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Naomi McDougall Jones: What it's like to be a woman in Hollywood
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What we see in movies matters: it affects our hobbies, our career choices, our emotions and even our identities. Right now, we don't see enough women on screen or behind the camera -- but waiting for Hollywood to grow a conscience isn't going to fix the problem, says Naomi McDougall Jones. Join forces with the actor and activist as she outlines her four-point plan for a total representation revolution in Hollywood.
Naomi McDougall Jones - Actress, writer, producer, activist
Naomi McDougall Jones is a vocal advocate and activist for bringing gender parity to film, both on and off screen. Full bio
Naomi McDougall Jones is a vocal advocate and activist for bringing gender parity to film, both on and off screen. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
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I'm going to begin today with a story
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and end with a revolution.
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(Laughter)
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Are you ready?
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Audience: Yes!
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Naomi McDougall-Jones: Here's the story.
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All my life I wanted to be an actress.
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From the time I was very small,
I could feel the magic of storytelling
I could feel the magic of storytelling
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and I wanted to be a part of it.
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So, at the ripe age of 21,
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I graduated from the American
Academy of Dramatic Arts
Academy of Dramatic Arts
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in New York City,
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bright-eyed and bushy-tailed,
and ready to take my rightful place
and ready to take my rightful place
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as the next Meryl Streep.
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That's my grandmother, not Meryl Streep.
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(Laughter)
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Now, it's important for this story
that you understand
that you understand
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that I was raised by a raging feminist.
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I mean, just to give you some idea:
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when I was five or six years old
and obsessed with "The Sound of Music,"
and obsessed with "The Sound of Music,"
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and running around, singing,
"I am 16 going on 17,"
"I am 16 going on 17,"
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all day every day,
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my mother sat me down
for a very serious conversation
for a very serious conversation
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and she said, "OK, look.
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I'm not going to say
that you can't sing that song,
that you can't sing that song,
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but if you are going to sing that song,
I do need you to understand
I do need you to understand
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the extremely problematic
gender construct that it reinforces."
gender construct that it reinforces."
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(Laughter)
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So that's where I come from.
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So it just honestly never
even occurred to me
even occurred to me
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that I would be prevented
from doing anything in my life
from doing anything in my life
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because I'm a woman.
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OK. So I graduate.
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And I start auditioning
and I get work, slowly.
and I get work, slowly.
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But I just start noticing
that the parts available for women
that the parts available for women
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are terrible.
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But, remember -- I came here
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to play smart, willful,
complicated, interesting
complicated, interesting
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complex, confident
female characters, right?
female characters, right?
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Like Meryl.
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And all of the sudden,
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I am wrestling with 300 other
gorgeous, talented women
gorgeous, talented women
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to play ...
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"[Female] No dialogue.
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The character only needs
to stand on a balcony,
to stand on a balcony,
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look forlorn, and walk back
inside the house.
inside the house.
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Only partial nudity."
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(Laughter)
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"[Sarah] Brian's love interest.
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Attractive, cute, and flirty,
she is the ideal girl and Brian's prize
she is the ideal girl and Brian's prize
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throughout the entire film."
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"[Mom] A proper Southern belle
who is making peace with the fact
who is making peace with the fact
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that her only purpose in life
is to tend to her husband."
is to tend to her husband."
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"[Abby] Must be OK
with a tastefully shot gang rape,
with a tastefully shot gang rape,
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along with performing 19th-century dance."
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(Laughter)
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Those are actual casting notices.
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And so I just mentioned this
to my agent one day,
to my agent one day,
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I say, "I feel like I'm not really
going in for parts
going in for parts
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that I'm actually excited about playing.
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And he said, "Yeah. I don't really know
what to do with you.
what to do with you.
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You're too smart for the parts
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that are being written
for women in their 20s,
for women in their 20s,
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and you're not quite pretty enough
to be the hot one,
to be the hot one,
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so I think you'll work when you're 35."
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(Laughter)
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And I said, "Oh. That's funny.
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I always thought that when you were 35,
you were kind of, like,
you were kind of, like,
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over the hill as an actress,
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that you were relegated to playing
20-year-olds' mothers."
20-year-olds' mothers."
