ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Sajay Samuel - Educator
Professor Sajay Samuel's proposal to reduce the burden of student loans is part of his larger preoccupation with thinking beyond the conventional categories of economics and ecology.

Why you should listen

Sajay Samuel is an award winning professor of accounting at the Smeal College of Business at Penn State University. He has organized seminars and lectured widely in Europe and elsewhere on a range of topics, including science and technology, the political economy of professions and decision theory.

Samuel received his Masters in Accounting and Ph.D in Business Administration from Penn State University in 1990 and 1995 respectively. Since then he has taught management accounting and related subjects to undergraduates, graduates, MBAs and Executives over assignments that included stints at Bucknell University and the University of Connecticut. He returned to Penn State in 2003 and now teaches a capstone course to all undergraduate business majors titled, "Business and Industry Analysis."

Samuel was awarded the 2006 Lester J. Shonto Faculty Award for Excellence in Accounting Education. Dr. Samuel's research has been published in such scholarly journals as Accounting, Organizations and Society, Administration Science Quarterly and Symbolic Interaction. His most recent work on accounting, technology and on the history of ideas, has appeared in three articles in the Encyclopedia of Science, Technology and Ethics (2005). His current research aims at clarifying the political implications of accounting practice. His studies in this area concern the political significance of administrative agencies and professional associations in liberal democratic polities. He has presented the early fruits of this work in France, Italy, Germany and England.

