TEDIndia 2009
His Holiness the Karmapa: The technology of the heart
Njegova Svetost Karmapa: Tehnologija srca
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Njegova Svetost Karmapa govori o tem, kako so ga odkrili kot reinkarnacijo izredno cenjene osebnosti v tibetanskem budizmu. S pripovedovanjem svoje zgodbe nas spodbuja, da se ne posvečamo le tehnologiji in oblikovanju, temveč tudi tehnologiji in oblikovanju srca. Na odru ga prevaja Tyler Dewar.
His Holiness the Karmapa - Spiritual leader
Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa, a revered figure in Tibetan Buddhism devoted to preserving and propagating Buddhist teachings. Full bio
Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa, a revered figure in Tibetan Buddhism devoted to preserving and propagating Buddhist teachings. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:30
Tyler Dewar: The way I feel right now
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Tyler Dewar: Počutim se kot,
00:32
is that all of the other speakers
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da so vsi ostali predavatelji
00:34
have said exactly what I wanted to say.
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povedali natanko to, kar sem želel povedati sam.
00:36
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
00:38
And it seems that the only thing left for me to say
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In zdi se, da je edino kar mi ostane,
00:41
is to thank you all for your kindness.
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da se zahvalim za vašo ljubeznivost.
00:58
TD: But maybe in the spirit
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TD: A morda lahko v duhu
01:00
of appreciating the kindness of you all,
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hvaležnosti za vašo ljubeznivost,
01:02
I could share with you
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z vami delim
01:04
a little story about myself.
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zgodbico o sebi.
01:50
TD: From the time I was very young, onward,
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TD: Od zelo rane mladosti dalje,
01:53
I was given
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so mi naložili
01:55
a lot of different responsibilities,
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veliko vseh mogočih odgovornosti,
01:57
and it always seemed to me, when I was young,
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in ko sem bil majhen se mi je vedno zdelo,
02:00
that everything was laid out before me.
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da je zame že v naprej vse določeno.
02:02
All of the plans for me were already made.
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Vsi načrti zame so bili že narejeni.
02:05
I was given the clothes that I needed to wear
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Dali so mi obleke, ki sem jih moral nositi,
02:07
and told where I needed to be,
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povedali so mi kje moram biti,
02:09
given these very precious
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glede na to da nosim ta, izredno dragocena
02:11
and holy looking robes to wear,
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in posvečena meniška oblačila,
02:14
with the understanding
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z razumevanjem
02:16
that it was something sacred or important.
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da gre za nekaj svetega in pomembnega.
03:07
TD: But before that kind of formal lifestyle happened for me,
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TD: A preden sem pričel živeti to formalno življenje,
03:11
I was living in eastern Tibet with my family.
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sem s svojo družino živel v Vzhodnem Tibetu.
03:14
And when I was seven years old,
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In ko sem bil star sedem let,
03:17
all of a sudden,
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je povsem nepričakovano,
03:19
a search party arrived at my home.
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v moj dom prišla skupina ljudi.
03:21
They were looking the next Karmapa,
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Iskali so naslednjega Karmapo,
03:24
and I noticed they were talking to my mom and dad,
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in opazil sem, da se pogovarjajo z mojo mamo in očetom.
03:27
and the news came to me that they were telling me
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Do mene je prišla novica,
03:30
that I was the Karmapa.
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da sem Karmapa jaz.
03:32
And these days, people ask me a lot,
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In dandanes me ljudje pogosto sprašujejo
03:34
how did that feel.
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kako sem se takrat počutil.
03:36
How did that feel when they came and whisked you away,
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Kako ti je bilo, ko so prišli in te na hitro odpeljali,
03:38
and your lifestyle completely changed?
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in se je s tem tvoj življenjski slog popolnoma spremenil?
03:40
And what I mostly say is that,
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In kar jim ponavadi odgovorim je,
03:42
at that time,
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da je bila takrat zame
03:44
it was a pretty interesting idea to me.
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to precej zanimiva ideja.
03:47
I thought that things would be pretty fun
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Zdelo se mi je, da bo kar zabavno
03:49
and there would be more things to play with.
