个进步派，
我生活的地方全是进步派，
我生活的地方全是进步派，
00:20
and 15 years ago, I didn't have
any conservative friends.
any conservative friends.
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15年前，我的朋友中
没有一个是保守党。
没有一个是保守党。
00:24
Now I have a wonderful mix of friends,
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而现在我的朋友各种各样，
00:27
and they include John.
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包括约翰。
00:29
John Gable: I am not a progressive.
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约翰·盖博：我不是进步派。
00:31
I'm a Republican who grew up
in a Republican family
in a Republican family
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我是共和党人，
出生在一个共和党家庭，
出生在一个共和党家庭，
00:34
in the conservative South,
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来自保守的南方，
甚至一直在共和党做事，
之前在老家，后来到了全国级别。
之前在老家，后来到了全国级别。
00:35
and even worked in Republican politics,
locally and at the national level.
locally and at the national level.
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00:39
But the last 24 years,
I've been in technology
I've been in technology
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但在过去的24年间，
我从事技术工作，
我从事技术工作，
00:42
and living in a very progressive area.
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生活在进步派地区。
00:44
So I have a lot of progressive friends,
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因此我有许多进步派的朋友，
包括琼。
00:46
including Joan.
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00:48
JB: I was born in Berkeley, California,
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JB：我出生在加州的伯克利，
00:51
a notoriously progressive college town.
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众所周知，那里是
进步主义盛行的大学城。
进步主义盛行的大学城。
00:54
And I live there now.
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我现在也住在那儿。
00:56
In 1998, six months into the Monica
Lewinsky-Clinton impeachment scandal,
Lewinsky-Clinton impeachment scandal,
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1998年，莱温斯基和克林顿的丑闻
进行到第6个月。
进行到第6个月。
01:02
I helped cofound MoveOn.org
with a one-sentence petition:
with a one-sentence petition:
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我参与共建了MoveOn.org网站，
有一句请愿的话：
有一句请愿的话：
01:07
"Congress must immediately
censure the president
censure the president
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“国会必须立即谴责总统，
01:10
and move on to pressing issues
facing the nation."
facing the nation."
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并转而处理国家面临的
更紧迫问题。”
更紧迫问题。”
01:13
Now, that was actually
a very unifying petition in many ways.
a very unifying petition in many ways.
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从很多方面来看，
那是一句非常有凝聚力的谴责。
那是一句非常有凝聚力的谴责。
01:17
You could love Clinton or hate Clinton
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无论你对克林顿是爱是恨，
01:19
and agree that the best thing
for the country was to move on.
for the country was to move on.
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都会认同，对于国家而言，
最好的方法就是继续前进。
最好的方法就是继续前进。
01:23
As the leader of MoveOn,
I saw the polarization just continue.
I saw the polarization just continue.
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作为MoveOn的领头人，
我看到两极分化在持续。
我看到两极分化在持续。
01:28
And I found myself wondering
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我不禁在想，
01:31
why I saw things so differently
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为什么我看待事情的方式，
01:34
than many people
in other parts of the country.
in other parts of the country.
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跟这个国家其他地方的人会不一样。
01:36
So in 2005, when I had an opportunity
to get together with grassroots leaders
to get together with grassroots leaders
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于是在2005年，当我有机会
接触一些草根领袖
接触一些草根领袖
我们政见不同，
01:42
across the political divide,
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01:45
I grabbed it.
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我抓住了这个机会。
01:47
And I became friends with a lot of people
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我跟很多人成为了朋友，
之前可能都没有机会说话。
01:49
I never had a chance to talk to before.
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01:53
And that included leadership
in the Christian Coalition,
in the Christian Coalition,
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包括基督徒联盟的领导层，
01:56
often seen as on the right
the way MoveOn is seen as on the left.
the way MoveOn is seen as on the left.
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他们通常被认为是右派，
而MoveON被认为是左派。
而MoveON被认为是左派。
02:00
And this lead to me
showing up on Capitol Hill
showing up on Capitol Hill
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于是我去了国会山，
跟基督徒联盟的一个领导人，
他是我朋友，
他是我朋友，
02:04
with one of the Christian Coalition
leaders, my friend,
leaders, my friend,
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02:08
to lobby for net neutrality.
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一起游说关于网络中立的问题。
02:10
That was powerful.
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非常有效。
我们扭转了局势。
02:11
We turned heads.