More profile about the speaker
Sajay Samuel | Speaker | TED.com
TEDxPSU

Sajay Samuel: How college loans exploit students for profit

萨加依·塞缪尔: 大学助学贷款如何剥削学生而获利

Filmed:
1,313,328 views

萨加依·塞缪尔教授说:”以前在美国上大学不意味着要负债毕业。” 如今,高等教育已然成为了消费品——学费猛然上涨。在学生们总计负债超过一万亿美元时,大学和借贷公司却获取了大量利益。塞缪尔教授提出了一个基本的解决方法:将学费与获得学位后的预计收入相连,从而使学生们对自己的未来做出负责任的决定,享受学习并真正为世界贡献自己的力量。
- Educator
Professor Sajay Samuel's proposal to reduce the burden of student loans is part of his larger preoccupation with thinking beyond the conventional categories of economics and ecology. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
Today今天 40 million百万 Americans美国人 are indebted感激的
for their passage通道 to the new economy经济.
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现在,四千万美国人为了奔小康而背上债务
00:20
Too poor较差的 to pay工资 their way through通过 college学院,
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穷到无法支付自己的大学学费,
00:22
they now owe lenders贷款人
more than one trillion US dollars美元.
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这些人的负债总额已超过一万亿美元。
00:27
They do find what jobs工作 they can get
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的确,他们能找到工作
00:29
to pay工资 off a debt债务
that is secured安全 on their person.
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来偿还以个人名义担保的债务。
00:33
In America美国,
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在美国,
00:35
even a bankrupt破产者 gambler赌徒
gets得到 a second第二 chance机会.
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即使是破产的赌徒也有重来的机会。
00:42
But it is nearly几乎 impossible不可能
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但是一个美国人
00:45
for an American美国 to get discharged出院
their student学生 loan贷款 debts债务.
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想要还清其助学贷款却几乎是不可能的。
00:52
Once一旦 upon a time in America美国,
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以前在美国,
00:55
going to college学院 did not mean
graduating毕业 with debt债务.
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上大学不意味着要负债毕业。
00:59
My friend朋友 Paul's保罗 father父亲
graduated毕业 from Colorado科罗拉多州 State University大学
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我的朋友保罗,他的父亲
在退伍军人法案的帮助下,
01:04
on the GIGI Bill法案.
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从科罗拉多州立大学毕业了。
01:07
For his generation,
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他那个时代,
01:09
higher更高 education教育 was free自由 or almost几乎 free自由,
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高等教育基本上是免费的,
01:12
because it was thought of
as a public上市 good.
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因为当时高等教育被认为是一种公益事业。
01:15
Not anymore.
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现在不是了。
01:18
When Paul保罗 also graduated毕业
from Colorado科罗拉多州 State University大学,
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当保罗也从
科罗拉多州立大学毕业时,
01:22
he paid支付 for his English英语 degree
by working加工 part-time兼职.
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他是通过兼职才拿到了他的英语学位。
01:26
30 years年份 ago,
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30年前,
01:27
higher更高 education教育 tuition学费
was affordable实惠, reasonable合理,
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高等教育的学费定价合理,
大多数人都能支付得起,
01:30
and what debts债务 you accumulated积累,
you paid支付 off by graduation毕业 date日期.
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你欠下的债务在毕业的时候也能还清。
01:33
Not anymore.
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现在就不可能了。
01:35
Paul's保罗 daughter女儿 followed其次 in his footsteps步伐,
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保罗的女儿遵循父辈的足迹
(也去了科罗拉多大学),
01:39
but with one difference区别:
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有一点不同的是,
01:40
when she graduated毕业 five years年份 ago,
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五年前,她毕业的时候
01:43
it was with a whopping高达 debt债务.
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就背负了巨大的债务。
01:45
Students学生们 like Kate凯特 have to take on a loan贷款
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像凯特那样的孩子只能贷款
01:48
because the cost成本 of higher更高 education教育
has become成为 unaffordable负担不起
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因为高等教育的费用
对于大多数家庭来说都难以承受。
01:51
for many许多 if not most American美国 families家庭.
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01:56
But so what?
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但那又怎样呢?
01:58
Getting入门 into debt债务 to buy购买
an expensive昂贵 education教育
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如果将来可以赚更多的钱来还债,
02:00
is not all bad if you could pay工资 it off
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现在借钱来读书
02:03
with the increased增加 income收入
that you earned from it.
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也是不错的。
02:07
But that's where the rubber橡胶
meets符合 the road.
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但是事实上,
02:11
Even a college学院 grad毕业
earned 10 percent百分 more in 2001
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2001年的毕业生
都比2013年毕业的她收入多出10%
02:17
than she did in 2013.
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02:19
So ...
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所以,
02:21
tuition学费 costs成本 up,
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学费越来越贵,
02:23
public上市 funding资金 down,
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公共资金支持越来越少,
02:25
family家庭 incomes收入 diminished减少,
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家庭存款越来越少,
02:27
personal个人 incomes收入 weak.
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个人收入越来越低。
02:30
Is it any wonder奇迹 that more
than a quarter25美分硬币 of those who must必须
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所以这也难怪为什么有四分之一的学生
02:34
cannot不能 make their student学生 loan贷款 payments支付?
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肯定没有办法还清他们的助学贷款了吧。
02:38
The worst最差 of times
can be the best最好 of times,
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最坏的时代也可能是最好的时代,
02:41
because certain某些 truths真理 flash up
in ways方法 that you can't ignore忽视.
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因为你无法忽视很多血淋淋的真相。
02:46
I want to speak说话 of three of them today今天.
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我今天想说三点。
02:49
1.2 trillion dollars美元 of debts债务 for diplomas文凭
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1.2 万亿的助学贷款债务
02:53
make it abundantly丰富地 obvious明显
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非常明显地证明了
02:55
that higher更高 education教育
is a consumer消费者 product产品 you can buy购买.
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高等学位已经变成了
可以购买的消费品。
03:00
All of us talk about education教育
just as the economists经济学家 do now,
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与经济学家一样,我们把教育
