TEDxIndianaUniversity
Euna Lee: What I learned as a prisoner in North Korea
Euna Lee: Što sam naučila u zatočeništvu u Sjevernoj Koreji
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U ožujku 2009. godine vojnici Sjeverne Koreje zarobili su novinarku Eunu Lee i njezinu kolegicu Lauru Ling dok su snimale dokumentarac na granici s Kinom. Sud ih je kaznio s 12 godina prisilnog rada, ali američki su ih diplomati s vremenom uspjeli uvjeriti da ih puste. U ovom iznenađujućem, iznimno čovječnom govoru Lee je podijelila svoje iskustvo o tome kako je 140 dana u pritvoru živjela kao neprijatelj te sitne geste čovječnosti stražara koji su je čuvali.
Euna Lee - Journalist
Euna Lee strives to be a voice for the voiceless and a window for those with no access to outside information. Full bio
Euna Lee strives to be a voice for the voiceless and a window for those with no access to outside information. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I recently read about
what the young generation of workers want
what the young generation of workers want
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Nedavno sam čitala što žele
mlade generacije radnika
mlade generacije radnika
00:17
in Harvard Business Review.
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u novinama Harvard Business Review.
00:19
One thing that stuck out to me
was: don't just talk about impact,
was: don't just talk about impact,
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Jedna rečenica koja se isticala bila je:
nemojte samo govoriti o utjecaju,
nemojte samo govoriti o utjecaju,
00:24
but make an impact.
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već utječite.
00:26
I'm a little bit older than you,
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Malo sam starija od vas,
00:29
maybe much older than you,
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možda i dosta starija od vas,
00:31
but this is exactly the same goal
that I had when I was in college.
that I had when I was in college.
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ali imala sam
isti cilj dok sam studirala.
isti cilj dok sam studirala.
00:37
I wanted to make my own impact
for those who live under injustice;
for those who live under injustice;
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Htjela sam utjecati
na one koji žive u nepravdi,
na one koji žive u nepravdi,
00:42
it's the reason that I became
a documentary journalist,
a documentary journalist,
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to je i razlog zbog kojeg sam
postala novinar dokumentarist,
postala novinar dokumentarist,
00:45
the reason I became
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razlog zbog kojeg sam postala
00:47
a prisoner in North Korea for 140 days.
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zatočenik Sjeverne Koreje
u trajanju od 140 dana.
u trajanju od 140 dana.
00:52
It was March 17, 2009.
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Bio je 17. ožujka 2009. godine.
00:55
It is St. Patrick's Day for all of you,
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Za sve vas to je Dan svetog Patrika,
00:58
but it was the day
that turned my life upside down.
that turned my life upside down.
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no za mene je to bio dan
kada mi se život okrenuo naglavačke.
kada mi se život okrenuo naglavačke.
01:03
My team and I were making a documentary
about North Korean refugees
about North Korean refugees
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Moja ekipa i ja snimali smo dokumentarac
o izbjeglicama Sjeverne Koreje
o izbjeglicama Sjeverne Koreje
01:08
living below human life in China.
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koji žive u nehumanim uvjetima u Kini.
01:13
We were at the border.
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Bili smo na granici.
01:15
It was our last day of filming.
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Bio je posljednji dan snimanja.
01:19
There was no wire fence
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Nije bilo žičane ograde
01:22
or bars
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ni šipki
01:23
or sign to show that it is the border,
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ni bilo kakvog znaka da je tamo granica,
01:25
but this is a place that a lot
of North Korean defectors use
of North Korean defectors use
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ali to je mjesto za mnoge
dezertere Sjeverne Koreje
dezertere Sjeverne Koreje
01:29
as an escape route.
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put bijega.
01:32
It was still winter,
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Bila je zima
01:34
and the river was frozen.
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i rijeka je bila zaleđena.
01:37
When we were in the middle
of the frozen river,
of the frozen river,
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Bili smo na sredini zamrznute rijeke
01:41
we were filming about
the condition of the cold weather
the condition of the cold weather
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i snimali smo zimske vremenske uvjete
01:44
and the environment
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i okolinu
01:45
that North Koreans had to deal with
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s kojom su se
Sjeverni Korjeci morali suočiti
Sjeverni Korjeci morali suočiti
01:48
when they seek their freedom.
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kada su bježali u slobodu.
