TED2005
James Watson: How we discovered DNA
James Watson o tome kako je otkrio DNK
Filmed:
Readability: 3.9
1,901,584 views
Nobelovac James Watson otvara TED2005 otvorenom i zabavnom pričom o tome kako su on i njegov partner u istraživanju, Francis Crick, otkrili strukturu DNK.
James Watson - Biologist, Nobel laureate
Nobel laureate James Watson took part in one of the most important scientific breakthroughs of the 20th century: the discovery of the structure of DNA. More than 50 years later, he continues to investigate biology's deepest secrets. Full bio
Nobel laureate James Watson took part in one of the most important scientific breakthroughs of the 20th century: the discovery of the structure of DNA. More than 50 years later, he continues to investigate biology's deepest secrets. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:25
Well, I thought there would be a podium, so I'm a bit scared.
0
0
3000
Dobro, mislio sam da će ovdje biti podij pa sam malo prestravljen.
00:28
(Laughter)
1
3000
3000
(Smijeh)
00:31
Chris asked me to tell again how we found the structure of DNA.
2
6000
3000
Chris me zamolio da ponovno ispričam kako smo otkrili strukturu DNK.
00:34
And since, you know, I follow his orders, I'll do it.
3
9000
3000
I s obzirom da ja, kao što znate, slijedim njegova naređenja, to ću i učiniti.
00:37
But it slightly bores me.
4
12000
2000
Ali to mi je malo dosadno.
00:39
(Laughter)
5
14000
2000
(Smijeh)
00:41
And, you know, I wrote a book. So I'll say something --
6
16000
5000
I, kao što znate, napisao sam knjigu. Pa ću reći nešto—
00:46
(Laughter)
7
21000
2000
(Smijeh)
00:48
-- I'll say a little about, you know, how the discovery was made,
8
23000
3000
– reći ću malo o, znate, tome kako se dogodilo otkriće
00:51
and why Francis and I found it.
9
26000
2000
te zašto smo Francis i ja to otkrili.
00:53
And then, I hope maybe I have at least five minutes to say
10
28000
4000
I onda, možda ću imati barem pet minuta da kažem
00:57
what makes me tick now.
11
32000
4000
što me sada zaokuplja.
01:01
In back of me is a picture of me when I was 17.
12
36000
5000
Iza mene je moja fotografija kad sam imao 17 godina.
01:06
I was at the University of Chicago, in my third year,
13
41000
3000
Bio sam na Sveučilištu Chicago, na trećoj godini
01:09
and I was in my third year because the University of Chicago
14
44000
6000
zato što vam Sveučilište Chicago
01:15
let you in after two years of high school.
15
50000
2000
dozvoljava upis nakon dvije godine srednje škole.
01:17
So you -- it was fun to get away from high school -- (Laughter) --
16
52000
6000
Dakle – bilo je zabavno pobjeći iz srednje škole.
01:23
because I was very small, and I was no good in sports,
17
58000
3000
Zato što sam bio jako malen i nisu mi išli sportovi
01:26
or anything like that.
18
61000
1000
ili bilo što poput toga.
01:27
But I should say that my background -- my father was, you know,
19
62000
6000
No moram reći da je moj odgoj – znate, moj otac je
01:33
raised to be an Episcopalian and Republican,
20
68000
2000
bio odgojen kao episkopejac i republikanac.
01:35
but after one year of college, he became an atheist and a Democrat.
21
70000
5000
No nakon prve godine fakulteta postao je ateist i demokrat.
01:40
(Laughter)
22
75000
3000
(Smijeh)
01:43
And my mother was Irish Catholic,
23
78000
2000
A moja majka bila je irska katolkinja,
01:45
and -- but she didn't take religion too seriously.
24
80000
5000
no - nije uzimala religiju previše ozbiljno.
01:50
And by the age of 11, I was no longer going to Sunday Mass,
25
85000
4000
I tako nakon 11-te godine, više nisam pohađao nedjeljnu misu
01:54
and going on birdwatching walks with my father.
26
89000
4000
niti išao promatrati ptice sa svojim ocem.
01:58
So early on, I heard of Charles Darwin.
27
93000
4000
Vrlo rano čuo sam za Charlesa Darwina.
02:02
I guess, you know, he was the big hero.
28
97000
3000
Pretpostavljam da znate, on je bio veliki heroj.
02:05
And, you know, you understand life as it now exists through evolution.
29
100000
6000
I, kao što znate, današnje shvaćanje života podrazumijeva evoluciju.
02:11
And at the University of Chicago I was a zoology major,
30
106000
4000
A na Sveučilištu Chicago moj glavni predmet bila je biologija.
02:15
and thought I would end up, you know, if I was bright enough,
31
110000
3000
I mislio sam da ću završiti, znate, ako budem dovoljno bistar,
02:18
maybe getting a Ph.D. from Cornell in ornithology.
32
113000
5000
sa doktoratom iz ornitologije na Cornell-u.
02:23
Then, in the Chicago paper, there was a review of a book
33
118000
6000
Tada je u čikaškim novinama izašao osvrt na knjigu
02:29
called "What is Life?" by the great physicist, Schrodinger.
34
124000
4000
„Što je život?“ slavnog fizičara Schrodingera.
02:33
And that, of course, had been a question I wanted to know.
35
128000
3000
I to je, naravno, bilo pitanje na koje sam htio znati odgovor.
02:36
You know, Darwin explained life after it got started,
36
131000
3000
Kao što znate, Darwin je objasnio život nakon što je on već započeo,
02:39
but what was the essence of life?
37
134000
2000
ali što je osnova života?
02:41
And Schrodinger said the essence was information
38
136000
4000
A Schrodinger je rekao da je osnova informacija
02:45
present in our chromosomes, and it had to be present
39
140000
4000
sadržana u našim kromosomima, te da mora biti sadržana
02:49
on a molecule. I'd never really thought of molecules before.
