TEDxGeorgetown
Bobby Ghosh: Why global jihad is losing
Bobby Ghosh: Why global jihad is losing Bobby Ghosh：为什么说全球性的圣战正在消亡
Filmed:
Readability: 4.7
725,096 views
记者Bobby Ghosh说，纵观伊斯兰历史，圣战有两种涵义，内部的，个人向上的努力，以及外部的。很小一部分人（奥萨马本拉登们）认同第二个，并用以作为对抗“西方”的极端暴力活动的借口。Ghosh建议， 现在本拉登的全球性组织已经瓦解，是该让这个词回归本源的时候了。 (拍摄自TEDxGeorgetown。)
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
I'm going to talk about the power of a word:
0
891
3214
这里我想谈谈词汇的力量。
00:20
jihad.
1
4105
3056
圣战（jihad）
00:23
To the vast majority of practicing Muslims,
2
7161
4356
对于大多数穆斯林来说
00:27
jihad is an internal struggle for the faith.
3
11517
4024
圣战是为坚守信仰而经历的内心抗争。
00:31
It is a struggle within, a struggle against vice, sin,
4
15541
4686
是发自内心地抗争邪恶、罪恶、
00:36
temptation, lust, greed.
5
20227
2290
诱惑，肉欲和贪婪。
00:38
It is a struggle to try and live a life
6
22517
3629
是努力过上可兰经
00:42
that is set by the moral codes written in the Koran.
7
26146
6698
道德准则下的生活。
00:48
In that original idea, the concept of jihad is as important
8
32844
5470
在原始教义中，圣战之于穆斯林
00:54
to Muslims as the idea of grace is to Christians.
9
38314
5858
就如同主恩（grace）之于基督教徒那样重要。
01:00
It's a very powerful word, jihad, if you look at it in that respect,
10
44172
3746
从这个的角度来看，圣战，是一个非常有力的词汇，
01:03
and there's a certain almost mystical resonance to it.
11
47918
4982
能唤起某种几近神秘的共鸣。
01:08
And that's the reason why, for hundreds of years,
12
52900
2386
这也是为什么，数百年以来，
01:11
Muslims everywhere have named their children Jihad,
13
55286
2819
世界各地的穆斯林，纷纷为自己的女儿或儿子
01:14
their daughters as much as their sons, in the same way
14
58105
2522
起名为圣战（Jihad），
01:16
that, say, Christians name their daughters Grace,
15
60627
3822
就好比基督教徒为自己女儿起名Grace（圣恩），
01:20
and Hindus, my people, name our daughters Bhakti,
16
64449
3968
又好比我们印度教徒为自己女儿起名Bhakti(巴克缇），
01:24
which means, in Sanskrit, spiritual worship.
17
68417
5472
也就是梵语中精神崇拜的意思。
01:29
But there have always been, in Islam, a small group,
18
73889
2765
但在伊斯兰人群中，总是有一小群人，
01:32
a minority, who believe that jihad
19
76654
2469
少数人，认为圣战
01:35
is not only an internal struggle but also an external struggle
20
79123
2974
不仅是内心的抗争，而是对外的斗争，
01:37
against forces that would threaten the faith, or the faithul.
21
82097
6376
用来对抗任何威胁到他们信仰，或者信众的力量。
01:44
And some of these people believe that in that struggle,
22
88473
3121
其中有些人还认为这样的斗争中，
01:47
it is sometimes okay to take up arms.
23
91594
3599
可以拿起武器。
01:51
And so the thousands of young Muslim men
24
95193
2707
于是数千名年轻的穆斯林
01:53
who flocked to Afghanistan in the 1980s
25
97900
2917
在1980年代聚集到阿富汗
01:56
to fight against the Soviet occupation of a Muslim country,
26
100817
3728
与占领穆斯林国家的苏联作战，
02:00
in their minds they were fighting a jihad,
27
104545
2728
在他们心中，这才是圣战，
02:03
they were doing jihad,
28
107273
2416
是护教战争，
02:05
and they named themselves the Mujahideen,
29
109689
2792
他们把自己称为穆斯林圣战游击队，
02:08
which is a word that comes from the same root as jihad.