01:51
And suddenly, one
of my team members shouted,
of my team members shouted,
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Iznenada, jedan član
moje ekipe je povikao:
moje ekipe je povikao:
01:54
"Soldiers!"
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"Vojnici!"
01:55
So I looked back,
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Okrenula sam se
01:57
and there were two small soldiers
in green uniforms with rifles,
in green uniforms with rifles,
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i vidjela dva mala vojnika
u zelenim uniformama s puškama
u zelenim uniformama s puškama
02:03
chasing after us.
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kako nas love.
02:05
We all ran as fast as we could.
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Bježali smo što smo brže mogli.
02:08
I prayed that, please
don't let them shoot my head.
don't let them shoot my head.
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Molila sam se da me
ne pogode u glavu.
ne pogode u glavu.
02:12
And I was thinking that,
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Razmišljala sam
02:14
if my feet are on Chinese soil,
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ako su mi stopala na kineskom tlu,
02:17
I'll be safe.
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bit ću sigurna.
02:18
And I made it to Chinese soil.
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Uspjela sam doći do kineskog tla.
02:21
Then I saw my colleague
Laura Ling fall on her knees.
Laura Ling fall on her knees.
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Tada sam vidjela kolegicu
Lauru Ling kako je pala na koljena.
Lauru Ling kako je pala na koljena.
02:26
I didn't know what to do
at that short moment,
at that short moment,
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U tom kratkom trenutku
nisam znala što učiniti,
nisam znala što učiniti,
02:29
but I knew that I could not
leave her alone there
leave her alone there
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ali znala sam da je
ne mogu ostaviti samu
ne mogu ostaviti samu
02:31
when she said,
"Euna, I can't feel my legs."
"Euna, I can't feel my legs."
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i tada je rekla:
"Euna, ne osjećam noge."
"Euna, ne osjećam noge."
02:35
In a flash, we were surrounded
by these two Korean soldiers.
by these two Korean soldiers.
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U trenu, ta dva korejska
vojnika su nas okružila.
vojnika su nas okružila.
02:40
They were not much bigger than us,
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Nisu bili mnogo veći od nas,
02:43
but they were determined
to take us to their army base.
to take us to their army base.
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ali čvrsto su odlučili
odvesti nas u svoju vojnu bazu.
odvesti nas u svoju vojnu bazu.
02:47
I begged and yelled for any kind of help,
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Molila sam i vikala
za bilo kakvom pomoći
za bilo kakvom pomoći
02:51
hoping that someone
would show up from China.
would show up from China.
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nadajući se da će se
pojaviti netko iz Kine.
pojaviti netko iz Kine.
02:55
Here I was, being stubborn
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Bila sam tvrdoglava
02:57
towards a trained soldier with a gun.
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prema istreniranom vojniku s puškom.
03:00
I looked at his eyes.
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Pogledala sam ga u oči.
03:04
He was just a boy.
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Bio je tek dječak.
03:07
At that moment,
he raised his rifle to hit me,
he raised his rifle to hit me,
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U tom trenu je usmjerio
pušku prema meni,
pušku prema meni,
03:10
but I saw that he was hesitating.
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ali vidjela sam da je neodlučan.
03:12
His eyes were shaking,
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Oči su mu titrale,
03:14
and his rifle was still up in the air.
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a njegova je puška još visjela u zraku.
03:18
So I shouted at him,
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Povikala sam mu:
03:20
"OK, OK, I'll walk with you."
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"Dobro, dobro, poći ću s tobom."
03:23
And I got up.
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Tada sam ustala.
03:26
When we arrived at their army base,
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Kada smo došli u njihovu vojnu bazu,
03:29
my head was spinning
with these worst-case scenarios,
with these worst-case scenarios,
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u mojoj su se glavi odigravali
najgori mogući scenariji,
najgori mogući scenariji,
03:33
and my colleague's
statement wasn't helping.
statement wasn't helping.
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a ni izjava moje kolegice
nije bila od velike pomoći.
nije bila od velike pomoći.
03:36
She said, "We are the enemy."
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Rekla je: "Mi smo neprijatelji."
03:39
She was right: we were the enemy.
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Bila je u pravu: bili smo neprijatelji.
03:43
And I was supposed to be frightened, too.
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I ja sam trebala biti prestrašena.
03:46
But I kept having these odd experiences.