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in da bo dosti več stvari, s katerimi se bom lahko igral.
03:52
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
04:56
TD: But it didn't turn out to be so fun and entertaining,
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TD: A izkazalo se je, da ni bilo tako zabavno in prijetno,
04:59
as I thought it would have been.
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kot sem si predstavljal.
05:01
I was placed
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Postavljen sem bil
05:03
in a pretty strictly controlled environment.
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v precej strogo nadzorovano okolje.
05:06
And immediately,
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In nemudoma
05:08
a lot of different responsibilities,
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so se name zgrnile različne odgovornosti,
05:10
in terms of my education and so forth, were heaped upon me.
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v smislu mojega izobraževanja in drugih stvari.
05:13
I was separated, largely, from my family,
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V veliki meri sem bil ločen od svoje družine,
05:15
including my mother and father.
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vključno z mojo mamo in očetom.
05:17
I didn't have have many personal friends
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Nisem imel veliko osebnih prijateljev
05:19
to spend time with,
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s katerimi bi lahko preživljal čas,
05:21
but I was expected to perform
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namesto tega so od mene pričakovali,
05:23
these prescribed duties.
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da bom izvajal vse predpisane dolžnosti.
05:25
So it turned out that my fantasy
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Izkazalo se je, da se moja fantazija
05:28
about an entertaining life of being the Karmapa
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o zabavnem življenju Karmape
05:30
wasn't going to come true.
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ne bo izpolnila.
05:32
It more felt to be the case to me
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Bolj kot to, se mi je zdelo,
05:34
that I was being treated like a statue,
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da z menoj delajo kot s kipom,
05:37
and I was to sit in one place
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in jaz naj bi sedel na enem mestu
05:40
like a statue would.
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tako kot kip.
06:31
TD: Nevertheless, I felt that,
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TD: A vendarle sem čutil,
06:33
even though I've been separated from my loved ones --
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čeprav sem bil ločen od svojih najbližjih --
06:36
and, of course, now I'm even further away.
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in, seveda, zdaj sem oddaljen še dlje.
06:39
When I was 14, I escaped from Tibet
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Pri štirinajstih letih sem pobegnil iz Tibeta
06:41
and became even further removed
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in s tem postal še bolj oddaljen
06:43
from my mother and father,
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od svoje mame in očeta,
06:45
my relatives, my friends
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sorodnikov in prijateljev
06:47
and my homeland.
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in svoje domovine.
06:49
But nevertheless,
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A vendarle,
06:51
there's no real sense of separation from me in my heart,
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v svojem srcu ne čutim prave ločitve
06:54
in terms of the love that I feel
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v smislu ljubezni, ki jo čutim
06:57
for these people.
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do teh ljudi.
06:59
I feel, still, a very strong connection of love
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Še vedno čutim zelo močno povezanost v ljubezni
07:02
for all of these people
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s temi ljudmi
07:04
and for the land.
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in s to deželo.
07:32
TD: And I still do
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TD: In še vedno
07:34
get to keep in touch with my mother and father,
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sem v stiku s svojo mamo in očetom,
07:36
albeit infrequently.
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pa čeprav ne zelo pogosto.
07:38
I talk to my mother
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Zelo redko se pogovarjam z mamo
07:40
once in a blue moon on the telephone.
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po telefonu.
07:42
And my experience is that,
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In ko se pogovarjam z njo
07:44
when I'm talking to her,
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se mi zdi, da naju
07:46
with every second that passes
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vsako sekundo
07:48
during our conversation,
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najinega pogovora,
07:50
the feeling of love that binds us
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ljubezen, ki naju veže
07:53
is bringing us closer and closer together.
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vse bolj povezuje.
09:08
TD: So those were just a few remarks
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TD: To je bilo le nekaj malega
09:10
about my personal background.
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o mojem ozadju.