30
112481
4784
用的就是和圣战（Jihad）一样的词根。
02:13
And we forget this now, but back then
31
117265
2840
如今，我们已经忘记了这些，但是当年
02:16
the Mujahideen were celebrated in this country, in America.
32
120105
3958
穆斯林圣战游击队在这个国家，在美国都受到颂扬。
02:19
We thought of them as holy warriors who were taking
33
124063
2498
我们认为他们是与共产主义异教徒
02:22
the good fight to the ungodly communists.
34
126561
3756
进行正义战争的圣战勇士。
02:26
America gave them weapons, gave them money,
35
130317
2045
美国给枪，给钱，
02:28
gave them support, encouragement.
36
132362
2999
给予他们支持与鼓励。
02:31
But within that group, a tiny, smaller group,
37
135361
2326
但是就在这群人中，更小一小撮，
02:33
a minority within a minority within a minority,
38
137687
3882
少之又少的一小撮，
02:37
were coming up with a new and dangerous
39
141569
2985
正在形成一个全新而危险的
02:40
conception of jihad,
40
144554
2819
圣战的概念，
02:43
and in time this group would come to be led by Osama bin Laden,
41
147373
5309
那个时候，这群人的领袖就是奥萨马本拉登。
02:48
and he refined the idea.
42
152682
1500
他重新定义了这个概念。
02:50
His idea of jihad was a global war of terror,
43
154182
4638
他关于圣战的概念是全球的恐怖主义战争，
02:54
primarily targeted at the far enemy,
44
158820
2510
主要是针对自己的死敌，
02:57
at the crusaders from the West, against America.
45
161330
4399
从十字军到西方世界，反对美国。
03:01
And the things he did in the pursuit of this jihad
46
165729
2839
他在追求圣战时的所作所为
03:04
were so horrendous, so monstrous,
47
168568
2680
令人发指，
03:07
and had such great impact,
48
171248
1975
并且影响力巨大，
03:09
that his definition was the one that stuck,
49
173223
4204
他的定义不仅限于本地，
03:13
not just here in the West.
50
177427
1279
而且剑指西方世界。
03:14
We didn't know any better. We didn't pause to ask.
51
178706
3859
我们对此知之甚少。我们也没有更多的关注。
03:18
We just assumed that if this insane man and his psychopathic followers
52
182565
4570
我们只是认为如果这个疯狂的人和他狂热的追随者
03:23
were calling what they did jihad, then that's what jihad must mean.
53
187135
5210
把他们的行为称为圣战，便以为圣战就是他们说的意思。
03:28
But it wasn't just us. Even in the Muslim world,
54
192345
3257
但是，不光是我们，就是穆斯林世界，
03:31
his definition of jihad began to gain acceptance.
55
195602
4671
他对于圣战的定义都开始得到认可。
03:36
A year ago I was in Tunis, and I met the imam
56
200273
3352
一年以前我在突尼斯，我在一个很小的清真寺遇到了一个阿訇
03:39
of a very small mosque, an old man.
57
203625
1940
一位老人。
03:41
Fifteen years ago, he named his granddaughter Jihad,
58
205565
3965
在十五年前，他给自己的孙女起名Jihad（圣战），
03:45
after the old meaning. He hoped that a name like that
59
209530
2967
当然用的是原来的涵义。他希望这样的名字
03:48
would inspire her to live a spiritual life.
60
212497
4432
能够在孙女的精神世界鼓舞她。
03:52
But he told me that after 9/11,
61
216929
2680
但是他告诉我，在911之后，
03:55
he began to have second thoughts.
62
219609
2680
他想法变了。
03:58
He worried that if he called her by that name,
63
222289
1946
他担心如果他还叫她这个名字，
04:00
especially outdoors, outside in public,
64
224235
2525
特别是在大庭广众之下叫，
04:02
he might be seen as endorsing bin Laden's idea of jihad.
