TEDGlobal 2012
Heather Brooke: My battle to expose government corruption
希瑟·布鲁克：我那曝光政府腐败的战斗
Filmed:
Readability: 4.1
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记者希瑟·布鲁克说，我们的领导人应当是可靠的。她知道：布鲁克揭露了英国国会财政支出，从而引发了2009年一起重要的政治丑闻。她强烈要求我们通过诸如信息寻求自由之类的平台来向领导人发问——并且最终得到答案。
Heather Brooke - Journalist
Heather Brooke campaigns for freedom of information, requesting one secret document at a time. Full bio
Heather Brooke campaigns for freedom of information, requesting one secret document at a time. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
Once upon a time, the world was a big, dysfunctional family.
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很久以前，世界是个很大却不和谐的大家庭
00:21
It was run by the great and powerful parents,
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这个家庭被“伟大的”“强大的”家长们主宰着
00:25
and the people were helpless
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人们却像是淘气的孩子一样
00:27
and hopeless naughty children.
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无望、无助
00:30
If any of the more rowdier children questioned
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如果吵闹的孩子们怀疑了
00:32
the authority of the parents, they were scolded.
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家长的权威，他们就会被责骂
00:36
If they went exploring into the parents' rooms,
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如果孩子们进去探索家长的房间
00:39
or even into the secret filing cabinets, they were punished,
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或是悄悄溜进家长的秘密档案柜，他们就会被狠狠地惩罚
00:42
and told that for their own good
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家长会告诉他们，为了孩子自己，
00:45
they must never go in there again.
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以后再也不要去家长秘密的房间了。
00:49
Then one day, a man came to town
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有一天， 一个人来到了这个小镇
00:51
with boxes and boxes of secret documents
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带着一箱一箱的从家长那里偷来的
00:54
stolen from the parents' rooms.
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秘密文件
00:56
"Look what they've been hiding from you," he said.
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他说“看看家长们在背后藏了什么”
01:00
The children looked and were amazed.
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孩子们吃惊地看到
01:03
There were maps and minutes from meetings
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这些是从会议里得出的绘图和备忘录
01:06
where the parents were slagging each other off.
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而在会议里家长们互相指责对方
01:09
They behaved just like the children.
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他们的行为简直就像小孩一样！
01:12
And they made mistakes, too, just like the children.
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不但这样，他们也会像孩子一样犯错
01:16
The only difference was, their mistakes
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唯一的不同就是
01:18
were in the secret filing cabinets.
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他们的错误被藏在秘密的档案阁里
01:21
Well, there was a girl in the town, and she didn't think
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镇里有个小女孩，她并不觉得
01:24
they should be in the secret filing cabinets,
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家长的秘密应该被藏在秘密的档案阁里
01:27
or if they were, there ought to be a law
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即使藏在那里，也必须有法规
01:29
to allow the children access.
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允许孩子们知道内容
01:31
And so she set about to make it so.
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于是，她开始着手实现这个想法
01:35
Well, I'm the girl in that story, and the secret documents
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对，我就是故事里的小女孩
01:39
that I was interested in were located in this building,
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而我感兴趣的秘密就藏在这栋楼里
01:42
the British Parliament, and the data that I wanted
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那就是英国议会
01:46
to get my hands on were the expense receipts
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而我想拿到手的资料就是
01:49
of members of Parliament.
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下院议员的花费收据
01:53
I thought this was a basic question to ask in a democracy. (Applause)
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我认为这是在民主社会最基本需要知道的东西。（掌声）
01:59
It wasn't like I was asking for the code to a nuclear bunker,
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我又不是在要求知道核武器堆的密码
02:02
or anything like that, but the amount of resistance I got
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或者类似的。但是，我为了知道这冠上“信息自由”的信息，
02:05
from this Freedom of Information request,
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可是费了不少的功夫才冲破重重阻碍
02:07
you would have thought I'd asked something like this.
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其间的困难是你不能预想到的
02:10
So I fought for about five years doing this,
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我大概用了五年的时间才有今天的结果
02:15
and it was one of many hundreds of requests that I made,
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而这只是我所提出需要了解的几百种信息的中的一点
02:18
not -- I didn't -- Hey, look, I didn't set out, honestly,
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不过，我要说，我没有想要
02:21
to revolutionize the British Parliament.
