TED2008
Samantha Power: A complicated hero in the war on dictatorship
Samantha Power 萨曼塔·鲍尔：讲述一个复杂的英雄
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Samantha Power萨曼塔·鲍尔讲了一个复杂英雄，有关塞尔吉奥·维埃拉·德梅洛（Sergio Vieira de Mello）的故事。这个联合国外交官踩着道德的边界，为了帮助人们度过危机，与世界上最糟糕的独裁者谈判。这是一个激情四溢的，非常有说服力的故事。
Samantha Power - Political scientist and journalist
Samantha Power studies US foreign policy, especially as it relates to war and human rights. Her books take on the world's worst problems: genocide, civil war and brutal dictatorships. Full bio
Samantha Power studies US foreign policy, especially as it relates to war and human rights. Her books take on the world's worst problems: genocide, civil war and brutal dictatorships. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:18
I spent the better part of a decade
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我花了许多年的时间
00:21
looking at American responses to mass atrocity and genocide.
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考察美国人对大规模的暴行和种族灭绝的反应。
00:27
And I'd like to start by sharing with you one moment
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我想跟大家分享一个我经历的重要时刻开始我的演讲
00:33
that to me sums up what there is to know
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那个时刻唤起我关注
00:36
about American and democratic responses to mass atrocity.
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美国人和民主对大规模暴行的反应。
00:39
And that moment came on April 21, 1994.
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那是1994年4月21日。
00:45
So 14 years ago, almost, in the middle of the Rwandan genocide,
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将近14年前的今天，正在进行卢旺达种族灭绝，
00:49
in which 800,000 people would be systematically exterminated
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在那个事件中，有80万人遭到有组织地屠杀，
00:54
by the Rwandan government and some extremist militia.
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刽子手是卢旺达政府和其他的极端分子。
00:59
On April 21, in the New York Times,
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在4月21号的纽约时报上，
01:03
the paper reported that somewhere between 200,000 and 300,000 people
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报道有20万到30万人
01:06
had already been killed in the genocide.
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在种族灭绝运动中遭到屠杀。
01:09
It was in the paper -- not on the front page.
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这条消息是在报纸版面当中-而不是首页上。
01:12
It was a lot like the Holocaust coverage,
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像大屠杀这样的报道很多，
01:14
it was buried in the paper.
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都夹杂在报纸上的其他信息中间。
01:16
Rwanda itself was not seen as newsworthy,
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卢旺达本身不怎么值得报道，
01:18
and amazingly, genocide itself was not seen as newsworthy.
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让人诧异的是，种族灭绝本身也不值得报道。
01:22
But on April 21, a wonderfully honest moment occurred.
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但是在4月21号，出现了一个非常诚实的时刻。
01:26
And that was that an American congresswoman
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那就是有个美国女议员
01:29
named Patricia Schroeder from Colorado
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来自科罗拉多州的帕特里夏施罗德
01:31
met with a group of journalists.
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她接见了一批记者。
01:33
And one of the journalists said to her, what's up?
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其中一个记者问她，怎么回事？
01:37
What's going on in the U.S. government?
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美国政府怎么了？
01:39
Two to 300,000 people have just been exterminated
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有20万到30万人在卢旺达遭到屠杀
01:41
in the last couple of weeks in Rwanda.
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就在最近几天。
01:43
It's two weeks into the genocide at that time,
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那个时候屠杀已经进行了两周，
01:45
but of course, at that time you don't know how long it's going to last.
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当然，那时你不确定那个运动还要持续多久。
01:48
And the journalist said, why is there so little response out of Washington?
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那个记者说，为什么华盛顿没有任何反应？
01:53
Why no hearings, no denunciations,
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为什么没有听证会，没有谴责，
01:56
no people getting arrested in front of the Rwandan embassy
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没有人在卢旺达大使馆前闹事，遭到被捕
01:59
or in front of the White House? What's the deal?
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或者是在白宫前面游行？到底怎么了？
02:03
And she said -- she was so honest -- she said, "It's a great question.
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这个女议员说-她非常诚实-她说，“你问了个好问题。
02:08
All I can tell you is that in my congressional office in Colorado
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我可以告诉你，在我科罗拉多的议会办公室
02:12
and my office in Washington,
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和我在华盛顿的办公室，
02:14
we're getting hundreds and hundreds of calls
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收到了成百上千的电话
02:17
about the endangered ape and gorilla population in Rwanda,
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关于卢旺达即将灭绝的猿和大猩猩，
02:22
but nobody is calling about the people.
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但是没有接到谈论当地人的电话。
02:25
The phones just aren't ringing about the people."
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就是没有关于人的电话。”
02:28
And the reason I give you this moment is there's a deep truth in it.
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我现在可以告诉你一个理由，有一个很深刻的道理。
02:33
And that truth is, or was, in the 20th century,
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这个道理是20世纪，
02:37
that while we were beginning to develop endangered species movements,
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当我们开始开展拯救濒临物种的运动时，
02:42
we didn't have an endangered people's movement.
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我们并没有一个关于濒临灭绝人种的运动。
02:44
We had Holocaust education in the schools.
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在学校我们有关大屠杀内容的教育。
02:48
Most of us were groomed not only on images of nuclear catastrophe,
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我们大多数人不仅见识了核灾难的照片，
02:52
but also on images and knowledge of the Holocaust.
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还学习了关于大屠杀的图片和知识。
02:57
There's a museum, of course, on the Mall in Washington,
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当然，华盛顿广场有个博物馆，
03:00
right next to Lincoln and Jefferson.
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就在林肯和杰斐逊雕塑旁边。
03:02
I mean, we have owned Never Again culturally,
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我的意思是，我们已经有了“再不让类似悲剧发生”的概念，
03:06
appropriately, interestingly.
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文化层面的，非常恰当且非常有趣的。
03:10
And yet the politicization of Never Again,
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但是政治层面的“再不发生”，
03:14
the operationalization of Never Again,
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以及“再不发生”的实际操作，
03:16
had never occurred in the 20th century.
