TEDxPurdueU
Jonathan Wilker: What sticky sea creatures can teach us about making glue
喬納森威爾克: 黏黏的海洋生物教我們如何製造膠水
Filmed:
Readability: 3.3
347,094 views
貽貝、牡蠣和藤壺──如果我們能利用這類能抵擋風大、潮濕海岸線動物所擁有之製造黏液的能力，會怎樣呢?
跟著喬納森威爾克一同探索這些能自行製造黏液的動物，觀察我們可以向牠們習得的奇妙知識。
Jonathan Wilker - Scientist, engineer
Jonathan Wilker explores the science and engineering happening within our oceans. He works to understand the ways that sea creatures survive and how we can adapt their technologies to create new materials. Full bio
Jonathan Wilker explores the science and engineering happening within our oceans. He works to understand the ways that sea creatures survive and how we can adapt their technologies to create new materials. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
我想邀請各位跟我
來一趟野外考察之旅
來一趟野外考察之旅
00:13
So I'd like you to join me
on a field trip,
on a field trip,
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帶你們全部一起去海灘
00:16
and I want to go to the beach,
and take you all to the beach
and take you all to the beach
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享受一下海風和鹽霧
00:18
and so enjoy the sea air
and the salt spray.
and the salt spray.
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然後一起下到海水邊
00:21
And let's go down to the water's edge,
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你會發現海浪正打著我們
00:23
and you're going to notice is
we're getting knocked around by the waves,
we're getting knocked around by the waves,
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要原地不動真的很難
00:26
and it's really difficult
to stay in place.
to stay in place.
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00:28
But now, look down,
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但，現在往下看
00:30
and what you're going to see
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你會發現
石頭被海洋生物包覆著
00:32
is that the rocks are covered
by all sorts of sea creatures
by all sorts of sea creatures
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牠們一動也不動
00:35
that are just staying
there in place, no problem.
there in place, no problem.
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一點問題也沒有
原來，如果你想在
非常困苦的環境生存
非常困苦的環境生存
00:37
And it turns out
that if you want to survive
that if you want to survive
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00:40
in this really demanding environment,
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製造黏液的能力
將決定你使否能夠存活
將決定你使否能夠存活
00:41
your very existence is dependent
upon your ability to make glue, actually.
upon your ability to make glue, actually.
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00:46
So let me introduce you
to some of the heroes of our story,
to some of the heroes of our story,
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現在我來介紹一下
這個故事中的幾位主角
這個故事中的幾位主角
這邊講幾個就好
00:50
just a few of them.
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00:51
So these are mussels,
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這些是河蚌
00:52
and you'll notice
they're covering the rocks.
they're covering the rocks.
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你會發現牠們包覆了石頭
00:55
They've made adhesives,
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牠們製造黏液黏在石頭上
00:56
and they're sticking down on the rocks,
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00:58
and they're also sticking
to each other, actually.
to each other, actually.
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而牠們也相互黏著
全部躲在一起
01:01
So they're hunkered down
together as a group.
together as a group.
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這張是牡蠣礁石的特寫照
01:03
This is a close-up photograph
of an oyster reef,
of an oyster reef,
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01:06
and oysters, they're amazing.
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牡蠣很奇妙
01:08
What they do is they cement to each other,
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牠們彼此緊黏
並打造這些巨大、
廣闊的礁石系統
廣闊的礁石系統
01:11
and they build these huge,
extensive reef systems.
extensive reef systems.
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01:14
They can be kilometers long,
they can be meters deep,
they can be meters deep,
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它們可以長達數公里、
深達數公尺
深達數公尺
01:17
and arguably, they're the most
dominant influence
dominant influence
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他們對沿岸海洋生態系的運作
01:20
on how healthy any coastal
marine ecosystem is going to be,
marine ecosystem is going to be,
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可說是有最重大影響
01:23
because what they do
is they're filtering the water constantly,
is they're filtering the water constantly,
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因為牠們時常過濾海水
把沙塵和水分開
01:26
they're holding sand and dirt in place.
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01:28
Actually, other species live
inside of these reefs.
inside of these reefs.
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其他生物其實也住在這些礁石裡
再來，想看看
如果暴風雨來襲會怎樣?
如果暴風雨來襲會怎樣?
01:31
And then, if you think about
what happens when a storm comes in,
what happens when a storm comes in,
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如果暴風雨來臨
01:34
if the storm surge
first has to hit miles of these reefs,
first has to hit miles of these reefs,
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會先打到這好幾英里長的礁石
01:38
the coast behind it
is going to be protected.
is going to be protected.
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而後面的海岸會被保護住
01:40
So they're really quite influential.
