TED2019
Jess Kutch: What productive conflict can offer a workplace
潔絲‧庫奇: 有效益之衝突在職場所展現的成效
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有什麼點子可以讓你的工作場所變更好嗎？勞工組織者以及 TED 研究會員潔絲‧庫奇告訴你如何付諸實行。在這場簡潔的演說中，她解釋了「有效益的衝突」──大家組織起來去挑戰和改變他們的工作生活，讓它變得更好──對於員工及僱主都是有益的。
Jess Kutch - Labor entrepreneur
TED Fellow Jess Kutch is the cofounder of Coworker.org, a nonprofit that helps people join together to improve their jobs and workplaces. Full bio
TED Fellow Jess Kutch is the cofounder of Coworker.org, a nonprofit that helps people join together to improve their jobs and workplaces. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I am a labor organizer,
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我是勞工組織者，
00:15
and in 2013, I cofounded
an organization called coworker.org
an organization called coworker.org
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2013 年，我與合夥人共創了
一個叫 coworker.org 的組織，
一個叫 coworker.org 的組織，
00:19
that uses technology
to help people join with coworkers
to help people join with coworkers
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用科技來協助人們與同事合作，
00:24
and organize for improvements
in the workplace.
in the workplace.
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組織起來一同改善工作環境。
00:27
Now, there are two kinds
of reactions to what I do.
of reactions to what I do.
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對於我的工作，
一般人通常會有兩種反應。
一般人通常會有兩種反應。
00:31
Actually, no, there are three.
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不，其實有三種。
00:33
The first is complete confusion
about what organizing is.
about what organizing is.
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第一種是對「組織」定義的全然困惑。
00:37
When my doctor asked
what I do and I told him,
what I do and I told him,
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我的醫生問過我是做什麼
工作的，我告訴他時，
工作的，我告訴他時，
00:39
he thought I meant organizing,
like, Marie Kondo-style.
like, Marie Kondo-style.
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他以為我指的是近藤麻理惠
（整理專家）做的那種組織。
（整理專家）做的那種組織。
00:43
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
00:44
He was like, "Oh, that's so great,
I could use some of that around here.
I could use some of that around here.
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他說：「喔，很好，
我這裡的確需要整理組織一下。
我這裡的確需要整理組織一下。
00:48
I would love to clean up
our patient files."
our patient files."
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我想整理一下病人的檔案。」
00:50
And I had to explain to him that no, no,
it's not that kind of organizing,
it's not that kind of organizing,
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我得向他解釋，不，不，
不是那種組織（整理），
不是那種組織（整理），
00:54
it's more like if you showed up
to work tomorrow
to work tomorrow
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比較像是：如果你明天來工作時，
00:57
and all the nurses in the office
had gotten together
had gotten together
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辦公室裡的所有護士集合起來
01:00
to ask for an across-the-board raise.
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要求全體加薪。
01:01
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
01:03
"Oh," he replied, and he got really quiet.
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他回了「喔」之後就安靜下來了。
01:06
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
01:07
Yeah, and that's
the second kind of reaction:
the second kind of reaction:
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是的，那是第二種反應：
01:10
the uncomfortable kind.
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不舒服的反應。
01:12
People usually withdraw
from the conversation
from the conversation
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大家通常會不想繼續談下去，
01:14
and find someone else to talk to.
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另外找人聊天。
01:17
Finally, there's the third reaction,
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最後，還有第三種反應，
01:19
the excited one,
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興奮的反應，
01:20
the, "Oh my God, yes! We need this!"
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「我的天！我們需要這個！」的反應。
01:23
And someone always proceeds
to tell me a story.
to tell me a story.
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總是有人會上前與我分享故事。
01:26
It's always a story about a job
or a coworker or a friend
or a coworker or a friend
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故事通常都是關於工作、同事
或朋友在工作上忍受了糟透的事。
01:30
who's enduring something awful at work.
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01:33
What I've noticed is that there is never
a neutral response to what I do.
a neutral response to what I do.
