TEDxDePaulUniversity
Kelly Richmond Pope: How whistle-blowers shape history
凱莉·瑞奇蒙·波普: 舉報者如何塑造歷史
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詐欺研究者和紀錄片製作人凱莉·瑞奇蒙·波普分享了她從過去最引人注目的舉報人所學到的教訓。她解釋了他們所分享的資訊如何塑造了社會，以及為什麼他們需要我們的信任和保護。
Kelly Richmond Pope - Fraud researcher, documentary filmmaker
Kelly Richmond Pope researches organizational misconduct, ethics and fraud. Full bio
Kelly Richmond Pope researches organizational misconduct, ethics and fraud. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
How many of us have ever seen something,
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在座有多少人，曾經看到某件事，
00:16
thought that we should report it,
but decided not to?
but decided not to?
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認為應該要舉報，
卻決定不要這麼做？
卻決定不要這麼做？
00:21
And not that I need
to see a show of hands,
to see a show of hands,
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我並不需要看到大家舉手，
00:23
but I'm sure this has happened
to someone in this room before.
to someone in this room before.
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只是我相信在座有很多人
都有過這樣的經驗。
都有過這樣的經驗。
00:26
In fact, when this question
was asked to a group of employees,
was asked to a group of employees,
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事實上，當一群員工
被問到這個問題時，
被問到這個問題時，
00:29
46 percent of them responded
by saying that they had seen something
by saying that they had seen something
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46% 的人回答他們
曾經看到某件事，
曾經看到某件事，
00:32
and decided not to report it.
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卻決定不要舉報。
00:34
So if you raised your hand,
or quietly raised your hand,
or quietly raised your hand,
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所以如果你剛剛有舉手，
或是在心中默默舉手，
或是在心中默默舉手，
00:37
don't feel bad, you're not alone.
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不要覺得難過，
並非只有你一個人如此。
並非只有你一個人如此。
00:40
This message of if you see something
to say something
to say something
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這個「如果你看見了什麼，
說出來」的訊息，
說出來」的訊息，
00:43
is really all around us.
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其實在我們身邊隨處可見。
00:45
Even when driving down the highway,
you see billboards like this,
you see billboards like this,
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即使在高速公路上開車，
也會看到這樣的廣告牌，
也會看到這樣的廣告牌，
00:49
encouraging us to report crime
without revealing ourselves.
without revealing ourselves.
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鼓勵我們在不揭露
自己身分的情況下舉報犯罪，
自己身分的情況下舉報犯罪，
00:52
But I still feel like a lot of us
are really uncomfortable
are really uncomfortable
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但我仍然覺得，大部分人還是無法
很自在地以真相之名站出來。
00:55
coming forward in the name of the truth.
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00:57
I'm an accounting professor,
and I do fraud research.
and I do fraud research.
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我是會計學教授，我研究詐欺。
01:00
And in my class, I encourage my students
to come forward with information
to come forward with information
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在我的課堂上，我會鼓勵我的學生
如果有看到什麼資訊，
要站出來揭發。
要站出來揭發。
01:04
if they see it.
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01:05
Or in other words, encouraging
my students to become whistle-blowers.
my students to become whistle-blowers.
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或是，換句話說，
鼓勵我的學生當舉報者。
鼓勵我的學生當舉報者。
01:09
But if I'm being completely
honest with myself,
honest with myself,
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但如果要我對自己完全誠實，
01:12
I am really conflicted with this message
that I'm sending to my students.
that I'm sending to my students.
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我其實對於我傳達給學生的
這個訊息感到很矛盾。
這個訊息感到很矛盾。
01:15
And here's why.
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原因如下。
01:18
Whistle-blowers are under attack.
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舉報者受到攻擊。
01:21
Headline after headline shows us this.