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02:13
So this work was transformational for me.
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这件事给我带来了巨大的转变。
02:17
And I found myself wondering:
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我开始思考：
02:20
How could vast numbers of people
have the opportunity
have the opportunity
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如何才能让大众有机会
02:24
to really connect with people
that have very different views?
that have very different views?
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去跟那些与自己有不同观点的人
真正建立联系？
真正建立联系？
02:28
JG: I was born Oneida, Tennessee,
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JG：我出生在田纳西州的奥奈达，
02:31
right across the state border
from a small coal mining town,
from a small coal mining town,
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穿过州界线，有一个产煤的小镇，
02:35
Stearns, Kentucky.
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肯塔基州的斯特恩斯。
02:37
And I lived there
for the first few years of my life,
for the first few years of my life,
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我出生后头几年都在那儿生活，
后来我又搬到了另一个小镇，
肯塔基州的法兰克福。
肯塔基州的法兰克福。
02:39
before moving to another small town,
Frankfort, Kentucky.
Frankfort, Kentucky.
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基本上我是在美国的小镇长大的，
02:42
Basically, I grew up
in small-town America,
in small-town America,
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那里以保守著称。
02:44
conservative at its heart.
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02:46
Now, Stearns and Berkeley --
they're a little different.
they're a little different.
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当然，斯特恩斯跟伯克利，
还是有那么一点点区别的。
还是有那么一点点区别的。
02:50
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
02:53
So in the '90s I moved out west
to a progressive area
to a progressive area
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90年代我搬到了西部，
进步主义的地区，
进步主义的地区，
02:57
to work in technology --
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在技术行业工作，
02:58
worked at Microsoft, worked at Netscape.
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在微软，在网景。
03:00
I actually became the product manager lead
for Netscape Navigator,
for Netscape Navigator,
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后来做了网景导航的
产品经理负责人，
产品经理负责人，
网景导航是第一款主流的浏览器。
03:04
the first popular web browser.
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03:06
Now in the early days of the internet,
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在因特网发展早期，
我们都被一个愿景激励和打动：
03:08
we were just moved
and inspired by a vision:
and inspired by a vision:
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03:11
when we're connected to all
these different people around the world
these different people around the world
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当我们可以将全世界不同的人，
不同的想法都连接起来的时候，
03:14
and all these different ideas,
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我们就能做出伟大的决定，
03:16
we'll be able to make great decisions,
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就能对世界的多姿多彩
03:17
and we'll be able to appreciate each other
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心怀感恩之心。
03:20
for the beautiful diversity
that the whole world has to offer.
that the whole world has to offer.
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20年前，我还进行过一次演讲，
03:23
Now I also, 20 years ago, gave a speech
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说事情可能并不会这样发展，
03:24
saying it might not work out that way,
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03:27
that we might actually be trained
to discriminate against each other
to discriminate against each other
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我们可能会被训练用新的方法
03:31
in new ways.
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来区别对待对方。
03:34
So what happened?
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为什么会这样？
03:36
It's not like we just woke up one day
and decided to hate each other more.
and decided to hate each other more.
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并不是说我们某天醒来，
一拍脑袋决定更加恨彼此。
一拍脑袋决定更加恨彼此。
03:40
Here's what happened.
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情况是这样的。
03:42
There's just too much noise --
too many people, too many ideas --
too many people, too many ideas --
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只不过有太多杂音，太多的人，
太多的主意，
太多的主意，
03:45
so we use technology
to filter it out a little bit.
to filter it out a little bit.
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我们要利用技术过滤掉一些。
03:47
And what happens?
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结果会怎样呢？
03:49
It lets in ideas I already agree with.
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它会让我已经认同的观点进入。
03:52
It lets in the popular ideas,
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让最主流的观点进入，
03:54
it lets in people just like me
who think just like me.
who think just like me.
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让跟我类似的人，
跟我思维方式相同的人进入。
跟我思维方式相同的人进入。
03:56
That sounds kind of good, right?
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听起来很不错，对吗？
03:58
Well, not necessarily,
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然而并不一定，
04:01
because two very scary things happen
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因为我们的世界观如此狭隘的话，
04:04
when we have such narrow worldviews.
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会发生2件很可怕的事情。
04:06
First, we become more extreme
in our beliefs.
in our beliefs.
