ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Devdutt Pattanaik - Mythologist
Devdutt Pattanaik looks at business and modern life through the lens of mythology.

Why you should listen

We all search for meaning in our work and lives. Devdutt Pattanaik suggests we try a tactic of our ancestors -- finding life lessons in myth, ritual and shared stories. When he was Chief Belief Officer at Future Group in Mumbai, he helped managers harness the power of myth to understand their employees, their companies and their customers. He's working to create a Retail Religion, to build deep, lasting ties between customers and brands.

Pattanaik is a self-taught mythologist, and the author (and often illustrator) of several works on aspects of myth, including the primer Myth = Mithya: A Handbook of Hindu Mythology and his most recent book, 7 Secrets from Hindu Calendar Art. He writes a column called "Management Mythos" for Economic Times that juxtaposes myth onto modern leadership challenges. His newest area of inquiry: How is traditional management, as expressed in old Indian cultural narratives, different from modern scientific management techniques?"

More profile about the speaker
Devdutt Pattanaik | Speaker | TED.com
TEDIndia 2009

Devdutt Pattanaik: East vs. West -- the myths that mystify

戴都特‧帕坦奈:東方與西方:迷惑你我的神話

Filmed:
2,207,034 views

戴都特‧帕坦奈解讀東方與西方的神話,不僅令人大開眼界,也讓我們了解到這兩種截然不同,有關於神、死亡和天堂的信仰是如何持續地導致彼此的誤解。
- Mythologist
Devdutt Pattanaik looks at business and modern life through the lens of mythology. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:17
To understand理解 the business商業 of mythology神話
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要了解什麼是神話,
00:20
and what a Chief首席 Belief信仰 Officer is supposed應該 to do,
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以及一位首席精神領袖應該要做什麼,
00:24
you have to hear a story故事
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你必須要聽一個故事
00:26
of Ganesha象頭神,
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有關格涅沙,
00:28
the elephant-headed大象為首 god
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也就是象頭神。
00:30
who is the scribe of storytellers講故事的人,
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祂是說故事的人的書記,
00:33
and his brother哥哥,
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還有祂的弟弟,
00:34
the athletic競技 warlord軍閥 of the gods,
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那矯健的戰神,
00:36
Kartikeya卡爾提克亞.
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迦帝羯耶。
00:38
The two brothers兄弟 one day decided決定 to go on a race種族,
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有一天兩兄弟決定要來個比賽,
00:41
three times around the world世界.
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看誰最快繞世界三圈。
00:44
Kartikeya卡爾提克亞 leapt躍上 on his peacock孔雀
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迦帝羯耶跳上孔雀,
00:47
and flew around the continents大陸
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飛過各大洲,
00:50
and the mountains and the oceans海洋.
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飛過群山四海,
00:55
He went around once一旦,
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一圈,
00:57
he went around twice兩次,
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兩圈,
00:59
he went around thrice三次.
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三圈,
01:02
But his brother哥哥, Ganesha象頭神,
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但格涅沙
01:05
simply只是 walked around his parents父母
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只有繞著父母走。
01:08
once一旦, twice兩次, thrice三次,
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一圈、兩圈、三圈,
01:10
and said, "I won韓元."
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然後說,我贏了。
01:13
"How come?" said Kartikeya卡爾提克亞.
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為什麼? 迦帝羯耶說。
01:15
And Ganesha象頭神 said,
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格涅沙說:
01:16
"You went around 'the“在 world世界.'
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你繞的是外在世界。
01:19
I went around 'my“我 world世界.'"
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我繞的是「我的」世界。
01:22
What matters事項 more?
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哪一個比較重要?
01:25
If you understand理解 the difference區別 between之間 'the“在 world'世界' and 'my“我 world世界,'
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如果你了解「外在世界」和「我的世界」的不同,
01:28
you understand理解 the difference區別 between之間 logos徽標 and mythos神話.
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你就了解哲學思考和神話的不同。
01:32
'The world'世界' is objective目的,
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「外在」世界是客觀的。
01:34
logical合乎邏輯, universal普遍, factual事實,
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合乎邏輯的,放諸四海皆準的,事實的,
01:37
scientific科學.
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科學的。
01:39
'My world'世界' is subjective主觀.
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「我的世界」是主觀的。
01:42
It's emotional情緒化. It's personal個人.
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是情感的、私人的。
01:45
It's perceptions看法, thoughts思念, feelings情懷, dreams.
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有關感知、思想、感覺和夢。
01:48
It is the belief信仰 system系統 that we carry攜帶.
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是我們遵循的信仰,
01:51
It's the myth神話 that we live生活 in.
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是我們所活的神話世界,
01:54
'The world'世界' tells告訴 us how the world世界 functions功能,
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外在世界告訴我們這世界如何運作,
01:57
how the sun太陽 rises上升,
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太陽如何升起,
02:00
how we are born天生.
