EG 2007
Ian Dunbar: Dog-friendly dog training
伊恩．鄧巴：對狗狗友善的訓練方式
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伊恩．鄧巴以狗狗訓練師的身份在2007年EG研討會上發表演說，他要我們從愛狗的眼光看這這個世界，藉由瞭解竉物的觀點，我們即可建立竉物對我們的愛與信任，他的演說還涵蓋了動物以外的世界，引起聽眾的共鳴。
Ian Dunbar - Animal behaviorist
Veterinarian, dog trainer and animal behaviorist Ian Dunbar understands our pets' point of view. By training dog owners in proper conduct (as much as he trains the dogs themselves), he hopes to encourage better relationships with dogs -- not to mention their friends and children, too. Full bio
Veterinarian, dog trainer and animal behaviorist Ian Dunbar understands our pets' point of view. By training dog owners in proper conduct (as much as he trains the dogs themselves), he hopes to encourage better relationships with dogs -- not to mention their friends and children, too. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
Dogs have interests.
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狗狗有自己喜歡的東西。
00:18
They have interest sniffing each other, chasing squirrels.
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他們喜歡嗅別的狗，也喜歡追松鼠。
00:24
And if we don't make that a reward in training, that will be a distraction.
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如果我們不在訓練中加入這些當成獎勵，狗狗就會分心。
00:29
It's always sort of struck me as really a scary thought
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我總覺得有些飼主的行為很恐怖，
00:34
that if you see a dog in a park, and the owner is calling it,
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就是你經常會在公園裡，看到飼主呼喚他的狗，
00:38
and the owner says, you know, "Puppy, come here, come here,"
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叫著：「狗狗，過來這裡，過來！」
00:41
and the dog thinks, "Hmm, interesting.
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狗狗會想：「嗯，還滿好玩的...
00:44
I'm sniffing this other dog's rear end, the owner's calling."
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我想嗅其他狗的屁股，但是主人在叫我...
00:48
It's a difficult choice, right?
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好難的決定啊...」對不對？
00:50
Rear end, owner. Rear end wins.
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屁股、主人..屁股贏了。
00:52
I mean, you lose.
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我是說，你輸了。
00:54
You cannot compete with the environment,
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你不可能和環境對抗，
00:57
if you have an adolescent dog's brain.
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尤其你的狗狗正值青春壯年。
00:59
So, when we train, we're always trying to take into account
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所以，當我們進行訓練的時候，我們永遠
01:03
the dog's point of view.
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必須以狗狗的角度看事情。
01:05
Now, I'm here largely because
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我來這裡主要是因為
01:07
there's kind of a rift in dog training at the moment
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目前的狗狗訓練有問題--
01:10
that -- on one side, we have people who think that you train a dog,
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一方面，有人認為在訓練狗狗的時候，
01:14
number one, by making up rules, human rules.
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第一件事是為狗狗設立規則，也就是人類的規則。
01:18
We don't take the dog's point of view into account.
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我們完全沒有想到狗狗的看法。
01:20
So the human says, "You're going to act this way, damn it.
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人類會說：「你要這樣做，該死！
01:23
We're going to force you to act against your will, to bend to our will."
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我們會強迫你做出違反你意願的事，要照我們的想法做。」
01:27
Then, number two, we keep these rules a secret from the dog.
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然後，第二件事--我們不告訴狗狗這些規則是什麼。
01:30
And then number three, now we can punish the dog
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第三件事--只要狗狗違反了規定，
01:33
for breaking rules he didn't even know existed.
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我們就可以處罰狗狗，雖然狗狗完全不知道規則是什麼。
01:36
So you get a little puppy, he comes. His only crime is he grew.
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所以當你養了一隻小狗--他唯一的罪過就是長大。
01:40
When he was a little puppy, he puts his paws on your leg --
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當他還是一隻小狗的時候，他會把手掌放在你的腳上--
01:43
you know, isn't that nice?
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你覺得那很棒，不是嗎？
01:45
And you go, "Oh, there's a good boy."
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你會說：「噢，真是隻乖狗狗。」
01:47
You bend down, you pat him -- you reward him for jumping up.