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一則又一則的頭條，
讓我們很清楚這一點。
讓我們很清楚這一點。
01:25
Many people choose
not to become whistle-blowers
not to become whistle-blowers
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許多人選擇不要當舉報者，
01:28
due to the fear of retaliation.
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因為害怕被報復。
01:30
From demotions to death threats,
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從降職、死亡威脅，
01:34
to job loss --
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到失去工作——
01:36
perpetual job loss.
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永遠失去工作。
01:38
Choosing to become a whistle-blower
is an uphill battle.
is an uphill battle.
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選擇當舉報者等於
在打一場艱難的仗。
在打一場艱難的仗。
01:41
Their loyalty becomes into question.
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他們的忠誠度成了問題。
01:44
Their motives, their trustworthiness.
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他們的動機、他們的可信度。
01:47
So how can I, as a professor
who really cares about her students
who really cares about her students
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所以，我身為一個真的
很關心自己學生的教授，
很關心自己學生的教授，
01:51
encourage them to become whistle-blowers,
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我明明知道舉報者會被如何看待，
01:53
when I know how the world
truly feels about them?
truly feels about them?
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怎麼還能鼓勵學生去當舉報者？
01:56
So, one day I was getting ready
for my annual whistle-blower lecture
for my annual whistle-blower lecture
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所以，有一天，我正在準備
每年要對我學生做的舉報者演講。
每年要對我學生做的舉報者演講。
01:59
with my students.
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我在為「富比士」
寫一篇文章，標題是
寫一篇文章，標題是
02:01
And I was working
on an article for "Forbes,"
on an article for "Forbes,"
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「富國銀行集團及千禧世代舉報？
我們要告訴他們什麼？」
我們要告訴他們什麼？」
02:03
entitled "Wells Fargo
and Millennial Whistle-blowing.
and Millennial Whistle-blowing.
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02:05
What Do We Tell Them?"
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我在寫這篇文章時，
讀到了一個案例，
讀到了一個案例，
02:07
And as I was working on this piece
and reading about the case,
and reading about the case,
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02:10
I became outraged.
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讓我震怒。
02:11
And what made me angry
was when I came to the fact and realized
was when I came to the fact and realized
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讓我生氣的是我得知
02:15
that the employees
that tried to whistle-blow
that tried to whistle-blow
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試圖舉報的員工
02:18
were actually fired.
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真的被開除了。
這件事真的讓我去思考
我一直在給我的學生的訊息。
我一直在給我的學生的訊息。
02:20
And it really made me think
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02:21
about the message
that I was sharing with my students.
that I was sharing with my students.
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02:24
And it made me think: What if my students
had been Wells Fargo employees?
had been Wells Fargo employees?
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它讓我去思考：如果我的學生是
富國銀行集團的員工呢？
02:29
On the one hand, if they whistle-blew,
they would have gotten fired.
they would have gotten fired.
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一方面，如果他們舉報，
他們就會被開除。
02:33
But on the other hand,
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但另一方面，
02:34
if they didn't report
the frauds that they knew,
the frauds that they knew,
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如果他們不舉報他們知道的詐欺，
02:37
the way current regulation is written,
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依據目前的規定，
02:39
employees are held responsible
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員工知情不報
02:42
if they knew something
and didn't report it.
and didn't report it.
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是需要負責的。
02:44
So criminal prosecution is a real option.
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所以受到刑事訴訟真的
是其中一個可能性。
是其中一個可能性。
02:47
What's a person supposed to do
with those type of odds?
with those type of odds?
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在這種勝算很低的
情況下，該怎麼做？
情況下，該怎麼做？
02:50
I of all people know
the valuable contributions
the valuable contributions
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所有人當中，我最清楚
舉報者做出的貢獻是多麼有價值。
02:54
that whistle-blowers make.
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02:56
In fact, most frauds
are discovered by them.
are discovered by them.
