TED@Westpac
Sarah Donnelly: How work kept me going during my cancer treatment
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When lawyer Sarah Donnelly was diagnosed with breast cancer, she turned to her friends and family for support -- but she also found meaning, focus and stability in her work. In a personal talk about why and how she stayed on the job, she shares her insights on how workplaces can accommodate people going through major illnesses -- because the benefits go both ways.
Sarah Donnelly - Lawyer
Westpac's Sarah Donnelly wants to encourage more open conversations about why and how an individual might continue to work while undergoing treatment for serious illnesses. Full bio
Westpac's Sarah Donnelly wants to encourage more open conversations about why and how an individual might continue to work while undergoing treatment for serious illnesses. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
It was June 2014.
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I was 30 years old,
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and I received a call
from my doctor's office
from my doctor's office
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to say my test results were in.
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So I walked up to see her
in my lunch break, and my doctor said
in my lunch break, and my doctor said
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she was very sorry to tell me
that I had breast cancer.
that I had breast cancer.
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I didn't want to believe her
and at first, I didn't.
and at first, I didn't.
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You see, I'm a lawyer
and I needed some evidence.
and I needed some evidence.
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So I'm very embarrassed to tell you all
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that I stood up and I walked around
to where she was sitting
to where she was sitting
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so that I could look
over her shoulder and verify
over her shoulder and verify
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what was written
on the page in front of her.
on the page in front of her.
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(Laughter)
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Malignant carcinoma.
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But still not wanting
to believe it, I said,
to believe it, I said,
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"Now, malignant carcinoma,
you're sure that means cancer?"
you're sure that means cancer?"
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(Laughter)
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She told me she was sure.
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Back at work, I handed over
the urgent things that needed to be done
the urgent things that needed to be done
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while I was having more tests
to see if my cancer had spread.
to see if my cancer had spread.
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But at that moment,
work wasn't my priority.
work wasn't my priority.
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I was thinking about how I was going
to tell my family and friends
to tell my family and friends
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that I had cancer.
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How I was going to answer their questions
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about how bad it was
and whether I was going to be OK,
and whether I was going to be OK,
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when I didn't know that myself.
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I was wondering if my partner and I
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would ever have an opportunity
to start a family.
to start a family.
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And I was figuring out
how I was going to tell my mother,
how I was going to tell my mother,
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who had herself had breast cancer
when she was pregnant with me.
when she was pregnant with me.
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She would know how I was feeling
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and have an idea of what lay ahead for me.
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But I also didn't want her
to have to relive her cancer experience.
to have to relive her cancer experience.
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What I didn't appreciate at the time
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was that work was about to play
a huge role in my treatment and recovery.
a huge role in my treatment and recovery.
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That it would be my coworkers and my job
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that would make me feel valuable and human
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at times when I would have
otherwise felt like a statistic.
otherwise felt like a statistic.
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That it would be my job
that would give me routine and stability
that would give me routine and stability
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when I was dealing with so many
difficult personal decisions
difficult personal decisions
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and so much uncertainty.
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Like, what sort of breast
reconstruction I was going to have.
reconstruction I was going to have.
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And at a time like that,
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you would think that I would turn
to my family and friends for support.
to my family and friends for support.
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And yes, of course I did that.
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But it would ultimately be my colleagues
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who would play a huge role
in my day-to-day life.
in my day-to-day life.
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And they would be
the ones to make me laugh.
the ones to make me laugh.
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You see, we were a pretty close team,
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and we shared a couple
of really good in-jokes,
of really good in-jokes,
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like this time they overheard
someone ask me
someone ask me
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how I got my hair so shiny and perfect --
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without knowing that it was,
of course, a wig,
of course, a wig,
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and you know, it was a very good wig
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and it did make getting ready
in the mornings very easy.
in the mornings very easy.
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(Laughter)
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But in little moments like this,
I appreciated what their support meant,
I appreciated what their support meant,
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and I wondered what I would
have done without that network.
have done without that network.
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I've spoken with so many people,
women in particular,
women in particular,
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who haven't had the chance
to have that network
to have that network
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because they haven't been given
the opportunity to work through treatment.
the opportunity to work through treatment.
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And there are several reasons for this.
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But I think it mostly comes down
to overly paternalistic employers.
to overly paternalistic employers.
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These employers want you to go away
and focus on yourself.
and focus on yourself.
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And come back when you're better.
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And they use those kinds of phrases.