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And he said, "Yeah --
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(Laughter)
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It's just the way it is."
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So, maybe a year or so after this,
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I'm having lunch
with an actress friend of mine,
with an actress friend of mine,
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and we're talking about
how insane this is.
how insane this is.
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And we decide, you know what? No problem.
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We'll just make our own movie.
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And I'll write and then I'll write it
about two complex female characters.
about two complex female characters.
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So we do.
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We set out to make this movie,
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and sort of accidentally, we end up hiring
an all-female production team:
an all-female production team:
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the writer, directors, producers,
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and it's a film about two women.
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And so pretty soon,
we're sitting in the office
we're sitting in the office
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of a successful male producer,
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and he goes, "OK, girls.
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So, you do understand that at some point
you are going to have to hire
you are going to have to hire
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a male producer onboard, right?
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Just so that people
will trust you with their money."
will trust you with their money."
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Over and over again, people tell us,
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"Yeah, but people don't really
want to see films about women,
want to see films about women,
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so maybe you should think about
making something else.
making something else.
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It's just the way it is."
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So we make the movie, anyway.
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We scrape together 80,000 dollars,
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and we make it, and it does so well.
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It gets into tons of festivals
and we win a lot of awards
and we win a lot of awards
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and it's big and exciting.
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But these experiences I've had
just keep rubbing at me.
just keep rubbing at me.
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And so, I just start talking about them,
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first, at Q and A's after
screenings of the film,
screenings of the film,
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and then I get invited to be on panels
and talk at conferences.
and talk at conferences.
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And the really amazing thing
is that, to begin with,
is that, to begin with,
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when I'm just talking to audiences
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and other people, you know,
coming up in the film industry,
coming up in the film industry,
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the universal reaction is,
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"Oh my god! This is terrible.
What do we do about this?"
What do we do about this?"
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But the bigger panels I get on,
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suddenly an Oscar nominee tells me,
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"Look, I totally agree
with everything you're saying.
with everything you're saying.
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You just need to be really careful
about where you say it."
about where you say it."
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An Oscar-winning producer tells me
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that she doesn't think it's a good idea
to play the woman card.
to play the woman card.
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It's just the way it is.
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And I think this is how
sexism continues on in 2016, right?
sexism continues on in 2016, right?
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For the most part, it happens casually --
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unconsciously, even.
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It happens because people
are just trying to get along
are just trying to get along
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within an existing system.
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It happens, maybe, out of a genuine desire
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to teach a young woman
the way that the world "just is."
the way that the world "just is."
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The problem is that unless we do
something about it,
something about it,
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that is the way the world will always be.
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So why should you care about this?
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Right?
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I mean, we're facing some rather
significant problems in the world
significant problems in the world
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just at present,
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what does it really matter
if I can't get a job,
if I can't get a job,
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or you're stuck watching
"Transformer 17," right?
"Transformer 17," right?
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(Laughter)
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Well, let me put it to you this way:
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the year "Jaws" came out,
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Americans suddenly started listing
"sharks" among their top 10 major fears.
"sharks" among their top 10 major fears.
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In 1995, BMW paid the James Bond franchise
three million dollars
three million dollars
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to have James Bond switch
from driving an Aston Martin
from driving an Aston Martin
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to a BMW Z3.
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That one move caused so many people
to go out and buy that car,
to go out and buy that car,
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that BMW made 240 million dollars
in pre-sales alone.
in pre-sales alone.
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The year that "Brave"
and "Hunger Games" came out,
and "Hunger Games" came out,
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female participation in archery
went up 105 percent.
went up 105 percent.
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(Laughter)
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In fact, studies show
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that the movies you watch
don't just affect your hobbies,
don't just affect your hobbies,
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they affect your career choices,
your emotions, your sense of identity,
your emotions, your sense of identity,
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your relationships, your mental health --
even your marital status.
even your marital status.
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So now, consider this:
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if you have watched
mostly American movies in your lifetime,
mostly American movies in your lifetime,
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95 percent of all the films
you have ever seen
you have ever seen
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were directed by men.
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Somewhere between 80 and 90 percent
of all of the leading characters
of all of the leading characters
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that you have ever seen
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were men.
