TED2018
Oskar Eustis: Why theater is essential to democracy
歐斯卡 · 尤斯提斯: 為什麼戲院對民主很重要
Filmed:
Readability: 4.3
1,195,230 views
傳奇性的藝術導演歐斯卡 · 尤斯提斯認為：真相來自於不同想法的碰撞，戲院扮演著重要的角色，讓我們看見那真相。在這場有力的演講中，尤斯提斯說明他計畫要觸及美國那些被許多其他機構所背棄的地方，傾聽製造業外移的州民的聲音。他說：「我們的職責是要支撐美國的遠景，這遠景不只呈現我們每個人各別的身份，還將我們結合起來，重新成為我們需要成為的共同性。」「那是戲院應該要做的事。」
Oskar Eustis - Theater director
As the artistic director of New York's legendary Public Theater, Oskar Eustis nurtures new, groundbreaking works that shift the cultural conversation. Full bio
As the artistic director of New York's legendary Public Theater, Oskar Eustis nurtures new, groundbreaking works that shift the cultural conversation. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
Theater matters because democracy matters.
0
1595
3673
戲院很重要是因為民主很重要。
00:17
Theater is the essential
art form of democracy,
art form of democracy,
1
5653
3919
戲院是民主的根本藝術形式，
00:21
and we know this because
they were born in the same city.
they were born in the same city.
2
9596
4268
我們知道這一點，
是因為它們在同一個城市誕生。
是因為它們在同一個城市誕生。
00:26
In the late 6th century BC,
3
14245
2087
在西元六世紀末期，
00:28
the idea of Western democracy was born.
4
16356
1859
西方民主的想法誕生了。
00:30
It was, of course,
5
18239
1509
當然，在那時，
00:31
a very partial and flawed democracy,
6
19772
2462
它只是個很不完全、
有瑕疵的民主，
有瑕疵的民主，
00:34
but the idea that power should stem
from the consent of the governed,
from the consent of the governed,
7
22258
4955
但，權力應該來自於
被治理者的同意，
被治理者的同意，
00:39
that power should flow
from below to above,
from below to above,
8
27237
3428
權力的流動方向應該是由下而上，
00:42
not the other way around,
9
30689
1611
而非由上而下，
00:44
was born in that decade.
10
32324
1560
此想法在那十年中誕生。
00:45
And in that same decade, somebody --
legend has it, somebody named Thespis --
legend has it, somebody named Thespis --
11
33908
5184
在同樣那十年某個人——
據傳說，他叫做狄斯比斯——
據傳說，他叫做狄斯比斯——
00:51
invented the idea of dialogue.
12
39116
2144
發明了關於對話的想法。
00:53
What does that mean, to invent dialogue?
13
41284
1906
發明對話，那是什麼意思？
00:55
Well, we know that
the Festival of Dionysus gathered
the Festival of Dionysus gathered
14
43214
2626
嗯，我們知道，在戴歐尼修斯節，
00:57
the entire citizenry of Athens
15
45864
1534
雅典所有的市民
00:59
on the side of the Acropolis,
16
47422
1708
會聚集在雅典衛城旁，
01:01
and they would listen to music,
they would watch dancing,
they would watch dancing,
17
49154
3299
他們會聽音樂，他們會看舞蹈，
01:04
and they would have stories told
as part of the Festival of Dionysus.
as part of the Festival of Dionysus.
18
52477
3445
他們會說故事，
這都是戴歐尼修斯節的一部分。
這都是戴歐尼修斯節的一部分。
01:08
And storytelling is much like
what's happening right now:
what's happening right now:
19
56314
2695
說故事就很像現在的情境：
01:11
I'm standing up here,
20
59033
1555
我站在台上這裡，
01:12
the unitary authority,
21
60612
2021
我是單一的權威，
01:14
and I am talking to you.
22
62657
1558
我在對你們說話。
01:16
And you are sitting back,
and you are receiving what I have to say.
and you are receiving what I have to say.
23
64239
3390
你們只是坐著，接收我要說的內容。
01:19
And you may disagree with it,
you may think I'm an insufferable fool,
you may think I'm an insufferable fool,
24
67653
3434
你們可能會不同意我說的，
可能會認為我是個惱人的傻子，
可能會認為我是個惱人的傻子，
01:23
you may be bored to death,
25
71111
1608
你們可能無聊到極點，
01:24
but that dialogue is mostly
taking place inside your own head.
taking place inside your own head.