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Ali stalno su mi se događale
neke čudne stvari.
neke čudne stvari.
03:49
This time, an officer brought me his coat
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Njihov mi je časnik donio svoj kaput
03:53
to keep me warm,
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da se ugrijem,
03:55
because I lost my coat on the frozen river
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jer sam svoj kaput
izgubila na zamrznutoj rijeci
izgubila na zamrznutoj rijeci
03:59
while battling with one of these soldiers.
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dok sam se borila s jednim od vojnika.
04:02
I will tell you what I mean
by these odd experiences.
by these odd experiences.
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Reći ću vam što mislim
pod tim čudnim stvarima.
pod tim čudnim stvarima.
04:07
I grew up in South Korea.
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Odrasla sam u Južnoj Koreji.
04:09
To us, North Korea was always the enemy,
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Za nas je Sjeverna Koreja
uvijek bila neprijatelj,
uvijek bila neprijatelj,
04:13
even before I was born.
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čak i prije mog rođenja.
04:15
South and North have been
under armistice for 63 years,
under armistice for 63 years,
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Primirje između Sjevera i
Juga traje 63 godine,
Juga traje 63 godine,
04:21
since the end of the Korean War.
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od završetka Korejskog rata.
04:23
And growing up in the South
in the '80s and '90s,
in the '80s and '90s,
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Tijekom odrastanja na Jugu
'80-ih i '90-ih godina
'80-ih i '90-ih godina
04:27
we were taught propaganda
about North Korea.
about North Korea.
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podučavani smo
propagandama o Sjevernoj Koreji.
propagandama o Sjevernoj Koreji.
04:33
And we heard so many graphic stories,
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Čuli smo toliko priča
s previše detalja,
s previše detalja,
04:35
such as, a little young boy
being brutally killed
being brutally killed
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primjerice, o dječaku
kojeg su brutalno ubili
kojeg su brutalno ubili
04:39
by North Korean spies
just because he said,
just because he said,
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špijuni Sjeverne Koreje
samo zato što je rekao:
samo zato što je rekao:
04:43
"I don't like communists."
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"Ne volim komuniste."
04:45
Or, I watched this cartoon series
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Ili, gledala sam crtić
04:49
about a young South Korean boy
defeating these fat, big, red pig,
defeating these fat, big, red pig,
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o dječaku iz Južne Koreje koji se bori
s velikom, debelom, crvenom svinjom,
s velikom, debelom, crvenom svinjom,
04:54
which represented the North Koreans'
first leader at the time.
first leader at the time.
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koja je u to doba predstavljala
vođu Sjeverne Koreje.
vođu Sjeverne Koreje.
05:00
And the effect of hearing
these horrible stories over and over
these horrible stories over and over
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Neprestano slušanje
takvih strašnih priča
takvih strašnih priča
05:04
instilled one word in a young mind:
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usadio je jednu riječ u mladi um:
05:08
"enemy."
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"neprijatelj".
05:10
And I think at some point,
I dehumanized them,
I dehumanized them,
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Mislim da sam ih u jednom
trenutku počela dehumanizirati,
trenutku počela dehumanizirati,
05:14
and the people of North Korea
became equated
became equated
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pa su ljudi Sjeverne
Koreje postali isti
Koreje postali isti
05:19
with the North Korean government.
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kao vlada Sjeverne Koreje.
05:23
Now, back to my detention.
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Vratimo se na moj pritvor.
05:25
It was the second day
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Bio je to moj drugi dan
05:28
of being in a cell.
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u ćeliji.
05:30
I had not slept
since I was out at the border.
since I was out at the border.
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Nisam spavala
otkako sam došla s granice.
otkako sam došla s granice.
05:34
This young guard came to my cell
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Mladi je vojnik došao do moje ćelije
05:37
and offered me this small boiled egg
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i ponudio mi malo kuhano jaje
05:41
and said, "This will give you
strength to keep going."
strength to keep going."
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i rekao: "Ovo će ti dati
snagu da nastaviš dalje".
snagu da nastaviš dalje".
05:46
Do you know what it is like,
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Znate li kako je
05:49
receiving a small kindness
in the enemy's hand?
in the enemy's hand?
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primiti mali znak pažnje
iz ruke neprijatelja?
iz ruke neprijatelja?