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首先，我们对自己所相信的事
会变得偏激。
会变得偏激。
04:11
Second, we become less tolerant
of anybody who's different than we are.
of anybody who's different than we are.
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其次，我们对于跟自己不同的人
会越来越不宽容。
会越来越不宽容。
04:18
Does this sound familiar?
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听起来是不是有点熟悉？
04:20
Does this sound like modern America?
The modern world?
The modern world?
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这还是现代的美国？现代的世界吗？
04:24
Well, the good news is
that technology is changing,
that technology is changing,
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但好消息是，技术在变化，
04:26
and it could change for the better.
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向着好的方向变化。
这就是我创办AllSides.com的原因，
04:28
And that's, in fact,
why I started AllSides.com --
why I started AllSides.com --
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04:31
to create technologies and services
to free us from these filter bubbles.
to free us from these filter bubbles.
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提供技术和服务，
来打破这些过滤气泡。
来打破这些过滤气泡。
04:35
The very first thing we did was create
technology that identifies bias,
technology that identifies bias,
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我们首先发明了一项技术，
来分辨各种倾向，
来分辨各种倾向，
04:38
so we could show different
perspectives side by side
perspectives side by side
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把不同的观点放在一起展示，
04:42
to free us from the filter
bubbles of news media.
bubbles of news media.
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帮我们打破新媒体的过滤气泡。
04:46
And then I met Joan.
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后来我遇到了琼。
04:49
JB: So I met John outside
of Washington, DC,
of Washington, DC,
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JB：我是在华盛顿郊外遇到的约翰，
04:52
with an idealistic group
of cross-partisan bridge builders,
of cross-partisan bridge builders,
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他跟一群理想主义者在一起，
希望搭建跨党派交流的桥梁，
希望搭建跨党派交流的桥梁，
04:58
and we wanted to re-weave
the fabric of our communities.
the fabric of our communities.
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我们都希望重塑社区的结构。
05:02
We believe that our differences
can be a strength,
can be a strength,
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我们相信，我们的不同
能成为一种力量，
能成为一种力量，
05:06
that our values can be complimentary
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我们的价值观都值得赞美，
05:09
and that we have to overcome the fight
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我们要终结对抗，
05:12
so that we can honor everyone's values
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才能尊重彼此的价值观，
05:14
and not lose any of our own.
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同时也不必放弃自己的价值观。
05:17
I went for this wonderful walk with John,
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我跟约翰边走边聊，很开心，
05:19
where I started learning
about the work he was doing
about the work he was doing
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我开始了解他所做的事情，
打破信息过滤的气泡。
05:21
to pierce the filter bubble.
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05:23
It was powerful;
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很有力量，
05:25
it was brilliant.
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天才的想法。
05:27
Living in separate narratives is not good.
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生活在孤立的舆论中并不好。
05:30
We can't even have a conversation
or do collaborative problem-solving
or do collaborative problem-solving
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如果我们不分享同一件事，
我们甚至无法进行对话，
我们甚至无法进行对话，
05:34
when we don't share the same facts.
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或者合作来解决问题。
05:38
JG: So one thing you take away from today
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JG：所以今天学到的一件事就是，
05:40
is if Joan Blades asks you
to go on a walk,
to go on a walk,
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如果琼·布雷兹叫你去散步，
05:43
go on that walk.
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你一定要去。
05:44
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
05:45
It changed things. It really changed
the way I was thinking about things.
the way I was thinking about things.
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这真的带来了改变，
改变了我思考问题的方式。
改变了我思考问题的方式。
把我们从过滤气泡中解救出来，
05:49
To free ourselves from the filter bubbles,
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除了信息过滤气泡，
05:51
we can't just think about
information filter bubbles,
information filter bubbles,
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还有人际关系和社交的过滤气泡。
05:54
but also relationship
and social filter bubbles.
and social filter bubbles.
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05:56
You see, we human beings -- we're not
nearly as smart as we think we are.
nearly as smart as we think we are.
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我们人类，并没有
自认为的那么聪明。
自认为的那么聪明。
我们大部分时间
都不会理智地做决定。
都不会理智地做决定。
06:00
We don't generally make
decisions intellectually.
decisions intellectually.
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而是凭感觉，凭直觉，
06:02
We make them emotionally, intuitively,
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然后用我们又大又老的大脑，
06:04
and then we use our big old brains
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为所有事情找一个合理的解释。
06:06
to rationalize anything
we want to rationalize.
we want to rationalize.