26
72743
3135
但那對話大部分都是
發生在你們自己的腦袋裡。
發生在你們自己的腦袋裡。
01:28
But what happens if,
instead of me talking to you --
instead of me talking to you --
27
76577
4100
但，如果改一下，
不再是由我對你們說話——
不再是由我對你們說話——
01:32
and Thespis thought of this --
28
80701
1980
這是狄斯比斯想出來的——
01:34
I just shift 90 degrees to the left,
29
82705
2751
我只要向左轉九十度，
01:37
and I talk to another person
onstage with me?
onstage with me?
30
85480
2670
我對台上的另一個人說話，會如何？
01:41
Everything changes,
31
89090
2236
一切都改變了，
01:43
because at that moment,
I'm not the possessor of truth;
I'm not the possessor of truth;
32
91350
3925
因為在那時刻，
我就不是「真相擁有者」；
我就不是「真相擁有者」；
01:47
I'm a guy with an opinion.
33
95299
2250
我只是個有意見的人。
01:50
And I'm talking to somebody else.
34
98260
1596
我是在跟別人說話。
01:51
And you know what?
35
99880
1151
你們知道嗎？
01:53
That other person has an opinion too,
36
101055
2453
那個「別人」也有他自己的意見，
01:55
and it's drama, remember,
conflict -- they disagree with me.
conflict -- they disagree with me.
37
103532
3404
這是戲劇，記得要有衝突——
他們不認同我說的。
他們不認同我說的。
01:59
There's a conflict between
two points of view.
two points of view.
38
107522
2945
在兩種觀點之間有衝突存在。
02:02
And the thesis of that
is that the truth can only emerge
is that the truth can only emerge
39
110491
6296
而那麼做的論點在於，
唯一會有真相浮現的地方，
唯一會有真相浮現的地方，
02:08
in the conflict
of different points of view.
of different points of view.
40
116811
2272
就是兩種不同觀點衝突的地方。
02:11
It's not the possession of any one person.
41
119107
2734
真相並非任何人所擁有的。
02:13
And if you believe in democracy,
you have to believe that.
you have to believe that.
42
121865
3810
如果你相信民主，你就會相信這點。
02:18
If you don't believe that,
you're an autocrat
you're an autocrat
43
126136
2440
如果你不相信這點，你就是獨裁者，
02:20
who is putting up with democracy.
44
128600
1666
只是在忍受民主。
02:22
But that's the basic thesis of democracy,
45
130778
2520
但那就是民主的基本論點，
02:25
that the conflict of different
points of views leads to the truth.
points of views leads to the truth.
46
133322
3129
不同觀點的衝突會導出真相。
02:28
What's the other thing that's happening?
47
136475
1959
另外，還會發生另一件事。
02:30
I'm not asking you to sit back
and listen to me.
and listen to me.
48
138458
2643
我並沒有請你們坐好聽我說。
02:33
I'm asking you to lean forward
49
141125
2251
我是在請你們向前傾，
02:35
and imagine my point of view --
50
143400
3082
想像我的觀點——
02:38
what this looks like and feels like
to me as a character.
to me as a character.
51
146506
3599
當我是個「角色」的時候，
看起來跟感覺起來就是這樣子的。
看起來跟感覺起來就是這樣子的。
02:42
And then I'm asking you
to switch your mind
to switch your mind
52
150129
2932
接著我會請你們轉換一下頭腦，
02:45
and imagine what it feels like
to the other person talking.
to the other person talking.
53
153085
3352
想像一下身為另一位
在說話的人，感覺是什麼。
在說話的人，感覺是什麼。
02:49
I'm asking you to exercise empathy.
54
157002
2938
我是在請你們行使「同理心」。
02:52
And the idea that truth comes
from the collision of different ideas
from the collision of different ideas
55
160671
3844
「真相來自不同想法的碰撞」
這個概念，
這個概念，
02:56
and the emotional muscle of empathy
56
164539
2893
以及同理心的情緒肌肉，
02:59
are the necessary tools
for democratic citizenship.
for democratic citizenship.
57
167456
3575
都是民主公民權所必要的工具。
03:03
What else happens?
58
171722
1983
還會發生什麼？
03:05
The third thing really is you,
59
173729
2247
會發生的第三件事其實就是你，
03:08
is the community itself, is the audience.
60
176000
2802
是共同體本身，是觀眾。
03:11
And you know from personal experience
that when you go to the movies,
that when you go to the movies,
61
179322
3989
你們從自己的個人經驗
都知道，去看電影時，
都知道，去看電影時，
03:15
you walk into a movie theater,
and if it's empty, you're delighted,
and if it's empty, you're delighted,
62
183335
3248
當走進電影戲院，
發現影廳中都沒人，你會很開心，
發現影廳中都沒人，你會很開心，
03:18
because nothing's going to be
between you and the movie.
between you and the movie.