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我注意到大家對我的工作
都不會有很中庸的反應。
都不會有很中庸的反應。
01:37
You're either repelled by it,
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若不是很排斥，
01:39
or you're struck with
a lightning bolt of excitement.
a lightning bolt of excitement.
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就是會極度興奮。
01:43
So why does my work stir up
such strong reactions?
such strong reactions?
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所以，為什麼我的工作
會造成這些強烈的反應？
會造成這些強烈的反應？
01:47
My hunch is that it's about conflict.
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我直覺地認為和衝突有關。
01:50
If you have power in your workplace,
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如果你在工作職場上擁有權力，
01:52
maybe as a CEO
or a senior leader of some kind,
or a senior leader of some kind,
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也許你是執行長或資深主管之類的，
01:56
you're going to feel uncomfortable
with that power being challenged.
with that power being challenged.
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當你的權力被挑戰時，你會不舒服。
02:00
But if you lack power, or you know someone
who lacks it and needs it,
who lacks it and needs it,
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但如果你沒有權力，或你認識
某個沒有權力但很需要它的人，
某個沒有權力但很需要它的人，
02:04
you might grab me by the shoulders
and shake me, you're so pumped.
and shake me, you're so pumped.
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你可能會激動到
抓著我的肩膀一直搖我。
抓著我的肩膀一直搖我。
02:08
But really, we can all benefit
from understanding
from understanding
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但其實如果我們能了解到
職場中的衝突能帶來什麼樣的影響，
職場中的衝突能帶來什麼樣的影響，
02:12
what conflict can offer in our workplaces.
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我們都能從中受益。
02:15
The power imbalance
in our workplace is real,
in our workplace is real,
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職場中的權力失衡是真的，
02:17
and it's constantly changing.
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且它經常在改變。
02:19
Power moves between us,
depending on our roles and status.
depending on our roles and status.
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權力會依據我們的
角色和地位在彼此間移動。
角色和地位在彼此間移動。
02:24
Now, sometimes this can feel
like office politics, right?
like office politics, right?
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有時，這感覺好像
辦公室政治，對吧？
辦公室政治，對吧？
02:27
Which is never fun.
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這從來都不有趣。
02:29
But when we contest
for power thoughtfully
for power thoughtfully
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但當我們在爭取權益時
如能夠深思熟慮
如能夠深思熟慮
02:32
and together with our coworkers,
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並團結同事的力量共同參與，
02:34
it can be incredibly productive.
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就會產生不可思議的成效。
02:36
And it's that kind of productive conflict
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那就是今天我想要
和大家談的有效益的衝突，
和大家談的有效益的衝突，
02:38
that I want to talk
to you all about today,
to you all about today,
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可能會讓某些人不舒服的那種衝突。
02:40
the kind that can make
some of us uncomfortable.
some of us uncomfortable.
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02:43
Business leaders should embrace
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當員工和政策及決策產生衝突時，
02:44
when their workers conflict
with policies and decisions,
with policies and decisions,
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企業領導者應要能接納，
02:47
both for what it teaches us
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因為衝突不只能教我們一些事，
02:50
and for what it says about
our commitment to each other.
our commitment to each other.
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也能表現出我們對彼此的承諾。
02:53
So what do I mean by
"productive conflict"?
"productive conflict"?
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何謂「有效益的衝突」？
02:56
Well, let me tell you a story.
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讓我先說個故事。
02:58
In 2016, a store employee
for an outdoor retailer --
for an outdoor retailer --
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2016 年，有間戶外用品
零售店的店員——
零售店的店員——
03:02
I'll call her "Alex" --
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稱她為艾莉克斯——
03:04
Alex approached her boss
and asked for a raise.
and asked for a raise.
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艾莉克斯找她老闆要求加薪。
03:07
Now, she was told her pay
was fairly standard for her position
was fairly standard for her position
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她得到的答案是，以她的
職務來說，她的薪水合乎標準，
職務來說，她的薪水合乎標準，
03:10
and that her boss didn't even have
the authority to give such a raise.
the authority to give such a raise.
