Stewart Brand and Chris Anderson: Mammoths resurrected, geoengineering and other thoughts from a futurist
Stewart Brand és Chris Anderson: Mamutok föltámasztása, geomérnökség és egyéb futurista gondolatok
Since the counterculture '60s, Stewart Brand has been creating our internet-worked world. Now, with biotech accelerating four times faster than digital technology, Stewart Brand has a bold new plan ... Full bioChris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
you founded this magazine.
It's the original one.
that I was part of at the time,
a fő esemény, részt vettem benne.
of hippies and New Left.
és az új baloldalból állt.
at where the interesting flow is
hol történik valami érdekes,
as an army officer,
a seregben tanultam,
to find originalities:
ez részben olcsó heurisztika:
else is looking,
the hippies were very romantic
hogy a hippik romantikusok voltak,
it was a power device.
fold, or mutilate.
was kind of a counter-counterculture thing
ellenkultúra-ellenes dolog volt,
Buckminster Fuller's idea
define the world in interesting ways.
a világot meghatározzák.
disappeared one week,
and engineers disappeared one week,
tűnne el,
puszta kellemetlenségnél.
about power to the people.
hogy a népé legyen a hatalom.
and Steve Wozniak
hozunk létre.
don't try to change human nature,
az emberi természetet megváltoztatni,
and it does not even bend,
semmi sem jött ki belőle.
if you want to make the world better
mint amivel az új baloldal próbálkozott,
differently like the New Left was,
eszközöket adjunk nekik.
that go in the right direction.
a Föld katalógusa.
this is one of the first images,
korai ábrázolás,
Earth from outer space.
amelyen a Föld az űrből látható.
that in the spring of '66,
San Francisco egyik háztetején,
on a rooftop in San Francisco,
something that Fuller talked about,
that the Earth is flat
hogy a Föld lapos,
in terms of its resources,
that it's a sphere
hogy gömb alakú,
on my hundred micrograms
which were right in front of me
előttem látható házai
they were sort of fanned out like this.
hanem mintha szétterülnének.
they are on a curved surface.
I would see that even more clearly,
még tisztábban látnám őket,
the circle of Earth from space.
in space for 10 years --
10 éve vagyunk az űrben.
or looking at just parts of the Earth.
vagy a Föld egy-egy darabkájára.
a photograph of the whole Earth yet?
még fotót az egész Földről?
and senators, secretaries got it,
szenátorokig, titkárokig,
in the Politburo got it,
Catalog megjelent,
Catalog came out,
lazy and ingenious
that you see --
fölvonulók a múlt héten vittek,
Whole Earth banners and so on --
way to make the system go
the whole system around in a big way,
horsing-around problems,
it will adjust to the tweak.
among many other things,
hangadójának is tartanak,
in the environmental movement,
taking on a lot of,
szinte eretnekségnek tart.
almost believe are heresies.
a couple of those.
and Arctic region, used to look like.
tájékán valaha így nézett ki.
used to look like that.
and the Serengeti now,
throughout the world.
egész Eurázsiában, az egész világon.
is to not only bring back those animals
nemcsak ezeknek az állatoknak
rétek visszahozása,
stabilization system over the long run,
klímastabilizáló hatású,
there in the background
a 200-year goal.
the extinction rate
levinni a kihalási ütemet,
in the background.
of bio-abundance will take longer,
visszaállításához több idő kell,
should think of extinctions.
concerns right now
at a faster rate than ever in history.
mint a múltban bármikor.
of the Sixth Extinction
of the Sixth Extinction.
the de-extinction business,
a Revive & Restore segítségével,
with Revive & Restore,
going on with extinction.
mi a helyzet a kihalással.
set of data out there
indicated by the yellow triangles,
sárga háromszöggel jelölve;
66 million years ago
lesz a következő meteor.
for a paper I wrote,
75 percent of all the species
akkor tömeges,
of five-and-a-half-million species,
one and a half million.
identified every year.
going on out there.
kind of used in strange ways.
tömeges kihalásnak hívni.
in the New York Times,
a The New York Times címoldalán:
Broad Studies Show."
a széleskörű kutatások szerint.
and it mentions that since 1500,
have gone extinct in the oceans,
none in the last 50 years.
into the story, and it's saying,
are so overfishing the wild fishes,
the fish populations in the oceans
are probably going to go extinct.
