TED@BCG Toronto
Vinay Shandal: How conscious investors can turn up the heat and make companies change
维纳 · 山达尔: 有责任意识的投资者如何掀起浪潮，令公司做出改变
Filmed:
Readability: 4.4
1,652,752 views
在一个既紧急又有趣的演讲中，咨询人士维纳 · 山达尔分享了世界顶级激进投资者的故事，向人们展示了私人和机构如何在自己的轨道(剧本)上通过向企业施压来制造正向变革。“你有权利来让自己的钱以一种和你的价值观相符的方式被管理起来，”山达尔说到。“使用你的呼声，并且相信这些呼声可以产生作用。”
Vinay Shandal - Investment agitator
BCG's Vinay Shandal is passionate about the role of capital in creating impact. Full bio
BCG's Vinay Shandal is passionate about the role of capital in creating impact. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
We love to engage
on the issues of the day.
on the issues of the day.
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我们热衷于讨论当今的问题，
00:16
We love it.
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我们喜欢这样。
我们评论新闻，
00:17
We comment on the news,
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00:18
we post our views on social media,
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在社交媒体上发表自己的观点，
我们示威，抗议，
00:21
we march, we protest ...
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00:24
But who among us is working on solutions,
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但是我们当中有谁在解决问题，
为重大问题提供大型解决方案，
00:27
big solutions to big issues,
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00:30
like gun violence,
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比如枪支暴力，
员工不公平待遇，
00:32
mistreatment of workers,
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洪灾，饥荒，干旱？
00:34
flood, famine, drought?
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00:35
Who is on it?
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谁在忙于这些？
看看吧！
00:38
Boom!
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是这些人。
00:40
These guys.
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00:42
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
什么？你们希望是
彼得 · 帕克（蜘蛛侠）？
彼得 · 帕克（蜘蛛侠）？
00:44
What? You were hoping for Peter Parker?
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还是复仇者联盟？
00:46
The Avengers?
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你们不期望是这些具备
多样性的标杆人物，
多样性的标杆人物，
00:48
You don't expect this beacon of diversity,
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00:51
these good-looking, nicely dressed dudes
just oozing charisma to solve the issues?
just oozing charisma to solve the issues?
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这些相貌堂堂，穿着光鲜，
散发着魅力的人去解决问题？
散发着魅力的人去解决问题？
00:57
Well good, because they're actually
not going to solve the issues.
not going to solve the issues.
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那就对了，因为他们
也不是来解决问题的。
也不是来解决问题的。
01:00
But before you dismiss them,
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但是，在你们解雇他们之前，
01:03
let me say, they're not going
to solve the issues,
to solve the issues,
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我想说，他们不会去解决问题，
但是他们将向我们
展示该如何解决问题。
展示该如何解决问题。
01:06
but they will show us how.
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01:09
So who are they?
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那么他们是谁？
01:10
They're activist investors:
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他们是激进投资者。
01:12
Carl Icahn, Dan Loeb,
Paul Singer, Barry Rosenstein.
Paul Singer, Barry Rosenstein.
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卡尔 · 伊坎，丹 · 罗伯，
保罗 · 辛格，巴里 · 罗森斯坦。
保罗 · 辛格，巴里 · 罗森斯坦。
他们是当下华尔街的大佬。
01:18
These are the modern-day
OGs of Wall Street.
OGs of Wall Street.
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（笑声）
01:22
(Laughter)
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这些都是可怕的家伙。
01:23
These are scary dudes.
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我不是说像绿恶魔那种可怕，
01:24
I don't mean Green Goblin scary.
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01:26
I mean real scary.
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我是说真正的可怕。
01:29
The fear they strike in the hearts
of a company's CEO and board
of a company's CEO and board
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是当他们进入到一个
公司的股票行业后，那种会打击
公司的股票行业后，那种会打击
一个公司CEO和董事会内心的可怕，
01:33
when they enter its stock
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01:35
is the same fear you feel
when you hear a bear outside your tent,
when you hear a bear outside your tent,
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和你在夜晚的帐篷中听到
外面有熊的那种恐惧感
外面有熊的那种恐惧感
01:40
and it's dark,
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如出一辙，
01:41
and you're sitting there
with a mouthful of Doritos --
with a mouthful of Doritos --
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你正坐在帐篷中，嘴里
塞满了多力多滋玉米片——
塞满了多力多滋玉米片——
（笑声）
01:44
(Laughter)
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01:45
that just moments ago,
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也就是不久前
你刚潜出帐篷从熊挂的
地方取下来的那包，
地方取下来的那包，
01:46
you had snuck out of the tent
to pull down from the bear hang,
to pull down from the bear hang,
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因为你想吃点心了。
01:49
because you had the munchies.