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所以它們頗重要的
01:43
If you've been to any rocky beach
pretty much anywhere in the world,
pretty much anywhere in the world,
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如果你有去過礁石海岸
全世界其實都差不多
你可能很熟悉藤壺的長相
01:47
you're probably familiar
with what barnacles look like.
with what barnacles look like.
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這些動物──
01:49
What these animals do --
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其實還有很多其他的動物，
這裡只講了三個──
這裡只講了三個──
01:50
and there's many others,
these are just three of them --
these are just three of them --
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牠們製造黏著劑
01:53
is they make adhesives,
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彼此相黏，並黏著石頭
01:54
they stick to each other,
they stick to the rocks
they stick to the rocks
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然後建立群落
01:57
and they build communities,
and by doing this,
and by doing this,
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這樣一來，他們得到許多生存優勢
01:59
there's a lot of survival
advantages they get.
advantages they get.
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02:01
So one of them is that just any individual
is subjected to less of the turbulence
is subjected to less of the turbulence
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其中一個優勢是
個體受到亂流
及其他環境損傷的影響較小
及其他環境損傷的影響較小
02:07
and all the damaging features
that can happen from that environment.
that can happen from that environment.
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02:11
So they're all hunkered down there.
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所以牠們一起在那裡躲著
其他的優勢也包括安全
02:12
Then, also, there's a safety
in numbers thing,
in numbers thing,
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02:15
because it also helps you
keep away the predators,
keep away the predators,
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因為這麼做也幫他們遠離狩獵者
因爲，假設一下
02:19
because if, say, a seagull
wants to pick you up and eat you,
wants to pick you up and eat you,
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一隻海鷗想把你叼起來吃掉
02:22
it's more difficult for the seagull
if they're all stuck together.
if they're all stuck together.
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黏在一起便使海鷗比較難抓
另一點是有助於有效繁衍
02:25
And then another thing is it also helps
with reproductive efficiency.
with reproductive efficiency.
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想像一下，
當藤壺先生和藤壺太太決定說：
當藤壺先生和藤壺太太決定說：
02:28
So you can imagine
that when Mr. and Mrs. Barnacle decide,
that when Mr. and Mrs. Barnacle decide,
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02:31
"OK, it's time to have
little baby barnacles" --
little baby barnacles" --
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「是生小寶寶的時候了」
我先不告訴你他們怎麼做的
02:34
I won't tell you
how they do that just yet --
how they do that just yet --
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02:36
but when they decide it's time to do that,
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但當牠們覺得時候到了
02:39
it's a lot easier and their reproductive
efficiency is higher
efficiency is higher
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住在旁邊比較方便
繁衍效率也比較高
繁衍效率也比較高
02:42
if they're all living close together.
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我們想了解牠們如何做到，
如何黏在一起
如何黏在一起
02:44
So we want to understand
how they do this, how do they stick,
how they do this, how do they stick,
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02:49
and I can't really tell you
all the details,
all the details,
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我不能告訴你所有的細節
02:51
because it's something
we're still trying to figure out,
we're still trying to figure out,
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因為我們還在研究
但我想先讓你們看一些我們在做的事
02:54
but let me give you a little flavor
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02:56
of some of the things
that we're trying to do.
that we're trying to do.
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這張圖片
是我們實驗室中的一個水族系統
是我們實驗室中的一個水族系統
02:58
This is a picture of one of the aquarium
systems we have in our lab,
systems we have in our lab,
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03:02
and everything in the image
is part of the system,
is part of the system,
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圖中所有的東西都是系統的一環
03:05
and so what we do is we keep --
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我們做的就是──
03:07
and you can see in the glass tank there
in the bottom, there's a bunch of mussels,
in the bottom, there's a bunch of mussels,
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看得到玻璃箱底部有一些河蚌──
我們將水冷卻，讓光線循環
03:11
we have the water chilled,
we have the lights cycled,
we have the lights cycled,
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我們也讓系統有亂流
03:13
we actually have turbulence in the system
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因為當水流不穩定時
03:15
because the animals make
more adhesives for us
more adhesives for us
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這些動物可以為我們
製造多一點黏著劑
製造多一點黏著劑
03:17
when the water is turbulent.
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03:19
So we induce them to make the adhesive,
we collect it, we study it.
we collect it, we study it.
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我們誘導他們製造黏液
並收集這些黏液做研究
03:22
They're here in Indiana.
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牠們現在在這裡，印第安納州
03:24
As far as they know,
they're in Maine in February,
they're in Maine in February,
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但就牠們所知
牠們身處於二月的緬因州
牠們身處於二月的緬因州
就我們看來，牠們頗快樂的
03:27
and they seem to be pretty happy,
as far as we can tell.
as far as we can tell.