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你彎下身，摸摸他--你在獎勵他跳上來。
01:51
His one mistake is he's a Tibetan mastiff, and a few months later,
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錯誤就在於他是一隻西藏獒犬，幾個月之後，
01:55
he weighs, you know, 80 pounds.
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他變重了，重達80磅。
01:58
Every time he jumps up, he gets all sorts of abuse.
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每次只要他一跳起來，他就會受到各種處罰。
02:01
I mean, it is really very, very scary the abuse that dogs get.
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我是說，這些處罰真的都很嚇人。
02:06
So, this whole dominance issue -- number one,
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這是地位的問題--第一，
02:10
what we get in dog training is this Mickey-Mouse interpretation
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在對狗狗訓練的時候，我們常將
02:13
of a very complicated social system.
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非常複雜的社會階級問題簡化，
02:16
And they take this stuff seriously.
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但是狗狗卻很重視社會階級。
02:18
Male dogs are very serious about a hierarchy,
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公狗非常重視階級，
02:20
because it prevents physical fights.
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因為遵守階級制度可以避免不必要的肢體衝突。
02:23
Of course, female dogs, bitches, on the other hand,
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當然，母狗在另一方面
02:26
have several bitch amendments to male hierarchical rule.
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也有母狗自己的階級制度。
02:29
The number one is, "I have it, you don't."
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最明顯的是：「我有，你沒有。」
02:31
And what you will find is a very, very low-ranking bitch
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你會發現，最低階層的母狗
02:35
will quite easily keep a bone away from a high-ranking male.
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會帶著骨頭離最高階層的公狗遠遠的。
02:39
So, we get in dog training this notion of dominances,
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所以，我們在訓練狗狗的時候要注意到階級地位，
02:42
or of the alpha dog. I'm sure that you've heard this.
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或是最強勢的狗--我相信你們都聽過這個理論。
02:45
Dogs get so abused.
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狗狗常常受到虐待。
02:47
Dogs, horses and humans --
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狗狗、馬和人類--
02:49
these are the three species which are so abused in life.
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這三種生物都常受到虐待，
02:52
And the reason is built into their behavior --
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原因是他們的行為
02:54
is to always come back and apologize.
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都已經被塑造成就算被虐待，還是會跑回來說抱歉。
02:57
Like, "Oh, I'm sorry you had to beat me. I'm really sorry, yes, it's my fault."
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就像「噢，很抱歉你得打我，我真的很對不起，對，全是我的錯。」
03:00
They are just so beatable,
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他們表現得很欠打，
03:02
and that's why they get beaten.
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所以才會被打。
03:04
The poor puppy jumps up, you open the dog book, what does it say?
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可憐的小狗跳起來了，你看看馴狗手冊，上面怎麼說？
03:09
"Hold his front paws, squeeze his front paws,
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「握住他的前腳，捏他的前腳，
03:11
stamp on his hind feet, squirt him in the face with lemon juice,
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踩他的後腳，將水槍注入檸檬汁射他的臉，
03:15
hit him on the head with a rolled-up newspaper,
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把報紙捲起來打他的頭，
03:17
knee him in the chest, flip him over backwards."
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用膝蓋頂他的胸口，把他向後丟出去。」
03:19
Because he grew?
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只因為他長大了嗎？
03:21
And because he's performing a behavior you've trained him to do?
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只因為他做了一個你以前訓練他做的動作嗎？
03:24
This is insanity.
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這簡直是瘋了！
03:27
I ask owners, "Well, how would you like the dog to greet you?"
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我問主人：「嗯，你希望狗狗怎麼迎接你？」
03:30
And people say, "Well, I don't know, to sit, I guess."
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主人說：「我不知道耶...就坐下好了。」
03:33
I said, "Let's teach him to sit."
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我說：「我們來教他坐下。」
03:35
And then we give him a reason for sitting.
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接著我們就給狗狗坐下的理由。
03:39
Because the first stage
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由於第一階段
03:42
is basically teaching a dog ESL.
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是要教狗狗學會英語，
03:45
I could speak to you and say, "Laytay-chai, paisey, paisey."