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就是那种恐惧。
01:51
That fear.
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01:53
And in that moment, you are praying,
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在那一刻，你祈祷着，
01:54
"Oh Lord, please let this bear
be passing through."
be passing through."
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“噢，上帝，请让这只熊赶紧离开吧！”
01:58
That bear is not passing through!
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这只熊不会走开！
那只熊绕道走向了你，
02:01
That bear made a detour for you.
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熊喜欢吃玉米片！
02:04
Bears like Doritos!
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02:06
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
02:07
Activists like money.
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激进投资者喜欢钱。
02:09
Some activists also like Doritos,
but they definitely want money.
but they definitely want money.
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一些投资者也喜欢玉米片，
但是他们绝对更想要钱。
但是他们绝对更想要钱。
并且他们赚钱的方式，
他们创造价值的方式，
他们创造价值的方式，
02:16
And the way they make money,
the way they create value,
the way they create value,
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是通过企业的管理
02:20
is by getting management of corporations
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去制造改变。
02:23
to make changes.
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02:26
Now, some will argue
that the changes they create,
that the changes they create,
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有些人会争辩，
认为他们创造的这种改变，
认为他们创造的这种改变，
02:29
the value they create,
is too short-term in nature.
is too short-term in nature.
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他们创造的价值，
在自然中周期太短。
在自然中周期太短。
02:32
And others will say the tactics
they use are egregious.
they use are egregious.
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其他人则认为他们
使用的策略太过分。
使用的策略太过分。
02:36
I agree.
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我同意。
02:37
Long, drawn-out lawsuits,
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长期，持久的诉讼，
公然的恶意营销——
02:39
public smear campaigns --
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是没有必要的。
02:40
there is no need for that.
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但是我必须说，有少数的投资者
02:43
But I must say, there's
a small handful of activists,
a small handful of activists,
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02:46
very small,
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非常之少，
02:48
that go to great lengths
to be constructive and collaborative.
to be constructive and collaborative.
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他们付诸很大努力来
保持建设性和协作性。
保持建设性和协作性。
总体上来说，我们需要在
需要信任的地方给予信任。
需要信任的地方给予信任。
02:51
And overall, we have to give credit
where credit is due.
where credit is due.
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02:53
As a group, they have managed
to catalyze large-scale change
to catalyze large-scale change
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作为一个团体，
他们设法在大公司中
他们设法在大公司中
制造了大规模的变革，
02:57
in large corporations,
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这可不是什么不起眼的成就。
02:59
and that's no small feat.
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03:02
Now, imagine a world
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现在设想一下，在一个社会中，
03:04
where all investors were working
with management to make change,
with management to make change,
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所有的投资者都在
通过管理来创造改变，
通过管理来创造改变，
不只是赚取更多的钱，
03:07
not just to make more money,
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03:10
but to improve
the environment and society.
the environment and society.
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而是为了改善环境和社会。
03:13
Imagine what a greener
and better world this would be.
and better world this would be.
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想象一下，那将是一个
多么环保并且美好的世界。
多么环保并且美好的世界。
03:18
Now, why? Why would an investor bother?
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然而，为什么投资者会
不厌其烦的这么做？
不厌其烦的这么做？
首先，我跟你们一样纳闷儿：
为什么投资者会在意这件事儿？
为什么投资者会在意这件事儿？
03:20
And at first, blush I'm with you:
Why would an investor care?
Why would an investor care?
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因为如果在 ESG 的问题上——
03:23
Because if doing well on ESG issues --
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即环境问题，社会问题
和管理问题上——表现很好，
和管理问题上——表现很好，
03:25
environmental, social
and governance issues --
and governance issues --
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03:28
was just an act of good
corporate citizenship,
corporate citizenship,
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这只是一个好的企业公民的行为，
03:32
then I agree, investors would not care.
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那么我同意，投资者不会在意。
但是好的消息，
03:34
But the good news,
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03:35
and perhaps the saving grace
for our collective futures,
for our collective futures,
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或者说我们共同未来的救赎，
03:39
is that it's so much more than
an act of good corporate citizenship.
an act of good corporate citizenship.
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远比一个好的企业的
公民行为具有更深远的意义，
公民行为具有更深远的意义，
03:43
It's good business.
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那就是好的业务。
03:45
There's now enough evidence
that shows a clear correlation
that shows a clear correlation
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有很多证据可以证明
好的财务表现和ESG的
表现之间存在明显的关联。
表现之间存在明显的关联。
03:48
between ESG performance
and financial performance.
and financial performance.