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彻底改革英国议会
02:23
That was not my intention. I was just making these requests
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那根本不是我的意图，我只是在
02:26
as part of research for my first book.
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为了我出第一本书做出的一点努力
02:29
But it ended up in this very long, protracted legal battle
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但是我确意想不到的打了这么久的官司
02:32
and there I was after five years fighting against Parliament
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经过长达五年
02:37
in front of three of Britain's most eminent High Court judges
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与英国高院三位最杰出法官的较量，
02:40
waiting for their ruling about whether or not Parliament had to release this data.
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等待他们决定议会是否应该公开这些信息
02:44
And I've got to tell you, I wasn't that hopeful,
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今天我必须告诉你，原本并不是那么有希望
02:46
because I'd seen the establishment. I thought,
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因为我见证了议会的建立，我觉得
02:49
it always sticks together. I am out of luck.
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议会做事一般是不透露的。我可能没有运气找到什么吧
02:52
Well, guess what? I won. Hooray. (Applause)
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但是，你们猜猜？我胜利了。啊哈！
02:56
Well, that's not exactly the story, because the problem was
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呵呵，但我讲述的并不是很完整的故事。因为问题在于，
03:00
that Parliament delayed and delayed releasing that data,
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议会不断地拖延公布这些信息
03:03
and then they tried to retrospectively change the law
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不仅这样，他们还尝试回溯性地改变这方面的法规
03:06
so that it would no longer apply to them.
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让新法规不再适用于揭露这种信息
03:09
The transparency law they'd passed earlier that applied to everybody else,
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之前他们颁布的新“透明”法规对于其他人都适用
03:12
they tried to keep it so it didn't apply to them.
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他们试着让法规不再适用我的要求
03:15
What they hadn't counted on was digitization,
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但是他们忘记了在数据数字化上下规定
03:18
because that meant that all those paper receipts
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因为，这些纸质收据
03:21
had been scanned in electronically, and it was very easy
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已经被电子扫描过了
03:24
for somebody to just copy that entire database,
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所以要复制整个数据库是非常容易的
03:27
put it on a disk, and then just saunter outside of Parliament,
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只需要将数据装入磁盘，然后就可以悠闲地在议会楼外散步了
03:31
which they did, and then they shopped that disk
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他们就这样做了，还把装有数据的磁盘卖给了
03:34
to the highest bidder, which was the Daily Telegraph,
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出价最高的《每日电讯报》
03:37
and then, you all remember, there was weeks and weeks
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然后，你们记得的，
03:40
of revelations, everything from porn movies
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就有了周周不断地揭露，
03:43
and bath plugs and new kitchens
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从色情电影，浴盆塞，新厨房
03:46
and mortgages that had never been paid off.
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到没有还清的抵押贷款
03:49
The end result was six ministers resigned,
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最后的结果呢？ 十六个部长辞职了
03:54
the first speaker of the house in 300 years was forced to resign,
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三百年内第一次有议会发言人被迫辞职
03:58
a new government was elected on a mandate of transparency,
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基于对透明化的命令，一个新的政府被选举出来
04:02
120 MPs stepped down at that election,
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120个下院议员在那场选举中也无奈下台
04:06
and so far, four MPs and two lords
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至今，四个下院议员和两个勋爵
04:10
have done jail time for fraud.
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因为作假进了监狱
04:13
So, thank you. (Applause)
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谢谢大家（鼓掌）
04:20
Well, I tell you that story because it wasn't unique to Britain.
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我告诉大家这个故事的目的是因为这个现象不只存在于英国
04:24
It was an example of a culture clash that's happening
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这只是在全球文化冲击的一个例子而已
04:27
all over the world between bewigged and bestockinged
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在世界各地，仍有无数的戴着假面具，藏着无数“秘密”
04:31
officials who think that they can rule over us
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的官员，而他们总认为
04:35
without very much prying from the public,
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自己能在公众睁一只眼闭一只眼状况下统治人民
04:37
and then suddenly confronted with a public
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但是突然，他们得面对
04:39
who is no longer content with that arrangement,
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对这种现状不再满意的民众
04:43
and not only not content with it, now, more often,
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民众不仅对官员不满意，
04:46
armed with official data itself.