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我可以對你們說：「哩得菜，拍洗，拍洗。」
03:50
Go on, something should happen now.
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快點，你們要照我說的做啊...
03:52
Why aren't you responding? Oh, you don't speak Swahili.
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為什麼你們不照著做？噢，原來你們不會說非洲話啊...
03:55
Well, I've got news for you.
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好，那我得告訴你們，
03:57
The dog doesn't speak English, or American, or Spanish, or French.
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狗狗也不會說英語、美語、西班牙語或法語，
04:02
So the first stage in training is to teach the dog ESL,
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所以第一個階段就是要教狗狗學會英語--
04:05
English as a second language.
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把英語當成第二種語言。
04:07
And that's how we use the food lure in the hand,
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我們會把食物藏在手裡引誘狗狗，
04:09
and we use food because we're dealing with owners.
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我們用食物來教狗狗是為了讓飼主學習，
04:12
My wife doesn't need food -- she's a great trainer,
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我太太就不需要用食物，她是很棒的馴狗師，
04:14
much better than I am.
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比我厲害多了。
04:15
I don't need food, but the average owner says,
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我也不需要食物，但是一般的飼主會說：
04:18
"Puppy, sit."
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「狗狗，坐下。」
04:20
Or they go, "Sit, sit, sit."
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或是說：「坐下，坐下，坐下。」
04:22
They're making a hand signal in front of the dog's rectum for some reason,
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不知道為了什麼，他們的手勢總是指在小狗的腸子前面，
04:25
like the dog has a third eye there -- it's insane.
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好像小狗有第三隻眼睛似的--真是瘋了！
04:28
You know, "Sit, sit."
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就像：「坐下，坐下。」
04:30
No, we go, "Puppy, sit" -- boom, it's got it in six to 10 trials.
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不對，應該要這樣：「小狗，坐下。」碰！只要試六到十次小狗就學會了。
04:34
Then we phase out the food as a lure,
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然後我們捨棄食物做為誘餌，
04:36
and now the dog knows that "sit" means sit,
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因為狗狗已經知道「坐下」代表的意義，
04:38
and you can actually communicate to a dog
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這才是真正地以英語
04:40
in a perfectly constructed English sentence.
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和狗狗進行溝通。
04:42
"Phoenix, come here, take this, and go to Jamie, please."
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「菲妮，過來，拿這個，去找傑米，拜託你了。」
04:46
And I've taught her "Phoenix," "come here," "take this," "go to"
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因為我有教過她「菲妮」、「過來」、「拿這個」、「去找」，
04:49
and the name of my son, "Jamie."
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還有我兒子的名字「傑米」，
04:51
And the dog can take a note,
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所以狗狗就會拿著這張紙條，
04:53
and I've got my own little search-and-rescue dog.
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就像我個人的小型搜救犬一樣，
04:55
He'll find Jamie wherever he is, you know,
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不論傑米在哪裡，她都會找到他，
04:57
wherever kids are, crushing rocks by a stream or something,
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不管小孩在哪裡，在院子裡搞破壞也好，
04:59
and take him a little message that says,
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她都會給他這張小紙條：
05:01
"Hey, dinner's ready. Come in for dinner."
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「嘿，晚餐好了，進來吃飯。」
05:04
So, at this point, the dog knows what we want it to do.
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在那個時點上，狗狗知道我們要牠做什麼，
05:07
Will it do it?
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牠會不會去做？
05:09
Not necessarily, no.
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不一定哦...
05:11
As I said, if he's in the park and there's a rear end to sniff,
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就像我說的，如果牠在公園裡玩，還有別的狗屁股可以嗅，
05:14
why come to the owner?
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會什麼要回來找主人？
05:16
The dog lives with you, the dog can get you any time.
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牠和你住在一起，隨時都看得到你，
05:19
The dog can sniff your butt, if you like, when he wants to.
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想要的話，也可以嗅你的屁股，只要你不介意；
05:22
At the moment, he's in the park, and you are competing
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但是在公園裡，你要和其他的氣味競爭，
05:24
with smells, and other dogs, and squirrels.
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還有其他的狗狗，還有松鼠。
05:27
So the second stage in training is to teach the dog to want to do
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所以第二階段是要教狗狗自願地
05:31
what we want him to do, and this is very easy.