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我們如何出生。
02:03
'My world'世界' tells告訴 us why the sun太陽 rises上升,
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我的世界告訴我們太陽「為何」升起
02:06
why we were born天生.
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我們「為何」出生。
02:10
Every一切 culture文化 is trying to understand理解 itself本身:
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每個文化都試著想了解自己,
02:14
"Why do we exist存在?"
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我們為什麼存在?
02:16
And every一切 culture文化 comes up with its own擁有 understanding理解 of life,
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而且每個文化都有自己一套對生命的解釋,
02:19
its own擁有 customized定制 version of mythology神話.
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符合自己需求的神話。
02:24
Culture文化 is a reaction反應 to nature性質,
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文化是相對於自然的產物,
02:27
and this understanding理解 of our ancestors祖先
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而這個對於我們祖先的知識
02:29
is transmitted發送 generation from generation
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一代傳一代,
02:32
in the form形成 of stories故事, symbols符號 and rituals儀式,
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化身為故事、符號、和儀式。
02:35
which哪一個 are always indifferent冷漠 to rationality理性.
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與理性完全不相干。
02:41
And so, when you study研究 it, you realize實現
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因此,當你研究神話,你會領悟到。
02:43
that different不同 people of the world世界
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不同地方的人。
02:45
have a different不同 understanding理解 of the world世界.
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對世界有不同的理解。
02:48
Different不同 people see things differently不同 --
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每個人看事情
02:50
different不同 viewpoints觀點.
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的角度都不一樣。
02:52
There is my world世界 and there is your world世界,
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我有我的世界,你有你的世界。
02:54
and my world世界 is always better than your world世界,
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我的世界永遠比你的世界好,
02:57
because my world世界, you see, is rational合理的
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因為我的世界是理性的,
03:00
and yours你的 is superstition迷信.
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你的世界是迷信的。
03:02
Yours你的 is faith信仰.
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是信仰,
03:04
Yours你的 is illogical不通.
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是不合理的。
03:07
This is the root of the clash衝突 of civilizations文明.
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這就是文化之間衝突的根源。
03:10
It took place地點, once一旦, in 326 B.C.
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在西元前326年時,曾經有一次這樣的衝突。
03:14
on the banks銀行 of a river called the Indus梧桐,
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在一個叫印度斯的河岸,
03:17
now in Pakistan巴基斯坦.
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現在在巴基斯坦。
03:19
This river lends借給 itself本身 to India's印度 name名稱.
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印度之名就是源自於此河。
03:22
India印度. Indus梧桐.
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印度,印度斯。
03:27
Alexander亞歷山大, a young年輕 Macedonian馬其頓,
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一位年輕的馬其頓人,亞歷山大,
03:30
met會見 there what he called a "gymnosophist裸體主義者,"
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在那裡遇到一位「修行者」,
03:34
which哪一個 means手段 "the naked, wise明智的 man."
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意指「裸體的智者」。
03:37
We don't know who he was.
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我們不知道他是誰。
03:39
Perhaps也許 he was a Jain耆那教 monk,
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或許是一個耆那教徒。
03:41
like BahubaliBahubali over here,
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就像這裡的巴乎巴立。
03:43
the GomateshwaraGomateshwara BahubaliBahubali
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哥馬塔須瓦拉 巴乎巴立
03:44
whose誰的 image圖片 is not far from Mysore邁索爾.
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長得有點像麥索爾。
03:46
Or perhaps也許 he was just a yogi修道者
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或許他只是一個瑜珈修士,
03:48
who was sitting坐在 on a rock, staring凝視 at the sky天空
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坐在岩石上盯著天空,
03:50
and the sun太陽 and the moon月亮.
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太陽和月亮看。
03:52
Alexander亞歷山大 asked, "What are you doing?"
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亞歷山大問他,你在做什麼?
03:55
and the gymnosophist裸體主義者 answered回答,
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裸體修行者答說:
03:57
"I'm experiencing經歷 nothingness虛無."
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我正在感受「虛無」。
04:00
Then the gymnosophist裸體主義者 asked,
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裸體靈修者問:
04:03
"What are you doing?"
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你呢?
04:05
and Alexander亞歷山大 said, "I am conquering征服 the world世界."
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亞歷山大說:我在征服這個世界。
04:08
And they both laughed笑了.
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然後他們同時笑了。
04:11
Each one thought that the other was a fool傻子.
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彼此都認為對方是傻子。
04:15
The gymnosophist裸體主義者 said, "Why is he conquering征服 the world世界?
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裸體靈修者說:他為什麼要征服世界。
04:19
It's pointless無意義."
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毫無意義啊!
04:22
And Alexander亞歷山大 thought,
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亞歷山大心想,
04:24
"Why is he sitting坐在 around, doing nothing?