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更多时候，还对官方的数据产生怀疑
04:50
So we are moving to this democratization of information,
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我们已经进入了信息的民主化
04:55
and I've been in this field for quite a while.
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我已经研究这方面很久了
04:58
Slightly embarrassing admission: Even when I was a kid,
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实话说挺不好意思的，我小时候，
05:01
I used to have these little spy books, and I would, like,
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曾经有小小的“间谍”本子
05:03
see what everybody was doing in my neighborhood and log it down.
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我会悄悄观察邻居们在做什么，然后把它记录下来
05:05
I think that was a pretty good indication
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或许，那时我的行为
05:07
about my future career as an investigative journalist,
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就为我未来职业埋下了伏笔---调查记者
05:11
and what I've seen from being in this access to information field for so long
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接触这些信息这么久，我发现
05:15
is that it used to be quite a niche interest,
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这曾只是个小众的兴趣
05:18
and it's gone mainstream. Everybody, increasingly, around the world,
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而现在已经成为主流了。
05:21
wants to know about what people in power are doing.
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越来越多的人想知道那些掌权的人们在干什么
05:24
They want a say in decisions that are made in their name
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他们想要在以他们的名义，用他们的金钱所作的决定中
05:28
and with their money. It's this democratization of information
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有发言权。我觉得正是信息民主化
05:31
that I think is an information enlightenment,
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促成这这种信息启蒙
05:33
and it has many of the same principles of the first Enlightenment.
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而且它和最初的启蒙运动在原则上有很多相似之处
05:37
It's about searching for the truth,
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都在寻找真理
05:40
not because somebody says it's true, "because I say so."
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不因为有人说这是真理，“因为我这样说”
05:44
No, it's about trying to find the truth based on
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不，这是在寻找看得见的，
05:46
what you can see and what can be tested.
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能被证实的真理
05:49
That, in the first Enlightenment, led to questions about
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在启蒙运动里，这样的探寻引出了一些疑问
05:52
the right of kings, the divine right of kings to rule over people,
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比如国王的权利，国王统治子民的神圣权利
05:55
or that women should be subordinate to men,
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比如女人应该服从男人
05:57
or that the Church was the official word of God.
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再比如教堂就是代表上帝的地方
06:00
Obviously the Church weren't very happy about this,
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显然教会不乐意了
06:03
and they tried to suppress it,
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他们想要抑制这样的探索
06:05
but what they hadn't counted on was technology,
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但他们没预料到科技的能力
06:08
and then they had the printing press, which suddenly
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有了出版社让这些
06:10
enabled these ideas to spread cheaply, far and fast,
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想法廉价并迅速地传播到各地
06:14
and people would come together in coffee houses,
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人们聚集到咖啡屋
06:16
discuss the ideas, plot revolution.
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讨论这些想法，密谋一场信息革命
06:19
In our day, we have digitization. That strips all the physical mass out of information,
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现在我们有了数据电子化。这把信息从成堆成堆的状况下解救出来
06:24
so now it's almost zero cost to copy and share information.
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所以现在拷贝分享信息已近乎零花费
06:27
Our printing press is the Internet. Our coffee houses are social networks.
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我们的“出版社”就是网络。我们的“咖啡屋”就是社交网络。
06:31
We're moving to what I would think of as a fully connected system,
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我认为，我们已经进入完全连接的世界
06:37
and we have global decisions to make in this system,
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我们可以在这个世界做出全球化的决定
06:39
decisions about climate, about finance systems,
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做出关于气候，金融系统，以及资源分配的决定
06:43
about resources. And think about it --
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想想吧
06:46
if we want to make an important decision about buying a house,
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如果我们做买房子这样重要的决定
06:49
we don't just go off. I mean, I don't know about you,
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我们不是立即就做决定。虽然我不知道你们会不会,
06:51
but I want to see a lot of houses before I put that much money into it.
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但在投入大量资金之前我还想多看些房子
06:55
And if we're thinking about a finance system,
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如果我们在考虑金融方面的问题
06:57
we need a lot of information to take in. It's just not possible
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我们也需要很多信息。
07:01
for one person to take in the amount, the volume
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如果只让一个人了解很多信息，
07:05
of information, and analyze it to make good decisions.