63
186607
2658
因為你和電影之間不會有任何阻礙。
03:21
You can spread out, put your legs
over the top of the stadium seats,
over the top of the stadium seats,
64
189289
3212
你可以大方伸展開來，
把腳放到前排的椅子上，
把腳放到前排的椅子上，
03:24
eat your popcorn and just enjoy it.
65
192525
1708
吃你的爆米花，好好享受。
03:26
But if you walk into a live theater
66
194257
1902
但當你走入現場演出的戲院，
03:28
and you see that the theater is half full,
67
196183
2443
看到觀眾席已經半滿，
03:30
your heart sinks.
68
198650
1292
你的心會沉下來。
03:32
You're disappointed immediately,
69
200420
2057
你馬上會感到失望，
03:34
because whether you knew it or not,
70
202501
1999
因為不論你是否知道，
03:36
you were coming to that theater
71
204524
1896
你去到那間戲院，
03:38
to be part of an audience.
72
206444
1855
就是成為觀眾的一部分。
03:40
You were coming to have
the collective experience
the collective experience
73
208323
2909
你是來取得集體經驗的，
03:43
of laughing together, crying together,
holding your breath together
holding your breath together
74
211256
3571
大家一起笑、一起哭、一起摒息，
03:46
to see what's going to happen next.
75
214851
1725
等著看接下來會發生什麼。
03:48
You may have walked into that theater
as an individual consumer,
as an individual consumer,
76
216600
4483
你走入那間戲院時，
或許只是一個個體的客人，
或許只是一個個體的客人，
03:53
but if the theater does its job,
77
221107
2627
但如果戲院有做好它的工作，
03:55
you've walked out with a sense
of yourself as part of a whole,
of yourself as part of a whole,
78
223758
3683
當你走出戲院時，
你會覺得你自己是整體的一部分，
你會覺得你自己是整體的一部分，
03:59
as part of a community.
79
227465
1416
共同體的一部分，
04:01
That's built into the DNA of my art form.
80
229643
4011
內建在我藝術形式的 DNA 當中。
04:06
Twenty-five hundred years later,
Joe Papp decided
Joe Papp decided
81
234678
4542
2500 年後，約瑟夫帕普決定，
04:11
that the culture should belong to
everybody in the United States of America,
everybody in the United States of America,
82
239244
3959
文化應該屬於美國的每一個人，
04:15
and that it was his job
to try to deliver on that promise.
to try to deliver on that promise.
83
243227
3796
而他的工作就是要實現這項承諾。
04:19
He created Free Shakespeare in the Park.
84
247047
2878
他創建了「公園中的
免費莎士比亞」戲院。
免費莎士比亞」戲院。
04:21
And Free Shakespeare in the Park
is based on a very simple idea,
is based on a very simple idea,
85
249949
3096
「公園中的免費莎士比亞」
根據很簡單的想法，
根據很簡單的想法，
04:25
the idea that the best theater,
the best art that we can produce,
the best art that we can produce,
86
253069
4570
這個想法就是：最好的戲院，
我們所能產出最好的藝術，
我們所能產出最好的藝術，
04:29
should go to everybody
and belong to everybody,
and belong to everybody,
87
257663
2810
應該要接觸到每個人，
應該屬於每個人，
應該屬於每個人，
04:32
and to this day,
88
260497
1741
而至今，
04:34
every summer night in Central Park,
89
262262
2389
在中央公園，每個夏日晚上，
04:36
2,000 people are lining up
90
264675
2377
會有 2000 人排隊，
04:39
to see the best theater
we can provide for free.
we can provide for free.
91
267076
3624
要看我們能提供的最好的戲劇。
04:42
It's not a commercial transaction.
92
270724
2842
那不是商業交易。
04:45
In 1967, 13 years
after he figured that out,
after he figured that out,
93
273590
4471
1967 年，在他想通了
這件事的 13 年後，
這件事的 13 年後，
04:50
he figured out something else,
94
278085
1647
他又想通了另一件事，
04:51
which is that the democratic
circle was not complete
circle was not complete
95
279756
3557
那就是，只把經典給予人民，
04:55
by just giving the people the classics.
96
283337
3227
還不夠讓民主圓圈變完整。
04:58
We had to actually let the people
create their own classics
create their own classics
97
286588
3537
我們得要真正讓人民
去創作他們自己的經典，
去創作他們自己的經典，
05:02
and take the stage.