65
226760
5918
他可能会被认为是支持本拉登对圣战的理念。
04:08
On Fridays in his mosque, he gave sermons
66
232678
2463
每个周五在他的清真寺，他布道的时候
04:11
trying to reclaim the meaning of the word,
67
235141
4417
都试图重申这个词的原意，
04:15
but his congregants, the people who came to his mosque,
68
239558
3739
但是他的教众，那些到清真寺来的人，
04:19
they had seen the videos. They had seen pictures
69
243297
2228
他们都看到了那些视频。都看到了飞机撞向
04:21
of the planes going into the towers, the towers coming down.
70
245525
5742
世贸大厦，大厦倒塌的画面。
04:27
They had heard bin Laden say that that was jihad,
71
251267
3026
他们都听到本拉登把这个称为圣战，
04:30
and claimed victory for it. And so the old imam worried
72
254293
2961
并称之为胜利。这位老人非常担心
04:33
that his words were falling on deaf ears. No one was paying attention.
73
257254
4296
他自己的说法如对牛弹琴，无人注意。
04:37
He was wrong. Some people were paying attention,
74
261550
3272
但是他错了，人们认真聆听，
04:40
but for the wrong reasons.
75
264822
1906
但却是另有原因。
04:42
The United States, at this point, was putting pressure
76
266728
2774
当时的美国，正在给阿拉伯国联盟国家，
04:45
on all its Arab allies, including Tunisia,
77
269502
2439
包括突尼斯施加压力，
04:47
to stamp out extremism in their societies,
78
271941
4337
要求他们清除社会中的极端势力，
04:52
and this imam found himself suddenly in the crosshairs
79
276278
3467
这位阿訇发现自己突然被突尼斯情报部门
04:55
of the Tunisian intelligence service.
80
279745
2871
给盯上了。
04:58
They had never paid him any attention before --
81
282616
1456
之前他们从来关注过
04:59
old man, small mosque --
82
284072
3225
这位老人，这么小的一个清真寺，
05:03
but now they began to pay visits,
83
287297
2210
但是现在他们开始频繁拜访，
05:05
and sometimes they would drag him in for questions,
84
289507
1662
有时候还会拉着他问一些问题，
05:07
and always the same question:
85
291169
1348
其中总会有这个同样的问题：
05:08
"Why did you name your granddaughter Jihad?
86
292517
4211
为什么给你孙女起名叫Jihad（圣战）
05:12
Why do you keep using the word jihad in your Friday sermons?
87
296728
4599
为什么在你周五布道是总是提到圣战这个词？
05:17
Do you hate Americans?
88
301327
2065
你恨美国人吗？
05:19
What is your connection to Osama bin Laden?"
89
303392
4120
你和奥萨马本拉登什么关系？
05:23
So to the Tunisian intelligence agency,
90
307512
2015
在突尼斯情报部门看来，
05:25
and organizations like it all over the Arab world,
91
309527
2833
或者在阿拉伯世界的类似机构看来，
05:28
jihad equaled extremism,
92
312360
4464
圣战等同于极端主义，
05:32
Bin Laden's definition had become institutionalized.
93
316824
3934
本拉登下的定义已经鸠占鹊巢。
05:36
That was the power of that word that he was able to do.
94
320758
3789
这就是词汇的力量，也是他能做到的事情。
05:40
And it filled this old imam, it filled him with great sadness.
95
324547
5722
这个让这位阿訇老人非常伤心。
05:46
He told me that, of bin Laden's many crimes, this was,
96
330269
2915
他说，在他看来，没有引起足够关注的是，
05:49
in his mind, one that didn't get enough attention,
97
333184
3072
因为本拉登的罪恶行径，
05:52
that he took this word, this beautiful idea.
98
336256
3798
这个词的美好涵义被剥夺。
05:55
He didn't so much appropriate it as kidnapped it
99
340054
4466
就好像这个词被绑架，
06:00
and debased it and corrupted it
100
344520
2880
被糟蹋，或者被迫堕落一样
06:03
and turned it into something it was never meant to be,
101
347400
3360
变成了它从来不应该成为的东西，
06:06
and then persuaded all of us that it always was
102
350760
5677
并且说服我们所有人，这个词从来就是
06:12
a global jihad.