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再分析信息作出决定，是不现实的
07:08
So that's why we're seeing increasingly this demand
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因此，对获取信息的要求
07:11
for access to information.
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才越来越多
07:14
That's why we're starting to see more disclosure laws
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所以我们才有了那么多的
07:16
come out, so for example, on the environment,
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公开法出现
07:18
there's the Aarhus Convention,
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比如，在环境方面，有《阿尔胡斯公约》
07:20
which is a European directive that gives people
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这个欧洲的指令给力人们巨大的信息权
07:22
a very strong right to know, so if your water company
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如果你的自来水公司
07:25
is dumping water into your river, sewage water
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倒污水到河里
07:28
into your river, you have a right to know about it.
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你有权利知道
07:31
In the finance industry, you now have more of a right
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在金融业，你有更多权利知道
07:35
to know about what's going on, so we have
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业界进展，
07:37
different anti-bribery laws, money regulations,
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有反贿赂法规，金钱规章，
07:40
increased corporate disclosure, so you can now track assets across borders.
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逐渐增加的公司透明法规，所以现在你可以跨国查看财产了
07:45
And it's getting harder to hide assets, tax avoidance,
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而私藏财产，逃税，区别薪酬是越来越难了。
07:50
pay inequality. So that's great. We're starting to find out
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这当然很好。
07:53
more and more about these systems.
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我们开始发现这个系统里面的更多信息
07:56
And they're all moving to this central system,
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他们都逐渐走向
07:58
this fully connected system,
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完全连接的系统
08:01
all of them except one. Can you guess which one?
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不过，有一点还没有。你们猜猜是什么？
08:04
It's the system which underpins all these other systems.
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那就是，这个支持其他系统的系统
08:07
It's the system by which we organize and exercise power,
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这个我们管理运用权力的系统
08:11
and there I'm talking about politics, because in politics,
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我说的就是政治，因为在政治中
08:14
we're back to this system, this top-down hierarchy.
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我们追踪回到了这个至上而下的等级制度
08:18
And how is it possible that the volume of information
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但是要从这个最高等级的系统中完全透明化信息，
08:21
can be processed that needs to in this system?
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可能么？
08:24
Well, it just can't. That's it.
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不，那是行不通的。
08:26
And I think this is largely what's behind the crisis
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我认为这很大一部分就是藏在不同政府的
08:29
of legitimacy in our different governments right now.
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息合法化危机背后的东西
08:33
So I've told you a bit about what I did
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我已经告诉了你们一些
08:36
to try and drag Parliament, kicking and screaming,
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我针对议会的做的执意争得信息权利的行动。
08:38
into the 21st century, and I'm just going to give you
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那么接下来我会
08:41
a couple of examples of what a few other people I know
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再讲述一下我认识的一些人
08:43
are doing.
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所做的事。
08:45
So this is a guy called Seb Bacon. He's a computer
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Seb Bacon这个电脑
08:48
programmer, and he built a site called Alaveteli,
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工程师做了一个叫
08:52
and what it is, it's a Freedom of Information platform.
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Alaveteli, 它是一个自由的信息平台
08:57
It's open-source, with documentation, and it allows you
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它有开放式的文件记录
09:00
to make a Freedom of Information request,
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并且你可以对公共群体提出信息自由的要求
09:03
to ask your public body a question, so
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问你想问的问题
09:06
it takes all the hassle out of it, and I can tell you
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这个网站就收集大家的“牢骚”
09:09
that there is a lot of hassle making these requests,
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通过它人们知道有很多都在提出自己的牢骚
09:11
so it takes all of that hassle out, and you just type in your question,
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你只需要输入你的问题
09:14
for example, how many police officers have a criminal record?
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比如说，“多少警察有犯罪记录？”
09:19
It zooms it off to the appropriate person, it tells you
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然后就会得到对目标的详细关注
09:23
when the time limit is coming to an end, it keeps track of all
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你还可以知道时限长度，
09:26
the correspondence, it posts it up there,
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追踪通信。一旦你把问题提出来，
09:28
and it becomes an archive of public knowledge.
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它就进入了公众视野
09:32
So that's open-source and it can be used in any country
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只要你的国家有关于信息自由的法律，
09:35
where there is some kind of Freedom of Information law.