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在20世纪从未实现。
03:19
And that's what that moment with Patricia Schroeder I think shows:
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我想这就是帕特里夏施罗德当时想的：
03:22
that if we are to bring about an end to the world's worst atrocities,
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如果我们想阻止世界上最恐怖的暴行，
03:29
we have to make it such.
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我们必须行动起来。
03:31
There has to be a role --
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必须有个人-
03:33
there has to be the creation of political noise and political costs
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必须发出政治声音，承担政治成本
03:36
in response to massive crimes against humanity, and so forth.
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作为对反人性的大规模犯罪的反应等等。
03:39
So that was the 20th century.
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那是20世纪的情况。
03:41
Now here -- and this will be a relief to you at this point in the afternoon --
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现在-对今天下午在座的你们来说，有一种解脱-
03:45
there is good news, amazing news, in the 21st century,
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有一个好消息，非常让人惊奇的消息，在21世纪，
03:49
and that is that, almost out of nowhere, there has come into being
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这就是，不知从哪里开始的，
03:56
an anti-genocide movement, an anti-genocide constituency,
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开展了反种族屠杀的运动，有了反种族屠杀的支持者，
03:59
and one that looks destined, in fact, to be permanent.
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这看起来是注定要产生的，事实上，也会永久存在下去。
04:03
It grew up in response to the atrocities in Darfur.
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它是在反抗达尔富尔暴行的过程中产生的。
04:06
It is comprised of students. There are something like 300 anti-genocide chapters
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它主要由学生组成。大概有300个左右的反种族灭绝分会，
04:12
on college campuses around the country.
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在全国各地的大学校园里。
04:15
It's bigger than the anti-apartheid movement.
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它比反种族隔离运动规模要大。
04:17
There are something like 500 high school chapters
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有大约500个高中分会
04:21
devoted to stopping the genocide in Darfur.
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致力于阻止达尔富尔的种族灭绝。
04:24
Evangelicals have joined it. Jewish groups have joined it.
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新教徒加入了进来，犹太教徒也加入了。
04:28
"Hotel Rwanda" watchers have joined it. It is a cacophonous movement.
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卢旺达酒店观察家也加入了进来。这是一个声势浩大的运动。
04:32
To call it a movement, as with all movements, perhaps, is a little misleading.
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把这称作“运动”，和其他若干次运动一起，或许有些误导。
04:35
It's diverse. It's got a lot of different approaches.
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这次运动非常多样化，有很多不同的方法。
04:38
It's got all the ups and the downs of movements.
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经历了所有运动都有的高潮和低谷。
04:40
But it has been amazingly successful in one regard,
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但是在一个方面，这次运动非常成功，
04:44
in that it has become,
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它变成了一个
04:46
it has congealed into this endangered people's movement
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针对所有面临种族灭绝危险的人群的运动
04:49
that was missing in the 20th century.
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这种人群运动是20世纪没有的。
04:51
It sees itself, such as it is, the it,
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这次运动就是这样，不同，
04:54
as something that will create the impression that there will be political cost,
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它制造出这样一种印象，就是需要政治成本，或者说，
04:59
there will be a political price to be paid,
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必须付出政治代价，
05:02
for allowing genocide, for not having an heroic imagination,
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允许种族屠杀，不让人们有做英雄的幻想，
05:06
for not being an upstander but for being, in fact, a bystander.
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不做一个支持者，而是，事实上，一个旁观者。
05:10
Now because it's student-driven,
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现在因为是学生驱动的，
05:14
there's some amazing things that the movement has done.
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这个运动已经做了一些成绩。
05:16
They have launched a divestment campaign
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他们已经发动了撤资运动
05:18
that has now convinced, I think, 55 universities in 22 states
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在22个州的55所学校里面已经得到证实了
05:22
to divest their holdings of stocks
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让那些有股票的人赎回自己的股票
05:24
with regard to companies doing business in Sudan.
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如果出售股票的公司在苏丹做生意的话。
05:28
They have a 1-800-GENOCIDE number --
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他们有一个1-8--GENOCIDE(种族灭绝)热线-
05:30
this is going to sound very kitsch,
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这听起来有些愚蠢，
05:32
but for those of you who may not be, I mean, may be apolitical,
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但是对那些不，我的意思是，不怎么关心政治，
05:36
but interested in doing something about genocide,
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但是对种族灭绝感兴趣的人，
05:38
you dial 1-800-GENOCIDE and you type in your zip code,
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你可以拨打1-800-GENOCIDE，输入你的邮编，
05:41
and you don't even have to know who your congressperson is.
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你甚至不需要知道你们州的国会议员是谁。
05:43
It will refer you directly to your congressperson, to your U.S. senator,
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它也会直接接通到你的国会议员，或者是美国参议员，
05:47
to your governor where divestment legislation is pending.
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或者接到州长那里，撤资立法虽然还未签订。
05:50
They've lowered the transaction costs of stopping genocide.
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他们这样做降低了组织种族灭绝的交易成本。
05:54
I think the most innovative thing they've introduced recently
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我认为他们最近做的最有新意的事情
05:57
are genocide grades.
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是种族灭绝评分。
06:00
And it takes students to introduce genocide grades.
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需要学生来介绍这种种族灭绝评分。
06:03
So what you now have when a Congress is in session
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所以你现在会看到，当国会开会时，
06:06
is members of Congress calling up these 19-year-olds or 24-year-olds
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有国会议员会打给19岁或者24岁的学生，然后说，
06:11
and saying, I'm just told I have a D minus on genocide;
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我刚得知我的种族灭绝评分是D-；
06:14
what do I do to get a C? I just want to get a C. Help me.
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我如何做才能得到C，我想得到C，请帮帮我。
06:18
And the students and the others
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这时，该学生和其他人
06:20
who are part of this incredibly energized base
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那些同样是这个非常有活力的集体的一分子
06:22
are there to answer that, and there's always something to do.