05:54
Whenever they were kind to me,
I thought the worst case
I thought the worst case
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Kada god su bili ljubazni,
pomislila sam da me najgore čeka
pomislila sam da me najgore čeka
05:57
was waiting for me after the kindness.
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nakon ukazane ljubaznosti.
06:01
One officer noticed my nervousness.
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Jedan je časnik
primjetio moju napetost.
primjetio moju napetost.
06:04
He said, "Did you think
we were all these red pigs?"
we were all these red pigs?"
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Rekao je: "Misliš li da smo
svi mi te crvene svinje?",
svi mi te crvene svinje?",
06:09
referring to the cartoon
that I just showed you.
that I just showed you.
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misleći na crtić
koji sam vam pokazala.
koji sam vam pokazala.
06:15
Every day was like a psychological battle.
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Svaki je dan bio
poput psihološke bitke.
poput psihološke bitke.
06:18
The interrogator had me sit at a table
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Ispitivač je naredio
da sjedim za stolom
da sjedim za stolom
06:21
six days a week
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šest dana tjedno
06:23
and had me writing down
about my journey, my work,
about my journey, my work,
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i tjerao me da pišem
o svome putovanju, o poslu,
o svome putovanju, o poslu,
06:27
over and over until I wrote down
the confession that they wanted to hear.
the confession that they wanted to hear.
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iznova i iznova, dok nisam
napisala priznanje koje su htjeli čuti.
napisala priznanje koje su htjeli čuti.
06:33
After about three months of detention,
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Nakon otprilike tri mjeseca pritvora,
06:36
the North Korean court sentenced me
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sud Sjeverne Koreje odredio mi je kaznu
06:41
to 12 years in a labor camp.
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na 12 godina u radnom logoru.
06:44
So I was just sitting in my room
to be transferred.
to be transferred.
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Sjedila sam u sobi
i čekala premještaj.
i čekala premještaj.
06:48
At that time, I really had
nothing else to do,
nothing else to do,
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U to vrijeme zaista
nisam imala što raditi,
nisam imala što raditi,
06:50
so I paid attention
to these two female guards
to these two female guards
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pa sam pratila dvije stražarice
06:53
and listened to what
they were talking about.
they were talking about.
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i slušala o čemu pričaju.
06:56
Guard A was older,
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Stražarica A bila je starija
06:59
and she studied English.
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i učila je engleski.
07:01
She seemed like she came
from an affluent family.
from an affluent family.
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Činilo se da dolazi
iz bogate obitelji.
iz bogate obitelji.
07:05
She often showed up
with these colorful dresses,
with these colorful dresses,
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Često je dolazila
u šarenim haljinama
u šarenim haljinama
07:07
and then loved to show off.
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i voljela se praviti važna.
07:10
And Guard B was the younger one,
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Stražarica B bila je mlađa
07:13
and she was a really good singer.
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i jako je lijepo pjevala.
07:16
She loved to sing Celine Dion's
"My Heart Will Go On" --
"My Heart Will Go On" --
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Voljela je pjevati pjesmu Celine Dion
"My Heart Will Go On",
"My Heart Will Go On",
07:21
sometimes too much.
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ponekad i previše.
07:22
She knew just how
to torture me without knowing.
to torture me without knowing.
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Mučila me, a da nije bila ni svjesna.
07:26
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
07:28
And this girl spent a lot of time
in the morning to put on makeup,
in the morning to put on makeup,
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Ta je djevojka provodila mnogo
vremena ujutro šminkajući se,
vremena ujutro šminkajući se,
07:34
like you can see in any young girl's life.
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poput svake druge mlade djevojke.
07:39
And they loved to watch
this Chinese drama,
this Chinese drama,
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Voljele su gledali kineske drame,
07:43
a better quality production.
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s boljom produkcijom.
07:45
I remember Guard B said,
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Sjećam se da je stražarica B rekla:
07:49
"I can no longer watch our TV shows
after watching this."
after watching this."
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"Nakon ove serije,
ne mogu gledati nijednu drugu."
ne mogu gledati nijednu drugu."
07:54
She got scolded
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Prekorili su je
07:55
for degrading her own country's
produced TV shows.
produced TV shows.
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jer je umanjivala kvalitetu serija
produciranih u vlastitoj zemlji.
produciranih u vlastitoj zemlji.