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他為什麼要整天坐在那裡無所是事?
04:26
What a waste浪費 of a life."
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真是浪費生命!
04:28
To understand理解 this difference區別 in viewpoints觀點,
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為了理解觀點的不同,
04:32
we have to understand理解
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我們必須了解
04:35
the subjective主觀 truth真相 of Alexander亞歷山大 --
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亞歷山大主觀的真理,
04:38
his myth神話, and the mythology神話 that constructed it.
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他的神話和其中的神話學。
04:43
Alexander's亞歷山大 mother母親, his parents父母, his teacher老師 Aristotle亞里士多德
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亞歷山大的母親,他的父母和老師亞里斯多德
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told him the story故事 of Homer's荷馬 "Iliad伊利亞特."
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告訴他荷馬的史詩─伊里亞德。
04:49
They told him of a great hero英雄 called Achilles阿喀琉斯,
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他們告訴他有關偉大的英雄阿基里斯的故事,
04:52
who, when he participated參加 in battle戰鬥, victory勝利 was assured保證,
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攻無不克,戰無不勝。
04:55
but when he withdrew撤回 from the battle戰鬥,
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但是當他從戰役撤回時,
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defeat打敗 was inevitable必然.
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敗仗無可避免。
05:01
"Achilles阿喀琉斯 was a man who could shape形狀 history歷史,
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阿基里斯是一個能創造歷史的人,
05:04
a man of destiny命運,
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一個已注定了偉大命運的人。
05:07
and this is what you should be, Alexander亞歷山大."
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你就應該像他一樣,亞歷山大
05:10
That's what he heard聽說.
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這是他聽到了故事。
05:12
"What should you not be?
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你不應該變成什麼呢?
05:15
You should not be Sisyphus西西弗斯,
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薛西弗斯。
05:18
who rolls勞斯萊斯 a rock up a mountain all day
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他每天把推石頭上山,
05:20
only to find the boulder漂礫 rolled熱軋 down at night.
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石頭卻在晚山滾下來。
05:25
Don't live生活 a life which哪一個 is monotonous單調,
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不要一成不變地生活著,
05:28
mediocre平庸, meaningless無意義的.
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庸庸碌碌,毫無意義。
05:30
Be spectacular壯觀! --
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要活得轟轟烈烈,
05:33
like the Greek希臘語 heroes英雄,
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就像希臘的英雄們,
05:35
like Jason賈森, who went across橫過 the sea
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像傑生,漂洋過海
05:37
with the Argonauts淘金 and fetched the Golden金色 Fleece羊毛.
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與亞戈水手們去取金羊毛。
05:41
Be spectacular壯觀 like Theseus忒修斯,
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像賽修斯一樣勇猛,
05:44
who entered進入 the labyrinth迷宮 and killed殺害 the bull-headed公牛當家 Minotaur牛頭怪.
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進入迷宮殺死牛頭人。
05:50
When you play in a race種族, win贏得! --
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當你參加比賽,你就要贏!
05:54
because when you win贏得, the exhilaration不亦樂乎 of victory勝利
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因為當你勝利時,那種興奮感
05:57
is the closest最近的 you will come to the ambrosia神的食物 of the gods."
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就像嚐了神的美味食物。
06:02
Because, you see, the Greeks希臘人 believed相信
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因為系臘人相信,
06:05
you live生活 only once一旦,
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你只活一次。
06:07
and when you die, you have to cross交叉 the River Styx冥河.
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而當你死時,你必須越過冥河,
06:11
And if you have lived生活 an extraordinary非凡 life,
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如果你過了一個很精采的人生,
06:14
you will be welcomed歡迎 to Elysium極樂世界,
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極樂世界將會敞開大門歡迎你,
06:17
or what the French法國 call "Champs-香榭麗舍Élys賴氨酸éesES" --
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也就是法國人所說的「香榭大道」!
06:21
(Laughter笑聲) --
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(笑聲)
06:22
the heaven天堂 of the heroes英雄.
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英雄們的天堂!
06:28
But these are not the stories故事 that the gymnosophist裸體主義者 heard聽說.
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但是這些不是那位裸體靈修者所聽到的故事,
06:32
He heard聽說 a very different不同 story故事.
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他聽到的故事完全不一樣。
06:35
He heard聽說 of a man called Bharat巴拉特,
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他聽到一個叫作婆羅的人,
06:38
after whom India印度 is called BhBHārata按比例.
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印度因他而被稱作婆羅多。
06:41
Bharat巴拉特 also conquered征服 the world世界.
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婆羅也征服了全世界,
06:44
And then he went to the top-most最頂層 peak
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然後他跑到了
06:47
of the greatest最大 mountain of the center中央 of the world世界
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世界中心的最高峰,
06:50
called Meru梅魯.