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做我們要他做的事，這非常簡單，
05:34
We use the Premack principle.
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只要採用普立麥原則就可以做到。
05:36
Basically, we follow a low-frequency behavior --
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基本上，我們將出現頻率很低的行為--
05:38
one the dog doesn't want to do --
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就是狗狗不喜歡做的事--
05:40
by a high-frequency behavior, commonly known as a behavior problem,
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排在出現頻率很高的行為之前，這些行為我們有時稱為「問題行為」
05:44
or a dog hobby -- something the dog does like to do.
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或是「狗狗的嗜好」--也就是狗狗喜歡做的事。
05:48
That will then become a reward for the lower-frequency behavior.
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這樣的安排會鼓勵狗狗去做原本不喜歡做的事。
05:51
So we go, "sit," on the couch; "sit," tummy-rub; "sit,"
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我說「坐下」，讓狗躺在沙發上；「坐下」，摸摸他的肚子；「坐下」，
05:55
look, I throw a tennis ball; "sit," say hello to that other dog.
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看，我把網球丟出去；「坐下」，讓狗狗和其他狗打招呼。
05:59
Yes, we put "sniff butt" on queue.
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對，我們把「嗅屁股」放在最後，
06:01
"Sit," sniff butt.
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「坐下」，讓狗嗅別的狗的屁股。
06:03
So now all of these distractions that worked against training
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原來在訓練過程會造成分心的動作，
06:07
now become rewards that work for training.
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現在都成了幫助訓練的獎勵。
06:10
And what we're doing, in essence, is we're teaching the dog, kind of like --
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現在我們所做的，本質上有點像在教狗狗--
06:15
we're letting the dog think that the dog is training us.
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我們讓狗狗以為是狗狗在訓練我們。
06:18
And I can imagine this dog, you know,
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我可以想像這隻狗
06:20
speaking through the fence to, say, an Akita,
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隔著籬笆對一隻秋田犬說：
06:22
saying, "Wow, my owners, they are so incredibly easy to train.
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「哇，我的主人，他們真的很容易訓練，
06:26
They're like Golden Retrievers.
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就像黃金獵犬一樣，
06:28
All I have to do is sit, and they do everything.
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我只要坐下，來他們就會做好所有的事。
06:30
They open doors, they drive my car, they massage me,
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他們會幫我開門、幫我開車、幫我按摩、
06:34
they will throw tennis balls,
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丟網球給我玩，
06:36
they will cook for me and serve the food.
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還會煮飯給我吃。
06:38
It's like, if I just sit, that's my command.
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就好像只要我一坐下，他們就會聽我的命令，
06:41
Then I have my own personal doorman,
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我像有自己的門房、
06:43
chauffeur, masseuse, chef and waiter."
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司機、按摩師、廚師和服務生一樣。」
06:47
And now the dog's really happy.
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狗狗可真的得意了。
06:49
And this, to me, is always what training is.
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這對我來說，就是訓練，
06:51
So we really motivate the dog to want to do it,
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我們讓狗狗自願做我們要他做的事，
06:54
such that the need for punishment seldom comes up.
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這樣就不會需要處罰狗狗了。
06:59
Now we move to phase three, when now --
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接下來是第三階段，
07:02
there's times, you know, when daddy knows best.
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你知道，有時候就是得用「老爸懂得比你多」這一招。
07:04
And I have a little sign on my fridge, and it says,
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我在冰箱上貼了一張小紙條，上面寫：
07:07
"Because I'm the daddy, that's why."
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「因為我是你老爸，就是這樣！」
07:09
Sorry, no more explanation. "I'm the daddy, you're not. Sit."
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對不起，我不想解釋那麼多--「我是老爸，你不是，坐下！」
07:13
And there's times, for example,
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舉例來說，有時候
07:15
if my son's friends leave the door open,
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我兒子的朋友忘了把門關上，
07:18
the dogs have to know you don't step across this line.
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狗狗就必須知道不能跨越那條線，
07:22
This is a life-or-death thing.