40
144000
6000
u molekulama. Nikad prije nisam pomišljao na molekule.
02:55
You know chromosomes, but this was a molecule,
41
150000
4000
Znate kromosomi su ustvari molekule,
02:59
and somehow all the information was probably present
42
154000
3000
a informacija je vjerojatno bila prisutna
03:02
in some digital form. And there was the big question
43
157000
4000
u digitalnom obliku. I veliko je pitanje bilo,
03:06
of, how did you copy the information?
44
161000
2000
kako kopirate tu informaciju?
03:08
So that was the book. And so, from that moment on,
45
163000
5000
To je bila knjiga. I tako sam od tog trenutka
03:13
I wanted to be a geneticist --
46
168000
5000
htio biti genetičar –
03:18
understand the gene and, through that, understand life.
47
173000
2000
razumjeti gene i kroz njih razumjeti život.
03:20
So I had, you know, a hero at a distance.
48
175000
5000
Tako sam, znate, imao svog heroja na distanci.
03:25
It wasn't a baseball player; it was Linus Pauling.
49
180000
2000
To nije bio igrač bejzbola, to je bio Linus Pauling.
03:27
And so I applied to Caltech and they turned me down.
50
182000
6000
I tako sam predao molbu na Caltech, a oni su me odbili.
03:33
(Laughter)
51
188000
2000
(Smijeh)
03:35
So I went to Indiana,
52
190000
1000
Onda sam otišao na Indianu
03:36
which was actually as good as Caltech in genetics,
53
191000
3000
koja je bila jednako dobra kao i Caltech u genetici,
03:39
and besides, they had a really good basketball team. (Laughter)
54
194000
4000
a osim toga imali su i stvarno dobru košarkašku momčad.
03:43
So I had a really quite happy life at Indiana.
55
198000
3000
Imao sam stvarno sretan život u Indiani.
03:46
And it was at Indiana I got the impression
56
201000
3000
I upravo sam u Indiani dobio utisak
03:49
that, you know, the gene was likely to be DNA.
57
204000
2000
da bi, znate, geni mogli biti DNK.
03:51
And so when I got my Ph.D., I should go and search for DNA.
58
206000
4000
I zato sam, kad sam obranio doktorat, otišao u potragu za DNK.
03:55
So I first went to Copenhagen because I thought, well,
59
210000
6000
Tako sam prvo otišao u Copenhagen zato što sam mislio, dobro,
04:01
maybe I could become a biochemist,
60
216000
1000
možda bih mogao postati biokemičar.
04:02
but I discovered biochemistry was very boring.
61
217000
3000
No otkrio sam da je biokemija jako dosadna.
04:05
It wasn't going anywhere toward, you know, saying what the gene was;
62
220000
4000
Nije išla prema ničemu, znate, onome što su geni.
04:09
it was just nuclear science. And oh, that's the book, little book.
63
224000
4000
Bila je samo znanost o jezgri. I onda, tu je bila knjiga, mala knjiga.
04:13
You can read it in about two hours.
64
228000
2000
Možete ju pročitati za oko dva sata.
04:15
And -- but then I went to a meeting in Italy.
65
230000
4000
I - tada sam otišao na skup u Italiji.
04:19
And there was an unexpected speaker who wasn't on the program,
66
234000
5000
A tamo je bio neočekivani predavač, kojega nije bilo u programu,
04:24
and he talked about DNA.
67
239000
2000
a on je govorio o DNK.
04:26
And this was Maurice Wilkins. He was trained as a physicist,
68
241000
3000
Bio je to Maurice Wilkins. On je bio školovani fizičar,
04:29
and after the war he wanted to do biophysics, and he picked DNA
69
244000
4000
a nakon rata htio se baviti biofizikom i odabrao je DNK
04:33
because DNA had been determined at the Rockefeller Institute
70
248000
3000
jer je DNK bila utvrđena na Institutu Rockefeller
04:36
to possibly be the genetic molecules on the chromosomes.
71
251000
4000
kao moguća molekula genetičkog materijala u kromosomima.
04:40
Most people believed it was proteins.
72
255000
1000
Većina ljudi vjerovala je da su to bili proteini.
04:41
But Wilkins, you know, thought DNA was the best bet,
73
256000
4000
No Wilkins je, znate, mislio da je to najvjerojatnije DNK
04:45
and he showed this x-ray photograph.
74
260000
4000
i pokazao je tu fotografiju X-zrakama.
04:49
Sort of crystalline. So DNA had a structure,
75
264000
4000
Neka vrsta kristala. Dakle taj je DNK imao strukturu,
04:53
even though it owed it to probably different molecules
76
268000
3000
premda se radilo vjerojatno o različitim molekulama
04:56
carrying different sets of instructions.
77
271000
2000
koje su nosile različite setove uputa.
04:58
So there was something universal about the DNA molecule.
78
273000
2000
I tako je bilo nešto univerzalno u DNK molekulama.
05:00
So I wanted to work with him, but he didn't want a former birdwatcher,
79
275000
5000
I zato sam želio raditi s njim, ali on nije htio bivšeg promatrača ptica
05:05
and I ended up in Cambridge, England.
80
280000
1000
pa sam završio na Cambridge-u u Engleskoj.
05:06
So I went to Cambridge,
81
281000
2000
Dakle, otišao sam na Cambridge
05:08
because it was really the best place in the world then
82
283000
3000
zato što je to tada bilo stvarno najbolje mjesto na svijetu
05:11
for x-ray crystallography. And x-ray crystallography is now a subject
83
286000
4000
za kristalografiju x-zrakama. A kristalografija x-zrakama sada je predmet,
05:15
in, you know, chemistry departments.
84
290000
2000
kao što znate, odjela za kemiju.
05:17
I mean, in those days it was the domain of the physicists.
85
292000
3000
Mislim, u to vrijeme, bila je domena fizičara.