103
356437
2642
全球性圣战的意思。
06:14
But the good news is
104
359079
3543
但是好消息是
06:18
that the global jihad is almost over, as bin Laden defined it.
105
362622
5779
本拉登定义的全球性圣战这个概念已经终结。
06:24
It was dying well before he did,
106
368401
2558
在他被击毙之前这个定义已经快要消亡了，
06:26
and now it's on its last legs.
107
370959
2309
现在更是行将就木。
06:29
Opinion polls from all over the Muslim world show
108
373268
2339
在穆斯林中的调查显示
06:31
that there is very little interest among Muslims
109
375607
4552
在穆斯林当中对于西方世界，
06:36
in a global holy war against the West,
110
380159
2510
对于死敌的全球性圣战
06:38
against the far enemy.
111
382669
3314
已经没有什么市场了。
06:41
The supply of young men willing to fight and die for this cause is dwindling.
112
385983
4210
愿意为之战斗并献身的年轻人越来越少。
06:46
The supply of money — just as important, more important perhaps —
113
390193
2695
同样重要，甚至是也许更重要的，
06:48
the supply of money to this activity is also dwindling.
114
392888
2663
是对于这种行为的资助也越来越少。
06:51
The wealthy fanatics who were previously
115
395551
2808
那些之前资助这些活动的极端狂热的富翁们
06:54
sponsoring this kind of activity are now less generous.
116
398359
6616
也没有原来那么大方了。
07:00
What does that mean for us in the West?
117
404975
1433
这对我们西方来说意味着什么呢？
07:02
Does it mean we can break out the champagne,
118
406408
3719
这是不是说我们就可以打开香槟，
07:06
wash our hands of it, disengage, sleep easy at night?
119
410127
5228
洗洗手，放松下来，然后安心睡个好觉了？
07:11
No. Disengagement is not an option,
120
415355
5084
放松是不行的，
07:16
because if you let local jihad survive,
121
420439
6496
因为你如果让地区性圣战生存下来，
07:22
it becomes international jihad.
122
426935
2784
就会变成国际圣战。
07:25
And so there's now a lot of different
123
429719
2681
而且，现在各种各样的
07:28
violent jihads all over the world.
124
432400
2536
暴力圣战出现在世界各地。
07:30
In Somalia, in Mali, in Nigeria,
125
434936
2287
在索马里，在马里，在尼日利亚，
07:33
in Iraq, in Afghanistan, Pakistan, there are groups that claim
126
437223
5151
在伊拉克，在阿富汗，巴基斯坦，众多组织
07:38
to be the inheritors of the legacy of Osama bin Laden.
127
442374
5398
继承了奥萨马本拉登的衣钵。
07:43
They use his rhetoric.
128
447772
1516
他们仍然运用他的伎俩。
07:45
They even use the brand name he created for his jihad.
129
449288
5167
他们甚至就用他给自己的圣战所采用的名号。
07:50
So there is now an al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb,
130
454455
4158
在伊斯兰马格里布有个基地组织，
07:54
there's an al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula,
131
458613
1629
在阿拉伯半岛有个基地组织，
07:56
there is an al Qaeda in Mesopotamia.
132
460242
2650
在美索不达米亚也有个基地组织。
07:58
There are other groups -- in Nigeria, Boko Haram,
133
462892
2087
还有其他的组织，如尼日利亚的博科圣地组织，
08:00
in Somalia, al Shabaab -- and they all pay homage to Osama bin Laden.
134
464979
6113
索马里的青年党，他们都宣布效忠奥萨马本拉登。
08:06
But if you look closely,
135
471092
1934
但是如果你仔细研究，
08:08
they're not fighting a global jihad.
136
473026
2801
他们根本就不是所谓全球性圣战。
08:11
They're fighting battles over much narrower issues.
137
475827
4086
他们都是为更小的一些事情而战。
08:15
Usually it has to do with ethnicity or race or sectarianism,
138
479913
4369
通常都和民族，种族或教派之争相关，
08:20
or it's a power struggle.