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那是攸關生死的事情。
07:24
You leave this, the sanctity of your house,
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你只要離開這棟神聖的房子，
07:27
and you could be hit on the street.
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就可能在街上被車子撞倒。
07:29
So some things we have to let the dog know,
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所以有些事情我們必須清楚地讓狗狗知道，
07:31
"You mustn't do this."
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「你不可以這樣做。」
07:33
And so we have to enforce, but without force.
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我們必須加強狗狗的觀念，但不要使用暴力。
07:38
People here get very confused about what a punishment is.
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人們常常搞不清楚處罰的定義是什麼，
07:42
They think a punishment is something nasty.
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他們以為處罰都是很暴力的，
07:44
I bet a lot of you do, right?
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我猜你們都這樣想，對不對？
07:46
You think it's something painful, or scary, or nasty.
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你們以為處罰會很痛、很恐怖，還很暴力。
07:49
It doesn't have to be.
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其實不必如此。
07:51
There's several definitions of what a punishment is,
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處罰的定義有很多種，
07:54
but one definition, the most popular, is:
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最普遍的定義是--
07:56
a punishment is a stimulus that reduces the immediately preceding behavior,
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處罰是一種手段，可以減少先前不正確的行為
08:01
such that it's less likely to occur in the future.
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在未來發生的機率。
08:05
It does not have to be nasty, scary or painful.
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處罰不一定要很暴力、很恐怖，或是很痛苦。
08:10
And I would say, if it doesn't have to be, then maybe it shouldn't be.
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我認為，如果不一定要這樣，那就根本不需要這樣。
08:15
I was working with a very dangerous dog about a year ago.
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一年前我曾訓練過一隻非常危險的狗狗--
08:18
And this was a dog that put both his owners in hospital,
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他把他的二個主人都送到醫院去了，
08:21
plus the brother-in-law, plus the child.
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外加主人的姐夫，還有小孩。
08:23
And I only agreed to work with it if they promised it would stay in their house,
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我同意訓練那隻狗，但我要求他們得讓狗狗待在屋子裡，
08:26
and they never took it outside.
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他們照辦了，沒有帶他出門。
08:28
The dog is actually euthanized now,
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那隻狗現在已經被安樂死了，
08:30
but this was a dog I worked with for a while.
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但我曾經訓練過他一陣子。
08:32
A lot of the aggression happened around the kitchen,
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很多狗狗的攻擊事件發生在廚房裡，
08:35
so while I was there -- this was on the fourth visit --
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所以當我第四次拜訪這戶人家時，
08:38
we did a four and a half hour down-stay, with the dog on his mat.
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我們做了一次長達四個半鐘頭的訓練，讓狗狗待在自己的墊子上。
08:41
And he was kept there by the owner's calm insistence.
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主人以平和的毅力，讓狗狗待在墊子上。
08:46
When the dog would try to leave the mat,
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當狗狗想要離開墊子時，
08:48
she would say, "Rover, on the mat, on the mat, on the mat."
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她會說：「羅夫，待在墊子上，待在墊子上，待在墊子上。」
08:52
The dog broke his down-stay 22 times in four and a half hours, while she cooked dinner,
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狗狗在那四個半小時裡，曾經有22次嚐試要站起來，因為主人在煮晚餐，
08:57
because we had a lot of aggression related towards food.
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所以狗狗常會衝向食物，
09:01
The breaks got fewer and fewer.
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但是衝動愈來愈少，
09:03
You see, the punishment was working.
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這就是處罰發揮了效果。
09:06
The behavior problem was going away.
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問題行為不見了，
09:08
She never raised her voice.
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主人也不必再提高音量；
09:10
If she did, she would have got bitten.
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如果主人大聲吼叫，她可能又會被咬，
09:13
It's not a good dog you shout at.
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你不能對這種狗狗吼叫。
09:15
And a lot of my friends train really neat animals,
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我有許多朋友訓練的是很棒的動物--
09:18
grizzly bears -- if you've ever seen a grizzly bear
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灰棕熊，如果你曾在電視上
09:20
on the telly or in film, then it's a friend of mine who's trained it --
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或是電影裡看過灰棕熊，那就是我的朋友訓練的。
09:23
killer whales. I love it because it wires you up.