05:20
So the best place for x-ray crystallography
86
295000
4000
Zato je najbolje mjesto za kristalografiju x-zrakama
05:24
was at the Cavendish Laboratory at Cambridge.
87
299000
3000
bio Cavendish-ov laboratorij na Cambridge-u.
05:27
And there I met Francis Crick.
88
302000
6000
I tamo sam upoznao Francisa Cricka.
05:33
I went there without knowing him. He was 35. I was 23.
89
308000
3000
Otišao sam tamo, a da ga prije nisam poznavao. Bilo mu je 35, meni 23.
05:36
And within a day, we had decided that
90
311000
5000
I u samo jednom danu, odlučili smo da bismo
05:41
maybe we could take a shortcut to finding the structure of DNA.
91
316000
5000
možda trebali prečicom pronaći strukturu DNK.
05:46
Not solve it like, you know, in rigorous fashion, but build a model,
92
321000
6000
Ne riješiti ju, znate, u onom krutom značenju, već izgraditi model.
05:52
an electro-model, using some coordinates of, you know,
93
327000
4000
Jedan atomski model koristeći se nekim koordinatama, znate,
05:56
length, all that sort of stuff from x-ray photographs.
94
331000
3000
duljinama i tom vrstom podataka iz fotografija x-zrakama.
05:59
But just ask what the molecule -- how should it fold up?
95
334000
3000
Samo se pitati što je ta molekula - kako bi trebala izgledati?
06:02
And the reason for doing so, at the center of this photograph,
96
337000
4000
A razlog da to napravimo, u središtu ove fotografije,
06:06
is Linus Pauling. About six months before, he proposed
97
341000
3000
je Linus Pauling. Otprilike šest mjeseci prije, on je predložio
06:09
the alpha helical structure for proteins. And in doing so,
98
344000
4000
strukturu alfa uzvojnice za proteine. I radeći to,
06:13
he banished the man out on the right,
99
348000
2000
on je isključio čovjeka sa desne strane,
06:15
Sir Lawrence Bragg, who was the Cavendish professor.
100
350000
3000
Sir Lawrencea Bragga, koji je bio Cavendishov profesor.
06:18
This is a photograph several years later,
101
353000
2000
Ovo je fotografija nekoliko godina kasnije,
06:20
when Bragg had cause to smile.
102
355000
2000
kad je Bragg dobio razlog da se nasmije.
06:22
He certainly wasn't smiling when I got there,
103
357000
2000
On se svakako nije smijao kad sam ja došao tamo,
06:24
because he was somewhat humiliated by Pauling getting the alpha helix,
104
359000
4000
zato što je bio donekle ponižen Paulingovom alfa uzvojnicom,
06:28
and the Cambridge people failing because they weren't chemists.
105
363000
4000
a ljudi sa Cambridgea su podbacili jer nisu bili kemičari.
06:32
And certainly, neither Crick or I were chemists,
106
367000
5000
I svakako, niti Crick niti ja nismo bili kemičari
06:37
so we tried to build a model. And he knew, Francis knew Wilkins.
107
372000
6000
te smo samo pokušali izraditi model. A on je znao, Francis je poznavao Wilkinsa.
06:43
So Wilkins said he thought it was the helix.
108
378000
2000
Tako je Wilkins rekao kako on misli da je uzvojnica.
06:45
X-ray diagram, he thought was comparable with the helix.
109
380000
3000
Prikaz x-zrakama, on je mislio, usporediv je sa uzvojnicom.
06:48
So we built a three-stranded model.
110
383000
2000
Tako smo izgradili model od tri niti.
06:50
The people from London came up.
111
385000
2000
Došli su nam ljudi iz Londona.
06:52
Wilkins and this collaborator, or possible collaborator,
112
387000
5000
Wilkins i njegova suradnica, ili moguća suradnica,
06:57
Rosalind Franklin, came up and sort of laughed at our model.
113
392000
3000
Rosalind Franklin, došli su i na neki način ismijali naš model.
07:00
They said it was lousy, and it was.
114
395000
2000
Rekli su da je loš, a i bio je.
07:02
So we were told to build no more models; we were incompetent.
115
397000
5000
Rekli su nam da više ne izrađujemo modele; da smo nesposobni.
07:07
(Laughter)
116
402000
4000
(Smijeh).
07:11
And so we didn't build any models,
117
406000
2000
I tako mi nismo izgradili više modela,
07:13
and Francis sort of continued to work on proteins.
118
408000
3000
a Francis se na neki način vratio poslu na proteinima.
07:16
And basically, I did nothing. And -- except read.
119
411000
6000
U osnovi, ja nisam radio ništa. Osim što sam čitao.
07:22
You know, basically, reading is a good thing; you get facts.
120
417000
3000
Kao što znate, čitanje je dobra stvar; dođete do činjenica.
07:25
And we kept telling the people in London
121
420000
3000
I nastavili smo govoriti ljudima u Londonu
07:28
that Linus Pauling's going to move on to DNA.
122
423000
2000
kako će Linus Pauling prijeći na DNK.
07:30
If DNA is that important, Linus will know it.
123
425000
2000
Ako je DNK toliko važna, Linus bi znao.
07:32
He'll build a model, and then we're going to be scooped.
124
427000
2000
On će izraditi model i onda ćemo mi opet biti pometeni.
07:34
And, in fact, he'd written the people in London:
125
429000
2000
A, u stvari, on je pisao ljudima u Londonu:
07:36
Could he see their x-ray photograph?
126
431000
3000
Može li vidjeti njihove fotografije x-zrakama?
07:39
And they had the wisdom to say "no." So he didn't have it.
127
434000
3000
A oni su bili dovoljno mudri da odgovore "ne." I tako ih on nije vidio.
07:42
But there was ones in the literature.
128
437000
2000
Ali bilo ih je u literaturi.
07:44
Actually, Linus didn't look at them that carefully.