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03:30
And then we also work with oysters,
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我們也研究牡蠣
上方的圖片
是個在南卡羅蘭納州的小礁石
是個在南卡羅蘭納州的小礁石
03:32
and up top, it's a photo
of a small reef in South Carolina,
of a small reef in South Carolina,
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我們最感興趣的是
牠們如何貼著彼此
牠們如何貼著彼此
03:37
and what we're most interested in
is seeing how they attach to each other,
is seeing how they attach to each other,
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如何互相連結
03:41
how they connect.
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03:42
And so what you can see
in the bottom image
in the bottom image
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你在下方的圖片可以看到
有兩隻牡蠣互相黏著
03:44
is there's two oysters
that are cementing to each other.
that are cementing to each other.
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我們想知道牠們中間有什麼
03:46
And we want to know what's in between,
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以我們會常常把他們分開
然後觀察
然後觀察
03:48
and so a lot of times,
we'll cut them and look down,
we'll cut them and look down,
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在下一組圖片可以看到
03:51
and in the next series
of images we have here,
of images we have here,
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03:53
you can see, on the bottom,
we'll have two shells,
we'll have two shells,
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下方的圖片有兩個殼
03:56
the shell of one animal
and the shell of another animal,
and the shell of another animal,
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一個動物的殼和另一個動物的殼
還有他們中間的黏著物
03:58
and the cement's in between.
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如果你看右邊的圖
04:00
And if you look at the image on the right,
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你可能會看見
04:02
what you can maybe see
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04:03
is that there's structure
in the shell of each animal,
in the shell of each animal,
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每個動物的殼中都存著結構
但黏著物看起來就不一樣
04:07
but then, the cement
actually looks different.
actually looks different.
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所以我們用了有的沒的
生物、化學儀器
生物、化學儀器
04:09
And so we're using all sorts
of fancy biology and chemistry tools
of fancy biology and chemistry tools
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來了解這裡面是什麼
04:13
to understand what's going on in there,
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我們發現它們的結構不同
04:15
and what we're finding
is the structures are different
is the structures are different
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04:17
and the chemistry is actually different,
and it's quite interesting.
and it's quite interesting.
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它們的化學成分也不一樣
而這頗有趣的
再來這張圖片
04:22
And then this picture --
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在告訴你們這是什麼之前
04:24
I guess let me step back
before I tell you what this is.
before I tell you what this is.
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我想先講一下──
04:27
So do you know the cartoon
"The Magic School Bus"?
"The Magic School Bus"?
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你們知道卡通《魔法校車》嗎？
04:32
Or if you're a little bit older,
"Fantastic Voyage," right?
"Fantastic Voyage," right?
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或《奇幻旅程》，
如果你年紀較長的話？
如果你年紀較長的話？
那你可能記得這些卡通
04:35
And you remember,
they had these characters
they had these characters
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會把裡面的角色縮成微粒般
04:37
that they would shrink down
to these microscopic levels,
to these microscopic levels,
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然後在一番天旋地轉之後
04:40
and then they would sort of swirl in
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或游或飛，探索這些生物構造
04:42
and swim around and fly around
all these biological structures?
all these biological structures?
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我把這想像成卡通那樣，
不過是真的就是了
不過是真的就是了
04:45
I think of this as like that,
except for it's real, in this case.
except for it's real, in this case.
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04:49
And so what we did is we have
two oysters that are stuck together,
two oysters that are stuck together,
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我們有兩個黏在一起的牡蠣
這個區域之前全都被黏著物填滿
04:53
and this area used to be
completely filled in with the cement,
completely filled in with the cement,
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我們發現這個黏著物是由
04:57
and what we're finding is that the cement
has lots of different components in there,
has lots of different components in there,
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許多不同的成分組和而成
05:01
but broadly speaking,
there are hard, non-sticky parts
there are hard, non-sticky parts
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但大體來說
這裡面有分為
堅硬且不具黏性的部份
堅硬且不具黏性的部份
05:04
and there are soft, sticky parts,
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和軟黏的部份
05:05
and what we did is we removed
the non-sticky parts selectively
the non-sticky parts selectively
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我們選擇性地移除不黏的部分
然後來看
連接動物們的東西中剩下什麼
連接動物們的東西中剩下什麼
05:09
to see what's left for what's actually
attaching the animals,
attaching the animals,
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我們發現這個
05:12
and what we got is this, and we can see
there's this sticky adhesive
there's this sticky adhesive
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我們可以看到這個黏著劑
把兩個動物連在一起
05:16
that's holding them together.