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還有殺人鯨--我很喜歡這種動物，它會繞著你游泳。
09:26
How are you going to reprimand a grizzly bear?
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你會怎麼訓斥一頭灰棕熊？
09:28
"Bad bear, bad bear!" Voom!
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「壞熊熊，壞熊熊！」砰！
09:30
Your head now is 100 yards away, sailing through the air, OK?
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你的頭會飛到天上，飛到100碼以外去，知道嗎？
09:35
This is crazy.
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這很恐怖。
09:37
So, where do we go from here?
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那我們該怎麼做？
09:39
We want a better way.
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我們要用一種更好的方式
09:41
Dogs deserve better.
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去對待狗狗。
09:43
But for me, the reason for this actually has to do with dogs.
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但對我來說，這樣做的原因和狗狗有關，
09:47
It has to do with watching people train puppies,
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和我觀察人們訓練狗狗有關，
09:50
and realizing they have horrendous interaction skills,
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我發覺人類的互動技巧很差，
09:55
horrendous relationship skills.
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建立關係的技巧也很差。
09:57
Not just with their puppy, but with the rest of the family at class.
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不只是和狗狗相處有問題，和其他家庭成員相處也有問題。
10:01
I mean, my all-time classic is another "come here" one.
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我舉另一個經典的「過來」案例來說明，
10:04
You see someone in the park -- and I'll cover my mic when I say this,
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你在公園會看到某人--我把麥克風遮起來，
10:07
because I don't want to wake you up -- and there's the owner in the park,
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因為我不想把你們吵醒--主人在公園裡，
10:10
and their dog's over here, and they say, "Rover, come here.
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而狗狗在這裡，然後主人說：「羅夫，過來。
10:12
Rover, come here. Rover, come here, you son of a bitch."
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羅夫，過來。羅夫，過來，你這婊子養的。」
10:16
The dog says, "I don't think so."
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狗狗會說：「我可不這麼想。」
10:18
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
10:19
I mean, who in their right mind
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我是說，有哪一個正常人
10:22
would think that a dog would want to approach them
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會認為在他們那樣叫喊之後，
10:25
when they're screaming like that?
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狗狗還會願意跑回來的？
10:27
Instead, the dog says, "I know that tone. I know that tone.
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狗狗反而會想：「哦，我記得那個聲音，我記得，
10:30
Previously, when I've approached, I've gotten punished there."
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上次我回到主人身邊，就被教訓了一頓。」
10:33
I was walking onto a plane --
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有一次我搭飛機--
10:35
this, for me, was a pivotal moment in my career,
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那是我職業生涯裡的一個關鍵時刻，
10:38
and it really cemented what I wanted to do
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那次的經驗讓我把我想做的事
10:40
with this whole puppy-training thing,
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與訓練狗狗結合在一起了--
10:42
the notion of how to teach puppies in a dog-friendly way
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我主張以對狗狗較友善的方式來訓練狗狗，
10:46
to want to do what we want to do, so we don't have to force them.
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讓他們去做我們要他們做的事，而不需要強迫他們去做。
10:49
You know, I puppy-train my child.
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你們知道嗎？我也是這樣訓練我的小孩。
10:52
And the seminal moment was, I was getting on a plane in Dallas,
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那個關鍵時刻發生在我在達拉斯搭飛機的時候，
10:55
and in row two was a father, I presume, and a young boy about five,
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第二排坐了一位父親，我自己猜想的，和一個年約五歲的男孩，
10:59
kicking the back of the chair.
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小男孩正在踢前座的椅背。
11:01
"Johnny, don't do that."
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「強尼，不要這樣。」
11:03
Kick, kick, kick.
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踢、踢、踢。
11:04
"Johnny, don't do that." Kick, kick, kick.
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「強尼，不要這樣。」踢、踢、踢。
11:06
I'm standing right here with my bag.
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我正好拿著行李站在旁邊，
11:08
The father leans over, grabs him like this and gives him ugly face.