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03:51
Companies that do good
for the environment and society
for the environment and society
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那些在环境和社会
问题上做的很好的企业，
问题上做的很好的企业，
通常在财务上也表现的很好。
03:54
also do well financially.
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03:57
And some of the best
companies are catching on.
companies are catching on.
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一些最好的公司也在迎头赶上。
03:59
Like Adidas:
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比如阿迪达斯：
04:01
Adidas is cleaning up the ocean
and making money in the process.
and making money in the process.
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阿迪达斯正在清洁海洋，
同时也在这个过程中赚钱。
同时也在这个过程中赚钱。
阿迪达斯成立了一个
组织叫做 “海洋会谈”。
组织叫做 “海洋会谈”。
04:05
Adidas teamed up with an organization
called Parley for the Oceans.
called Parley for the Oceans.
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04:09
Parley goes out and collects
plastic waste from the ocean.
plastic waste from the ocean.
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这个组织致力于搜集
海洋中的塑料垃圾。
海洋中的塑料垃圾。
04:12
Adidas uses the plastic waste
to make shoes.
to make shoes.
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阿迪达斯利用这些
塑料垃圾制造鞋子。
塑料垃圾制造鞋子。
04:15
Shoes made with plastic from the ocean:
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从海洋中获取的
塑料垃圾制作的鞋子：
塑料垃圾制作的鞋子：
04:18
good for the environment
and good for business.
and good for business.
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对环境和业务都有好处。
04:21
Because if you know that rapidly growing
consumer segment known as hipsters --
consumer segment known as hipsters --
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因为如果你知道有一群迅速增长的
消费者群体叫做时尚族的话——
消费者群体叫做时尚族的话——
04:25
and I know you know hipsters --
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我知道你们都了解时尚族——
你就知道当一个时尚族
在一个无名品牌的鞋子
在一个无名品牌的鞋子
04:27
then you know that a hipster faced with
the choice between a no-name shoe
the choice between a no-name shoe
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和一个阿迪达斯生产的用海洋
塑料垃圾制作的鞋子之间做选择时，
塑料垃圾制作的鞋子之间做选择时，
04:31
and an Adidas made with
plastic from the ocean
plastic from the ocean
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他一周中每天都会挑选一次
阿迪达斯，周末会挑选两次，
阿迪达斯，周末会挑选两次，
04:33
will pick the Adidas every day
of the week and twice on Sunday,
of the week and twice on Sunday,
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04:37
and then walk around like it's no big deal
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然后出去转转，表现得没什么特别 ，
04:39
but look for every opportunity
to talk about them.
to talk about them.
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但是却会见缝插针的找机会跟人
讨论关于鞋子的话题，
讨论关于鞋子的话题，
04:43
Like, in an Uber Pool.
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比如跟人共享打车的时候。
(笑)
04:45
(Laughter)
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“嘿，我注意到你在看我的脚。”
04:46
"Hey, I noticed you looking at my feet."
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04:49
"What? Dude, no, I'm just making slides.
I'm a consultant. I make slides.
I'm a consultant. I make slides.
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“什么？老兄，不，我只是在做幻灯片，
我是一个咨询顾问，我在做幻灯片。
我是一个咨询顾问，我在做幻灯片。
我在做 ppt 幻灯片，我没有看——”
04:53
I'm making PowerPoint slides,
I'm not looking --"
I'm not looking --"
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“噢不，没关系的。
04:55
"No, it's fine.
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我知道你们为什么一直在看了。
04:56
I get why you'd be looking.
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我鞋上的塑料一定让你觉得奇怪。
04:58
The plastic on my shoe
must be bothering you.
must be bothering you.
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好的，在我们下车前
可以讨论一下这个话题。
可以讨论一下这个话题。
05:00
Well, let me talk about it
for the rest of this ride.
for the rest of this ride.
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实际上我鞋上的塑料来自海洋，
05:03
You see, the plastic on my shoe
is from the ocean,
is from the ocean,
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在我的脚上，并不在
你吃的鱼的肚子里，
你吃的鱼的肚子里，
05:05
on my feet, not in your fish,
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在脚上穿着走，没有被吃进嘴里。
05:07
being walked on, not being munched on.
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幸福双脚，幸福鱼类，幸福海洋。
05:09
Happy feet. Happy fish. Happy ocean.
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05:12
Doing my part. I got eco-shoes.
I got eco-shoes.
I got eco-shoes.