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我覺得這張圖真的很酷
05:17
And I just think it's a really cool image,
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因為你可以想像自己飛進去
05:19
because you can imagine yourself flying in
and going back there.
and going back there.
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以上就是我們為了解
海洋生物如何製造這些物質
海洋生物如何製造這些物質
05:22
Anyways, those are some of the things
we're doing to understand
we're doing to understand
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05:26
how marine biology
is making these materials.
is making these materials.
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所做的研究
從根本的角度來看，
得到這些知識十分令人興奮
得到這些知識十分令人興奮
05:28
And from a fundamental perspective,
it's really exciting to learn.
it's really exciting to learn.
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05:32
But what we do want
to do with this information?
to do with this information?
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但有了這些知識要做什麼呢？
如果我們可以利用
這些動物所生產的
這些動物所生產的
05:34
Well, there's a lot
of technological applications
of technological applications
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那麼其實可有許多
科技上的運用
科技上的運用
05:36
if we can harness
what the animals are doing.
what the animals are doing.
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05:39
So let me give you one example.
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給各位一個例子
05:41
So imagine you're at home
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想像你在家裡
你打破最愛的小塑像
或馬克杯或類似的東西
或馬克杯或類似的東西
05:43
and you break your favorite figurine
or a mug or something like that?
or a mug or something like that?
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你想把它拼回去
05:46
You want to put it back together.
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05:48
So where do you go?
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你會去哪裡呢?
05:49
You go to my favorite place in town,
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會去到我最喜歡去的地方──
五金行賣膠水的走道
05:52
which is the glue aisle
of the hardware store.
of the hardware store.
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我知道各位如何度過你們的夜晚
05:55
I know where you spend your nights,
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05:57
because you're all hip,
cool people, because you're here,
cool people, because you're here,
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你們都很時髦，因為你們在這裡
你們會去酒吧、演唱會之類的
05:59
and you're going to the bars
and concerts --
and concerts --
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而我每晚就到這裡晃晃
06:02
this is where I hang out every night.
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喔，我想叫你們做的事就是
06:03
So anyways, so what I want you to do
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06:05
is get one of every adhesive
that's on the shelf,
that's on the shelf,
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把架上所有的黏膠買回去
06:08
bring it home,
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但在你把東西拼回去之前
06:09
but before you try
to put things back together,
to put things back together,
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我想請你先在水下試試
06:12
I want you to try to do it
in a bucket of water.
in a bucket of water.
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06:15
It's not going to work, right?
We all know this.
We all know this.
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拼不起來，對吧？
這是眾所皆知的
這是眾所皆知的
06:17
So obviously, marine biology
has solved this,
has solved this,
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很顯然海洋生物解決了這個問題
06:19
so what we need to do is figure out
ways to be able to copy this ourselves.
ways to be able to copy this ourselves.
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而我們需要做得事就是
想辦法複製這個解方
想辦法複製這個解方
06:24
And one of the issues here is,
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其中有個問題
06:26
you can't just go and get
the materials from the beach,
the materials from the beach,
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你不能直接去海邊收集這些物質
06:29
because if you get a bunch of mussels
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因為如果你去抓一堆的貽貝
然後試著擠出裡面的黏液
06:30
and try to milk them for their adhesive,
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你只能得到一點點
06:32
you'll get a little bit of material,
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但那永遠不夠你拿來做事
06:34
but you're never going to have enough
to do anything with,
to do anything with,
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只能看而已
06:37
just enough to see.
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我們需要提升這個規模
06:38
We need to scale this up,
ideally maybe train car scale.
ideally maybe train car scale.
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最好能有一輛列車這麼多
上面的圖片顯示的是
06:41
So on the top is an image
of one of the types of molecules
of one of the types of molecules
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動物們做黏膠時
會用到的一種分子
會用到的一種分子
06:46
that the animals are using
to make their glue,
to make their glue,
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它們是種很長的分子
叫做「蛋白質」
叫做「蛋白質」
06:48
and what they are is they're very long
molecules, they're called proteins,
molecules, they're called proteins,
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這些蛋白質分子中有獨特的成分
06:51
and these proteins happen to have
some fairly unique parts in them
some fairly unique parts in them
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06:55
that bring about the adhesive properties.
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可以產生黏著的特性
06:57
What we want to do is take
those little parts of that chemistry,
those little parts of that chemistry,
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我們取那化學成份的一小部分
放到我們取得的其他長分子中
07:00
and we want to put it
into other long molecules that we can get
into other long molecules that we can get
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07:04
but things that we can make
on a really large scale,
on a really large scale,
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這要是我們能大量製造的物質
你可能稱這些物質
「塑料」或「聚合物」
「塑料」或「聚合物」
07:06
so you might know them
as plastics or polymers,
as plastics or polymers,
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我們有點簡化它們的作用
07:08
and so we're sort of
simplifying what they do,
simplifying what they do,
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但就是把那個
黏性化學成分放到這些大分子
黏性化學成分放到這些大分子
07:11
but then putting that adhesion chemistry
into these large molecules.
into these large molecules.