03:05
as an investment投资 that you make
to improve提高 the human人的 stock股票
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看成是一种通过培训
03:09
by training训练 them for work.
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来提升人类的投资。
03:11
As an investment投资 you make
to sort分类 and classify分类 people
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是一种将人排序分类从而
03:16
so that employers雇主
can hire聘请 them more easily容易.
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帮助雇主挑选人才的投资。
03:20
The U.S. News新闻 & World世界 Report报告
ranks行列 colleges高校
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美国新闻与世界报道对大学进行排名,
03:23
just as the consumer消费者 report报告
rates利率 washing洗涤 machines.
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就像顾客为洗衣机排名一样。
03:27
The language语言 is peppered接二连三 with barbarisms野蛮.
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往往措辞犀利
03:30
Teachers教师 are called "service服务 providers供应商,"
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教师们被称为“提供服务者”,
03:34
students学生们 are called "consumers消费者."
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学生们则是“消费者”。
03:37
Sociology社会学 and Shakespeare莎士比亚
and soccer足球 and science科学,
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社会学、莎士比亚、足球和科学
03:41
all of these are "content内容."
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所有这些都是“(商品的)内容”。
03:45
Student学生 debt债务 is profitable有利可图.
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学生贷款是有利可图的,
03:46
Only not on you.
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但不是通过学生来实现利润
03:49
Your debt债务 fattens养肥 the profit利润
of the student学生 loan贷款 industry行业.
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你的债务则增加了学生贷款市场的利润。
03:54
The two 800-pound-磅 gorillas大猩猩 of which哪一个 --
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两大学生贷款供应商
03:56
Sallie萨莉 Mae and NavientNavient --
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Sallie Mae and Navient
03:58
posted发布 last year a combined结合 profit利润
of 1.2 billion十亿 dollars美元.
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去年一共赚取12亿美元。
04:04
And just like home mortgages抵押贷款,
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就像房贷一样,
04:07
student学生 loans贷款 can be bundled捆绑
and packaged包装 and sliced切片 and diced切块,
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学生贷款也可以捆绑或分割
04:10
and sold出售 on Wall Street.
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并在华尔街出售。
04:12
And colleges高校 and universities高校
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那些投资于证券化贷款的
04:13
that invest投资 in these securitized证券 loans贷款
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大学和学院
04:18
profit利润 twice两次.
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便可从中获利两次,
04:19
Once一旦 from your tuition学费,
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首先是从你缴纳的学费
04:21
and then again from the interest利益 on debt债务.
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然后再从债务利息中获利。
04:25
With all that money to be made制作,
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有如此可观的利润,
04:27
are we surprised诧异 that some
in the higher更高 education教育 business商业
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那么一些高等教育企业
04:33
have begun开始 to engage从事 in false advertising广告,
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开始打虚假广告,
04:35
in bait and switch开关 ...
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通过引诱或偷换概念
04:38
in exploiting利用 the very ignorance无知
that they pretend假装 to educate教育?
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来剥削那些毫不知情的,
这些企业假装去“培养”的学生,
就毫不稀奇了
04:44
Third第三:
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第三,
04:45
diplomas文凭 are a brand.
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学位是一种品牌。
04:47
Many许多 years年份 ago my teacher老师 wrote,
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许多年前我的老师写到
04:50
"When students学生们 are treated治疗 as consumers消费者,
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“当学生被当成消费者,
04:52
they're made制作 prisoners囚犯
of addiction and envy羡慕."
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上瘾和嫉妒就会应运而生。
04:59
Just as consumers消费者 can be sold出售 and resold转售
upgraded升级 versions版本 of an iPhone苹果手机,
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商家可以不断将最新款的iPhone卖给消费者,
05:04
so also people can be sold出售
more and more education教育.
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学校也可以向人们兜售教育。
05:08
College学院 is the new high school学校,
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大学是新的高中。
05:10
we already已经 say that.
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我们早已深知这点。
05:13
But why stop there?
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但是我们就此停止吗?
05:14
People can be upsoldupsold
on certifications认证 and recertificationsrecertifications,
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人们想考取证书、认证新的证书
05:18
master's硕士 degrees, doctoral博士生 degrees.
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取得硕士、甚至博士学位。
05:23
Higher更高 education教育 is also marketed销售
as a status状态 object目的.
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高等教育是一种地位象征。
05:28
Buy购买 a degree,
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购买一个学位,
05:29
much like you do a Lexus雷克萨斯
of a Louis路易 Vuitton威登 bag,
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与买一辆雷克萨斯轿车或一个路易威登包一样,
05:33
to distinguish区分 yourself你自己 from others其他.
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都能彰显你的与众不同。
05:34
So you can be the object目的
of envy羡慕 of others其他.
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这样你就可以成为别人羡慕妒忌的对象。
05:38
Diplomas文凭 are a brand.
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文凭是一种品牌。
05:41
But these truths真理 are often经常 times
hidden by a very noisy嘈杂 sales销售 pitch沥青.
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然而这些真相通常都被嘈杂的商业宣传所掩盖。
05:48
There is not a day that goes by
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每一天都有一些讲政策的人
05:50
without some policy政策 guy
on television电视 telling告诉 us,
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在电视上说:
05:55
"A college学院 degree is absolutely绝对 essential必要
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”拥有大学学位是
过上中产阶级的生活的必需品“
05:57
to get on that up escalator自动楼梯
to a middle-class中产阶级 life."
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06:00
And the usual通常 evidence证据 offered提供
is the college学院 premium额外费用:
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通常此言论的证据是大学溢价:
06:04
a college学院 grad毕业 who makes品牌 on average平均
56 percent百分 more than a high school学校 grad毕业.
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大学毕业生的收入平均
比高中毕业生的收入高出56%
