Stewart Brand and Chris Anderson: Mammoths resurrected, geoengineering and other thoughts from a futurist
Stewart Brand y Chris Anderson: Mamuts resucitados, geoingeniería y otras ideas de un futurista
Since the counterculture '60s, Stewart Brand has been creating our internet-worked world. Now, with biotech accelerating four times faster than digital technology, Stewart Brand has a bold new plan ... Full bioChris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
que en el 68, fundó esta revista.
you founded this magazine.
es difícil de encontrar.
It's the original one.
un impacto tan grande?
that I was part of at the time,
yo era parte de la contracultura,
y la Nueva Izquierda.
of hippies and New Left.
la gente que era un poco menor que yo.
en la corriente interesante...
at where the interesting flow is
cuando fui oficial del ejército.
as an army officer,
to find originalities:
para encontrar originalidades:
else is looking,
mira en la dirección opuesta.
es que los hippies eran muy románticos
the hippies were very romantic
exceptuando el fantástico LSD de Sandoz.
estaba en contra de la tecnología
un vehículo del poder:
it was a power device.
del orden establecido,
fold, or mutilate.
era como contra-contracultural
was kind of a counter-counterculture thing
de Buckminster Fuller:
Buckminster Fuller's idea
define the world in interesting ways.
desaparecieran en una semana
disappeared one week,
desparecieran en una semana
and engineers disappeared one week,
de poder para el pueblo.
about power to the people.
and Steve Wozniak
poder para las personas,
de cambiar la naturaleza humana,
don't try to change human nature,
por largo tiempo y ni siquiera se tuerce,
and it does not even bend,
se cambian fácilmente.
if you want to make the world better
si quieres mejorar al mundo,
de otra manera, como quería la Izquierda,
differently like the New Left was,
para que vayan en la dirección correcta.
that go in the right direction.
this is one of the first images,
veía a la Tierra desde el espacio.
Earth from outer space.
that in the spring of '66,
en una azotea de San Francisco,
on a rooftop in San Francisco,
something that Fuller talked about,
que decía Fuller:
that the Earth is flat
y tiene recursos casi infinitos,
in terms of its resources,
that it's a sphere
una esfera de tamaño limitado
y a pensar en ella como un sistema finito.
era 'Nave espacial Tierra'.
on my hundred micrograms
en la azotea de San Francisco,
del centro, que estaban frente a mí,
which were right in front of me
se abrían en abanico, así,
they were sort of fanned out like this.
they are on a curved surface.
hubiera visto eso más claramente;
I would see that even more clearly,
el círculo terrestre desde el espacio.
the circle of Earth from space.
durante 10 años, eso era por 1966,
in space for 10 years --
habían mirado hacia atrás,
or looking at just parts of the Earth.
o hacia partes de la Tierra.
una fotografía de la Tierra entera?
a photograph of the whole Earth yet?
secretarios, a gente del Politburó,
and senators, secretaries got it,
in the Politburo got it,
cuando salió 'Whole Earth Catalog',
Catalog came out,
y, en efecto, transformaron todo.
ingenioso para desencadenar una situación.
lazy and ingenious
that you see --
de la semana pasada
Whole Earth banners and so on --
way to make the system go
tome un rumbo interesante,
the whole system around in a big way,
al sistema con grandes cambios
horsing-around problems,
it will adjust to the tweak.
among many other things,
un líder del ambientalismo,
in the environmental movement,
para los ambientalistas son casi herejías.
taking on a lot of,
almost believe are heresies.
a couple of those.
de la 'estepa del mamut'.
y las regiones subártica y ártica.
and Arctic region, used to look like.
used to look like that.
y el Serengueti, muchos animales grandes,
and the Serengeti now,
Eurasia, en todo el mundo.
throughout the world.
is to not only bring back those animals
y las praderas que producían,
de estabilización climática a largo plazo,
stabilization system over the long run,
en el fondo, y son parte de esta historia.
there in the background
se puede cumplir en unos 200 años.
a 200-year goal.
de reducir el ritmo de la extinción.
the extinction rate
in the background.
tomará un tiempo, pero vale la pena.
of bio-abundance will take longer,
qué debemos pensar de las extinciones.
should think of extinctions.