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「美魯」頂上。
06:51
And he wanted to hoist提升 his flag to say,
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他想要豎起他的旗子說,
06:54
"I was here first."
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我是來到此地的第一人。
06:57
But when he reached到達 the mountain peak,
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但當他到達峰頂時,
06:59
he found發現 the peak covered覆蓋 with countless無數 flags
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他發現那裡早就佈滿屬不盡的旗子,
07:04
of world-conquerors世界征服者 before him,
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來自那些在他之前的世界征服者,
07:07
each one claiming自稱 "'I'一世 was here first'第一' ...
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每個人都宣稱:我是第一人。
07:11
that's what I thought until直到 I came來了 here."
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在來到此之前,我是這麼想的。
07:15
And suddenly突然, in this canvas帆布 of infinity無窮,
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突然間,在這幅大無限的世界畫布裡,
07:18
Bharat巴拉特 felt insignificant微不足道.
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婆羅多感到微不足道。
07:22
This was the mythology神話 of the gymnosophist裸體主義者.
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這就是裸體靈修者的神話。
07:26
You see, he had heroes英雄, like Ram內存 -- RaghupatiRaghupati Ram內存
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你知道,他有像來姆,奈古帕提‧ 來姆,
07:31
and Krishna克里希納, Govinda戈文達 Hari哈日.
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和奎師那,戈文達‧ 哈里這些英雄。
07:33
But they were not two characters人物 on two different不同 adventures冒險.
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但是他們不是兩段不同冒險裡的兩個角色,
07:37
They were two lifetimes壽命 of the same相同 hero英雄.
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而是同一個英雄的兩段人生。
07:41
When the Ramayana羅摩衍那 ends結束 the Mahabharata摩訶婆羅多 begins開始.
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當羅摩衍那結束時,摩訶婆羅多即開始。
07:45
When Ram內存 dies, Krishna克里希納 is born天生.
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當雷姆死時,奎斯那即誕生。
07:47
When Krishna克里希納 dies, eventually終於 he will be back as Ram內存.
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奎斯那死去後終究還是會輪迴成雷姆。
07:50
You see, the Indians印度人 also had a river
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是這樣的,印度人有條河。
07:53
that separates中隔離 the land土地 of the living活的 from the land土地 of the dead.
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它阻隔了活人和死人的世界,
07:56
But you don't cross交叉 it once一旦.
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但你不只有跨越過它一次,
07:58
You go to and fro來來往往 endlessly不休.
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你將永無止境地在這兩個世界來回
08:01
It was called the VaitaraniVaitarani.
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這條河叫作瓦伊特爾納河
08:04
You go again and again and again.
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你會一再地前往
08:07
Because, you see,
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因為啊
08:08
nothing lasts持續 forever永遠 in India印度, not even death死亡.
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連死亡也不意外
08:11
And so, you have these grand盛大 rituals儀式
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所以會有那些盛大的儀式
08:14
where great images圖片 of mother母親 goddesses女神 are built內置
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人們建造超大女神像
08:17
and worshiped崇拜 for 10 days ...
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然後膜拜十天
08:19
And what do you do at the end結束 of 10 days?
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十天後呢?
08:21
You dunk it in the river.
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就把祂丟入河裡
08:24
Because it has to end結束.
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凡事都有盡頭
08:26
And next下一個 year, she will come back.
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明年她會再現
08:29
What goes around always comes around,
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凡事都有輪迴
08:31
and this rule規則 applies適用 not just to man,
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不只人們有輪迴
08:34
but also the gods.
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神也有
08:36
You see, the gods
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像眾神
08:39
have to come back again and again and again
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也必須這樣地來回輪迴
08:41
as Ram內存, as Krishna克里希納.
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像萊姆,奎斯那
08:43
Not only do they live生活 infinite無窮 lives生活,
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他們不只有永恆的生命
08:46
but the same相同 life is lived生活 infinite無窮 times
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而且同一個人生還會無限地重複
08:49
till直到 you get to the point of it all.
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一直到你了解了人生的真諦
08:54
"Groundhog土撥鼠 Day."
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就像電影今天暫時停止一般
08:56
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
09:01
Two different不同 mythologies神話.
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兩種不同的神話
09:04
Which哪一個 is right?
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哪個有道理呢?
09:06
Two different不同 mythologies神話, two different不同 ways方法 of looking at the world世界.
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兩種不同的神話代表兩種看世界的方法
09:09
One linear線性, one cyclical週期性.
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一個是線性的,一個是循環姓的
09:11
One believes相信 this is the one and only life.
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一個認為要把握唯一此生的當下
09:13
The other believes相信 this is one of many許多 lives生活.
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另一個認為此生只是輪迴中的一回
09:18
And so, the denominator分母 of Alexander's亞歷山大 life was one.
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所以亞歷山大的人生就那麼一次
09:22
So, the value of his life was the sum total
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所以他人生蓋棺定論
09:25
of his achievements成就.
