Shonda Rhimes and Cyndi Stivers: The future of storytelling
숀다 라임스(Shonda Rhimes)와 신디 스타이버스(Cyndi Stivers): 스토리텔링의 미래
With the runaway success of shows like Scandal and Grey’s Anatomy, Shonda Rhimes has become one of Hollywood’s most powerful icons. Full bioCyndi Stivers - Encourager-in-chief, TED Residency
Cyndi Stivers curates special events for TED and often serves as a board member, adviser, business strategist and startup coach. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
스토리텔링의 미래입니다.
going to change about storytelling.
바뀌지 않을 것들에 대해 얘기해보죠.
What's never going to change.
절대 바뀌지 않을 것들이요.
are never going to change,
꼭 있어야 겠죠.
and exchange their stories
that feel universal,
a compelling need to watch stories,
that tell each one of us
are never going to change.
절대 바뀌지 않을 것 같아요.
is never going to change.
절대 바뀌지 않을 거에요.
for this conversation,
이 시간을 준비하면서,
on "Grey's Anatomy" --
this indelible memory she had
얘기해 주더라구요.
with any of the executives,
to read for your scripts,
was the full range of humanity,
to retraining the studio executives,
한수 가르쳐 줬을 뿐 아니라,
of the American TV audience.
바꿔 놨다고 말했어요.
not yet realize that it needs?
인식하지 못하고 있는 것들이 있나요?
we're anywhere near there yet.
너무 이르다고 생각해요.
like the real world in actuality.
a bunch of actors
trying to make a point,
to do anything special.
계획한 것도 아니었어요.
that that was new, different or weird.
또 별나다고 생각하지 않았거든요.
because I thought they were interesting
불러 모았을 뿐인데
was completely surprising to everybody --
I want to see play these parts.
소화해 내는지 보고 싶었어요.
they look like if they read.
that happens is
through another lens,
normally in charge of things,
사람이 아니라면
this big machine that you run,
큰 조직을 책임지는
last year when she gave her talk --
아시는 것처럼, 작년에도 강연하셨죠.
is going to happen as we go on?
involved in producing these shows.
비용이 아주 많이 들잖아요.
have gone and gotten greatly democratized,
많이 대중화가 됐지만,
who rent the audience to advertisers
광고주들에게 홍보를 하는 사람들에게도
now that anyone can be a storyteller?
방송사업에는 어떤 변화가 있을까요?
that's happening is amazing.
분명히 혼란스러워요.
sort of an equalizer happening,
can make something, is wonderful.
정말 좋은 거죠.
that you can't find the good work now.
약간의 부담은 있어요.
417 dramas on television right now
드라마가 방영되고 있는데,
because everybody can make something.
질이 안 좋은 것들이 많아요.
있다는 것과 같죠.
that many good painters.
많지 않잖아요.
the good shows,
one tiny show over here on AMC
becomes much harder.
찾기 힘든 것과 같잖아요.
the great webisode and who made this,
만들었는지 찾아보면서,
about the poor critics
watching everything.
모든 방송들을 봐야하는 사람들이요.
are getting more and more vast,
for everybody in the audience
좋은 방송을 찾는 건
winnowed down to just who you are,
얻을 수 있는 것들과 달리
you can watch, television shows on --
시청이 가능한 모든 방송들이에요.
wider and wider and wider.
점점 더 어려워 질테고,
it'll collapse a little bit
will be network television.
있는지도 모르겠어요.
a lot of money around right now.
something exciting about it.
there's something exciting about it.
아주 흥분되는 일이죠.
there's something exciting about it.
아주 흥분되는 일이겠죠.
with characters from all over the world
for everybody at the same time
방송이 있다는 건
that television can now take on
국제적 감각을 갖춘다는게
here's our American audience.
여기 미국 시청자들을 위해,
out into the world
about the fact that America is not it.
고려하지 않고 말이죠.
and everything, but it's not i.
그건 아니죠.
taking into account the fact
꼭 명심해야 할 것은
of these other places in the world
while we're telling stories.
that the world is a universal place,
우리의 이야기를 즐길 수 있다는
launched "Scandal" in 2012,
처음 선보였을 때
of support on Twitter
'좋아요'를 눌렀어요.
tricks up your sleeve
will happen in that regard?
coming out this summer.