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会在那里，回答说，总有些办法的。
06:26
Now, what this movement has done is it has extracted from the Bush administration
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现在这个运动已经完成的不同于布什政府
06:31
from the United States,
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从美国，
06:33
at a time of massive over-stretch -- military, financial, diplomatic --
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从军事、财政、外交都高度控制
06:38
a whole series of commitments to Darfur
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对达尔富尔有着一系列的承诺，
06:40
that no other country in the world is making.
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世界上其他国家尚未做到的承诺。
06:43
For instance, the referral of the crimes in Darfur
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例如，把达尔富尔的罪犯转给
06:45
to the International Criminal Court,
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国际法庭，
06:47
which the Bush administration doesn't like.
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这是美国政府不喜欢的方式。
06:49
The expenditure of 3 billion dollars in refugee camps to try to keep,
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花30亿美元在那些难民营上，
06:53
basically, the people who've been displaced from their homes
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基本养活了那些被
06:55
by the Sudanese government, by the so-called Janjaweed, the militia,
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苏丹政府，被那些所谓的Janjaweed，被那些民兵驱逐出家园的人，
06:58
to keep those people alive
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维持那些难民的生命
07:00
until something more durable can be achieved.
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直到更加可持续的方案达成。
07:04
And recently, or now not that recently,
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最近，或者不是最新的消息，
07:06
about six months ago, the authorization of a peacekeeping force
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大概六个月前，维和部队得到授权，
07:09
of 26,000 that will go.
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两万六千士兵将被派驻那里。
07:11
And that's all the Bush administration's leadership,
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这都是在布什政府的领导下，
07:13
and it's all because of this bottom-up pressure
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都是因为有自下而上的压力
07:15
and the fact that the phones haven't stopped ringing
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热线电话一直未断
07:18
from the beginning of this crisis.
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从危机刚开始出现就这样。
07:20
The bad news, however, to this question of will evil prevail,
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坏消息是，
07:23
is that evil lives on.
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邪恶还存在。
07:25
The people in those camps are surrounded on all sides
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难民营中的人被
07:29
by so-called Janjaweed, these men on horseback
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所谓的Janjaweed军团围着，这些军人骑着马
07:31
with spears and Kalashnikovs.
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带着矛还有卡拉什尼科夫冲锋枪。
07:33
Women who go to get firewood in order to heat the humanitarian aid
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女人们去拾柴来加热人道主义援助食品
07:37
in order to feed their families -- humanitarian aid,
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来养活她们的家人-人道主义援助食品-
07:40
the dirty secret of it is it has to be heated, really, to be edible --
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卑鄙的地方就在于需要加热才能吃，真的是这样-
07:43
are themselves subjected to rape,
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她们也遭到强奸，
07:45
which is a tool of the genocide that is being used.
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这是种族屠杀的工具之一。
07:47
And the peacekeepers I've mentioned, the force has been authorized,
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我刚提到的维和部队，这些军队已经得到了联合国的授权，
07:50
but almost no country on Earth has stepped forward since the authorization
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但是从得到授权来，几乎没有国家迈出这一步，
07:55
to actually put its troops or its police in harm's way.
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把他们的部队实际派过去，或者是警察。
07:58
So we have achieved an awful lot relative to the 20th century,
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所以我们实际做到的相比20世纪还是很多，
08:03
and yet far too little relative to the gravity of the crime that is unfolding
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但是打击这些已经出现的严重犯罪的力度很小，
08:07
as we sit here, as we speak.
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我们坐在这里，讨论这些。
08:09
Why the limits to the movement?
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这种运动的局限性是什么?
08:12
Why is what has been achieved, or what the movement has done,
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为什么我们当前取得的，或者说运动带来的成效，
08:16
been necessary but not sufficient to the crime?
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虽然很有必要，但是对制止犯罪却远远不够呢？
08:18
I think there are a couple -- there are many reasons --
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我认为有一些-应该说有很多原因-
08:20
but a couple just to focus on briefly.
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但是我们今天只简要地集中讨论其中的一些。
08:22
The first is that the movement, such as it is,
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第一个是这些运动，
08:26
stops at America's borders.
It is not a global movement.
It is not a global movement.
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比如发生在美国边境内的运动。它并不是全球性的运动。
08:30
It does not have too many compatriots abroad who themselves
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这些运动并没有得到很多国外同胞
08:34
are asking their governments to do more to stop genocide.
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那些认为他们的政府也该为阻止种族屠杀采取更多的措施。
08:38
And the Holocaust culture that we have in this country
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我认为美国大屠杀的文化
08:40
makes Americans, sort of, more prone to, I think,
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使得美国人，部分使得我们更加
08:43
want to bring Never Again to life.
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倾向于支持让这种事情“再不发生”。
08:46
The guilt that the Clinton administration expressed,
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克林顿政府表达出来的愧疚，
08:50
that Bill Clinton expressed over Rwanda,
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比尔·克林顿本人对卢旺达屠杀表示出来的愧疚
08:52
created a space in our society for a consensus
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使得我们整个社会达成了这样一个共识，
08:54
that Rwanda was bad and wrong
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那就是卢旺达政府很坏并且做了错事，
08:56
and we wish we had done more, and that is something
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我们希望能够做的更多，这种感情使得
08:58
that the movement has taken advantage of.
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运动更容易展开。
09:00
European governments, for the most part,
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而欧洲政府，很大程度上，
09:01
haven't acknowledged responsibility, and there's nothing to kind of
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从未承认过他们的责任，没有什么
09:04
to push back and up against.
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要承担或推卸的责任。
09:08
So this movement, if it's to be durable and global,
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所以要想使得这项运动持续下去，推广到全球，
09:12
will have to cross borders, and you will have to see
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越过国界，我们就必须
09:15
other citizens in democracies, not simply resting on the assumption
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去观察其他民主政体下的人民，而不仅仅是
09:19
that their government would do something in the face of genocide,
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设想他们的政府在种族屠杀面前会做出点什么，
09:22
but actually making it such.