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事實上，大部分的詐欺
都是由舉報者發現的。
都是由舉報者發現的。
02:59
Forty two percent of frauds
are discovered by a whistle-blower
are discovered by a whistle-blower
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42% 的詐欺是舉報者發現的，
03:02
in comparison to other methods,
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勝過其他的揭發方式，
03:04
like measurement review
and external audit.
and external audit.
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如測量評估和外部稽核。
03:07
And when you think
about some of the more classic
about some of the more classic
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當你想想一些比較經典
或歷史上的詐欺案例，
或歷史上的詐欺案例，
03:09
or historical fraud cases,
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03:11
it always is around a whistle-blower.
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都是和舉報者脫不了關係。
03:14
Think Watergate --
discovered by a whistle-blower.
discovered by a whistle-blower.
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想想水門案——由舉報者發現。
03:16
Think Enron -- discovered
by a whistle-blower.
by a whistle-blower.
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想想安隆案——由舉報者發現。
03:19
And who can forget about Bernard Madoff,
discovered by a whistle-blower?
discovered by a whistle-blower?
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還有，誰能忘得了伯納·馬多夫案？
也是由舉報者發現。
03:24
It takes a tremendous amount of courage
to come forward in the name of the truth.
to come forward in the name of the truth.
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一個人需要有非常大的勇氣，
才能以真相之名挺身而出。
03:28
But when we think
about the term whistle-blower,
about the term whistle-blower,
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但當我們想到舉報者這個詞時，
03:31
we often think of some
very descriptive words:
very descriptive words:
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我們通常會聯想到一些
非常描述性的字眼：
非常描述性的字眼：
03:35
rat,
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鼠輩、
03:37
snake,
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蛇（陰險的人）、
03:39
traitor,
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叛徒、
03:40
tattletale, weasel.
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搬弄是非的人、黃鼠狼。
03:43
And those are the nice words,
the ones I can say from the stage.
the ones I can say from the stage.
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那些還算是好的字眼，
是我能在台上說出來的。
是我能在台上說出來的。
03:46
And so when I'm not in class,
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所以，當我不在課堂上時，
我會全國到處跑，
我會全國到處跑，
03:48
I go around the country
and I interview white-collar felons,
and I interview white-collar felons,
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訪問詐欺案的白領重罪犯、
舉報者，以及受害者。
舉報者，以及受害者。
03:51
whistle-blowers and victims of fraud.
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03:53
Because really I'm trying to understand
what makes them tick
what makes them tick
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因為我想要了解他們的動機，
03:56
and to bring those experiences
back into the classroom.
back into the classroom.
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並把那些經驗帶回到教室裡。
03:59
But it's my interviews with
whistle-blowers that really stick with me.
whistle-blowers that really stick with me.
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但所有的訪談中，
和舉報者的訪談最讓我難忘。
和舉報者的訪談最讓我難忘。
04:03
And they stick with me,
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我忘不了的原因是
它們讓我質疑我自己的勇氣。
它們讓我質疑我自己的勇氣。
04:04
because they make me question
my own courage.
my own courage.
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04:07
When given the opportunity,
would I actually speak up?
would I actually speak up?
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若給我機會，
我真的會說出來嗎？
04:11
And so, this is a couple stories
that I want to share with you.
that I want to share with you.
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所以，我想要和各位
分享這幾個故事。
分享這幾個故事。
04:14
This is Mary.
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這位是瑪莉。
04:15
Mary Willingham is the whistle-blower
from the University of North Carolina
from the University of North Carolina
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瑪莉·威林漢是
教堂山北卡羅萊納大學的
教堂山北卡羅萊納大學的
04:18
at Chapel Hill, academic fraud case.
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學術詐欺案的舉報者。
04:22
And Mary was a learning specialist
at the university,
at the university,
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當時瑪莉是該大學中的學習專員，
04:25
and she worked with students,
primarily student athletes.
primarily student athletes.