concerns right now
preocupaciones actuales es que
at a faster rate than ever in history.
que en los otros periodos de la historia.
en medio de la sexta extinción
of the Sixth Extinction
de la sexta extinción.
of the Sixth Extinction.
de la ecología de la resurrección
the de-extinction business,
with Revive & Restore,
con Revive & Restore
sucediendo con la extinción.
going on with extinction.
set of data out there
que es hipersimplificado
indicated by the yellow triangles,
y nosotros somos la siguiente.
hace 66 millones de años
66 million years ago
somos el siguiente meteoro.
para un ensayo que escribí:
for a paper I wrote,
75 percent of all the species
de las especies del mundo se extingue.
y medio de especies,
of five-and-a-half-million species,
un millón y medio.
one and a half million.
identified every year.
going on out there.
unas 500 especies.
usado en maneras extrañas.
kind of used in strange ways.
un artículo de Carl Zimmer
in the New York Times,
en los océanos, según estudios'.
Broad Studies Show."
y menciona que desde 1500
and it mentions that since 1500,
have gone extinct in the oceans,
en los últimos 50 años.
none in the last 50 years.
into the story, and it's saying,
sobrepescan tanto a los peces silvestres
are so overfishing the wild fishes,
está disminuyendo en un 38 %.
the fish populations in the oceans
de esas especies se extinguirá.
are probably going to go extinct.
de pánico al inicio de la historia.
que, básicamente, dice:
"Oh my God, start panicking,
todas las especies de los océanos".
all the species in the oceans."
el asunto con más detenimiento.
looking into in a little more detail,
que se consideran amenazadas
that are considered threatened
for the Conservation of Nature, the IUCN.
para la Conservación de la Naturaleza.
surveying the loss of wildlife,
de vida silvestre que decía:
se extinguieran en el próximo siglo
durante siglos y milenios,
for more centuries and millennia,
of a sixth extinction.
es desproporcionada,
exageran, ese es el problema.
que tienen una responsabilidad moral
a moral responsibility to,
lo que están observando.
the thing that they are looking at,
tal vez nadie los escucharía.
maybe no one listens.
la moral por aquí, la moral por allá...
moral this or moral that --
"precautionary principle" --
to basically say no to things.
la extinción de peces o animales,
fish extinction, animal extinction,
y también se dan pérdidas.
and there is losses going on.
son causadas por la agricultura,
are caused by agriculture,
que mejore la agricultura,
and basically makes it more condensed,
y la haga más productiva,
en la ciudad y las granjas interiores;
vertical farms in town,
sobre el cultivo de marihuana en sótanos
about how to grow pot in basements,
vegetales en un contenedor;
vegetables inside containers --
que podemos hacer por la naturaleza.
we can do for nature.
a las ciudades es bueno,
of a destruction of the landscape is good.
menos el paisaje es bueno.
de revivir especies y resilvestración...
bringing back species, rewilding ...
la historia de estos sujetos?
What's the story with these guys?
hayan alcanzado su clímax,
en el número tope de niños.
at peak children being alive.
habrá cada vez menos niños.
fewer and fewer children.
de la población humana,
of human population,
nueve mil millones y medio
maybe nine and a half billion,
but probably going down.
sino que empezará a disminuir.
está en su clímax.
that plays out in Europe
of abandoned farmland now,
tierras de cultivo abandonadas,
en Europa, no los necesitan,
corridors in Europe.
so many of these farms are connected
ecológicos reforestados
reforested wildlife corridors,
en este caso a España.
in this case, to Spain.
to the Netherlands.
los linces están regresando.
There's lynx coming back.
que no sabía que existía,
I had no idea such a thing existed.
y del resto de Europa.
to the rest of Europe.
son predadores, lo que es interesante.
which is kind of interesting.
la bienvenida, los habían extrañado.