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就是他的所有成就
09:27
The denominator分母 of the gymnosophist's修行者的 life was infinity無窮.
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但是裸體靈修者的生命是永恆輪迴的
09:31
So, no matter what he did,
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所以不管他做了什麼
09:34
it was always zero.
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到頭來還是要從頭開始,所以等於零。
09:36
And I believe it is this mythological神話 paradigm範例
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因此我相信就是這個神話範例
09:39
that inspired啟發 Indian印度人 mathematicians數學家
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啟發了印度數學家
09:42
to discover發現 the number zero.
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發明數字零
09:44
Who knows知道?
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搞不好哩?
09:46
And that brings帶來 us to the mythology神話 of business商業.
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然後這又帶領我們進入各種商業的神話
09:49
If Alexander's亞歷山大 belief信仰 influenced影響 his behavior行為,
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如果亞歷山大的信仰影響了他的行為
09:52
if the gymnosophist's修行者的 belief信仰 influences影響 his behavior行為,
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如果裸體靈修者的信仰影響了他的行為
09:56
then it was bound to influence影響 the business商業 they were in.
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那麼這一定會影響到他們所從事的事業
10:01
You see, what is business商業
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什麼是商業?
10:03
but the result結果 of how the market市場 behaves的行為
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不就是市場行為的產物
10:05
and how the organization組織 behaves的行為?
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以及組織行為的產物
10:08
And if you look at cultures文化 around the world世界,
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如果你想了解各國文化
10:11
all you have to do is understand理解 the mythology神話
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你只需要了解各國神話
10:13
and you will see how they behave表現 and how they do business商業.
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之後你就會了解他們的行為及商業運作方式
10:16
Take a look.
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我們來看一下
10:20
If you live生活 only once一旦, in one-life一個生命 cultures文化 around the world世界,
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如果你只活一次,而且在這世界上信奉生命只有一次的國家裡,
10:23
you will see an obsession困擾 with binary二進制 logic邏輯,
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你就會看到人們對二元論的執迷
10:25
absolute絕對 truth真相, standardization標準化,
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絕對真實,標準化
10:28
absoluteness絕對, linear線性 patterns模式 in design設計.
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絕對性且線性的設計
10:31
But if you look at cultures文化 which哪一個 have cyclical週期性
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但是如果你檢視那些相信輪迴
10:34
and based基於 on infinite無窮 lives生活, you will see a comfort安慰 with fuzzy模糊 logic邏輯,
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認為生命永不止息的文化,你會感到慰藉,因為其中的模糊邏輯
10:39
with opinion意見,
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意見
10:41
with contextual上下文 thinking思維,
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有著文化脈絡背景的思考
10:43
with everything is relative相對的, sort分類 of --
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每件事都是相關連的,幾乎
10:46
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
10:47
mostly大多.
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大部分
10:49
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
10:50
You look at art藝術. Look at the ballerina芭蕾舞演員,
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你看一下藝術。看一下芭蕾舞者。
10:53
how linear線性 she is in her performance性能.
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她的表演有多麼線性
10:55
And then look at the Indian印度人 classical古典 dancer舞蹈家,
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再看看印度傳統舞者
10:57
the KuchipudiKuchipudi dancer舞蹈家, the Bharatanatyam婆羅多舞 dancer舞蹈家,
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酷奇普地舞者,婆羅多舞者
10:59
curvaceous婀娜.
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曲線多美啊
11:01
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
11:04
And then look at business商業.
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我們再來看看商業是怎麼一回事
11:06
Standard標準 business商業 model模型:
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標準商業典型
11:08
vision視力, mission任務, values, processes流程.
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視野、使命、價值和過程
11:12
Sounds聲音 very much like the journey旅程 through通過
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聽起來很像
11:14
the wilderness荒野 to the promised許諾 land土地,
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穿越荒野前往應許之地的旅程
11:16
with the commandments戒律 held保持 by the leader領導.
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領隊攜著誡命
11:18
And if you comply執行, you will go to heaven天堂.
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如果你達成命令,你就可以上天堂
11:23
But in India印度 there is no "the" promised許諾 land土地.
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但在印度沒有所謂的那個最終的「應許之地」
11:25
There are many許多 promised許諾 lands土地,
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應許之地有很多種層次
11:28
depending根據 on your station in society社會,
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依你在社會的地位而定
11:31
depending根據 on your stage階段 of life.
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以及你人生中所處的階段而定
11:33
You see, businesses企業 are not run as institutions機構,
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是這樣,經營商業並不是像經營一個機構那樣
11:37
by the idiosyncrasies特質 of individuals個人.
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由個人的習性掌控
11:40
It's always about taste味道.
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它總是與趣味品味有關
11:43
It's always about my taste味道.