129
439000
2000
Ustvari, Linus ih nije dovoljno pažljivo pogledao.
07:46
But about, oh, 15 months after I got to Cambridge,
130
441000
6000
A onda, otprilike 15 mjeseci nakon što sam došao na Cambridge,
07:52
a rumor began to appear from Linus Pauling's son,
131
447000
3000
počele su se širiti glasine od sina Linus Paulinga,
07:55
who was in Cambridge, that his father was now working on DNA.
132
450000
4000
koji je bio na Cambridge-u, koji je govorio da njegov otac sad radi na DNK.
07:59
And so, one day Peter came in and he said he was Peter Pauling,
133
454000
4000
I tako, jednog je dana Peter navratio i rekao kako je on Peter Pauling
08:03
and he gave me a copy of his father's manuscripts.
134
458000
2000
i dao mi je kopiju očevih rukopisa.
08:05
And boy, I was scared because I thought, you know, we may be scooped.
135
460000
6000
I čovječe, al sam bio preplašen jer sam mislio, znate, opet bismo mogli biti pometeni.
08:11
I have nothing to do, no qualifications for anything.
136
466000
3000
A ja nisam imao ništa za raditi, ni predispozicije za bilo što.
08:14
(Laughter)
137
469000
2000
(Smijeh)
08:16
And so there was the paper, and he proposed a three-stranded structure.
138
471000
6000
I tako bio je taj članak u kojem je on pretpostavio strukturu od tri niti.
08:22
And I read it, and it was just -- it was crap.
139
477000
2000
I ja sam pročitao, i to je bila – obična besmislica.
08:24
(Laughter)
140
479000
5000
(Smijeh)
08:29
So this was, you know, unexpected from the world's --
141
484000
3000
To je to bilo neočekivano od svjetski –
08:32
(Laughter)
142
487000
2000
(Smijeh)
08:34
-- and so, it was held together by hydrogen bonds
143
489000
3000
– držalo se skupa vodikovim vezama
08:37
between phosphate groups.
144
492000
2000
između fosfatnih skupina.
08:39
Well, if the peak pH that cells have is around seven,
145
494000
4000
Dakle, ako je maksimalni pH u stanici oko sedam,
08:43
those hydrogen bonds couldn't exist.
146
498000
3000
te vodikove veze ne mogu postojati.
08:46
We rushed over to the chemistry department and said,
147
501000
2000
Požurili smo na zavod za kemiju i pitali,
08:48
"Could Pauling be right?" And Alex Hust said, "No." So we were happy.
148
503000
6000
„Može li Pauling biti u pravu?“ A Alex Hust je odgovorio, „Ne.“ I mi smo bili sretni.
08:54
(Laughter)
149
509000
2000
(Smijeh)
08:56
And, you know, we were still in the game, but we were frightened
150
511000
3000
I kao što znate, još smo bili u igri, ali nas je plašilo
08:59
that somebody at Caltech would tell Linus that he was wrong.
151
514000
4000
da će netko sa Caltech-a Linusu reći da nije u pravu.
09:03
And so Bragg said, "Build models."
152
518000
2000
A onda je Bragg rekao, „Izgradite modele.“
09:05
And a month after we got the Pauling manuscript --
153
520000
4000
I samo mjesec dana nakon što smo vidjeli Paulingov rukopis –
09:09
I should say I took the manuscript to London, and showed the people.
154
524000
5000
trebao bih reći da sam odnio rukopis u London i pokazao ga ljudima.
09:14
Well, I said, Linus was wrong and that we're still in the game
155
529000
3000
Dakle, rekao sam kako Linus nije bio u pravu i da smo mi još uvijek u igri
09:17
and that they should immediately start building models.
156
532000
2000
i da smjesta moraju početi raditi modele.
09:19
But Wilkins said "no." Rosalind Franklin was leaving in about two months,
157
534000
5000
No Wilkins je rekao ne, Rosalind Frenklin je odlazila za dva mjeseca
09:24
and after she left he would start building models.
158
539000
3000
i nakon što ona ode on će početi graditi modele.
09:27
And so I came back with that news to Cambridge,
159
542000
4000
I tako sam ja došao natrag u Cambridge s tom vijesti,
09:31
and Bragg said, "Build models."
160
546000
1000
a Bragg je rekao, „Izgradite modele.“
09:32
Well, of course, I wanted to build models.
161
547000
1000
Dakle, naravno, ja sam htio napraviti modele.
09:33
And there's a picture of Rosalind. She really, you know,
162
548000
6000
A evo slike Rosalind. Ona je stvarno, znate,
09:39
in one sense she was a chemist,
163
554000
2000
na neki način bila kemičarka,
09:41
but really she would have been trained --
164
556000
2000
ali trebala je biti poučena -
09:43
she didn't know any organic chemistry or quantum chemistry.
165
558000
3000
nije znala ništa organske kemije ili kvantne kemije.
09:46
She was a crystallographer.
166
561000
1000
Ona je bila kristalograf.
09:47
And I think part of the reason she didn't want to build models
167
562000
5000
Mislim da je dio razloga što nije htjela praviti modele
09:52
was, she wasn't a chemist, whereas Pauling was a chemist.
168
567000
3000
bio taj što ona nije bila kemičar, a Pauling jest.
09:55
And so Crick and I, you know, started building models,
169
570000
5000
Tako smo Crick i ja, znate, počeli praviti modele
10:00
and I'd learned a little chemistry, but not enough.
170
575000
3000
i ja sam naučio malo kemije, ali ne dovoljno.
10:03
Well, we got the answer on the 28th February '53.
171
578000
4000
Dobili smo odgovor 28. veljače 1953.
10:07
And it was because of a rule, which, to me, is a very good rule:
172
582000
4000
I to zbog pravila, koje je za mene jako dobro pravilo:
10:11
Never be the brightest person in a room, and we weren't.