98
290149
1815
站上舞台。
05:03
And so in 1967,
99
291988
2057
所以，在 1967 年，
05:06
Joe opened the Public Theater
downtown on Astor Place,
downtown on Astor Place,
100
294069
3059
喬瑟夫在阿斯托廣場鬧區
開了一間公眾劇院，
開了一間公眾劇院，
05:09
and the first show he ever produced
was the world premiere of "Hair."
was the world premiere of "Hair."
101
297152
4218
他所製作的第一場演出，
就是《毛髮》的首演。
就是《毛髮》的首演。
05:13
That's the first thing he ever did
that wasn't Shakespeare.
that wasn't Shakespeare.
102
301394
2788
這也是他第一次做
不是莎士比亞的戲劇。
不是莎士比亞的戲劇。
05:16
Clive Barnes in The Times said
that it was as if Mr. Papp took a broom
that it was as if Mr. Papp took a broom
103
304206
3311
《紐約時報》的克萊夫巴恩斯說，
那彷彿就是帕普拿了一支掃帚，
那彷彿就是帕普拿了一支掃帚，
05:19
and swept up all the refuse
from the East Village streets
from the East Village streets
104
307541
3262
把東村街道上的
所有拒絕，通通掃到
所有拒絕，通通掃到
05:22
onto the stage at the Public.
105
310827
2339
公眾劇院的舞台上。
05:25
(Laughter)
106
313190
1004
（笑聲）
05:26
He didn't mean it complementarily,
107
314218
1777
他並沒有讚美的意思，
05:28
but Joe put it up in the lobby,
he was so proud of it.
he was so proud of it.
108
316019
3531
但喬瑟夫把這篇報導
陳列在大廳，他感到好驕傲。
陳列在大廳，他感到好驕傲。
05:31
(Laughter) (Applause)
109
319574
1476
（笑聲）（掌聲）
05:33
And what the Public Theater did over
the next years with amazing shows like
the next years with amazing shows like
110
321074
4420
在接下來的幾年，
公眾劇院有許多出色的節目，
公眾劇院有許多出色的節目，
05:37
"For Colored Girls Who Have Considered
Suicide / When the Rainbow Is Enuf,"
Suicide / When the Rainbow Is Enuf,"
111
325518
3524
像是《給那些當彩虹出現，
就要考慮自殺的有色女孩》、
就要考慮自殺的有色女孩》、
05:41
"A Chorus Line,"
112
329066
2768
《歌舞線上》，
05:43
and -- here's the most extraordinary
example I can think of:
example I can think of:
113
331858
4032
以及——這是我所能想出
最不凡的例子：
最不凡的例子：
05:47
Larry Kramer's savage cry of rage
about the AIDS crisis,
about the AIDS crisis,
114
335914
5254
拉里克萊默出於愛滋病的憤怒
而發出野性吶喊的作品，
而發出野性吶喊的作品，
05:53
"The Normal Heart."
115
341192
1322
《血熱之心》。
05:54
Because when Joe produced
that play in 1985,
that play in 1985,
116
342880
4049
因為當喬瑟夫在 1985 年
製作那齣劇作的時候，
製作那齣劇作的時候，
05:58
there was more information about AIDS
117
346953
3042
在《紐約時報》上
法蘭克瑞奇的評論中，
法蘭克瑞奇的評論中，
06:02
in Frank Rich's review
in the New York Times
in the New York Times
118
350019
3191
關於愛滋病的資訊量比《紐約時報》
06:05
than the New York Times had published
in the previous four years.
in the previous four years.
119
353234
3426
前四年所出版的所有資訊
加起來都還要多。
加起來都還要多。
06:08
Larry was actually changing
the dialogue about AIDS
the dialogue about AIDS
120
356684
4400
拉里透過撰寫這部作品的方式，
來改變關於愛滋病的對話，
06:13
through writing this play,
121
361108
1387
06:14
and Joe was by producing it.
122
362519
1403
而喬瑟夫是製作人。
06:15
I was blessed to commission and work
on Tony Kushner's "Angels in America,"
on Tony Kushner's "Angels in America,"
123
363946
4445
我很有福氣，受到委任做了
東尼庫許納的《天使在美國》，
東尼庫許納的《天使在美國》，
06:20
and when doing that play
and along with "Normal Heart,"
and along with "Normal Heart,"
124
368415
3648
在做那齣戲和《血熱之心》的時候，
06:24
we could see that the culture
was actually shifting,
was actually shifting,
125
372087
3348
我們可以看出，文化真的在轉變，
06:27
and it wasn't caused by the theater,
126
375459
2029
並不是由戲院所造成的，
06:29
but the theater was doing its part
127
377512
2455
但戲院有扮演好它的角色，
06:31
to change what it meant to be gay
in the United States.
in the United States.