139
484282
1192
或者仅仅是权力斗争。
08:21
More often than not, it's a power struggle
140
485474
1840
通常都是一个国家，
08:23
in one country, or even a small region within one country.
141
487314
3596
甚至是某国局部地区的权力斗争。
08:26
Occasionally they will go across a border,
142
490910
2964
有时他们也会跨越国境，
08:29
from Iraq to Syria, from Mali to Algeria,
143
493874
6279
从伊拉克到叙利亚，从马里到阿尔及利亚，
08:36
from Somalia to Kenya, but they're not fighting
144
500153
1880
从索马里到肯尼亚，他们并不是
08:37
a global jihad against some far enemy.
145
502033
5041
为反对远方的敌人而进行的圣战。
08:42
But that doesn't mean
146
507074
3087
但是这并不意味着
08:46
that we can relax.
147
510161
2327
我们可以放松
08:48
I was in Yemen recently, where -- it's the home
148
512488
2251
最近我在也门，在那里
08:50
of the last al Qaeda franchise
149
514739
3311
基地组织最后的分支
08:53
that still aspires to attack America, attack the West.
150
518050
4112
仍然叫嚣着要袭击美国，袭击西方。
08:58
It's old school al Qaeda.
151
522162
2223
他们是基地组织的残余。
09:00
You may remember these guys.
152
524385
1187
你们也许记得这些家伙。
09:01
They are the ones who tried to send the underwear bomber here,
153
525572
2681
他们是那些试图在这里发动人体爆炸那些人，
09:04
and they were using the Internet to try and instigate
154
528253
2949
他们利用互联网试图在美国的穆斯林中
09:07
violence among American Muslims.
155
531202
2840
煽动暴力。
09:09
But they have been distracted recently.
156
534042
1340
但是他们最近已经是散兵游勇。
09:11
Last year, they took control over a portion of southern Yemen,
157
535382
2707
去年，他们控制了南也门的部分地区，
09:13
and ran it, Taliban-style.
158
538089
2757
并用塔利班的方式进行统治。
09:16
And then the Yemeni military got its act together,
159
540846
2799
也门军方采取行动，
09:19
and ordinary people rose up against these guys
160
543645
3317
普通群众奋起反抗这些人
09:22
and drove them out, and since then, most of their activities,
161
546962
3286
并且把他们赶走，自此，他们他们大部分的活动，
09:26
most of their attacks have been directed at Yemenis.
162
550248
4201
大部分的袭击都是针对也门人策划。
09:30
So I think we've come to a point now where we can say
163
554449
4041
我想我们现在可以得出一个结论
09:34
that, just like all politics, all jihad is local.
164
558490
3496
就是，和所有的政治一样，圣战也是地区性的事情。
09:37
But that's still not reason for us to disengage,
165
561986
4472
但是，这仍然不能成为我们松一口气的原因，
09:42
because we've seen that movie before, in Afghanistan.
166
566458
3745
因为我们都看到了之前阿富汗的故事。
09:46
When those Mujahideen defeated the Soviet Union,
167
570203
3799
当那些穆斯林圣战游击队击败苏联，
09:49
we disengaged.
168
574002
2696
我们松了一口气。
09:52
And even before the fizz had gone out of our celebratory champagne,
169
576698
7089
但是我们庆祝的香槟还没开始起泡的时候，
09:59
the Taliban had taken over in Kabul,
170
583787
2780
塔利班接管了喀布尔，
10:02
and we said, "Local jihad, not our problem."
171
586567
3914
我们说：“地区性的圣战，没我们什么事。”
10:06
And then the Taliban gave the keys of Kandahar
172
590481
2726
接着，塔利班将奥萨马本拉登
10:09
to Osama bin Laden. He made it our problem.
173
593207
2536
迎进坎大哈。我们的麻烦就来了。
10:11
Local jihad, if you ignore it, becomes global jihad again.
174
595743
6281
地区性圣战，如果我们忽视的话，就会再次演变成全球性圣战。
10:17
The good news is that it doesn't have to be.