173
586000
6000
Nikad nemoj biti najpametnija osoba u prostoriji, a mi to nismo bili.
10:17
We weren't the best chemists in the room.
174
592000
2000
Nismo bili najbolji kemičari u prostoriji.
10:19
I went in and showed them a pairing I'd done,
175
594000
2000
Ušao sam i pokazao sparivanje koje sam napravio
10:21
and Jerry Donohue -- he was a chemist -- he said, it's wrong.
176
596000
4000
i Jerry Donohue - koji je bio kemičar - rekao mi je da je to krivo.
10:25
You've got -- the hydrogen atoms are in the wrong place.
177
600000
3000
Imaš - atome vodika na krivim mjestima.
10:28
I just put them down like they were in the books.
178
603000
3000
Stavio sam ih kako su stajali u knjigama.
10:31
He said they were wrong.
179
606000
1000
Rekao je da je krivo.
10:32
So the next day, you know, after I thought, "Well, he might be right."
180
607000
4000
Sljedeći dan, znate, nakon što sam pomislio, „Mogao bi biti u pravu.“
10:36
So I changed the locations, and then we found the base pairing,
181
611000
4000
Promijenio sam mjesta i onda smo otkrili sparivanje baza
10:40
and Francis immediately said the chains run in absolute directions.
182
615000
3000
i Francis je odmah rekao da lanci idu u suprotnim smjerovima.
10:43
And we knew we were right.
183
618000
2000
I znali smo da smo u pravu.
10:45
So it was a pretty, you know, it all happened in about two hours.
184
620000
7000
Bilo je to prilično, znate, sve se dogodilo u otprilike dva sata.
10:52
From nothing to thing.
185
627000
4000
Od ničega do nečega.
10:56
And we knew it was big because, you know, if you just put A next to T
186
631000
5000
I znali smo da je veliko jer, znate, ako samo stavite A do T
11:01
and G next to C, you have a copying mechanism.
187
636000
3000
i G do C, imate mehanizam kopiranja.
11:04
So we saw how genetic information is carried.
188
639000
4000
Vidjeli smo kako se genetska informacija prenosi.
11:08
It's the order of the four bases.
189
643000
1000
To je redoslijed četiriju baza.
11:09
So in a sense, it is a sort of digital-type information.
190
644000
4000
To je, na jedan način, digitalan oblik informacija.
11:13
And you copy it by going from strand-separating.
191
648000
5000
Kopirate ih krenuvši od razdvajanja lanaca.
11:18
So, you know, if it didn't work this way, you might as well believe it,
192
653000
8000
Tako da, znate, ako nije radilo na ovaj način, mogli biste i vjerovati u to
11:26
because you didn't have any other scheme.
193
661000
1000
jer niste imali ni jedan drugi model.
11:27
(Laughter)
194
662000
3000
(Smijeh)
11:30
But that's not the way most scientists think.
195
665000
3000
Ali to nije način na koji većina znanstvenika razmišlja.
11:33
Most scientists are really rather dull.
196
668000
3000
Većina znanstvenika je prilično dosadna.
11:36
They said, we won't think about it until we know it's right.
197
671000
2000
Rekli su, nećemo razmišljati o tome dok ne znamo da je to točno.
11:38
But, you know, we thought, well, it's at least 95 percent right or 99 percent right.
198
673000
6000
Ali, znate, mislili smo, pa, to je barem 95 posto točno ili 99 posto točno.
11:44
So think about it. The next five years,
199
679000
4000
Zato razmislite o tome. Sljedećih pet godina,
11:48
there were essentially something like five references
200
683000
2000
imali smo praktički pet referenci
11:50
to our work in "Nature" -- none.
201
685000
2000
na naš rad u Nature-u - to je ništa.
11:53
And so we were left by ourselves,
202
688000
2000
Bili smo ostavljeni sami sebi
11:55
and trying to do the last part of the trio: how do you --
203
690000
5000
i pokušavali smo otkriti zadnji dio trojca: kako -
12:00
what does this genetic information do?
204
695000
4000
što ta genetska informacija radi?
12:04
It was pretty obvious that it provided the information
205
699000
4000
Bilo je prilično jasno da daje informaciju
12:08
to an RNA molecule, and then how do you go from RNA to protein?
206
703000
3000
za RNK molekulu, a kako dođeš od RNK do proteina?
12:11
For about three years we just -- I tried to solve the structure of RNA.
207
706000
5000
Otprilike tri godine smo samo - pokušao sam riješiti strukturu RNK.
12:16
It didn't yield. It didn't give good x-ray photographs.
208
711000
3000
Nije išlo. Nije davala dobre rengenske slike.
12:19
I was decidedly unhappy; a girl didn't marry me.
209
714000
3000
Bio sam izrazito nesretan; djevojka se nije udala za mene.
12:22
It was really, you know, sort of a shitty time.
210
717000
3000
Bilo je to, znate, priično loše razdoblje.
12:25
(Laughter)
211
720000
3000
(Smijeh)
12:28
So there's a picture of Francis and I before I met the girl,
212
723000
4000
Evo slike Francisa i mene prije nego što sam upoznao tu djevojku
12:32
so I'm still looking happy.
213
727000
1000
pa još uvijek izgledam sretno.
12:33
(Laughter)
214
728000
3000
(Smijeh)
12:36
But there is what we did when we didn't know
215
731000
3000
Evo što smo radili kad nismo znali što
12:39
where to go forward: we formed a club and called it the RNA Tie Club.
216
734000
6000
raditi dalje: osnovali smo klub i zvali smo ga Klub RNK kravata.
12:45
George Gamow, also a great physicist, he designed the tie.
217
740000
4000
George Gamow, sjajan fizičar, dizajnirao je kravatu.
12:49
He was one of the members. The question was:
218
744000
3000
Bio je jedan od naših članova. Pitanje je bilo:
12:52
How do you go from a four-letter code
219
747000
2000
kako doći od četveroznamenkastog koda
12:54
to the 20-letter code of proteins?