128
379991
4275
改變了在美國被認為很娘的定義。
06:36
And I'm incredibly proud of that.
129
384290
1840
對此我感到非常驕傲。
06:38
(Applause)
130
386605
1893
（掌聲）
06:40
When I took over Joe's old job
at the Public in 2005,
at the Public in 2005,
131
388522
4796
2005 年，我接下了
喬瑟夫在公眾劇院的工作，
喬瑟夫在公眾劇院的工作，
06:45
I realized one of the problems we had
was a victim of our own success,
was a victim of our own success,
132
393342
3735
我了解到我們的問題之一，
其實是由我們自己的成功所造成，
其實是由我們自己的成功所造成，
06:49
which is: Shakespeare in the Park
had been founded as a program for access,
had been founded as a program for access,
133
397101
5025
就是：公園中的莎士比亞成立時
是要成為大家都可使用的計畫，
是要成為大家都可使用的計畫，
06:54
and it was now the hardest ticket
to get in New York City.
to get in New York City.
134
402150
3551
而它現在是紐約市中最難取得的票。
06:57
People slept out for two nights
to get those tickets.
to get those tickets.
135
405725
3915
大家要在門外過夜排隊
兩個晚上，才能買到票。
兩個晚上，才能買到票。
07:01
What was that doing?
136
409664
1157
那是怎麼回事？
07:02
That was eliminating
98 percent of the population
98 percent of the population
137
410845
2593
那會讓 98% 的人
07:05
from even considering going to it.
138
413462
1829
完全不考慮要去那裡了。
07:07
So we refounded the mobile unit
139
415315
2230
所以我們重新成立了一個行動組，
07:09
and took Shakespeare to prisons,
to homeless shelters,
to homeless shelters,
140
417569
3079
把莎士比亞帶到監獄、遊民收容所、
07:12
to community centers in all five boroughs
141
420672
2488
所有五個行政區，甚至紐澤西
07:15
and even in New Jersey
and Westchester County.
and Westchester County.
142
423184
2691
和威斯特徹斯特郡的社區中心。
07:17
And that program proved something to us
that we knew intuitively:
that we knew intuitively:
143
425899
4204
該計畫向我們證明了一件事，
和我們本來的直覺相符：
和我們本來的直覺相符：
07:22
people's need for theater
is as powerful as their desire for food
is as powerful as their desire for food
144
430127
4740
大家對於戲院的需求，
和他們對食物或飲水的慾望
和他們對食物或飲水的慾望
07:26
or for drink.
145
434891
1244
一樣強大。
07:28
It's been an extraordinary success,
and we've continued it.
and we've continued it.
146
436560
2843
這計畫一直非常成功，
我們還在持繼進行。
我們還在持繼進行。
07:31
And then there was yet another barrier
that we realized we weren't crossing,
that we realized we weren't crossing,
147
439427
3689
接著，還有一個障礙，
我們一直都還沒跨越，
我們一直都還沒跨越，
07:35
which is a barrier of participation.
148
443140
2264
那就是參與的障礙。
07:37
And the idea, we said, is:
149
445428
1298
我們說，這個想法是：
07:38
How can we turn theater
from being a commodity, an object,
from being a commodity, an object,
150
446750
4519
我們要如何將戲院
從一種商品、一個物體，
從一種商品、一個物體，
07:43
back into what it really is --
151
451293
2242
轉變回它真正的本質——
07:45
a set of relationships among people?
152
453559
2539
人之間的一組關係？
07:48
And under the guidance
of the amazing Lear deBessonet,
of the amazing Lear deBessonet,
153
456122
2892
在李爾戴本森奈特
很了不起的指導之下，
很了不起的指導之下，
07:51
we started the Public Works program,
154
459038
1878
我們開始了「公眾作品」計畫，
07:52
which now every summer produces
155
460940
1892
現在，每年夏天，這個計畫
07:54
these immense Shakespearean
musical pageants,
musical pageants,
156
462856
2842
都會製作這些超棒的音樂盛會，
07:57
where Tony Award-winning
actors and musicians
actors and musicians
157
465722
2764
在盛會中，得過東尼獎的演員
08:00
are side by side with nannies
and domestic workers
and domestic workers
158
468510
3846
和音樂家會與褓姆、
國內的工人、退伍軍人、
國內的工人、退伍軍人、
08:04
and military veterans
and recently incarcerated prisoners,
and recently incarcerated prisoners,
159
472380
3874
剛出獄的犯人、
業餘玩家，以及職業專家
業餘玩家，以及職業專家
08:08
amateurs and professionals,
160
476278
1595
肩並肩攜手合作，
08:09
performing together on the same stage.