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你就可以使用这个公开资源的网站
09:38
So there's a list there of the different countries that have it,
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现在在许多国家，这个网站已经走上正轨
09:41
and then there's a few more coming on board.
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接下来还会在更多国家开始。
09:43
So if any of you out there like the sound of that
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如果在座的任何人对此有兴趣，
09:46
and have a law like that in your country,
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并且你的国家有相关法律
09:48
I know that Seb would love to hear from you
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Seb网站期待与您
09:50
about collaborating and getting that into your country.
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和您的国家合作。
09:54
This is Birgitta Jónsdóttir. She's an Icelandic MP.
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照片上的是Birgitta Jonsdottir,她是冰岛下院议员
09:59
And quite an unusual MP. In Iceland, she was
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一个不寻常的议员。
10:03
one of the protesters who was outside of Parliament
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当冰岛的国家经济临近崩溃时，有许多人在议会外面抗议
10:06
when the country's economy collapsed,
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她便是其中一员
10:10
and then she was elected on a reform mandate,
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在改革的要求下，她成功当选
10:14
and she's now spearheading this project.
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她现在正准备操作这个项目
10:16
It's the Icelandic Modern Media Initiative,
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这就是冰岛现代媒体的行动，
10:19
and they've just got funding to make it an international
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他们刚刚得到了将之做成
10:21
modern media project, and this is taking all of the best laws
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一项国际化现代媒体项目的资金，
10:24
around the world about freedom of expression,
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项目将汇聚全球关于言论自由的法律，
10:27
protection of whistleblowers, protection from libel,
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关于保护告发者的法律，关于诽谤罪方面保护的法律
10:30
source protection, and trying to make Iceland a publishing haven.
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关于资源保护的法律。这样，冰岛将成为出版业的天堂
10:35
It's a place where your data can be free, so when we think
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在这里数据会是自由的
10:37
about, increasingly, how governments want to access user data,
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当我们越来越多地思考政府怎样接触使用数据时，
10:40
what they're trying to do in Iceland is make this safe haven
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他们就在冰岛建立了这个安全的天堂
10:43
where it can happen.
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让信息自由。
10:46
In my own field of investigative journalism, we're also
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在我自己的领域里，也就是调查性报道，
10:49
having to start thinking globally, so this is a site called
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我们也在逐渐地思考更全球化的东西
10:52
Investigative Dashboard. And if you're trying to track
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这里有个网站叫做“调查仪表盘”。如果你想要
10:55
a dictator's assets, for example, Hosni Mubarak,
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追踪一个独裁者的资产。比如说，侯赛尼•穆巴拉克（埃及总统）
10:58
you know, he's just funneling out cash from his country
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当他觉得自己有危险了，
11:02
when he knows he's in trouble, and what you want to do
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他就从自己的国家输送现金，
11:04
to investigate that is, you need to have access to
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而你就想知道这些现金的去向。
11:06
all of the world's, as many as you can,
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你会想要知道越来越多的世界上的“秘密”
11:09
companies' house registrations databases.
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像公司房屋登记的数据。
11:12
So this is a website that tries to agglomerate all of those
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这个网站试着把所有数据网罗
11:16
databases into one place so you can start searching for,
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到一个地方，只要你搜索，就能找到。
11:19
you know, his relatives, his friends, the head of his security services.
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找到他的家属，他的朋友，他的安全服务主管。
11:23
You can try and find out how he's moving out assets
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你可以清楚看到他正在
11:26
from that country.
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从那个国家转移资金。
11:28
But again, when it comes to the decisions which are
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但是，当我们谈论到最影响我们的决定，
11:32
impacting us the most, perhaps, the most important
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可能关于类似战争这种
11:35
decisions that are being made about war and so forth,
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最重要的决定时，
11:38
again we can't just make a Freedom of Information request.
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我们又不能只是提出信息自由的要求，
11:41
It's really difficult. So we're still having to rely on
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这是很困难的。所以我们仍然需要
11:44
illegitimate ways of getting information, through leaks.
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依靠非法的方式来获得信息，从漏洞中获得。
11:48
So when the Guardian did this investigation about
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当英国卫报做这个关于阿富汗战争的报道时
11:51
the Afghan War, you know, they can't walk into
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他们不能就直接走进
11:55
the Department of Defense and ask for all the information.