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And even if we just talk about
the last five years,
the last five years,
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55 percent of the time
that you have seen a woman in a movie,
that you have seen a woman in a movie,
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she was naked or scantily clad.
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That affects you.
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That affects all of us.
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We actually can't even imagine
how much it affects us,
how much it affects us,
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because this is all we've ever had.
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Stories -- and movies
are just modern stories --
are just modern stories --
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are not frivolous.
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They're actually the mechanism
through which we process
through which we process
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our experience of being alive.
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They're the way
that we understand the world
that we understand the world
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and our place in it.
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They're the way we develop empathy
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for people who have experiences
different than our own.
different than our own.
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And right now, all of that
is being funneled at us
is being funneled at us
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through the prism of this one perspective.
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It's not that it's a bad perspective,
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but don't we deserve to hear them all?
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How would the world be different
if all of the stories were told?
if all of the stories were told?
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So what do we do about this?
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This may be the first time
a lot of you are hearing about this,
a lot of you are hearing about this,
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but a lot of us within the film industry
have spent years --
have spent years --
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a lot of people,
a lot longer than I have --
a lot longer than I have --
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giving speeches and doing panels
and writing articles
and writing articles
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and doing studies,
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and really just yelling at Hollywood
to do a better job about this.
to do a better job about this.
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I mean, we have really yelled at them.
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And yet, Paramount and Fox
recently released their slates,
recently released their slates,
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and of the 47 films that they will release
between now and 2017,
between now and 2017,
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not a single one
will be directed by a woman.
will be directed by a woman.
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So it is beginning to occur to me
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that waiting for Hollywood
to grow a conscience
to grow a conscience
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may not actually be a winning strategy.
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In fact, it seems to me
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that whenever there is a small,
ruling class of people
ruling class of people
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who have all of the money
and power and resources,
and power and resources,
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they're not actually that excited
about giving it up.
about giving it up.
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And so you don't get change by asking them
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or even yelling at them.
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You have to make that change happen
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through a revolution.
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Now, please don't worry --
I promise you, here, now, today,
I promise you, here, now, today,
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our body count will be very low.
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(Laughter)
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So, now before I get to my four-point
plan for the revolution --
plan for the revolution --
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yes, I have a four-point plan --
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I have two pieces of very good
and important news for you.
and important news for you.
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Good news number one:
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there are female filmmakers.
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(Cheers and applause)
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Yes! I know!
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(Applause)
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We exist!
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We actually graduate from film schools
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at the same rate that men
do -- 50 percent.
do -- 50 percent.
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So here we have our 50 women.
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The problem is that as soon as you get
to the micro-budget film,
to the micro-budget film,
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so even the very smallest films,
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we're already only directing 18 percent.
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Then you get to slightly bigger films,
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indies in the $1-5 million budget range,
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and we go down to 12 percent.
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So by the time you get
to the studio system,
to the studio system,
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we're only directing
five percent of movies.
five percent of movies.
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Now, I know some of you out there
will look at this
will look at this
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and secretly think to yourselves,
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"Well, maybe women
just aren't as good at directing movies."
just aren't as good at directing movies."
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And that's not a totally insane question.
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I mean, we like to believe
the film industry is a meritocracy, right?
the film industry is a meritocracy, right?
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(Laughs)
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(Laughter)
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But look at this trajectory.
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Either you have to accept
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that women are actually
five percent as talented as men,
five percent as talented as men,
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which I don't,
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or you have to accept
that there are serious systemic issues
that there are serious systemic issues
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preventing us from getting
from here to there.
from here to there.
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But the good news is, we exist,
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and there is a vast amount
of untapped potential over here.
of untapped potential over here.
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Good news number two,
and this is really good news:
and this is really good news:
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films by and about women make more money.
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Yes! Yes! It's true!
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(Cheers and applause)
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It's true.
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The Washington Post
recently released a study
recently released a study
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showing that films that feature women
make 23 cents more on every dollar
make 23 cents more on every dollar
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than films that don't.
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Furthermore, my colleagues and I
commissioned a study
commissioned a study
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comparing 1,700 films
made over the last five years
made over the last five years
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and, looking at the average
returns on investment --
returns on investment --
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so, how much money does that movie make --
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comparing if a man or a woman
filled each of the following roles:
filled each of the following roles:
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director, producer,
screenwriter and lead actor.
screenwriter and lead actor.