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是個人導向的
11:47
You see, Indian印度人 music音樂, for example,
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舉例來說,印度音樂
11:49
does not have the concept概念 of harmony和諧.
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並沒有和諧的概念
11:51
There is no orchestra樂隊 conductor導體.
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沒有管懸樂團
11:55
There is one performer演員 standing常設 there, and everybody每個人 follows如下.
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只有一個表演者站在那裡,然後大家跟著
11:58
And you can never replicate複製 that performance性能 twice兩次.
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你不可能重複同一個表演
12:02
It is not about documentation文件 and contract合同.
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跟什麼文件合約無關
12:04
It's about conversation會話 and faith信仰.
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而是和會話和信仰有關
12:08
It's not about compliance合規. It's about setting設置,
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和承諾無關,和環境有關
12:12
getting得到 the job工作 doneDONE, by bending彎曲 or breaking破壞 the rules規則 --
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只要把工作做好,哪怕要打破規則
12:16
just look at your Indian印度人 people around here,
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看一下你在座的印度人吧
12:18
you'll你會 see them smile微笑; they know what it is.
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他們會對你微笑,因為他們知道我在說什麼
12:20
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
12:21
And then look at people who have doneDONE business商業 in India印度,
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再看看那些在印度做過生意的人
12:23
you'll你會 see the exasperation惱怒 on their faces面孔.
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他們臉上則是只有惱怒
12:25
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
12:26
(Applause掌聲)
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(拍掌)
12:30
You see, this is what India印度 is today今天. The ground地面 reality現實
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這樣你了解了吧,這就是現今的印度。現實世界是
12:32
is based基於 on a cyclical週期性 world世界 view視圖.
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建構在一種輪迴觀
12:34
So, it's rapidly急速 changing改變, highly高度 diverse多種,
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所以世界是變換莫測的,超多樣化的
12:37
chaotic混亂的, ambiguous曖昧, unpredictable不可預料的.
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混亂混沌且不可預測的
12:40
And people are okay with it.
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人們相安無事啊
12:43
And then globalization全球化 is taking服用 place地點.
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然後全球化出現
12:45
The demands需要 of modern現代 institutional制度 thinking思維 is coming未來 in.
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要求現代制度化思考就來啦
12:49
Which哪一個 is rooted in one-life一個生命 culture文化.
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它源自相信人只有一次生命的文化
12:53
And a clash衝突 is going to take place地點,
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衝突即將發生
12:55
like on the banks銀行 of the Indus梧桐.
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就像印度河岸發生的一樣
12:58
It is bound to happen發生.
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遲早會發生的
13:01
I have personally親自 experienced有經驗的 it. I'm trained熟練 as a medical doctor醫生.
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我個人有經驗。我是受醫學訓練的
13:04
I did not want to study研究 surgery手術. Don't ask me why.
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但我不想學外科手術,別問我問為什麼
13:07
I love mythology神話 too much.
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我太愛神話學了
13:09
I wanted to learn學習 mythology神話. But there is nowhere無處 you can study研究.
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我想學但卻沒地方學
13:11
So, I had to teach it to myself.
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所以我只好自己學
13:13
And mythology神話 does not pay工資, well, until直到 now.
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神話學一點都不賺錢,好吧,直到現在才賺
13:16
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
13:20
So, I had to take up a job工作. And I worked工作 in the pharma製藥 industry行業.
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所以我只好找個工作活口,在醫藥業
13:23
And I worked工作 in the healthcare衛生保健 industry行業.
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然後是保健業
13:25
And I worked工作 as a marketing營銷 guy, and a sales銷售 guy,
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行銷和業務
13:27
and a knowledge知識 guy, and a content內容 guy, and a training訓練 guy.
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飽學知識的人和訓練師
13:30
I even was a business商業 consultant顧問, doing strategies策略 and tactics策略.
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我還做過商業顧問幫忙作策略
13:33
And I would see the exasperation惱怒
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13:35
between之間 my American美國 and European歐洲的 colleagues同事,
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我的歐美同事和印度人交涉時,
13:38
when they were dealing交易 with India印度.
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我看到他們的惱怒
13:40
Example: Please tell us the process處理
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舉例:請告訴我們
13:43
to invoice發票 hospitals醫院.
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開醫院發票的流程
13:46
Step A. Step B. Step C. Mostly大多.
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大部分是部驟一二三
13:50
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
13:52
How do you parameterize參數 "mostly大多"?
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怎麼參數化「大部分」呢?
13:54
How do you put it in a nice不錯 little software軟件? You can't.
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如何把它放進小軟體裡呢? 你辦不到
13:58
I would give my viewpoints觀點 to people.
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我會告訴人們我的觀點
14:00
But nobody沒有人 was interested有興趣 in listening to it,
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但沒人會想聽
14:02
you see, until直到 I met會見 Kishore基肖爾 BiyaniBiyani of the Future未來 group.