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国防部，索要全部信息。
11:58
You know, they're just not going to get it.
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这样做的话，是得不到的。
12:00
So this came from leaks of tens of thousands of dispatches
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这些信息都来自美国大兵写的
12:04
that were written by American soldiers
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关于阿富汗战争成千上万的急件，
12:06
about the Afghan War, and leaked,
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从这些漏洞里知道真相。
12:09
and then they're able to do this investigation.
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这样卫报才成功做了调查。
12:12
Another rather large investigation is around world diplomacy.
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另外一个大型的调查是关于全球外交的。
12:18
Again, this is all based around leaks,
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这个调查也来源于
12:20
251,000 U.S. diplomatic cables, and I was involved
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25100个美国的外交电缆里透露的信息。
12:25
in this investigation because I got this leak
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当时我也参与了调查，因为我
12:29
through a leak from a disgruntled WikiLeaker
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从一个不满的维基解密人里得到了密报，
12:33
and ended up going to work at the Guardian.
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最后到卫报里工作了。
12:36
So I can tell you firsthand what it was like to have access
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我能告诉你关于这个漏洞的第一手消息。
12:38
to this leak. It was amazing. I mean, it was amazing.
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那真的是惊人的！真是惊人啊！
12:40
It reminded me of that scene in "The Wizard of Oz."
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这让我想起了《绿野仙踪》里的场景，
12:44
Do you know the one I mean? Where the little dog Toto
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当小狗托托
12:46
runs across to where the wizard [is], and he pulls back,
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跑过巫师旁边，然后掉头回来，
12:49
the dog's pulling back the curtain, and --
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狗狗拉开了幕布
12:50
"Don't look behind the screen. Don't look at the man behind the screen."
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“不要看屏幕后面！不要看屏幕后面的人！”
12:54
It was just like that, because what you started to see
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因为当你开始看到的是
12:57
is that all of these grand statesmen, these very pompous
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那些大政治家，那些
12:59
politicians, they were just like us.
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浮夸的政治家。他们就和我们一样。
13:03
They all bitched about each other. I mean, quite gossipy,
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他们会互相说坏话。对，挺多嘴的。
13:05
those cables. Okay, but I thought it was a very important
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但我觉得这些都需要我们知道。
13:08
point for all of us to grasp, these are human beings
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他们和我们普通人没什么区别。
13:10
just like us. They don't have special powers.
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他们并不是神一样的存在，
13:12
They're not magic. They are not our parents.
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没有什么魔法。他们不是我们父母，
13:16
Beyond that, what I found most fascinating
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除了这些， 我发现最惊奇的是
13:21
was the level of endemic corruption that I saw
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不同国家的地区性腐败，
13:24
across all different countries, and particularly centered
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特别是围绕权力中心
13:27
around the heart of power, around public officials
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比如官员们
13:30
who were embezzling the public's money
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为了自己的利益，挪用公款。
13:32
for their own personal enrichment, and allowed to do that
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正是由于官方机密
13:35
because of official secrecy.
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才造成了这种情况。
13:39
So I've mentioned WikiLeaks, because surely what could be
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我刚提到了维基解密，
13:42
more open than publishing all the material?
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因为，还有比它更加公开的么？
13:45
Because that is what Julian Assange did.
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因为朱利安阿桑奇就这么做了。
13:48
He wasn't content with the way the newspapers published it
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他并不满意于
13:51
to be safe and legal. He threw it all out there.
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新闻安全、合法地发布信息的方式。他把所有的东西都倒出来了。
13:55
That did end up with vulnerable people in Afghanistan
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那的确是让一些易受攻击的阿富汗人被揭发出来
13:58
being exposed. It also meant that the Belarussian dictator
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那也表示白俄罗斯独裁者
14:02
was given a handy list of all the pro-democracy campaigners
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也面对了一批与美国政府进行过交谈的支持民主
14:05
in that country who had spoken to the U.S. government.