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她工作時要面對學生，
主要是學生運動員。
主要是學生運動員。
04:28
And what she noticed,
when she was working with students,
when she was working with students,
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當她在帶這些學生時，她注意到
04:31
is they were turning in term papers
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學生們交給她的學期報告
04:34
that seemed well beyond
their reading levels.
their reading levels.
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程度似乎遠超過他們的閱讀水準。
04:37
She started to ask a couple of questions
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她開始問一些問題，
04:39
and she found out
that there was a database
that there was a database
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她發現有一個資料庫存在，
04:41
where the student athletes
could retrieve papers and turn them in.
could retrieve papers and turn them in.
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學生運動員可以從
這個資料庫取得報告來繳交。
這個資料庫取得報告來繳交。
04:44
And then she found out
that some of her colleagues
that some of her colleagues
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接著她發現，她的一些同事
04:47
were funneling students into fake classes,
just to keep them eligible to play.
just to keep them eligible to play.
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幫學生安排假課程，
好讓他們有資格繼續參賽。
04:53
Now, when Mary found this out,
she was outraged.
she was outraged.
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當瑪莉發現這些時，她非常生氣。
04:56
And so what she tried to do
was go to her direct supervisor.
was go to her direct supervisor.
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她試著去找她的直屬主管。
04:59
But they didn't do anything.
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但他們沒有採取行動。
05:01
And then Mary tried to go to some
internal university administrators.
internal university administrators.
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接著，瑪莉試著去找
大學內部的一些管理者。
大學內部的一些管理者。
05:04
And they didn't do anything.
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他們沒有採取行動。
05:06
So, what happens when nobody listens?
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所以，當沒有人肯聽你的話時，
怎麼辦？
怎麼辦？
05:08
You blog.
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你寫網誌。
05:10
So Mary decided to develop a blog.
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所以瑪莉決定開一個部落格。
05:12
Her blog went viral within 24 hours,
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在二十四小時之內，
她的部落格被瘋傳，
她的部落格被瘋傳，
05:14
and she was contacted by a reporter.
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一名記者去聯絡她。
05:17
Now, when she was contacted
by this reporter,
by this reporter,
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當她被這位記者聯絡上時，
05:19
her identity was known.
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她的身分就廣為人知的了。
05:21
She was exposed.
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她已經曝光了。
05:22
And when she was exposed,
she received a demotion,
she received a demotion,
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當她曝光之後，她就被降級，
05:26
death threats, over collegiate sports.
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還收到來自
大學運動聯盟的死亡威脅。
大學運動聯盟的死亡威脅。
05:30
Mary didn't do anything wrong.
She didn't participate in the fraud.
She didn't participate in the fraud.
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瑪莉並沒有做錯事。
她並沒有參與詐欺。
她並沒有參與詐欺。
05:34
She really thought
that she was giving voice
that she was giving voice
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她真的認為她是在
為無法發聲的學生發聲。
為無法發聲的學生發聲。
05:36
to students that were voiceless.
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05:38
But her loyalty was questioned.
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但她的忠誠受到質疑。
05:41
Her trustworthiness and her motives.
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她的可信度和她的動機。
05:45
Now, whistle-blowing
doesn't always have to end
doesn't always have to end
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舉報不見得最後一定會都得到
05:48
in demotions or death threats.
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降職或死亡威脅。
05:50
Actually, in 2002, this was
the cover of "Time" magazine,
the cover of "Time" magazine,
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事實上，在 2002 年，
這是《時代》雜誌的封面，
這是《時代》雜誌的封面，
05:54
where we were actually honoring
three brave whistle-blowers
three brave whistle-blowers
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我們表揚了三位勇敢的舉報者，
05:57
for their decision to come forward
in the name of the truth.
in the name of the truth.
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因為他們決定以真相之名挺身而出。
06:00
And when you look at the research,
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根據研究結果，
06:02
22 percent of whistle-blowers
actually report retaliation.
actually report retaliation.