06:10
Let's look at that number more carefully小心,
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让我们更仔细地看一下统计数据。
06:12
because on the face面对 of it,
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因为这和我们平时听到的版本不太一样
06:13
it seems似乎 to belie叶公好龙 the stories故事 we all hear
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我们通常听到的是大学毕业生
在咖啡店打工或是做收银员
06:17
about college学院 grads毕业生
working加工 as baristas咖啡师 and cashiers收银员.
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06:22
Of 100 people who enroll注册
in any form形成 of post-secondary education教育,
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每一百名受过中学后教育的人中,
06:27
45 do not complete完成 it in a timely及时 fashion时尚,
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有45名学生未能及时毕业,
06:30
for a number of reasons原因,
including包含 financial金融.
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原因各一,也包括经济因素
06:34
Of the 55 that do graduate毕业,
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而在55位顺利毕业的人当中,
06:36
two will remain unemployed失业的,
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2位将找不到工作、
06:38
and another另一个 18 are underemployed半失业.
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18位的才华得不到充分施展。
06:42
So, college学院 grads毕业生 earn more
than high school学校 grads毕业生,
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大学毕业生的确比高中毕业生挣得更多,
06:45
but does it pay工资 for the exorbitant高昂 tuition学费
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但这真的能支付高昂的学费、
06:48
and the lost丢失 wages工资 while at college学院?
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抵消大学时期本可用来工作的收入吗?
06:51
Now even economists经济学家 admit承认
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现在经济学家甚至都承认
06:54
going to college学院 pays支付 off
for only those who complete完成 it.
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只有对能完成学业的来说,
大学才是值得的。
07:00
But that's only because high school学校 wages工资
have been cut to the bone,
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但这仅仅是因为几十年来,
高中毕业生的工资少的可怜。
07:04
for decades几十年 now.
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07:07
For decades几十年,
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几十年来,
07:09
workers工人 with a high school学校 degree
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拥有高中学历的人们
07:11
have been denied否认 a fair公平 share分享
of what they have produced生成.
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无法按劳取酬。
07:16
And had they received收到 as they should have,
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如果他们得到了自己应有的报酬,
07:19
then going to college学院 would have been
a bad investment投资 for many许多.
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那么对许多人来说,
上大学不是个划算的事儿。
07:23
College学院 premium额外费用?
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我想,大学溢价其实是
07:25
I think it's a high school学校 discount折扣.
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高中折价。
07:28
Two out of three people who enroll注册
are not going to find an adequate充足 job工作.
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三分之二的大学生并不能找到适合的工作。
07:33
And the future未来, for them,
doesn't look particularly尤其 promising有希望 --
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前景也并不光明,
07:36
in fact事实, it's downright彻头彻尾 bleak苍凉.
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甚至是彻底的灰暗。
07:38
And it is they who are going to suffer遭受
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而正是这些大学生们,
07:42
the most punishing惩罚 forms形式 of student学生 debt债务.
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他们将承担助学贷款的重担。
07:46
And it is they,
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正是这些大学生们,
07:47
curiously好奇 and sadly可悲的是,
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好奇又有些可悲地,
07:48
who are marketed销售 most loudly高声
about this college学院 premium额外费用 thing.
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大肆宣扬大学溢价。
07:53
That's not just cynical愤世嫉俗的 marketing营销,
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这样的市场营销不仅是讽刺的,
07:56
that's cruel残忍.
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更是残酷的。
07:59
So what do we do?
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那么我们应该怎么做呢?
08:01
What if students学生们 and parents父母 treated治疗
higher更高 education教育 as a consumer消费者 product产品?
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如果学生和家长把高等教育看成消费品怎么样?
08:08
Everybody每个人 else其他 seems似乎 to.
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其他人都是这样看待的
08:10
Then, like any other consumer消费者 product产品,
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然后,就像其他的消费产品一样,
08:12
you would demand需求 to know
what you're paying付款 for.
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你会想要知道你到底购买了什么产品。
08:15
When you buy购买 medicines药品,
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当你购买药物的时候,
08:16
you get a list名单 of side effects效果.
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商家会标出一系列的副作用。
08:18
When you buy购买 a higher更高 educational教育性 product产品,
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当你购买高等教育这个产品时,
08:20
you should have a warning警告 label标签
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学校也应该设置提示标语,
08:22
that allows允许 consumers消费者 to choose选择,
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以供消费者选择,
08:24
make informed通知 choices选择.
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从而理性购物。
08:26
When you buy购买 a car汽车,
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当你买汽车时,
08:28
it tells告诉 you how many许多
miles英里 per gallon加仑 to expect期望.
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汽车经销商会告诉你每加仑油
可以行进的英里数。
08:31
Who knows知道 what to expect期望
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比如,就学位来说,
08:32
from a degree say, in Canadian加拿大 Studies学习.
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谁都不知道“加拿大研究”能带来什么呢。
08:36
There is such这样 a thing, by the way.
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这仅只是一个例子而已。
08:40
What if there was an app应用 for that?
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如果有一个专门的应用呢?
08:46
One that linked关联 up the cost成本 of a major重大的
to the expected预期 income收入.
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应用将专业的花费和估计的收入联系起来,
08:52
Let's call it Income-Based基于收入 Tuition学费 or IBTIBT.
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取名为收入基准学费或IBT。
08:54
One of you make this.
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在座的就做过类似app。
08:56
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
08:57
Discover发现 your reality现实.
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评估你的现实条件。
08:59
(Laughter笑声)
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(笑声)
09:01