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And in every single category,
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the return on investment is higher
if it's a woman.
if it's a woman.
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Fact: women buy 51 percent
of all movie tickets.
of all movie tickets.
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Films by and about women make more money.
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And of course, at least
some portion of the male population
some portion of the male population
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does also like women --
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(Laughter)
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so "women films" are not just for women.
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And yet, Hollywood only targets
18 percent of all of their films
18 percent of all of their films
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as "women films."
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So what you're left with
is a giant underserved audience
is a giant underserved audience
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and untapped profit potential.
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So we exist, and we have stories to tell.
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We have so many stories to tell.
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And despite everything we've heard:
you want to see them.
you want to see them.
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The problem is, we've got this thing --
let's call it "Hollywood" --
let's call it "Hollywood" --
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(Laughter)
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no, no, I'm just kidding;
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I've met some very nice
people in Hollywood --
people in Hollywood --
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Hollywood, preventing us
from getting to you.
from getting to you.
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So here is my four-point plan
for the revolution,
for the revolution,
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and everybody -- man or woman,
in this room or anywhere in the world --
in this room or anywhere in the world --
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is going to get to help.
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And this revolution is not just for women.
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Anyone who has been disenfranchised,
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anyone whose story has not been told,
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the same principles apply,
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and I really hope we can do
the revolution together.
the revolution together.
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My four-point plan.
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Number one: watch movies.
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Isn't this a good revolution?
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(Laughter)
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OK, first I want to talk to anyone
who watches movies.
who watches movies.
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Who watches movies in here?
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Great!
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Will you pledge to watch one film
by a female filmmaker per month?
by a female filmmaker per month?
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That's it, just start there. Great!
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If you need help finding them,
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you can go to the website, moviesbyher.com
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It's an easily searchable database
of films by women.
of films by women.
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And as you start watching all movies,
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I just want you to pay attention
to the female characters.
to the female characters.
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How many of them are there?
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What are they wearing?
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Or not?
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Do they get to do cool things,
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or are they just there
to emotionally support the men?
to emotionally support the men?
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I'm telling you, once you see this,
you're not going to be able to unsee it.
you're not going to be able to unsee it.
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And as you start noticing this,
it's going to shift your viewing habits.
it's going to shift your viewing habits.
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And this already sizable market
is going to continue to grow.
is going to continue to grow.
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Step two: make movies.
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So now I'm talking to all
the female filmmakers out there:
the female filmmakers out there:
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we need you to be very brave.
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It will be harder for you to make movies.
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In fact, there will be an entire industry
constantly telling you
constantly telling you
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that your stories don't matter.
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And we need you to make them, anyway.
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That 18 percent in the micro-budget
range -- that is on us to fix.
range -- that is on us to fix.
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Don't wait for permission.
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Don't wait for somebody to pick you,
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because 95 percent says
they are not going to.
they are not going to.
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Crowd fund.
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Write letters to eccentric relatives.
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I know how hard it is,
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but you have to make your movies --
now, today, features, not shorts.
now, today, features, not shorts.
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There is an audience for them,
and they want and need to see them.
and they want and need to see them.
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Three: invest in each other.
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Fellow female filmmakers, I feel like
we need to stop wasting so much energy
we need to stop wasting so much energy
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on a system that does not want us.
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We need to find our audience
and invest in cultivating them.
and invest in cultivating them.
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If we can figure out
how to make our movies
how to make our movies
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and deliver them
to the audiences that want them,
to the audiences that want them,
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that's it.
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That's the whole game.
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And whatever they're doing in the middle
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is going to cease to be
quite so important.
quite so important.
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Audiences, invest in us.
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Help us make the movies
that you want to see.
that you want to see.
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If you can give a female filmmaker
25 dollars in a crowdfunding campaign,
25 dollars in a crowdfunding campaign,
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great, do that.
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If you can invest more seriously
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and help us over that critical
million-dollar hurdle,
million-dollar hurdle,
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do that.
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But invest in seeing
the other half of the story.
the other half of the story.