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且她的老闆並沒有權力幫她加薪。
03:14
And that was supposed to be
the end of the conversation.
the end of the conversation.
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對談應該就這樣結束了。
03:18
Unhappy with that answer,
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艾莉克斯對這個答案
感到不滿，回家後，
感到不滿，回家後，
03:19
Alex went home, and she decided
to create a campaign on coworker.org,
to create a campaign on coworker.org,
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她決定在 coworker.org 上
發起一個活動，
發起一個活動，
03:23
asking the corporate office
to give raises to store employees.
to give raises to store employees.
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要求公司總部給店員加薪。
03:27
Within days, employees
from around the country
from around the country
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幾天之內，全國各地的員工
03:30
began joining Alex's effort
and sharing their own stories
and sharing their own stories
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開始加入艾莉克斯的活動，
分享他們自己收入的故事——
03:33
about what they were earning --
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03:34
11, 12 dollars an hour --
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十一或十二美金的時薪——
03:36
and how that wage
was impacting their lives.
was impacting their lives.
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以及那樣的薪水如何影響他們的生活。
03:38
Some even shared
that they had quit recently
that they had quit recently
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還有人分享說他們最近
03:41
to work for competitors who paid more.
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為了更高的薪水
跳槽到競爭對手的公司工作。
跳槽到競爭對手的公司工作。
03:44
But here's the thing: they also shared
that they didn't want to quit,
that they didn't want to quit,
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但重點來了：他們也
分享說他們不想辭職，
分享說他們不想辭職，
03:47
they liked their job, they believed
in the company's mission,
in the company's mission,
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他們喜歡他們的工作，
相信公司的使命，
相信公司的使命，
03:50
but for them, the pay issue
was a growing problem in their work lives.
was a growing problem in their work lives.
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但，對他們來說，薪水問題
對他們工作生活的影響越來越大。
對他們工作生活的影響越來越大。
03:55
Well, after weeks of this groundswell
of employee activism,
of employee activism,
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在員工行動主義迅速發展了幾週之後，
04:00
the company decided to raise wages
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公司決定要加薪，
04:02
by five to 15 percent
in cities across the country.
in cities across the country.
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幅度為 5% 至 15%，
全國各城市都一起實施。
全國各城市都一起實施。
04:05
And that's what I mean
by productive conflict:
by productive conflict:
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那就是我所謂有效益的衝突：
04:08
pushing up against the things
that aren't working for us
that aren't working for us
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當走頭無路時，
要對抗對我們而言行不通的事情。
04:10
when there exists no other path forward.
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04:13
The other thing I learned
in doing this work
in doing this work
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從這項工作我還學到另一件事，
04:16
is that people engage
in productive conflict
in productive conflict
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當員工在乎自己的工作和同事時，
04:18
when they care about their jobs
and their coworkers.
and their coworkers.
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他們就會參與有效益的衝突。
04:21
Now, that surprised me at first.
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一開始，這點讓我很驚訝。
04:24
I expected the worst jobs,
the worst workplaces,
the worst workplaces,
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我本來以為我們的網站上
大部分的員工行動主義
大部分的員工行動主義
04:26
to have the most
employee activism on our site,
employee activism on our site,
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都會和最糟糕的工作、
最糟糕的工作環境有關，
最糟糕的工作環境有關，
04:29
but the opposite is often true.
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但結果卻相反。
04:32
When we come together,
we can accomplish great things.
we can accomplish great things.
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當我們團結合作，
便能成就了不起的事。
便能成就了不起的事。
04:37
At one company,
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有一間公司，
04:39
there are more than 50 campaigns
by employees there
by employees there
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有超過五十個由員工發起的活動，
04:42
on issues ranging from dress code changes
to legitimate safety concerns.
to legitimate safety concerns.
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主題從改變服裝規定
到合理的安全考量都有。
04:47
And get this:
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要知道：
04:48
that same company has
the lowest voluntary turnover rate
the lowest voluntary turnover rate
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在這個產業的各大連鎖店中，
這間公司的自願離職率最低。
04:53
of any major chain in its sector.
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04:55
And it also has one of the higher
productivity rates as well.
productivity rates as well.