08:00
Guard B had more
of a free mind than Guard A,
of a free mind than Guard A,
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Stražarica B bila je
slobodnijeg duha od stražarice A
slobodnijeg duha od stražarice A
08:04
and she often got scolded by Guard A
whenever she expressed herself.
whenever she expressed herself.
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i stražarica A bi je često korila
kad je izražavala svoje mišljenje.
kad je izražavala svoje mišljenje.
08:10
One day, they invited
all these female colleagues --
all these female colleagues --
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Jednog dana, njih su dvije
pozvale svoje kolegice,
pozvale svoje kolegice,
08:13
I don't know where they came from --
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ne znam odakle su došle,
08:15
to where I was held,
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na mjesto gdje sam bila zatočena,
08:18
and they invited me
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i pozvale su me
08:19
to their guard room
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u njihovu stražarsku sobu
08:21
and asked
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i pitale
08:23
if one-night stands
really happen in the US.
really happen in the US.
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da li u SAD-u zaista
postoje veze za jednu noć.
postoje veze za jednu noć.
08:26
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
08:30
This is the country where
young couples are not even allowed
young couples are not even allowed
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Ovo je zemlja gdje
mladim parovima nije dozvoljeno
mladim parovima nije dozvoljeno
08:35
to hold hands in public.
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držati se za ruke u javnosti.
08:36
I had no idea where they
had gotten this information,
had gotten this information,
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Nisam znala odakle su
dobile te informacije,
dobile te informacije,
08:39
but they were shy and giggly
even before I said anything.
even before I said anything.
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ali bile su stidljive i hihotale su se
prije nego sam uspjela odgovoriti.
prije nego sam uspjela odgovoriti.
08:44
I think we all forgot
that I was their prisoner,
that I was their prisoner,
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Mislim da smo sve
zaboravile da sam zatočenica
zaboravile da sam zatočenica
08:48
and it was like going back
to my high school classroom again.
to my high school classroom again.
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i bilo je kao da sam se
vratila u srednju školu.
vratila u srednju školu.
08:53
And I learned that these girls also
grew up watching a similar cartoon,
grew up watching a similar cartoon,
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Shvatila sam da su i ove djevojke
odrasle gledajući sličan crtić,
odrasle gledajući sličan crtić,
08:59
but just propaganda towards
South Korea and the US.
South Korea and the US.
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samo što je propaganda bila
usmjerena na Južnu Koreju i SAD.
usmjerena na Južnu Koreju i SAD.
09:04
I started to understand where
these people's anger was coming from.
these people's anger was coming from.
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Počela sam shvaćati odakle
sva ta mržnja u ljudima.
sva ta mržnja u ljudima.
09:09
If these girls grew up
learning that we are enemies,
learning that we are enemies,
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Ako su te djevojke odrasle
učeći da smo mi neprijatelji,
učeći da smo mi neprijatelji,
09:13
it was just natural
that they would hate us
that they would hate us
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sasvim je prirodno
da one nas mrze,
da one nas mrze,
09:16
just as I feared them.
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a da se ja njih bojim.
09:20
But at that moment, we were all just girls
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Ali u tom trenutku
sve smo bile djevojke
sve smo bile djevojke
09:23
who shared the same interests,
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koje su imale zajedničke interese,
09:26
beyond our ideologies that separated us.
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koji su viši od ideologija
što nas dijele.
što nas dijele.
09:31
I shared these stories with my boss
at Current TV at the time
at Current TV at the time
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Podijelila sam ta iskustva s
direktorom Current televizije
direktorom Current televizije
09:36
after I came home.
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kada sam došla kući.
09:37
His first reaction was,
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Njegova je prva reakcija bila:
09:40
"Euna, have you heard
of Stockholm Syndrome?"
of Stockholm Syndrome?"
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"Euna, jesi li čula za
stockholmski sindrom?"
stockholmski sindrom?"
09:44
Yes, and I clearly remember
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Da, i jasno se sjećam
09:49
the feeling of fear
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osjećaja straha
09:50
and being threatened,
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i ugroženosti
09:53
and tension rising up
between me and the interrogator
between me and the interrogator
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i napetosti koja je rasla
između mene i ispitivača
između mene i ispitivača
09:57
when we talked about politics.
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dok smo razgovarali o politici.
09:59
There definitely was a wall
that we couldn't climb over.
that we couldn't climb over.
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Između nas bio je zid
koji nismo mogli prijeći.
koji nismo mogli prijeći.
