TED Talks India: Nayi Baat
Deepa Narayan: 7 beliefs that can silence women -- and how to unlearn them
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In India (and many other countries), girls and women still find themselves silenced by traditional rules of politeness and restraint, says social scientist Deepa Narayan. In this frank talk, she identifies seven deeply entrenched norms that reinforce inequality -- and calls on men to help usher in change.
Deepa Narayan - Social psychologist
Deepa Narayan is an international advisor on poverty, gender and development with more than 25 years of experience working at the World Bank, the UN and NGOs. Full bio
Deepa Narayan is an international advisor on poverty, gender and development with more than 25 years of experience working at the World Bank, the UN and NGOs. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
Shah Rukh Khan: "A girl
should be seen, not heard."
should be seen, not heard."
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"Be quiet," or, "chup."
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These words are often used
to silence girls right from childhood,
to silence girls right from childhood,
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well into adulthood
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and deep into old age.
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I'm proud to introduce our next speaker,
a true champion of the female voice,
a true champion of the female voice,
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an advisor on poverty,
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gender and development for the World Bank,
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United Nations and several NGOs
in India and the world over.
in India and the world over.
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She calls herself a cultural detective.
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Let's raise our voices to welcome
renowned social scientist and author
renowned social scientist and author
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Deepa Narayan.
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(Music)
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(Applause)
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Deepa Narayan: The goal
of every loving parent
of every loving parent
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is to raise good girls,
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but what parents actually do
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is to constrain, confine
and crush their girls.
and crush their girls.
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So as they crush their girls,
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they prepare them for abuse.
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This would be so devastating
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that no parent would be able to bear it,
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so it's disguised.
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In India, we call this "adjusting."
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I'm sure you've heard the word.
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"Darling, just adjust a bit.
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Just adjust.
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No matter what happens, just adjust."
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"Adjust" trains girls to be powerless,
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not to exist, not to be seen,
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not to have a self,
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and it trains boys to claim power
and authority over the world.
and authority over the world.
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And in the meantime we keep talking about
gender equality and women's empowerment.
gender equality and women's empowerment.
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After 2012, after the gang rape
in a moving bus in Delhi,
in a moving bus in Delhi,
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I really wanted to understand
the roots of abuse.
the roots of abuse.
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So I started asking
a very simple question:
a very simple question:
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what does it mean to you
to be a good woman or a good man today?
to be a good woman or a good man today?
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And I was so surprised by what I heard,
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the answers particularly
that young people gave,
that young people gave,
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that the project became a research project
and it took over my life.
and it took over my life.
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For three years, I listened
to over 600 women, men and children,
to over 600 women, men and children,
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educated, middle class,
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and it led to 1,800 hours of listening
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and 8,000 pages of notes,
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and it took another year
to make sense of it.
to make sense of it.
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Nowadays, we see well-dressed, educated
women like many of you in this room,
women like many of you in this room,
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all of you in this room, and myself,
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and we think the world has changed,
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but these external changes
are extremely misleading,
are extremely misleading,
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because on the inside,
we have not changed.
we have not changed.
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So today, I'm not going
to talk about poor people.
to talk about poor people.
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I'm going to talk only about
the middle and upper classes,
the middle and upper classes,
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because we are the ones most in denial.
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We are the ones who have said
over and over again
over and over again
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that when women are educated,
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when they're employed
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and they earn incomes,
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they will be equal, empowered and free.
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They're not.
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Why?
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From my research, I identify seven habits
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that delete women,
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that make women disappear,
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but these habits persist
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because they're so familiar to us
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and we've made them good and moral.
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Why would you change or drop
anything that's good and moral?
anything that's good and moral?
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So, on the one hand, we love our children,
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we love our daughters,
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and on the other hand, we crush them.
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Habit one: You don't have a body.
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The first step to make a girl a ghost
is to make her body disappear,
is to make her body disappear,
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to pretend that she doesn't have a body.
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Akangsha, who is 23, said,
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"In my family, we never
spoke about the body, never."
spoke about the body, never."
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And it is in this silence
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that millions and millions of girls
get sexually molested,
get sexually molested,
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and they don't even tell their mothers.
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And it's the negative comments from others
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that leads to 90 percent of women
saying that they dislike their bodies.
saying that they dislike their bodies.
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When a girl rejects her body,
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she rejects her only house
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and invisibility and insecurity
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become her very shaky foundation.