09:12
And in terms of other things that I wanted to share with you,
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In kar se tiče drugih stvari, ki sem jih želel deliti z vami
09:15
in terms of ideas,
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v smislu idej,
09:17
I think it's wonderful to have a situation like this,
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menim, da je čudovito imeti takšne priložnosti,
09:20
where so many people from different backgrounds and places
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ko se zbere toliko ljudi,
09:23
can come together,
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z različnih okolij in dežel,
09:25
exchange their ideas
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ki izmenjujejo zamisli,
09:27
and form relationships of friendship with each other.
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in med seboj ustvarjajo prijateljske odnose .
09:30
And I think that's symbolic
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In mislim, da je to simbol tega,
09:32
of what we're seeing in the world in general,
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kar lahko vidimo v svetu na splošno,
09:34
that the world is becoming smaller and smaller,
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da svet postaja vse manjši,
09:36
and that all of the peoples in the world
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in da imajo vsi ljudje na svetu
09:39
are enjoying more opportunities for connection.
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več priložnosti za povezovanje.
09:43
That's wonderful,
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To je res čudovito,
09:45
but we should also remember
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a ne smemo pozabiti,
09:47
that we should have a similar process happening on the inside.
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da se mora podoben proces dogajati tudi navznoter.
09:50
Along with outward development
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Skupaj z zunanjim razvojem,
09:52
and increase of opportunity,
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in vse več priložnostmi,
09:54
there should be inward development
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bi moral obstajati tudi notranji razvoj
09:57
and deepening of our heart connections
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in poglabljanje povezav med našimi srci
10:00
as well as our outward connections.
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tako kot zunanjih povezav.
10:04
So we spoke and we heard some
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Ta teden smo govorili in slišali nekaj
10:06
about design this week.
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o oblikovanju.
10:08
I think that it's important for us to remember
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Mislim, da si je pomembno zapomniti
10:10
that we need
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da se moramo
10:12
to keep pushing forward
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vztrajno truditi
10:14
on the endeavor
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pri
10:16
of the design of the heart.
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oblikovanju našega srca.
10:18
We heard a lot about technology this week,
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Ta teden smo slišali veliko o tehnologiji
10:20
and it's important for us to remember
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in pomembno je, da si zapomnimo
10:22
to invest a lot of our energy
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da moramo veliko energije vložiti
10:25
in improving the technology of the heart.
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v izboljšanje tehnologije srca.
10:47
TD: So, even though I'm somewhat happy
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TD: Torej, čeprav sem po svoje vesel
10:49
about the wonderful developments that are happening in the world,
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čudovitega razvoja ki se dogaja po svetu,
10:52
still, I feel a sense of impediment,
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še vedno čutim nekakšno oviro,
10:55
when it comes
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ko pride do
10:57
to the ability that we have
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naše sposobnosti,
10:59
to connect with each other on a heart-to-heart, or a mind-to-mind, level.
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da se povezujemo med seboj na ravni srca ali na ravni uma.
11:02
I feel that there are some things
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Mislim, da
11:05
that are getting in the way.
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nam nekatere stvari hodijo v napoto.
11:43
TC: My relationship
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TC: Moj odnos
11:45
to this concept of heart-to-heart connection, or mind-to-mind connection,
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do koncepta povezave na ravni srca ali na ravni uma,
11:48
is an interesting one,
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je zanimiv,
11:50
because, as a spiritual leader, I'm always attempting
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saj, kot duhovni vodja, vedno skušam
11:52
to open my heart to others
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odpreti svoje srce drugim
11:54
and offer myself up
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in se predati
11:56
for heart-to-heart and mind-to-mind connections
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povezavi na ravni srca in na ravni uma
11:58
in a genuine way with other people,
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na iskren način, z ostalimi ljudmi,
12:00
but at the same time,
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a istočasno,
12:02
I've always been advised
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so mi vedno svetovali,
12:04
that I need to emphasize intelligence
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da moram poudarjati inteligenco,
12:06
over the heart-to-heart connections,
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prej kot povezavo med srci,
12:08
because, being someone in a position like mine,
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saj se nekomu v mojem položaju
12:12
if I don't rely primarily on intelligence,
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če se prvotno ne zanese na inteligenco,
12:15
then something dangerous may happen to me.
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lahko zgodijo nevarne stvari.
12:19
So it's an interesting paradox at play there.