"Oh my God, start panicking,
all the species in the oceans."
looking into in a little more detail,
a részletekben, kiderült,
that are considered threatened
kb. 23 000 fajt tart nyilván,
veszélyeztetettek.
for the Conservation of Nature, the IUCN.
Világszövetség, az IUCN adatai.
surveying the loss of wildlife,
for more centuries and millennia,
több évszázadig-évezredig tartana,
of a sixth extinction.
tán a hatodik kihaláshoz".
a moral responsibility to,
the thing that they are looking at,
talán senki sem figyelne rájuk.
maybe no one listens.
moral this or moral that --
"precautionary principle" --
vagy elővigyázatossági elvről,
to basically say no to things.
a nem helyett használják.
fish extinction, animal extinction,
és más állatok kihalásáról van szó,
and there is losses going on.
és a veszteség folytatódik.
are caused by agriculture,
and basically makes it more condensed,
vertical farms in town,
about how to grow pot in basements,
pincében való termesztéséről,
vegetables inside containers --
zöldségtermesztéshez hasznosítják;
we can do for nature.
a fő dolog, amit a természetért tehetünk.
of a destruction of the landscape is good.
tájrombolóvá tenni jó dolog.
bringing back species, rewilding ...
visszahozásáról, újratelepítéséről...
What's the story with these guys?
mi ezzel a helyzet?
maximális kihasználását,
at peak children being alive.
számában a csúcsot.
fewer and fewer children.
of human population,
időszakában élünk:
maybe nine and a half billion,
but probably going down.
hanem egyenesen zuhanni fog.
that plays out in Europe
of abandoned farmland now,
corridors in Europe.
annyira egymás hegyén-hátán vannak,
so many of these farms are connected
reforested wildlife corridors,
zöldfolyosókat hoztak létre,
in this case, to Spain.
pl. Spanyolországba.
to the Netherlands.
There's lynx coming back.
visszatérnek a hiúzok.
I had no idea such a thing existed.
sejtelmem sem volt a létezéséről.
to the rest of Europe.
Európa többi részébe.
which is kind of interesting.
They've been missed.
hiányolták őket.
when you bring back the predators,
hogy amikor a ragadozókat hozod vissza,
ecosystem often.
and large animals --
with sharp teeth and claws --
és karmú nagyvadak –
for a really rich ecosystem.
more dramatic rewilding project
figyelemre méltó újratelepítéséhez,
these terrifying woolly mammoths?
e félelmetes gyapjas mamutokat?
are the closest relative
genetically very close.
genetikailag közel állnak hozzájuk.
in evolutionary history.
vált szét a két faj.
are closer to woolly mammoths
állnak a gyapjas mamutokhoz,
to African elephants
with George Church at Harvard,
George Churchcsel,
for four major traits
génjét átültette
genome of the woolly mammoth,
alaposan tanulmányozott genomjából
"ancient DNA analysis."
into living Asian elephant cell lines,
élő ázsiai elefánt sejtvonalaiba,
their proper place thanks to CRISPR.
a CRISPR-nek köszönhetően.
like you did with genetic engineering.
mint a génsebészet esetén.
basically, one allele,
of another allele.
Asian elephant germline cells
csírasejtvonalához jutunk,
of the traits that you're going for
a surrogate mother,
by conservation biologists,
curly-trunked, Asian elephant
kanyargós ormányú ázsiai elefánt,
in the sub-Arctic.
az északi sarkkörön innen.
to get them there?
they don't like snow, right?"
bigger than people.
you can start a little thing,
először kis gombócot formálnak,
is tricky business, anyway.
elég trükkös dolog.
the surrogate Asian elephant mothers?"
pótanyák egy részét?"
says, "That's all right.
csinálunk, úgy hordjuk ki őket."
and grow them that way."
"Persze, majd tán jövő században",
next century, maybe,"
this week in Nature
in which they've grown a lamb
its gestation period.
want a world where --
thousands of these things
amelyben ezernyi ilyen lény dübörög
working on the woolly mammoth seriously:
a gyapjas mamutok témájában:
we're kind of in the middle;
that are doing the genetics in the lab;
amely a laborban genetikával foglalkozik;
bizonyos Zimov,
old scientist named Zimov
who has bought into the system,
benne van a projektben.