They've been missed.
cuando reintroducen predadores
when you bring back the predators,
la diversidad del ecosistema.
ecosystem often.
animales grandes
and large animals --
con dientes y garras afilados,
with sharp teeth and claws --
un ecosistema realmente abundante.
for a really rich ecosystem.
más dramático de resilvestración
more dramatic rewilding project
a estos aterradores mamuts lanudos?
these terrifying woolly mammoths?
son los parientes más cercanos
are the closest relative
son muy cercanos genéticamente.
genetically very close.
in evolutionary history.
are closer to woolly mammoths
están más cerca del mamut lanudo
cerca de los africanos
to African elephants
con George Church en Harvard.
with George Church at Harvard,
for four major traits
de cuatro rasgos principales
genome of the woolly mammoth,
genoma del mamut lanudo,
"ancient DNA analysis."
ha trasladado esos genes
into living Asian elephant cell lines,
de elefantes asiáticos vivos,
correspondiente gracias a CRISPR.
their proper place thanks to CRISPR.
como se hacía en ingeniería genética.
like you did with genetic engineering.
basically, one allele,
y reemplazándolo por otro alelo.
of another allele.
germinal de elefantes asiáticos
Asian elephant germline cells
las características que deseamos,
of the traits that you're going for
de introducirlas
a surrogate mother,
que es una elefanta asiática.
los biólogos conservacionistas, del mamut,
by conservation biologists,
elefante asiático de trompa enroscada
curly-trunked, Asian elephant
cómodo en el subártico.
in the sub-Arctic.
"¿Cómo los vas a llevar allá?
to get them there?
no les gusta la nieve".
they don't like snow, right?"
hay unos en el zoológico de Ontario
bigger than people.
más grandes que un humano.
you can start a little thing,
pueden empezar algo pequeño,
es un asunto complicado,
is tricky business, anyway.
que serán madres sustitutas?"
the surrogate Asian elephant mothers?"
says, "That's all right.
construiremos un útero artificial".
and grow them that way."
tal vez el próximo siglo".
next century, maybe,"
que ya hay un útero artificial
this week in Nature
in which they've grown a lamb
hasta las cuatro semanas.
de su periodo de gestación.
its gestation period.
querer un mundo...
want a world where --
donde miles de estas creaturas
thousands of these things
seriamente con el mamut lanudo:
working on the woolly mammoth seriously:
we're kind of in the middle;
se encargan de genética en el laboratorio
that are doing the genetics in the lab;
científico mayor que se llama Zimov
old scientist named Zimov
que también cree en esto.
who has bought into the system,
han estado, durante 25 años,
Zimov have been, for 25 years,
"Pleistocene Park,"
'Parque Pleistoceno'
of Siberia that is pure tundra.
de Siberia que es pura tundra.
of the animals on the landscape there
1/100 de los animales que solía haber,
que tenía muchísimos animales.
we saw lots of animals.
y también está el bosque boreal.
and then there's the boreal forest.
solo hay pocos animales.
There's just a few animals there.
muchos animales que pastan:
a lot of grazing animals:
caballos de Yakutia, bisontes,
they're bringing in some bison,
en la que solían estar.
that they used to be.
son los que producen las praderas.
están allí pastando,
la tundra, el musgo, en praderas.
the moss, back into grassland.
and releasing a lot of carbon dioxide
está emanando mucho dióxido de carbono
65 kilómetros cuadrados
25 square miles,
stabilization thing.
enormemente la luz solar,
very absorbent to sunlight,
cuando hay nieve en el suelo.
when snow is on the ground.
solía envolver todo el Polo Norte,
around the North Pole --
que rodea al Polo Norte.
around the North Pole --
y la estepa era magnífica,
más productivos del mundo,
biomes in the world,
Sergey Zimov and Nikita
que compraron baratísimo,
they got for nothing,
"¡Y no produce estiércol!",
"... and they make no dung!"
producen, incluyendo los mamuts.
animals do, including mammoths.
what conservation biologists call
llaman 'especie paraguas'.
como los pandas en China.
pandas in China or wherever --
una buena vida a ese animal
of making life good for that animal
es bueno para muchas creaturas y plantas.
of creatures and plants,
en que se maneja solo
of being self-managing,
pueden retroceder y decir:
can back off and say,
a las 'invasoras destructivas'
the destructive invasives,
sueña con resilvestrar más adelante,
that you're dreaming of de-extincting
like to move on to
how mammoths might help
pueden ayudar a enverdecer Siberia,
tropical rainforest,
mucho en la idea de reverdecer el planeta
you've thought about a lot.
dice que la deforestación
is one of the most awful curses
de los tiempos modernos
al cambio climático.