There are three advantages优点,
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根据收入决定学费
09:03
three benefits好处 to Income-Based基于收入 Tuition学费.
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有三个好处。
09:07
Any user用户 can figure数字 out
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任何人都可以判断出
09:09
how much money he or she will make
from a given特定 college学院 and major重大的.
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大学学位或专业能够带来多少收入。
09:13
Such这样 informed通知 users用户
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这样,人们充分了解后,
09:14
are unlikely不会 to fall秋季 victim受害者
to the huckster's叫卖的 ploy策略,
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就不会陷于过度的
09:18
to the sales销售 pitch沥青.
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宣传和推销中,
09:19
But also to choose选择 wisely明智.
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做出更加明智的选择。
09:21
Why would anybody任何人 pay工资 more for college学院
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如果大学的学费比将来收入要高出15%
09:24
than let's say, 15 percent百分
of the additional额外 income收入 they earn?
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那何苦还要上大学呢?
09:29
There's a second第二 benefit效益
to Income-Based基于收入 Tuition学费.
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第二个好处是,
09:31
By tying搭售 the cost成本 to the income收入,
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将花费与收入相连
09:34
college学院 administrators管理员 would be forced被迫
to manage管理 costs成本 better,
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也能迫使大学管理者们更好地
想出更多新办法来控制费用。
09:39
to find innovative创新 ways方法 to do so.
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09:41
For instance,
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例如,
09:42
all of you students学生们 here pay工资 roughly大致
the same相同 tuition学费 for every一切 major重大的.
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不同专业的学生学费大概相同
09:47
That is manifestly明显 unfair不公平,
and should change更改.
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这很明显是不公平的,需要进行调整。
09:52
An engineering工程 student学生 uses使用 more resources资源
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学工程的比学哲学的
09:56
and facilities设备 and labs实验室 and faculty学院
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运用更多资源和设施、
09:58
than a philosophy哲学 student学生.
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需要更多实验室和教职工。
10:01
But the philosophy哲学 student学生,
as a consequence后果,
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结果就是哲学专业的学生
10:03
is subsidizing补贴 the engineering工程 student学生.
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在补贴着工程专业的学生。
10:06
Who then, by the way,
goes on and earns收入 more money.
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但是,谁又挣得更多呢?
10:09
Why should two people
buy购买 the same相同 product产品,
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为什么两个人付相同的费用、
10:12
pay工资 the same相同,
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买相同的产品,
10:13
but one person receive接收
half or a third第三 of the service服务.
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却有一个人只能获得一半或三分之一的服务呢?
10:18
In fact事实, college学院 grads毕业生, some majors专业,
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实际上,一些专业的毕业生
10:22
pay工资 25 percent百分 of their income收入
servicing服务 their student学生 debt债务,
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要拿出25%的工资付学生贷款,
10:26
while others其他 pay工资 five percent百分.
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而其他专业的学生只需拿出5%。
10:29
That kind if inequity不公平 would end结束
when majors专业 are priced定价 more correctly正确地.
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只有将不同专业更适当地定价
才能结束这种不平等现象。
10:35
Now of course课程, all this data数据 --
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当然,定价的数据,
10:37
and one of you is going to do this, right?
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在座的会有人做这个,对吧?
10:39
All this data数据 has to be well designed设计,
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定价需要合理设计,
10:41
maybe audited审计 by public上市 accounting会计 firms公司
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也许需要公共会计师事务所来审计
10:43
to avoid避免 statistical统计 lies.
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避免统计失误。
10:45
We know about statistics统计, right?
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我们都对统计略知一二。
10:48
But be that as it may可能,
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尽管如此
10:50
the third第三 and biggest最大 benefit效益
of Income-Based基于收入 Tuition学费,
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收入基准学费的第三个,也是最大的好处是,
10:54
is it would free自由 Americans美国人 from the fear恐惧
and the fact事实 of financial金融 ruin废墟
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即便人们买了有缺陷的产品
也不会产生消费恐惧或者巨大的经济负担
10:59
because they bought a defective缺陷 product产品.
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11:02
Perhaps也许, in time,
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也许,最后
11:05
young年轻 and old Americans美国人 may可能 rediscover重新发现,
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美国人会重新发掘,
11:07
as the gentleman绅士 said earlier,
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就如人们之前所说,
11:09
their curiosity好奇心, their love of learning学习 --
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自己的好奇心和对知识的渴望,
11:11
begin开始 to study研究 what they love,
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会开始学习自己热爱的,
11:13
love what they study研究,
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热爱自己学到的,
11:14
follow跟随 their passion ...
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追随自己的热情,
11:16
getting得到 stimulated刺激 by their intelligence情报,
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用他们的才智,
11:19
follow跟随 paths路径 of inquiry查询
that they really want to.
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去探索他们真正想了解的。
11:22
After all, it was Eric埃里克 and Kevin凯文,
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毕竟,两年前
正是Eric和Kevin,
11:27
two years年份 ago,
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这样的年轻人,
11:29
just exactly究竟 these kinds of young年轻 men男人,
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给我鼓励、与我并肩作战
11:32
who prompted提示 me and worked工作 with me,
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2022
11:35
and still do,
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直至今日,
11:36
in the study研究 of indebted感激的
students学生们 in America美国.
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研究美国负债学生的情况。
11:41
Thank you for your attention注意.
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感谢您的倾听。
11:42
(Applause掌声)
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(掌声)
Translated by Ke Ding
Reviewed by ting zhong