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进行过交谈的民主人士。
14:09
Is that radical openness? I say it's not, because for me,
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这是激进派的开放么？我觉得不是，
14:13
what it means, it doesn't mean abdicating power,
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这不是放弃权利
14:17
responsibility, accountability, it's actually being a partner
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责任，这只是在和权利同一地位的另一种力量。
14:21
with power. It's about sharing responsibility,
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这是分享责任，分享义务。
14:24
sharing accountability. Also, the fact that
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当他因为我从维基解密得到了很多泄密
14:27
he threatened to sue me because I got a leak of his leaks,
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而威胁要告我，我觉得
14:29
I thought that showed a remarkable sort of inconsistency
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那中间产生了巨大的意识主义上
14:31
in ideology, to be honest, as well. (Laughs)
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的矛盾。（笑声）
14:37
The other thing is that power is incredibly seductive,
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另外，权利真的很诱惑人。
14:41
and you must have two real qualities, I think,
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在你坐上谈判桌，当你
14:43
when you come to the table, when you're dealing
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拥有权利时，
14:46
with power, talking about power,
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你需要有
14:47
because of its seductive capacity.
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两种特质，
14:50
You've got to have skepticism and humility.
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一，怀疑的态度，二，谦卑的心态。
14:53
Skepticism, because you must always be challenging.
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怀疑是因为你一直会被挑战。
14:55
I want to see why do you -- you just say so? That's not good enough.
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如果你只是说了要这样，我觉得还不够。
14:58
I want to see the evidence behind why that's so.
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我想知道为什么这样，这样的依据是什么？
15:01
And humility because we are all human. We all make mistakes.
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谦卑是因为我们都是人都会犯错。
15:06
And if you don't have skepticism and humility,
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如果你不懂得怀疑和谦卑。
15:08
then it's a really short journey to go from reformer
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那你从改革者变为
15:12
to autocrat, and I think you only have to read "Animal Farm"
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独裁者就是一眨眼的事。
15:16
to get that message about how power corrupts people.
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你只需要看看《动物庄园 》就会知道权利是怎样宠坏人们的。
15:22
So what is the solution? It is, I believe, to embody
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那么怎样解决呢？
15:28
within the rule of law rights to information.
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我相信那就是有接近信息的法律权力。
15:31
At the moment our rights are incredibly weak.
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现在我们的权力还十分微弱。
15:34
In a lot of countries, we have Official Secrets Acts,
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在很多国家，我们还有官方保密法。
15:37
including in Britain here. We have an Official Secrets Act
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包括在英国，没有利益测试的
15:39
with no public interest test. So that means it's a crime,
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官方保密法还存在。这说明，
15:42
people are punished, quite severely in a lot of cases,
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如果人们公布或放出官方信息，
15:46
for publishing or giving away official information.
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会被严厉处罚，这被看成是犯罪。
15:50
Now wouldn't it be amazing, and really, this is what I want
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那当是不是我们想看到的。
15:54
all of you to think about, if we had an Official Disclosure Act
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大家想想，如果我们有官方披露信息的法案
15:57
where officials were punished if they were found
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如果官员们被发现禁止或藏匿
16:01
to have suppressed or hidden information
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与公众利益有关的信息
16:04
that was in the public interest?
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他们就会被惩罚
16:06
So that -- yes. Yes! My power pose. (Applause) (Laughs)
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那多好！ 对对，这是我的”权力姿势”
（鼓掌）
（鼓掌）
16:13
I would like us to work towards that.
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我想要大家都向这个方向做出努力。
16:15
So it's not all bad news. I mean, there definitely is
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现在并不都是坏消息。
16:19
progress on the line, but I think what we find is that
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报道中必然有一些进步。
16:22
the closer that we get right into the heart of power,
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当我们更进一步接近权利中心时，
16:25
the more opaque, closed it becomes.
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一些变得更加不透明
16:30
So it was only just the other week that I heard London's
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我上周才发现伦敦的
16:33
Metropolitan Police Commissioner talking about why
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都会警察委员说
16:36
the police need access to all of our communications,
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为什么警察需要得到所有关于
16:41
spying on us without any judicial oversight,
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我们通信的信息，在没有司法官制下
16:44
and he said it was a matter of life and death.
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侦查我们，他说这关系到生死
16:46
He actually said that, it was a matter of life and death.
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他确实这样说的，“这关系到了生死”
16:49
There was no evidence. He presented no evidence of that.
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但这没有依据的。他并没有告诉我证据
16:53
It was just, "Because I say so.