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保护海洋人人有责，
我买了双环保鞋。
我买了双环保鞋。
你也来几双怎么样？”
05:14
You need some eco-shoes?"
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诸如此类，别太当真。
我们都有过这样的时刻。
我们都有过这样的时刻。
05:16
And so on, just cornering him.
We've all been there.
We've all been there.
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“把手机给我，给您一个折扣码吧。
05:19
"Hey, pass me your cell phone.
I'll give you a discount code.
I'll give you a discount code.
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让我给您一个折扣码。”
05:21
Let me give you a discount code."
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我们曾经都——
05:23
We've all been --
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伙计们，这会儿我已经跳下车了。
05:24
Folks, I have jumped out
of moving Uber Pools.
of moving Uber Pools.
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（笑）
05:26
(Laughter)
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就是在高速公路上飞驰的时候，
我忍不住坚持要下车。
我忍不住坚持要下车。
05:28
Just, moving, highway, I'm out. I'm out.
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05:32
But we've got to forgive the hipsters,
we need to love the hipsters.
we need to love the hipsters.
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但是我们需要原谅时尚潮人，
我们需要爱护这些时尚族。
我们需要爱护这些时尚族。
05:35
We need hipsters,
and we need companies like Adidas,
and we need companies like Adidas,
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我们需要潮人，也需要
像阿迪达斯这样的企业，
像阿迪达斯这样的企业，
我们最需要的是
让投资者说服其他公司
让投资者说服其他公司
05:38
and what we need most is for investors
to convince other companies
to convince other companies
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向阿迪达斯学习。
05:41
to behave like Adidas.
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这就是挑战所在。
05:43
And herein lies the challenge.
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05:45
There's a growing group of investors,
call them "conscious investors."
call them "conscious investors."
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有这么一群数量不断增长的投资者，
我们称之为 “有意识的投资者”。
我们称之为 “有意识的投资者”。
05:49
Conscious investors care about ESG issues.
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有意识的投资者关注ESG问题。
05:53
And they talk a lot about
engaging management on ESG issues.
engaging management on ESG issues.
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他们讨论许多关于参与到
ESG问题管理的话题。
ESG问题管理的话题。
05:58
But they don't actually get
management to make changes
management to make changes
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但是他们并不会实际参与到
这些管理工作中来，这些工作
这些管理工作中来，这些工作
06:00
that will improve
the environment and society.
the environment and society.
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将来会改善环境和社会状况。
06:04
And this is where conscious investors
can take a page from the playbook
can take a page from the playbook
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这就是有责任意识的投资者
可以从激进投资者的
可以从激进投资者的
剧本中学习的一页，
06:07
of the activist investors,
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06:09
because the activist investors have no
issues getting management to make changes.
issues getting management to make changes.
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因为激进投资者在管理层
做出改变方面没有任何问题。
做出改变方面没有任何问题。
06:13
They have no issues turning up the heat.
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他们在搞事情方面也没有任何问题。
06:16
Take Paul Singer.
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以保罗 · 辛格尔为例。
他是一位华尔街的老家伙，
06:17
He's an old-school Wall Street OG,
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已经70多岁了，喜欢玉米片，喜欢赚钱。
06:19
now in his 70s, loves Doritos,
loves making money.
loves making money.
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06:24
Argentina owed Paul 600 million dollars
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阿根廷欠保罗6亿美金
06:27
and would not pay.
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并且想赖账。
06:30
Big mistake.
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真是大错特错了。
06:31
You can't take money from an OG
and not pay it back.
and not pay it back.
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你不可能从一个老家伙
那里拿钱而不还回去。
那里拿钱而不还回去。
06:35
Paul went to war with Argentina.
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保罗于是和阿根廷开战了。
我并没有胡说八道。
06:37
I am not inventing.
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这确实是一个巨大的错误，
06:40
This is big. This was huge.
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06:41
This was bigger than Tyson vs Holyfield,
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比泰森和霍利菲尔德的，
比阿里和福尔曼的问题还严重。
06:44
Ali vs Foreman.
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这是一个人和一个国家的矛盾。
06:45
This was man vs country.
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06:47
Paul Singer started going around the world
trying to seize up Argentinian assets.
trying to seize up Argentinian assets.
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保罗 · 辛格尔周游世界，尝试去
没收阿根廷在各处的资产。
没收阿根廷在各处的资产。
06:52
At one point, he tried to seize
an Argentinian navy vessel
an Argentinian navy vessel
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曾经有一次，他尝试
在加纳海岸没收一艘
在加纳海岸没收一艘
阿根廷的海军潜艇。
06:57
off the coast of Ghana.