161
477897
2434
一起同台演出。
08:12
And it's not just a great social program,
162
480355
1997
它不只是個很棒的社會計畫，
08:14
it's the best art that we do.
163
482376
2110
它是我們所能做出最棒的藝術。
08:16
And the thesis of it is
that artistry is not something
that artistry is not something
164
484825
4129
它的論點是：藝術才能並不是
08:20
that is the possession of a few.
165
488978
2091
少數人所擁有的。
08:23
Artistry is inherent
in being a human being.
in being a human being.
166
491093
3368
身為人，天生就有藝術才能。
08:26
Some of us just get to spend
a lot more of our lives practicing it.
a lot more of our lives practicing it.
167
494485
3599
只是我們當中有些人
花了更多時間在練習它。
花了更多時間在練習它。
08:31
And then occasionally --
168
499252
1151
然後，偶爾——
08:32
(Applause)
169
500427
1898
（掌聲）
08:34
you get a miracle like "Hamilton,"
170
502349
2103
就會出現奇蹟，像《漢密爾頓》，
08:36
Lin-Manuel's extraordinary retelling
of the foundational story of this country
of the foundational story of this country
171
504476
6120
林曼努爾重新訴說這個國家
開國故事的不凡之作，
開國故事的不凡之作，
08:42
through the eyes of the only Founding
Father who was a bastard immigrant orphan
Father who was a bastard immigrant orphan
172
510620
4806
透過開國先驅的視角來呈現，
而他是來自西印度群島的
而他是來自西印度群島的
08:47
from the West Indies.
173
515450
1556
私生子移民孤兒。
08:49
And what Lin was doing
174
517030
1738
林所做的，
08:50
is exactly what Shakespeare was doing.
175
518792
2463
就是莎士比亞所做的。
08:53
He was taking the voice of the people,
the language of the people,
the language of the people,
176
521645
4209
他將人民的聲音、人民的語言
08:57
elevating it into verse,
177
525878
2257
提升成為詩節，
09:00
and by doing so,
178
528159
1564
藉由這麼做，
09:01
ennobling the language
179
529747
1801
讓那語言變得更尊貴，
09:03
and ennobling the people
who spoke the language.
who spoke the language.
180
531572
3337
也讓說那語言的人民變得更尊貴。
09:06
And by casting that show entirely
with a cast of black and brown people,
with a cast of black and brown people,
181
534933
4784
全劇的卡司用的
全部都是黑色和褐色皮膚的人，
全部都是黑色和褐色皮膚的人，
09:11
what Lin was saying to us,
182
539741
2463
林想要對我們說的是，
09:14
he was reviving in us
183
542228
2604
他要喚醒我們心中
09:16
our greatest aspirations
for the United States,
for the United States,
184
544856
3595
美國最偉大的熱望，
09:20
our better angels of America,
185
548475
2351
我們更好的美國天使，
09:22
our sense of what this country could be,
186
550850
2405
我們對於這個國家
能夠成為什麼樣子的看法，
能夠成為什麼樣子的看法，
09:25
the inclusion that was at the heart
of the American Dream.
of the American Dream.
187
553279
4139
位在美國夢核心位置的包容。
09:29
And it unleashed
a wave of patriotism in me
a wave of patriotism in me
188
557442
4226
它在我體內、我們觀眾體內，
釋放出一波愛國主義，
09:33
and in our audience,
189
561692
1322
09:35
the appetite for which
is proving to be insatiable.
is proving to be insatiable.
190
563038
3827
已經證明，對此的胃口
是不會被滿足的。
是不會被滿足的。
09:40
But there was another side to that,
and it's where I want to end,
and it's where I want to end,
191
568132
3093
但還有另一個面向，
我想用這個面向來作結，
我想用這個面向來作結，
09:43
and it's the last story
I want to talk about.
I want to talk about.
192
571249
2171
這是我想要談的最後一個故事。
09:45
Some of you may have heard
that Vice President-elect Pence
that Vice President-elect Pence
193
573444
2772
在座有些人可能聽過
當選而尚未就任的副總統彭斯
當選而尚未就任的副總統彭斯
09:48
came to see "Hamilton" in New York.
194
576240
2722
來紐約看《漢密爾頓》。
09:50
And when he came in,
some of my fellow New Yorkers booed him.
some of my fellow New Yorkers booed him.
195
578986
4054
當他進來時，一些紐約人
對他發出噓聲。
對他發出噓聲。
09:55
And beautifully, he said,
196
583064
1835
他說了句很棒的話：
09:56
"That's what freedom sounds like."