220
749000
2000
do dvadeseteroznamenkastog koda proteina?
12:56
Feynman was a member, and Teller, and friends of Gamow.
221
751000
5000
Feynman je bio član i Teller i Gamowljevi prijatelji.
13:01
But that's the only -- no, we were only photographed twice.
222
756000
6000
Ali ovo je jedini - ne, samo su nas dvaput slikali.
13:07
And on both occasions, you know, one of us was missing the tie.
223
762000
3000
I oba puta netko od nas nije imao kravatu.
13:10
There's Francis up on the upper right,
224
765000
3000
Evo Francis gore desno
13:13
and Alex Rich -- the M.D.-turned-crystallographer -- is next to me.
225
768000
5000
i Alex Rich – liječnik koji je postao kristalograf – je kraj mene.
13:18
This was taken in Cambridge in September of 1955.
226
773000
4000
Ovo je slikano na Cambridgeu u rujnu 1955.
13:22
And I'm smiling, sort of forced, I think,
227
777000
6000
Smješkam se, pomalo nasilu, barem mislim,
13:28
because the girl I had, boy, she was gone.
228
783000
3000
jer je djevojka koju sam imao otišla.
13:31
(Laughter)
229
786000
4000
(Smijeh)
13:35
And so I didn't really get happy until 1960,
230
790000
5000
Tako da nisam baš bio sretan do 1960.,
13:40
because then we found out, basically, you know,
231
795000
4000
jer smo onda zapravo otkrili, znate,
13:44
that there are three forms of RNA.
232
799000
2000
da postoje tri oblika RNK.
13:46
And we knew, basically, DNA provides the information for RNA.
233
801000
3000
Znali smo, u biti, da DNK daje informaciju za RNK.
13:49
RNA provides the information for protein.
234
804000
2000
RNK daje informaciju za proteine.
13:51
And that let Marshall Nirenberg, you know, take RNA -- synthetic RNA --
235
806000
5000
I to je dovelo Marshalla Nirenberga, znate, da uzme RNK - sintetičku RNK -
13:56
put it in a system making protein. He made polyphenylalanine,
236
811000
6000
i stavi ju u sustav za stvaranje proteina. Stvorio je polifenilalanin,
14:02
polyphenylalanine. So that's the first cracking of the genetic code,
237
817000
8000
polifenilalanin. To je bilo prvo razbijanje genetskog koda.
14:10
and it was all over by 1966.
238
825000
2000
I završilo je 1966.
14:12
So there, that's what Chris wanted me to do, it was --
239
827000
3000
Eto, to je ono što je Chris htio da radim -
14:15
so what happened since then?
240
830000
4000
što se dogodilo otad?
14:19
Well, at that time -- I should go back.
241
834000
3000
Pa, u to vrijeme trebao bih se vratiti.
14:22
When we found the structure of DNA, I gave my first talk
242
837000
5000
Kad smo otkrili strukturu DNK, održao sam prvi govor
14:27
at Cold Spring Harbor. The physicist, Leo Szilard,
243
842000
3000
u Cold Springs Harboru. Fizičar, Leo Szilard
14:30
he looked at me and said, "Are you going to patent this?"
244
845000
3000
me pogledao i rekao, „Hoćeš li ovo patentirati?“
14:33
And -- but he knew patent law, and that we couldn't patent it,
245
848000
5000
A - znao je zakon o patentima, nismo to mogli patentirati
14:38
because you couldn't. No use for it.
246
853000
2000
jer nije bilo koristi od toga.
14:40
(Laughter)
247
855000
2000
(Smijeh)
14:42
And so DNA didn't become a useful molecule,
248
857000
4000
I tako DNK nije postala korisna melekula
14:46
and the lawyers didn't enter into the equation until 1973,
249
861000
5000
i odvjetnici ju nisu uzeli u računicu do 1973.
14:51
20 years later, when Boyer and Cohen in San Francisco
250
866000
5000
20 godina kasnije kad su Boyer i Cohen iz San Francisca
14:56
and Stanford came up with their method of recombinant DNA,
251
871000
2000
i Stanforda došli do metode rekombinantne DNK
14:58
and Stanford patented it and made a lot of money.
252
873000
3000
i Stanford ju je patentirao i zaradio mnogo novca.
15:01
At least they patented something
253
876000
1000
Barem su patentirali nešto što može,
15:02
which, you know, could do useful things.
254
877000
3000
znate, raditi korisne stvari.
15:05
And then, they learned how to read the letters for the code.
255
880000
3000
I onda, naučili su čitati slova koda.
15:08
And, boom, we've, you know, had a biotech industry. And,
256
883000
5000
I, bum, odjednom smo imali biotehnološku industriju. Ali,
15:13
but we were still a long ways from, you know,
257
888000
7000
bili smo još uvijek daleko
15:20
answering a question which sort of dominated my childhood,
258
895000
2000
od odgovora na pitanje koje je dominiralo mojim djetinjstvom,
15:22
which is: How do you nature-nurture?
259
897000
5000
a to je: Kako se priroda razvija?
15:27
And so I'll go on. I'm already out of time,
260
902000
4000
Nastavit ću. Već sam ostao bez vremena,
15:31
but this is Michael Wigler, a very, very clever mathematician
261
906000
3000
ali ovo je Michael Wigler, vrlo, vrlo pametan matematičar
15:34
turned physicist. And he developed a technique
262
909000
3000
koji je postao fizičar. Razvio je tehniku
15:37
which essentially will let us look at sample DNA
263
912000
4000
koja nam omogućava da pogledamo uzorak DNK
15:41
and, eventually, a million spots along it.
264
916000
2000
i milijun točaka po njoj.