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06:58
He tried to take over a 350-foot ship
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他尝试去拿走一艘350英尺的船，
07:01
while big navy officers
with big guns were on the ship.
with big guns were on the ship.
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而在那艘船上有
全副武装的海军军官。
全副武装的海军军官。
他雇佣加纳的警察
调来一台起重机
调来一台起重机
07:05
He got the police in Ghana
to show up with a crane
to show up with a crane
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并威胁要登船，
07:09
and threaten to board the ship,
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直到海军军官亮出了武器，
07:10
and it wasn't until
the navy officers drew their weapons
the navy officers drew their weapons
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07:15
that they called off the operation.
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他们才罢休。
07:17
That's what I call turning up the heat.
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这就是我所说的 “搞事情”。
07:20
Now, you may say
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你可能会说，
07:22
Paul lost the battle.
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保罗在这场对抗中失败了。
07:24
And I'll say, Paul won the war,
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但我却认为，保罗赢了这场战争，
因为保罗拿到的不是同倍的赔偿，
07:26
because Paul didn't get paid one time,
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他拿到了他最初
投资额20倍的赔偿。
投资额20倍的赔偿。
07:28
he got paid 20 times
his original investment.
his original investment.
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07:32
Then you have Barry Rosenstein.
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接着我们再看看
巴里 · 罗森斯坦的事迹。
巴里 · 罗森斯坦的事迹。
他的基金， Jana Partners，
07:34
His fund, Jana Partners,
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开始在全食超市（Whole Foods）
陷入困境时，悄悄地
陷入困境时，悄悄地
07:35
started stealth-mode buying up
stock in Whole Foods,
stock in Whole Foods,
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购买它的股票。
07:38
at a time when Whole Foods was struggling.
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07:40
They got to eight percent, came out,
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当他的持股占比达到8%时，他站出来
推动全食超市把公司卖给亚马逊。
07:42
and pushed Whole Foods
to sell itself to Amazon,
to sell itself to Amazon,
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07:45
and not because Barry wanted
same-day delivery of his organic Doritos.
same-day delivery of his organic Doritos.
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并不是因为巴里想要他喜欢的
有机玉米片能当天发货。
有机玉米片能当天发货。
（笑）
07:49
(Laughter)
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07:50
He wanted to make some money.
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他是想要赚钱。
07:53
Now, the CEO of Whole Foods,
John Mackey, and the board
John Mackey, and the board
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不过全食超市的CEO
约翰 · 麦基和董事会
约翰 · 麦基和董事会
07:55
did not want to sell themselves to Amazon,
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不想把自己的公司卖给亚马逊，
08:00
because that would be
the prime example of selling out.
the prime example of selling out.
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因为这将是企业出售的典型案例。
08:03
But in the end, they caved.
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但是最终，他们屈服了。
08:05
Why? Because Barry turned up the heat,
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为什么？ 因为巴里不断施压，
08:08
and he made 300 million
dollars in the process.
dollars in the process.
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并且在这个过程中赚了3亿美刀。
08:11
And he did not leave
a very nice impression on John.
a very nice impression on John.
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他也并没有给约翰留下一个好印象。
08:15
You're not going to see
John and Barry just hugging it out
John and Barry just hugging it out
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你不会在全食超市的咖啡店看到
约翰和巴里拥抱。
08:18
at the Whole Foods café.
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08:20
Let's take a very different example now:
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让我们再看另外
一个截然不同的例子：
一个截然不同的例子：
08:23
the Chicago Teachers' Pension Fund,
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芝加哥的教师养老基金，
08:26
a $10 billion conscious investor.
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一个价值100亿美金的责任意识投资。
08:29
They recently came out hard
against private prisons in the US,
against private prisons in the US,
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他们最近对美国的私人
监狱进行了严厉的打击，
监狱进行了严厉的打击，
并且对他们是有利的。
08:32
and good for them.
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08:34
As a new parent, I tell you,
I am troubled by devastating images
I am troubled by devastating images
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作为一个父亲，
我告诉诸位，我很讨厌那些
我告诉诸位，我很讨厌那些
发生在美国边境的把年轻孩子从父母
08:37
of young children being ripped
out of the arms of their parents
out of the arms of their parents
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怀抱扯走的虐心照片，
08:40
at the US border
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或者那些年轻孩子被放在
私人拘留中心的照片，
私人拘留中心的照片，
08:42
and being placed in private
detention facilities that did too little
detention facilities that did too little
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这些拘留中心在帮助孩子和父母
保持联系方面几乎毫无作为。
保持联系方面几乎毫无作为。
08:45
to help the kids maintain
contact with their parents.
contact with their parents.