175
602024
3607
好在这个不会变成现实。
10:21
We know how to fight it now.
176
605631
2173
因为我们现在知道如何应对。
10:23
We have the tools. We have the knowhow,
177
607804
2771
我们有手段，我们有秘籍，
10:26
and we can take the lessons we've learned
178
610575
1587
我们能从以往应对
10:28
from the fight against global jihad, the victory against global jihad,
179
612162
3901
和战胜全球性圣战中学习到很多，
10:31
and apply those to local jihad.
180
616063
3480
并将之应用于地区性圣战。
10:35
What are those lessons? We know who killed bin Laden:
181
619543
4792
我们的学到了什么？我们知道谁杀了本拉登：
10:40
SEAL Team Six.
182
624335
1935
海报突击队第六小队。
10:42
Do we know, do we understand, who killed bin Ladenism?
183
626270
4462
我们知道，或者了解是谁清除了拉登主义吗？
10:46
Who ended the global jihad?
184
630732
3363
谁终结了全球性的圣战？
10:49
There lie the answers to the solution to local jihad.
185
634095
3371
解决地区性圣战的方法就在这些答案中。
10:53
Who killed bin Ladenism? Let's start with bin Laden himself.
186
637466
4278
谁清除了拉登主义？我们从本拉登本人开始吧。
10:57
He probably thought 9/11 was his greatest achievement.
187
641744
2391
他也许认为911是他最伟大的成就。
11:00
In reality, it was the beginning of the end for him.
188
644135
4152
实际上，这是他末日的开始。
11:04
He killed 3,000 innocent people, and that filled
189
648287
2872
他剥夺了3000名无辜的生命，让穆斯林世界
11:07
the Muslim world with horror and revulsion,
190
651159
4184
充满了恐怖和反感，
11:11
and what that meant was that his idea of jihad
191
655343
3193
这也就意味着他的圣战理念
11:14
could never become mainstream.
192
658536
1579
永远都不会成为主流。
11:16
He condemned himself to operating on the lunatic fringes
193
660115
3879
他承认自己是本族群的
11:19
of his own community.
194
663994
4061
极端份子。
11:23
9/11 didn't empower him; it doomed him.
195
668055
5108
911并没有使他更强大，而是宣判了他的死亡。
11:29
Who killed bin Ladenism? Abu Musab al-Zarqawi killed it.
196
673163
4818
谁清除了拉登主义？是阿布.穆萨德.阿尔-扎卡维。
11:33
He was the especially sadistic head of al Qaeda in Iraq
197
677981
3193
他是伊拉克基地组织的狂人领袖，
11:37
who sent hundreds of suicide bombers to attack
198
681174
3321
他在伊拉克制造了数以百计的自杀式爆炸
11:40
not Americans but Iraqis. Muslims. Sunni as well as Shiites.
199
684495
6472
伤害了伊拉克穆斯林，既有逊尼派也有什叶派，而不是美国人。
11:46
Any claim that al Qaeda had to being protectors of Islam
200
690967
3968
任何声称基地组织是伊斯兰对抗
11:50
against the Western crusaders
201
694935
2843
西方十字军的保护者说法
11:53
was drowned in the blood of Iraqi Muslims.
202
697778
5674
都是在牺牲伊拉克穆斯林的鲜血。
11:59
Who killed Osama bin Laden? The SEAL Team Six.
203
703452
3403
谁杀死了奥萨马本拉登？海豹突击队第六小队。
12:02
Who killed bin Ladenism? Al Jazeera did,
204
706855
2708
谁清除了拉登主义？是半岛电视台，
12:05
Al Jazeera and half a dozen other satellite news stations in Arabic,
205
709563
5060
是半岛电视台和其他六家阿拉伯的卫星新闻台，
12:10
because they circumvented the old, state-owned
206
714623
3017
因为他们完胜了许多这些国家中
12:13
television stations in a lot of these countries
207
717640
3495
的国有电视台，
12:17
which were designed to keep information from people.