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Sajay Samuel - Educator
Professor Sajay Samuel's proposal to reduce the burden of student loans is part of his larger preoccupation with thinking beyond the conventional categories of economics and ecology.

Why you should listen

Sajay Samuel is an award winning professor of accounting at the Smeal College of Business at Penn State University. He has organized seminars and lectured widely in Europe and elsewhere on a range of topics, including science and technology, the political economy of professions and decision theory.

Samuel received his Masters in Accounting and Ph.D in Business Administration from Penn State University in 1990 and 1995 respectively. Since then he has taught management accounting and related subjects to undergraduates, graduates, MBAs and Executives over assignments that included stints at Bucknell University and the University of Connecticut. He returned to Penn State in 2003 and now teaches a capstone course to all undergraduate business majors titled, "Business and Industry Analysis."

Samuel was awarded the 2006 Lester J. Shonto Faculty Award for Excellence in Accounting Education. Dr. Samuel's research has been published in such scholarly journals as Accounting, Organizations and Society, Administration Science Quarterly and Symbolic Interaction. His most recent work on accounting, technology and on the history of ideas, has appeared in three articles in the Encyclopedia of Science, Technology and Ethics (2005). His current research aims at clarifying the political implications of accounting practice. His studies in this area concern the political significance of administrative agencies and professional associations in liberal democratic polities. He has presented the early fruits of this work in France, Italy, Germany and England.

More profile about the speaker
Sajay Samuel | Speaker | TED.com