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我们要实际去推动这项运动。
09:24
Governments will never gravitate towards crimes of this magnitude
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政府从不会自动关注这样大规模的犯罪
09:27
naturally or eagerly.
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既不会自然地关注，也没有太多热情。
09:29
As we saw, they haven't even gravitated towards protecting our ports
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正如我们知道的，他们也不会自动去保护我们的港口
09:31
or reigning in loose nukes.
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或者施加核制裁。
09:33
Why would we expect in a bureaucracy that it would orient itself
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为什么我们会期待官僚机构能够调整方向，
09:37
towards distant suffering?
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关注遥远的人民所受的痛苦？
09:39
So one reason is it hasn't gone global.
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这是这项运动没有走向全球的一个原因。
09:41
The second is, of course, that at this time in particular in America's history,
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第二个原因，当前，在这个美国历史上特殊的时刻
09:45
we have a credibility problem,
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我们出现了信誉危机，
09:47
a legitimacy problem in international institutions.
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在国际机构中的合法性的问题。
09:49
It is structurally really, really hard to do,
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这在结构上很难，真的很难解决，
09:52
as the Bush administration rightly does,
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正如布什政府正在做的，
09:54
which is to denounce genocide on a Monday
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周一谴责种族屠杀，
09:58
and then describe water boarding on a Tuesday as a no-brainer
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周二讨论水上登陆问题，就像一个没有脑子的人，
10:01
and then turn up on Wednesday and look for troop commitments.
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然后，周三又出面给部队各种承诺。
10:05
Now, other countries have their own reasons for not wanting to get involved.
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现在，其他国家有他们不参与此事的理由了。
10:08
Let me be clear.
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让我说清楚一些。
10:10
They're in some ways using the Bush administration as an alibi.
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他们在某种程度上把美国政府当做一个借口。
10:13
But it is essential for us to be a leader in this sphere,
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当然，在这件事情上，我们必须成为一个领导者，这非常重要，
10:17
of course to restore our standing and our leadership in the world.
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对于坚持我们的立场，以及我们对世界的领导权非常重要。
10:21
The recovery's going to take some time.
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复原需要时间。
10:23
We have to ask ourselves, what now? What do we do going forward
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我们必须反问自己，现在该怎么办？我们如何作为一个国家、
10:26
as a country and as citizens in relationship to the world's worst places,
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一个公民维持与世界上最糟糕的地方的关系，
10:30
the world's worst suffering, killers, and the kinds of killers
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这个地方是世界上受苦最多的地方，杀手和准杀手们
10:35
that could come home to roost sometime in the future?
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在未来可能会自食恶果。
10:40
The place that I turned to answer that question was to a man
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我要回答的问题来自一个男士
10:46
that many of you may not have ever heard of,
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这个人你们或许从未听说过，
10:49
and that is a Brazilian named Sergio Vieira de Mello who,
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这个人是巴西人，叫塞尔吉奥·维埃拉·德梅洛，
10:54
as Chris said, was blown up in Iraq in 2003.
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他就像克里斯说的，在2003年伊拉克战争中被炸死。
11:00
He was the victim of the first-ever suicide bomb in Iraq.
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他是最早的伊拉克自杀性爆炸袭击中的受害者。
11:03
It's hard to remember, but there was actually a time in the summer of 2003,
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这很难记起，是2003年夏天中的某个时间，
11:06
even after the U.S. invasion, where,
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尽管在美国介入后，
11:09
apart from looting, civilians were relatively safe in Iraq.
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伊拉克除了抢劫外，民众相对安全了许多。
11:13
Now, who was Sergio? Sergio Vieira de Mello was his name.
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那谁是塞尔吉奥呢？他的全名是塞尔吉奥·维埃拉·德梅洛。
11:16
In addition to being Brazilian, he was described to me
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除了是个巴西人外，在1994年我们见面之前，
11:19
before I met him in 1994 as someone who was a cross between
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他被描述为介于詹姆斯邦德
11:22
James Bond on the one hand and Bobby Kennedy on the other.
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和博比肯尼迪之间的一个人。
11:26
And in the U.N., you don't get that many people
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在联合国，我们认为并没有很多人
11:29
who actually manage to merge those qualities.
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能够将这两人的品质同时具备。
11:32
He was James Bond-like in that he was ingenious.
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他像詹姆斯邦德是说他的机警灵活。
11:36
He was drawn to the flames, he chased the flames,
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他被吸引到危险的事业中，他追逐这样的事业，
11:39
he was like a moth to the flames. Something of an adrenalin junkie.
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就像飞蛾扑火；就像上瘾后被激发的肾上腺素。
11:42
He was successful with women.
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他对付女人也很有一套。
11:47
He was Bobby Kennedy-like because in some ways one could never tell
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他像博比肯尼迪是说没有任何人能够说出
11:51
if he was a realist masquerading as an idealist
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他是伪装成现实主义者的理想主义者
11:53
or an idealist masquerading as a realist, as people always wondered
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或者是伪装成理想主义者的现实主义者，正如人们经常
11:57
about Bobby Kennedy and John Kennedy in that way.
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描述博比肯尼迪和约翰肯尼迪那样。
12:00
What he was was a decathlete of nation-building, of problem-solving,
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他像全能运动员一样，处理国家建设，解决问题，
12:04
of troubleshooting in the world's worst places
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解决世界上最难的问题，
12:07
and in the world's most broken places.
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以及走访世界上最动乱的地方。
12:10
In failing states, genocidal states, under-governed states,
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在破碎的政权、种族灭绝的国家、无政府国家中，
12:14
precisely the kinds of places that threats to this country exist
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正是这些对这个国家一直构成威胁，
12:19
on the horizon, and precisely the kinds of places
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也正是在这些地方
12:22
where most of the world's suffering tends to get concentrated.
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集中了世界上最悲惨的遭遇。
12:26
These are the places he was drawn to.
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他正是被吸引到了这些地方。
12:28
He moved with the headlines.