208
721135
2992
这些国有电视台的目的就是为了对人民封锁消息。
12:20
Al Jazeera brought information to them, showed them
209
724127
3448
半岛电视台给他们带来信息，让他们看到
12:23
what was being said and done in the name of their religion,
210
727575
3397
以他们宗教的名义都说了些什么和做了些什么，
12:26
exposed the hypocrisy of Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda,
211
730972
5273
揭露了本拉登和基地组织的伪善面目，
12:32
and allowed them, gave them the information
212
736245
1906
并让他们，通过给他们足够信息，
12:34
that allowed them to come to their own conclusions.
213
738151
4493
让他们能自己得出结论。
12:38
Who killed bin Ladenism? The Arab Spring did,
214
742644
3336
谁清除了拉登主义？是阿拉伯之春，
12:41
because it showed a way for young Muslims
215
745980
3464
因为他们给年轻的穆斯林展现了一条
12:45
to bring about change
216
749444
3848
带来改变的道路
12:49
in a manner that Osama bin Laden, with his
217
753292
1785
这是奥萨马本拉登，在他有限想象力中，
12:50
limited imagination, could never have conceived.
218
755077
3663
无法设想出来的。
12:54
Who defeated the global jihad? The American military did,
219
758740
3398
谁战胜了全球性圣战？是美国的军队，
12:58
the American soldiers did, with their allies,
220
762138
2482
美国的战士，和他们的盟友，
13:00
fighting in faraway battlefields.
221
764620
5016
他们在遥远的战场作战。
13:05
And perhaps, a time will come when they get the rightful credit for it.
222
769636
5176
也许，终有一天，他们会被歌颂。
13:10
So all these factors, and many more besides,
223
774812
3057
所有的这些以及其他的一些因素，
13:13
we don't even fully understand some of them yet,
224
777869
3167
我们甚至目前还不能完全了解其中的一些，
13:16
these came together
225
781036
2833
加在一起
13:19
to defeat a monstrosity as big as bin Ladenism,
226
783869
3791
战胜了拉登主义这样的巨型怪兽，
13:23
the global jihad, you needed this group effort.
227
787660
3848
对付全球性圣战，你就需要这样的团队合作。
13:27
Now, not all of these things will work in local jihad.
228
791508
2080
现在，应对地区性圣战，并非所有这些还能起作用。
13:29
The American military is not going to march into Nigeria
229
793588
2922
美国没打算出兵尼日利亚
13:32
to take on Boko Haram,
230
796510
2609
来对抗博科圣地组织，
13:35
and it's unlikely that SEAL Team Six will rappel
231
799119
1937
看来也不会有海豹突击队第六小队破门而入
13:36
into the homes of al Shabaab's leaders and take them out.
232
801056
4534
力擒青年军的首领。
13:41
But many of these other factors that were in play
233
805590
3554
但是某些其他因素
13:45
are now even stronger than before. Half the work is already done.
234
809144
5874
却比以前更强大。很多工作已经完成过半。
13:50
We don't have to reinvent the wheel.
235
815018
3021
我们不需要另起炉灶。
13:53
The notion of violent jihad in which more Muslims are killed
236
818039
3471
那种让更多穆斯林被杀的暴力圣战的理念
13:57
than any other kind of people is already thoroughly discredited.
237
821510
3576
不再被人相信。
14:00
We don't have to go back to that.
238
825086
3616
我们不需要回到起点。
14:04
Satellite television and the Internet are informing
239
828702
4034
卫星电视和互联网让更多的年轻穆斯林
14:08
and empowering young Muslims in exciting new ways.
240
832736
4387
通过崭新的途径获取信息，获得力量。
14:13
And the Arab Spring has produced governments,
241
837123
2625
阿拉伯之春之后诞生了许多政府，
14:15
many of them Islamist governments,
242
839748
3104
许多伊斯兰政府，
14:18
who know that, for their own self-preservation,
243
842852
2965
他们知道，出于自我保护，
14:21
they need to take on the extremists in their midsts.
244
845817
5910
他们要反对内部的极端分子。
14:27
We don't need to persuade them, but we do need to help them,
245
851727
2855
我们不必游说他们，但是我们需要帮助他们，
14:30
because they haven't really come to this place before.