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06:08
We're not really like Vulcans
like Mr. Spock,
like Mr. Spock,
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我们不像瓦肯人，不像史波克先生，
06:12
we're more like bold cowboys
like Captain Kirk,
like Captain Kirk,
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而更像柯克船长那样的冒失牛仔，
06:15
or passionate idealists like Dr. McCoy.
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或者像麦科伊博士那样
充满激情的理想主义者。
充满激情的理想主义者。
06:19
OK, for those of y'all who prefer
the new "Star Trek" crew,
the new "Star Trek" crew,
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好吧，知道你们这些人更喜欢
新《星际迷航》的船员，
新《星际迷航》的船员，
满足你们。
06:22
here you go.
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（笑声）
06:23
(Laughter)
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JB：别忘了坚强的女性们！
06:24
JB: Don't forget the strong women!
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06:26
JG: Come on, strong women. OK.
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JG：好吧，坚强的女性们。来了。
06:28
JB: All right.
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JB：好的。
06:29
John and I are both "Star Trek" fans.
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约翰和我都是《星际迷航》的粉丝。
谁会不爱那么乐观的未来呢？
06:31
What's not to love about a future
with that kind of optimism?
with that kind of optimism?
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06:36
JG: And having a good future in mind
is a big deal -- very important.
is a big deal -- very important.
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JG：对未来充满憧憬
是一件大事，非常重要。
是一件大事，非常重要。
知道问题出在哪儿，也非常重要。
06:40
And understanding what the problem is
is very important.
is very important.
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但是我们必须要做点什么。
06:42
But we have to do something.
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我们要怎么做呢？
06:44
So what do we do?
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06:45
It's actually not that hard.
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其实也没那么难。
我们要增加生活的多样性，
06:46
We have to add diversity to our lives --
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06:48
not just information,
but relationship diversity.
but relationship diversity.
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不仅仅是信息的多样性，
还有人际关系。
还有人际关系。
06:52
And by diversity,
I mean big "D" diversity,
I mean big "D" diversity,
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我说的多样性，
本身也是非常“多样”的，
本身也是非常“多样”的，
06:54
not just racial and gender,
which are very important,
which are very important,
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不仅在种族和性别方面，
这2者当然非常重要，
这2者当然非常重要，
但还包括，
06:57
but also ...
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06:59
diversity of age, like young and old;
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年龄的多样性，
比如年轻的和年老的，
比如年轻的和年老的，
07:02
rural and urban;
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农村的和城市的，
07:04
liberal and conservative;
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自由的和保守的，
07:07
in the US, Democrat and Republican.
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就美国而言，
也就是民主党人和共和党人。
也就是民主党人和共和党人。
07:10
Now, one of the great examples
of somebody freeing themselves
of somebody freeing themselves
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我这儿有一个非常好的例子，
她顺利打破了自己的过滤气泡，
07:13
from their filter bubbles
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07:14
and getting a more diverse life
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让自己的生活更加多样化，
07:16
is, once again, next to me -- Joan.
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还是坐在我身边的这位，琼！
07:19
JB: So the question is:
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JB：问大家一个问题，
07:21
Who among you has had
relationships lost or harmed
relationships lost or harmed
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你们当中有谁，因为政治观点、
宗教信仰或者其他观点的不同，
宗教信仰或者其他观点的不同，
07:25
due to differences in politics,
religion or whatever?
religion or whatever?
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而导致关系受损甚至终结？
07:29
Raise your hands.
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请举一下手。
07:31
Yeah.
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好吧。
近一年来我跟许多人交流过，
07:33
This year I have talked to so many people
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07:35
that have experienced that kind of loss.
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他们都有过类似的经历。
07:41
I've seen tears well up in people's eyes
as they talk about family members
as they talk about family members
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谈起自己形同陌路的家人，
他们眼里噙满了泪水。
07:45
from whom they're estranged.
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07:48
Living Room Conversations were designed
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“起居室对话”设计的初衷
07:51
to begin to heal political
and personal differences.
and personal differences.