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他大张旗鼓地去了那里。
12:30
He was in the U.N. for 34 years. He joined at the age of 21.
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他加入联合国34年，从21岁开始加入。
12:35
Started off when the causes in the wars du jour in the '70s
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从70年代的战争时期加入
12:38
were wars of independence and decolonization.
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是独立和反对殖民主义的战争。
12:40
He was there in Bangladesh
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那时他在孟加拉国
12:42
dealing with the outflow of millions of refugees --
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处理成百万的难民外流-
12:44
the largest refugee flow in history up to that point.
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那是当时历史上最大的难民潮。
12:47
He was in Sudan when the civil war broke out there.
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当苏丹内战爆发时他正在那里。
12:50
He was in Cyprus right after the Turkish invasion.
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在土耳其入侵时，他正在塞浦路斯。
12:53
He was in Mozambique for the War of Independence.
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他在莫桑比克参与了独立运动。
12:55
He was in Lebanon. Amazingly, he was in Lebanon -- the U.N. base was used --
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他在黎巴嫩。很神奇的是，他在黎巴嫩-联合国基地被用来-
12:58
Palestinians staged attacks out from behind the U.N. base.
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正是在联合国基地后部不远处巴勒斯坦人发动了攻击。
13:02
Israel then invaded and overran the U.N. base.
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以色列人入侵，占据了当时的联合国基地。
13:05
Sergio was in Beirut when the U.S. Embassy was hit
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当美国大使馆被袭时，塞尔吉奥在贝鲁特
13:07
by the first-ever suicide attack against the United States.
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受到针对美国政府的第一个自杀性人体炸弹的袭击。
13:10
People date the beginning of this new era to 9/11, but surely 1983,
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人们认为自杀炸弹事件最早是9/11，但是事实上应该是在1983年，
13:15
with the attack on the US Embassy and the Marine barracks --
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对美国大使馆和海军基地的袭击-
13:17
which Sergio witnessed -- those are, in fact, in some ways,
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这些塞尔吉奥都目睹了-事实上，在某种程度上，
13:20
the dawning of the era that we find ourselves in today.
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这些是我们今天这些运动的起点。
13:24
From Lebanon he went to Bosnia in the '90s.
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90年代，从黎巴嫩回来之后，他去了波西尼亚。
13:27
The issues were, of course, ethnic sectarian violence.
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那些事件是种族宗教暴力。
13:31
He was the first person to negotiate with the Khmer Rouge.
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他是第一个与红色高棉人进行谈判的。
13:34
Talk about evil prevailing. I mean, here he was in the room
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谈论邪恶的盛行。我的意思是，当前他与
13:37
with the embodiment of evil in Cambodia.
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柬埔寨邪恶的代表在同一个房间。
13:39
He negotiates with the Serbs.
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他与塞尔维亚人谈判。
13:41
He actually crosses so far into this realm of talking to evil
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他甚至谈论到了善恶
13:45
and trying to convince evil that it doesn't need to prevail
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并且试图说服恶的一方不要那么猖獗，
13:48
that he earns the nickname -- not Sergio but Serbio
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为此，他得到了一个昵称-不是塞尔吉奥而是赛尔比奥
13:51
while he's living in the Balkans and conducting these kinds of negotiations.
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当时他就住在巴尔干，进行这些谈判。
13:56
He then goes to Rwanda and to Congo in the aftermath of the genocide,
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他之后去到卢旺达和刚果，就在种族屠杀之后，
13:59
and he's the guy who has to decide -- huh, OK, the genocide is over;
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他是那种有决心的人-嗯，好啦，种族屠杀到此为止吧，
14:02
800,000 people have been killed; the people responsible are fleeing
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80万人已经被杀死了；对此负责的人已经转移
14:06
into neighboring countries -- into Congo, into Tanzania.
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到邻近的国家-到刚果，到坦桑比亚。
14:09
I'm Sergio, I'm a humanitarian, and I want to feed those --
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我是塞尔吉奥，我是人道主义者，我会援助那些-
14:12
well, I don't want to feed the killers
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当然，我不想援助杀手，
14:14
but I want to feed the two million people who are with them, so we're going to go,
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但我想救助与杀手混在一起的两百万人口，所以我们出发吧，
14:17
we're going to set up camps,
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我们到那里建难民营，
14:19
and we're going to supply humanitarian aid.
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我们要提供人道主义援助。
14:21
But, uh-oh, the killers are within the camps.
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但是，哦，杀手也在那些难民营里。
14:24
Well, I'd like to separate the sheep from the wolves.
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我要把羊和狼分开。
14:26
Let me go door-to-door to the international community
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让我们到国际社区挨个去找国家，
14:28
and see if anybody will give me police or troops to do the separation.
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看看是否有哪个国家愿意派出军队或者警察来把杀手和难民分开。
14:31
And their response, of course, was no more than we wanted
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当然，他们的反应不仅仅想阻止
14:34
to stop the genocide and put our troops in harm's way to do that,
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种族屠杀，并用军队以一种伤害的方式来区分杀手和难民，
14:37
nor do we now want to get in the way and pluck genocidaires from camps.
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我们当时也不想以这种武力方式把种族屠杀分子从难民营里驱逐出去。
14:42
So then you have to make the decision.
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随后你必须做这个决定。
14:44
Do you turn off the international spigot of life support
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你要么断绝挽救生命的国际援助，
14:46
and risk two million civilian lives?
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拿两百万人的生命冒险？
14:50
Or do you continue feeding the civilians, knowing that the genocidaires
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或者你继续救助这些难民，即使知道种族屠杀分子就在
14:53
are in the camps, literally sharpening their knives for future battle?
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人群中间，并且为继续屠杀暗暗做着准备？
14:57
What do you do?
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你会怎么选择？
14:58
It's all lesser-evil terrain in these broken places.
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在这些破碎的地方，都会面临较小恶行这样的选择。
15:01
Late '90s: nation-building is the cause du jour.