197
584923
2050
「那就是自由的聲音。」
09:59
And at the end of the show,
198
587799
1372
在節目的最後，
10:01
we read what I feel was a very
respectful statement from the stage,
respectful statement from the stage,
199
589195
3193
我們在舞台上讀了
我認為非常有敬意的聲明，
我認為非常有敬意的聲明，
10:04
and Vice President-elect Pence
listened to it,
listened to it,
200
592412
2855
而彭斯副總統聽了它，
10:07
but it sparked a certain amount
of outrage, a tweetstorm,
of outrage, a tweetstorm,
201
595790
3905
但它點燃了某些怒火和推特風暴，
10:11
and also an internet boycott of "Hamilton"
202
599719
3574
還有針對《漢密爾頓》的
一項網路抵制活動，
一項網路抵制活動，
10:15
from outraged people who had felt
we had treated him with disrespect.
we had treated him with disrespect.
203
603317
4136
發動者是憤怒的人，
他們覺得我們不尊重他。
他們覺得我們不尊重他。
10:20
I looked at that boycott and I said,
we're getting something wrong here.
we're getting something wrong here.
204
608142
3925
我看著那抵制，我說，
我們有什麼地方出了差錯。
我們有什麼地方出了差錯。
10:24
All of these people who have signed
this boycott petition,
this boycott petition,
205
612091
3319
所有這些簽署了抵制請願的人，
10:27
they were never going to see
"Hamilton" anyway.
"Hamilton" anyway.
206
615434
2265
反正他們永遠不會去看《漢密爾頓》。
10:30
It was never going to come
to a city near them.
to a city near them.
207
618052
2585
該劇永遠不會到
他們鄰近的城市演出。
他們鄰近的城市演出。
10:32
If it could come,
they couldn't afford a ticket,
they couldn't afford a ticket,
208
620661
2559
就算有，他們也買不起票，
10:35
and if they could afford a ticket,
they didn't have the connections
they didn't have the connections
209
623244
3492
就算買得起票，他們也沒有人脈
10:38
to get that ticket.
210
626760
1401
可以取得票。
10:40
They weren't boycotting us;
211
628691
1855
他們不是在抵制我們；
10:43
we had boycotted them.
212
631066
2032
我們已經先抵制了他們。
10:46
And if you look at the red and blue
electoral map of the United States,
electoral map of the United States,
213
634187
4296
如果你看看標上藍色
和紅色的美國選舉地圖，
和紅色的美國選舉地圖，
10:50
and if I were to tell you,
214
638507
1313
如果我告訴你：
10:51
"Oh, the blue is what designates
215
639844
2055
「喔，藍色標記代表
10:53
all of the major nonprofit
cultural institutions,"
cultural institutions,"
216
641923
2956
所有主要的非營利文化機構。」
10:56
I'd be telling you the truth.
217
644903
1435
那我告訴你的是真相。
10:58
You'd believe me.
218
646362
1206
你會相信我。
10:59
We in the culture have done
exactly what the economy,
exactly what the economy,
219
647592
4603
在文化上，我們所做的事，
完全和在經濟上、
完全和在經濟上、
11:04
what the educational system,
what technology has done,
what technology has done,
220
652219
3630
教育體制上、科技上所做的一樣，
11:07
which is turn our back
on a large part of the country.
on a large part of the country.
221
655873
3675
那就是背棄了這個國家大部分的人。
11:12
So this idea of inclusion,
it has to keep going.
it has to keep going.
222
660100
3010
所以，這個包容的概念
得要持續下去。
得要持續下去。
11:15
Next fall, we are sending out on tour
223
663134
3122
明年秋天，我們有一場巡迴演出，
11:18
a production of Lynn Nottage's brilliant,
Pulitzer Prize-winning play "Sweat."
Pulitzer Prize-winning play "Sweat."
224
666280
5189
演出作品是讓林恩諾塔吉得了
普立茲獎的出色劇作《汗水》。
普立茲獎的出色劇作《汗水》。
11:23
Years of research in Redding, Pennsylvania
led her to write this play
led her to write this play
225
671493
4379
她花了數年時間
在賓州的雷丁做研究，
在賓州的雷丁做研究，
11:27
about the deindustrialization
of Pennsylvania:
of Pennsylvania:
226
675896
3225
寫下這齣關於賓州去工業化的劇作：
11:31
what happened when steel left,
227
679145
2648
如果鋼鐵工業外移會是怎樣的情況，
11:33
the rage that was unleashed,
228
681817
2260
被釋放出來的怒火，
11:36
the tensions that were unleashed,
229
684101
1631
被釋放出來的壓力，
11:37
the racism that was unleashed
230
685756
2260
被釋放出來的種族主義，
11:40
by the loss of jobs.