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他只是说“因为我这样说了
16:56
You have to trust me. Take it on faith."
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你必须相信我，用你的信念来接受它。”
16:59
Well, I'm sorry, people, but we are back
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1999
抱歉，但是当我们回到
17:01
to the pre-Enlightenment Church,
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3705
启蒙运动前的教堂
17:05
and we need to fight against that.
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我们都需要制止这样的动作
17:09
So he was talking about the law in Britain which is
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而他在谈论一个令人愤怒的
17:12
the Communications Data Bill, an absolutely outrageous piece of legislation.
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英国通信数据法案啊！
17:16
In America, you have the Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act.
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在美国，有网络情报分享和保护法案。
17:20
You've got drones now being considered for domestic surveillance.
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有监控国家的机器
17:24
You have the National Security Agency building
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有国家安全机构所
17:26
the world's giantest spy center. It's just this colossal --
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全球最大的间谍中心。就是有这么巨大。
17:30
it's five times bigger than the U.S. Capitol,
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它是美国国会大厦的六倍
17:32
in which they're going to intercept and analyze
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在里面，他们拦截并检查他人的
17:34
communications, traffic and personal data
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通信、流量，和个人数据
17:37
to try and figure out who's the troublemaker in society.
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然后找出哪些人是不“和谐”的。
17:41
Well, to go back to our original story, the parents
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那么，现在回到我们最初说的故事。
17:45
have panicked. They've locked all the doors.
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“父母”们开始慌张了，他们锁上门。
17:49
They've kidded out the house with CCTV cameras.
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他们在房子外面装上闭路相机
17:52
They're watching all of us. They've dug a basement,
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他们监视着我们。他们挖了个地下室，
17:55
and they've built a spy center to try and run algorithms
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他们修建了间谍中心，研究盘算着
17:58
and figure out which ones of us are troublesome,
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想找出我们之中不“乖”的人，
18:00
and if any of us complain about that, we're arrested for terrorism.
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如果我们中任何人抱怨了，我们会被逮捕，扣上“恐怖分子”的罪名。
18:05
Well, is that a fairy tale or a living nightmare?
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那是童话，还是噩梦？
18:08
Some fairy tales have happy endings. Some don't.
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一些童话有美好结局。一些则没有。
18:12
I think we've all read the Grimms' fairy tales, which are,
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大家都读过格林童话吧，
18:15
indeed, very grim.
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那确实很恐怖。
18:17
But the world isn't a fairy tale, and it could be more brutal
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但我们的世界不是童话。
18:22
than we want to acknowledge.
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世界可能比我们会承认的更加残酷。
18:25
Equally, it could be better than we've been led to believe,
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同样，世界也可能比我们想象的更好。
18:27
but either way, we have to start seeing it exactly as it is,
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不过无论是那种，我们需要客观的看到世界的真相，
18:31
with all of its problems, because it's only by seeing it
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世界的问题。因为只有通过
18:35
with all of its problems that we'll be able to fix them
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清楚地看见世界的真相和问题，我们才能解决这些问题
18:37
and live in a world in which we can all be
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才能在世界上活的更美好。
18:42
happily ever after. (Laughs) Thank you very much.
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（笑声） 谢谢大家！
18:45
(Applause)
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（鼓掌）
18:48
Thank you. (Applause)
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谢谢。（鼓掌）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Heather Brooke - JournalistHeather Brooke campaigns for freedom of information, requesting one secret document at a time.
Why you should listen
Heather Brooke is a freelance journalist, freedom of information campaigner and professor of journalism at City University London. In 2005, she filed one of the very first requests under the UK's Freedom of Information Act, asking to see the expense reports of Members of Parliament. The request was blocked, modified and refiled, and blocked again...but the years-long quest to view expense documents, and the subsequent investigation, led to 2009's parliamentary expenses scandal. The scandal led to the first forced resignation of the Speaker of the House in 300 years.
Brooke worked as a political and crime reporter in the US before moving to Britain, where she writes for the national papers. She has published three books: Your Right to Know, The Silent State, and 2011's The Revolution Will Be Digitised. It was while researching her latest book that she obtained a leak from Wikileaks of the full batch of 251,287 US diplomatic cables and worked with The Guardian newspaper on an investigation.
Heather Brooke | Speaker | TED.com