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那個父親就彎身下去，抓住小男孩，給他一個恐怖的表情，
11:12
And ugly face is this --
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那個表情就像--
11:14
when you go face-to-face with a puppy or a child,
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當你和小孩或小狗面對面的時候，
11:17
you say, "What are you doing! Now stop it, stop it, stop it!"
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你說：「你在做什麼！現在停止，停止，停止！」
11:20
And I went, "Oh my God, do I do something?"
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然後我會想：「噢，天啊，我做了什麼不該做的事嗎？」
11:23
That child has lost everything --
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那個小孩失去了一切--
11:26
that one of the two people he can trust in this world
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他失去了這個世界上他可以信任的二個人的其中一人，
11:29
has absolutely pulled the rug from under his feet.
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那個人把毯子從他的腳下抽走，害他跌倒了。
11:32
And I thought, "Do I tell this jerk to quit it?"
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然後我想：「我該告訴這個混蛋不要這樣做嗎？」
11:34
I thought, "Ian, stay out of it, stay out of it, you know, walk on."
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我心裡的聲音說：「伊恩，不要管，不要管，走就是了。」
11:37
I walked to the back of the plane,
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我走到飛機的後半部，
11:39
I sat down, and a thought came to me.
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坐下，然後想到了一個念頭，
11:42
If that had been a dog, I would have laid him out.
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如果那是一隻狗，我會讓他乖乖躺平在地上；
11:44
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
11:45
If he had kicked a dog, I would have punched him out.
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如果那人敢踢狗狗，我會掌他個幾拳；
11:49
He kicked a child, grabs the child like this and I let it go.
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但他踢了個小孩，還把小孩抓住，我卻放過了他。
11:54
And this is what it's all about.
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這就是我要說的，
11:57
These relationship skills are so easy.
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我們所用來建立關係的技巧都太膚淺，
11:59
I mean, we as humans, our shallowness when we choose a life-mate
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我是說，我們身為人類，我們以膚淺的方式選擇伴侶，
12:04
based on the three Cs -- coat color, conformation, cuteness.
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只看三個「外」--外套顏色、外形和外表，
12:08
You know, kind of like a little robot.
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就有點像是機器人一樣。
12:10
This is how we go into a relationship, and it's hunky-dory for a year.
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這就是我們建立關係的方法，在第一年還好用得不得了。
12:13
And then, a little behavior problem comes up.
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接下來就開始出現一些小小的問題行為，
12:15
No different from the dog barking.
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和狗狗吠叫差不了多少，
12:17
The husband won't clear up his clothes,
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丈夫不肯收拾自己的衣物，
12:19
or the wife's always late for meetings, whatever it is, OK?
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或是太太總是遲到這一類的，對不對？
12:23
And it then starts, and we get into this thing,
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然後爭吵開始，我們陷入了紛爭，
12:27
and our personal feedback -- there's two things about it.
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我們的個人反應--有二種反應，
12:29
When you watch people interacting with animals or other people,
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當你觀察一個人和動物或其他人的互動時，
12:32
there is very little feedback, it's too infrequent.
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對方很少有反應，或根本不反應，
12:36
And when it happens, it's bad, it's nasty.
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一旦對方有反應，就是不好的反應，暴力行為就會出現。
12:39
You see it's especially in families, especially with spouses,
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這些行為尤其在家人、配偶、
12:44
especially with children, especially with parents.
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小孩和父母親身上特別明顯。
12:47
You see it especially in the workplace,
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在工作場合也觀察得到，
12:49
especially from boss to employee.
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尤其是主管對部屬的態度。
12:51
It's as if there's some schadenfreude there,
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這好像有點幸災樂禍--
12:54
that we actually take delight in people getting things wrong,
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當我們看到別人犯錯的時候，都會暗自竊喜，
12:57
so that we can then moan and groan and bitch at them.
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我們還會藉機咒罵那些犯錯的人。
13:02
And this, I would say, is the biggest human foible that we have.
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我會說，這是人類最大的缺點。
13:06
It really is.
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真的是這樣。
13:08
We take the good for granted, and we moan and groan at the bad.
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我們把好事視為理所當然，咒罵那些壞事。
13:11
And I think this whole notion of these skills should be taught.
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我認為我們應該教導這些技巧--
13:14
You know, calculus is wonderful.