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And while these responses
are well-meaning,
are well-meaning,
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knowing the benefits it brought me,
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it makes me incredibly frustrated
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when people are told
that they couldn’t or shouldn't work,
that they couldn’t or shouldn't work,
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when it's something that they want to do
and physically can do.
and physically can do.
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So I started to look into
what an employer is required to do
what an employer is required to do
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when someone presents
with a cancer diagnosis.
with a cancer diagnosis.
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I discovered that under Australian law,
cancer is considered a disability.
cancer is considered a disability.
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So if you are unable to perform
your usual work duties,
your usual work duties,
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your employer is obligated
by the Disability Discrimination Act
by the Disability Discrimination Act
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to make reasonable adjustments
to your working arrangements,
to your working arrangements,
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so that you can continue to work.
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What would reasonable
adjustments look like for me?
adjustments look like for me?
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I knew the obvious impacts
my diagnosis was going to have on work.
my diagnosis was going to have on work.
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Medical appointments would be scheduled
during business hours,
during business hours,
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and I knew that I would need time off
to recover from surgical procedures.
to recover from surgical procedures.
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Again, being a typical lawyer,
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I had done my due diligence
on what to expect from treatment.
on what to expect from treatment.
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Admittedly, a lot of that
was through Doctor Google,
was through Doctor Google,
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perhaps not my best move
and I wouldn't recommend that.
and I wouldn't recommend that.
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(Laughter)
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But while I was ready
for all the physical side effects,
for all the physical side effects,
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what really scared me
was this thing called chemo brain.
was this thing called chemo brain.
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Chemo brain presents itself
through memory loss,
through memory loss,
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an inability to concentrate
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and an inability to solve problems.
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And if this happened to me,
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I wondered how I was going to do
my job as a lawyer.
my job as a lawyer.
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Would I be forced to leave work?
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And how could I possibly
have a discussion with my manager
have a discussion with my manager
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about reasonable adjustments
to my working arrangements
to my working arrangements
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when I didn't know
how I was going to be impacted?
how I was going to be impacted?
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I was fortunate to have
a supportive manager
a supportive manager
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who was happy to see
how things went as we went along,
how things went as we went along,
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rather than requiring
a concrete plan up front.
a concrete plan up front.
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I was lucky that while
he may not have even known
he may not have even known
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about this concept
of reasonable adjustments,
of reasonable adjustments,
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to him, it was just common sense.
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But I've learned that it's not
common sense to everyone.
common sense to everyone.
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Everyone going through treatment
will learn how it impacts them
will learn how it impacts them
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and what their limitations are.
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And they'll learn to adjust for that.
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So for me, there were the tips and tricks
that I learned about the treatment itself,
that I learned about the treatment itself,
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like, before you go to chemo,
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you need to make sure
you're really well hydrated
you're really well hydrated
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and that you're warm, because it helps
the nurses to find your veins.
the nurses to find your veins.
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And make sure that you don't eat
any of your favorite food,
any of your favorite food,
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either before or after chemo,
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because you're going to be
throwing that up
throwing that up
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and you won't ever
want to look at it again.
want to look at it again.
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(Laughter)
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I learned that one the hard way.
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And then there were the tricks
for managing my workflow.
for managing my workflow.
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I scheduled chemo for first thing
on a Monday morning.
on a Monday morning.
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I knew that from the time
I left the cancer care unit,
I left the cancer care unit,
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I had about four hours
before this fog screen would come down
before this fog screen would come down
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and I would start to be sick.
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So I would use that time to clean my inbox
and make any urgent calls.
and make any urgent calls.
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The worst of the sickness would be gone
within about 48 hours.
within about 48 hours.
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And then I would log back
into work from home.
into work from home.
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This treatment continued
and I knew what to expect.
and I knew what to expect.
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I was able to set reasonable expectations
with my business partners
with my business partners
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about what I could do
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and the time frames that I could do it in.
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But I still remember
the hesitation in their voices
the hesitation in their voices
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when it came to asking for things.
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And asking me to do things
by a certain time.
by a certain time.
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And trust me, these were people
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that were not afraid
of setting a good deadline.
of setting a good deadline.
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(Laughter)
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I got the impression they didn't want
to put any extra pressure on me
to put any extra pressure on me
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while I was going through treatment.
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And while I appreciated the sentiment,
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I actually needed the deadlines.
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To me, that was something
within my control
within my control
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and something
that could stay in my control
that could stay in my control
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when there were so many
things that couldn't.
things that couldn't.