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In tu imamo zanimiv paradoks.
12:25
But I had a really striking experience once,
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A nekoč sem imel izredno osupljivo izkušnjo,
12:28
when a group from Afghanistan
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ko je k meni na obisk prišla skupina
12:30
came to visit me,
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iz Afganistana
12:32
and we had a really interesting conversation.
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in smo imeli zelo zanimivo debato.
14:10
TD: So we ended up talking about the Bamiyan Buddhas,
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TD: In tako je pogovor nanesel na kipe Bud iz Bamiyana
14:13
which, as you know,
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ki so bili, kot veste
14:15
were destroyed some years ago in Afghanistan.
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pred nekaj leti uničeni v Afganistanu.
14:19
But the basis of our conversation
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A osnova našega pogovora
14:21
was the different approach to spirituality
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je bil drugačen pristop k duhovnosti
14:23
on the part of the Muslim
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v Islamu
14:25
and Buddhist traditions.
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za razliko od budističnih izročil.
14:27
Of course, in Muslim,
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Seveda v Islamu,
14:29
because of the teachings around the concept of idolatry,
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zaradi naukov povezanih s konceptom malikovanja
14:32
you don't find as many
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ne najdemo toliko
14:34
physical representations of divinity
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fizičnih prikazov božanskega,
14:36
or of spiritual liberation
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ali duhovne osvoboditve
14:38
as you do in the Buddhist tradition,
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kot jih lahko najdemo v budističnem izročilu,
14:40
where, of course, there are many statues of the Buddha
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kjer je, seveda, veliko kipov Bude
14:43
that are highly revered.
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ki so izredno globoko spoštovani.
14:48
So, we were talking about the differences
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Govorili smo torej o razlikah
14:50
between the traditions
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med izročili
14:52
and what many people perceived
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in o tem, kar so mnogi razumeli kot tragedijo -
14:54
as the tragedy of the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas,
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uničenje Budovih kipov v Bamiyanu.
14:57
but I offered the suggestion
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A jaz sem predlagal,
14:59
that perhaps we could look at this in a positive way.
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da bi na to morda lahko pogledali na pozitiven način.
15:03
What we saw in the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas
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Kar smo videli v primeru uničenja Bud iz Bamiyana
15:10
was the depletion of matter,
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je izčrpavanje materije.
15:13
some solid substance
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Neka trdna substanca
15:15
falling down and disintegrating.
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se sesuje in razpade.
15:17
Maybe we could look at that to be more similar
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Morda pa bi na to lahko gledali bolj podobno,
15:19
to the falling of the Berlin Wall,
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kot na padec Berlinskega zidu,
15:21
where a divide
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kjer se je ločnica,
15:23
that had kept two types of people apart
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ki je ločevala dve vrsti ljudi
15:26
had collapsed and opened up a door
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porušila in odprla vrata
15:28
for further communication.
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nadaljnjemu povezovanju.
15:30
So I think that, in this way,
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Zato mislim, da je na takšen način
15:32
it's always possible for us
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vedno mogoče
15:34
to derive something positive
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izpeljati nekaj pozitivnega,
15:37
that can help us understand one another better.
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kar nam lahko pomaga bolje razumeti drug drugega.
16:20
TD: So, with regard to the development
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TD: Torej, glede razvoja
16:22
that we've been talking about
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o katerem smo govorili
16:24
here at this conference,
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na tej konferenci,
16:26
I really feel
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resnično čutim,
16:28
that the development that we make
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da nam razvoj, ki ga ustvarjamo
16:31
shouldn't create a further burden
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ne sme povzročati
16:33
for us as human beings,
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dodatnega bremena,
16:35
but should be used
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temveč ga moramo uporabiti za to
16:37
to improve
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da izboljšamo
16:40
our fundamental lifestyle
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naše temeljni življenjski slog,
16:42
of how we live in the world.
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način, kako živimo v tem svetu.