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是为了弥合政治和个性上的不同。
07:57
They're simple conversations
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形式很简单，
07:59
where two friends with different
viewpoints each invite two friends
viewpoints each invite two friends
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2个持有不同观点的朋友，
各自再邀请2位朋友，
各自再邀请2位朋友，
08:04
for structured conversation,
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来进行交谈，
08:05
where everyone's agreed
to some simple ground rules:
to some simple ground rules:
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每个人都遵守几项基本原则：
08:08
curiosity, listening,
respect, taking turns --
respect, taking turns --
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好奇，倾听，尊重，轮流发言，
08:12
everything we learned
in kindergarten, right?
in kindergarten, right?
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这些是我们在幼儿园
就学会了的，对吗？
就学会了的，对吗？
08:14
Really easy.
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非常简单。
08:16
So by the time you're talking about
the topic you've agreed to talk about,
the topic you've agreed to talk about,
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你们讨论着事先定好的话题，
随着交流的继续，
随着交流的继续，
08:20
you actually have the sense that,
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你慢慢感觉到，
08:22
"You know, I kind of like this person,"
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“其实，我还挺喜欢这个人的，”
于是你倾听的方式都改变了。
08:24
and you listen to each other differently.
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08:26
That's kind of a human condition;
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这就是人类的特点，
08:28
we listen differently
to people we care about.
to people we care about.
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对于自己在乎的人，
我们会更愿意倾听。
我们会更愿意倾听。
08:31
And then there's reflection
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然后你可能有新的想法，
08:33
and possibly next steps.
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交谈会继续下去。
08:36
This is a deep listening practice;
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这就是深度倾听的一个实践，
08:38
it's never a debate.
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并不是要辩论什么。
08:41
And that's incredibly powerful.
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难以置信的有效。
08:43
These conversations
in our own living rooms
in our own living rooms
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这些交谈就发生在
我们自己家的起居室，
我们自己家的起居室，
08:47
with people who have different viewpoints
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交谈对象是拥有不同观点的人，
08:50
are an incredible adventure.
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这真的是一场不可思议的冒险。
08:52
We rediscover that we can respect
and even love people
and even love people
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我们发现，对于跟我们不同的人，
08:55
that are different from us.
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我们也可以尊重，甚至可以去爱。
08:58
And it's powerful.
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非常有力量。
09:01
JG: So, what are you curious about?
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JG：那么，你们对什么感到好奇？
09:04
JB: What's the conversation
you yearn to have?
you yearn to have?
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JB：你们渴望进行一场
什么样的对话？
什么样的对话？
09:07
JG: Let's do this together.
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JG：我们一起努力吧。
09:09
Together.
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一起努力。
09:10
JB: Yes.
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JB：好的！
09:11
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
09:12
(Applause)
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（掌声）
09:15
JB and JG: Thank you.
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JB&JG：谢谢大家。
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Joan Blades - Domestic peace advocateJoan Blades shares a simple six-person conversation guide that helps people with differences get to know and even like each other.
Why you should listen
Joan Blades is a co-founder of LivingRoomConversations.org, an open-source effort to rebuild respectful civil discourse across ideological, cultural and party lines while embracing our core-shared values. She is also a co-founder of MomsRising.org and MoveOn.org. She is a co-author of The Custom-Fit Workplace: Choose When, Where and How to Work and Boost Your Bottom Line, winner of a Nautilus book award in 2011, and The Motherhood Manifesto, which won the Ernesta Drinker Ballard Book Prize in 2007.
Last century, Blades was a software entrepreneur, a co-founder of Berkeley Systems, best known for the Flying Toaster and the game "You Don't Know Jack." A mediator (attorney) by training and inclination, she is a nature lover, artist and true believer in the power of citizens and our need to rebuild respectful civil discourse while embracing our core shared values.
Joan Blades | Speaker | TED.com
John Gable - Technologist, activist
John Gable is the founder and CEO of AllSides.com, which builds better understanding across divides.
Why you should listen
John Gable offers a unique combination of technology and politics. He started in tech 24 years ago by joining the original Microsoft Office team, then became the PM team lead for Netscape Navigator. He also led ZoneAlarm at Check Point Software, and cofounded and sold Kavi Corp. Gable was previously a Republican operative, working for three Senate majority leaders (Howard Baker, Trent Lott, Mitch McConnell), the Republican National Committee and George H.W. Bush.
Now Gable and his multi-partisan AllSides.com team use technology to present news and issues from many angles to allow people to make up their own minds. Their mission: "free people from filter bubbles so they can better understand the world and each other."
John Gable | Speaker | TED.com