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07:14
And we've developed many different
adhesive systems in doing this,
adhesive systems in doing this,
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如此，我們研發出
許多不同的黏質系統
許多不同的黏質系統
那當你製造出
一個看起來不錯的新黏膠
一個看起來不錯的新黏膠
07:17
and when you make
a new adhesive that looks pretty good,
a new adhesive that looks pretty good,
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你會怎麼做呢?
07:20
what do you do?
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你會開始在實驗室裡黏東黏西
07:21
You start running around the lab,
just sticking stuff together.
just sticking stuff together.
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在這個例子裡，我們拿一點點黏膠
把兩塊金屬黏起來
把兩塊金屬黏起來
07:24
We took a tiny bit of a glue
and glued together two pieces of metal
and glued together two pieces of metal
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然後我們想在上面掛點東西
07:27
and we wanted to hang something from it,
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07:29
so we used a pot of live mussels
and thought we were very clever.
and thought we were very clever.
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所以我們吊了一桶活貽貝
自己覺得很聰明
07:33
(Laughs)
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（笑聲）
當然我們常常把這量化了
07:34
We're obviously much more
quantitative about this most often,
quantitative about this most often,
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07:37
and so we benchmark
against commercial adhesives,
against commercial adhesives,
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所以我們拿去
跟市面上的黏著劑比較
跟市面上的黏著劑比較
然後發現
07:40
and we actually have some materials now
that are stronger than superglue.
that are stronger than superglue.
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現在我們有一些
比強力膠還牢固的物質
比強力膠還牢固的物質
07:44
So to me, that's really cool.
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對我來說這很酷
這是實驗室的好日子，
這膠比強力膠還牢固
這膠比強力膠還牢固
07:45
That's a good day in the lab.
It's stronger than superglue.
It's stronger than superglue.
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07:48
And here's something else that we can do.
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這是另一個我們能做的
07:51
So this is a tank of seawater,
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這是一缸的海水
那個注射器裡
有我們的黏膠配方
有我們的黏膠配方
07:53
and then, in that syringe
is one of our adhesive formulations,
is one of our adhesive formulations,
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07:57
and what we're doing is
we're dispensing it completely underwater,
we're dispensing it completely underwater,
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我們在水下
把黏膠擠到金屬片上
把黏膠擠到金屬片上
08:00
on a piece of metal.
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然後我們要製造一個黏合點
08:01
And then, we want to make
an adhesive bond, or joint,
an adhesive bond, or joint,
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所以我們拿另一片個金屬片
08:04
and so we take another piece of metal
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把它放在那裡，調整好位置
08:06
and we put it on there
and just position it.
and just position it.
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08:09
And you want to let it set up
for a while, give it a chance,
for a while, give it a chance,
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之後要讓膠乾一下，給它點時間
08:13
so we'll just put a weight
on it, nothing fancy.
on it, nothing fancy.
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在上面施加點力，沒多複雜
08:15
This is a tube with lead shot
in it, nothing fancy.
in it, nothing fancy.
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這就是個含鉛的管子
沒什麼花俏的
沒什麼花俏的
然後你就放著等它一下
08:18
And then you let it sit for a while.
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這完全沒有接觸到空氣，完全在水下
08:20
So this has never seen air.
It's completely underwater.
It's completely underwater.
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你把它拿起來
08:23
And you pick it up.
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每次到這裡我就很緊張
08:24
I never know what's going to happen.
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我永遠不知道會發生什麼事
08:26
I'm always very anxious here.
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拿起來…
08:28
Pick it up ...
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08:29
and it's stuck.
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它黏住了
我覺得這很酷
08:31
To me, this is really cool.
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我們這有很強的水下附著力
08:32
So we can actually get
very strong underwater adhesion.
very strong underwater adhesion.
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這可能是史上最強的水下黏著劑
08:36
Possibly, it's the strongest
or at least one of the strongest
or at least one of the strongest
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不然也是最強的之一
08:39
underwater adhesives
that's ever been seen.
that's ever been seen.
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這甚至比動物製造的物質還要牢固
08:41
It's even stronger than the materials
that the animals produce,
that the animals produce,
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所以對我們來說
這挺令人興奮、挺酷的
這挺令人興奮、挺酷的
08:45
so for us, it's pretty exciting.