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22% 的舉報者說
他們確實遭到報復。
他們確實遭到報復。
06:06
So there is a huge population of people
that report and are not retaliated against
that report and are not retaliated against
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所以有很多人
舉報但沒有遭到報復，
06:11
and that gives me hope.
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那讓我燃起希望。
06:14
So this is Kathe.
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這位是凱西。
06:15
Kathe Swanson is a retired city clerk
from the city of Dixon.
from the city of Dixon.
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凱西·史萬森是迪克森市的
退休辦事員。
退休辦事員。
06:20
And one day, Kathe was doing her job,
just like she always did,
just like she always did,
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有一天，凱西在一如往常地工作時，
06:24
and she stumbled upon
a pretty interesting case.
a pretty interesting case.
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她偶然發現一個很有趣的案件。
06:27
See, Kathe was at the end of the month,
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那時是月底，
06:29
and she was doing
her treasures report for the city,
her treasures report for the city,
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凱西在為市政府做財務報告，
06:32
and typically, her boss, Rita Crundwell,
gave her a list of accounts and said,
gave her a list of accounts and said,
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通常，她的老闆瑞塔·克朗威爾
會給她一份帳戶清單，並說：
會給她一份帳戶清單，並說：
06:36
"Kathe, call the bank
and get these specific accounts."
and get these specific accounts."
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「凱西，打電話給銀行，
取得這些帳戶的資料。」
取得這些帳戶的資料。」
06:39
And Kathe did her job.
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凱西就照做。
06:41
But this particular day,
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但就在這一天，
瑞塔出城了，而凱西很忙。
06:42
Rita was out of town, and Kathe was busy.
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她拿起電話，打給銀行，說：
「請把所有的帳戶的資料傳真給我。」
「請把所有的帳戶的資料傳真給我。」
06:45
She picks up the phone, she calls the bank
and says, "Fax me all of the accounts."
and says, "Fax me all of the accounts."
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06:50
And when she gets the fax,
she sees that there is an account
she sees that there is an account
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當她拿到傳真之後，
她注意到有一個帳戶
她注意到有一個帳戶
有她不知情的提款和存款記錄。
06:53
that has some withdrawals
and deposits in it
and deposits in it
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06:55
that she did not know about.
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06:57
It was an account controlled only by Rita.
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這個帳戶只由瑞塔親自管理。
07:00
So Kathe looked at the information,
she reported it to her direct supervisor,
she reported it to her direct supervisor,
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所以，凱西看了那些資訊，
呈報她的直屬主管，
也就是當時的市長柏克。
也就是當時的市長柏克。
07:04
which was then-mayor Burke,
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07:06
and this led into a huge investigation,
a six-month investigation.
a six-month investigation.
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此舉造成了為期
六個月的大規模調查。
六個月的大規模調查。
07:11
Come to find out, Kathe's boss,
Rita Crundwell, was embezzling money.
Rita Crundwell, was embezzling money.
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後來發現，凱西的老闆
瑞塔·克朗威爾一直在盜用公款。
瑞塔·克朗威爾一直在盜用公款。
07:16
Rita was embezzling 53 million dollars
over a 20-year period,
over a 20-year period,
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瑞塔在二十年的期間，
盜用了五千三百萬美金，
07:21
and Kathe just happened
to stumble upon it.
to stumble upon it.
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凱西只是碰巧發現了。
07:25
Kathe is a hero.
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凱西是位英雄。
07:28
And actually, I had the opportunity
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其實，我的紀錄片
《女王所有的人馬》
《女王所有的人馬》
07:29
of interviewing Kathe for my documentary,
"All the Queen's Horses."
"All the Queen's Horses."
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讓我有機會訪問凱西。
07:33
And Kathe wasn't seeking fame.
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凱西並不想要名氣。
07:35
In fact, she really didn't want
to talk to me for a really long time,
to talk to me for a really long time,
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事實上，有很長一段時間
她都不願意和我談，
她都不願意和我談，
07:39
but through strategic stalking,
she ended up doing the interview.
she ended up doing the interview.