18:16
TD: Of course, I rejoice
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TD: Seveda, se veselim
18:18
in the development and the growth and the rise
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ko opazujem razvoj, rast in vzpon
18:21
of the noble land of India, the great country of India,
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plemenite Indije, imenitne Indijske države,
18:24
but at the same time, I think,
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a istočasno mislim,
18:26
as some of us have acknowledged,
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kot smo nekateri že opazili,
18:29
we need to be aware
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da moramo biti pozorni na dejstvo,
18:31
that some aspects of this rise
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da se nekateri vidiki te rasti
18:34
are coming at the cost
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odvijajo na račun
18:37
of the very ground
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zemlje,
18:39
on which we stand.
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na kateri stojimo.
18:41
So, as we are climbing the tree,
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Ko torej plezamo na drevo,
18:44
some of the things that we're doing
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nekatere stvari, ki jih počnemo
18:46
in order to climb the tree
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da bi se vzpeli nanj,
18:48
are actually undermining
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v resnici uničujejo
18:50
the tree's very root.
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korenine tega drevesa.
18:52
And so,
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In zato,
18:54
what I think it comes down to
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mislim, da vse skupaj ne pripelje le do
18:56
is a question of, not only having information of what's going on,
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vprašanja tega ali imamo informacije o tem kar se dogaja,
19:00
but paying attention to that
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temveč, do tega, da moramo biti pozorni na to
19:03
and letting that shift our motivation
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in si dovoliti, da spremenimo svojo motivacijo,
19:06
to become more sincere
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postanemo bolj odkritosrčni
19:09
and genuinely positive.
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in pristno pozitivni.
19:13
We have hear, this week,
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Ta teden smo, na primer, poslušali
19:15
about the horrible sufferings, for example,
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o grozljivem trpljenju
19:19
that so many women of the world
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ki ga mnoge ženske na svetu
19:22
are enduring day-to-day.
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prenašajo iz dneva v dan.
19:24
We have that information,
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Imamo to informacijo,
19:26
but what often happens to us
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a kar se nam pogosto zgodi je,
19:28
is that we don't really choose to pay attention to it.
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da se ne odločimo zares, da bi ji posvetili pozornost.
19:31
We don't really choose to allow that
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Ne odločimo se, da bi si dovolili
19:33
to cause there to be a shift in our hearts.
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spremembo v naših srcih.
19:36
So I think the way forward for the world --
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Zato mislim, da je pot, ki bo ta svet peljala naprej --
19:38
one that will bring the path of outer development
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tista, ki bo pripeljala pot zunanjega razvoja
19:42
in harmony
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v harmonijo
19:47
with the real root of happiness --
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z resničnimi koreninami sreče --
19:50
is that we allow
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da dovolimo
19:52
the information that we have
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informacijam, ki jih imamo,
19:54
to really make a change in our heart.
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da resnično spremenijo naše srce.
20:45
TD: So I think that sincere motivation
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TD: Zato mislim, da je iskrena motivacija
20:47
is very important for our future well-being,
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izredno pomembna za našo prihodnjo dobrobit
20:50
or deep sense of well-being as humans,
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ali globok občutek blagostanja,
20:53
and I think that means sinking in
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in mislim da to pomeni, poglobitev v
20:56
to whatever it is you're doing now.
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karkoli že počnete zdaj.
20:58
Whatever work you're trying to do now to benefit the world,
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Kakršnokoli delo skušate opraviti zdaj, da bi koristili svetu,
21:00
sink into that,
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poglobite se vanj,
21:02
get a full taste of that.
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in ga poskušajte občutiti v popolnosti.
21:40
TD: So, since we've been here this week,
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TD: Odkar smo tu ta teden,
21:42
we've taken millions of breaths, collectively,
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smo skupaj vdihnili že neštetokrat ,
21:47
and perhaps we haven't witnessed
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in morda nismo zaznali
21:49
any course changes
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nikakršne pomembne spremembe
21:51
happening in our lives,
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v našem življenju,
21:53
but we often miss the very subtle changes.
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a pogosto spregledamo zelo subtilne spremembe.