15:43
There's a chip there, a conventional one. Then there's one
265
918000
3000
Evo ondje čip, jedan uobičajeni. Eno i jednog
15:46
made by a photolithography by a company in Madison
266
921000
3000
napravljenog fotolitografijom tvrtke Madison
15:49
called NimbleGen, which is way ahead of Affymetrix.
267
924000
5000
a zove se NimbleGen, koji je znatno napredniji od Affymetrixa.
15:54
And we use their technique.
268
929000
2000
Koristimo njihovu tehnologiju.
15:56
And what you can do is sort of compare DNA of normal segs versus cancer.
269
931000
5000
I ono što možemo raditi je uspoređivati normalne odsječke DNK i odsječke raka.
16:01
And you can see on the top
270
936000
4000
Možete vidjeti na vrhu da odsječci
16:05
that cancers which are bad show insertions or deletions.
271
940000
5000
raka koji su loši pokazuju ubacivanja i brisanja.
16:10
So the DNA is really badly mucked up,
272
945000
3000
Tako da je DNK prilično uništena,
16:13
whereas if you have a chance of surviving,
273
948000
2000
ali ako imate šansu za preživljavanje,
16:15
the DNA isn't so mucked up.
274
950000
2000
DNK i nije toliko uništena.
16:17
So we think that this will eventually lead to what we call
275
952000
3000
Mislimo da će nas ovo na kraju dovesti do nečega što zovemo
16:20
"DNA biopsies." Before you get treated for cancer,
276
955000
4000
"DNK biopsije." Prije nego što se počneš liječiti od raka,
16:24
you should really look at this technique,
277
959000
2000
trebao bi proučiti ovu metodu
16:26
and get a feeling of the face of the enemy.
278
961000
3000
i steći sliku o svom neprijatelju.
16:29
It's not a -- it's only a partial look, but it's a --
279
964000
3000
Nije to - to je samo djelomičan pogled, ali je -
16:32
I think it's going to be very, very useful.
280
967000
3000
mislim da će biti jako korisno.
16:35
So, we started with breast cancer
281
970000
2000
Počeli smo s rakom dojke
16:37
because there's lots of money for it, no government money.
282
972000
3000
jer ima mnogo novca za njega, bez vladinog novca.
16:40
And now I have a sort of vested interest:
283
975000
4000
Sad imam osobni interes:
16:44
I want to do it for prostate cancer. So, you know,
284
979000
2000
želim to napraviti za rak prostate. Tako vas
16:46
you aren't treated if it's not dangerous.
285
981000
3000
neće liječiti ako nije opasno.
16:49
But Wigler, besides looking at cancer cells, looked at normal cells,
286
984000
6000
Ali Wigler je, osim gledanja u stanice raka
16:55
and made a really sort of surprising observation.
287
990000
3000
pogledao i u normalne stanice i donio iznenađujuće opažanje.
16:58
Which is, all of us have about 10 places in our genome
288
993000
4000
To je da svi mi imamo otprilike 10 mjesta u genomu
17:02
where we've lost a gene or gained another one.
289
997000
2000
gdje smo dobili ili izgubili gen.
17:05
So we're sort of all imperfect. And the question is well,
290
1000000
6000
Tako da smo svi na neki način nesavršeni. Pitanje je,
17:11
if we're around here, you know,
291
1006000
2000
ako smo već ovdje, znate,
17:13
these little losses or gains might not be too bad.
292
1008000
3000
ovi mali gubitci ili dobitci možda nisu tako strašni.
17:16
But if these deletions or amplifications occurred in the wrong gene,
293
1011000
5000
Ali ako se brisanje ili amplifikacija dogode u krivom genu,
17:21
maybe we'll feel sick.
294
1016000
1000
možda ćemo se razboljeti.
17:22
So the first disease he looked at is autism.
295
1017000
4000
Prva bolest koju smo pogledali je autizam.
17:26
And the reason we looked at autism is we had the money to do it.
296
1021000
5000
Razlog zbog kojeg smo proučavali autizam je taj što smo imali novaca za to.
17:31
Looking at an individual is about 3,000 dollars. And the parent of a child
297
1026000
5000
Proučavanje pojedinca stoji otprilike 3.000 dolara. A roditelj djeteta
17:36
with Asperger's disease, the high-intelligence autism,
298
1031000
2000
s Aspergerovom bolesti, autizma s visokom inteligencijom,
17:38
had sent his thing to a conventional company; they didn't do it.
299
1033000
5000
poslao je svoju stvar nekoj tvrtci koja to nije obavila.
17:43
Couldn't do it by conventional genetics, but just scanning it
300
1038000
3000
Nismo to mogli obaviti konvencionalnom genetikom, već samo skenirajući
17:46
we began to find genes for autism.
301
1041000
3000
počeli smo otkrivati gene za autizam.
17:49
And you can see here, there are a lot of them.
302
1044000
4000
Možete ovdje vidjeti da ih ima mnogo.
17:53
So a lot of autistic kids are autistic
303
1048000
4000
Mnogo je djece autistično
17:57
because they just lost a big piece of DNA.
304
1052000
2000
zato što su izgubili velike dijelove DNK.
17:59
I mean, big piece at the molecular level.
305
1054000
2000
Mislim, velike dijelove na molekularnoj razini.
18:01
We saw one autistic kid,
306
1056000
2000
Vidjeli smo jedno autistično dijete
18:03
about five million bases just missing from one of his chromosomes.
307
1058000
3000
kojemu je otprilike pet milijuna baza nedostajalo iz kromosoma.
18:06
We haven't yet looked at the parents, but the parents probably
308
1061000
3000
Nismo još proučili roditelje, iako vjerojatno roditelji
18:09
don't have that loss, or they wouldn't be parents.
309
1064000
3000
nemaju taj gubitak jer inače ne bi bili roditelji.
18:12
Now, so, our autism study is just beginning. We got three million dollars.
310
1067000
7000
Sad, dakle, naše proučavanje autizma tek počinje. Dobili smo 3 milijuna dolara.