to climate change.
this graph here, or this map.
narrativa que proviene de los titulares
that you get from headlines
llama la 'violación de la narrativa'.
calls "narrative violation."
es un campeón para difundirla,
is master of putting it out there --
civilization-threatening
que amenaza a la civilización:
de gases de efecto invernadero,
of greenhouse gases, especially CO2,
o tendremos serios problemas.
pero no es toda la historia.
but it's not the whole story,
que las historias fragmentarias.
than these fragmentary stories.
y luz solar produce plantas.
plus water via sunshine.
industriales añaden CO2
industrialized greenhouses,
turn that into plant matter.
en materia vegetal.
con satélites y otras cosas.
with satellites and other things,
los últimos 33 años
over the last 33 years or so,
más de acción a nivel de las hojas,
leaf action going on.
llaman 'producción primaria'.
what ecologists call "primary production."
gracias al cambio climático,
fábricas a base de carbón.
de cultivos aumenta con esto.
goes up with this.
that is sucking it down
que lo convierten en materia vegetal.
y vuelve a subir,
and goes right back up,
y al suelo y permanece allí.
estos factores contrarrestantes.
of what you need to bear in mind,
and engineering climate
el clima es un proceso muy complejo.
tweaking around with the system
mejorando... fue demasiado, retrocedamos.
see it's still getting better,
back off half a turn.
"No todo el verde es igual".
"Not all green is created equal."
del bosque tropical y toda esa diversidad
the magnificence of the rainforest
de estanque o césped o algo así.
or grass or something like that.
todo tipo de planta está aumentando.
every form of plant is increasing.
qué demonios está pasando en los océanos.
left out of this study
in the oceans.
en su mayoría, ¿en qué se halla?
the most important thing.
that create the atmosphere
que dichosamente respiramos
insistiendo en esto:
James Lovelock has been insisting;
especialmente de la vida marina,
especially of ocean life,
en el proceso de descubrir,
of too much CO2 in the atmosphere,
de demasiado CO2 en la atmósfera,
está haciendo con eso.
the ocean doing with that?
con el calor extra.
los niveles del mar,
the sea level rise,
with more global warming.
con el calentamiento.
están sufriendo estragos,
to some of the coral reefs,
blanqueamiento por el sobrecalentamiento.
a lot of bleaching from overheating.
in our previous session on the main stage,
previa en el escenario principal,
is worth experimenting with enough
experimentar con la geoingeniería
in the warming aspect of all of this,
en cuanto al calentamiento,
pequeños estudios prácticos
but usable research,
hacer más que ajustar.
do more than tweak.
los últimos minutos
we're going to talk about
fue publicado recientemente
was just published by Yuval Harari.
de los humanos es convertirse en dioses.
of humans is to become as gods.
y, probablemente, ya terminó el libro,
And you've probably finished the book.
completely remake ourselves
usando información, usando bioingeniería
nuevas con algo así como superpoderes,
y nuevo capítulo de la historia.
brand-new chapter of history.
likes provoking people.
en TED que me emocionan y ponen nervioso.
I'm excited and nervous.
de inclinarse hacia:
is trying hard to lean towards
mientras mi lado responsable dice:
part of me is saying,
en cuanto a cómo lo enfocamos".
be a little bit careful
mantenerse nerviosos y emocionados.
isn't it, for TED?
para ser un poco esquizofrénico.
a little bit schizophrenic.
una declaración sorprendente
statement that you made
en el 'Whole Earth Catalog' original,
Whole Earth Catalog,
con esta poderosa frase:
que aprendamos a hacerlo bien".
and might as well get good at it."
una nueva versión de la declaración.
you've upgraded that statement.
is that documentation
que la memoria, de largo.
from somebody --
it hasn't forgiven me yet!
alguien la citó, y alguien más dijo:
when somebody quoted it,
en el 'Whole Earth Catalog' de 1968.
what you originally wrote
y más vale que nos acostumbremos'".
and might as well get used to it.'"
the stories we tell ourselves
que nos contamos a nosotros mismos
ayuda a acabar con eso.
mejor que aprendamos a hacerlo bien",
and might as well get good at it,"
called "Whole Earth Discipline:
An Ecopragmatist Manifesto',
dije que somos como dioses
basically saying that we are as gods
y tenemos que hacerlo bien".
and have to get good at it.
the psychological reaction
la reacción psicológica de tanta gente
as you talk about geoengineering
ser los humanos es dioses,
is that humans should be gods --
pero la mayoría por humildad
complejos y no debiéramos entrometernos.
sobre la arrogancia.
narrative about hubris.
realmente seguro de sí mismo
really sure of yourself,
muy importante que no debe olvidarse.
cautionary tale to always have at hand.
que he seguido en mi vida es:
I've kept for myself is:
estoy totalmente equivocado.