21:56
And I think
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In mislim
21:59
that sometimes we develop
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da kdaj razvijamo
22:01
grand concepts
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velikanske koncepte
22:03
of what happiness
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o tem kaj sreča
22:05
might look like for us,
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pomeni za nas,
22:07
but that, if we pay attention,
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a če smo dovolj pozorni
22:09
we can see that there are little symbols of happiness
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lahko vidimo, da so v vsakem našem vdihu
22:12
in every breath that we take.
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majhni simboli sreče.
23:21
TD: So, every one of you who has come here
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TD: In vsak od vas, ki je prišel sem,
23:24
is so talented,
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je izredno nadarjen,
23:26
and you have so much to offer to the world,
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in toliko lahko ponudite svetu,
23:30
I think it would be a good note to conclude on then
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zato mislim, da bi bilo dobro končati s tem,
23:34
to just take a moment
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da si preprosto vzamemo trenutek
23:37
to appreciate how fortunate we are
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da se zavemo, kako srečni smo lahko,
23:39
to have come together in this way and exchanged ideas
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da smo prišli skupaj in si izmenjali misli,
23:42
and really form a strong aspiration
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in da ustvarimo resnično močno aspiracijo
23:44
and energy within ourselves
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ter odločnost v sebi,
23:46
that we will take the good
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da bomo vzeli vse dobro,
23:48
that has come from this conference,
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kar smo dobili na tej konferenci,
23:50
the momentum, the positivity,
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zagon in pozitivnost,
23:53
and we will spread that and plant it
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in da jih bomo razširili in posejali
23:55
in all of the corners of the world.
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na vseh kotičkih tega sveta.
24:18
His Holiness the Karmapa: Tomorrow is my Talk.
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Njegova Svetost Karmapa: Jutri imam govor.
24:32
TD: Lakshmi has worked incredibly hard,
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TD: Lakshmi je neutrudno delala,
24:35
even in inviting me,
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celo na tem, da je povabila mene,
24:37
let alone everything else that she has done
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če niti ne omenjamo vsega drugega,
24:39
to make this happen,
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da je omogočila ta dogodek,
24:41
and I was somewhat resistant at times,
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in včasih sem se malce upiral,
24:44
and I was also very nervous throughout this week.
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in cel teden sem bil zelo nervozen.
24:47
I was feeling under the weather and dizzy and so forth,
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Slabo sem se počutil, malce zbegano in podobno,
24:50
and people would ask me, why.
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in ljudje so me spraševali zakaj.
24:52
I would tell them, "It's because I have to talk tomorrow."
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In povedal sem jim: "Zato, ker moram jutri govoriti."
24:57
And so Lakshmi had to put up with me through all of that,
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In Lakshmi je morala z menoj čez vse to,
25:00
but I very much appreciate
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a sem ji izredno hvaležen
25:02
the opportunity she's given me
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za priložnost, ki mi jo je dala,
25:04
to be here.
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da sem lahko tukaj.
25:06
And to you, everyone, thank you very much.
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In vsakemu od vas, iskrena hvala.
25:09
(Applause)
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(aplavz)
25:12
HH: Thank you very much.
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NS: Iskrena hvala.
25:14
(Applause)
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(aplavz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
His Holiness the Karmapa - Spiritual leaderOgyen Trinley Dorje is the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa, a revered figure in Tibetan Buddhism devoted to preserving and propagating Buddhist teachings.
Why you should listen
The name "Karmapa" means "the one who carries out Buddha-activity," and for seventeen lifetimes, a karmapa has embodied the teachings of Buddha in tibet. The 17th Gyalwang Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley Dorje, was born a nomad in Tibet in 1985 and recognized by the Dalai Lama in 1992 as the 17th Karmapa. The young boy was brought to the Tsurphu monastery to live and study for his life as a spiritual teacher and activist.
At age 14, he made a daring flight from Tibet, and now works from a temporary camp in Dharamsala, near his friend the Dalai Lama. (After the Dalai Lama, he's seen as Tibetan Buddhism's second-highest-ranking spiritual leader, though the two men lead different schools within the faith.) In 2008, he made a long visit to the United States, where he spoke and taught at Buddhist centers around the country. And in 2009 he toured Europe, speaking about faith -- but also about protecting the environment.
His Holiness the Karmapa | Speaker | TED.com