It's pretty cool.
It's pretty cool.
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那我們拿這些東西要做什麼呢？
08:47
So what do we want to do
with these things?
with these things?
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08:49
Well, here are some products
that you're probably really familiar with.
that you're probably really familiar with.
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下面有些你可能很熟悉的產品
想一下你的手機、筆電，
大部分的膠合板
大部分的膠合板
08:53
So think about your cell phone,
your laptop, plywood in most structures,
your laptop, plywood in most structures,
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08:58
the interior of your car, shoes,
phone books, things like this.
phone books, things like this.
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你車子的內裝、鞋子、電話簿
諸如此類的東西
諸如此類的東西
09:01
They're all held together with adhesives,
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它們皆由黏著劑接合而成
09:03
and there's two main problems
with the adhesives
with the adhesives
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而這些產品所用的黏著劑
有兩個大問題
09:06
used in these materials.
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第一，它們有毒
09:07
The first one is that they're toxic.
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09:09
So the worst offender here is plywood.
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最糟的是膠合板
09:12
Plywood, or a lot of furniture,
or wood laminate in floors --
or wood laminate in floors --
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膠合板、許多的傢俱
和木質層壓的地板
和木質層壓的地板
所用的黏著劑中
「甲醛」是主要的成分
「甲醛」是主要的成分
09:15
a main component of the adhesives
here is formaldehyde,
here is formaldehyde,
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也許你聽過這個物質
09:20
and it's maybe a compound you've heard of.
206
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2001
09:22
It's a gas, and it's also a carcinogen,
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它是一種氣體，也是致癌物
09:25
and so we're constructing
a lot of structures from these adhesives,
a lot of structures from these adhesives,
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所以當我們拿這些黏著劑來建構時
我們也吸入許多的致癌物
09:29
and we're also breathing
a lot of this carcinogen.
a lot of this carcinogen.
209
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09:31
So not good, obviously. Right?
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顯然，這不太妙，對吧？
09:33
The other issue is that these adhesives
are all permanent.
are all permanent.
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另一個問題是
這些黏著劑都是永久的
這些黏著劑都是永久的
09:36
And so what do you do with your shoes
or your car or even your laptop
or your car or even your laptop
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當你的鞋子、車或筆電壽終正寢
你不想再用的時候，
你會怎麼做呢？
你會怎麼做呢？
09:39
at the end of life,
when you're done using it?
when you're done using it?
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09:41
For the most part,
they end up in landfills.
they end up in landfills.
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這些東西的很大一部分
都進到垃圾掩埋場
都進到垃圾掩埋場
而其中有許多貴重的原料
09:43
And there's a lot
of precious materials in there
of precious materials in there
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我們會想把它們取出來回收
09:46
we'd love to be able to get out
and recycle them.
and recycle them.
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但這並不容易做到
09:48
We can't do it so easily
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因為它們全都被膠
永遠地黏在一起
永遠地黏在一起
09:49
because they're all stuck
together permanently.
together permanently.
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為要解決這個問題
我們嘗試一個辦法
我們嘗試一個辦法
09:52
So here's one approach we're taking
to try and solve some of these problems,
to try and solve some of these problems,
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3651
09:55
and what we've done here
is we've taken another long molecule
is we've taken another long molecule
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我們從玉米中
取出另一個長分子
10:00
that we can actually get from corn,
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然後將貽貝中的
黏性化學成分放入其中
黏性化學成分放入其中
10:02
and then into that molecule,
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10:04
we've put some of the adhesion
chemistry from the mussels.
chemistry from the mussels.
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2793
因為我們用了玉米
又用了貽貝
又用了貽貝
10:06
So because we've got the corn
and we've got the mussels,
and we've got the mussels,
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所以我們稱它為「海田聚合物」
10:09
we call this our surf-and-turf polymer.
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它黏得住
10:11
And it sticks. It sticks really well.
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而且成效很好，很牢固
10:13
It's very strong.
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同時，它主要也是由生物組成的
10:15
It's also bio-based. That's nice.
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這點不錯
但也許這裡更重要的一點是
它也可被分解
它也可被分解
10:17
But maybe more importantly, here,
it's also degradable,
it's also degradable,
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10:19
and we can degrade it
under very mild conditions, with water.
under very mild conditions, with water.
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我們可不費力地把它分解
像是用水
10:23
And so what we can do
is we can set things up
is we can set things up
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所以，我們可以在需要時
把東西黏得很牢固
10:25
and we can bond them
strongly when we want,
strongly when we want,
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2745
而我們也可以將之拆解
10:27
but then we can also take them apart.
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這是我們正在研究的
10:30
It's something we're thinking about.