Zimov have been, for 25 years,
"Pleistocene Park,"
of Siberia that is pure tundra.
zord részén terül el.
of the animals on the landscape there
ott élt állatoknak csupán
we saw lots of animals.
and then there's the boreal forest.
moha és tajga borítja.
There's just a few animals there.
a lot of grazing animals:
egy csomó legelésző állatot:
they're bringing in some bison,
egypár bölényt,
mint ahogy hajdanán éltek.
that they used to be.
a tundrát és a mohát.
the moss, back into grassland.
and releasing a lot of carbon dioxide
és sok szén-dioxidot
25 square miles,
stabilization thing.
very absorbent to sunlight,
elnyeli a napsugárzást,
when snow is on the ground.
around the North Pole --
körüli területet borította –
around the North Pole --
az Északi Sark körül –
biomes in the world,
legtermékenyebb biomjainak,
Sergey Zimov and Nikita
fillérekért vett tankjával
they got for nothing,
"...nem termelnek trágyát!",
"... and they make no dung!"
animals do, including mammoths.
is beleértve, termelnek.
what conservation biologists call
szavai szerint
pandas in China or wherever --
of making life good for that animal
az életét kellemessé változtatjuk,
környezet, ökorendszer megjavul,
of creatures and plants,
of being self-managing,
can back off and say,
the destructive invasives,
invazív fajok kirekesztése,
that you're dreaming of de-extincting
like to move on to
how mammoths might help
hogyan segíthetik elő a mamutok
tropical rainforest,
you've thought about a lot.
sokat töprengtél.
is one of the most awful curses
to climate change.
this graph here, or this map.
that you get from headlines
merített narratívákon kívül
calls "narrative violation."
a narratíva megsértésének hívott.
is master of putting it out there --
mesterien terjesztette –,
civilization-threatening
fenyegető klímaváltozás
of greenhouse gases, especially CO2,
az üvegházhatású gázok túltermelésével,
but it's not the whole story,
than these fragmentary stories.
mint ezek a történetfoszlányok.
plus water via sunshine.
és napsugárzásból keletkeznek.
industrialized greenhouses,
turn that into plant matter.
azt növényi anyaggá alakítják.
with satellites and other things,
over the last 33 years or so,
az utóbbi 33 év adatait összegzi.
leaf action going on.
elsődleges termelésnek hívnak.
what ecologists call "primary production."
erőművek következtében.
goes up with this.
that is sucking it down
and goes right back up,
és visszakerül a levegőbe,
of what you need to bear in mind,
szem előtt kell tartanunk,
and engineering climate
a vele való foglalkozás, a beavatkozás
tweaking around with the system
see it's still getting better,
a még jobb eredmények érdekében,
félfordulattal vissza.
back off half a turn.
hogy zöld és zöld közt különbség van.
"Not all green is created equal."
the magnificence of the rainforest
or grass or something like that.
vagy fűre vagy hasonlóra cseréljük le.
hogy minden növényből egyre több van.
every form of plant is increasing.
left out of this study
in the oceans.
dologgal foglalkoznak.
the most important thing.
that create the atmosphere
James Lovelock has been insisting;
especially of ocean life,
az óceán életéről kiváltképp –
of too much CO2 in the atmosphere,
miatti túl sok légköri CO₂
the ocean doing with that?
the sea level rise,
a tengerszint a legtöbb helyen,
with more global warming.
még inkább fokozódik.
to some of the coral reefs,
a korallzátonyokban
a lot of bleaching from overheating.
in our previous session on the main stage,
előző előadásunkban:
is worth experimenting with enough
in the warming aspect of all of this,
a fölmelegedés idején,
but usable research,
finomhangoljuk a rendszert,
do more than tweak.
ennél többet tehetünk-e?
we're going to talk about
nemrég jelent meg.
was just published by Yuval Harari.
of humans is to become as gods.
evolúciós szakasza az istenné válás.
And you've probably finished the book.
elolvastad a könyvét.
completely remake ourselves
újjáalakítjuk magunkat
brand-new chapter of history.
nagyon radikális fejezetét fogjuk írni.
az embereket provokálni.
likes provoking people.
I'm excited and nervous.
lelkes vagyok és ideges.
is trying hard to lean towards
part of me is saying,
be a little bit careful
isn't it, for TED?
a little bit schizophrenic.