"끝나지 않은 이야기"를 준비하면서
to be able to do them in time.
할 수 있을지는 모르겠어요.
that we would live-tweet our show
that would be fun.
해 보려는 것이었어요.
would start to live-tweet along with us.
예상하지 못했죠.
to be a part of it,
사람들을 한데 모으려고,
on Twitter together
to make that possible
to make people feel engaged
느낄 수 있게 하는 새로운 방법을 찾는 것은
all those different people making stories
이야기를 만들지만
are going to break through
storytellers will get paid?
돈을 벌거라고 생각하세요?
with this concept as well.
그에 대한 고민이 많아요.
to watch this particular person's shows,
선택해 시청하려고 하는데,
a passport to Shondaland. Right?
안그런가요?
That's a lot more work for me.
전 할 일이 훨씬 많아졌어요.
going to be different ways,
a lot of content creators
많은 컨텐츠 제작자들은
in being distributors,
정말 푹 빠져있어요.
that I deserve to get paid for it,
the people who work with me,
and they're all making a living.
삶을 꾸려나갈 수 있게 말이죠.
is getting harder and harder.
어려워 지는건 사실이에요.
어떻게 생각하세요?
가상현실, 증강현실 같은 ...
that you can't really binge-watch,
앞으로 돌려서 볼 수 없는게
of those for storytelling?
어떤 영향이 있을까요?
and paying attention.
신경을 많이 썼죠.
think of them for gaming,
비디오 게임이나,
for things like action,
a sense of intimacy
and have a conversation with Fitz,
'피츠'와 대화를 나눈다든지,
while Fitz talks to you,
거기 앉아서 듣는 것 말이죠.
피츠제럴드 그랜트 대통령이
a choice that he makes,
당신에게 말해 준다면,
a television screen,
and he's having this conversation.
그와 대화를 나누는 거죠.
from a television screen.
who's about to execute somebody.
'허크'와 같이 있다고 상상해보세요.
to another character very rapidly,
and tells you, you know,
당신한테 말을 하는 거죠.
and why he's afraid and nervous.
그가 왜 긴장하고 겁이 나 있는지 말이죠.
and I'm not sure it would work,
그게 잘 될진 모르겠지만,
of something like that
그것이 시청자들에게 무엇을 의미하는지
would be interesting,
아주 재밌을 것 같아요.
the people who watch my shows,
12세에서 75세 사이 여성인데
in there for them.
the input of the audience?
can actually go up to a certain point
I'm going to choose my own adventure.
or I'm going to run off with --
아니면 누구하고 같이
your-own-adventure stories.
I want to be in control of everything,
하고 싶어서가 아니라
or I'm watching a movie,
that a story is not as good
다른 분들의 작품 속 인물들의
over exactly what's going to happen
좋아질 수가 없거든요.
what I wanted to happen to Walter White,
직접 말할 수 있다면 저는 좋겠지만,
is not the same, and it's not as powerful.
감동도 덜 할거에요.
of how "The Sopranos" ends,
정할 수 있다면 좋겠죠.
that's nice and satisfying,
멋진 마지막 장면이 나오겠지만,
and it's not the same emotional impact.
감동도 덜 할꺼에요.
what that might be.
계속 상상하게 되는데요.
제가 잠깐 딴 생각을 했네요.
I don't get to imagine it,
제가 상상하지 않는다는 거죠.
to know that somebody else has told.
큰 감동을 느낄 수 있는 거죠.
decide that, you know,
예를 들어,
마지막까지 살아 남기라도 한다면,
and you can walk away debating
but in a very different way.
그 방식은 아주 다를거에요.
sell the right to sit there
than storytelling.
제 생각엔 더 맞는 것 같은데요.
야영장 모닥불이라고 할 수 있겠죠.
as a form of storytelling,
what about the super-super --
그럼 이건 어떻게 생각하세요.
getting shorter, shorter, shorter.
짧아지는 추세 말이죠.
now has something it calls shows
it sounds like commercials.
하는 것 처럼 말이죠.
really wonderful about it.
are watching television on their phones,
most of the product is coming in,
휴대전화를 통해 소개되니까,
for shorter periods of content,
사람들에게 돈을 더 받을 수 있다면,
a way to make a lot more money.