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10:31
And here is a place
where a lot of us want to be.
where a lot of us want to be.
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3454
這是我們都想要的
或就這件事來說
10:35
Well, actually, in this specific case,
this is a place we do not want to be,
this is a place we do not want to be,
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這是我們所不希望遇到的
我們想取代這個
10:39
but we'd like to replace this.
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縫線、釘子、螺絲
10:40
So sutures, staples, screws:
238
628688
2003
我們在你開完刀或有傷口時
10:42
this is how we put you back together
if you've had some surgery or an injury.
if you've had some surgery or an injury.
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會用這些工具把你拼回去
這實在很糟
10:46
It's just awful. It hurts.
240
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這很痛
10:48
In the case of the sutures,
look at how much you're making
look at how much you're making
241
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5151
舉縫線為例
當你要縫合的時候
要集中施加多少機械力
10:53
concentrated, mechanical stresses
as you pull things together.
as you pull things together.
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還會製造感染的溫床
10:56
You're making sites for infection.
243
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1761
在健康的組織裡戳洞不太好
10:58
Poke holes in healthy tissue.
It's not so good.
It's not so good.
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2390
11:01
Or if you need a plate
to hold together your bones,
to hold together your bones,
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3238
又像是你要用一塊板子把骨頭固定住
11:04
look at how much healthy bone
you have to drill out
you have to drill out
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2391
看看你得鑽多少健康的骨頭
只為了把板子固定住？
只為了把板子固定住？
11:06
just to hold the plate in place.
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這真的很糟
11:08
So this is awful.
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我覺得這些像在中古世紀
刑求室所發明的東西
刑求室所發明的東西
11:09
To me, it looks like these were things
devised in a medieval torture chamber,
devised in a medieval torture chamber,
249
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3739
但這是我們的現代外科工藝
11:13
but it's our modern surgical joinery.
250
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1782
所以我想有一天
11:15
So I'd love it if we could replace
systems like these with adhesives.
systems like these with adhesives.
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5208
用這些黏著劑來取代這套系統
我們正在努力，但這並不簡單
11:20
We're working on this,
but this is not easy.
but this is not easy.
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想想看黏著劑
要應用在這些用途上
要應用在這些用途上
11:23
So think about what you would need
for adhesives in these cases.
for adhesives in these cases.
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3055
需有什麼特性
11:26
So first of all, you would need
an adhesive that is going to set
an adhesive that is going to set
254
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3247
第一，它會需要耐的住潮濕的環境
11:29
in a wet environment.
255
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1557
如果你看一下這張呆呆的圖片
11:31
And if you look at the silly
little picture there,
little picture there,
256
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2391
這張圖說明
我們的身體有百分之 60 是水
我們的身體有百分之 60 是水
11:33
it's just to illustrate that our bodies
are about 60 percent water,
are about 60 percent water,
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所以我們的身體是個潮濕的環境
11:38
so it's a wet environment.
258
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1296
11:39
It's also to illustrate that this is why
I am a scientist and not an artist.
I am a scientist and not an artist.
259
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4183
這張圖也說明了
我為什麼是科學家
而不是藝術家
而不是藝術家
11:43
I did not miss my calling at all.
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我完全沒有選錯職業
11:46
So then the other requirements
you need for a good biomedical adhesive:
you need for a good biomedical adhesive:
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一個好的生醫黏著劑
要有另一個條件
要有另一個條件
11:50
it needs to bond strongly, of course,
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當然，它要能黏合得很牢固
11:52
and it needs to not be toxic.
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而且它要是無毒的
11:54
You don't want to hurt the patients.
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你不會想害你的病人
一個物質要滿足
任意兩個條件很容易
任意兩個條件很容易
11:56
And getting any two of those requirements
in a material is pretty easy.
in a material is pretty easy.
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這被做很多次了
12:00
It's been done many times.
But getting all three hasn't been done.
But getting all three hasn't been done.
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但要滿足全部三個條件
便十分困難
便十分困難
12:03
It's very hard.
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倘若你去問醫生，他們會很挑剔
12:04
And if you start talking to surgeons,
they get picky --
they get picky --
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他們會說
12:07
"Oh, actually I want the adhesive to set
on the same time frame as the surgery."
on the same time frame as the surgery."
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「嗯，我想要黏著劑在手術時乾」
或是「嗯，我想要黏著劑能夠分解
12:11
Or, "Oh, I want the adhesive to degrade
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這樣病人的組織才能重組」
12:14
so the patient's tissues
can remodel the site."
can remodel the site."
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12:16
So this is really hard.
We're working on it.
We're working on it.
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這實在很困難。我們正在努力
這是我們拍的一張照片
12:20
This is just one image we have.