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90年代后期：建设国家是根本之道。
15:04
He's the guy put in charge. He's the Paul Bremer or the Jerry Bremer
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塞尔吉奥是那个负责的家伙。他是什么保罗·布雷默或者杰瑞·布雷默，
15:08
of first Kosovo and then East Timor. He governs the places.
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他首先走访科索沃，之后是东帝汶。他管理那些地方。
15:11
He's the viceroy. He has to decide on tax policy, on currency,
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他是主管，他必须决定税收政策和货币，
15:15
on border patrol, on policing. He has to make all these judgments.
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安排边境巡逻和部署警力。他必须做这些判断。
15:19
He's a Brazilian in these places. He speaks seven languages.
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在这些地方，他是一个巴西人，会七种语言。
15:22
He's been up to that point in 14 war zones
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到那时，他已经去过14个战争地区
15:24
so he's positioned to make better judgments, perhaps,
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或许，他能够做出更好的判断，
15:27
than people who have never done that kind of work.
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比那些从未做过类似工作的人。
15:29
But nonetheless, he is the cutting edge of our experimentation
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但是无论如何，他刚好是我们实验的典范
15:33
with doing good with very few resources being brought to bear in,
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用很少的资源做了善事，
15:36
again, the world's worst places.
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并且，是在世界上最糟糕的地方。
15:38
And then after Timor, 9/11 has happened,
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在帝汶岛(马来群岛中一岛)之后，发生了9/11事件，
15:41
he's named U.N. Human Rights Commissioner,
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他作为联合国的人权事务高级专员，
15:43
and he has to balance liberty and security and figure out,
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必须在自由和安全之间实现平衡，并指出，
15:46
what do you do when the most powerful country in the United Nations
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在联合国最有实力的国家
15:49
is bowing out of the Geneva Conventions,
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违反了日内瓦国际公约，
15:52
bowing out of international law? Do you denounce?
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违反了国际法之后你该怎么办？你会站出来谴责吗？
15:54
Well, if you denounce,
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如果你谴责的话，
15:55
you're probably never going to get back in the room.
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你或许再也无法回到那个团体中。
15:57
Maybe you stay reticent. Maybe you try to charm President Bush --
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或许你保持沉默。也或许你试图说服布什政府-
16:02
and that's what he did. And in so doing he earned himself,
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他正是这么做的。正是因为这样，他为自己赢得了，
16:05
unfortunately, his final and tragic appointment to Iraq --
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不幸的是，他最后一任也是最悲惨的一任职务，去伊拉克-
16:08
the one that resulted in his death.
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正是这导致了他的死亡。
16:10
One note on his death, which is so devastating,
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关于他去世还有一个需要注意的，也是令人绝望的，
16:13
is that despite predicating the war on Iraq
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那就是，尽管发动了伊拉克战争，
16:15
on a link between Saddam Hussein and terrorism in 9/11,
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借着萨达姆侯赛因和911恐怖袭击的机会，
16:20
believe it or not, the Bush administration or the invaders
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信不信有你，布什政府或者说入侵者
16:23
did no planning, no pre-war planning, to respond to terrorism.
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并没有计划，没有在战前计划对恐怖主义做出反应。
16:27
So Sergio -- this receptacle of all of this learning on how to deal with evil
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因此，塞尔吉奥-他在学习如何处理恶行方面是最值得尊敬的一位
16:31
and how to deal with brokenness,
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并且知道如何处理烂摊子-
16:33
lay under the rubble for three and a half hours without rescue.
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他躺倒在废墟中三个半小时，无一人援救。
16:37
Stateless. The guy who tried to help the stateless people his whole career.
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没有国籍。在他的一生中，塞尔吉奥尽力帮助那些没有国籍的人。
16:41
Like a refugee. Because he represents the U.N.
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像一个难民营。因为他代表着联合国。
16:43
If you represent everyone, in some ways you represent no one.
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如果你代表每一个人，在某种程度上也可以说你谁也代表不了。
16:46
You're un-owned.
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你不被任何人接受。
16:48
And what the American -- the most powerful military in the history of mankind
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美国-这个人类历史上最强大的军事国家
16:51
was able to muster for his rescue,
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能够为挽救他的生命做些什么呢，
16:53
believe it or not, was literally these heroic two American soldiers
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信不信由你，实质上只两个英雄式的美国士兵
16:57
went into the shaft. Building was shaking.
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走到建筑物里面。建筑物在摇晃。
16:59
One of them had been at 9/11 and lost his buddies on September 11th,
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他们其中一个曾经经历过911事件，并在事件中丧失了他的伙伴，
17:03
and yet went in and risked his life in order to save Sergio.
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走进了摇晃的建筑物，冒着生命的危险救塞尔吉奥。
17:05
But all they had was a woman's handbag --
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他们当时拥有的仅仅是一个女士手提包-
17:09
literally one of those basket handbags --
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具体来说是一个篮子-
17:11
and they tied it to a curtain rope from one of the offices at U.N. headquarters,
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他们把篮子绑到联合国总部大楼一间办公室的窗帘绳上，
17:15
and created a pulley system into this shaft in this quivering building
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制作了一个轮滑系统伸到了摇晃建筑物中的这个部分
17:20
in the interests of rescuing this person,
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为了救这个人，
17:23
the person we most need to turn to now, this shepherd,
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这个我们当前最需要救助的，这个牧羊人，
17:26
at a time when so many of us feel like we're lacking guidance.
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每次当我们感觉缺乏指导的时候。
17:29
And this was the pulley system. This was what we were able to muster for Sergio.
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那个简易的轮滑系统。那是我们能够挽救塞尔吉奥的东西。
17:32
The good news, for what it's worth,
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好消息，也是值得的，
17:34
is after Sergio and 21 others were killed that day in the attack on the U.N.,
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是当塞尔吉奥和其他21个在那天针对联合国的袭击中牺牲之后，
17:38
the military created a search and rescue unit
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部队成立了调查和援救小组，
17:40
that had the cutting equipment, the shoring wood, the cranes,
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他们有切割设备，有用于支护的木头，起重机，
17:44
the things that you would have needed to do the rescue.