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但透過策略性的跟蹤，
她最後還是接受了訪談。
她最後還是接受了訪談。
07:42
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
但她追求的是公平，不是成名。
07:43
But she was seeking fairness, not fame.
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07:45
And if it wasn't for Kathe,
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若不是凱西，
07:47
who's to say this fraud
would have ever been discovered?
would have ever been discovered?
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誰敢說這件詐欺會被揭發出來？
07:51
So, remember that "Forbes" article
I was talking about,
I was talking about,
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還記得我剛說過的富比士文章嗎？
07:53
that I was working on before my lecture?
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我演講前在寫的文章？
07:55
Well, I posted it and something
really fantastic happened.
really fantastic happened.
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我把它刊出來了，
接著發生了很棒的事。
接著發生了很棒的事。
07:59
I started receiving emails
from whistle-blowers all over the world.
from whistle-blowers all over the world.
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我開始收到全世界
舉報者寄來的電子郵件。
舉報者寄來的電子郵件。
08:04
And as I was receiving these emails
and responding back to them,
and responding back to them,
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我在收到這些電子郵件之後，
會回信給他們，
會回信給他們，
08:07
there was a common theme
in the message that I received,
in the message that I received,
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在我收到的訊息當中，
有一個共通的主題，就是：
有一個共通的主題，就是：
08:10
and this is what it was:
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他們都會這樣說：「我舉報了，
現在大家都很討厭我。
現在大家都很討厭我。
08:11
they all said this, "I blew the whistle,
people really hate me now.
people really hate me now.
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08:15
I got fired, but guess what?
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我被開除了，但你知道嗎？
08:18
I would do it all over again if I could."
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如果重來一次，我還是會這麼做。」
08:21
And so as I kept reading this message,
all these messages,
all these messages,
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當我繼續閱讀著這些訊息，
08:24
I wanted to think,
what could I share with my students?
what could I share with my students?
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我在思考，
我能和我的學生分享什麼？
我能和我的學生分享什麼？
08:27
And so, I pulled it all together
and this is what I learned.
and this is what I learned.
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所以，我把一切整理起來，
以下是我所學到的。
以下是我所學到的。
08:31
It's important for us to cultivate hope.
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我們要培養希望，這是很重要的。
08:34
Whistle-blowers are hopeful.
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舉報者抱有希望。
08:36
Despite popular belief,
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不論大眾怎麼想，他們並非全都是
08:37
they're not all disgruntled employees
that have a beef with the company.
that have a beef with the company.
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對公司有所抱怨的不滿員工。
08:42
Their hopefulness really is
what drives them to come forward.
what drives them to come forward.
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他們之所以會站出來，
背後的動因就是他們抱有希望。
背後的動因就是他們抱有希望。
08:46
We also have to cultivate commitment.
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我們也得要培養投入。
08:48
Whistle-blowers are committed.
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舉報者是投入的人。
08:50
And it's that passion
to their organization
to their organization
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正是對公司的熱忱，
08:53
that makes them want to come forward.
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讓他們想要站出來。
08:55
Whistle-blowers are humble.
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舉報者是謙遜的。
08:57
Again, they're not seeking fame,
but they are seeking fairness.
but they are seeking fairness.
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同樣的，他們追求的不是出名，
他們在追求的是公平。
他們在追求的是公平。
09:01
And we need to continue
to cultivate bravery.
to cultivate bravery.
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另外，我們需要持續培養勇氣。
09:04
Whistle-blowers are brave.
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舉報者很勇敢。
09:05
Often, they underestimated
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他們通常低估
09:09
the impact whistle-blowing
had on their family,
had on their family,
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舉報對於他們的家庭造成的影響，
09:12
but what they continue to comment on
is how hard it is to withhold the truth.
is how hard it is to withhold the truth.