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直到我遇到未來集團的吉秀‧比亞尼
14:06
You see, he has established既定 the largest最大 retail零售 chain, called Big Bazaar市場.
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他那時已經建立了最大的零售連鎖店「大商場」
14:11
And there are more than 200 formats格式,
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在全印度50個城市和鄉鎮中
14:13
across橫過 50 cities城市 and towns城市 of India印度.
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有超過200個模式
14:15
And he was dealing交易 with diverse多種 and dynamic動態 markets市場.
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他必須處理各式各樣活躍的市場
14:19
And he knew知道 very intuitively直觀地,
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他直覺認為
14:21
that best最好 practices做法,
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14:23
developed發達 in Japan日本 and China中國 and Europe歐洲 and America美國
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日本中國歐洲和美國的最佳模式
14:26
will not work in India印度.
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在印度行不通的
14:29
He knew知道 that institutional制度 thinking思維 doesn't work in India印度. Individual個人 thinking思維 does.
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他知道制式化思考在印度行不通,個人化獨立思考才行的通
14:33
He had an intuitive直觀的 understanding理解 of the mythic神話 structure結構體 of India印度.
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他已經深刻了解印度的神話般結構
14:37
So, he had asked me to be the Chief首席 Belief信仰 Officer, and said,
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所以他邀我擔任首席精神領袖
14:39
"All I want to do is align對齊 belief信仰."
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他說:我只要你把信仰整合起來
14:42
Sounds聲音 so simple簡單.
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聽起來很簡單
14:44
But belief信仰 is not measurable可測量.
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但是信仰是不無法測量的
14:46
You can't measure測量 it. You can't manage管理 it.
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你無法測量它,更別說管理它了
14:48
So, how do you construct構造 belief信仰?
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所以啊,你怎麼建構出信仰?
14:50
How do you enhance提高 the sensitivity靈敏度 of people to Indian-ness印度岬.
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你如何增進人對印度性的敏感度呢?
14:54
Even if you are Indian印度人, it is not very explicit明確的, it is not very obvious明顯.
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幾使你是印度人,你也可能不能清楚感知道它
14:58
So, I tried試著 to work on the standard標準 model模型 of culture文化,
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所以我試著從文化的標準模型下手
15:02
which哪一個 is, develop發展 stories故事, symbols符號 and rituals儀式.
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也就是發產出故事象徵和儀式
15:04
And I will share分享 one of the rituals儀式 with you.
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我將和你們分享其中一個儀式
15:07
You see it is based基於 on the Hindu印度教 ritual儀式 of Darshan達山.
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它是基於印度儀式中的達顯。
15:10
Hindus印度教徒 don't have the concept概念 of commandments戒律.
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印度教並沒有戒律的概念。
15:12
So, there is nothing right or wrong錯誤 in what you do in life.
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所以你人生所做的事並沒有對或錯。
15:14
So, you're not really sure how you stand in front面前 of God.
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你在神之面前於是會不知所措。
15:17
So, when you go to the temple寺廟, all you seek尋求 is an audience聽眾 with God.
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所以你去廟宇時,你只想當神的觀眾。
15:20
You want to see God.
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你想看到神。
15:22
And you want God to see you, and hence於是 the gods have very large eyes眼睛,
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你也想讓神看到你,所以神都有很大的眼睛。
15:26
large unblinking眼睛一眨不眨 eyes眼睛,
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而且不眨眼的,
15:28
sometimes有時 made製作 of silver,
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有時還是銀做的。
15:31
so they look at you.
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神看著你,
15:33
Because you don't know whether是否 you're right or wrong錯誤, and so all you seek尋求
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因為以不知道自己做錯作對,所以你只冀求
15:35
is divine神聖 empathy同情.
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神聖的神入。
15:39
"Just know where I came來了 from, why I did the JugaadJugaad."
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只想知道我從哪裡來,我為什麼要當創意天才?
15:42
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
15:43
"Why did I do the setting設置,
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為什麼我佈置這些?
15:45
why I don't care關心 for the processes流程. Just understand理解 me, please."
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我為什麼不在意程序? 請了解我吧。
15:50
And based基於 on this, we created創建 a ritual儀式 for leaders領導者.
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根據這些呢,我們為領導者創造了一個儀式
15:53
After a leader領導 completes完成 his training訓練 and is about to take over the store商店,
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在領導者結束訓練即將掌管商店時
15:57
we blindfold盲目的 him, we surround環繞 him with the stakeholders利益相關者,
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我們蒙住他的眼睛,所有它的關係人圍繞著他,
16:01
the customer顧客, his family家庭, his team球隊, his boss老闆.
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他的顧客家人團隊和老闆。
16:05
You read out his KRAKRA, his KPIKPI, you give him the keys按鍵,
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唸出他的組織績效、流程績效,給他那些關鍵。
16:08
and then you remove去掉 the blindfold盲目的.