I am dead wrong about.
lo que es alegría pura,
with scientists these days,
incluso cuando todo luce maravillosamente
looks pretty good,
of not only suspicions
también se pregunta qué más está pasando.
away from fake news.
de las noticias falsas.
está tratando de comprender.
de esto al medio ambiente:
of this just for the environment:
esta filosofía, nos guste o no,
is that, whether we like it or not,
de lo que pasa en los planetas
of what happens on planets,
doing it intentionally.
a hacerlo deliberadamente.
a dominar el arte de ser dioses?
getting good at being a god?
o sistemas con los que podamos jugar?
or systems we can nudge and play with?
de mi adhesión total a Buckminster Fuller
to Buckminster Fuller
and anthropologist and biologist
epistemólogo, antropólogo,
los sistemas se ven a sí mismos.
basically look at themselves.
debiéramos querer ver las cosas siempre.
you want to always be looking at things.
David Keith en cuanto a la geoingeniería
approach to geoengineering
was talking about earlier --
estaba hablando hace un momento,
really incrementally,
y ves cómo responde,
see how it responds,
que dice, con razón:
that people say, quite rightly,
how the climate system works.
el sistema del clima.
you don't understand."
que no entiendes".
aplica al cuerpo humano,
applies to the human body,
and we're kind of glad that it has."
y nos alegra que así sea".
that is so large and complex
que no se puede entender totalmente
se prueba un poquito aquí,
an anti-hubristic approach.
abiertos otros caminos.
and dialogue and all these other things
y diálogo y todas esas otras cosas,
antes de Sebastian.
about earlier with Sebastian [Thrun].
es buscar la licencia social,
is looking for social license,
que incluye lo suficiente a la sociedad
that I think is a good one,
problematic, deep issues
problemáticos y profundos
buena idea de ellos,
prestando detenida atención
paying close attention
as it's going forward,
as it's going forward --
which is fantastic --
lo cual es fantástico.
funcionando bastante bien hasta ahora.
that has worked pretty well so far.
and I are optimistic is we read
'Los ángeles que llevamos dentro'.
"The Better Angels of Our Nature,"
que las cosas son capaces de mejorar,
of: things are capable of getting better,
a la mejoría y usarlas más.
that happen and apply those further.
con ese comentario optimista.
on that optimistic note,
are willing to challenge yourself
a cuestionarse a sí mismo y a otros.
estar demasiado seguro
allowing yourself to be too certain
and inspiring, actually,
e inspirador escucharlo hoy.
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Stewart Brand - Environmentalist, futuristSince the counterculture '60s, Stewart Brand has been creating our internet-worked world. Now, with biotech accelerating four times faster than digital technology, Stewart Brand has a bold new plan ...
Why you should listen
With biotech accelerating four times faster than digital technology, the revival of extinct species is becoming possible. Stewart Brand plans to not only bring species back but restore them to the wild.
Brand is already a legend in the tech industry for things he’s created: the Whole Earth Catalog, The WELL, the Global Business Network, the Long Now Foundation, and the notion that “information wants to be free.” Now Brand, a lifelong environmentalist, wants to re-create -- or “de-extinct” -- a few animals that’ve disappeared from the planet.
Granted, resurrecting the woolly mammoth using ancient DNA may sound like mad science. But Brand’s Revive and Restore project has an entirely rational goal: to learn what causes extinctions so we can protect currently endangered species, preserve genetic and biological diversity, repair depleted ecosystems, and essentially “undo harm that humans have caused in the past.”
Stewart Brand | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.
Why you should listen
Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.
Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.
Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.
Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.
This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.
He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.
In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.
Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com