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Habit two: Be quiet. Chup.
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If you're not supposed to exist
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and you don't have a body,
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how can you have a voice?
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So just about every woman said,
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"When I was little,
my mother used to scold me and say,
my mother used to scold me and say,
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'Don't speak, be quiet, be chup,
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speak softly, don't argue
and never answer back.
and never answer back.
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Jawab nahi Dena.'"
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I'm sure you've all heard that.
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And so girls become afraid,
and they withdraw.
and they withdraw.
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And they become quiet and they say,
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"Let it go. Jaane do.
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What's the point? Nobody listens."
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Educated women said
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that their number one problem
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was their inability to speak up,
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as if there was a foot on their throat
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ready to choke them.
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Silence slices off women.
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Habit three: Be a people pleaser.
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Please others.
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Everyone likes a nice woman
who always smiles,
who always smiles,
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who never says no, who is never angry,
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even when she's being exploited.
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Amisha, who is 18, said,
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"My father said,
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'If I don't see you smiling,
I don't feel good.'"
I don't feel good.'"
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So she smiles.
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So her father is teaching her,
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my happiness is more important
than your happiness.
than your happiness.
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And in this business of trying
to make everyone happy all the time,
to make everyone happy all the time,
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girls become afraid to make decisions.
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And when you ask them, they say,
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"Anything, whatever! Kuch bhi!
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Everything goes. Chalta hai."
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Darsha, who is 25,
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said with great pride,
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"I'm highly elastic.
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I become whatever others want me to be."
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Such girls give up their dreams,
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their desires,
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and nobody even notices,
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except for depression.
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It moves in.
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Another slice of a girl is taken off.
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Habit four: You have no sexuality.
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I think you'd all agree that
with a population of over 1.3 billion,
with a population of over 1.3 billion,
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sex is not new to India.
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What is new is that
more people now acknowledge
more people now acknowledge
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that women, too,
have a right to sexual desire.
have a right to sexual desire.
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But how can a woman who has not
been allowed to own her body,
been allowed to own her body,
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who hasn't been educated about her body,
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who may have been sexually molested,
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who cannot say no
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and who has been filled with shame,
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how can she claim her sexual desire?
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A woman's sexuality is suppressed.
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Habit five: Don't trust women.
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Imagine how the world would change
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if women came together in solidarity,
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but as to make sure
that this doesn't happen,
that this doesn't happen,
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our culture places high moral value
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on loyalty to men and family secrecy.
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Woman after woman said,
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"I know only one trustworthy woman,
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and that's me."
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Even Ruchi, who is 30
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and who works on women's empowerment
at Delhi University, said,
at Delhi University, said,
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"I don't trust women.
They're jealous and they backbite."
They're jealous and they backbite."
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Obviously, then, in cities,
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women don't join women's groups,
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and when you ask them why, they say,
"We don't have time for gossip."
"We don't have time for gossip."
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It's much easier
to demolish a woman who is alone.
to demolish a woman who is alone.
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Habit six: Duty over desire.
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Muskan gave a very long definition
of a good girl, and she's only 15.
of a good girl, and she's only 15.
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"She is kind, gentle, polite, loving,
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caring, truthful, obedient,
respects elders,
respects elders,
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helps everyone unconditionally,
and is good to others and fulfills duty."
and is good to others and fulfills duty."
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Tiring, isn't it.
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By the time you fulfill duty,
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whatever little desire
is left is also lost.
is left is also lost.
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And when sacrificing mothers
have nothing left to say
have nothing left to say
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except talk about food --
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"Have you eaten? Khana kha liya?
What will you eat?" --
What will you eat?" --
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men like Saurabh, who is 24,
call them "boring."
call them "boring."
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A woman becomes a residue.
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Habit seven: Be totally dependent.
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So all these habits
collectively crush women,
collectively crush women,
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fill her with fear
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and make her totally dependent
on men for her survival,
on men for her survival,
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and this allows the system
of male power to continue.
of male power to continue.
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So all these seven habits
that we thought were good and moral
that we thought were good and moral
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snatch life away from girls
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and position men to abuse.
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We must change.
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How do we change?
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A habit is just a habit.
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Every habit is a learned habit,
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so we can unlearn them
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and this personal change
is extremely important.
is extremely important.
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I had to change too.
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But this doesn't change the system
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that crushes millions of other women.
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So we have to go to the roots.