더 많은 돈을 벌 방법을 찾았을 거에요.
to make it and put it out there.
a short attention span, like my daughter,
주의가 산만한 14살이라면,
that's what you want to make,
또 그런걸 만들고 싶을거에요.
and it actually feels like narrative,
내러티브와 같이 느껴지기도 하고,
no matter what you do.
사람들을 화면에 고정시킬 거에요.
going to consume entertainment,
오락물들을 즐길지 궁금해서요.
the algorithmic robot overlords
알고리즘으로 움직이는 로봇 군주들이
what they've already done.
and make people well-rounded citizens?
올바른 시민으로 키울 수 있을까요?
than how somebody else might do it.
how we're going to do it in the future.
정말 잘 모르겠어요.
the subject of all of my experiments.
항상 제 실험 대상이에요.
what I call "Amish summers"
부르는 걸 하고 있어요.
all their computers and stuff
다 모아서 치워 놔요.
until they settle down
진정할 때까지 기다렸다가,
in watching our own thing,
that we're being fed, sometimes,
your own opinions
골라 듣게 되고
more and more right about yourself.
갇히게 되는 것이죠.
돌아가는지 알 수 있을까요?
maybe it'll all explode,
정말 폭발해 버릴 수도 있어요.
just become more idiotic.
어리석어 질 수 있겠죠.
any corrective that you could do
그럼 대본이나 소설은 어떤 식으로
that television has the power
지식을 전달하는 강력한 힘이 있다는
about medical shows.
공부도 하게 되죠.
87 percent of people
87% 정도의 사람들이
about medicine and medical facts
의학 드라마 같은 방송들을 보면서
they do from their doctors,
and every time we make a mistake,
바탕을 두려고 노력을 많이 하죠.
like we're going to do something bad,
죄책감을 느끼지만,
of good medical information.
to give information on those shows.
다양한 방법들이 있습니다.
to read the news,
fair information out on those shows,
얻을 수 있는 다양한 방법들이 있어요.
we're going to control people's minds way,
기이한 것이 아니라,
very interesting and intelligent
지능적인 방법들인데,
one side's version or the other,
was how we were giving the news.
you've written as fiction
very disturbing for that reason.
"스캔들"이 좀 충격적이었죠.
that's about politics gone mad,
we've always told the show --
pays attention to the papers.
신문을 읽어 달라는 것이었어요.
We talk about everything.
모든 것에 대해 얘기해 보죠.
아는 사람들이 아주 많지만,
done our show as a speculation.
if the wheels came off the bus
the wheels were coming off the bus
바퀴가 빠져나가는 것 같고,
were really coming true.
현실감이 떨어지는 것이겠죠.
controlling the American election,
내용을 끝으로,
of being involved in the American election
미국 선거에 개입했다는 의혹이 제기됐고,
what we were going to do for our season.
starts speaking Russian?
러시아어로 얘기하는 장면은
and figure out what we're going to do."
어떻게 할지 생각해 봅시다."
was going to happen,
추론으로부터 나온
in the world do you look?
관심을 두고 계신가요?
storytelling right now?
사람은 누가 있을까요?
of interesting stuff out there.
흥미로운 것들이 많아요.
is always amazing
very much television at all,
TV를 아예 안 보려고 해요.
until I'm done with a season,
미국 방송도 보지 않으려고 하는데,
to creep into my head otherwise.
and talk about being on a throne?
왕좌에 오르는 얘기를 할 수 없지?
until the seasons are over.
TV를 많이 보지 않으려고 해요.
interesting European television out there.
TV 방송들이 많다고 생각해요.
the stuff that they were showing,
I want to watch and check out.
확인해 보고 싶은 것들이 있죠.
thinking about tech stuff,
쓰지 않는다는 걸 알지만,
we had someone here at TED
누군가 강연을 한 적이 있는데,
your TV shows essentially in your eye?
시청하는 걸 상상해 볼 수 있을까요?
who sat on the pantry floor
할 수 있는 것이요?
to be Toni Morrison, so no.
되고 싶었으니까, 없다고 할래요.
some bigger world,
마술 같은 방법에 대한 생각들로,
when new technology comes out
to want to try it.
and exciting right now,
to me, it feels like,
what we're going to settle on.