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And as I was working from home,
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I was thinking about how employers
should be applying this concept
should be applying this concept
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of reasonable adjustments
in our current age,
in our current age,
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where one in two Australian men and women
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will be diagnosed with cancer
by the age of 85.
by the age of 85.
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So, as we continue to work
longer and longer into older age,
longer and longer into older age,
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the chances of having a serious illness
while we're in the workforce
while we're in the workforce
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are increasing.
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And with technology enabling us
to work anywhere, any time,
to work anywhere, any time,
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reasonable adjustments
are no longer contingent upon
are no longer contingent upon
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whether or not you can continue
to physically make it
to physically make it
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into the physical office.
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Reasonable adjustments are also not about
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just offering a longer break
or a comfier chair to sit in,
or a comfier chair to sit in,
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although those things might be good, too.
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At the very least,
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we need to be applying
the flexibility policies and strategies
the flexibility policies and strategies
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we've developed for other scenarios,
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like for people
with family responsibilities.
with family responsibilities.
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But how can we ensure that people
are even having a conversation
are even having a conversation
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about what reasonable adjustments
might look like for them
might look like for them
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if a manager's first response is to say,
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"Oh no, don't come back to work
until you're better."
until you're better."
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And a light went on for me.
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It must be compulsory for managers
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to have to have these conversations
with their employees.
with their employees.
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And lessons from people like me,
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that have really benefited
from working through treatment,
from working through treatment,
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need to be more widely shared.
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And I thought about what could be done
to guide these conversations,
to guide these conversations,
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and then an amazing
colleague of mine, Camilla Gunn,
colleague of mine, Camilla Gunn,
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developed a "Working with Cancer" toolkit.
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The toolkit provides a framework
for those diagnosed,
for those diagnosed,
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their managers, their carers
and their coworkers
and their coworkers
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to have conversations about cancer
and the work support available.
and the work support available.
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Camilla and I have now been
to other organizations
to other organizations
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to talk about the toolkit
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and how it can help to guide through
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what, quite frankly, are otherwise
some pretty awkward conversations.
some pretty awkward conversations.
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And I'm pleased to say that the uptake
of the toolkit is increasing.
of the toolkit is increasing.
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So what should be
a manager's first response
a manager's first response
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when somebody says that they're sick
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and they don't know
how it's going to impact their work?
how it's going to impact their work?
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It must be this:
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"To the extent that you
are able, and want to,
are able, and want to,
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we would love to work out
an arrangement for you
an arrangement for you
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to continue to work through treatment."
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We need to start positively engaging
people with serious illness
people with serious illness
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to keep them in the workforce,
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rather than paternalistically
pushing them away.
pushing them away.
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I've told you my story
because I want you to know the benefits
because I want you to know the benefits
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that working through treatment brought me.
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And I also want to change your perceptions
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if you think that somebody
going through treatment
going through treatment
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is just bored, frail and vomiting a lot.
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And yes, these things
were true some of the time,
were true some of the time,
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if not a lot of the time,
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but I was also determined
to push myself at work
to push myself at work
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as much as I had always done.
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And I was able to do that
because my employer gave me the choice.
because my employer gave me the choice.
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Most importantly, I'm telling you
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because while it's a seemingly
obvious choice to give someone,
obvious choice to give someone,
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it's not one that is always
offered or encouraged.
offered or encouraged.
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And it must be.
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Thank you.
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(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Sarah Donnelly - LawyerWestpac's Sarah Donnelly wants to encourage more open conversations about why and how an individual might continue to work while undergoing treatment for serious illnesses.
Why you should listen
Sarah Donnelly was diagnosed with breast cancer at 30 years of age -- a story all too familiar among young women in her family. She chose to continue full-time employment throughout treatment and is living proof that work can play a crucial role in a person's mental and physical recovery from a serious illness. While her employer backed her decision, Donnelly has learned that the way organizations approach this issue varies greatly. This has sparked a personal mission to encourage more open conversations about why and how an individual might continue to work while undergoing treatment.
A lawyer by trade, Donnelly is currently the Head of Group Secretariat at Westpac. She is an ally for GLOBAL, Westpac Group's Employee Action Group for LGBTIQ employees, a member of Women of Westpac, an advocate of Breast Cancer Network Australia and volunteers with Vinnie’s Van. She is an avid traveler and, when at home in Sydney's Blue Mountains, can usually be found out on a trail.
Sarah Donnelly | Speaker | TED.com