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08:49
So what did the Chicago teachers do?
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那么芝加哥的教师们做了什么？
他们设法让管理层做出改变了吗？
08:52
Did they get management to make changes?
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他们施压了么？
08:55
Did they turn up the heat?
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他们有看着管理层的眼睛说
08:56
Did they look management
in the eye and say,
in the eye and say,
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“这不是做事情的方法。
08:58
"This is no way to run a business.
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09:01
There's a different way
to do things. Let me show you"?
to do things. Let me show you"?
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存在另外一种做事的方式，
让我展示给你看"这些话吗？
让我展示给你看"这些话吗？
09:03
No. They just sold their stock.
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没有，他们只是在卖他们的股票。
09:07
Selling did nothing.
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售卖做不了任何事情。
管理层并不可能第二天起床后
09:09
It's not like management
woke up the next day
woke up the next day
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09:11
and had an epiphany and said,
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忽然顿悟并且说，
“天呐，教师们卖了股票，
我们还是对孩子好些吧。”
我们还是对孩子好些吧。”
09:13
"Gosh, the teachers sold their stock.
We'd better be nice to the kids."
We'd better be nice to the kids."
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不，这并没有发生。
09:16
No. That didn't happen.
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09:18
And despite a decade
of several high-profile divestitures
of several high-profile divestitures
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尽管过去十年美国的
私人监狱股票发生了
私人监狱股票发生了
09:22
in private prison stock in the US,
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几次受人瞩目的资产剥离，
他们的股票依然在爬升。
09:24
the stock has continued to climb.
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这些公司的股票在
同一时期的表现超过了市场。
同一时期的表现超过了市场。
09:26
The stock over that same period
has outperformed the market.
has outperformed the market.
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09:31
And the biggest issue is,
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并且最大的问题是，
我们从一开始一帮有责任意识的
投资者拥有这些股票，
投资者拥有这些股票，
09:33
we went from a set of conscious
investors owning the stock
investors owning the stock
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09:36
to it potentially being owned by investors
who don't care about these issues
who don't care about these issues
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走到这些股票很有可能
被那些不在乎这些问题，
被那些不在乎这些问题，
09:41
and don't care what you think
about these issues.
about these issues.
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不在乎人们对这些问题看法的
投资者所拥有的地步。
投资者所拥有的地步。
09:44
And this is my issue
with conscious investors.
with conscious investors.
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这是我对有责任意识的
投资者抱有的问题。
投资者抱有的问题。
09:47
Their MO is to divest
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他们的目标是撤资
09:49
or divert money into ESG-focused funds.
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或者把资金转入
ESG关注的基金中。
ESG关注的基金中。
09:52
You can't divest your way
to a greener world.
to a greener world.
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你不能按照自己的方式把
资金转入一个更绿化的世界。
资金转入一个更绿化的世界。
09:57
You can divest your way
to a greener portfolio,
to a greener portfolio,
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你不能按照自己的方式把资金
转入一个更绿化的投资中去，
转入一个更绿化的投资中去，
也不能到一个更绿化的世界中。
09:59
not to a greener world.
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10:02
So what's it going to take?
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那么要怎么办呢？
怎么才能反转剧本，
10:04
What's it going to take
to flip the script,
to flip the script,
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2051
来让有责任意识的投资者
从撤资转向参与，
从撤资转向参与，
10:06
to get conscious investors to go
from divesting to engaging,
from divesting to engaging,
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从仅仅讨论如何参与，
到加入实际的管理工作中来，
到加入实际的管理工作中来，
10:09
to go from talking about engaging
to actually working with management
to actually working with management
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597030
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以便能制造改变，从而
提高他们的ESG表现？
提高他们的ESG表现？
10:12
to make changes that will improve
their ESG performance?
their ESG performance?
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10:17
Because there's a lot suggesting
they should and they could.
they should and they could.
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因为有一堆他们应该
并且可以采纳的建议，
并且可以采纳的建议，
因为ESG表现和财务表现之间
10:20
They should, given the clear correlation
between ESG performance
between ESG performance
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3073
10:23
and financial performance.
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有明显的相关性。
10:25
They could because the activists
have shown us they could.
have shown us they could.
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2835
他们应该可以做到，因为他们
已经证明了他们可以的。
已经证明了他们可以的。
10:29
A shareholder can drive
change in a company.
change in a company.