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Four: disrupt through business.
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So now I'm talking
to all of the businesspeople
to all of the businesspeople
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and entrepreneurs.
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This does not happen
very often in the world,
very often in the world,
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but right here we have a golden situation
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in which you can enact
significant social change
significant social change
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while also making money.
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Hollywood is a system ripe for disruption.
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The old models of financing
and distribution are crumbling --
and distribution are crumbling --
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please come in and disrupt it.
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I'll give you an example.
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Right now, with some incredible women,
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I am launching the "The 51 Fund."
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It's a venture capital fund
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that will finance films written, directed
and produced by women
and produced by women
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in that critical $1-5 million range.
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We will give a significant number
of female filmmakers
of female filmmakers
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the chance to make their movies
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and we will deliver them
to the audiences who want them.
to the audiences who want them.
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Good for equality, good for business.
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But that's only one example, we need more.
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There is room for so many more.
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So I say to you:
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Hollywood is leaving money on the table.
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Come pick it up.
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(Applause)
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Now, all of this may seem like a lot,
but it is actually so doable.
but it is actually so doable.
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Entrenched systems don't change
because you ask the people in charge,
because you ask the people in charge,
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they change because all of the people
who don't have what they want
who don't have what they want
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rise up and make that change happen.
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And don't you want to?
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I want to see what the other
51 percent of the population has to say.
51 percent of the population has to say.
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I want to watch movies
that teach me about people
that teach me about people
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who are different than I am.
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I want to see women's bodies on film
that aren't perfect.
that aren't perfect.
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I want to give our little boys the chance
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to empathize with female characters
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so that they can become more whole men.
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And I definitely want
to give a little girl
to give a little girl
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who may not have a real-life role model
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the chance to watch movies
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and see women doing everything
she dreams of achieving.
she dreams of achieving.
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This is not about
making one industry better.
making one industry better.
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This is about making a better world.
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Will you help?
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The time for waiting is over.
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The time for the revolution is now.
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(Cheers and applause)
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Reviewed by Camille Martínez
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Naomi McDougall Jones - Actress, writer, producer, activistNaomi McDougall Jones is a vocal advocate and activist for bringing gender parity to film, both on and off screen.
Why you should listen
Naomi McDougall Jones is an award-winning actress, writer, producer and women-in film activist based in New York City.
McDougall Jones wrote, produced and starred in the 2014 indie feature film, Imagine I'm Beautiful, which took home 12 awards on the film festival circuit, including four Best Pictures and, for McDougall Jones, three Best Actress Awards and The Don Award for Best Independently Produced Screenplay of 2014. Imagine I’m Beautiful is a "haunting and empathetic" psychological drama that dissects the fine line between self-invention and destruction. The film received a 10-city theatrical and digital release and is now available on iTunes, Amazon, and GooglePlay.
McDougall Jones's second feature film, Bite Me, is currently in post-production, with an expected 2018 premiere. Bite Me is a subversive romantic comedy about the real-life subculture of people who believe that they're vampires and the IRS agent who audits them. In addition to writing the screenplay, McDougall Jones also stars in the film. She is also currently at work on her third feature screenplay, an as-yet-untitled magical realism film that explores themes of identity, legacy and gender through a modern-day seven-month pregnant woman's unexpected interaction with the brilliant, eccentric and deceased inventor John Hays Hammond, Jr.
McDougall Jones is a vocal advocate and activist for bringing gender parity to film, both on and off screen. She has teamed up with the former CFO of the City of Chicago, Lois Scott, to found The 51 Fund, a VC investment fund will finance films written, directed and produced by women. McDougall Jones is also the Founder of The Women in Film Revolution, the first and only centralized mechanism for leaders of US-based organizations working to bring parity to film to communicate, collaborate, and become a unified movement for change.
McDougall Jones is at work on a book, "The Wrong Kind of Woman: Dismantling the Gods of Hollywood," which will be published by Beacon Press in Fall 2019.
She lives in Brooklyn, NY with her husband, Stephen. She grew up in Aspen, Colorado and attended Cornel University before graduating from The American Academy of Dramatic Arts.
(Photo: Alexandra Turshen)
Naomi McDougall Jones | Speaker | TED.com