246
854582
5246
因为他们没有足够的经验。
14:35
The good news, again, is that a lot of the things they need
247
859828
3754
再说一遍，好消息是他们需要的许多东西
14:39
we already have, and we are very good at giving:
248
863582
2799
已经有，我们乐意奉送：
14:42
economic assistance, not just money, but expertise,
249
866381
3923
经济援助，不仅仅是钱，而且包括专业知识，
14:46
technology, knowhow,
250
870304
2637
技术，诀窍，
14:48
private investment, fair terms of trade,
251
872941
4038
私人投资，公平贸易，
14:52
medicine, education, technical support for training
252
876979
4210
医药，教育，以及能让提高警察能力的训练
14:57
for their police forces to become more effective,
253
881189
3091
方面的技术支持，
15:00
for their anti-terror forces to become more efficient.
254
884280
4867
使他们的反恐力量更加高效。
15:05
We've got plenty of these things.
255
889147
1414
我们有足够的这些东西。
15:06
Some of the other things that they need
256
890561
2293
他们需要的其他东西
15:08
we're not very good at giving. Maybe nobody is.
257
892854
3455
我们无法给予。也许没人能给。
15:12
Time, patience, subtlety, understanding --
258
896309
5197
时间，耐心，细致，理解，
15:17
these are harder to give.
259
901506
2042
这些更难给予。
15:19
I live in New York now. Just this week,
260
903548
2377
我现在住在纽约。就在这周，
15:21
posters have gone up in subway stations in New York
261
905925
2538
纽约地铁站的海报刚贴出来，
15:24
that describe jihad as savage.
262
908463
5726
海报仍然把圣战描述为残忍的东西。
15:30
But in all the many years that I have covered the Middle East,
263
914189
4353
但是在中东往来这么多年，
15:34
I have never been as optimistic as I am today
264
918542
3232
我从来没有如现在这般乐观，
15:37
that the gap between the Muslim world and the West
265
921774
3663
穆斯林和西方世界的鸿沟
15:41
is narrowing fast,
266
925437
2624
正在迅速缩小，
15:43
and one of the many reasons for my optimism
267
928061
1673
我之所以这么乐观的原因之一
15:45
is that, because I know there are millions,
268
929734
3312
就是我知道数以百万计的人，
15:48
hundreds of millions of people, Muslims like that old imam
269
933046
3823
数以亿计的人，就像突尼斯那位阿訇老人
15:52
in Tunis, who are reclaiming this word
270
936869
6742
这样的穆斯林，正在让这个词
15:59
and restoring to its original, beautiful purpose.
271
943611
5348
回归本源，回归美好的目标。
16:04
Bin Laden is dead. Bin Ladenism has been defeated.
272
948959
2616
本拉登死了，拉登主义被击败了。
16:07
His definition of jihad can now be expunged.
273
951575
4381
他对圣战的定义现在可以被抹去。
16:11
To that jihad we can say, "Goodbye. Good riddance."
274
955956
4541
对于这样的圣战，我们可以说：“再见了，谢天谢地！”
16:16
To the real jihad we can say, "Welcome back. Good luck."
275
960497
6534
对真正的圣战，我们可以说“欢迎回来，祝你好运！”
16:22
Thank you. (Applause)
276
967031
3632
谢谢。（鼓掌）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Bobby Ghosh - EditorBobby Ghosh is the Managing Editor at Quartz.
Why you should listen
Bobby Ghosh was the longest serving print journalist in Iraq until he left in 2007 to become Time's World Editor. Formerly an editor-at-large for Time, his work encompasses his broad interests, from restaurant reviews to an extended interview with Egyptian president Mohammad Morsi for his latest cover story. He recently went on patrol in Yemen to view what many hope is the end of the transnational al-Qaeda movement. Ghosh is now the Managing Editor of Quartz.
To explore more of the ideas in Ghosh's talk, read his recent essay for Time Worldwide: "11 Years After 9/11, the Holy World War Is Over and All Jihad is Local" >>
Bobby Ghosh | Speaker | TED.com