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一个持股人可以驱动
一个企业发生改变。
一个企业发生改变。
不同之处在于，保罗和巴里
做这些事情是为了赚钱。
做这些事情是为了赚钱。
10:31
The difference is, Paul and Barry
do what they do to make money.
do what they do to make money.
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10:36
The conscious investors would do it
to improve society and the environment
to improve society and the environment
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5099
有责任意识的投资者做这些事情
则是为了改良社会和环境，
则是为了改良社会和环境，
10:41
and make money in the process
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1753
顺便从中获利，
10:43
and do it a little more
collaboratively and constructively.
collaboratively and constructively.
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2997
并且会以一种更具有合作性
和建设性的方式来做事。
和建设性的方式来做事。
10:47
And they have the backing
of the some of the largest investors.
of the some of the largest investors.
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他们还有一些
大的投资者支持着。
大的投资者支持着。
先锋集团和黑石集团，
他们一起管理着百亿的资产。
他们一起管理着百亿的资产。
10:50
Vanguard and BlackRock --
together, they manage trillions.
together, they manage trillions.
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他们对ESG的重要性
越来越直言不讳。
越来越直言不讳。
10:53
They've been increasingly vocal
about the importance of ESG.
about the importance of ESG.
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3412
10:57
The CEO of BlackRock has been
increasingly vocal in his annual letters
increasingly vocal in his annual letters
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3984
黑石集团的CEO在他的
年度来信中越来越直接的
年度来信中越来越直接的
11:01
about this issue.
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1331
谈论这一问题。
11:03
Even Jana Partners, the same OGs
that John called "greedy bastards,"
that John called "greedy bastards,"
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4770
甚至连 Jana Partners，也就是被约翰
称之为 “贪婪匪徒” 的老家伙们，
称之为 “贪婪匪徒” 的老家伙们，
11:08
recently co-wrote an open letter
to the board of Apple,
to the board of Apple,
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近期也联合起来给苹果
董事会写了一封公开信，
董事会写了一封公开信，
信中说到：“嗨，你们的
手机容易让小孩子上瘾。
手机容易让小孩子上瘾。
11:10
saying, "Hey, your smartphones
are addictive for children.
are addictive for children.
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11:14
Fix it."
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1196
解决这个问题。”
11:16
Apple is working on it.
240
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1654
苹果公司现在已经
在解决这个问题了。
在解决这个问题了。
11:19
So what it's going to take
is some pressure.
is some pressure.
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所以需要做的就是施加一点点压力。
11:22
It's going to take some pressure
on conscious investors
on conscious investors
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就是给有责任意识的
投资者们一点压力，
投资者们一点压力，
以顺便给管理层施压，
11:25
to, in turn, put some pressure
on management
on management
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2827
11:28
to make changes that will improve
the environment and society.
the environment and society.
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676224
4253
使得他们能够做出改变
来改进环境和社会。
来改进环境和社会。
11:33
And where do they start?
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那么他们要从哪里开始呢？
他们从重视一个会
影响自己的问题开始，
影响自己的问题开始，
11:34
They start by picking an issue
that matters to them
that matters to them
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2811
并且坚持自己的立场。
11:37
and taking a stand on it.
247
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1302
11:39
Take a stand on an issue
that lines up with your purpose:
that lines up with your purpose:
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3255
在一个问题上坚持自己的立场，
该立场与你的目的一致：
该立场与你的目的一致：
11:43
water preservation,
labor rights, diversity.
labor rights, diversity.
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2645
节约用水，劳动权利，多样性。
11:45
As long as it lines up
with your purpose, you are golden.
with your purpose, you are golden.
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一旦它与你的目的战线
一致，你就成功了。
一致，你就成功了。
11:49
And the biggest unlock?
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1635
最大的发现是什么呢？
11:51
Get the senior-most investment
professionals focused on this.
professionals focused on this.
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让最资深的投资专家专注于此。
11:56
Today, when an activist
shows up to a campaign,
shows up to a campaign,
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2278
今天，当一个激进投资者
参与一个活动时，
参与一个活动时，
是他们的高级投资专家与
CEO和董事会进行对话，
CEO和董事会进行对话，
11:58
it's the senior investment professional
talking to the CEO and the board
talking to the CEO and the board
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每一个人对此都有所耳闻。
12:02
and everyone hears about it.