állapot receptje is.
statement that you made
megdöbbentő mondásod
Whole Earth Catalog,
kijelentésed áll:
and might as well get good at it."
és tán még jók is lehetünk benne."
you've upgraded that statement.
is that documentation
from somebody --
it hasn't forgiven me yet!
még nem bocsátott meg nekem!
when somebody quoted it,
felelősséget, mikor valaki idézte,
what you originally wrote
és tán már hozzá is szokunk»."
and might as well get used to it.'"
the stories we tell ourselves
melyeket magunknak mesélünk,
hasonlatosak, s tán jók lehetünk benne",
and might as well get good at it,"
called "Whole Earth Discipline:
egy ökopragmatista kiáltványa címűt,
basically saying that we are as gods
"Istenekhez vagyunk hasonlatosak,
and have to get good at it.
és jónak kell lennünk benne".
the psychological reaction
a geomérnökségről szólsz,
as you talk about geoengineering
is that humans should be gods --
narrative about hubris.
görög értelmezése.
really sure of yourself,
cautionary tale to always have at hand.
amelyet mindig szem előtt kell tartani.
I've kept for myself is:
I am dead wrong about.
hány dologban tévedek baromira?
with scientists these days,
mint szervezett kétkedés.
looks pretty good,
of not only suspicions
nemcsak a kétkedéseinkből,
away from fake news.
of this just for the environment:
hogyan hasznosítható ez a környezetünkre:
is that, whether we like it or not,
tetszik-e nekünk valami vagy sem.
már meghatározó a szerepünk,
of what happens on planets,
doing it intentionally.
a szándékos cselekvést.
getting good at being a god?
or systems we can nudge and play with?
amelyekkel próbálkozhatunk?
to Buckminster Fuller
teljesen hű legyek,
and anthropologist and biologist
antropológus, biológus,
basically look at themselves.
hogyan látják magukat.
you want to always be looking at things.
a dolgokat vizsgálni.
approach to geoengineering
illető megközelítésében az tetszik,
módjára foglalkozik vele.
was talking about earlier --
really incrementally,
see how it responds,
figyeli, hogyan reagál,
that people say, quite rightly,
akik okkal kérdezik:
rendszer működését.
how the climate system works.
ismeretlen rendszer működésébe."
you don't understand."
applies to the human body,
az emberi testre is vonatkozik,
and we're kind of glad that it has."
that is so large and complex
rendszerbe beavatkozni,
an anti-hubristic approach.
and dialogue and all these other things
stb. folytatott vita tárgya,
about earlier with Sebastian [Thrun].
is looking for social license,
társadalmi engedélyt igényel,
that I think is a good one,
problematic, deep issues
problematikus, mély témákba,
paying close attention
különös figyelmet fordítsanak
as it's going forward,
as it's going forward --
which is fantastic --
ez pedig fantasztikus.
that has worked pretty well so far.
and I are optimistic is we read
mert Steven Pinker-féléket olvasunk,
"The Better Angels of Our Nature,"
of: things are capable of getting better,
hogy a dolgok javulhatnak,
that happen and apply those further.
és alkalmazzuk őket.
on that optimistic note,
are willing to challenge yourself
mindig vitatkozol.
uralkodik el rajtad az önhittség,
allowing yourself to be too certain
and inspiring, actually,
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Stewart Brand - Environmentalist, futuristSince the counterculture '60s, Stewart Brand has been creating our internet-worked world. Now, with biotech accelerating four times faster than digital technology, Stewart Brand has a bold new plan ...
Why you should listen
With biotech accelerating four times faster than digital technology, the revival of extinct species is becoming possible. Stewart Brand plans to not only bring species back but restore them to the wild.
Brand is already a legend in the tech industry for things he’s created: the Whole Earth Catalog, The WELL, the Global Business Network, the Long Now Foundation, and the notion that “information wants to be free.” Now Brand, a lifelong environmentalist, wants to re-create -- or “de-extinct” -- a few animals that’ve disappeared from the planet.
Granted, resurrecting the woolly mammoth using ancient DNA may sound like mad science. But Brand’s Revive and Restore project has an entirely rational goal: to learn what causes extinctions so we can protect currently endangered species, preserve genetic and biological diversity, repair depleted ecosystems, and essentially “undo harm that humans have caused in the past.”
Stewart Brand | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.
Why you should listen
Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.
Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.
Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.
Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.
This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.
He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.
In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.
Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com