10:04
But we were able to see
each other as human beings
each other as human beings
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Ali mogli smo vidjeti
jedno drugo kao ljudska bića
jedno drugo kao ljudska bića
10:08
when we talked about family,
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kada smo pričali o obitelji,
10:10
everyday life,
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svakodnevnom životu,
10:12
the importance of the future
for our children.
for our children.
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o važnosti budućnosti naše djece.
10:18
It was about a month before I came home.
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To je bilo otprilike mjesec dana
prije nego sam došla kući.
prije nego sam došla kući.
10:21
I got really sick.
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Jako sam se razboljela.
10:23
Guard B stopped by my room to say goodbye,
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Stražarica B se došla pozdraviti
10:27
because she was leaving
the detention center.
the detention center.
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jer je odlazila iz pritvora.
10:33
She made sure that no one watched us,
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Pobrinula se da nas nitko ne gleda,
10:36
no one heard us,
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ne čuje
10:37
and quietly said,
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i tiho je rekla:
10:39
"I hope you get better
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"Nadam se da ćeš uskoro ozdraviti
10:41
and go back to your family soon."
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i vratiti se svojoj obitelji."
10:45
It is these people --
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Zbog tih ljudi,
10:47
the officer who brought me his coat,
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časnika koji mi je donio svoj kaput,
10:51
the guard who offered me a boiled egg,
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čuvara koji mi je ponudio kuhano jaje,
10:55
these female guards who asked me
about dating life in the US --
about dating life in the US --
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stražarica koje su me
ispitivale o izlascima u SAD-u,
ispitivale o izlascima u SAD-u,
10:59
they are the ones
that I remember of North Korea:
that I remember of North Korea:
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oni su ti po kojima
pamtim Sjevernu Koreju:
pamtim Sjevernu Koreju:
11:04
humans just like us.
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po ljudima poput nas.
11:07
North Koreans and I were not
ambassadors of our countries,
ambassadors of our countries,
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Sjeverni Korejci i ja nismo
bili izaslanici svojih zemalja,
bili izaslanici svojih zemalja,
11:13
but I believe that we were representing
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ali vjerujem da smo predstavljali
11:16
the human race.
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čovječanstvo.
11:20
Now I'm back home and back to my life.
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Vratila sam se kući
i svome životu.
i svome životu.
11:24
The memory of these people
has blurred as time has passed.
has blurred as time has passed.
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Sjećanje na te ljude
s vremenom je postalo malo mutno.
s vremenom je postalo malo mutno.
11:29
And I'm in this place
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Sada sam ovdje
11:31
where I read and hear
about North Korea provoking the US.
about North Korea provoking the US.
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gdje čitam i slušam kako
Sjeverna Koreja provocira SAD.
Sjeverna Koreja provocira SAD.
11:36
I realized how easy it is
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Shvatila sam koliko je lako
11:39
to see them as an enemy again.
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opet ih gledati kao neprijatelje.
11:43
But I have to keep reminding myself
that when I was over there,
that when I was over there,
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Ali moram se podsjećati
da kada sam bila ondje,
da kada sam bila ondje,
11:49
I was able to see humanity
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mogla sam vidjeti ljudskost
11:52
over hatred
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nad mržnjom
11:53
in my enemy's eyes.
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u očima neprijatelja.
11:56
Thank you.
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Hvala.
11:58
(Applause)
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(Pljesak).
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Euna Lee - JournalistEuna Lee strives to be a voice for the voiceless and a window for those with no access to outside information.
Why you should listen
A seasoned journalist with more than years of experience, Euna Lee is a television executive producer for Voice of America's Korean Service (VOA). Prior to VOA, she worked for Fusion media, AJ+ and Al Jazeera TV networks.
Lee’s name became widely known after she was captured by the North Korean regime while covering a human trafficking story for Current TV, a cable network co-founded by former Vice President Al Gore. She wrote a memoir, The World is Bigger Now, about her experience while detained in North Korea for 140 days.
Lee has received various awards for her fearless work, including McGill Medal by University of Georgia and Glamour magazine's Women of the Year Award in 2009. At VOA, she strives to be a voice for the voiceless and a window for those with no access to outside information. Born and raised in South Korea, Lee holds a master’s degree in journalism from Columbia University.
Euna Lee | Speaker | TED.com