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然後移去蒙眼條,
16:10
And invariably不變地, you see a tear眼淚,
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然後你總是會看到對方留下眼淚
16:13
because the penny一分錢 has dropped下降.
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因為他已經悟道了。
16:15
He realizes實現 that to succeed成功,
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他領悟到要成功的話,
16:19
he does not have to be a "professional專業的,"
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他並不需要成為一個專業人士,
16:22
he does not have to cut out his emotions情緒,
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他不需要屏除他的情緒。
16:25
he has to include包括 all these people
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要成功的話他必須把這些人納入他的世界
16:28
in his world世界 to succeed成功, to make them happy快樂,
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讓他們愉快。
16:32
to make the boss老闆 happy快樂, to make everyone大家 happy快樂.
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讓老闆愉快,讓每個人愉快。
16:34
The customer顧客 is happy快樂, because the customer顧客 is God.
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顧客就是神,所以要讓他們愉快。
16:37
That sensitivity靈敏度 is what we need. Once一旦 this belief信仰 enters進入,
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我們需要感性。只要你相信這個信仰,
16:40
behavior行為 will happen發生, business商業 will happen發生.
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就會有好的行為,商業也會跟著來。
16:43
And it has.
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它的確已經開始了。
16:46
So, then we come back to Alexander亞歷山大
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好,我們在回到亞歷山大
16:49
and to the gymnosophist裸體主義者.
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和裸體靈修者。
16:51
And everybody每個人 asks me, "Which哪一個 is the better way, this way or that way?"
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大家都問我哪一個比較好啊?
16:55
And it's a very dangerous危險 question,
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這個問題很危險,
16:57
because it leads引線 you to the path路徑 of fundamentalism原教旨主義 and violence暴力.
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因為他領導你走向基本教義派和暴力。
17:01
So, I will not answer回答 the question.
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所以我不會回答。
17:03
What I will give you is an Indian印度人 answer回答,
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我要給你一個印度人的答案,
17:05
the Indian印度人 head-shake頭搖.
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印度式搖頭
17:07
(Laughter笑聲)
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(笑聲)
17:09
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
17:13
Depending根據 on the context上下文,
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視文化脈絡而定
17:15
depending根據 on the outcome結果,
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視結果而定
17:17
choose選擇 your paradigm範例.
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來選擇你的模範。
17:20
You see, because both the paradigms範式 are human人的 constructions建設.
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因為兩者都是人類的產物。
17:23
They are cultural文化 creations創作,
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是文化的創造,
17:26
not natural自然 phenomena現象.
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不是自然現象。
17:29
And so the next下一個 time you meet遇到 someone有人, a stranger陌生人,
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所以下一次你遇到一個陌生人,
17:32
one request請求:
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請你
17:34
Understand理解 that you live生活 in the subjective主觀 truth真相,
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要體悟到你有主觀的意識
17:37
and so does he.
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他也有。
17:39
Understand理解 it.
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去了解這件事吧。
17:41
And when you understand理解 it you will discover發現 something spectacular壯觀.
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當你了解了,你會發現驚奇的事。
17:46
You will discover發現 that within infinite無窮 myths神話
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你會發現在無限的神話裡,
17:48
lies the eternal永恆 truth真相.
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有著永恆不變的真理。
17:50
Who sees看到 it all?
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誰看得到真理呢?
17:52
Varuna伐樓拿 has but a thousand eyes眼睛.
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瓦魯納有一千隻眼睛,
17:54
Indra因陀羅, a hundred.
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印迪拉有一百隻,
17:57
You and I, only two.
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你我都只有兩隻。
17:59
Thank you. Namaste合十禮.
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謝謝
18:02
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
Translated by Vicky Chen
Reviewed by Zhu Jie

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Devdutt Pattanaik - Mythologist
Devdutt Pattanaik looks at business and modern life through the lens of mythology.

Why you should listen

We all search for meaning in our work and lives. Devdutt Pattanaik suggests we try a tactic of our ancestors -- finding life lessons in myth, ritual and shared stories. When he was Chief Belief Officer at Future Group in Mumbai, he helped managers harness the power of myth to understand their employees, their companies and their customers. He's working to create a Retail Religion, to build deep, lasting ties between customers and brands.

Pattanaik is a self-taught mythologist, and the author (and often illustrator) of several works on aspects of myth, including the primer Myth = Mithya: A Handbook of Hindu Mythology and his most recent book, 7 Secrets from Hindu Calendar Art. He writes a column called "Management Mythos" for Economic Times that juxtaposes myth onto modern leadership challenges. His newest area of inquiry: How is traditional management, as expressed in old Indian cultural narratives, different from modern scientific management techniques?"

More profile about the speaker
Devdutt Pattanaik | Speaker | TED.com

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