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但他們持續敘述的是
隱瞞真相是多麼困難。
隱瞞真相是多麼困難。
09:17
With that, I want to leave you
with one additional name:
with one additional name:
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因此，我最後想留給各位一個名字：
09:20
Peter Buxtun.
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彼得·巴克斯頓。
09:23
Peter Buxtun was a 27-year-old
employee for the US Public Health Service.
employee for the US Public Health Service.
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二十七歲的彼得·巴克斯頓是
美國公共衛生局的員工。
09:29
And he was hired to interview people
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他被僱來訪談
因為性行為而染上疾病的人。
09:33
that had sexually transmitted diseases.
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09:35
And through the course of his work,
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在他工作的過程中，
09:37
he noticed a clinical study
that was going on within the organization.
that was going on within the organization.
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他注意到組織中正在
進行一項臨床研究。
進行一項臨床研究。
09:41
And it was a study that was looking
at the progression of untreated syphilis.
at the progression of untreated syphilis.
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這項研究是在探究
未被治療之梅毒的發展。
未被治療之梅毒的發展。
09:45
And so, there were
600 African American males
600 African American males
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這項研究中有六百位
非裔美國男性。
非裔美國男性。
09:48
that were in this study.
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他們被誘使參加研究，誘因是
09:49
They were enticed into the study
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09:51
through being given
free medical exams, burial insurance.
free medical exams, burial insurance.
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給予他們免費的體檢和喪葬保險。
09:55
And so, what happened
through the course of this study,
through the course of this study,
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在這項研究進行的過程中
發生了一件事，
發生了一件事，
09:59
is penicillin was discovered
to help treat syphilis.
to help treat syphilis.
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盤尼西林已被發現
可以協助治療梅毒。
可以協助治療梅毒。
10:04
And what Peter noticed was,
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而彼得所注意到的是，
10:06
the participants in this study
were not given the penicillin
were not given the penicillin
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這項研究的受試者
並沒有得到盤尼西林
並沒有得到盤尼西林
10:10
to treat their syphilis.
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來治療他們的梅毒。
10:11
And the participants didn't know.
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而受試者並不知情。
10:13
So similar to Mary, Peter tried to report
and talk to his internal supervisors,
and talk to his internal supervisors,
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和瑪莉很類似，
彼得試圖舉報，
並和內部的主管談這件事，
並和內部的主管談這件事，
10:18
but no one listened.
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但沒有人肯聽。
10:20
And so Peter thought
this was completely unfair
this was completely unfair
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彼得認為這非常不公平，
10:22
and he tried to report again,
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他再次試圖舉報，
10:24
and finally talked to a reporter --
very similar to Mary.
very similar to Mary.
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終於，他和一位記者談過——
和瑪莉的狀況非常像。
和瑪莉的狀況非常像。
10:28
And in 1972, this was the front page
of the "New York Times":
of the "New York Times":
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1972 年，這是
《紐約時報》的頭版：
《紐約時報》的頭版：
10:32
"Syphilis Victims in US Study
Went Untreated for 40 Years."
Went Untreated for 40 Years."
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「美國研究的梅毒受害者，
四十年沒有被治療。」
四十年沒有被治療。」
10:37
This is known to us today
as the Tuskegee syphilis experiment.
as the Tuskegee syphilis experiment.
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這就是我們現今所知道的
「塔斯基吉梅毒實驗」。
10:42
And Peter was the whistle-blower.
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舉報者正是彼得。
10:44
What happened to the 600 men,
you may wonder, the 600 original men?
you may wonder, the 600 original men?
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你可能在納悶，
這六百個人後來怎麼了？
這六百個人後來怎麼了？
10:48
Twenty eight men died from syphilis.
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其中二十八人死於梅毒。
10:51
One hundred died
from syphilis complications,
from syphilis complications,
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一百人因為梅毒併發症而死，
10:54
forty wives were infected
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四十位妻子受到感染，
10:56
and 10 children were born
with congenital syphilis.
with congenital syphilis.