231
688040
1492
都會因失業而起。
11:41
We're taking that play
and we're touring it
and we're touring it
232
689949
2975
我們巡迴演出這齣劇的地點
11:44
to rural counties in Pennsylvania,
233
692948
2789
是較偏鄉的郡，在包括賓州、
11:47
Ohio, Michigan,
234
695761
2228
俄亥俄州、密西根州、
11:50
Minnesota and Wisconsin.
235
698013
2327
明尼蘇達州，和威斯康辛州。
11:52
We're partnering with community
organizations there to try and make sure
organizations there to try and make sure
236
700364
4461
我們和當地社區組織合作，
以確保我們不僅能觸及到
我們試圖觸及的族群，
我們試圖觸及的族群，
11:56
not only that we reach the people
that we're trying to reach,
that we're trying to reach,
237
704849
3926
12:00
but that we find ways
to listen to them back
to listen to them back
238
708799
2878
同時也能有方法
反過來傾聽他們的聲音，
反過來傾聽他們的聲音，
12:03
and say, "The culture
is here for you, too."
is here for you, too."
239
711701
3633
並說：「文化也到這裡來見你了。」
12:07
Because --
240
715962
1153
因為——
12:09
(Applause)
241
717139
2428
（掌聲）
12:11
we in the culture industry,
242
719591
2146
我們這些在文化產業的人，
12:13
we in the theater,
243
721761
2099
我們這些在戲院的人，
12:15
have no right to say
that we don't know what our job is.
that we don't know what our job is.
244
723884
3612
沒有權利說我們不知道
我們的職責是什麼。
我們的職責是什麼。
12:19
It's in the DNA of our art form.
245
727520
2026
它內建在我們
藝術形式的 DNA 當中。
藝術形式的 DNA 當中。
12:21
Our job "... is to hold up,
as 'twere, a mirror to nature;
as 'twere, a mirror to nature;
246
729570
4659
我們的職責是
「彷彿要舉起大自然的鏡子，
「彷彿要舉起大自然的鏡子，
12:26
to show scorn her image,
247
734253
2679
讓輕蔑看見她的影像，
12:28
to show virtue her appearance,
248
736956
3033
讓美德看見她的外表，
12:32
and the very age its form and pressure."
249
740013
3264
讓這個時代看到它的形式和壓力。」
12:35
Our job is to try to hold up
a vision to America
a vision to America
250
743301
4369
我們的職責是要支撐著美國的遠景，
12:39
that shows not only
who all of us are individually,
who all of us are individually,
251
747694
4063
這個遠景呈現的不只是
我們每個人各別的身份，
我們每個人各別的身份，
12:43
but that welds us back into
the commonality that we need to be,
the commonality that we need to be,
252
751781
4307
還有它將我們結合起來，
重新成為我們需要成為的共性，
重新成為我們需要成為的共性，
12:48
the sense of unity,
253
756112
1810
一體的感受，
12:49
the sense of whole,
254
757946
1672
整體的感受，
12:51
the sense of who we are as a country.
255
759642
2148
我們身為一個國家的感受。
12:54
That's what the theater is supposed to do,
256
762398
2727
那是戲院應該要做的事，
12:57
and that's what we need to try to do
as well as we can.
as well as we can.
257
765149
2629
那是我們應該盡力而為
試著去做的事。
試著去做的事。
12:59
Thank you very much.
258
767802
1276
非常謝謝各位。
13:01
(Applause)
259
769102
4898
（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Oskar Eustis - Theater directorAs the artistic director of New York's legendary Public Theater, Oskar Eustis nurtures new, groundbreaking works that shift the cultural conversation.
Why you should listen
Throughout his career, Oskar Eustis has been dedicated to the development of new plays and the classics as a director, dramaturg and producer. Among the plays he's helped bring into being, you can count Angels in America, the Tony-winning Hamilton and Fun Home, with more new work constantly on the bubble. Throughout his career, he has also produced and directed Shakespeare in venues around the US, from prisons to Broadway, including The Public's 2017 free Shakespeare in the Park staging of Julius Ceasar that generated a national conversation.
Eustis has also directed the world premieres of plays by Philip Kan Gotanda, David Henry Hwang, Emily Mann, Suzan-Lori Parks, Ellen McLaughlin and Eduardo Machado, among many others. He's a professor of dramatic writing and arts and public policy at New York University and has held professorships at UCLA, Middlebury College and Brown University, where he founded and chaired the Trinity Rep/Brown University consortium for professional theater training. He has been Artistic Director of The Public Theater in New York since 2005.
Oskar Eustis | Speaker | TED.com