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We must change what it means
to be a good woman and a good man,
to be a good woman and a good man,
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because this a foundation
of every society.
of every society.
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We don't need elastic women,
we need elastic definitions,
we need elastic definitions,
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for men too,
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and this big societal change
cannot happen without men's involvement.
cannot happen without men's involvement.
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We need you.
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We need men to become champions of change,
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to develop strong change muscles.
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Otherwise, it will be two more centuries
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before our girls, and our boys,
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are safe and free.
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Imagine half a billion women
coming together, with the support of men,
coming together, with the support of men,
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to talk to one another
for conversation, for change,
for conversation, for change,
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both personal and political,
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and imagine men in their own circles,
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and imagine women and men coming together
to just listen to each other
to just listen to each other
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without judgment, without blame,
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without accusations and without shame.
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Imagine how much we would change.
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We can do this together.
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Women, don't adjust.
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Men, adjust.
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It's time.
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Thank you.
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(Applause)
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SRK: How well said, how wonderful.
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Everyone, Deepa, please.
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Listening to her, I realized
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that even in the simplest conversations
that we have with women,
that we have with women,
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we're actually being aggressive.
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For example, I do tell
my daughter sometimes,
my daughter sometimes,
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"Yaar Tu hasti hai to mujhe
accha lagta hai varna bura lagta hai".
accha lagta hai varna bura lagta hai".
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So sorry, I would never do that.
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Aaj Se main meri beti ko yahi bolunga.
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Whatever you're doing,
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mujhe accha hi lagta hai,
aur accha nahi bhi lagta hai
aur accha nahi bhi lagta hai
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Toh mera kya, tum wohi karo jo
tumhare ko lagta hai, right?
tumhare ko lagta hai, right?
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(Applause)
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How did you feel,
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first listening to so many
unfulfilled stories, desires,
unfulfilled stories, desires,
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lack of independence,
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of girls that you normally would assume
we think these girls are better off?
we think these girls are better off?
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DN: Very depressed.
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It was shocking for me,
and that's why I couldn't stop,
and that's why I couldn't stop,
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because I had no plans to do a study
and no plans to write a book.
and no plans to write a book.
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I'd written 17 books before,
and I thought, "I'm done,"
and I thought, "I'm done,"
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but when I went to St. Stephen's College
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and I heard, at most elite colleges
you well know from Delhi,
you well know from Delhi,
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and the young women and the men,
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what they said about what it meant
to them to be a woman and man
to them to be a woman and man
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sounded not like me
but like my mother's generation.
but like my mother's generation.
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So then I went to another college
and another college.
and another college.
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The thing that was striking to me
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is that each woman felt she was alone,
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that she hides her fear
and hides her behavior,
and hides her behavior,
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because she thinks it's a personal fault.
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It's not a personal fault, it's training,
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and I think that's the biggest revelation
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is that, if we stop pretending,
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then the world changes.
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SRK: Do you girls all agree
with what Deepa is saying?
with what Deepa is saying?
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(Applause)
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Already see that young girl saying,
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"Heard, heard what she said?
You say this to me."
You say this to me."
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Yeah, that's the way it should be.
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You, boy, you adjust.
We are not adjusting anymore, OK?
We are not adjusting anymore, OK?
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(Applause)
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Thank you so much.
Have a good evening. Thank you.
Have a good evening. Thank you.
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Deepa Narayan - Social psychologistDeepa Narayan is an international advisor on poverty, gender and development with more than 25 years of experience working at the World Bank, the UN and NGOs.
Why you should listen
Deepa Narayan is a social scientist and author of Chup: Breaking the Silence About India’s Women. Until 2008, she served as Senior Advisor in the vice president's office of the Poverty Reduction Group of the World Bank.
While at the World Bank, Narayan advanced program development and evaluation and conducted two studies that resulted in key policy changes: "The Voices of the Poor," which examined the experiences of 60,000 women and men from 60 countries around the world; and "Moving Out of Poverty: Understanding Freedom, Democracy and Growth from the Bottom Up," which studied people from 15 countries to understand how some people climb out of poverty while others remain stuck. Both studies highlight how policy mindsets and unexamined assumptions about impoverished people distort policy decisions.
Narayan's current interests include shared and sustainable living, reducing inequality, making corporate social responsibility a reality, ethical development and economic policies that create wealth for poor people. She holds a PhD in psychology and anthropology and has authored or coauthored more than 15 books.
Deepa Narayan | Speaker | TED.com