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12:03
When a conscious investor shows up
to talk about an ESG issue,
to talk about an ESG issue,
256
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3547
当一个有责任意识的投资者
出面谈论ESG问题的时候，
出面谈论ESG问题的时候，
却是风险部门的低级职员去和
12:07
it's some junior person
in the risk department
in the risk department
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2441
12:09
talking to some junior person
in the investor relations department,
in the investor relations department,
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投资关系部门的资历
较浅的职员对话，
较浅的职员对话，
并且大家对此一无所知，
这种情况应该被改变。
这种情况应该被改变。
12:13
and nobody hears about it,
and that needs to change.
and that needs to change.
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这不是什么巨大的飞跃。
12:15
And it's not some massive leap.
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今天当一个公司财务表现不佳时，
12:17
Today, when a company
underperforms financially,
underperforms financially,
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谁是受害者？
12:19
who is on the hook?
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资深的投资专业人士。
12:20
The senior investment professional.
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12:22
So what do they do?
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所以他们会做什么？
他们会放下所有事情去参与管理，
12:23
They drop everything
and work with management,
and work with management,
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带有合作性和建设性的去参与，
12:26
collaboratively and constructively,
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以期做出改变来提高
公司的财务表现。
公司的财务表现。
12:27
to make changes to improve
the company's financial performance.
the company's financial performance.
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12:31
The same should be true when the company
underperforms on ESG issues.
underperforms on ESG issues.
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当公司在 ESG问题上表现
欠佳时，情况也应如此。
欠佳时，情况也应如此。
是的，这就要求我们以
标准化的方式来衡量ESG问题。
标准化的方式来衡量ESG问题。
12:34
And yes, that requires standardization
on how we measure ESG,
on how we measure ESG,
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但是我们已经在努力了。
12:38
but we're on it.
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12:41
So folks, here's my call to action:
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所以各位，我想发出这样的呼吁：
12:43
it's your money.
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这是你的钱。
12:45
It's your pension fund,
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这是你的养老基金。
12:46
it's your sovereign wealth fund.
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这是你至高无上的财富基金。
12:48
it's your university's endowment.
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这是你们对大学的捐款。
这是你的钱。
12:50
It's your money.
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你有权让你的钱财以一种和你
价值观相符的方式被管理起来。
价值观相符的方式被管理起来。
12:51
And it's your right to have your money
managed in line with your values.
managed in line with your values.
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12:55
So use your voice
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所以，使用你的呼声，
12:57
and trust that it matters.
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并且相信这很重要。
12:59
It was your voice that got the investors
more conscious in the first place.
more conscious in the first place.
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是你的呼声第一时间
让投资者更有觉悟。
让投资者更有觉悟。
13:03
You protested for years,
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你抗议了很多年，
13:05
because you didn't feel right
about your money being invested
about your money being invested
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因为你感觉到不对劲，
对于你的钱财被投资在
对于你的钱财被投资在
13:08
in companies whose values
don't line up with yours.
don't line up with yours.
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那些和你价值观不符的公司，
13:11
It's time to use that voice again.
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是时候再次使用该呼声了。
13:13
But this time, instead of
pushing them to divest,
pushing them to divest,
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但是，这次不是推动他们撤资，
而是推动他们参与其中，
真正的参与，真正的从事管理工作，
真正的参与，真正的从事管理工作，
13:15
push them to engage, truly engage,
truly work with management
truly work with management
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以便做出改变来提高ESG的表现。
13:19
to make changes that will improve
their ESG performance.
their ESG performance.
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13:24
You made them aware of the issues.
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是你让他们意识到了这些问题。
13:26
You can now focus them on fixing them.
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你现在也可聚焦于让
他们解决这些问题。
他们解决这些问题。
13:29
Thank you.
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谢谢。
(掌声，呐喊)
13:30
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Vinay Shandal - Investment agitatorBCG's Vinay Shandal is passionate about the role of capital in creating impact.
Why you should listen
A Partner in The Boston Consulting Group's Toronto office, Vinay Shandal leads BCG's Principal Investors and Private Equity practice in Canada. He also helps lead the global efforts on shareholder activism, a topic for which he developed passion while at Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz. Before becoming a consultant, Shandal practiced corporate law in New York and clerked at the Supreme Court of Canada in Ottawa.
Shandal has co-authored numerous BCG and other publications on various aspects of investing, shareholder activism and the role of capital in driving better societal outcomes.
As a leader at BCG's Centre for Canada's Future, Shandal is also invested in keeping tabs on and tackling some of the country’s most pressing issues. He is a board member of Capitalize 4 Kids, a nonprofit that aims to solve the toughest challenges in children's brain health and mental health. In his work, Shandal is most passionate about the role of capital in creating impact and most inspired by his wife, Christina, who is a respected social activist.
Vinay Shandal | Speaker | TED.com