여러분의 이야기를 올릴 수 있는건
how to get the technology
그에 걸맞는 기술을
of storytelling to meet,
the thing I briefly flew by earlier,
which is a recent phenomenon,
이런 기술 덕분이겠죠.
시작되고 있었죠, 맞죠?
the storytelling process at all?
어떤 변화를 가져 올까요?
for the whole season beforehand, right?
기획을 하시잖아요?
where we were going to end.
언제 끝을 낼지는 항상 알고 있었죠.
that's been going on for 14 seasons
드라마를 만들었고,
who have been watching it for 14 seasons,
I'd encounter in the grocery store
12살짜리 소녀를
297 episodes in three weeks.
한다는 것이죠.
experience for them,
그들에겐 아주 특이한 경험이죠.
a very short period of time
has a completely different arc
그들에겐 전혀 다르게 다가오고,
and then leaving it. It's a strange --
다녀 온 것 같겠죠. 신기한
and then putting it down.
내려놓는 것 같겠죠.
of the experience.
something for 14 seasons.
볼 필요는 없어요.
the way everything's supposed to be.
that you don't think we should touch?
I think of story that way.
생각하진 않아요.
and what characters would do
등장인물들과 그들이 뭘 하고,
in order to make them move forward,
이야기가 잘 흘러갈지 생각하죠.
in terms of just plot,
이야기의 전부라고 절대 생각치 않아요.
into my writer's room and pitch me plot,
새로운 구상에 대한 의견을 낼 때면,
"다른 나라 말처럼 들려요."
I need to hear what's real.
저는 정확한 의미를 알아야 하는데 말이죠.
to think there's something I wouldn't do
방식이 있는지 모르겠어요.
pieces of plot off a wall or something.
벽 같은데서 뜯어 내는 것 같잖아요.
do you think you will use --
어느 정도까지 가능하다고 생각하세요 --
on the board of Planned Parenthood
이사진에 올랐고,
in the Hillary Clinton campaign.
선거운동에도 참여하셨잖아요.
you will use your storytelling
이용할 생각이세요?
제대로 전달하지 못하는 건
there's a lot of organizations
that they've created for themselves
가지고 있지 않아요.
도움이 될 텐데 말이죠.
with a better narrative.
narrative for themselves.
많은 것들을 할 수 있었어요.
that could happen
that any speechwriter would mean it.
that that's, like, my job to do that.
생각하진 않아요.
SR: Thank you.
숀다: 감사합니다.
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Shonda Rhimes - Writer, producerWith the runaway success of shows like Scandal and Grey’s Anatomy, Shonda Rhimes has become one of Hollywood’s most powerful icons.
Why you should listen
When ABC kicked off its 2014 television season by devoting its Thursday night line-up to the Shondaland shows How to Get Away With Murder, Scandal and Grey’s Anatomy, Shonda Rhimes -- already one of the most influential producers in Hollywood -- became arguably the single most powerful voice in television today. In 2015, ABC snapped up Rhimes’ latest series, The Catch. Shondaland shows have the special ability to capture both fan devotion and critical attention – she’s won everything from a Peabody Award to a People’s Choice Award.
Rhimes is known for her groundbreaking storytelling, her candor and humor in the face of her critics, and for never shying away from speaking her mind. She’s also known for her social media savvy, and fans of her shows basically own Twitter on Thursday nights. Her first book, Year of Yes, was published in November 2015.
Shonda Rhimes | Speaker | TED.com
Cyndi Stivers - Encourager-in-chief, TED Residency
Cyndi Stivers curates special events for TED and often serves as a board member, adviser, business strategist and startup coach.
Why you should listen
Cyndi Stivers is encourager-in-chief of the TED Residency, an idea incubator at TED headquarters in New York. She started out in hot-type newspapers and has since shepherded media startups and reinvigorated venerable brands on nearly every platform, including magazines, television, radio and online, right back to the early days of the consumer internet. From 1995 to 2005, while in charge of North American operations for London-based Time Out Group Ltd., she led the creation of Time Out magazines, guidebooks and websites for New York and Chicago.
Stivers is a longtime trustee of Barnard College, of which she is a proud alumna. For more work history, please see LinkedIn or cyndistivers.com, and for photos of urban gardens and other obsessions, follow @CyndiStivers on Twitter or Facebook.
Cyndi Stivers | Speaker | TED.com