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它的生產力也比其他同業較高。
05:01
Business leaders:
you shouldn't fear conflict,
you shouldn't fear conflict,
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給企業主：你們不要害怕衝突，
05:03
and you shouldn't try to tamp down on it
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當你的企業內出現衝突時，
05:05
the minute it bubbles up
in your workforce.
in your workforce.
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也不要嘗試去壓制它。
05:08
While it can introduce uncertainties
that can be difficult to manage,
that can be difficult to manage,
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雖然衝突可能會帶來
很難處理的不確定性，
很難處理的不確定性，
05:13
those uncertainties are trying
to tell you something
to tell you something
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但那些不確定性其實也試圖在告訴你
05:16
about an underlying problem
that needs your attention.
that needs your attention.
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需要去注意那些潛藏的問題。
05:20
And I think this is
especially important right now,
especially important right now,
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我想在現代這點特別地重要，
05:23
you know, as technology
transforms nearly everyone's job
transforms nearly everyone's job
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因為科技幾乎改變了所有人的工作，
05:28
and as the structures
that contain our work
that contain our work
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我們的工作所屬的架構
05:31
are changing at a pace not seen
since the Industrial Revolution.
since the Industrial Revolution.
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也在以工業革命之後
前所未見地快速改變。
前所未見地快速改變。
05:35
We all need to be shaping
and participating in the future of work.
and participating in the future of work.
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我們都需要塑造和參與未來的工作。
05:40
We all need to be challenging
and changing the parts of our work lives
and changing the parts of our work lives
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我們工作生活中有問題的部分，
我們都得要去挑戰和改變它們。
05:44
that are broken.
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05:47
So I hope the next time
a coworker invites you
a coworker invites you
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我希望下次同事邀請你
05:50
maybe to join a sign-on
letter to your boss,
letter to your boss,
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一起連署向你的老闆陳情時，
05:53
or a group of employees asks for a meeting
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或有一群員工要求開會
05:56
to discuss their concerns
about the new health care plan,
about the new health care plan,
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討論對新醫療保健計畫的想法時，
06:00
I hope you'll consider it an opportunity
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我希望你能把它視為是一個
06:03
to build a better workplace,
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打造更佳的工作環境、
06:05
a stronger business
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更壯大的企業
06:07
and an economy that works for all of us.
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及適用所有人的經濟體的大好機會。
06:10
Thank you.
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謝謝。
06:11
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jess Kutch - Labor entrepreneurTED Fellow Jess Kutch is the cofounder of Coworker.org, a nonprofit that helps people join together to improve their jobs and workplaces.
Why you should listen
Jess Kutch and her team at Coworker.org are figuring out the technology, organizing models, financing and policies that can help workers improve their companies and industries in today’s economy. At Coworker.org, they believe anyone can be a workplace organizer and that seeking positive change at work is a form of civic and community leadership that requires infrastructure. Since 2013, hundreds of thousands of people in the United States and worldwide have used Coworker.org tools and services to win wage increases, scheduling improvements and parental leave benefits; end biased dress codes; fix harassment policies; demand corporate ethics and much more. Coworker.org also helps channel workers' information about the real-time effects of digital economy trends -- like automation, data profiting, surveillance and app-based gig work -- to influence decisions that will shape the future of work and inequality.
Kutch has 15 years of experience innovating at the intersection of technology and social change. Previously, she led a team at Change.org that inspired hundreds of thousands of people to launch and lead their own efforts on the platform. She also spent five years at the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), where she pioneered digital strategies for the labor movement. Kutch is a TED Fellow, an Echoing Green Global Fellow, a J.M.K. Innovation Prize winner and an Aspen Institute Job Quality Fellow. She is a frequently requested speaker at business, labor, futurist, democracy and economic conferences around the world. She has been invited to provide expert testimony to the EEOC Task Force on Harassment in the Workplace and the National Labor Relations Board. In 2015, Coworker.org cohosted the first-ever White House Town Hall on Worker Voice.
Jess Kutch | Speaker | TED.com