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你知道，微積分很神奇，
13:16
When I was a kid, I was a calculus whiz.
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當我年輕的時候，我對微積分很著迷，
13:18
I don't understand a thing about it now, but I could do it as a kid.
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我現在完全看不懂微積分了，但我年輕的時候看得懂，
13:22
Geometry, fantastic. You know, quantum mechanics --
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幾何也很棒，還有量子機械學--
13:25
these are cool things.
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這些都很酷。
13:27
But they don't save marriages and they don't raise children.
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但這些學問拯救不了婚姻，也不能養育小孩。
13:31
And my look to the future is,
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我對未來的看法是，
13:33
and what I want to do with this doggy stuff, is to teach people
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如果我能把訓練狗狗的技巧應用在人身上，
13:36
that you know, your husband's just as easy to train.
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你就會知道你的丈夫其實很好訓練。
13:39
Probably easier -- if you got a Rottie -- much easier to train.
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可能比羅夫那隻狗更容易訓練。
13:44
Your kids are easy to train.
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你的小孩也很容易訓練，
13:46
All you've got to do is to watch them,
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你要做的就是去觀察他們，
13:48
to time-sample the behavior, and say, every five minutes,
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記錄他們的行為樣本，例如每五分鐘
13:50
you ask the question, "Is it good, or is it bad?"
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你就自問：「他這種表現是好還是不好？」
13:53
If it's good, say, "That was really neat, thank you."
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如果表現得不錯，就稱讚他們：「做得很棒，謝謝！」
13:56
That is such a powerful training technique.
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這是很有效的訓練方法，
13:58
This should be taught in schools.
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我們應該推廣到學校去，
14:00
Relationships -- how do you negotiate?
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關係本身就是一門學問--你怎麼協商？
14:02
How you do negotiate with your friend who wants your toy?
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如果有朋友要你的玩具，你怎麼協商？
14:05
You know, how to prepare you for your first relationship?
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還有，你該怎麼為第一段感情做準備？
14:08
How on earth about raising children?
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到底要怎麼教養小孩？
14:10
We think how we do it -- one night in bed, we're pregnant,
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當我們還在思考的時候，有一天我們就懷孕了，
14:12
and then we're raising the most important thing in life, a child.
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然後我們就開始養育生命中最重要的東西--小孩。
14:15
No, this is what should be taught -- the good living, the good habits,
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不對，我們應該要教的是：好的生活取決於好的習慣，
14:20
which are just as hard to break as bad habits.
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好習慣就像壞習慣一樣難以戒除。
14:24
So, that would be my wish to the future.
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這就是我對未來的願望。
14:26
Ah, damn, I wanted to end exactly on time,
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噢，該死，我希望能準時結束的，
14:28
but I got eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two --
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但我還有八、七、六、五、四、三、二--
14:34
so thank you very much. That's my talk, thank you.
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謝謝你們，這就是我的演說，謝謝！
14:36
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Ian Dunbar - Animal behavioristVeterinarian, dog trainer and animal behaviorist Ian Dunbar understands our pets' point of view. By training dog owners in proper conduct (as much as he trains the dogs themselves), he hopes to encourage better relationships with dogs -- not to mention their friends and children, too.
Why you should listen
We may call dogs man's best friend, but according to Dr. Ian Dunbar, humans often fail to reciprocate. Dunbar's decades of research on hierarchical social behavior and aggression in domestic animals truly give him a dog's-eye view of human beings' incomprehensible and spontaneous -- if involuntary -- cruelties.
Dunbar says we might break our unseemly, unflattering habits and usher in an "era of dog-friendly dog training" by coming to understand why dogs do what they do -- Is Fido misbehaving, or just being a dog? -- and the repercussions of our actions toward them. (We might foster better relationships with our fellow humans, too.) His Sirius Dog Training company focuses on training puppies to be playful, yet well-behaved. His second organization, Animalin, promotes games for dogs and puppies at an international level.
Dunbar has written numerous books, including How to Teach a New Dog Old Tricks and The Good Little Dog Book. He has also hosted several award-winning videotapes on puppy and dog training.
Ian Dunbar | Speaker | TED.com