18:19
I think it will cost at least 10 to 20 before you'd be in a position
311
1074000
4000
Mislim da će koštati barem 10 ili 20 prije nego što ćemo biti u poziciji
18:23
to help parents who've had an autistic child,
312
1078000
3000
pomoći roditeljima koji imaju autistično dijete
18:26
or think they may have an autistic child,
313
1081000
2000
ili misle da bi mogli imati autistično dijete,
18:28
and can we spot the difference?
314
1083000
2000
a da mi možemo otkriti razliku?
18:30
So this same technique should probably look at all.
315
1085000
3000
Ova bi tehnika trebala vjerojatno gledati na sve.
18:33
It's a wonderful way to find genes.
316
1088000
4000
To je prekrasan način traženja gena.
18:37
And so, I'll conclude by saying
317
1092000
2000
I tako, završit ću tako što ću reći
18:39
we've looked at 20 people with schizophrenia.
318
1094000
2000
da smo proučili 20 osoba sa shizofrenijom.
18:41
And we thought we'd probably have to look at several hundred
319
1096000
4000
I mislili smo da ćemo morati proučiti nekoliko stotina
18:45
before we got the picture. But as you can see,
320
1100000
2000
prije nego što shvatimo bit. Ali kako možete vidjeti,
18:47
there's seven out of 20 had a change which was very high.
321
1102000
4000
sedam od dvadeset ima veliku vjerojatnost.
18:51
And yet, in the controls there were three.
322
1106000
3000
A opet, u kontrolnoj grupi bilo ih je troje.
18:54
So what's the meaning of the controls?
323
1109000
2000
Koje je značenje kontrolne skupine?
18:56
Were they crazy also, and we didn't know it?
324
1111000
2000
Jesu li i oni također ludi, a mi to nismo znali?
18:58
Or, you know, were they normal? I would guess they're normal.
325
1113000
4000
Ili su, znate, ipak normalni? Rekao bih da su normalni.
19:02
And what we think in schizophrenia is there are genes of predisposure,
326
1117000
7000
I što mislimo o shizofreniji je to da postoje geni za predispoziciju,
19:09
and whether this is one that predisposes --
327
1124000
6000
i ovisno je li ovaj taj koji predisponira -
19:15
and then there's only a sub-segment of the population
328
1130000
4000
onda postoji samo subsegment populacije
19:19
that's capable of being schizophrenic.
329
1134000
2000
koji je sposoban biti shizofreničan.
19:21
Now, we don't have really any evidence of it,
330
1136000
4000
Sad, nemamo doista dokaze za to,
19:25
but I think, to give you a hypothesis, the best guess
331
1140000
5000
ali mislim, dat ću vam hipotezu,
19:30
is that if you're left-handed, you're prone to schizophrenia.
332
1145000
6000
ako ste ljevak, skloniji ste shizofreniji.
19:36
30 percent of schizophrenic people are left-handed,
333
1151000
3000
30 posto shizofreničara su ljevaci,
19:39
and schizophrenia has a very funny genetics,
334
1154000
3000
a shizofrenija ima vrlo smiješnu genetiku,
19:42
which means 60 percent of the people are genetically left-handed,
335
1157000
4000
što znači da su 60 posto ljudi genetski ljevaci,
19:46
but only half of it showed. I don't have the time to say.
336
1161000
3000
ali samo polovica od njih to i pokazuje. Nemam vremena objašnjavati.
19:49
Now, some people who think they're right-handed
337
1164000
3000
Ali neki ljudi koji misle da su dešnjaci
19:52
are genetically left-handed. OK. I'm just saying that, if you think,
338
1167000
6000
zapravo su genetski ljevaci. OK. Samo kažem da ako mislite,
19:58
oh, I don't carry a left-handed gene so therefore my, you know,
339
1173000
4000
o, ne nosim gen za ljevorukost, i tako,znate,
20:02
children won't be at risk of schizophrenia. You might. OK?
340
1177000
3000
moja djeca neće imati rizik za shizofreniju. Mogli biste. OK?
20:05
(Laughter)
341
1180000
3000
(Smijeh)
20:08
So it's, to me, an extraordinarily exciting time.
342
1183000
3000
Tako da je to, za mene, iznimno uzbudljivo vrijeme.
20:11
We ought to be able to find the gene for bipolar;
343
1186000
2000
Trebali bismo moći naći gene za bipolarnost;
20:13
there's a relationship.
344
1188000
1000
postoji povezanost.
20:14
And if I had enough money, we'd find them all this year.
345
1189000
4000
A kad bismo imali dovoljno novca, pronašli bismo ih sve ove godine.
20:18
I thank you.
346
1193000
1000
Hvala vam.
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
James Watson - Biologist, Nobel laureateNobel laureate James Watson took part in one of the most important scientific breakthroughs of the 20th century: the discovery of the structure of DNA. More than 50 years later, he continues to investigate biology's deepest secrets.
Why you should listen
James Watson has led a long, remarkable life, starting at age 12, when he was one of radio's high-IQ Quiz Kids. By age 15, he had enrolled in the University of Chicago, and by 25, working with Francis Crick (and drawing, controversially, on the research of Maurice Wilkins and Rosalind Franklin), he had made the discovery that would eventually win the three men the Nobel Prize.
Watson and Crick's 1953 discovery of DNA's double-helix structure paved the way for the astounding breakthroughs in genetics and medicine that marked the second half of the 20th century. And Watson's classic 1968 memoir of the discovery, The Double Helix, changed the way the public perceives scientists, thanks to its candid account of the personality conflicts on the project.
From 1988 to 1994, he ran the Human Genome Project. His current passion is the quest to identify genetic bases for major illnesses; in 2007 he put his fully sequenced genome online, the second person to do so, in an effort to encourage personalized medicine and early detection and prevention of diseases.
James Watson | Speaker | TED.com