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那些在营救中必须的设备。
17:46
But it was too late for Sergio.
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但是这对塞尔吉奥来说已经太迟了。
17:48
I want to wrap up, but I want to close
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我想做个总结，但是我想以
17:50
with what I take to be the four lessons from Sergio's life
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我从塞尔吉奥一生中学到的四个教训结束，
17:54
on this question of how do we prevent evil from prevailing,
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关于如何阻止恶行的蔓延，
17:57
which is how I would have framed the question.
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也是我理解这个问题的方式。
18:00
Here's this guy who got a 34-year head start
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正是这个人花了34年时间
18:03
thinking about the kinds of questions we as a country are grappling with,
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思考我们这个国家正在努力解决的问题，
18:07
we as citizens are grappling with now. What do we take away?
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我们这些公民正在面临的问题。我们能学到什么呢？
18:12
First, I think, is his relationship to, in fact, evil is something to learn from.
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首先，我认为，是他与恶行的关系，事实上，恶行是需要学习的，
18:17
He, over the course of his career, changed a great deal.
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他，在他的一生中，做出了许多改变。
18:20
He had a lot of flaws, but he was very adaptive.
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他有很多不足，但是他的适应能力很强。
18:22
I think that was his greatest quality.
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我认为这是他最棒的品质。
18:24
He started as somebody who would denounce harmdoers,
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他一开始也谴责那些造成伤害的人，
18:28
he would charge up to people who were violating international law,
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他指控那些违反国际法的人，
18:31
and he would say, you're violating, this is the U.N. Charter.
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他会说，你犯法了，这是联合国的条例。
18:33
Don't you see it's unacceptable what you're doing?
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难道你不觉得你这样做是难以让人接受的？
18:35
And they would laugh at him because he didn't have the power of states,
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他们会嘲笑他，因为他没有国家的实力，
18:38
the power of any military or police.
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也没有军队和警察。
18:40
He just had the rules, he had the norms, and he tried to use them.
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他有的只是规则，标准，试图使用它们。
18:43
And in Lebanon, Southern Lebanon in '82,
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在黎巴嫩南部，1982年，
18:46
he said to himself and to everybody else,
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他对自己和其他人说，
18:49
I will never use the word "unacceptable" again.
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我再也不用“无法接受”一词了。
18:52
I will never use it. I will try to make it such,
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我绝不使用它。我试图这样做，
18:54
but I will never use that word again.
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但是我再也不会用这个词了。
18:56
But he lunged in the opposite direction.
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他朝着另一个方向走去。
18:58
He started, as I mentioned, to get in the room with evil,
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他开始，就像我提到的，开始走进恶行，
19:01
to not denounce, and became almost obsequious
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不去谴责，几乎变得顺从，
19:05
when he won the nickname Serbio, for instance,
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例如，当他赢得赛尔比奥这个昵称时，
19:08
and even when he negotiated with the Khmer Rouge
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甚至当他与红色高棉人谈判时，
19:10
would black-box what had occurred prior to entering the room.
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在走进谈判室之前也会把那些人曾经做过的恶行放在脑后。
19:14
But by the end of his life, I think he had struck a balance
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在他生命的最后阶段，我认为他在尽力实现平衡，
19:17
that we as a country can learn from.
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这是我们作为一个国家应该学习的。
19:19
Be in the room, don't be afraid of talking to your adversaries,
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在谈判室，不要畏惧你的敌手，
19:23
but don't bracket what happened before you entered the room.
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但是在进入谈判室之前，不要抱着先入为主的态度。
19:27
Don't black-box history. Don't check your principles at the door.
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不要回顾历史。不要检视你的原则。
19:32
And I think that's something that we have to be in the room,
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我想这就是我们在谈判室应该做的，
19:35
whether it's Nixon going to China or Khrushchev and Kennedy
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无论是尼克松去中国、赫鲁晓夫和肯尼迪
19:39
or Reagan and Gorbachev.
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抑或是里根和戈尔巴乔夫的谈判。
19:41
All the great progress in this country with relation to our adversaries
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我们这个国家在于敌手的关系中最大的进步
19:45
has come by going into the room.
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都开始于谈判桌。
19:47
And it doesn't have to be an act of weakness.
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它不必是示弱。
19:50
You can actually do far more to build an international coalition
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实际上，你可以通过谈判和那些
19:53
against a harmdoer or a wrongdoer by being in the room
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造成伤害者或者做错事者建立国际联合。
19:56
and showing to the rest of the world that that person, that regime,
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并且向全世界展示那个人，那个政权
19:59
is the problem and that you, the United States, are not the problem.
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是问题所在，而你，美国，并没有问题。
20:02
Second take-away from Sergio's life, briefly.
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其次从塞尔吉奥一生中学到的，简短地说。
20:06
What I take away, and this in some ways is the most important,
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我学到的，某种程度上是最重要的，
20:08
he espoused and exhibited a reverence for dignity
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他信奉和展现出对尊严的敬重，
20:14
that was really, really unusual.
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这一点，真的，很不同寻常。
20:16
At a micro level, the individuals around him were visible.
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从微观层面说，他能够看到那些他周围的人。
20:20
He saw them.
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他看见了他们。
20:21
At a macro level, he thought, you know,
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从宏观上说，他思考过，要知道，
20:23
we talk about democracy promotion, but we do it in a way sometimes
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我们谈论过促进民主，但是我们实现它的方式
20:26
that's an affront to people's dignity.
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有时候是通过冒犯人的尊严。
20:29
We put people on humanitarian aid
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我们施加人道主义援助，
20:31
and we boast about it because we've spent three billion.
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并且吹嘘这件事情，因为我们因此花了30亿美元。
20:33
It's incredibly important,
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这非常重要，
20:34
those people would no longer be alive if the United States, for instance,
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例如，如果没有美国，这些人会饿死，
20:36
hadn't spent that money in Darfur,
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如果这些钱不花在达尔富尔的话，
20:39
but it's not a way to live.