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十名孩子出生時就有先天性梅毒。
10:59
Who's to say what these numbers would be
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如果彼得沒有做出這勇敢的舉動，
11:01
if it wasn't for the brave,
courageous act of Peter?
courageous act of Peter?
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天知道這些數字會是多少？
11:05
We're all connected to Peter, actually.
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其實，我們都和彼得有所連結。
11:08
If you know anybody
that's in a clinical trial,
that's in a clinical trial,
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如果你認識任何
參與臨床試驗的人，
參與臨床試驗的人，
11:10
the reason why we have
informed consent today
informed consent today
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現今我們會有「知情同意」的原因，
11:14
is because of Peter's courageous act.
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就是因為彼得勇敢的舉動。
11:17
So let me ask you a question.
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讓我問各位一個問題。
把原本的問題改個問法。
把原本的問題改個問法。
11:18
That original question,
a variation of the original question.
a variation of the original question.
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11:21
How many of us have ever used the term
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有多少人曾經用下列這些詞：
11:24
snitch, rat
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抓耙子、鼠輩、
11:27
tattletale,
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搬弄是非的人、
11:29
snake,
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蛇（陰險的人）、
11:31
weasel,
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黃鼠狼、
11:32
leak?
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洩密者？
11:34
Anybody?
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有人用過嗎？
11:39
Before you get the urge to do that again,
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下次當你有衝動想要
再說出這些詞之前，
再說出這些詞之前，
11:42
I want you to think a little bit.
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我希望你能稍微想一下。
11:44
It might be the Mary,
the Peter, the Kathes of the world.
the Peter, the Kathes of the world.
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你說的人可能就是世界上的
瑪莉、彼得、凱西。
瑪莉、彼得、凱西。
11:49
You might be the person
that could shape history,
that could shape history,
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你可能就是能夠塑造歷史的人，
11:52
or they could be the person
that shapes yours.
that shapes yours.
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或者，他們可能就是
塑造你的歷史的人。
塑造你的歷史的人。
11:55
Thank you.
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謝謝。
11:56
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Kelly Richmond Pope - Fraud researcher, documentary filmmakerKelly Richmond Pope researches organizational misconduct, ethics and fraud.
Why you should listen
Kelly Richmond Pope is an Associate Professor in the School of Accountancy and MIS at DePaul University where her research focuses on how organizations design cultures and compliance systems to confront the challenges of organizational misconduct, ethics and fraud. She also teaches in executive education programs at the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University and the Quilan School of Business at Loyola University.
Pope's research on organizational misconduct culminated into directing and producing the award-winning documentary, All the Queen's Horses in 2017. Renowned Chicago Sun-Times film critic Richard Roeper cites "kudos to director Kelly Richmond Pope for applying just the right mix of 'What the heck?' whimsy and respectful, serious reporting to this incredible tale." All the Queen's Horses explores the largest municipal fraud in United States history and premiered as the #1 documentary on iTunes, Amazon Prime Video, Google Play and Direct TV during its debut week on the video on demand platforms in April 2018.
At the organizational level, Pope examines factors that encourage employees to whistle-blow as well as the ethical decision-making process. This research has been published in leading accounting and business ethics journals and resulted in being selected to develop a TED-Ed lesson entitled "How people rationalize fraud."
Pope is a popular keynote speaker and frequently advises firms about their compliance programs and training. She is regularly invited to speak to regulators, including the Department of Justice, Securities and Exchange Commission, PCAOB, Internal Revenue Service-Criminal Investigations and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Prior to joining the faculty at DePaul University, Pope worked in the forensic accounting practice at KPMG. She received her doctorate in accounting from Virginia Tech and is a licensed certified public accountant.
Kelly Richmond Pope | Speaker | TED.com