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12:22
So what we're doing is we're getting
all sorts of bones and skin
all sorts of bones and skin
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我們去找各種的骨頭，皮膚
軟組織，硬組織──
12:25
and soft and hard tissue, and sometimes
we'll whack it with a hammer.
we'll whack it with a hammer.
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我們有時候會用鐵鎚敲擊
通常我們會把它切成精確的形狀
12:28
Usually, we're cutting it
in precise shapes.
in precise shapes.
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然後再把他們黏回去
12:30
And then we glue them back together.
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我們得一到些令人興奮的成果
12:32
We've got some exciting results,
some strong materials,
some strong materials,
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一些強韌的物質
一些看起來無毒、耐潮的東西
12:35
some things that look
like they're not toxic,
like they're not toxic,
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12:37
they set wet,
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但我不會告訴你們
我們解決了潮濕黏著的問題
我們解決了潮濕黏著的問題
12:38
but I'm not going to tell you
we've solved the wet adhesion problem,
we've solved the wet adhesion problem,
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因為我們還沒完成
12:41
because we haven't,
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但這絕對是在我們的未來
可預期的目標
可預期的目標
12:43
but it's certainly
in our sights for the future.
in our sights for the future.
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這是件我們希望看到
有更多發展的事
有更多發展的事
12:45
So that's one place that we'd like
to see things go farther down the road.
to see things go farther down the road.
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12:49
And there are a lot of other places, too,
you can imagine we might be better off
you can imagine we might be better off
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你可以想像還有很多其他的領域
如果可以取得更多的黏著劑
我們的生活可能會更好
我們的生活可能會更好
12:53
if we could get more adhesives in there.
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像是化妝品
12:55
Even cosmetics.
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想一下有些人戴假指甲或假睫毛
12:56
So if you think about people putting on
fake nails or eyelash extensions,
fake nails or eyelash extensions,
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13:01
what do they use?
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他們用什麼？
13:03
They use very toxic adhesives right now.
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他們目前用的是毒性很強的黏著劑
13:05
So it's just ripe for replacement.
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是時候把它換掉了
這是我們想做的事
13:07
That's something we'd like to do.
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還有很多其他的領域
13:08
And then there are other places too.
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想一想車子和飛機
13:10
So think about cars and planes.
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它們越輕越省油
13:12
The lighter you can make them,
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13:13
the more fuel-efficient
they're going to be.
they're going to be.
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所以如果我們可以
13:15
And so if we can get away from rivets
and get away from welding
and get away from welding
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更多地以黏著劑
代替鉚釘和焊接
13:18
and put more adhesives in there,
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13:20
then we might be better off
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我們未來的運輸和生活可能會更好
13:21
with our future generation
of transportation.
of transportation.
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13:24
So for us, this all
comes back to the beach.
comes back to the beach.
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對我們來說
這一切都回到沙灘
13:28
So we look around and we wonder,
"How do these sea creatures stick?
"How do these sea creatures stick?
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我們看看四周，然後想問
「這些海洋生物時如何黏起來的？」
13:32
And what can we do with the technology?"
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「我們可以把這項技術拿來做什麼？」
我認為我們還有很多
13:34
And I would argue that we have
really a lot of things we can still learn
really a lot of things we can still learn
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可以向生物向大自然學習的地方
13:38
from biology and from nature.
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所以我想鼓勵各位在將來
13:39
So what I would like to encourage
you all to do in the future
you all to do in the future
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放下你那不能回收的電腦和手機
13:43
is put down your nonrecyclable
laptops and cell phones
laptops and cell phones
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13:48
and go out and explore the natural world
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走到戶外，探索大自然
並提出你你自己的問題
13:50
and then start asking
some of your own questions.
some of your own questions.
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13:52
Thanks very much.
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謝謝
（掌聲）
13:54
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jonathan Wilker - Scientist, engineerJonathan Wilker explores the science and engineering happening within our oceans. He works to understand the ways that sea creatures survive and how we can adapt their technologies to create new materials.
Why you should listen
Jonathan Wilker is a professor of chemistry and materials engineering at Purdue University in West Lafayette, Indiana, US. Prior to arriving at Purdue in 1999, he received a bachelor's degree from the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, a PhD at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and was a postdoctoral scholar at the California Institute of Technology. His research has been recognized with a Beckman Young Investigator Award, an Alfred P. Sloan Research Fellowship and a National Science Foundation Faculty Early Career Development (CAREER) Award. His teaching has also received several awards at Purdue. He is always on the lookout for new projects when at the beach or while underwater scuba diving.
Jonathan Wilker | Speaker | TED.com