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但是这并不是指生活方式。
20:40
If we think about dignity in our conduct as citizens
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如果你考虑过，作为公民，我们行为中的尊严
20:43
and as individuals with relation to the people around us,
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以及作为个体与周围人关系，
20:46
and as a country, if we could inject a regard for dignity
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还有作为国家，如果我们能够实现对尊严的敬重
20:48
into our dealings with other countries,
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在于他国交往的过程中，
20:51
it would be something of a revolution.
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这会成为一场革命。
20:53
Third point, very briefly. He talked a lot about freedom from fear.
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在此，很简短。他多次提到不要害怕。
20:57
And I recognize there is so much to be afraid of.
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我认为要怕的东西有许多。
21:00
There are so many genuine threats in the world.
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在这个世界上有那么多真实存在的威胁。
21:02
But what Sergio was talking about is,
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但是塞尔吉奥谈论的是，
21:04
let's calibrate our relationship to the threat.
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让我们来庆祝与威胁的关系。
21:06
Let's not hype the threat; let's actually see it clearly.
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我们不要夸大威胁；而是看清楚它。
21:09
We have reason to be afraid of melting ice caps.
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我们有理由害怕融化的冰川。
21:12
We have reason to be afraid that we haven't secured
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我们有理由害怕我们没有办法去解决
21:15
loose nuclear material in the former Soviet Union.
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前苏联泄露的核物质。
21:18
Let's focus on what are the legitimate challenges and threats,
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让我们集中于立法方面的挑战和威胁，
21:22
but not lunge into bad decisions because of a panic, of a fear.
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不仅仅是因为存在焦虑和害怕就做出错误的决定。
21:27
In times of fear, for instance, one of the things Sergio used to say
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当我们感觉恐惧时，例如，塞尔吉奥曾经说过一件事
21:29
is, fear is a bad advisor.
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他说害怕是个坏顾问。
21:31
We lunge towards the extremes
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我们走向了极端，
21:33
when we aren't operating and trying to, again,
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如果我们不去开创，和试图
21:35
calibrate our relationship to the world around us.
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庆祝我们与周围世界的关系。
21:37
Fourth and final point: he somehow, because he was working
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最后的一点：他，或许由于他
21:40
in all the world's worst places and all lesser evils,
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在世界各地的工作经历，他面对所有较小的恶行时，
21:43
had a humility, of course,
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都有一种谦卑感，当然，
21:45
and an awareness of the complexity of the world around him.
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他对周围世界复杂性的认识也是无与伦比的。
21:48
I mean, such an acute awareness of how hard it was.
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我的意思是，他对到底有多困难有着非常敏锐的认识。
21:50
How Sisyphean this task was of mending,
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要解决这些任务是永远都做不完的，
21:54
and yet aware of that complexity,
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尽管他知道任务的复杂性，
21:56
humbled by it, he wasn't paralyzed by it.
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并由此感到自己的渺小，但是他并没有因此停滞不前。
21:59
And we as citizens, as we go through this experience of the kind of,
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我们作为公民，当我们经历这些，某种程度上的，
22:04
the crisis of confidence, crisis of competence, crisis of legitimacy,
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自信心危机，能力危机和合法性危机，
22:08
I think there's a temptation to pull back from the world and say,
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我认为都会产生一种逃离世界的冲动，并说，
22:11
ah, Katrina, Iraq -- we don't know what we're doing.
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啊，卡媞丽娜，伊拉克-我们不知道自己正在做什么。
22:13
We can't afford to pull back from the world.
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我们承担不起逃离世界的后果。
22:16
It's a question of how to be in the world.
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问题是该如何在这个世界上存在。
22:19
And the lesson, I think,
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这些教训，我认为，
22:20
of the anti-genocide movement that I mentioned,
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这些反种族灭绝运动
22:22
that is a partial success but by no means
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是局部的成功，但是无论如何
22:24
has it achieved what it has set out to do --
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它是否达到了当初设立的目标了呢-
22:27
it'll be many decades, probably, before that happens --
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这需要经过数十年，可能的话，它才能实现目标-
22:30
but is that if we want to see change, we have to become the change.
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但是如果我们想要看到变化，我们自己首先需要改变。
22:34
We can't rely upon our institutions to do the work
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我们不能依赖直觉去做事，
22:38
of necessarily talking to adversaries on their own
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去与我们的敌手谈判，
22:42
without us creating a space for that to happen,
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而不提供实现的可能性，
22:44
for having respect for dignity,
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对尊严报以敬重，
22:46
and for bringing that combination of humility
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把谦逊和
22:48
and a sort of emboldened sense of responsibility
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责任感结合起来
22:51
to our dealings with the rest of the world.
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建设世界上其他地方。
22:53
So will evil prevail? Is that the question?
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恶行会蔓延吗？是这个问题吧？
22:55
I think the short answer is: no, not unless we let it.
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我认为简短的回答应该是，不，除非我们想让它发生。
22:59
Thank you.
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谢谢！
23:00
(Applause)
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（鼓掌）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Samantha Power - Political scientist and journalistSamantha Power studies US foreign policy, especially as it relates to war and human rights. Her books take on the world's worst problems: genocide, civil war and brutal dictatorships.
Why you should listen
Samantha Power is head of Harvard's Carr Center for Human Rights Policy, where she studies US policy as it relates to human rights, genocide and war. She's the author of a famous memo (in policy circles) suggesting that US foreign policy is utterly broken -- that the United States must return to a human rights-centered foreign policy or risk its prestige and respect in the world community. Her latest book is about Sergio Vieira de Mello, a UN diplomat who worked with the world's worst dictators to help protect the human rights of their people.
Power is also a journalist of fearless reputation. She spent 1993 to '96 reporting in the former Yugoslavia, and now contributes reportage and commentary to the New Yorker and Time. Her other books include A Problem from Hell: America and the Age of Genocide.
Samantha Power | Speaker | TED.com